Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Hybernator/Archive

17 March 2011

 * Suspected sockpuppets




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User:Soewinhan has placed a statement on his user and talk page to the effect that he won't be editing in 2011. Since then there has been some odd events.
 * 1) User:Okkar was having a disagreement with User:Hybernator, and suddenly User:Soewinhan popped out of nowhere and started commenting 3RR reports and started creating confusion (User:Okkar words), along with copying sections of articles from one page to another without any appropriate summary.
 * 2) User:Fletch the Mighty reported on User:Okkar talk page - OK, I'm in kind of a weird situation here and didn't know exactly what to do, but I noticed you've been commenting in User:Soewinhan's ANI, and this relates to him. A little bit of backstory: today I've been doing some work with removing/commenting out non-free images outside of article space, per WP:NFCC. Some of the pages I came across was User:Hybernator/test and User:Hybernator/test2, a user I've never before come in contact with. Shortly after (less than an hour later), I got this message on my talk page from Soewinhan, asking me to review Prehistory of Burma. As I've never come in contact with him before and have never edited any articles relating to either Burma or prehistory at all, I was quite confused. At first I thought Soewinhan might have accidentally posted on my talk page instead of someone else's, but as I dug around I happened to come across the ANI... where I discovered mentions of Hybernator. Now you tell me, what are the odds that this is all just a coincidence? I'm not sure if this proves anything (it's certainly not conclusive evidence that Hybernator and Soewinhan are connected) so I didn't want to post it in the ANI, but... I feel like someone involved should know about it. (EDIT: cross-posted to User talk: The Blade of the Northern Lights) Fletch the Mighty
 * 3) There is also a discussion (of sorts) at Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents

If view of the edits that state User:Soewinhan is not editing, my worry is that the account has become compromised and being used by User:Hybernator  Ron h jones (Talk) 20:44, 17 March 2011 (UTC)

Hybernator's response
I can't believe this is happening. I didn't even know about this until User:Soewinhan alerted me on my talk page today.

This is to state categorically that I am not Soewinhan, and he's not me. Nor have I ever created a sockpuppet. Yes, Soewinhan and I have collaborated on a few articles in the past--Sino-Burmese War (1765–1769) is one--but we've also had our share of disagreements. The undiscussed move of Burmese Chinese to Chinese people in Burma is one.

I'm an established longstanding member of Wikipedia. So, it should be easy to check my track record. A number of longtime users--WikiProject Burma (Myanmar)/Members have interacted with me over the years: User:Hintha, User:Angr, User:Kintetsubuffalo, User:Blofeld of SPECTRE, User:Wagaung... Feel free to check with them about my conduct. I've had disagreements over time with other contributors, and if my viewpoint doesn't prevail, it doesn't prevail. It's part of Wiki life. I don't have the time or the desire to be prolonging the arguments--I don't join those silly Burma/Myanmar debates for that reason--because I feel my time is better spent on contributing articles on Burma related articles there are so few contributors. (I contribute in my spare time, which I have very little, after work and family.)

Now about the sockpuppeting charge by Okkar. Yes, I've reverted his edits to May Sweet and The Irrawaddy articles, and provided reasons as to why with proper citations. You can compare the versions, and judge for yourselves. They speak for themselves. I'm actually surprised that he's charged me and Soewinhan with sockpuppeting just because more than one person disagreed with him, and because he couldn't refute on merit. Seems fairly thin-skinned and disingenuous to me. I don't need to create a sockpuppet or solicit allies to refute his simplistic rants.

Now, about Soewinhan's popping up and doing things. It's his right to disagree with Okkar. Apparently, they have disagreed before. Now, I wish Soewinhan would think before he hits that "save page" button. Contacting User:Fletch the Mighty after Fletch wrote on my Talk page created more confusion when there's already enough confusion. And of course, his credibility isn't helped by the non-serious nature of his userpage.

Anyway, I'm sure the admins can check up on the sockpuppet charges. If you have any questions, please write on my Talk page. Hybernator (talk) 00:46, 19 March 2011 (UTC)


 * I would like to categorically object the following statement made by User:Hybernator: "It's his right to disagree with Okkar. Apparently, they have disagreed before.". I stand by my statement which I made in the comment section below that I have never had any dealing with User:Soewinhan until the day i had edit dispute with User:Hybernator.  I have never edited any articles with him nor has he ever edited articles I was editing.  Okkar (talk) 02:57, 19 March 2011 (UTC)


 * Well, then, I'm not sure why he suddenly popped up either. I definitely don't need to pop up as someone to refute your POV edits, which are easily refutable on their own merit. I've already refuted it numerous times on both May Sweet and the Irrawaddy's talk pages. Line by line. I don't need to collude or sockpuppet to refute obvious misrepresentations.


 * The admins, I repeat again that I have nothing to do with Soewinhan. I don't have any control over Soewinhan. He's not a friend. Never had any contact with him outside collaborating on a couple of articles here. If he's watching my talk page, and writing to those that write on my page like Fletch, I can't do anything about it. You can easily check my track record, and with those that interacted with me in the past. Thank you. Hybernator (talk) 13:27, 19 March 2011 (UTC)


 * In that case, would you please retract your disingenuous statement "It's his right to disagree with Okkar. Apparently, they have disagreed before." I never had prior disagreement with User:Soewinhan nor do i even know him existed. Also if you claim not to have any contact with User:Soewinhan outside of Wikipedia, how can you make a claim that "Apparently, they have disagreed before"?  Where in Wikipedia did you discuss this fact with User:Soewinhan?  Your claims themselves are already given away your connection with User:Soewinhan.  Nevertheless, would you retract your statement and admit that you may have exaggerated the facts given the above explanation you have already made?


