Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/EGMichaels/Archive

Evidence submitted by Gabbe
Evidence can be divided into two types; evidence that the two users are the same person, and evidence that if this is the case, then the two accounts are used in violation of the WP:SOCK policy. I admit the case may not be rock solid, but I believe the above still warrants some form of further investigation as to whether the accounts are operated by the same person. I'm unsure whether CheckUser is appropriate or necessary. If the accounts are used by the same person, I believe this is an example of using multiple accounts in a deceptive manner, which is unacceptable per WP:ILLEGIT. Gabbe (talk) 09:38, 14 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Evidence that the two accounts are used by the same person
 * EGMichaels timezone seems to overlap pretty well with Deadtotruth.
 * The overwhelming majority of edits by both EGMichaels and Deadtotruth has been to the page Genesis creation myth (and its talk page), both starting this trend in late February 2010. Both accounts also showed prominent peaks in their editing in May 2009.
 * Both pretty much stand alone in arguing in favour of the same viewpoints, and do so on the talk page using very similar arguments, with similar language and style (such as often omitting space before ~, saying "Pico" rather than "PiCo"). See for example , especially and.
 * EGMichaels has added several (inadvertent?) explanations of Deadtotruth's rationale such as ("THAT is the reason (I think) that Deadtotruth saw the need ...") and.
 * Evidence that the two accounts are used illegitimately
 * The two accounts are used to imply that they are two different persons. For example: which.
 * Both EGMichaels and Deadtotruth have been reverting changes to Genesis creation myth made by other users, for example:, , . This could possibly be in order to deliberately evade blocks for edit-warring, like , and.

Comments by accused parties
See Defending yourself against claims.


 * What Gabbe appears to have a problem with is the idea of collaborative editing. He could make similar accusations against myself and Alastair Haines, or Carlaude, or DJ Clayworth, or a few other excellent editors I've encountered and support.  For that matter he could make similar accusations against myself and AFA Prof -- since I value his edits highly and will fight to retain them as well.


 * Or, Gabbe could make the same accusation against himself and myself if someone had gone through and vandalised any reffed material he had taken the time to create -- because if that had happened I would have backed him up too.


 * While I DO have a habit of backing up other editors when their referenced material is deleted, fighting to keep other people's referenced material safe from Wiki-delete-happy vandals is not sockpuppetry. It's just good practice.  If editors like Gabbe had their way, most referenced material on this site would have been gutted into oblivion a long time ago.


 * Further, this is just one more nuisance case that has been brought up in a ridiculous content war. Nefariouski attempted to open an ANI on the content dispute and that was bounced back by a responsible admin immediately.  When that didn't work, Ben Tillman opened one up on me personally.  The reason?  Ben Tillman demanded that I comment on the Genesis creation myth page on that article's talk page instead of my own talk page.  When I complied, he slapped me with a nuisance ANI for (you guessed it) commenting on the article talk page!  There's also something on the Reliable sources noticeboard trying to force out Deadtotruth's references.


 * Finally, I was not notified of this by Gabbe (probably because he knows how utterly baseless this is).


 * My request is that someone lecture Gabbe on the virtues of working WITH other editors instead of AGAINST them.


 * Also -- fair notice -- I have used another screen name before (SkyWriter). I did this after consulting with Lil Aquatique (an admin) about what I perceived to be a possible stalker following my edits.  I wanted to use the two screen names on DIFFERENT articles from each other to see if I could either shake the possible stalker or else see that my fears were unsubstantiated.  Turns out the fears were overblown, and although I've basically retired SkyWriter, I do check it occasionally (and there is a notice on that user page that I'm now using EGMichaels).


 * SkyWriter and EGMichaels, however, are not sockpuppets. One clearly points to the other, and I'm quite open about the fact that both of these accounts are the same person, now that my admin sanctioned experiment is done.  At no time am I aware that either of those screennames were in violation of sockpuppet policy.


 * And the Deadtotruth charge is just Gabbe's gaming the system, along with Nefariouski and Ben Tillman -- in a content war against referenced material.


 * If Gabbe, Tillman, Nefariouski, or Pico were to do actual research and ADD material to this site, I'd back them up as well. I'll back up any decent editor who spends time BUILDING an encyclopedia rather than tearing it down.


 * Please do have a talk with Gabbe about constructive editing.


 * PS, I also protest the bad taste this little sidebar was made in. Gabbe knows full well that I left for the hospital with my wife a few days ago.  We had a baby yesterday morning and it's just indecent to waste time wikilawyering against someone when they very clearly do not have the time to waste tracking down secret and unfounded sockpuppet accusations.  It's poor form.  Very poor form indeed.


 * PPS, I have a basinet to build now. Have a nice night.EGMichaels (talk) 02:04, 15 March 2010 (UTC)
 * This is an SPI, not an extension of the content dispute, which is irrelevant here. If Gabbe has legitimate suspicion that you are socking (I don't care), this is the proper avenue. Gabbe is a trustworthy administrator, and while they may be incorrect, I would hardly go so far as to say they're gaming the system. If you're not socking, then you'll be cleared. -- King Öomie  05:13, 15 March 2010 (UTC)


 * King -- of course I'll be cleared... and then yet another Wiki concoction will be invented. I'm sick and tired of this.  An admin.  A REAL ADMIN needs to step in here and stop the games.  Being cleared isn't the issue.  Stopping these incessant games is.EGMichaels (talk) 12:13, 15 March 2010 (UTC)
 * A real administrator IS dealing with the present issue. The content dispute isn't part of it. I have no reason to believe (or assume) that Gabbe is acting out of anything other than genuine suspicion. An admin with a spottier record might raise flags, but Gabbe's is decidedly sans spots. Your assertion is, frankly, unkind. -- King Öomie 13:24, 15 March 2010 (UTC)
 * No, I'll leave this be. Not helpful. -- King Öomie  13:37, 15 March 2010 (UTC)


