Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/JamesOredan/Archive

Suspected sockpuppets



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EddTey is very likely a sockpuppet of JamesOredan. They speak the same way and are working together to disrupt a page (empire on which the sun never sets and see talk: the empire on which the sun never sets) to push some sort of a political agenda (historical revisionism and anachronism). I require an investigation to get rid of these serious doubts.Barjimoa (talk) 17:46, 24 February 2019 (UTC)

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 * - Endorsed for confirmation. Thanks, GABgab 18:08, 24 February 2019 (UTC)
 * ✅. I've blocked the master for two weeks and blocked/tagged the puppet. Closing.--Bbb23 (talk) 20:51, 24 February 2019 (UTC)
 * Wow, fantastic efficiency! Thanks to both Bbb23 and GAB. Barjimoa (talk) 21:02, 24 February 2019 (UTC)

Suspected sockpuppets



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IPs and recently created account, repeating the edits of recently blocked account:
 * Master: sock1:
 * Master: ip2 (stale):  sock1:  - see also previous logged-out editing and edit-warring in this article.
 * Master: ip1 (latest):
 * sock1 shows up in talk page discussion in support of then-blocked master and sock EddTey:
 * Various other examples...
 * -- IamNotU (talk) 17:31, 20 March 2019 (UTC)

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Cabayi (talk) 20:08, 20 March 2019 (UTC)
 * - Please indef Blade. Cabayi (talk) 20:09, 20 March 2019 (UTC)
 * . Sir Sputnik (talk) 03:40, 21 March 2019 (UTC)

Suspected sockpuppets



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IPs and recently created account, repeating the edits of master and recently blocked sock account. Previous sock was blocked on 21 March, they made some edits logged out on 22 March then a few minutes later created and switched to the new sock account. Since then they have continued with long-term edit wars of the master and other socks in various articles and talk pages.
 * Blade and the rest:, NothingHam Bread: , both repetitions of many previous edits for the past year or more.
 * NothingHam Bread continuing edit warring of previous socks in another article, (e.g. ), basically the same edit as above:
 * ip3: Makes a talk page comment complaining about reverts of previous sock edits:, then NothingHam Bread edits and re-signs the comment:.
 * Blade and the rest:, ip1: , ip2:.
 * ip4: reinstates a reverted edit of Blade and the rest: . IamNotU (talk) 14:13, 8 April 2019 (UTC)

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 * The user account is obvious, . A few edits weren't reverted yet, but they're minor and I don't know enough of the subject matter to say that they should be reverted. The IP addresses are all dormant for 2+ weeks. Leaving open for clerk/CU decision on sleeper check or IP rangeblock. ST47 (talk) 15:14, 8 April 2019 (UTC)


 * There's no history of sleeper use here, so a check is not necessary. Sir Sputnik (talk) 15:37, 8 April 2019 (UTC)

Suspected sockpuppets



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User:JamesOredan was blocked on March 17. His last sock puppet (User:NothingHam Bread) was blocked on April 8. User: Liberty Wealth came into existence on April 13.

Liberty Wealth undertook pretty much the same edits as JamesOredan, with same language (e.g. Al-Andalus replacing "Muslim rule" in Spain with "presence" or "occupation", etc.) Since the terms have misleading insinuations in English, I thought it was a matter of his not being a native-speaker, but after discussing on his talk page, evidently he has an agenda. (See: User talk:Liberty Wealth for our interchange.)


 * Here's JamesOredan's's edit from February 7:
 * Here's Liberty Wealth's edit April 25:.

Given that JamesOredan has abused sockpuppets repeatedly before, I thought I'd confirm this is just another sockpuppet before wasting my time further.

Thank you. Walrasiad (talk) 00:55, 27 April 2019 (UTC) Walrasiad (talk) 00:55, 27 April 2019 (UTC)

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 * Obvious sock, Please indef it. &#8208;&#8208;1997kB (talk) 16:04, 29 April 2019 (UTC)
 * Blocked indefinitely. Still might be worth running by a checkuser as they may find other linked accounts. &mdash; Martin (MSGJ · talk) 20:41, 29 April 2019 (UTC)
 * Well there's no history of sleepers, so I don't think CU check will be worth here. Tagged and Closing.. &#8208;&#8208;1997kB (talk) 02:19, 4 May 2019 (UTC)

Suspected sockpuppets



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IPs so far in the range Special:Contributions/2A02:2E02:D98:1300::/64. Same geolocation and network as many previous obvious IP socks in Special:Contributions/2A02:2E02:D80::/44. General themes of "everything is Spanish" and "Spaniards are not African, Muslim, or Portuguese".


 * 2a02:2e02:d98:1300:813:b576:1de6:56e3
 * Editing the lead sentence of Charles V, Holy Roman Emperor, to say that it is historiographically correct to call him King of (a unified and very important) Spain:, and also that the Conquistadores should be described as Spanish. Also here: . Continues long history of JamesOredan edit-warring over the historiographic correctness of "King of Spain" and "one single Spanish Empire" in the lead sentence: , , , etc., and other parts of the same article: , etc.
 * Changing Conquistador to say that they should be described as primarily Spanish, and Portuguese not so much:, with edit summary "The term Conquistador is used mainly to refer to the Castilian soldiers in the conquests of the Aztec and Inca Empire. Its use to refer to the colonization of Brazil is much more limited." Repeats a change by JamesOredan 18:19, 14 February 2019‎, with edit summary "Conquistador is a term primarily used for soldiers of the Spanish Conquest. Although some authors extend the meaning to a greater extent, referring to the Iberian conquerors of the sixteenth century in general." The original edit is redacted, but you can see the before-and-after: Special:Diff/883312010/883833900.
 * 2a02:2e02:d98:1300:1c46:89fb:102b:4b92
 * In Liberation of Paris, on 11 April, adds Spanish flag icon, and name of the leader of "La Nueve": . The following edits 13 April are by confirmed sock Liberty Wealth, adding Spanish flag icon and links to "La Nueve": Special:Diff/892035696/892281939.

Note that the one other IP in the range, 2a02:2e02:d98:1300:7416:e7ed:69fa:6cd1, made an edit downplaying Muslim historical/genetic influence in Iberia:. This is a common theme of JamesOredan, for example in African admixture in Europe, but I'm not sure that it's conclusive. IamNotU (talk) 12:49, 29 May 2019 (UTC)

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Clerk, CheckUser, and/or patrolling admin comments

 * IPs now range-blocked. Closing. Bbb23 (talk) 13:35, 30 May 2019 (UTC)

Suspected sockpuppets



 * Tools: Editor interaction utility • Interaction Timeline • User compare report Auto-generated every hour.

