Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Grace Saunders/Archive

Evidence submitted by Michaeldsuarez
Grace Saunders is an user known amongst the gaming community (forums) as a sockpuppeteer, but Grace Saunders is also active on wikis, including this one. Until recently, Grace and his sockpuppets haven't been a problem. I started this investigation since Grace has been harassing several users on this wiki and has disrupted the conflict resolution process. Although I've found a lot more IP addresses related to Grace Saunders, I've only listed the ones that edited the Grace Saunders article in order to keep the investigation simple. In should also be noted that Grace Saunders has a history of poking fun at myself, especially on Encyclopedia Dramatica.


 * Patterns


 * Before I continue, I should make note of the type of articles Grace edits, so we can easily find patterns and editing habits. He prefers editing:
 * Music-related articles (eg. Tears for Fears)
 * Wrestling-related articles (eg. Shawn Michaels)
 * Horror-related (movies and video games) articles (eg. Silent Hill)


 * Grace Saunder article


 * Grace's history on Wikipedia goes back to 2005 (although it should noted that Grace has been active on the Internet since 2003). Grace first revisions to the wiki were to the Fluffy article on September 2, 2005, which he edited through 82.41.224.134 and User:Grace_Saunders.


 * On October 8, 2005, 82.41.224.134 returned and created the Grace Saunders article.


 * Grace also added a link to the Grace Saunders article to the Cyber-bullying article. One day later, two or three anonymous trolls attacked the Grace Saunders article with information about Grace. Due to the timing of those events, I believe that Grace made a forum post about how he edited the Wikipedia article.


 * Grace returned on January 2, 2006, as 80.192.83.179, and he re-inserted himself into the Grace Saunders article. Trolls later added more information. As seen here, Grace turned the article into a trolling target and caused disruption to Wikipedia.


 * On October 4, 2006, Grace came back as 82.41.224.66 and removed the trolling comments. On October 12, 2006, Grace created his User:SynchPedro86 account, and edited the Grace Saunders article. On October 31, 2006, he reverted himself as 82.41.49.26. Grace started to edit as 62.30.160.102. On March 1, 2007, this anon removed trolling from the article, and he blanked the entire article the next day with the following text:

"Due to malicious spamming, I can no longer allow this article to remain. The exact same info can be found in the Alone in the Dark 2 section anyway."


 * On March 5, 2007, User:SynchPedro86 left the following message on Talk:Grace Saunders:

"Hi, I made the 'Grace Saunders' article. However idiots keep spamming on it and editing things to insult me, because I use this as a username. Is there any way you can prevent users from vandalising the page?"


 * On October 28, 2007, Grace left the messaging message on Talk:Grace Saunders using his User:45g account:

"Like I said earlier, it's better if the article is gone. All it is is one big bullseye for trouble. All the info you need on the character is already found in the Alone in the Dark (series) tablet. While this is techniclly a VG-related article, people stalk me online everywhere I go because it's my main handle. All it can bring is bad news not only to Wikipedia, but tens of thousands of other forums."


 * It's all pretty redundant from there. For a full picture, just view the page history. As I said before, all the IP addresses I've listed edited the article. Beside the accounts listed above, User:Tearsfromfears, User:Thesaunderschild, and User:Noob999 have edited the article, and I believe that each one is Grace.


 * Other articles


 * I've explained how all the IP addresses, User:SynchPedro86, User:Tearsfromfears, User:Thesaunderschild, User:Noob999, and User:45g are connected to User:Grace Saunders through their activities on the Grace Saunders article, but I've now have to explain why I think that User:Floatstinger and User:TetraJuiz69 are also sockpuppets. "Floatstinger" is the name of an enemy boss Silent Hill, which is a horror game Grace enjoys playing. As I've stated in the "Patterns" section, Grace likes editing horror game and film related articles. As seen by User:Floatstinger's contributions, Floatstinger revised and created several articles related to horror films. Like User:Floatstinger, User:TetraJuiz69 revised horror-related articles. Unfortunately, this account only has two contributions, both of which were to the Subspecies (film series) article. Nevertheless, it should be noted that User:45g has also edited the same article, and TetraJuiz69 is one of Grace's known aliases.


 * Current drama


 * It would take far too long to describe the current situation with Grace Saunders, so I recommend that you read Administrators'_noticeboard/IncidentArchive609 and Wikiquette_alerts and judge for yourselves.


