Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Bobby Martnen/Archive

Suspected sockpuppets



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NB I do not believe this is the earliest account of sockmaster. The Bobby Martnen account started in March 2014 but immediately displays familiarity with RM procedures and the second account Genealogizer here shows knowledge of the Gdansk/Danzig vote in 2005, so clearly there are other accounts before 2014. I think the diffs are overwhelming and have left a message at the new account's Talk page encouraging him to come clean about all accounts (though as there is barely any time gap between these two accounts that would mean pre-2014 accounts). Anyway, diffs: account blocked 23 January 2016 / new account created 22:18, 15 February 2016. "English names" for places in India, Lebanon, Poland and places and people in Ireland Bobby Martnen moves Irish person reverted, then Genealogizer makes exact same move. cut and paste move of Treaty of Krakow to "English name" Cracow vs Genealogizer did the same thing cut and paste moving Kfar Nabrakh in Lebanon to the old name Cafrenbach [diff obscured by admin who fixed it but then warned Genealogizer on Talk page]. Strangely an [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/166.175.191.7 IP made exactly the same cut and paste move of the same article in March 2016. There's more (http://tools.wmflabs.org/sigma/editorinteract.py?users=Genealogizer&users=Bobby+Martnen shows exact same distinctive "English name" edits at Deir al-Qamar, Phnom Penh, etc.) but these should go beyond coincidence. In ictu oculi (talk) 13:50, 29 August 2017 (UTC)

Comments by other users
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 * This is nothing more than a witch hunt against someone you disagree with. These allegations are categorically false. Just because I did my research on WP procedures and past votes doesn't make me a sockpuppet. Genealogizer (talk) 16:22, 29 August 2017 (UTC)
 * let's get this clear, you are denying that you and the earlier account are the same editor? How do you explain uploading the same album cover, moving the same Irish person, making the same edits re Krakow/Cracow, etc? In ictu oculi (talk) 16:57, 29 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Correct, the Irish article belongs at the more common name, as used by reputable music sources, the Free City of Cracow RM was inspired by taking a Euro History class at college, and I'm not the only person on Wikipedia who likes Michael Bolton. Also, the fact that you wikistalked me in an effort to discredit me is rather disconcerting. Genealogizer (talk) 18:30, 29 August 2017 (UTC)
 * I don't think you can help yourself. You went straight from denying that Genealogizer is blocked user Bobby Martnen above to turning "Mumbai" into "Bombay" in the bio of Dinesh D'Souza, repeating an edit done twice by Bobby Martnen 26 July 2015 and 9 January 2015. The older account is you, every new edit you make with Genealogizer is going to tread on the old account's tracks, why deny it? In ictu oculi (talk) 08:09, 30 August 2017 (UTC)


 * It is clear to me Genealogizer has been active on Wikipedia and well-versed in various topics long before this account has been created. Changing accounts, of course, is not a wiki-crime, and while I found his behavior disagreeable, it hasn't merited the level of any official complaint - we just disagree, that's it. Whether he is evading some past ban or not, now this is something for CU to investigate. I am afraid I have no evidence to present either way, and I don't intend to engage in speculation, except direct reviewing admins to certain old bust still AFAIK valid discretionary restrictions which were placed long ago on a number of users who engaged in similar behavior (moving pages, opposing diacritics, starting RM, often with the aim of renaming pages from Polish to German/obsolete English names like Krakow->Cracow, which Genealogizer is fond of as well): Requests_for_arbitration/Eastern_Europe, which may provide a list of names handy for checking against. IF (and I am not saying they are, and the user in question here has denied it) Genealogizer is a veteran of those restrictions, it would go a long way to explain his experience and pattern of edits. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here 07:14, 30 August 2017 (UTC)
 * I haven't tried to move any Polish cities to their German names, and Cracow is not obsolete. Once again, it is still used by several major dictionaries, universities, and maps. Also, just because I have a similar viewpoint as other editors doesn't mean that I am the same person. There are 7+ billion people in this world, some of them are bound to share my viewpoints. Genealogizer (talk) 15:47, 30 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Indeed. As I said, it is for CU to determine if your new account is breaking any evasion rules or not. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here 04:46, 31 August 2017 (UTC)

Clerk, CheckUser, and/or patrolling admin comments

 * . The overlap wrt. pages edited and the details of the edits is quite convincing. In particular, I noticed the edits to User talk:AjaxSmack, "calling his attention" to various naming discussions. Favonian (talk) 17:33, 30 August 2017 (UTC)