New but obviously-experienced user made a dozen rapid pointless edits, then followed in the footsteps of previous socks and IPs. There are numerous similarities in articles, language, and habits, including:
 * Continuing a long-term edit war about Francis Xavier's nationality:
 * Jacob34T:, and talk page comment:
 * JamesOredan:
 * Blade and the rest: ,
 * IPs: ,
 * Repeating a previous sock's unsourced claim that Spaniards are largely Celtic, in another article:
 * Jacob34T:
 * Blade and the rest:
 * Editing the so-called "results box" in English Armada:
 * Jacob34T:
 * JamesOredan:, he also discloses that he edited from this IP, with the same network and geolocation as all the other reported IPs.
 * Removing the Iran section header from Parliament:
 * Jacob34T: ,
 * Blade and the rest:
 * Stating that African genetic influence is mainly in Portugal (i.e., southwestern Iberia), not Spain:
 * Jacob34T:
 * See the very long edit war on the issue by JamesOredan, Blade and the rest, and various IPs, in African admixture in Europe, eg.:, , , , etc.
 * There are several other tip-offs that I won't reveal here, I can send email if necessary.

-- IamNotU (talk) 19:12, 20 August 2019 (UTC)


 * Update, a "smoking gun": repeating the same edit, with the same language in the edit summary, in White people, where JamesOredan also made several edits:
 * Jacob34T: "Added Germany, and ordered with reference to the lowest estimate."
 * Blade and the rest: "Added Germany." and  "Organized according to the low estimate."

--IamNotU (talk) 13:40, 24 August 2019 (UTC)

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✅

. — Berean Hunter   (talk)  12:30, 25 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Close per the above. The SandDoctor  Talk 19:17, 25 August 2019 (UTC)

Suspected sockpuppets



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This and a dozen or so other IPs in Special:Contributions/46.222.0.0/16. Similar articles, interests, and language, and repeating old edits:
 * 46.222.225.201 (today)
 * Reinstated the last edit of the previous sock account Jacob34T in African admixture in Europe, a favorite article with years of sockpuppetry and edit-warring:, . Also several other similar edits there.
 * Previously-blocked broadband IPs on Orange Espana geolocate to Albacete. First article edited by this Xfera Moviles wireless IP was Albacete. It downplayed Arab influence on Spain, a common theme.
 * 46.222.172.162 - Repeated Jacob34T's removal of the word "legally" in Italians: ,
 * 46.222.210.87 - Continuing an edit war by Jacob34T:, ,
 * 46.222.35.150 - Continuing the same edit war:.

See also older IPs 46.222.223.142, 46.222.71.97, 46.222.202.7, 46.222.202.7, 46.222.202.7.

--IamNotU (talk) 20:23, 16 September 2019 (UTC) IamNotU (talk) 20:23, 16 September 2019 (UTC)

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Clerk, CheckUser, and/or patrolling admin comments

 * The IP's are all inactive. A rangeblock isn't feasible here. Sir Sputnik (talk) 01:02, 20 September 2019 (UTC)

Suspected sockpuppets



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Pro forma: already CU-confirmed. If any CU would care to confirm the confirmation, that'd be great; I don't think it's necessary, but User:SmithGraves asked for a proper "investigation" in an unblock request, so we might as well waste some more time on that person. Drmies (talk) 17:28, 13 November 2019 (UTC)

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Fyi, complaining loudly about unfair accusations and lack of proof of sockpuppetry is typical of this user, see their final edit as "Blade and the rest": ... I guess they qualify for a WP:THREESTRIKES ban now? --IamNotU (talk) 02:36, 14 November 2019 (UTC)

Clerk, CheckUser, and/or patrolling admin comments
There was no need to request confirmation of your confirmation just because a sock bitches about "no investigation". However, I've done so and tagged both accounts. I've also revoked SmithGraves's TPA. Please globally lock the two accounts.--Bbb23 (talk) 19:45, 13 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Thanks . (Wow, what a mean sock!) Drmies (talk) 21:42, 13 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Done with the locks. -- Ajraddatz (talk) 19:25, 15 November 2019 (UTC)

Suspected sockpuppets



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Same network and geolocation of previous IPs, e.g. Special:Contributions/2A02:2E02:D98:1300::/64. Repeating edits of previous sock account SmithGraves:, IamNotU (talk) 03:39, 3 December 2019 (UTC)

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Clerk, CheckUser, and/or patrolling admin comments

 * The IP is part of a range that is now blocked. Mz7 (talk) 01:29, 4 December 2019 (UTC)

Suspected sockpuppets



 * Tools: Editor interaction utility • Interaction Timeline • User compare report Auto-generated every hour.

NormanGear arrived a few weeks after the last sock and IP ranges were blocked. They have the same basic agenda as the master and previous socks, i.e. tendentious edits promoting Spain and its place in history, and particularly emphasizing the "whiteness" of Spanish people and the view that genetic influence of North Africans/Moors/Jews in the Iberian Peninsula is concentrated in the Portuguese, not the Spanish. They have also used a number of idiosyncratic phrases in edit summaries etc. shared with other socks. They are currently on a three-month topic ban from the Spaniards and Portuguese people articles for edit-warring over these subjects, mainly with one other poorly-behaved user: AN3 report (also: ANI report 1, ANI report 2, ANI report 3, first AN3 report). They seem to have avoided their old stomping ground Genetic history of the Iberian Peninsula, maybe because they know it's on my watchlist...

They self-disclosed here that they edited from 84.78.247.214, and were obiously also on 46.222.138.139, compare:, , as well as e.g. - there have previously been numerous obvious socks in the 46.222.0.0/16 range, see this SPI report and the next edit: , continuing sock Jacob34T's edit war: , ,.

Magellan:
 * 46.222.223.142 and sock Jacob34T editing (and edit-warring) about Magellan:, , , etc. - see other edits around the same date - but they don't get very far.
 * NormanGear returns months later to try again:.

Spain was definitely the first "global empire":
 * NormanGear:, ,
 * SmithGraves:
 * Jacob34T:
 * JamesOredan:, , , , etc.

Examples of downplaying African etc. genetic influence on Spanish people (there are many more):
 * NormanGear:, ,
 * Jacob34T:
 * SmithGraves: ,
 * JamesOredan:

Boosting African etc. genetic influences on Portuguese people, again there are many more:
 * NormanGear/84.78.247.214: (compare also this edit summary from blocked IP sock: );
 * Blade and the rest:

Finally, complaining about being accused of sock puppetry "without proof":, , (see also ), User talk:SmithGraves

Since they already have three CU-confirmed socks, can they be tagged as banned under WP:THREESTRIKES? IamNotU (talk) 06:52, 8 February 2020 (UTC)


 * thanks! Nice to feel appreciated :) Wish I'd seen it a little sooner and spared people the tedious circus at ANI... --IamNotU (talk) 16:39, 8 February 2020 (UTC)

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Clerk, CheckUser, and/or patrolling admin comments
✅, blocked and tagged. Please globally lock the account.--Bbb23 (talk) 14:53, 8 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Despite my antipathy for THREESTRIKES, I agree that it is appropriate and have tagged the master's userpage accordingly. I also wanted to thank you for spotting this and for your excellent evidentiary presentation.--Bbb23 (talk) 15:00, 8 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Hi, I resigned as a steward a week or so ago. After six years it's time for other things. You can try pinging -revi instead :-) -- Ajraddatz (talk) 17:21, 8 February 2020 (UTC)
 * No one tells me anything. Your resignation is a great loss to the steward corps. As usual, I'll take your advice: ?--Bbb23 (talk) 19:01, 8 February 2020 (UTC)
 * &mdash; regards, Revi 19:05, 8 February 2020 (UTC)
 * And yes, loss of Ajr is a great loss of our wisdom. &mdash; regards, Revi 19:06, 8 February 2020 (UTC)


 * Thanks, Revi. Closing. Bbb23 (talk) 00:08, 9 February 2020 (UTC)

Suspected sockpuppets



 * Tools: Editor interaction utility • Interaction Timeline • User compare report Auto-generated every hour.