 * Sockpuppetry vs. Right to Vanish


 * Although Grace has a Right to vanish, Grace has clearly abused this right. To be frank, I don't really know Grace's motivation for having so many (I found eight of them) accounts. In the summer of 2007 alone, Grace has changed his username four times, and that's just a single season. Grace didn't change his username in order to avoid harassment, especially since he made it so obvious that he was Grave Saunders by editing the Grace Saunders article and its talk page so frequently, and since he freely claims to be Grace. I don't think Grace had Right to vanish in mind when you changed his username.


 * The Now


 * I've been discussing much of the past, but you probably wish to hear about the now. Fow most of 2010, User:45g has been Grace's primary account, and this is the account the community and I communicate with in order to address our concerns (see "Current drama" section). Recently, Grace temporary switched to an old, inactive account created in 2006 – User:SynchPedro86. Grace used this account in order to secretly complain to a sysop. and start a Help desk thread, despite the fact that the Wikiquette_alerts thread is still live. I believe that Grace used a sockpuppet in order to deliberately exclude the other parties involved in the conflict so that he would have the advantage.


 * Last Straw


 * Grace has recently left two harassing messages to User:Snaisybelle. Grace created an offensive Urban Dictionary entry about User:Snaisybelle, and then he went to Wikipedia in order to brag about it. At this point, I believe that Grace actually wants to be banned.

--Michaeldsuarez (talk) 14:51, 8 May 2010 (UTC)


 * Update 1


 * I'm not sure if anyone is watching the history of this page, but this sockpuppetry case has been blanked twice. It was originally blanked by User:45g, and he received 24 hour block because of it. Later, 174.100.111.165 appeared and blacked the page as well. I don't think that the anon is Grace, since they don't even live in the same country, but I doubt that this is a random act of vandalism.

--Michaeldsuarez (talk) 13:18, 9 May 2010 (UTC)


 * Update 2


 * I think Grace may be using IP socks and proxies. An anon known as 213.165.70.171 has recently left an offensive message on my talk page. This individual claims to be Grace, who is currently blocked. The anon also claims to be using sockpuppets, so I reported both 174.100.111.165 (see first update) and 213.165.70.171 on WikiProject_on_open_proxies. An sysop later confirmed that 213.165.70.171 was indeed an open proxy, and that admin blocked the anon.


 * This could mean that Grace could be using proxies in order to evade his block. As a result, I added both 174.100.111.165 and 213.165.70.171 to the list of suspected sockpuppets.

--Michaeldsuarez (talk) 22:12, 9 May 2010 (UTC)


 * Update 3


 * I've added 174.34.146.27 to the list of suspected sockpuppets due to obvious reasons. 92.235.168.144's recent outburst also confirms my suspicions that Special:Contributions/92.235.168.144 is Grace Saunders. --Michaeldsuarez (talk) 18:29, 10 May 2010 (UTC)

Comments by accused parties
See Defending yourself against claims.

These two jokers are trolls. Michael something or other and Snaisybelle. They both come over here from ED and are bugging the shit out of me over there as well by creating an abusive wiki where they are stealing my photographs and linking to my social network profiles, like Bebo and DeviantART, which they spell as DevianTART. No other mod from Wikipedia has ever started a sock puppet blah blah or whatever debate because nobody else fucking cares. I had never used any of these accounts in years, but they're only just raising the issue now to get me banned. They have been encouraging this behavior through Messenger and through their talk pages. They stalked my IP address and are just acting like I signed up multiple accounts on purposes when I probably just couldn't remember my last log in. This is like the tenth topic they've made about the same bloody thing!45g (talk) 17:53, 8 May 2010 (UTC)


 * I'm not a troll. I simply enjoy writing about memes and drama on ED. In addition, I didn't "come over from ED", I was a Wikipedian before I became an ED user. Also, I didn't have any conflict with you until you decided to drag me into this. I haven't stole any of your photos; I've never uploaded a Grace-Saunders-related onto ED. In addition, you used User:SynchPedro86 as a sockpuppet, and you did that in order to start a secret discussion to ban us behind our backs. I don't use Messenger, but I do use talk pages, since I like keeping things out in the open. Also, this is the third, not the tenth, time I had to start a thread like this, since you won't stop harassing Snaisybelle and me. Comments like this is trolling, Grace. Grace, I must also ask you to stop bringing out sites outside Wikipedia. As seen here, you're falsely accusing me of the actions committed by an impersonator on Google Help. Bringing outside sites into this won't help. --Michaeldsuarez (talk) 18:22, 8 May 2010 (UTC)


