Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Lou Sander/Archive

14 May 2012

 * Suspected sockpuppets


 * (added by MastCell; see below)
 * (added by MastCell; see below)
 * (added by MastCell; see below)
 * (added by MastCell; see below)


 * User compare report Auto-generated every hour.

The few articles DCLawyer and Ohio Mailman have edited significantly overlap.

Both accounts inactive since July 2011. Both suddenly reactivate in the last 48hrs. Both to say the same thing, in much the same way, on a Talk page with fewer than 30 watchers.

OM has only edited 11 unique articles; DCL only 34.

Of those 11 he's edited just 3 more than once. Two of the three DCL also edited, with the third ("Requirements analysis") related to DCL's significant-edits by topic area (processes/analysis).


 * Intersect :
 * Analytic_Hierarchy_Process (edits: OM x8, DCL x10)
 * Talk:Analytic_Hierarchy_Process (edits: OM x9, DCL x21)
 * Ann_Coulter (edits: OM x2, DCL x1)
 * Talk:Michael_A._Bellesiles (edits: OM x2, DCL x1)

The impression DCL's remaining edits—virtually all to substubs/stubs—give is attempt to build an edit history using "Random article" feature. (See typical example.) All were one-off* essentially-minor edits.''
 * sole (minimal) successive edits: "Constant Contact" +2 controversy sentences, tweaked own words, +blogref to cite them "Hotel Indonesia" +1 plagiarised sentence, removed apostrophe

-- 92.6.200.56 (talk) 21:42, 14 May 2012 (UTC) Update: Found confirmation OM operated by Lou Sander: (2009) --92.6.200.56 (talk) 20:35, 15 May 2012 (UTC)

 Total edits Lou Sander 	8,000+ (sockmaster) Ohio Mailman 	36 DCLawyer 	97 Good Cop 	107 Skyrocket654 	115 Yaush 	       1200+

The sockmaster's primary account is Lou Sander (8,000+ edits). Key areas of interest include processes/analysis (especially "Analytic Hierarchy Process") and ships (particularly WWII era). The operator of User:Lou Sander is a serial sockpuppeteer who has used multiple accounts disruptively for years.

When a dispute is protracted, or just not sufficiently going his way, out come his socks in favor of his cause. He uses the socks for sustained and severe disruption including fighting to retain biographical content that multiple editors in good standing state is a significant BLP concern, and generally to subvert or distort consensus.

Socks are used to agree with him and to support each other, in articles and discussions, giving the illusion of widespread support for his position. The greater the opposition to what he wants, the more socks he brings.

Attempts to disguise the socking include: attempts to write differently (unsuccessful, once you know what to look for) ~ using different styles in edit summaries or no summary at all ~ assigning different roles to socks (e.g vandalfighter reversion-only) ~ using an established sock to greet a new one as if they were people who knew each other in real life (attempted plausible deniability) ~ etc.

Despite such attempts to evade detection he sooner or later either slips-up (e.g forgets to switch accounts) betraying the account's ownership or when getting his way is sufficiently important will draft in a sock away from its assigned areas/role.

Intersect and interaction analysis between him and DCLawyer / OM / )
 * Lou Sander admits to using sock for vandalism & disruption, by mistake posts as Ohio Mailman
 * uses Ohio Mailman to vandalize an article on a company and in User talk comment passes it off as an "experiment"* for a conference on Analytic Hierarchy Process (favourite article & topic area among accounts)
 * forgets to login as Ohio Mailman on 2nd reply hours later, posting by mistake with Lou Sander account . 3mins later writes "Oops! I just noticed that I previously used "Ohio Mailman," who is a student long gone from this country and Wikipedia".
 * This claim seems to be likely false – he has in any event used it before and since, including as the above shows within last 48hrs, for disruption, to distort consensus etc.
 * interaction analysis specifically showing significant overlap and short times between edits
 * the interactions are as little as 4 minutes apart between admitted sock Ohio Mailman and DCLawyer, where they support each other (first DCLawyer agrees with Ohio Mailman, then OM echoes the agreement and thanks him) at Talk:Analytic Hierarchy Process (2008)


