Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/ErwinLindemann/Archive

Suspected sockpuppets

 * ( original case name)




 * Tools: Editor interaction utility • Interaction Timeline • User compare report Auto-generated every hour.

"ErwinLindemann" is a dewiki LTA; Helmut Hoppenstedt was now blocked for harassment. The connection to the listed accounts is admitted at and a dewiki LTA documentation exists at. All of the listed accounts are blocked on the German Wikipedia, as behaviorally identified sockpuppets of the person who is now also blocked here.

Most of the accounts are sleepers without enwiki edits. However, there is one which needs a checkuser confirmation before taking further action: has an interesting edit overlap at Death of Oury Jalloh and Talk:Death of Oury Jalloh, and Helmut Hoppenstedt claims to be them. This is either an attempt to pull ΟΥΤΙΣ into a false sockpuppetry block, or a situation requiring a block of the ΟΥΤΙΣ account as well. They have edited four days ago. ~ ToBeFree (talk) 20:48, 18 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Note: Per ΟΥΤΙΣ's dewiki block log, their indefinite dewiki block is a sockpuppetry block regarding ErwinLindemann / Helmut Hoppenstedt as well, and it was upheld in an unblock discussion and by the rejection of a subsequent dewiki-ArbCom case request. ~ ToBeFree (talk) 20:54, 18 November 2021 (UTC)

Comments by other users
''Accused parties may also comment/discuss in this section below. See Defending yourself against claims.''

Clerk, CheckUser, and/or patrolling admin comments

 * - Primarily for comparison of, as recommended. --Jack Frost (talk) 22:25, 18 November 2021 (UTC)
 * - Katietalk 22:20, 19 November 2021 (UTC)
 * The best I can do between HH and ΟΥΤΙΣ is, but I would tilt that toward the unlikely side. Different UAs but same device, same country but a couple hundred miles apart – you get the idea. They're in an area where I'm pretty confident of the geolocation. The other listed accounts are all on enwiki. Katietalk 22:39, 19 November 2021 (UTC)
 * I'll leave you to make a call on the appropriate outcome for this one given your familiarity with the background. Please let me know if I can be of any further assistance. --Jack Frost (talk) 05:26, 20 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Thank you both very much! This is a tough case. I'm afraid it's going to be "no immediate action" towards ΟΥΤΙΣ, with a strong suspicion remaining. ΟΥΤΙΣ had requested a checkuser to prove their innocence and even offered a video call for identity verification, so if they're a sockpuppet, they're extremely confident in the technical separation between the two accounts. It is probably unsuitable as negative proof. I had hoped for them to have lost their patience in this regard after the dewiki block.
 * There may be other similarities between the accounts, such as a lack of capitalization in some of their edit summaries on dewiki, where a complete lack of capitalization throughout a sentence is less common than here as every noun is capitalized in German. vs. . But as I was only able to find one single diff for the right side of this comparison, that's rather coincidental.
 * The current state of ΟΥΤΙΣ's talk page (permanent link) is an interesting read.
 * The evidence provided at de:WP:SGA, de:WT:SGA and de:WP:SP is sadly partially based on now-deleted off-wiki comments and unspecific "similar behavior" suspicions that I personally can't take into account. The block is partially justified by disruption, not just the sockpuppetry suspicion, as described in the "17:22, 12. Aug. 2021 (CEST)" comment at de:WP:SP. The initial blocking administrator was unsure and in favor of removing the block in doubt ("12:34, 12. Aug. 2021 (CEST)"). The rejection of the de:WP:SGA case contains similar concerns ("23:52, 19. Aug. 2021 (CEST)", first rejection vote).
 * It's a hard decision. We probably need to keep an eye on the situation without blocking right now.
 * Ping:, who speaks German and whose SPI experience I value, for input and – if agreeing – for closure. ~ ToBeFree (talk) 13:29, 20 November 2021 (UTC)
 * All sleepers blocked; I guess the case needs to be moved to "ErwinLindemann" before tagging. ~ ToBeFree (talk) 13:33, 20 November 2021 (UTC)
 * I may have misread Helmut Hoppenstedt's apparent claim to be ΟΥΤΙΣ: The name was removed from the list. I guess Helmut Hoppenstedt has copied the content of their own LTA page and then immediately corrected the list. ~ ToBeFree (talk) 21:34, 20 November 2021 (UTC)
 * I came here following 's request for a second pair of German-speaking eyes. Looking across both wikis, I can see some similarities in edit-summary usage (notably frequent use of parentheses and quotes), but I am still inclined to believe that this isn't the same person, primarily because of significant differences in English proficiency; compare for example. While their command of the language isn't flawless, ΟΥΤΙΣ' English is more idiomatic (see e.g. the edit summary here), while Hoppenstedt has significant difficulty communicating in the language, tends to just translate German expressions word-for-word and uses nonstandard diacritics (see e.g. ). While there are some shared interests (notably the Death of Oury Jalloh), ΟΥΤΙΣ also does not exhibit the same fairly narrow focus on law-related topics as the others. They also have significantly more cross-wiki activity than any of the other accounts I looked at for comparison (all of which focus on dewiki, with some outlier edits on en). It is of course possible that these two users know each other or similar, but I'm not seeing strong evidence of that either (and even if we were absolutely certain that they are in contact with each other, that would not inherently put them in violation of enwiki's meatpuppetry policy). The dewiki evidence in both the block review and the arbcom case request is very light on diffs and seems to boil down to "I and everyone else think that they are being disruptive in a similar way", but I wouldn't call that conclusive.In short: Notwithstanding the dewiki block, I do not believe that there is enough here to overcome the CU result. Moving to ErwinLindemann (the oldest account) and closing without action. No objections to tags if someone thinks it's worth it. --Blablubbs (talk) 12:54, 21 November 2021 (UTC)