The usual scenario, waiting a few weeks since the last block, then at it again. The RetinB account was created 8 March, today made ten random edits, then jumped directly into a couple of JamesOredan and the rest's regular topics. A couple of hours after they finished in African admixture in Europe, ip1 (wireless IPV4 46.222.1.142) showed up and continued in the same vein. There have been numerous other sock IPs in the 46.222.* range, same network and geolocation, see previous reports.

ip2 (broadband IPV6 2A02:2E02:D91:7000::/64) started editing immediately after the previous three-month block of 2A02:2E02:D90::/44 expired. It has the same network and geolocation as the previous socks in that range. Typical articles, edits, and edit summaries, e.g.:, ,. See also JamesOredan clearly editing logged out from adjacent range 2A02:2E02:D80::/44:, , and all the other typical edits in that range.

Examples:

Spain was definitely the first global empire, not Portugal, because this one book used the phrase:
 * RetinB:
 * NormanGear:
 * SmithGraves:
 * JamesOredan:
 * And others, see previous report.

Spaniards are definitely white people, with no significant African or Arab DNA, unlike those Portuguese:
 * RetinB: (I checked the source, and the original percentages were correct) and their other edits in African admixture in Europe and Genetic history of the Iberian Peninsula
 * ip1: ,
 * ip2: (see the edit summary)
 * Master & older socks: hundreds of similar edits and edit-warring in African admixture in Europe and Genetic history of the Iberian Peninsula over the past several years.

Either that map goes or I do!: There's more, if necessary... -- IamNotU (talk) 04:24, 22 March 2020 (UTC)
 * RetinB:
 * ip1:
 * Old 46.* Yoigo socks: ,
 * Jacob34T: ,

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Clerk, CheckUser, and/or patrolling admin comments

 * Blocked the named account indefinitely and the IPs for appropriate lengths of time. Favonian (talk) 19:38, 22 March 2020 (UTC)

Suspected sockpuppets



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CU result is and there is a similar interest (continuing the edit warring) at. Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 12:08, 16 May 2020 (UTC)

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Clerk, CheckUser, and/or patrolling admin comments
and closing. Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 12:08, 16 May 2020 (UTC)

Suspected sockpuppets



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What seems like a WP:SPA who, just like did before, started out by making some edits to unprotected pages by mostly just adding links  and then taking a break (presumably to get enough edits to be autoconfirmed and then waiting for enough to pass for the same) before engaging in Spanish nationalist editing. In this case, there are a couple of of similarities with previous accounts: In conclusion, it looks like a WP:DUCK to me. TompaDompa (talk) 14:38, 27 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Interest in Spanish's status as a world language, especially compared to French, like  (too many virtually identical edits to the article to list all of them here)  and.
 * Using (almost) the exact same phrasing of Under Philip II, Spain, rather than the Habsburg empire, was identified as the most powerful nation in the world, easily eclipsing France and England. Furthermore, despite attacks from [other/Northern] European states, Spain retained its position of dominance with apparent ease. at Spanish Empire as  did before.
 * Downplaying the influence of Arabic on the Spanish language and instead emphasizing influences from other languages such as Basque, much like.
 * Using the same phrasing of one of the most powerful empires of the Early Modern period at Spanish Empire as.
 * Editing List of largest empires to place the Spanish empire above the Qing dynasty as the fourth largest empire in history like.

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Based on my research for previous reports, and various indications that I won't describe publicly, I'd say that this is undoubtedly JamesOredan. --IamNotU (talk) 16:10, 27 July 2020 (UTC)

Clerk, CheckUser, and/or patrolling admin comments

 * Based on the above evidence, especially the overlap with SmithGraves at Spanish Empire, I'm confident enough to block on behavior., global lock request filed as well. GeneralNotability (talk) 17:19, 27 July 2020 (UTC)

Suspected sockpuppets



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There have been numerous previous socks in the 46.222.* range, see e.g. and older SPI reports. Looks like they usually only last a day or two, but anyway...

Carrying on the same years-long edit war in African admixture in Europe:, compare with sock RetinB on 22 March: and various others, and obvious sock Special:Contributions/46.222.1.142 editing in the same place on 21 March.

Other activity is disruption and edit-warring in Italians, about genetics and culture, another of his favorite articles; see edits of socks, , etc.

PS, it looks like all these stale IPs are obviously him too: 46.222.52.145, 46.222.215.189, 46.222.232.152, 46.222.39.22, 46.222.110.192, 46.222.19.184, 46.222.1.142, 46.222.226.29, 46.222.7.243, 46.222.33.249, 46.222.61.137, 46.222.205.130. IamNotU (talk) 23:10, 10 August 2020 (UTC)

I went ahead and reverted the edits as obvious block evasion. There haven't been any more edits from that IP in the last couple of days, so you can probably close this. --IamNotU (talk) 17:19, 13 August 2020 (UTC)

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Clerk, CheckUser, and/or patrolling admin comments

 * Closing with no action taken, but if the IP starts up again, ping me and I'll see if there's some kind of range block that makes sense. -- RoySmith (talk) 02:15, 19 August 2020 (UTC)

Suspected sockpuppets



 * Tools: Editor interaction utility • Interaction Timeline • User compare report Auto-generated every hour.

Typical patterns for this user: a couple of weeks after the last sock (this time ) is blocked, a new user shows up, makes 10 innocuous edits, waits a few days for autoconfirmation, then dives into the same edit warring:

FornesNF, restoring Spanish as a "world language" along with English and French: FornesNF, after being reverted, repeats the same two edits: Circadue, also the same two edits, and the first edits they made after getting autoconfirmed. Edit summary shows knowledge of the article's history and talk page disputes that FornesNF was also involved in: Similar older edit-warring by JamesOredan, moving Spanish above French:
 * Reverted to previous status. Spanish is often considered a global language
 * 
 * RV, in the absence of finding consensus
 * 
 * In the article, the Spanish language has always been alongside French and English as the main global languages. Returned to its original position waiting for the Talk threads to be resolved.
 * 
 * Recovered the previous status due to the validity of official sources.
 * I have not used Wikipedia articles as sources. I have used official sources of the Spanish State as a source. Specifically, the Cervantes Institute, which is widely used and obviously accepted by Wikipedia. Also in this article, French organizations of the French language have been used as sources. Stop distorting, accusing and distorting. Discuss in Talk by contributing official sources, please.
 * Apparently he feels somewhat strongly about it. He made the same edit (and only this edit) a total of twenty-three times:, , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , ,.