 * Good Cop
 * account inactive since April 2010. Like DCLawyer and Ohio Mailman suddenly reactivated in last 48hrs to say the same thing, same way, about the same article
 * supports other reactivated-sock "There is no BLP problem ... My nose tells me there is a childish effort underway to purge the entire article ... [controversy] needs to be said ... I encourage Ohio Mailman to revert"
 * see vice-versa on a Talk page with several of the family present (DCLawyer, Ohio Mailman, Lou Sander) Ohio Mailman vouching for GC "Good Cop is right"
 * interaction analysis shows significant overlap
 * used by LS for vote stacking an AfD he'd already voted in using LS account


 * Skyrocket654
 * notable overlaps with Lou Sander with time between edits often close together (similarly time/edit overlaps with OM sock )
 * edits fairly obscure plant species "Yerba mate" - Talk page only, in common with Lou Sander who's frequently edited it (x8 to article, x10 to Talkpage)
 * same actions, language, and formatting: arrives to post all-bolded "I strongly agree with Ohio Mailman" as far back as 2007 (compare bottom of recent 2nd section here )
 * another example of use to disrupt consensus comes following LS post: "I've restored the recently-removed NW material". unfortunately 3 users disagreed so LS brought Skyrocket654 to stack the deck with "Restore [Lou Sander's] improperly changed and deleted material"
 * again Lou Sander forgot to log in/out of a sock, this time twice-using Skyrocket654 to edit his user sandbox


 * Yaush
 * Lou Sander likes ships a lot. He has user subpages on them, his userpage says his twitter account's named after one, uploads many pictures and articles  of them
 * Yaush loves ships too. The majority of his mainspace edits are to ship articles.
 * Yaush is a Special Ops Sock: a near 100% reversion-only account. Nevertheless it's drafted for duty by Lou Sanders on rare occasions to disrupt & subvert consensus by supporting him:
 * The 11th mainspace edit Yaush ever made was to add a controversy paragraph to the Michael A. Bellesiles article. The exact same material LS & his many socks are arguing must stay It was within 10 days of LS's last edit to the article
 * Yaush has made few Talkspace edits unrelated to ships/war; yesterday it appeared on Talk:Michael A. Bellesiles insisting with the same language/formatting as the other socks  (see overlapping times )


 * Further Lou Sander examples of sock use to disrupt, stack, subvert (using DCLawyer)
 * interaction analysis
 * vote stacking in WP:Requested move:
 * Lou Sander starts a section proposing an article be renamed to Chairman.
 * But another editor opposes. So, and within 12hrs of LS proposing it, LS uses DCLawyer to support
 * in a favourite articles' RfC (on if citation required in lead) DCLawyer is used to say yes it does
 * an hour later Lou Sander posts, note the attempt to evade detection by using indirect language, ostensibly to stress value of references in a general way, but in effect to say yes it does need a citation
 * Lou Sander insisting something must be kept: "Neumark and Wachter's rigorous studies" but multiple other editors disagreed, cue DCLawyer's arrival to say: "N&W are serious labor economists who wrote a serious book"
 * DCLawyer account trying to backtrack after other editors start asking questions when he's caught out talking as if he regularly edits an article he hasn't touched (LS had)


 * In addition to the chronological and topic overlap, and socks supporting each other, the user has a few style tells. These are not given here for obvious reasons. If the case is not strong enough they are available on request to SPI Clerks or others, privately if necessary.
 * If further evidence to tie the socks to Lou Sander is required please ask -- 92.6.200.56 (talk) 20:39, 15 May 2012 (UTC)

Comments by other users
''Accused parties may also comment/discuss in this section below. See Defending yourself against claims.''