 * You added the info yourself, idiot. Also your bastard crew have consistently reverted my edits on ED which is an act of deliberation and is malice. That article better be removed, or it's the English police for you!92.235.168.144 (talk) 15:14, 10 May 2010 (UTC)
 * No opinion on the rest of it, but the above IP has been blocked for 55 hours for the legal threat. TN X Man  15:27, 10 May 2010 (UTC)


 * I'll say it again. I'm contacting the police in London. I will have Number 6 arrange to help me sue Ms. Ob for ED, Wikipedia and the forums crap. All your harassment will be burned onto a disc, starting from when you first communicated with me in January. I'm also looking to sue Wikipedia for the same sort of harassment, since I was unfairly blocked twice within the span of 48 hours. I will also be registering a new account using a proxy to continue editing articles hosted on Wikipedia, in privacy and in confidence. Fuck the lot of you. Oh and go block me cunt, because like I said, I'm one proxy away from getting back on. Again, fuck you. You will not be hearing from me again - you'll hear from my attorney.174.34.146.27 (talk) 15:57, 10 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Sure thing. I've blocked this IP as well. TN X Man  16:35, 10 May 2010 (UTC)


 * No idea what they are on about. I don't even really come here for anything other than editing, like you are fucking supposed to. Duh!45g (talk) 4:46 pm, Today (UTC−4)

Also, can I register again? I'm kind of sick of this bullshit now.45g (talk) 21:01, 10 May 2010 (UTC)
 * There is no "case" from what I can see. Just them being big fucking morons.


 * Onorem, I am glad you have some sense in this matter. I am however very disheartened that I trusted Wikipedia in good faith, and these shenanigans were aloud to continue. Oh I am 45g but I got blocked by the blind guy above, who is clearly on their side.

As you can tell from my history edits - pre-May 2010 of course - I had zero issues or conflicts with anyone. These two other members are from a tasteless website known as Encyclopedia Dramatica. They planned this stunt along with Andy. I do not mean to sound biased, however ED is where they come from to begin with, and on ED, they edit a page about me on there all the time. As a matter of fact, you should check out the HUGE list of accounts I'd registered there in order to delete harassment. There must be at least 200 deactivated accounts on there, all made by me to remove illegal harassment. However, all my edits are then reverted.

ED should be closed. However, that's another story.SynchPedro86 (talk) 21:30, 10 May 2010 (UTC)


 * By the way, I'm not sure if you've noticed, but I had mentioned in a prior response that I intend to use an entirely new handle on Wikipedia. This is because 45g was a mere simplistic name I adopted in order to avoid trouble, in 2007. My oppressors such as Snaisybelle use Google and AOL to stalk me on the internet. I often use the same names everywhere I join, so if I were to be called SynchPedro86 for example, they would find me no problem (and they clearly did on here).

They never knew I was 45g until I gave myself away. I believe these two have deliberately pressed this issue further than it has to be in order to get me intentionally suspended from Wikipedia, when all I've done since the beginning, is edit topics about media, nutrition and professional wrestling.

Since Michael can see my IP, he can follow me around and alert people on ED to my activities. Therefore, I feel I have a right to adopt a new alias and IP address for using on Wikipedia in the future. For this reason alone, I am not at all sad to see my 45g account get banned, blocked, whatever. I seem to have a knack for knowing when things aren't going my way.

I also was unaware that posting illegal threats wasn't allowed, although I was only addressing the allegations. But I'd like to hear your thoughts first of all.SynchPedro86 (talk) 21:40, 10 May 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure that I should bother responding since the SynchPedro account should be blocked for evading 45g's block...but why/how do you think that Michael can see your IP? --Onorem♠Dil 21:44, 10 May 2010 (UTC)

Comments by other users
Hi, I am going to try and give a bit of background here.

Grace Saunders obviously has a penchant for sockpuppetry and impersonation. Naturally, I would never try and give an Encyclopedia Dramatica article as any kind of concrete evidence but aside from its unflattering tone the article, its history and the talkpage give some interesting insights into his attitude and victim mentality.

Peter/Grace has quite the reputation on various online forums, and a quick google of the term Snaisybelle brings up various accounts that he has started in my name, many of which contain my full name and location with incitements to harrass me.

There are also 2 deleted attack pages on Wikipedia about me, both of which were written by the User:45g account. There has also been an exciting development in which Peter/Grace has taken to requesting password resets on my various wiki accounts. Obviously it isn't the end of the world but it is annoying, and obviously all just goes towards demonstrating the impotent rage Peter obviously feels and his unhealthy relationship with the internet, the wiki format in particular.