 * Another interesting development is that, when the clerk endorsed CheckUser, User:Soewinhan put up a message on his talk page that he has now retired and will not be coming back. Is this just another extremely odd coincident like accidentally sending message to Fletch? Okkar (talk) 13:39, 19 March 2011 (UTC)


 * Yes, I freely retract the statement "Apparently, they have disagreed before.", if it's not true. I've collaborated with Soewinhan on Sino-Burmese War and have rewritten some of the articles he started/contributed: Battle of Irrawaddy (1768) which should be Battle of Goteik Gorge, Balamindin, Hsinbyushin. All of you can check the edit histories there. I've also had disagreements with him--the latest on Burmese Chinese and a previous one on Mon kingdoms. Check the edit histories again. But I don't see anything wrong with having disagreements. My point didn't prevail with Burmese Chinese being moved without discussion by him. But it's part of Wiki life. To his credit, he didn't complain when I reinserted the original text in Mon kingdoms with a proper discussion and explanation. I didn't accuse him of political motivations or being a sockpuppet, nor did he. I've never understood why his Userpage seems so jokey--about his retiring and won't be writing until 2012 and such. Doesn't help his credibility at all especially when he's had good content to contribute. Anyway, I'm comfortable with the content I've added to the Irrawaddy and May Sweet will prove NPOV to most people. Hybernator (talk) 14:11, 19 March 2011 (UTC)

Comments by other users
''Accused parties may also comment/discuss in this section below. See Defending yourself against claims.''

I have never come across the User:Soewinhan until my edit dispute started with User:Hybernator on May Sweet. I have never edited any articles which User:Soewinhan was editing before. My initial suspicion was the edits on 3RR report against me, where both user edited the same report as though they were one person, both citing same arguments on POV/COI issues. Further conversations I had with them on the talk pages of May Sweet, The_Irrawaddy and Myanmar Armed Forces lead me to suspect even more that both User:Hybernator and User:Soewinhan are either the same person or working together. This suspicion was further enhanced by the fact that User:Soewinhan stated on his own talk page that he would not be able to edit in 2011 until 2012, and the notice from User:Fletch the Mighty about his suspicious encounter with User:Soewinhan. Okkar (talk) 02:49, 18 March 2011 (UTC)

My first interaction with Soewinhan and Hybernator was today, so I can't say this out of long experience, but I'd like to confirm the observations I made above (mentioned to both Okkar and The Blade of the Northern Lights). If Hybernator and Soewinhan are not the same person, I find it an extremely odd coincidence indeed that I would come in contact with both of them in the same day and then find out that they are suspected to be the same person. Fletch the Mighty (talk) 02:56, 18 March 2011 (UTC)

(Regarding my notice) I also placed several retired tags at my talkpage. But then I failed to leave and deleted these tags. But now, I can't remove the current notice because of this case. For the copy and paste case, I publicly thanked user Ronhjones for his explanations. What can I do further since edit summaries cannot be edited? At that time, I had not read Copying within Wikipedia article and believed that the text is registered under CC-0. Soewinhan (talk) 10:35, 18 March 2011 (UTC)

Also, someone please notify User:Hybernator for that. I think it is not good to discuss this case without Hybernator since he/she has a right to defense. Soewinhan (talk) 05:15, 18 March 2011 (UTC)
 * 1) This is not coincidence. I have a dispute with user Okkar because he/she removed my edits at Myanmar Armed Forces. When I checked his/her contributions, he/she also attempted to defame or edited a version that might defame The Irrawaddy at May Sweet article. Since I have seen a dispute between two editors, I tried to stand from the right side.  Soewinhan (talk) 04:55, 18 March 2011 (UTC)
 * 2) I saw user:Fletch the Mighty comment at Hybernator talkpage and accidentally clicked on Fletch the Mighty talkpage link instead. That's why I wrongly asked Fletch the Mighty to review Prehistory of Burma article instead of Hybernator. You can check Hybernator's several contributions of historical articles.
 * 3) Why no one doubts that user:Hybernator never appears in discussion with Okkar and me alone? For example, ANI notice and Myanmar Armed Forces talk page. Because, he never checks others' contribution history.
 * 4) What I want to say to all those involved is, "please don't suspect others without real evidences" At least, should check the contribution history properly. Soewinhan (talk) 14:48, 18 March 2011 (UTC)

If anyone is still in doubts, you can email me so that you can verify my account was not stolen by Hybernator. By the way, my email was authenticated on 14 November 2009 at 00:39. Special:EmailUser/Soewinhan.Soewinhan (talk) 05:37, 18 March 2011 (UTC)


 * Notice about Okkar: see his talkpage, with a long history of incivility, accusing others of vandalism, a user with at least five confirmed socks or at least meats by the admin conclusion. I regret that no one has reported him to ANI. Soewinhan (talk) 06:48, 18 March 2011 (UTC)


 * The above claim made by Soewinhan regarding so called five confirmed socks, please see the final conclusion reached by the admin - the decision was not as Soewinhan made out to be, therefore I'm not going to protest my innocent here again as it has already been proven.  As usual  Soewinhan just try to create confusion as he did on various other ANI and 3RR complaints. Okkar (talk) 08:48, 18 March 2011 (UTC)


 * I don't want to fight with you here. Anyone who reads your case or check User:Gadone will get the correct conclusion by the admin. Soewinhan (talk) 08:58, 18 March 2011 (UTC)

Clerk, CheckUser, and/or patrolling admin comments

 * - This speaks on it's own. Added two other accounts, which are stale, because of this edit. Also please remember to all users on this case to keep it civil please. -- DQ  (t)   (e)  01:44, 19 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Hybernator and Soewinhan are ❌. The other two are, as mentioned, stale. - Mailer Diablo 04:15, 21 March 2011 (UTC)