Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/KyleJoan/Archive

Suspected sockpuppets



 * Tools: Editor interaction utility • Interaction Timeline • User compare report Auto-generated every hour.

First, let me note that an SPI may have been opened into this anon IP previously, but I could find no archive of it.

After first editing on 5-7 Dec with three posts, 165.120.15.66 after five days suddenly began taking KyleJoan's side at Talk:Amanda Kloots — where virtually all of this IP's edits have been made. This IP's activity occurs in separate, non-intersecting blocks as KyleJoan's, the closest being a single instance of 11 minutes apart. Here are both editors' history for two days:

165.120.15.66
 * 23:05, 15 December 2020 diff hist +272‎  Talk:Amanda Kloots ‎
 * 22:51, 15 December 2020 diff hist +180‎  Talk:Amanda Kloots ‎
 * 19:00, 15 December 2020 diff hist +52‎  Talk:Amanda Kloots ‎
 * 18:56, 15 December 2020 diff hist +1,356‎  Talk:Amanda Kloots ‎

Kyle Joan
 * 07:25, 15 December 2020 diff hist +718‎  User talk:KyleJoan ‎
 * 07:10, 15 December 2020 diff hist −38‎  m User talk:KyleJoan ‎
 * 07:07, 15 December 2020 diff hist +83‎  User talk:KyleJoan ‎
 * 07:01, 15 December 2020 diff hist +78‎  User talk:KyleJoan ‎
 * 06:55, 15 December 2020 diff hist −2‎  m User talk:KyleJoan ‎
 * 06:55, 15 December 2020 diff hist 0‎  Jude Law ‎
 * 06:50, 15 December 2020 diff hist +1,850‎  User talk:KyleJoan ‎

165.120.15.66
 * 06:34, 15 December 2020 diff hist +695‎  Talk:Malacca ‎
 * 06:27, 15 December 2020 diff hist −125‎  Malacca ‎

Kyle Joan
 * 06:13, 15 December 2020 diff hist −97‎  Kehlani ‎

165.120.15.66
 * 06:04, 15 December 2020 diff hist +696‎  Talk:Amanda Kloots ‎

Kyle Joan
 * 05:57, 15 December 2020 diff hist −3‎  Talk:Amanda Kloots ‎
 * 05:49, 15 December 2020 diff hist −23‎  Nicole Richie ‎
 * 05:48, 15 December 2020 diff hist +4‎  m Talk:Amanda Kloots ‎
 * 05:43, 15 December 2020 diff hist +911‎  Talk:Amanda Kloots ‎
 * 04:58, 15 December 2020 diff hist +326‎  The National (band) ‎
 * 04:21, 15 December 2020 diff hist −74‎  Jude Law ‎

165.120.15.66
 * 03:52, 15 December 2020 diff hist +681‎  Talk:Amanda Kloots ‎
 * 03:29, 15 December 2020 diff hist +534‎  Talk:Amanda Kloots ‎
 * 03:00, 15 December 2020 diff hist +1,580‎  Talk:Amanda Kloots ‎

Kyle Joan
 * 02:34, 15 December 2020 diff hist −1‎  m User talk:Jehochman ‎
 * 02:24, 15 December 2020 diff hist +931‎  User talk:Jehochman ‎
 * 02:05, 15 December 2020 diff hist +1,140‎  Talk:Amanda Kloots ‎
 * 02:02, 15 December 2020 diff hist +472‎  User talk:Tenebrae ‎
 * 01:24, 15 December 2020 diff hist −99‎  Laura Dern ‎
 * 01:22, 15 December 2020 diff hist −111‎  Florence Pugh ‎
 * 01:20, 15 December 2020 diff hist +572‎  User talk:KyleJoan ‎

165.120.15.66
 * 00:52, 15 December 2020 diff hist −460‎  Strait of Malacca ‎
 * 00:44, 15 December 2020 diff hist +3‎  Strait of Malacca ‎
 * 00:18, 15 December 2020 diff hist +595‎  Talk:Amanda Kloots ‎
 * 22:45, 14 December 2020 diff hist +843‎  Talk:Amanda Kloots ‎
 * 22:24, 14 December 2020 diff hist +464‎  Talk:Amanda Kloots ‎
 * 21:15, 14 December 2020 diff hist +448‎  Talk:Amanda Kloots ‎

