Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Martintg/Archive

Evidence submitted by Igny
Hi, I believe that one of the topic-banned WP:EEML members used a SPA and IPs to distort the consensus at Talk:Occupation of the Baltic States. Based on previous contributions to the Baltic related articles, I believe that either User:Martintg or User:Vecrumba or both tried to circumvent their topic bans to help out their fellow EEML member User:Sander Säde. I do not know how to properly submit a case to check three possible suspects (Martintg, Vecrumba, and Sander Säde), so I filed it under section for Martintg.

Just to clarify. After Sander accused me in not heeding the consensus (or lack thereof) that was like a double insult to me to use a SPA to destroy the consensus which was building at the mentioned request to move. (and no, Sander, lack of consensus to move is not a failure to move). This case was not meant to be an insult, but rather an opportunity to clear your names of a justified suspicion. (Igny (talk) 21:18, 31 March 2010 (UTC))

Re: Vecrumba. I really do not care if you view it as a personal attack. It is not, even if you personally are not guilty of sockpuppeting. I do not care who of you used ISerovian, and I will not apologize for one of you using a SPA to keep the article's POV title. (Igny (talk) 16:48, 1 April 2010 (UTC))

Comments by accused parties
See Defending yourself against claims.

I would like to point out that this fishing expedition was preceded by two failed requested moves by Igny, in-between which he repeatedly attempted to unilaterally move the article to his preferred name and was subsequently warned by an administrator. Administrator closing the last RM especially pointed out that he based the decision on arguments and not votes.

I have never made any sockpuppets and never will. I have not requested anyone's help inside or outside Wikipedia - nor did I need it. I believe ISerovian is the same anon from those two IP's; however, as he/IP's did not double vote, I fail to see the violation.

As Igny did not notify anyone of this investigation, I will so do myself.
 * -- Sander Säde 07:50, 31 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Igny, apparently you haven't even realized there is a possibility that ISerovian is none of us. You have been getting so fixated in your view of "POV title", that you are pushing your preferred title at any cost. -- Sander Säde 17:12, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

Nothing to do with me. I'm busy with real life and have reduced my active involvement with Wikipedia as of February having commenced some post graduate study. I don't know who this IServoian is or who these IPs are. Had I been involved in this move request I would have found it a difficult choice. As the closing admin said, there were good arguments on both sides. Sander Säde had strong arguments and voted against the move, so did Jaan Pärn and he voted for the move. They are both Estonians and I respect them both, I even gave Jaan the Estonian Award of National Merit, you can see it on his user page. Termer had strong arguments against but voted weak support, while M.K voted emphatically against. Illythr voted weak support but couldn't see the how the new name is any more neutral or even different than the old one. Clearly there isn't any consensus even amongst the Baltic editors. At the end of the day, being a Tasmanian Baltophile, I don't think I would have taken a position one way or another on this because of this non-consensus amongst these Baltic editors. --Martin (talk) 08:58, 31 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Igny opened a move debate, no consensus. He doesn't accept the result and moves the article unilaterally and again. This results in a warning. Then Igny opens another move request, again no consensus. The guy is so convinced of the "truth" that he can't actually accept that others may have differing opinions, which he brands as "nationalist POV". Charging around, move warring, branding opinions as "nationalist POV" and believing that anyone who doesn't accept his viewpoint must be a sock is no way to build consensus. Igny should take a cold shower and re-evaluate his approach. Being combative does not assist in consensus building. --Martin (talk) 20:51, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

I am busy with my 98 year old mother in and out of the hospital and the nursing home who yesterday told me she wants to be left alone to die. I don't have time for this crap, which is the main reason I have not filed an appeal of my topic ban as this sort of crap (see also the feeding frenzy attacking Biophys) is all I continue to see regarding "discourse" on how to represent the Soviet legacy in the Eastern European space. And I have never engaged in sockpuppets, meatpuppets, etc. though I have been routinely accused of doing so by those who do it themselves. More of bad faith attacks on editors to push POV. Nothing has improved since my topic hiatus, apparently.  PЄTЄRS VЄСRUМВА  ►talk 13:09, 31 March 2010 (UTC)
 * I invite Igny to reconsider and retract this personal attack.  PЄTЄRS VЄСRUМВА  ►talk 13:24, 31 March 2010 (UTC)
 * "Justified suspicion" based on what? Your umbrella of "justified" suspicion allows you to attack anyone who agrees with someone else to disagree with your personal version of history.  PЄTЄRS VЄСRUМВА  ►talk 16:41, 1 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Notice, not caring "who of us" used, as if only collusionists would disagree with Igny. Crap and gall with heaping helpings of self-righteousness, more of the same old, alas. I take it, Igny, this means my invitation for reconciliation is rejected. I was quite prepared to retract my statement regarding "crap" in kind.  PЄTЄRS VЄСRUМВА  ►talk 17:11, 1 April 2010 (UTC)
 * P.S. As for the title being "POV," Igny, you'll have to wait for my topic ban to expire to have my (fully sourced, and from sources on the actual topic = WP:RS, not dictionaries = WP:OR, not books about the subject in general but not the Baltics in particular = WP:OR) response.  PЄTЄRS VЄСRUМВА  ►talk 21:13, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