As usual there are some other indicators that I won't reveal right now, let me know if more evidence is required. -- IamNotU (talk) 00:43, 26 August 2020 (UTC)

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 * Based on my familiarity with this case from compiling evidence for the report I made a month ago (Sockpuppet investigations/JamesOredan/Archive), I say . TompaDompa (talk) 01:14, 26 August 2020 (UTC)

Clerk, CheckUser, and/or patrolling admin comments

 * - sure looks like the same person to me. Requesting CU to verify against the archive (I believe FornesNF is the only non-stale sock) and to check for sleepers since they're clearly willing to work around autoconfirmed. The target page should also be bumped to EC, I'll do that if CU comes back positive). GeneralNotability (talk) 15:07, 26 August 2020 (UTC)
 * - Mz7 (talk) 20:27, 26 August 2020 (UTC)
 * The following accounts are ✅ to Circadue:
 * These accounts are to FornesNF. Mz7 (talk) 20:34, 26 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Well, they're socking, and based on behavior I feel reasonably confident that they're socks of JamesOredan. and I've ECP'd World languages for three months. GeneralNotability (talk) 20:48, 26 August 2020 (UTC)
 * These accounts are to FornesNF. Mz7 (talk) 20:34, 26 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Well, they're socking, and based on behavior I feel reasonably confident that they're socks of JamesOredan. and I've ECP'd World languages for three months. GeneralNotability (talk) 20:48, 26 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Well, they're socking, and based on behavior I feel reasonably confident that they're socks of JamesOredan. and I've ECP'd World languages for three months. GeneralNotability (talk) 20:48, 26 August 2020 (UTC)

Suspected sockpuppets



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Ongoing shenanigans, generally downplaying African/Muslim presence and genetic influence in Spain.

The day after I reverted this obvious IP edit: in favorite article African admixture in Europe,  from the 46.222.* range reported earlier (see also  by sock RetinB), it was restored by 81.203.176.111 which geolocates to Albacete, where many previous IPs did: I didn't notice it at the time, so the IP is stale now. I just reverted it again, along with edits by sock Greedent. Within an hour, 84.78.250.133 showed up to restore it again. The geolocation is a bit different, but it's on another network; he seems to use more than one. 84.78.250.133 also repeated basically the same edit of previous socks in Reconquista, about Muslims being expelled from Spain (and not just some!), and that it was in 1609:, compare with this: from the now-blocked 2a02:2e02:d90::/44 range, and this:  from the 46.222.* range, restoring these: , , from the older adjacent 2A02:2E02:D8F::/44 range that's also obviously JamesOredan, and were made the day after JamesOredan was editing the same article. -- IamNotU (talk) 02:44, 27 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Part of the edition recovered because it is correctly found in the article. Added Greece.
 * The previous edition was more complete. However, Sicily belongs to the Southern Italy.
 * , agreed that blocking probably won't be effective given how much they're hopping between IPs. Semi'd African admixture in Europe for one year. GeneralNotability (talk) 12:56, 28 August 2020 (UTC)

I added yet another IP 84.124.156.8, from the same general area of southern Spain, today making very similar changes in African admixture in Europe as the others that I reverted: Conceivably this could be a different person, but I think it's too much of a coincidence and all adds up to a picture of a duck.
 * The lead of the article was a mess - editing the same sentence that the other IPs in the past days have, and which JamesOredan and other socks have been edit-warring over for years; removing the statistics from it, adding Greece as the other IPs did. It also adds more text, the gist of which is that a little African admixture is found in lots of places. The idea that Spaniards are just as "white" as other Europeans is a hallmark of JamesOredan's editing.
 * - deleting another similar sentence.

I don't know if there's much point in blocking these IPs. , maybe you could also page-protect African admixture in Europe? It's already been protected several times before, because of JamesOredan. I've been trying to keep an eye on it since the last one expired in June, but it seems to be getting a little out of control... --IamNotU (talk) 19:17, 27 August 2020 (UTC)

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Suspected sockpuppets



 * Tools: Editor interaction utility • Interaction Timeline • User compare report Auto-generated every hour.

Back again, carrying on years-long disputes again, about genetic purity of Spaniards and how glorious was the empire again?

The IP was active in early August, and again for the past several days, and all 50 or so edits seem to be theirs, so probably a block is worthwhile. Other IPs in that range, and geolocating to Albacete, have been reported previously.

In Genetic history of the Iberian Peninsula, a long-time stomping ground:
 * IbeRequeté adds "citation needed" to the same sentence about Middle Eastern genetic influence that numerous socks have tried to change: . Sock "Blade and the rest":, two days later 188.76.0.171 (same IP range, network, and geolocation as the one being reported) , and other socks: , , , etc.
 * Removing mention of the Canary Islands:
 * IbeRequeté The Canary Islands don't belong to the Iberian Peninsula
 * Sock Jacob34T: The article talks about the genetics of the Iberian Peninsula, the Canary Islands do not belong to the Iberian Peninsula or the European continent.

In Expulsion of the Moriscos, also a favorite topic in this and related articles, edit-warring the past few days with another user and an IP:
 * The IP typically insisting there's no significant North African DNA in Iberia, and if there is it's in Portugal!!:, and then edit-warring over it. See also IPs from previously-reported range: , etc.
 * After failing to win the edit-war, the IP starts adding "citation needed":, then eight minutes later IbeRequeté shows up to take over:

In Portuguese Empire insisting ''Portugal was REALLY NOT the first global empire!!! Spain was (too)!!!!'':
 * 188.76.203.162: ,
 * Older socks:, , and the master: , , etc.

In Reconquista (another old fave), the IP makes the same reverted edit: as last week's from obvious IP :  (see evidence in previous report).

As usual, there's more if needed. -- IamNotU (talk) 20:43, 3 September 2020 (UTC)

Comments by other users
''Accused parties may also comment/discuss in this section below. See Defending yourself against claims.''

Clerk, CheckUser, and/or patrolling admin comments

 * Evidence clearly shows similar edits from the account and IP to the edits by sock puppets in the past. Indef'd account, blocked IP for two weeks. Closing SPI...  ~Oshwah~  (talk) (contribs)   02:32, 6 September 2020 (UTC)

Suspected sockpuppets



 * Tools: Editor interaction utility • Interaction Timeline • User compare report Auto-generated every hour.

All these are CU blocked; they are a match with, who was tagged as "suspected". Drmies (talk) 20:32, 27 September 2020 (UTC)

Comments by other users
''Accused parties may also comment/discuss in this section below. See Defending yourself against claims.''

Clerk, CheckUser, and/or patrolling admin comments

 * Tagged all as "suspected,", closing. GeneralNotability (talk) 14:17, 1 October 2020 (UTC)

Suspected sockpuppets



 * Tools: Editor interaction utility • Interaction Timeline • User compare report Auto-generated every hour.