This issue has seperate components on both Wikipedia and ED, however I feel like what has happened on ED is relevant here due to the involvement of some of the same people. The following are Encyclopedia Dramatica pages which I feel are pertinent to this discussion, for those who have not heard of it I suggest you read the article here before visiting, as some sensibilities may be positively outraged by the mere presence of the ED logo in their browser. As Wikipedia blocks links to Encyclopedia Dramatica, all of the following URLs, written in italics muct simply be copied and pasted into your browser. You are all aware of the dynamic nature of a wiki, but at the time of writing there are no NSFW images in any of the pages, however please note that they all contain swearing:


 * www.encyclopediadramatica.com/Grace_Saunders
 * The Grace Saunders article.
 * Contains many of his sockpuppet accounts and the page history shows the face that he has constantly added personal information (much of which has been removed). The page history also shows many clear sockpuppets.


 * www.encyclopediadramatica.com/Talk:Grace_Saunders
 * The Grace Saunders article talkpage.
 * Thanks to Michaeldsuarez it is now in some semblance of order, and the majority of the comments are from confirmed socks.


 * www.encyclopediadramatica.com/User_talk:Snaisybelle/Archive1
 * My own talk archive.
 * Sections 12, 14, 16, 17, 18, 21, 22, 24, 25, 27, 31, 44, 45, 46, 62, and 70 are all written by confirmed Grace/Peter sockpuppets.


 * www.encyclopediadramatica.com/User_talk:Snaisybelle
 * My current talk.
 * Sections 1.3, 1.5, 1.10, 1.11, 1.19, 1.21, 1.24, are all from confirmed Grace/Peter socks. Also several removed comments can be seen in the page history.


 * www.encyclopediadramatica.com/User_talk:HamboGunPiggy
 * One of the socks that had a fair amount of contact with me.
 * This is more to demonstrate that actually, I was pretty good about this and am not the harrassing force that Peter/Grace would like to make me out to be.

I hope this can give a bit of insight and that this issue can be resolved swiftly and without too much drama, for the sake of all concerned. Snaisybelle (talk) 10:09, 10 May 2010 (UTC)

Comment by Onorem Not sure what the proper format is here...so I'll give this a shot. This case appears to be unnecessary. It's pretty clear that these are socks. It's not clear that they've been used disruptively, outside the request to block users from a sock to avoid giving them a chance to see the complaint and respond. It's not clear why old socks need to be aired at this time. It's not clear why these three users are here. There seems to be 'some' good edits from all of them, but all of them seemed far too focused lately on bringing off-wiki conflict on-wiki. All parties should go there separate ways and ignore each other. If actual on-wiki issues come up, the dispute resolution process is there for a reason. --Onorem♠Dil 21:03, 10 May 2010 (UTC)

Clerk, patrolling admin and checkuser comments
Do NOT arbitrarily remove content from this case page. The IPs are relevant to this case (whether or not related) and should be left in. If there is a valid, private reason they should be removed, then an email should be sent to checkuser-l regarding why this should be done. Regards, Sh i r ik  ( Questions or Comments? ) 20:56, 10 May 2010 (UTC)


 * 45g blocked for disruption on this page. NW ( Talk ) 21:05, 10 May 2010 (UTC)


 * 45g block extended to indefinite for WP:NLT violation. See .  -- Jayron  32  21:28, 10 May 2010 (UTC)


 * Some of these, such as SynchPedro86, are clear ducks; other require a checkuser to be sure. Requesting a sweep. NW ( Talk ) 21:05, 10 May 2010 (UTC)

Refactored comments again. Please be sure to post comments in the appropriate sections above, not at the bottom of this case. -- Sh i r ik ( Questions or Comments? ) 21:46, 10 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Blocked a doublet of socks, and fully protected the SPI page due to excessive disruptive socking. Tim Song (talk) 21:56, 10 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Due to excessive socking, this page has been restricted so that only well-established users can edit it. (This is a form of protection greater than semi-protection but less than full protection so that participants that have been involved thus far can still edit it). -- Sh i r ik ( Questions or Comments? ) 22:01, 10 May 2010 (UTC)

The accounts that have been blocked for editing this page are sockpuppets of Grace Saunders. All accounts that aren't stale are blocked, and I'm not going to say anything about the IPs, so we can close this. --Deskana (talk) 22:21, 10 May 2010 (UTC)

Evidence submitted by Tnxman307
Per this admission, requesting a sleeper check for Grace. The listed account has been blocked. TN X Man 02:04, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

Comments by accused parties
See Defending yourself against claims.