And to Russavia, based on your actions here and at Biophys, I retract my earlier support for your being largely topic unbanned. More crap calling myself and others web brigadiers. Clearly you have closed the book on your constructive phase.  PЄTЄRS VЄСRUМВА  ►talk 01:52, 2 April 2010 (UTC)


 * Can we please finish up this festering sore? Not dealing with these attacks (in my opinion) swiftly only encourages more in the future. Thank you.  PЄTЄRS VЄСRUМВА  ►talk 04:26, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

Comments by Russavia
It should be noted that the two IPs which Igny has presented above are most certainly User:Martintg. Martintg lives in, and edits from, Launceston, Tasmania, and uses a Bigpond IP (from memory from other situations). Bigpond routes all Tasmanian traffic through Melbourne and this correlates with the location of the IPs Note that Martintg is currently under a one year topic ban, which means that his edits  are most certainly in violation of his topic ban - an extension to two years topic ban, after a one year ban from the site does appear to be in order here. --Russavia I'm chanting as we speak 20:58, 1 April 2010 (UTC)


 * Considering that a certain user reported privacy violation based on use of his first name (which he had posted himself to his user page), I suggest you remove all private data from your comment - or just ask it to be oversighted. Also, one of the IP's is located in a residential suburb - almost certainly not rerouted, but a home located in that area. -- Sander Säde 21:15, 1 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Nice try guys (Sander and Colchicum). It is a good try, but not good enough. But I suggest that you all go and read WP:OUTING. In particular it says "If an editor has previously posted their own personal information but later redacted it, their wishes should be respected, though reference to self-disclosed information is not outing." which is as a result of ARBMAC2. I have not provided any information that Martintg, he himself, has not already provided. For example, if one were to do a google search for "martintg launceston wiki" one will get several WP:MIRROR results of Martintg's userpage, where he himself disclosed his location, i.e. "Resident of Launceston, Northern Tasmania, Australia. Started using Wiki in 2005". When one edits their userpage (or any Wikipedia page for that matter), they are met with a notice that reads "If you do not want your writing to be edited, used, and redistributed at will, then do not submit it here."


 * Furthermore, one also gets results such as Meetup/Melbourne_9, where Martintg discloses of his own free will, "I'm based in Launceston, but I will happen to be in Melbourne on Saturday 2nd and Sunday 3rd of February, it would be really great if you could bring forward the Meetup to that weekend. Any time Saturday afternoon/evening or anytime Sunday, any place, would suit this Launcestonian". Just because Martintg has request his userpage to be deleted, it does not stop the fact that this information was placed on his userpage for full viewing by users (and internet search engine spiders), and one does not forget information like that. Additionally, the userpage was not removed as a result of any WP:OVERSIGHT action, but the full history is still available right there in the history for any admin to peruse and verify for themselves. There is NO outing, or posting of private information, for Martintg did so himself.


 * As to Sander's assertion on Bigpond. This link and this link shows that DNS settings for Tasmania are clearly in Victoria. Frankston and Hawthorn are obviously the data centres/exchange that Martintg's data for that session were being routed through. To check this, all the investigator for this case has to do is to check what IP address Martintg has been using as of late, and use the tools we have available to us, to see that what I say is correct, and everything is merely deflection by fellow WP:EEML web brigadiers from what appears as Martintg being caught violating his one year topic ban. --Russavia I'm chanting as we speak 22:30, 1 April 2010 (UTC)


 * Sigh. Bigpond is the biggest ISP in Australia, as Russavia well knows. So Russavia is now a network expert claiming  "Bigpond routes all Tasmanian traffic through Melbourne" based upon the location of Bigpond's DNS?  LOL. I redacted my location from my user page because of off-wiki harassment, I don't appreciate Russavia disrespecting my wish for privacy. I'm quite happy for a Check User be done. I just ask that when the results come through that both Igny and Russavia are appropriately sanctioned under WP:DIGWUREN for this battleground nonsense. --Martin (talk) 04:05, 2 April 2010 (UTC)
 * PS, the dates of these IP edits, on the 17th and 19th confirms it wasn't me. I wasn't even in the country, I was overseas on a three week vacation, returning on the 19th. I can fax documentary evidence of this to a verified Wikipedia representative. --Martin (talk) 09:00, 2 April 2010 (UTC)