Similar to the rest, waiting to get autoconfirmed then jumping right into old stomping grounds including Spaniards and Genetic history of the Iberian Peninsula, downplaying North African genetic influence in Spain, and playing it up in Italy and Portugal, see previous reports. For example:

In Spaniards, continuing a years-long edit war over the same sentence, to downplay Muslim influence and North African genetics:
 * DavideNotta:, , , , , ,
 * Visoredd: ,
 * NormanGear:, ,
 * SmithGraves: ,
 * Jacob34T:
 * JamesOredan: ,

There are various other indications. Requesting CU due to history of sleepers. --IamNotU (talk) 21:44, 13 October 2020 (UTC) IamNotU (talk) 21:44, 13 October 2020 (UTC)


 * Regarding DavideNotta's comment below, I'll note that JamesOredan has been known to brazenly deny their sockpuppetry, e.g.:, , etc. I think the diffs and other behavior speak for themselves, but I can provide further details in private if necessary. --IamNotU (talk) 11:24, 14 October 2020 (UTC)

Comments by other users
''Accused parties may also comment/discuss in this section below. See Defending yourself against claims.''

The accusations are false and cherry-picking. Many of my editions are totally different, and even some editions are literally the opposite of what he argues. He has only taken certain few adverbs, adjectives or tiny phrases that coincide or are similar. He also claims that I have jumped to an article related to Portugal to edit or add things from North Africa, but actually I have not edited anything related to Portugal or the Portuguese at all. This is easily verifiable in my contributions.

Futhermore, I'm not downplaying anything. I have only tried to simplify, and I have added the influence of the Moors, previously called "Arab-Berber" in the Spaniards.,. You can see perfectly that in the article Spaniards and Genetic history of the Iberian Peninsula there is no type of North African downplaying. They are mentioned and developed perfectly, I have not deleted or hidden anything from the topic.

I have also restored the stable version of the Iberian Peninsula, recovering the source and phrase where the Sub-Saharan influence of Iberia is confirmed.

Add update: It seems now that the fact that both JamesOredan and I deny an allegation is also proof. That isn't a proof, rather it is something that anyone can do. Don't use fallacies, and everything you have to contribute do it in public, not in private. You are showing clear acts of bad faith. DavideNotta (talk • contribs) 12:43, 14 October 2020 (UTC)

Clerk, CheckUser, and/or patrolling admin comments

 * - I believe IamNotU's evidence shows enough overlap to justify checkuser here. GeneralNotability (talk) 12:59, 14 October 2020 (UTC)
 * ✅ plus:
 * -- Amanda  (aka DQ) 18:04, 14 October 2020 (UTC)
 * -- Amanda  (aka DQ) 18:04, 14 October 2020 (UTC)
 * -- Amanda  (aka DQ) 18:04, 14 October 2020 (UTC)


 * Everyone is, , closing. GeneralNotability (talk) 18:07, 14 October 2020 (UTC)

Suspected sockpuppets

 * ( original case name)


 * Tools: Editor interaction utility • Interaction Timeline • User compare report Auto-generated every hour.

CU requested for the named sock only; I'm aware there will be no comment on CU evidence for the IPs, but I'm including them as listed socks for the record (the first is part of the evidence). BaylanSP was blocked for WP:NOTHERE behavior on 8/9; in some of his editing, he logged out and edited from the 188 IP address, which was obvious and was noted at the relevant edit warring report. BaylanSP primarily edited Spain-related articles to downplay the non-European genetic history of Spaniards, to downplay the presence of non-Romance language in Spain, to play up its national achievements, etc., and edit warred whenever their POV edits were reverted. Five days after BaylanSP was blocked, the 37 IP showed up to restore some of Baylan's reverted edits; Itagnol then appeared and their first edits to Wikipedia were to edit war to maintain BaylanSP's edits. Itagnol also edit wars on Spanish nationalistic topics, uses some of the same arguments (e.g., "broken links"), the same tendency to capitalize the word "Lead", the same use of a greeting to sign off , both primarily edit from mobile. Grandpallama (talk) 16:54, 21 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Adding PLUS ULTRA CARLOS to the list on the basis on behavioural overlap. Same Spanish nationalist interests: lists of rankings of Spanish history (Itagnol, PLUS ULTRA CARLOS). Same interest in Spanish-born Roman emperors as BaylanSP (shown in previous diff). Substantial overlap at, including large additions with same referencing formatting and style (Itagnol, PLUS ULTRA CARLOS) and edit warring with similar edit summary tone (Itagnol, PLUS ULTRA CARLOS). PLUS ULTRA CARLOS did not edit between 13 August and 22 August, Itagnol's first edit was 16 August and most recent edit was 20 August. PLUS ULTRA CARLOS' first edit was 21 October 2020, which would tie in with the 14 October 2020 CU block of several other JamesOredan socks. Jr8825  •  Talk  02:40, 23 August 2021 (UTC)

Comments by other users
''Accused parties may also comment/discuss in this section below. See Defending yourself against claims.'' GeneralNotability, is the behavioral evidence here enough to merge these socks under JamesOredan? If not, it's pretty easy to obtain more (I wrote up my documentation before I was aware of the long-term sockmaster). If possible, linking them will it easier to provide evidence for future socks. Grandpallama (talk) 16:33, 24 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Comment – Itagnol has also displayed DUCKish knowledge of article history within the topic area, pointing to a 3-year-old diff to support their argument. Highly unlikely to be a new editor, see Special:Permalink/1039694887 for more behavioural evidence. Jr8825  •  Talk  19:06, 21 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Per Jr8825's comment, it looks like this is almost certainly a new series of JamesOredan socks (thanks to him for making the connection). Same editing interests, and one of the socks even has a similar name (BeltránSP). All the more reason to run CU and catch other sleepers. Grandpallama (talk) 21:23, 21 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Comment (at Grandpallama's kind invitation). I won't add much as the situation seems under control and close to being resolved. BaylanSP also edited the article on Theodosius I, a Roman emperor of Spanish background, so that's a bit more evidence for this wider pattern of editing in Spanish topics. The diffs for this can be found in that ANEW report he filed against me at my own accidental encouragement (this is what brought him to the attention of those who blocked him). Avilich (talk) 21:24, 22 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Update: Both BaylanSP and Itagnol have now been ✅. I think we can close this case now. What do you think? DarkMatterMan4500 (talk) (contribs) 13:02, 25 August 2021 (UTC)

Clerk, CheckUser, and/or patrolling admin comments

 * - genetic ancestry of Spain (downplaying North African), Habsburg influence in Spain, list of largest empires? I'm pretty sure I just scored BINGO on my JamesOredan card. Please compare these two to each other and Sockpuppet_investigations/JamesOredan, sleeper check as well please. GeneralNotability (talk) 20:26, 22 August 2021 (UTC)
 * - ~TNT (she/they • talk) 20:53, 23 August 2021 (UTC)
 * is ✅ to . . seems very .  ~TNT (she/they • talk) 20:58, 23 August 2021 (UTC)
 * I've set the case status to checked. --Blablubbs (talk) 20:59, 23 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Pretty confident these are JamesOredan. Merged, retagged, closing. GeneralNotability (talk) 19:20, 24 August 2021 (UTC)