15 September 2017
Archive note: this investigation was filed at Sockpuppet investigations/Kauffner Ivanvector (Talk/Edits) 01:23, 30 November 2017 (UTC)

Suspected sockpuppets



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WP:DUCK. On Wikipedia one day and straight to "English" name RM discussion on Cracow/Krakow citing Chinese history (who knew Xian used to be called Sianfu?) then this diff, Vietnamese diacritics RM citing Britannica. There was an SPI only 2 weeks ago so Checkuser might not be stale this time. In ictu oculi (talk) 14:51, 15 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Though strangely the account has just done a couple of things more reminiscent of Sockpuppet investigations/Bobby Martnen. In ictu oculi (talk) 08:49, 17 September 2017 (UTC)
 * I should have paid more attention to the new account's first port of call: namely "English" name RM discussion on Cracow/Krakow mentions of "Leghorn" etc and one of the Bobby Martnen IP 130.71.226.135 edit to Livorno as Leghorn, and the same use of Britannica in an anti-Polish name RM by Genealogizer as Academic Coffee this diff, Vietnamese diacritics RM citing Britannica. Taking the focus of AcademicCoffee on Polish names, and ignoring the single Vietnamese name edit as an outlier (or even deliberate smokescreen?) suggest it is anti-Polish-name activist Sockpuppet investigations/Bobby Martnen aka Genealogizer, and not anti-Vietnamese name activist Kauffner. Also Kauffner when challenged has never to date denied being Kauffner, wheras Genealogizer denied (lied point blank) about being Bobby Martnen quite vehemently, in the face of overwhelming evidence wheras Kauffner, has this strange sense of honour in his playing the sock game, he doesn't demean himself to lie. Never so far anyway, in several dozens of SPIs. Yet Academicoffee71 is denying being a sock. Also the user page for Academicoffee71 "A long time Wikipedia lurker and grad student in history who finally decided to make a page." ... that is reminiscent of the claims of the original Bobby Martnen account, but will have to trawl edits to find it.  see this latest diff and here. Kauffner when challenged just stops, Genealogizer/Bobby Martnen when challenged keeps going, here adding an old German name to a Polish town. Also to be found in Genealogizer/Bobby Martnen histories, and the recent Bobby Martnen IP edits 107.77.209.140 Stop trying to deanglicize the English language. What's next? Are you going to move Germany to Deutschland? We have our own English words and you guys need to respect that. Not my fault your daddy beat you up and then abandoned you. So don't take it out on the English language. But you know what? Screw Wikipedia. I'll be on Snapchat if you need me. Best, Robert D Martnen, PhD . In ictu oculi (talk) 17:21, 19 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Interesting. The sock also has Kauffner's interest in Encyclopedia Britannica as a style authority and in RM. But it's possible it's another editor with similar interests (or deliberately trying to seem like Kauffner)., , others, what do you think?--Cúchullain t/ c 18:04, 19 September 2017 (UTC)
 * I'm leaning more towards Kauffner. The harping on WP:COMMONNAME, the Britannica fetish, plus the time stamps match Kauffner better than Martnen and his sock. Favonian (talk) 18:25, 19 September 2017 (UTC)
 * well I can't disagree because I was the one fooled, but on 15 Sept first reaction hadn't factored 130.71.226.135 into the picture. And the style also, Kauffner would never format without * asterix before his support and fail to link guideline, the two earlier Bobby Martnen accounts also cited Britannica, as a low-MOS on fonts/diacritics and rather conservative source on "English names" it's use isn't limited to Kauffner. In ictu oculi (talk) 18:44, 19 September 2017 (UTC)
 * ,, as further evidence that's it's not Kauffner see very different response from Kauffner/Great scott today compared to Genealogizer/Academicoffee71 (both accounts) when challenged. In fact see all of Academicoffee71's still unblocked contributions over the last three days. In ictu oculi (talk) 07:17, 23 September 2017 (UTC)


