Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Killercali/Archive

Report date December 28 2009, 09:14 (UTC)

 * Suspected sockpuppets

Account created August 08, all but one edits were on Jim Markunas, editor of "Chicks with Guns Magazine" up to May 09. Note article created with unusual edit summary "Added notability, added sources".
 * Evidence submitted by MuffledThud (talk)

User:Archer Drezelan created October 09, immediately began creating links and articles on Lucas Hardeman, related artists, and template to link them together. Note intro of Lucas Hardeman: employee of "Chicks with Guns". Note also edit history of Lucas Hardeman, where edits are made by User:Archer Drezelan with edit summary "added notability" at,. On 28 Dec. 09, User:Killercali awakens from 7-month hibernation to remove AFD notice and refimprove tag from Lucas Hardeman in these two adjacent edits. MuffledThud (talk) 09:14, 28 December 2009 (UTC)

User:75.85.119.218 has made only one edit: blanking Articles for deletion/Lucas Hardeman in this edit, two minutes before User:Killercali removed the AFD from Lucas Hardeman.

User:Livewire legend's first edit in March 06 was to add Lucas Hardeman to the notable alumni of a college in this edit. User:Archer Drezelan re-attempts this in Nov 09 at, and  in the space of a few minutes. User:Livewire legend has subsequently been the sole co-editor with User:Archer Drezelan of Template:R.E.B.E.L., The Dance: The History of American Minstrelsy, Jason Christopher White and Aaron White. This behavior was already noted by another editor at User talk:Livewire legend. User:Livewire legend has also uploaded photos of Lucas Hardeman File:LH in Studio.jpg, File:Lucas Hardeman Rosa Parks.jpg, claiming self-creation by Lucas Hardeman in the summary. File:Lucas hardeman pinches tacos.jpg is credited to "Markus Eliance", which is noted as an alias of Lucas Hardeman in Lucas Hardeman.


 * Comment A day after User:Killercali removed the AFD notice and refimprove tag from Lucas Hardeman, User:75.85.119.218 did the same in this edit. MuffledThud (talk) 09:45, 29 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Comments by accused parties    See Defending yourself against claims.

As was stated in the deletion page for Lucas Hardeman, myself and Archer Drezelan share an IP address, and have been making edits to a number of pages to, what I now know to be a "Walled Garden". After reviewing the rules of Wikipedia, we both have condeded to move the remaining pages we've edited to our sandbox, until the original subjects are notable under Wikipedia guidelines.

However, we do not have any connection to User:Killercali. Whomever made those edits would not be from our same network, as I personally am not familiar with any other editors for the particular pages you've submitted as evidence. Livewire legend (talk) 13:25, 28 December 2009 (UTC)

Response: Same thing for User:75.85.119.218 -- No idea who that is. I didn't even know you could edit Wikipedia without a real username. Unless the admins just removed the name or something. But yeah, I don't know who killercali or that othr user are. It's just me an Livewire legend who were editing those other pages. Archer Drezelan (talk) 21:58, 28 December 2009 (UTC)

ALSO Re: the picture files, we had access to those pictures from the subject of the page. Which is also why we said in the deletion page for Lucas Hardeman that we did in fact make an AUTOBIO of sorts; meaning specifically that we know the subject, but he did not write it himself. We had access to his personal history just the same.

Again, we've gone through the guidelines and understand what we did was against policy. We will make sure not repeat our error in the future. Archer Drezelan (talk) 22:08, 28 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Comment - You're saying here that you're not Lucas Hardeman: "we know the subject, but he did not write it himself. We had access to his personal history just the same."
 * Yet as noted above, you've uploaded images claiming that "I, Lucas Hardeman" (or in some cases "I, Archer Drezelan") is the creator and copyright holder, and grants permission to publish it under CCA license, etc. So which is correct: are you the creator of the photos or not?  If you're not both Lucas Hardeman, or his relatives old enough to have taken the photos yourself/yourselves, then you've both falsely claimed to be creators of these images, and they should be deleted immediately. MuffledThud (talk) 21:40, 29 December 2009 (UTC)

Response: We gave the subject credit for creating the photos because the photos belong to him, and we used them for the page. Obviously these pictures were not in public domain, with the exception of the Newsweek article (which we should have included) and the infobox. So technically, yes, we did make a false claim in being the creators, because we have no way of knowing who physically took the picture. Livewire legend and I are not his relatives, but we do have a relationship with the subject that would constitute a COI under Wikipedia's guidelines.

As well, when originally uploading them, it was done without carefully going over the categories on Copyright and proper submission. As is policy, if the pictures are to be deleted, so be it. Archer Drezelan (talk) 09:54, 30 December 2009 (UTC)

Response: Shouldn't we keep this argument about sockpuppetry? The issue of the images lacking proper citing is not wholly relevant to this particular case. Just like I said on the Articles_for_deletion/Lucas_Hardeman, the killercali dude is screwing up our peace negotiation. :) We just want this resolved, and to keep our accounts. I personally don't care if the subjects page gets deleted, because there are plenty of other subjects I'm interested in contributing to. But, like Archer said, do what you must, MuffledThud. It's your world, and I'm just a ferret.Livewire legend (talk) 10:21, 30 December 2009 (UTC)
 * The argument is indeed about sockpuppetry: you've misrepresented yourself as Lucas Hardeman when uploading the images, and this misrepresentation should be taken into account when judging whether to take you at your word that you and User:Archer Drezelan are separate users. MuffledThud (talk) 23:16, 2 January 2010 (UTC)

--By the way, thank for your vote on AFG, User:MuZemike.Livewire legend (talk) 10:30, 30 December 2009 (UTC)


 * It's not a vote really, but my observations. –MuZemike 22:19, 2 January 2010 (UTC)


 * Comments by other users


 * Clerk, patrolling admin and checkuser comments

I am leaning towards AGFing here that these are two separate people sharing one common IP, that IP not being the one who blanked the deletion discussion. –MuZemike 22:19, 28 December 2009 (UTC)

I don't think there is sockpuppetry going on here, given the diverse articles edited and the patterns. I'll leave it open if another administrator wants to look at it. –MuZemike 22:19, 2 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Conclusions