Suspected sockpuppets
I believe the historic and banned sockpuppeter User:JamesOredan, (also look at his long list of socks and at the Sockpuppet investigations/JamesOredan/Archive]]) is back with new socks; i believe these to be: JoaquindeMosquerayFigueroa, Bandeirantedopaulo, Norprobr, Venezia Friulano, El Gran Capitán, and Kev31zz. The articles they are obsessed with are always the same with which the old socks were obsessed: Spanish empire, list of largest empires, African admixture in Europe, Expulsion of the Moriscos, Genetic history of the Iberian Peninsula; and similary themed. The agenda is always the same: Spanish imperialism and nationalism on one hand, watering down Moorish presence in Spain on the other; they also have animosity towards the Portuguese, the Italians, and the British. An interesting thing to note is this, even tho' the user is obviously Spanish, he sometimes claims not to be: Venezia Friulano claims to be Italian and uses an Italian name (exactly like two old socks of James: Itagnol and Davide Notta) whereas JoaquindeMosquerayFigueroa and Bandeirantedopaulo have almost stereotypical Portuguese names (this pattern is the first suspicious thing I have noticed. To attack Italian and Portuguese users, this Spanish sockpuppetter used to have and I think continues to have the habit of pretending to be Italian or Portuguese. Perhaps JamesOredan and SmithGrave were chosen to appear English). Some of these users have been blocked for their behavior, but not for being traced back to JamesOredan, which I believe to be the case, so I still decided to put them here, so we can see if they are part of this same newtork.


 * Spanish empire stuff

The user is obsessed with making it bigger, wheter it's the map or the number/figures.


 * Old sock Itagnol wanting to use an "anchronistic map" for the Spanish empire because it was there (just to clarify, briefly put there by other socks of JamesOredan like PlusUltraCarlos and SmithGraves, and it was twice agreed in the talk page to remove it )


 * JoaquindeMosquerayFigueroa waging edit war to say it was bigger (began here:.


 * Venezia then with map with bigger empire: argument? it was there and "an anochronous map is just better",.


 * Old socks increasing the size of Spanish empire over and over again, not to list all them, suffice


 * JoaquindeMosquerayFigueroa increasing the size over and over again,,,,.


 * El Gran Capitàn increasing the size figures and again


 * Also Kev31zz increased the size figures on the two articles, ,


 * Norprobr increasing the size figures


 * Genetic and muslim stuff

The obsession here is to water down the African and moorish genetic influence in the Iberian peninsula.


 * Old socks removing map, images, and informations that show Spain being significantly genetically influenced by Africans. RetinB: . ip1: . Old 46.* Yoigo socks:, . Jacob34T: ,


 * Among the many edits Venezia has made, the removal of the map of Iberia,, the removal of info on Muslim occupation in Spain . Note that in the edits above and others, the old socks also did stuff to claim that Muslim influence is not really only part of Spain, but also part of Portugal and Italy (which btw is correct, but that's not the point). Similar stuff was done here , and is being done here , and here . And here is a claim (last line) that Moriscos expelled did not return to Spain, but to other parts of Iberia (Portugal implied) and Italy.


 * Venezia also waged an edit war to water down the Moorish influence on the Mosque–Cathedral of Córdoba, see Talk:Mosque–Cathedral of Córdoba) and waged edit war to remove the informations that Trajan, altough born in Spain, was of Italic lineage (clearly the goal was again to remove non-Spanish related info; first from the body of the article, then from the intro, see two debates I had with Venezia on Talk:Trajan.)


 * Style and Language

It's typical of these users to cause edit wars on these articles and make personal attacks to users, also based on nationality ("biased against Spain"), and they all play and pretend to follow the rules and falsely claim all the others are violating them, when it's clear they are the disruptors.


 * The original sockpuppeter James Oredan saying that it's the "bias of the English", Portugal too is biased


 * Norprobr says to user:TompaDompa that the ones who agreed to the map of the Spanish empire are "biased Portuguese users". Btw, TompaDompa has also been a target of attacks by Venezia Friulano and JoaquindeMosquerayFigueroa.


 * Venezia Friulano says User:R_Prazeres is a muslim user with "an Islamic bias" and and tells me in a long complain why Italians are biased..

Barjimoa (talk) 14:50, 10 July 2023 (UTC)

Comments by other users

 * Accused parties may also comment/discuss in this section below. See Defending yourself against claims.

Clerk, CheckUser, and/or patrolling admin comments
, you recently blocked two of the listed suspects at Sockpuppet investigations/JoaquindeMosquerayFigueroa. Any comment here?--Bbb23 (talk) 13:37, 19 July 2023 (UTC)


 * Interesting. Seems like it might take a while to delve into this. I will see if I can find some time in the next day or two to look into this. Mz7 (talk) 07:14, 20 July 2023 (UTC)


 * I apologize for the delay in getting to this case; life has been busy. I am looking at this now. Mz7 (talk) 07:08, 18 August 2023 (UTC)
 * After reviewing the evidence presented and doing some additional searching myself, I agree with Barjimoa that Venezia Friulano is a sockpuppet of JamesOredan. I will start by noting that JoaquindeMosquerayFigueroa and Bandeirantedopaulo are sockpuppets of each other, but I believe they are ❌ to Venezia Friulano. Similarly, Norprobr is blocked for sockpuppetry, but that user is also ❌ to Venezia Friulano / JamesOredan. I did not spend any time looking at either El Gran Capitán or Kev31zz because neither account has edited in a long time.  When I first began looking at this SPI, I was pretty pessimistic that it would lead to anything conclusive—all of the past JamesOredan socks are long stale, and the last detected one was identified in August 2021. It is typically pretty hard to make connections to such long dormant cases.
 * However, I noticed that Venezia Friulano's account was created and became active in September 2021, shortly after the last JamesOredan sock was identified. The timing of this is suspicious.
 * Additionally, there are a few behavioral idiosyncrasies that JamesOredan socks exhibit which Venezia Friulano also exhibits. For example, Venezia Friulano always capitalizes the word "Lead" when referring to the lead section of an article, see e.g. and  (do a case-sensitive Ctrl+F for "Lead" in the edit summaries). This is an uncommon quirk, and it is one that at least one past JamesOredan sock shared: . There is another interesting peculiarity which I will withhold per WP:BEANS; I've noted it down for checkusers on our private wiki:.
 * Finally, after running a check on Venezia Friulano, I found that pretty much all of their IPs are in ranges that JamesOredan historically used (i.e. ranges that were previously checked when checking JamesOredan socks).
 * In combination with the shared editing interests that Barjimoa pointed out above, it is my belief that Venezia Friulano is an account created by JamesOredan to evade their ban from editing. For this reason, I will be blocking Venezia Friulano indefinitely., closing. Mz7 (talk) 08:10, 18 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you very much for your amazing work Mz7, I'm sorry my request took you so much of your time. Also thanks to Bbb23 for asking you to check the situation. I was about to add new evidence regarding all the users, but since now they are either blocked or inactive I won't go into it and also I trust your judgement. I'll keep a constant eye on these articles and interests to see if new problems arise. Again, thank you and sorry if it absorbed too much time.Barjimoa (talk) 13:43, 18 August 2023 (UTC)