KyleJoan
 * 11:46, 14 December 2020 diff hist −20‎  Hustlers (film) ‎
 * 06:13, 14 December 2020 diff hist −3‎  Elizabeth Olsen ‎
 * 06:08, 14 December 2020 diff hist −21‎  Elizabeth Olsen ‎
 * 06:05, 14 December 2020 diff hist −606‎  Elizabeth Olsen ‎
 * 05:46, 14 December 2020 diff hist +936‎  Talk:Little Women (2019 film)
 * 04:19, 14 December 2020 diff hist +1,367‎  Talk:Little Women (2019 film)
 * 03:23, 14 December 2020 diff hist +1,058‎  Elizabeth Olsen ‎
 * 02:45, 14 December 2020 diff hist +1‎  m Talk:Amanda Kloots ‎
 * 02:31, 14 December 2020 diff hist +1,379‎  Talk:Amanda Kloots ‎
 * 02:06, 14 December 2020 diff hist +548‎  Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Requests for closure ‎
 * 01:28, 14 December 2020 diff hist −758‎  Kenny Omega ‎

KyleJoan keeps tabs on this IP, for example cherrypicking a comment made to that IP, along with a comment made to KyleJoan, here. (See at 07:25, 15 December 2020 and a subsequent response by me.)

More telling is how both KyleJoan and the IP Talk:Amanda Kloots fixate on a definition of "television personality" that no dictionary supports. That's an oddly specific argument. As examples: the IP here, and KyleJoan here.

While perhaps this is all coincidence, I feel there is reasonable evidence to present a case. Thank you.-- Tenebrae (talk) 18:37, 17 December 2020 (UTC)

Additional
1) As I belatedly remembered, one other signature behavior both KyleJoan and the now-changed IP exhibit is a habit of taking the time and effort to dig through years of an other editor's interactions in attempts to "dig up dirt." For example, KyleJoan did so here, going back to 2006, and the IP did so here, going back to 2014.

2) Interestingly, KyleJoan has not commented here in defense. The IP has done all that. I believe if they were two different people, each would have wanted their say.--Tenebrae (talk) 00:00, 21 December 2020 (UTC)

Comments by other users
''Accused parties may also comment/discuss in this section below. See Defending yourself against claims.''

This is nonsense. It is the same nonsense that was posted in the last sockpuppet investigation claiming that I am KyleJoan. An investigation closed after it was assessed as baseless, and filed by a sockpuppet. I am not KyleJoan. I disagree fundamentally with the way KyleJoan has edited in relation to the Amanda Kloots article, as should be self-evident from my comments on the article talk page. Read them.

Tenebrae, who seems to have something of an obsession with the issue that initially brought me to respond to an RfC regarding the article - the appropriateness or otherwise of including the name and birthdate of a minor in an article concerning someone else - has since chosen to hand out lectures on the talk page regarding how he/she as a journalist (or someone who claims to be a journalist - obviously I have no way of knowing, though I don't think that Wikipedia policy would consider it significant anyway) has the right to determine article content. And has chosen to disrupt further discussion with off-topic commentary. And I'd further note that Tenebrae hasn't just been lecturing me - he/she has also been badgering other contributors to the RfC, and on the talk page generally.

As I have already made clear in several other places, I have been editing Wikipedia on and off for something like ten years. At one time, with an account, for which I no longer have the password. I only edit occasionally now, as an IP as Wikipedia policy permits. I have come to expect the occasional accusation of sockpuppetry if I ever make any sort of post suggesting that I might know how Wikipedia works, but I've before never been subject to such relentless accusations (in multiple places, few of them appropriate) from someone who's entire justification for doing so seems to be based on me disagreeing with them. If anyone deserves sanctioning here, it is Tenebrae. But whatever, go ahead checkuser me. Make your 'behavioural' assessment. And then tell Tenebrae to find someone else to obsess over, once you reach the only conclusion that the evidence can possibly support. Or change Wikipedia policy so IPs can't edit at all, and that self-proclaimed (but unidentified) 'experts' should be left to concoct biographies by cherry-picking sources and ignoring their substance. The Kloots article is frankly, crap, concocted out of sources that focus almost entirely on the one subject that the article almost fails to mention at all - the reason Kloots has come to public notice. Tenebrae appears to be capable of writing better biographies than this. Indeed, I'm quite sure that Tenebrae would be capable of improving this one, if he/she wasn't using the talk page as a platform to expound on his/her 'expertise', and showed the slightest inclination to actually collaborate with other people. 165.120.15.66 (talk) 19:21, 17 December 2020 (UTC)


 * Methinks thou dost protest too much. It's natural, of course, to deny the charge — but don't try to make this about me. Your anti-Tenebrae rant has nothing to do with the evidence I presented.