 * See relisting below sorry but per  advice "archive on Sockpuppet investigations/Bobby Martnen" note below the last non-stale Bobby Martnen sock was . I am the editor to blame for having carelessly assumed it was Kauffner, but Academicoffee71's last edit creating a BLP stub on a senior Polish Wikipedia editor at Krzysztof Wojciechowski is the sock blowing a trumpet that this is anti-Polish sockmaster Bobby Martnen/Genealogizer. Kauffner, for all the annoyance of his long term puppetry does not go in for personal attacks, nor for targeting Polish editors or Poland articles. (And can someone please block Academicoffee71 before he creates any more Wikipedia editor BLPs?) In ictu oculi (talk) 11:28, 26 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Whether or not this is Kauffner, it's clearly a sock. Determining whose is getting confusing; suspected Kauffner sock Great Scott recently supported an RM proposed by Academicoffee71. It's disruptive whoever it is, but guess we'll wait on the CU re-check.--Cúchullain t/ c 15:46, 26 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Last time I checked, there's nothing wrong with creating an English Wikipedia article for an academic who has an article on the Polish and German Wikipedias, nor is a biography a personal attack. Academicoffee71 (talk) 17:07, 26 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Academicoffee71, so you're here. Firstly you turning up here is another indicator of being Bobby Martnen/Genealogizer (see turning up on SPI in last archive case) not Kauffner (never turned up on any of his SPIs). Second, it's the creepiness of making so many anti-Polish edits and then these IP edits appearing on a Polish editors page that makes creating a bio stub worrying. In ictu oculi (talk) 08:37, 27 September 2017 (UTC)
 * I'm not making any anti-Polish edits, anymore than French people who write "Londres" instead of London are anti-English. I'm simply advocating for the continued use of a perfectly good English word instead of the foreign equivalent. These personal attacks ("anti-Polish", "Sockpuppet", "Creepy") really don't help your cause. Academicoffee71 (talk) 16:40, 27 September 2017 (UTC)

Comments by other users
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 * Obvious WP:DUCK - check for sleeper socks is needed. That was overlooked at the last SPI. Agathoclea (talk) 15:04, 15 September 2017 (UTC)


 * Jumping into a RM related to a discussion where a sock was just banned, an hour after creating an account, is highly telling. Clearly NOT a new user. I don't know whose sock it is, but I am pretty sure it is a sock of someone. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here 09:53, 20 September 2017 (UTC)

Clerk, CheckUser, and/or patrolling admin comments

 * This diff is a dead ringer for Kauffner, especially in light of the other interest in RM. I'd encourage a check for sleeper socks.--Cúchullain t/ c 15:12, 15 September 2017 (UTC)
 * - For sleepers. Thanks, GABgab 15:18, 15 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Nothing sticks out on the range. Courcelles (talk) 20:00, 18 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Note this diff. I'm making the case as checked for workflow purposes.  The case should be archived on the other SPI. Courcelles (talk) 19:56, 19 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Please compare this account to . Thanks, GABgab 02:30, 26 September 2017 (UTC)
 * . There are some proxies involved here so there's a little ambiguity, but I'm not seeing it. Katietalk 21:37, 28 September 2017 (UTC)


 * Please archive this to Sockpuppet investigations/Bobby Martnen. ~ Rob 13 Talk 00:52, 30 November 2017 (UTC)

Suspected sockpuppets



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was mistakenly initially misidentified as a Kauffner sock and entered at Sockpuppet_investigations/Kauffner. Subsequent edits clearly identified the sock as Bobby Martnen/Genealogizer. Usual interest areas - anti-Polish names, historical British colonial names for modern cities and towns, etc. More evidence accumulating over last 30 days of activity for example, if additional examples needed please ping. In ictu oculi (talk) 12:16, 2 November 2017 (UTC)
 * thanks, no problem I'll copy across all the evidence from the misfiled SPI, and add new ones. But it will take time as there's a lot of it. In ictu oculi (talk) 07:39, 3 November 2017 (UTC)
 * I apologize that I haven't actually done this. Been so busy with other things, and also tired and the evidence is so copious. One of the problems is the clearest evidence is actually on the ethnicelebs.com where obsession No.2 on people's ethnicity is most visible in the academiccoffee and Genealogizer accounts. Obsession No.1 on use of "English names" such as Bombay rather than Mumbai is clear enough just from academiccoffee and Genealogizer edits here, no need to link out to difs on ethnicelebs.com. I will try and get to copying across from the other SPI Sockpuppet_investigations/Kauffner all the evidence that academiccoffee and Genealogizer are Bobby Martnen socks. Please ping me / pinch me / bump me if I don't. In ictu oculi (talk) 12:41, 28 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Okay lets start copying it all across:


 * 1) FIRST EDITS WP:DUCK: Academiccoffee71 on Wikipedia first day and straight to "English" name RM discussion on Cracow/Krakow clearly shows it is someone's sock, but whose? Bobby Martnen/Genealogizer have both taken identical positions against "Krakow" and for the old English exonym "Cracow" "English" name RM discussion on Cracow/Krakow mentions of "Leghorn" etc and one of the Bobby Martnen IP 130.71.226.135 edit to Livorno as old English name Leghorn, and the same use of citing Britannica in an anti-Polish name RM by Genealogizer as Academic Coffee
 * 2) USER HOME PAGE: Academicoffee71 "A long time Wikipedia lurker and grad student in history who finally decided to make a page." ... that is reminiscent of the claims of the original Bobby Martnen account, but will have to trawl edits to find it. Bobby Martnen at http://anglophone.wikia.com/wiki/Anglophone_Encyclopedia
 * 3) INSERTING OLD GERMAN NAMES IN TOWNS: Academicoffee71 on Polish town Wejherowo inserts German name "originally Weyersfrey" and Academicoffee71 Gmina Choczewo adds old name "German: Chottschow" and Przasnysz "German Praschnitz"
 * 4) TROLLING POLISH EDITORS: recent Bobby Martnen IP edits 107.77.209.140 abusing WP Poland Project editor: Stop trying to deanglicize the English language. What's next? Are you going to move Germany to Deutschland? We have our own English words and you guys need to respect that. Not my fault your daddy beat you up and then abandoned you. So don't take it out on the English language. But you know what? Screw Wikipedia. I'll be on Snapchat if you need me. Best, Robert D Martnen, PhD compare Academicoffee71 creating BLP stub on a senior Polish Wikipedia editor at Articles for deletion/Krzysztof Wojciechowski.
 * 5) CHINESE PINYIN PLACE NAMES to OLD NAMES Genealogizer moved page Pazhou Pagoda to Whampoa Pagoda over redirect. Genealogizer changes "Nanjing" to "Nanking" 02:06, 28 September 2017‎ Academicoffee71 changes Nanjing to "Nanking now romanized as Nanjing" Academicoffee71 adds to Jiangxi, "Kiangsi per Britannica" Qingdao "Tsingtao"
 * 6) VEHEMENT DENYING BEING A SOCK Genealogizer on Talk:Free City of Krakow. Post below "Also, just because I have a similar viewpoint as other editors doesn't mean that I am the same person." is almost verbatim the same turn of phrase used by the previous sock Genealogizer (talk) 15:47, 30 August 2017 (UTC) dif.
 * 7) COMMON ARTICLES Editor Interaction Analyser results
 * Nanking Massacre	44 days — (timeline)	0	1	1
 * User talk:AjaxSmack	51 days — (timeline)	2	6	1
 * User talk:Andreas Philopater	51 days — (timeline)	0	4	1
 * Kraków	133 days — (timeline)	0	4	9
 * User talk:Piotrus	133 days — (timeline)	0	2	1
 * User talk:Necrothesp	134 days — (timeline)	0	1	1
 * User talk:Kpalion	157 days — (timeline)	0	1	1
 * User talk:Pmanderson	2 years — (timeline)	1	0	1


 * None of that makes me a sock puppet.

I’m not a complete newbie. I’ve read Wikipedia for years, and made efforts to become familiar with Wikipedia procedures and rules before registering my account, because I don’t want to be the obnoxious newbie who needs every rule explained to them. I saw some move discussions that I had an opinion about, so I participated in them. I’m familiar with Leghorn because of World War history, and Britannica is a widely-used, well-respected source. The fact that I used it as a citation proves nothing other than that I am well educated.
 * 1) FIRST EDITS

I just went through every revision of Bobby Martnen’s user page, and found nothing remotely similar to my user page.
 * 1) USER HOME PAGE

Adding relevant information to Wikipedia is now somehow a bad thing? I have an interest in European history, which is not an uncommon thing.
 * 1) INSERTING OLD GERMAN NAMES IN TOWNS

The Bobby Martnen IP posted an insulting and rude message on an editor’s user page. I created a non-insulting, polite article on someone who already had an article on other language’s Wikipedias. I only know who he was because I read some article’s about Poland’s Wikipedia statue. In other words, leaving hostile messages on someone’s talk page isn’t remotely similar to creating an article on a semi-public figure.
 * 1) TROLLING POLISH EDITORS

The only actual articles we’ve both edited are Cracow and Nanking massacre. I only edited those user pages because I was required to notify all editors involved in the Grand Duchy of Cracow move discussion about the move review.
 * 1) COMMON ARTICLES

Pinyin is far inferior to the traditional anglicizations. That said, all I did was make sure that the traditional names were mentioned in appropriate contexts. It’s no difference to inserting a reference to “Constantinople” in an article dealing with Istanbul.
 * 1) CHINESE PINYIN PLACE NAMES to OLD NAMES


 * 1) VEHEMENT DENYING BEING A SOCK First of all, it should be “vehemently”. Secondly, of course I’m defending myself, because I’m not a sock.