Suspected sockpuppets
It's now very easy to recognize these socks since everything is connected. I am restoring the articles changed, vandalised and poisoned by JamesOredan and his many socks. I am positive that User:46.222.104.6, with this edit, proved to be User:Venezia Friulano. This edit on the Trajan page (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:MobileDiff/1172193066) leads me to that conclusion because:


 * 1-it perfectly matches previous edits by Venezia on the Trajan page to remove that very line which has the info that the hometown of Trajan in Spain (Italica) was settled by people from Italy rather than locals (see the history of the Trajan and Italica pages and the talk:Trajan page for these numerous attempts by Venezia). This is a very specific and fallacious thing that only Venezia has argued for (over and over) in the past. It is still part of that goal of making Wikipedia content more "Spanish" and less "non-Spanish" (and in this case less "Italian").


 * 2- I think point one is enough, but, to make it more obvious, this user used the word "Hispano Roman". No one ever used this word except for Venezia, who used it four times in the talk:Trajan page.


 * 3-the timing.

Barjimoa (talk) 16:49, 26 August 2023 (UTC)

Comments by other users

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Clerk, CheckUser, and/or patrolling admin comments

 * One edit yesterday. Not worth doing anything. If the IP continues to edit, you can re-report, but if you do, don't request CU for IPs. Closing. Bbb23 (talk) 17:31, 26 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Got it, I forgot about CU not being needed for IPs. If he does again I'll open wth CU=no.Barjimoa (talk) 18:55, 26 August 2023 (UTC)

Suspected sockpuppets
I am very sorry to report all these socks in such a short period of time but they create trouble and are so obvious that I feel like I have to, they are also an obstacle in cleaning the articles vandalised by the network of socks. These are IPs used by the now blocked User:Venezia Friulano, sock of the blocked User:JamesOredan, to evade the permanent block right after it happened. He has already caused another edit war on Trajan's page in Venezia fashion, same agenda, same everything.

In addition to the same shared interest and the timing of their activity, we shall start with the fact that 37.29.246.234 and 46.222.217.76 have seemingly made it clear to be the same user. The user kinda told me here ( https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Barjimoa?markasread=289889858&markasreadwiki=enwiki#c-46.222.217.76-20230827135200-What_is_the_problem?) but it was already evident by these edits: in particular, this edit by 37.29.246.234 (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:MobileDiff/1172491809) is the same as this edit by 46.222.217.76 (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:MobileDiff/1172496508).

That 46.222.217.76=37.29.246.234 is both User:Venezia Friulano and 46.222.104.6 is evident from the fact this edit (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:MobileDiff/1172481308), is the same as this edit by Venezia ( https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:MobileDiff/1119688888 ) in turn the same as this edit by 46.222.104.6 (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:MobileDiff/1172193066). I picked one edit by Venezia but there are like many many more of the same kind in the Trajan article (and a couple more by the two peevious IPs). Same detailed thing (very specific) and same fallacious argumentation for it. And as I said before, to make it more obvious, this user used the word "Hispano Roman". No one ever used this word except for Venezia, who used it four times in the talk:Trajan page. Barjimoa (talk) 14:37, 27 August 2023 (UTC)

Comments by other users

 * Accused parties may also comment/discuss in this section below. See Defending yourself against claims.

Clerk, CheckUser, and/or patrolling admin comments

 * It's possible or even plausible the IPs are related to JamesOredan, but after a short spree three weeks ago they've been stale since, including after the protection expired. Blocking would not achieve much at this point. If disruption resumes, file another SPI or preferably request protection at WP:RFPP, as you did on this occasion. Closing. DatGuyTalkContribs 21:44, 16 September 2023 (UTC)

Suspected sockpuppets
User:LucenseLugo has recently interacted with User:Venezia Friulano, a sockpuppet of User:JamesOredan, on the spanish empire talk page, where a very disruptive cercle of socks is active, in a concensus like manner. LucenseLugo and Venezia Friulano were the only users making the following arguments (after almost all others, all socks of JamesOredan, were already out):

Section: map (again)
 * - During the Iberian Union, Portugal and its colonial territories belonged to the Spanish Habsburg Monarchy (Felipe II, Felipe III, Felipe IV), so I don't find any problem stating that they were territories of the Hispanic Monarchy at that time.
 * - But more important: It is curious how for the Spanish Empire some want to use a "maximum extension map" instead of an anachronous one despite the fact that the Portuguese Empire, the British Empire or the French colonial Empire (among many others) clearly use anachronous maps.
 * Very strange, for sure. Venezia Friulano (talk) 13:22, 9 July 2023 (UTC) WP:SOCKSTRIKE TompaDompa (talk) 18:48, 18 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Woah, you are very right here. I have checked your point and it's true. All of the big European empires have an anachronous map (in my opinion, as it should be) but the anachronous map for the Spanish Empire is object of dispute for some users? Huh, that seems a little bit sketchy. All articles should be treated equally and anachronous maps show the real historical extent of empires.
 * Anyways, as it is right now, it shouldn't bother anyone. I have written what was part of Portugal because of the Iberian Union, so there are no claims that Spain used to have Cape Verde, Angola or Mozambique. LucenseLugo (talk) 15:34, 11 July 2023 (UTC)