 * To any admin. Please note that in the WP:EEML email archive, email "20090804-0059" Martintg announces to his web brigadiers that he has voted anonymously at Articles for deletion/Russian influence operations in Estonia (2nd nomination). . So such things by Martintg are not unusual. The cited examples by Igny may or may not be Martintg, but that is the entire point of this SPI - there is a chance that it is Martintg, and his membership of the EEML only demonstrates that he (and other EEML members) fart on WP policies and practices. If it's not him, then nothing is done. If it is him, then he can be dealt with for violating the topic ban. It is simple as that. --Russavia I'm chanting as we speak 13:12, 3 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Also, Martintg also announced to the EEML in email "20090622-1128" that as a result of him possibly receiving a topic ban for another matter, that he would likely assume a new identity, edit in other areas for a few months, and try to gain adminship, as his "identity" had according to him, outlived its usefulness. Those are Martintg's own words, and demonstrates that he has no regard for WP policies and the project in general, and that this SPI should also be looked at carefully. --Russavia I'm chanting as we speak 13:17, 3 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Russavia. You are violating privacy information rules again. Please stop. Also, as Martin did not double vote then, what exactly is the problem? That he dared to have an opinion which differed from yours? Gee, that must be a serious violation. -- Sander Säde  18:24, 3 April 2010 (UTC)


 * Didn't I just say above I'm perfectly happy for a CU to proceed, go for it, just let me know where to fax my evidence that I was overseas at the time. Be warned however that in email "20090606-0919" the EEML planned "Project Checkuser", an insidious plot to infiltrate the ranks of the Checkuser corps for the EEML's own pernicious purposes of corrupting the very fabric of the Wikipedia universe, so Russavia may not accept the result claiming one of you could very well be one of us! Seriously, this kind of battleground lunacy on Wikipedia has to stop, and I hope it will soon. As I said above, I have moved on to more productive things to do with my time, such as post-grad study. I don't appreciate Russavia's violating my privacy here and will be asking for oversighting once this is done and dusted. --Martin (talk) 19:52, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

Comments by Colchicum
Leaving aside the merits of evidence (to my knowledge, Melbourne is home to a decent number of Internet users and Baltic expatriates), as this is the third time Russavia is trying to out a Wikipedian (previous blocks of 18:21, 15 September 2008, and of 17:59, 4 December 2009 ), I think permaban for him is in order. This is not to be taken lightly. His battleground behavior resumed immediately after his return from a lengthy topic ban. Colchicum (talk) 21:39, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

Clerk, patrolling admin and checkuser comments
Requested by --Russavia (talk) 16:59, 21 April 2010 (UTC) Absolutely no evidence of wrong-doing, deception, or even socking. The two listed IPs claim to be one another, and neither posted in the only place ISerovian did, which was the poll, later. Checkuser is not for fishing and that's clearly what this is. This is all just hunches and suspicions, most obviously due to the fact that it's aimed at three individuals because there isn't a shred of actual evidence provided. ~ Amory ( u •  t  •  c ) 05:09, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

Evidence submitted by Petri Krohn
Martintg's Wikipedia activity shows a pattern of following my edits and editing the same or related articles. Based on this pattern, I believe certain edits were made by Martintg or a meatpuppet, in violation of his topic ban on "national, cultural, or ethnic disputes within Eastern Europe". I will not reveal the articles in question, as this would reveal personal information. I will send the evidence by email to the checkuser mailing list.

A related arbitration enforcement request on Martintg has been filed at Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 21:42, 1 November 2010 (UTC) Petri Krohn (talk) 21:42, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

Comments by accused parties
Is this SPI request really sincere? Surely Petri Krohn's edit history would reveal the identity of the articles he wishes to remain confidential. --Martin (talk) 02:35, 2 November 2010 (UTC)

Comments by other users

 * Comment by Collect

Sorry - no actual evidence presented = a very poor basis for fishing expeditions. Collect (talk) 23:53, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

Clerk, patrolling admin and checkuser comments

 * - We aren't anglers. NativeForeigner Talk/Contribs 04:42, 4 November 2010 (UTC)
 * No suspected socks, and no cu, makes nothing left to do. -- DQ  (t)  (e)  11:37, 4 November 2010 (UTC)