 * I would additionally note: You say you've been on Wikipedia "for something like ten years." KyleJoan's oldest posts are from 2008, or 12 years, so the same ballpark. Also, I've seen socks argue with themselves on talk pages in order to try to throw investigators off the scent.--Tenebrae (talk) 21:52, 17 December 2020 (UTC)


 * If you'd presented evidence for anything other than the fact that KyleJoan and I edit on the same day, and that we've disagreed with each other as well as you in the one place we've all intersected, that might be worthy of a response...


 * BTW, for the benefit of anyone wondering whether my suggestion that Tenebrae has a bee in his/her bonnet regarding giving personal details of non-notable minors in articles has any basis, see here: 165.120.15.66 (talk) 22:06, 17 December 2020 (UTC)


 * Attempting to deflect by attacking me over a completely unrelated point doesn't seem like a valid defense, to me.
 * But it reminds me to add this: Both you and KyleJoan share a similar attack sentiment in your responses to other editors, using much the same aggressive language. And "both" of you display the same signature behavior of digging through years of an other editor's interactions in poor attempts to "dig up dirt" on them. That's kind of a tell.
 * (I should also note Winkelvi is a problematic editor who was told by admins not to harass me and others, and who I believe is currently under sockpuppet investigation.)--Tenebrae (talk) 00:57, 20 December 2020 (UTC)
 * that is not correct: Winkelvi was shown by CU (twice) to be unrelated to that investigation. Ivanvector (Talk/Edits) 14:53, 22 December 2020 (UTC)
 * My error; I see now "unrelated to the rest of the group" buried on the page nearly a month into the investigation. The point about Winkelvi being a problematic editor warned by admins not to harass others still stands.--Tenebrae (talk) 15:10, 22 December 2020 (UTC)

As I noted below (probably in the wrong place, apologies) I am operating with a dynamic IP, which my ISP seems to change regularly for no good reason. Since they have now done it again, and since I wish to avoid any suggestion that I am trying to avoid scrutiny, I am thus making the link between the IPs explicit here. I was previously editing as User:165.120.15.66, but am now (not by choice) editing as 109.158.199.97.

As for what Tenebrae has to say, I will make no further comment beyond stating that it appears that since anything whatsoever I do will be construed as 'evidence' by him/her for socking there is no merit in responding. All I ask is that conducting the investigation do so in regard to the actual (lack of) evidence. And then close it down as the waste of time it clearly is. 109.158.199.97 (talk) 01:31, 20 December 2020 (UTC)

Clerk, CheckUser, and/or patrolling admin comments
Would you be alright with disclosing your previous account? Sro23 (talk) 23:41, 18 December 2020 (UTC)


 * As I understand it, Wikipedia policy generally doesn't link registered accounts with IPs, and I'd rather not do so publicly without good reason. If this could be done privately, with assurances that it wouldn't be disclosed further, I'd be more amenable to complying with that. Sorry to be awkward, but I have legitimate reasons not to make public a geolocatable IP connection to the named account, which again, I'd rather not discuss here.


 * Needless to say, the account is not at this time subject to any block or ban, and if I were able to locate my record of the password (which I'm sure I had a year or so ago, though can't currently find, even after having another look) I'd be able to legitimately edit with it - and indeed to confirm (again, in private) that I am both this IP and the account holder. 165.120.15.66 (talk) 23:57, 18 December 2020 (UTC)

165.120.15.66 / 109.158.199.97 please see Help:Reset password for how to recover a lost password, assuming you registered an email address with that account. If there's no email associated with the account, I believe it's impossible to recover. -- RoySmith (talk) 00:46, 24 December 2020 (UTC)
 * This is now the fourth(!!) retaliatory SPI filed related to this whole Amanda Kloots episode. Maybe it's time to start handing out sanctions for bad-faith SPI's because I'm about ready to call it quits. I do find it strange the IP is eager to be investigated by CU yet hesitant to reveal their previous account, but I have a guess who the past account is, and it's like the IP said, inactive for a few years and under no (current) blocks/bans. KyleJoan and the IP sometimes agree and sometimes disagree, and in regards to the IP's suggestion, none of the evidence presented is strong enough to justify violating these editors' privacy. These are clearly two different people. Closing with no action. Sro23 (talk) 16:26, 22 December 2020 (UTC)