 * There is definitely something odd going on here., , and are basically screaming "alternate accounts", and they've teamed up extensively to support each other on Analytic Hierarchy Process, a low-profile article of particular interest to . Lou Sander has admitted to using , although the account apparently belongs to an acquaintance of his . It's unclear at a glance whether the rest of these are actual sockpuppets or simply a group of individuals coordinating their edits, but something is clearly not right and checkuser attention would be very helpful. The accounts are currently being used in concert in a totally inappropriate manner. Please include  in any checkuser; this account has a similar userpage and contrib history and has been used mainly to support the other accounts in edit wars at Analytic Hierarchy Process. MastCell Talk 22:01, 15 May 2012 (UTC)
 * At the Bellesiles Talk page at the end of the "Arming America controversy" section, there is a veritable Greek chorus: "Restore the deleted material" (emphasis in original). I think I called it a mantra at BLPN.--Bbb23 (talk) 22:15, 15 May 2012 (UTC)

Clerk, CheckUser, and/or patrolling admin comments
Compliments for the clear evidence. Despite the claim of dissociation, there is clearly abuse of multiple accounts and grounds for checking. Skyrocket654 is. However, the following are ✅ socks of Lou Sander: is a somewhat match, and I'd say it's a sock. is technically ❌, and from my perspective, I don't see how it could be operated by the same individual. WilliamH (talk) 01:16, 16 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Based on contributions, Skyrocket654 looks like a sock to me, so along with the confirmed and likely socks, they've been blocked and tagged. Because of the long-term, deliberate socking, I've also indeffed the master. ​—DoRD (talk)​ 01:47, 16 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Although I must reiterate that I do not consider a technical connection between Lou Sander and possible, I'd say there was a recent element of meatpuppetry. In addition to the obvious topic overlap, Yaush last edited Michael A. Bellesiles almost two years ago; I find it difficult to accept that his recent edits to it were made on his own volition, and have a strong suspicion that the two know each other. WilliamH (talk) 14:42, 16 May 2012 (UTC)

01 June 2012

 * Suspected sockpuppets




 * User compare report Auto-generated every hour.

has operated a number of alternate accounts targeting our article on (see previous SPI). Today a new account,, appeared on this relatively obscure article to participate in an edit-war, with a pre-existing knowledge of our processes for redirecting (e.g. ), formatting, etc. unusual for a truly new editor. Given the history of extensive sockpuppetry on this BLP, and to save everyone a lot of difficulty, I'd simply like to confirm that this new account is not technically linked to or to, who was identified in the previous SPI report as a likely meatpuppet. MastCell Talk 21:35, 1 June 2012 (UTC)

Comments by other users
''Accused parties may also comment/discuss in this section below. See Defending yourself against claims.''

Clerk, CheckUser, and/or patrolling admin comments

 * CheckUser is not particularly helpful, but based on the behaviour, I'd reckon that's him. WilliamH (talk) 21:58, 1 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the quick response. As I am involved in editing the article, could you or another admin act on that conclusion? MastCell Talk 23:07, 1 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Blocked and tagged. WilliamH (talk) 23:40, 1 June 2012 (UTC)


 * Closing  S ven M anguard   Wha?  23:49, 1 June 2012 (UTC)

Suspected sockpuppets



 * User compare report Auto-generated every hour.
 * Editor interaction utility

I believe sockpuppetry is occurring on Talk:Jared Taylor.
 * Both of Sander and IP seem to indent to the same place each time on the talk page. (e.g. indent to each other) So frequently that since the IP does not sign their posts, it looks as if their paired comments are just one comment.
 * Artoffugue edited very few times and stopped shortly before the IP started, their writing style is very similar to the IP.
 * Ztaqev2 edited only 3 times, all three by posting semi-protected edit requests requesting removal of the term "white supremacist" from pages.
 * Pingu4581 is used infrequently; first two edits on return as observed by Rockypedia were to blank talk page and drop in a support comment for Sander's position that is eerily similar to the IP's comments.
 * Zaostao is blocked for severe racism, and could also be the source of the sockpuppets. I do note that Mr. Sander is a longstanding editor, but the patterns are odd. Morty C-137 (talk) 00:20, 10 August 2017 (UTC)

Comments by other users
''Accused parties may also comment/discuss in this section below. See Defending yourself against claims.''

Clerk, CheckUser, and/or patrolling admin comments

 * The evidence is too weak. No motive, no diffs of similar edits. I am not convinced that those accounts are sockpuppets. Case closed.  Vanjagenije  (talk)  00:48, 10 August 2017 (UTC)