And once again, those sentences aren’t “almost verbatim”. Academicoffee71 (talk) 06:00, 5 December 2017 (UTC)


 * The denial of being Bobby Martnen by Genealogizer and Academicoffee71 noted above shares same verbal overlap as edit summaries like:
 * Genealogizer edit summary (Krakow is a misspelling of Kraków. Cracow is the traditional English name)
 * Academicoffee71 edit summary (Kraków and Krakow are spelling variants, "Cracow" is the actual other_name (as it's the traditional English name)
 * If Academicoffee71 isn't the latest sock, then that means Bobby Martnen has suddenly stopped editing, and Academicoffee71 has never edited before, but are both making the same edits and edit summaries on the Kraków article. In ictu oculi (talk) 18:37, 20 December 2017 (UTC)

Comments by other users
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 * As I noted on some previous discussion, I also see significant similarities between the academiccoffee and Genealogizer. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here 05:20, 21 November 2017 (UTC)
 * The fact that I share some similar viewpoints with a banned account doesn't mean that we are the same person. In ictu oculi and Piotrus have some very similar viewpoints as well, but that doesn't mean that they are operated by the same person. I'm not a sock puppet of anyone, nor have I ever edited Wikipedia under another username. I've tried to follow all the rules here and be polite and friendly, but the hostile, suspicious environment here is really making it hard for me to stay. I like Wikipedia, but dealing with all of these false allegations (before this, In ictu oculi tried unsuccessfully to link me to a different banned user) is really stressful and frustrating. Academicoffee71 (talk) 05:20, 3 December 2017 (UTC)
 * The similarities are also (2) lexical, not just (1) overlapping edit duplication between accounts. For example "Also, just because I have a similar viewpoint as other editors doesn't mean that I am the same person." is almost verbatim the same turn of phrase used by the previous sock Genealogizer (talk) 15:47, 30 August 2017 (UTC) dif---before that sock was blocked by . (yes sorry I still haven't copied over all the diffs from the previous mis-templated SPI ) In ictu oculi (talk) 09:20, 3 December 2017 (UTC)
 * No, my comment here isn't almost verbatim to the comment made by Genealogizer that you linked to. My lexical style is not distinctive - it's just the normal way well-educated native English speakers write. Your allegations against me essentially boil down to me sharing a viewpoint you dislike with a banned editor. You tried to link me to another editor with a pro-English viewpoint back in September. When that didn't work, you tried to link me to Bobby Martnen. When this allegation fails to stick, which it will because it is false, are you going to try and claim that I'm the sock puppet of yet another banned editor? Academicoffee71 (talk) 05:31, 4 December 2017 (UTC)
 * This is NOT good.
 * User:Genealogizer: — just because I have a similar viewpoint as other editors doesn't mean that I am the same person.
 * User:Academicoffee71: — I share some similar viewpoints with a banned account doesn't mean that we are the same person.  Poeticbent  talk 06:45, 5 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Those sentences are quite different, even though they express the same sentiment. This entire investigation is nothing more than a witch hunt against me because my opinion on Anglicization and toponyms directly contradicts yours. Academicoffee71 (talk) 02:41, 6 January 2018 (UTC)

Clerk, CheckUser, and/or patrolling admin comments

 * - In order to facilitate and expedite your request, please provide diffs to support your case. Please give two or more diffs meeting the following format:
 * 1) At least one diff is from the sockmaster (or an account already blocked as a confirmed sockpuppet of the sockmaster), showing the behaviour characteristic of the sockmaster.
 * 2) At least one diff per suspected sockpuppet, showing the suspected sockpuppet emulating the behaviour of the sockmaster given in the first diff.
 * 3) In situations where it is not immediately obvious from the diffs what the characteristic behaviour is, a short explanation must be provided. Around one sentence is enough for this. ~ Rob 13 Talk 02:15, 3 November 2017 (UTC)
 * - Could you compare this account to Genealogizer? Both push the same particular POV, see    Sro23 (talk) 02:30, 21 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Those two accounts are . I want to stress this is not due to proxy usage, and nothing should be read into the result. ~ Rob 13 Talk 14:33, 26 November 2017 (UTC)
 * - Given all of the evidence above, the timing of their registration, and their particular focus on page moves, this looks like the same person to me. Please block the new sock indefinitely. Sir Sputnik (talk) 02:55, 11 January 2018 (UTC)
 * ✅ and closing.  Vanjagenije  (talk)  20:36, 11 January 2018 (UTC)