Section: area
 * What I denounce is that there are veteran users with a lot of free time (aka TompaDompa) who have shielded articles to avoid being edited by other users, which goes against the essence of Wikipedia.Of course the List of the Largest Empires article is stable and old, but because it's an article that can only be edited by TompaDompa. There have been many attempts to edit the article by other users with alternative measurement sources (for the Spanish Empire and for many other Empires), but in this article his only fetish source Taagepera (1997) prevails, unilaterally deleting all those alternative sources that he doesn't like. The article is in fact an article almost just for Taagapera's views, its just surreal. I even thought that Taagepera could be a relative of his, due to the insane obsession with this specific author, eliminating almost everyone else in the academy.This user is already well known, I am just one of many who have denounced his abuse of power. I'm not writing anything new on Wikipedia Venezia Friulano (talk) 12:09, 9 July 2023 (UTC) WP:SOCKSTRIKE TompaDompa (talk) 18:53, 18 August 2023 (UTC)
 * I completely agree with you. It seems there are certain users who think they have more rights for spending their entire free time on Wikipedia, no sorry but that is reserved for administrators, we are all users and we should be treated equally.But for some, they want to keep their edits prevailing and the ones who dare to change anything face instant reversion or even reports to admins just for having a different vision. It's not fair, we all should be treated equally. LucenseLugo (talk) 14:31, 9 July 2023 (UTC)
 * What I denounce is that there are veteran users with a lot of free time (aka TompaDompa) who have shielded articles to avoid being edited by other users, which goes against the essence of Wikipedia.Of course the List of the Largest Empires article is stable and old, but because it's an article that can only be edited by TompaDompa. There have been many attempts to edit the article by other users with alternative measurement sources (for the Spanish Empire and for many other Empires), but in this article his only fetish source Taagepera (1997) prevails, unilaterally deleting all those alternative sources that he doesn't like. The article is in fact an article almost just for Taagapera's views, its just surreal. I even thought that Taagepera could be a relative of his, due to the insane obsession with this specific author, eliminating almost everyone else in the academy.This user is already well known, I am just one of many who have denounced his abuse of power. I'm not writing anything new on Wikipedia Venezia Friulano (talk) 12:09, 9 July 2023 (UTC) WP:SOCKSTRIKE TompaDompa (talk) 18:53, 18 August 2023 (UTC)
 * I completely agree with you. It seems there are certain users who think they have more rights for spending their entire free time on Wikipedia, no sorry but that is reserved for administrators, we are all users and we should be treated equally.But for some, they want to keep their edits prevailing and the ones who dare to change anything face instant reversion or even reports to admins just for having a different vision. It's not fair, we all should be treated equally. LucenseLugo (talk) 14:31, 9 July 2023 (UTC)
 * I completely agree with you. It seems there are certain users who think they have more rights for spending their entire free time on Wikipedia, no sorry but that is reserved for administrators, we are all users and we should be treated equally.But for some, they want to keep their edits prevailing and the ones who dare to change anything face instant reversion or even reports to admins just for having a different vision. It's not fair, we all should be treated equally. LucenseLugo (talk) 14:31, 9 July 2023 (UTC)

They agreed on almost everything. Note that the entire debate got started by a LOT of Oredan's socks. In these last discussions they were the only ones left who argued for a anachronous map.

After I put the evidence on the talk page of Spanish Empire and after informing the user of my suspection, LucenseLugo seems to have gone inactive. He is very disruptive as can be seen on the history of his talk page (he removes those messages) and is known for (spanish) nationalist editing, which Venezia Friulano i.e JamesOredan is also known for (as well as for disruptive editing). The User(s) of all of these accounts are/is spanish linguistically. LucenseLugo also knows a lot about wikipedia even though he only joined in january this year. His writing style is almost the same as JamesOredan's (And Venezia's) writing style. Reman Empire (talk) 10:48, 24 September 2023 (UTC)


 * Note that even though James has probably got a new sock by now, it would still be good to block the old. Reman Empire (talk) 11:19, 24 September 2023 (UTC)

Comments by other users

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Clerk, CheckUser, and/or patrolling admin comments

 * CU makes this but this will need to be decided by behaviour.  Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 05:37, 26 September 2023 (UTC)
 * I don't think there's enough evidence. Sharing the same POV, especially one that is not so uncommon, is far from enough. . MarioGom (talk) 18:51, 29 September 2023 (UTC)

Suspected sockpuppets
I was told in the previous debate it was possibile and in fact plausible some of these were socks of User:Venezia Friulano, one of the many many socks of User:JamesOredan (old evidence back here: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/JamesOredan/Archive#/editor/89), but we let it go because they were inactive, however I was told to come back if it was needed. Well, the user has again been back at editing despite being permanently blocked...and after I reverted him he messaged me (it's the first IP here) to admit it was him, insult me and say "I will always edit...your blocks and reverts are absolutely in vain...you can now block this account again, no problem" (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:MobileDiff/1179240061). This kind of behaviour has surpassed all limits of decency. These are the most obvious IPs of Venezia/James that I have seen operate, there are surely others however. Can we have a permanent range block of these IPs and the connected users to make sure the indefenitive ban of JamesOredan/VeneziaFriulano is effective? Barjimoa (talk) 19:42, 9 October 2023 (UTC)

Edit: I have added User:Viristo, for it is a very obvious sock of Venezia.

1)He joined 10 days ago to go past the ban.

2)He has the interests as it edited articles that have been very often edited by Venezia and the socks of James: Spaniards (their hostorical backgroun), Italy (because Venezia has an issue with Italy), going after my attempts to revert the edits made by the socks.

3)This edit (Trajan as a Spaniard, (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:MobileDiff/1179625196) is a very specific thing pushed in the past only by Venezia in the Trajan article (and in the Spanirds article by his socks/ips).

4)This edit on Italy (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:MobileDiff/1179622807) is, on one hand, a removal of references Venezia already removed in the past (the removed part is "central Italy", Venezia does not like the word "Italy". For example: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:MobileDiff/1165943470; https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:MobileDiff/1179214002) and at the same time a recovery of a previous version, word for word, inserted in the past by Venezia. You'll note in the history of the page that Venezia multiple times reintroduced it despite attempts at trimmering it, sometimes against me and sometimes against other users. That peculiar (and weird) sentence "Rome expanded by a process of Romanization" has also been inserted in the past by Venezia in the Spain article.

5)he wages long edit wars other than responding, again typical of him. Barjimoa (talk) 15:02, 11 October 2023 (UTC)

Edit2: added User:188.76.0.252, his first contributions being again how much bigger and how much more powerful the Spanish empire is than Wikipedia wants to admit! Very tipical of all the socks, we already debated the hundreds of edits of this fashion when we blocked Venezia Friulano. It also reintroduced content put there by Venezia in the Classical Guitar page that I had removed, which was again something like highliting the Classical Guitar as a pure Spanish invention, not also French, German or whatever. Again, same agenda, timeline, basically same edits etc. Barjimoa (talk) 16:48, 11 October 2023 (UTC)

Edit3: I added the IP User:46.6.151.222 who, a short time ago, messaged me to say:

"Anyway, I will continue editing. All the best. Don't forget James is with an "s" next time :)". https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:MobileDiff/1179656939.

This is a reference to the fact that I previously mispelled JamesOredan as JameOredan. And his IPs continue to persecute me on my talk page. The Viristo sock has been quickly blocked by administrators, so my request left is a range block for the IPs and connected accounts. Barjimoa (talk) 16:23, 11 October 2023 (UTC)

Comments by other users

 * Accused parties may also comment/discuss in this section below. See Defending yourself against claims.

Clerk, CheckUser, and/or patrolling admin comments

 * IP edits are old, closing. Bbb23 (talk) 13:52, 2 December 2023 (UTC)

Suspected sockpuppets
These are CU-confirmed with each other and there's little doubt that certainly Everton is a sock of Oredon. Update: confirmed also with earlier socks User:DrakeXper and Draslerr. Drmies (talk) 21:13, 18 March 2024 (UTC) Drmies (talk) 21:13, 18 March 2024 (UTC)

Comments by other users

 * Accused parties may also comment/discuss in this section below. See Defending yourself against claims.

Clerk, CheckUser, and/or patrolling admin comments

 * Tagged, locks requested, closing. Thanks, Spicy (talk) 01:16, 19 March 2024 (UTC)