Clerk, patrolling admin and checkuser comments
Requested by TN X Man  02:04, 8 June 2010 (UTC) Tim Song (talk) 04:52, 8 June 2010 (UTC)


 * No sleepers found on SpongeBathWithBlondie's range. Brandon (talk) 06:04, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

No action necessary. Icestorm815 •  Talk  06:06, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

12 February 2011

 * Suspected sockpuppets




 * User compare report Auto-generated every hour.

''Please list evidence below this line. Remember to sign at the end of your section with 4 tilde characters " ~ "''

Grace Saunders' sockpuppetry has been discussed before, but I'm unsure what to do about this latest. When I've left {IPsock|GS} on ip page, ip has rv twice, calling me an idiot. Boleyn (talk) 08:04, 12 February 2011 (UTC)

Comments by other users
''Accused parties may also comment/discuss in this section below. See Defending yourself against claims.''

Clerk, CheckUser, and/or patrolling admin comments

 * IP was blocked by Bsadowski1. —  Hello Annyong  (say whaaat?!) 15:12, 12 February 2011 (UTC)

That wasn't me by the way. I think it was another troll attempt, man.92.235.168.144 (talk) 13:54, 1 September 2011 (UTC)

23 June 2012

 * Suspected sockpuppets




 * User compare report Auto-generated every hour.

Pretty obvious: The "3-FreeBee" account might have been compromised in the past. Although Grace Saunders is requesting the right to vanish, the "3-FreeBee" account predates that request by over a year, so that account was originally created as a blocked user's sockpuppet. --Michaeldsuarez (talk) 15:56, 23 June 2012 (UTC)
 * http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Jayron32&diff=498996148&oldid=497509009
 * http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALog&type=move&page=User_talk%3AFloatstinger
 * http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Floatstinger&diff=498996939&oldid=498996410

There is no point in banning my IP address or profiles, since my IP changes and I just come back again and again and again and again anyway. Get my drift? So there is NO point whatsoever. Plus, I never did anything to get banned in the first place. I'm only banned because certain people made me get banned. The multiple accounts are a result of my temper getting the better of me. None of the accounts were used for abuse, although I did issue legal threats and rightfully so. Every human on Earth reserves the right to defend themselves against false claims, plus I have PDD-NOS which makes it worse on me.78.148.96.51 (talk) 18:03, 23 June 2012 (UTC)

Comments by other users
''Accused parties may also comment/discuss in this section below. See Defending yourself against claims.''

Clerk, CheckUser, and/or patrolling admin comments

 * ✅ - A l is o n  ❤ 21:57, 23 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Blocks and tags already handed out by Alison. Dennis Brown - 2&cent;    &copy;  22:43, 23 June 2012 (UTC)

Suspected sockpuppets



 * User compare report Auto-generated every hour.
 * Editor interaction utility

Filing for the record, ✅ via CheckUser. Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 10:47, 4 January 2018 (UTC)

Comments by other users
''Accused parties may also comment/discuss in this section below. See Defending yourself against claims.''

Clerk, CheckUser, and/or patrolling admin comments

 * Filed for the record. Closing. Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 10:50, 4 January 2018 (UTC)

Suspected sockpuppets



 * User compare report Auto-generated every hour.
 * Editor interaction utility

Filing for the record. Based primarily on behavioral evidence, but CU evidence is also. ~ Rob 13 Talk 19:07, 7 January 2018 (UTC)

Comments by other users
''Accused parties may also comment/discuss in this section below. See Defending yourself against claims.''

Clerk, CheckUser, and/or patrolling admin comments

 * Filed for the record. Closing. ~ Rob 13 Talk 19:07, 7 January 2018 (UTC)

Suspected sockpuppets



 * Tools: Editor interaction utility • Interaction Timeline • User compare report Auto-generated every hour.

This account is a perfect behavioral match for previous incarnations of Grace Saunders, which you can ask me about by email or IRC, but I suspect anyone familiar with this sock will find the same. Grace often has multiple accounts at a time, so requesting checkuser. Someguy1221 (talk) 00:40, 12 April 2018 (UTC)

Comments by other users
''Accused parties may also comment/discuss in this section below. See Defending yourself against claims.''

Clerk, CheckUser, and/or patrolling admin comments

 * - Someguy1221 (talk) 00:40, 12 April 2018 (UTC)
 * ✅ to named sock. Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 09:49, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Blocked and closing. Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 09:50, 13 April 2018 (UTC)