 * Gabbe is not without spots. Several times on the talk page to the genesis creation myth page I have asked him to stop mass deleting information.Deadtotruth (talk) 00:11, 16 March 2010 (UTC)

I expect a fast checkuser and an even faster apology. This content dispute needs to be put to bed and you need to start working WITH editors instead of playing games. I'm going to go retrieve my new baby now. Good day.EGMichaels (talk) 14:03, 15 March 2010 (UTC)

We aren't sock puppets. However, several of us including Mr. Wales believe in a collaborative effort for properly editing articles.Deadtotruth (talk) 00:04, 16 March 2010 (UTC)


 * BUMP -- can we get the checkuser done now so Gabbe can come up with something else? I'm bored with this latest distraction.EGMichaels (talk) 16:46, 16 March 2010 (UTC)


 * If it helps, this is my IP. I'll look it up in a minute to see where I am... (EGMichaels)24.191.126.244 (talk) 16:49, 16 March 2010 (UTC)


 * Hmm... this says I'm in Selden NY. I don't even KNOW where Selden is...(EGMichaels)24.191.126.244 (talk) 16:51, 16 March 2010 (UTC)


 * Wow -- Selden is about an hour from here. At least it's closer than Atlanta GA (where I suspect Deadtotruth is from an IP that looked like him).  Gabbe, you're clever, but I think I figured out I was myself all on my own.EGMichaels (talk) 16:54, 16 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Actually, this SPI is improperly tagged, so it may not be on the radar. One moment. -- King Öomie  17:01, 16 March 2010 (UTC)


 * Thanks King.EGMichaels (talk) 17:02, 16 March 2010 (UTC)
 * There we go . To be fair, this format is overly complicated, especially when one is used to generating the report from Twinkle. -- King Öomie  17:07, 16 March 2010 (UTC)


 * Coolio. What the heck is twinkle?  I suspect Gabbe is himself.  He might compliment someone who collaborates with him and become suspicious...EGMichaels (talk) 17:09, 16 March 2010 (UTC)
 * WP:TWINKLE -- King Öomie  17:12, 16 March 2010 (UTC)

Comments by other users
A: i noticfied EG about this 6 hours after it was posted, more than sufficent time for Gabbe to notify him.

B: I do not see him listed as an Admin, i could be mistaken here but does it have to say it along with stuff like "User sv | User sv-N | User en | User en-4 | User de | User de-2 | User ar | User ar-1 | Wikipedians with public domain text contributions | Swedish Wikipedians?"

I do admit the evidence is suspicous, but i am not commenting beyond this. Weaponbb7 (talk) 21:02, 15 March 2010 (UTC)


 * No worries. I remember from the other day an IP edit looked suspiciously like a Deadtotruth edit 206.214.148.81.  THAT IP is in Atlanta GA.  I'm in New York.  If my suspicion is correct, then Deadtotruth is a good thousand miles away from me.  Should be pretty easy for a checkuser, so I have no concerns at the speed of this being put to rest.  My concern, however, remains the perpetual gaming going on.  Once THIS is put to rest it will be just another sidebar attack from some other corner.  There really needs to be a responsible REAL admin here who can stop this incessant bad behavior.  Content disputes should be settled by collaboration -- NOT conquest.EGMichaels (talk) 21:16, 15 March 2010 (UTC)


 * Oh and to your "B:" point you can see Gabbe's admin status here Nefariousski (talk) 22:02, 15 March 2010 (UTC)
 * interesting thanx.... Weaponbb7 (talk) 23:59, 15 March 2010 (UTC)

Eh, I'm a little less than thrilled at your assumption that I don't "add" anything to the encyclopedia as a whole and am only focused on "tearing it down". Nefariousski (talk) 21:23, 15 March 2010 (UTC)


 * Apologies, Nef. I may have had you confused there because of the original ANI.  This content escalation has more tentacles than anything I've ever seen here.  I'm sure it's warped all our perceptions of each other, including my own.EGMichaels (talk) 21:26, 15 March 2010 (UTC)


 * No no, it's fine, everyone is entitled to their opinion, I'm just not thrilled to be lumped in with the editors who are involved in the adding / deleting of material battle going on since I've made an effort to not get involved with major edits to the article until some manner of stability has been reached. I'd rather not get dragged into constant edit wars over my own good faith contributions much less those of others.  Nefariousski (talk) 21:59, 15 March 2010 (UTC)


 * You're right. I've never used a strike out before, so I'll have to figure out how to do it...EGMichaels (talk) 22:17, 15 March 2010 (UTC)
 * There's a strikeout button, but I can't remember if that's only in WikiEd. You can do it manually by nesting the text inside .  -- King Öomie  13:20, 16 March 2010 (UTC)


 * Thanks. And thanks for the well wishes on the new baby :-).EGMichaels (talk) 16:47, 16 March 2010 (UTC)

Requested by King Öomie  17:03, 16 March 2010 (UTC), on behalf of Gabbe (I think)
 * CheckUser requests

per the two IPs given: 206.214.148.81 and 24.191.126.244. Given the WHOIS and geolocation information, I guarantee the CheckUser information will come back as completely unrelated from a technical standpoint. –MuZemike 18:49, 16 March 2010 (UTC)