Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Mcelite/Archive

Suspected sockpuppets



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The common thread is tendentious editing to move biographies to unsourced (and sometimes odd) categories of race/ethnicity. While multiple ethnicities are involved, the most ongoing disruption has been to Native American and African American categories. The Indigenous wikiproject had to spend much of the spring cleaning up this weird stuff. The most recent sock looks to have been created to push back against the cleanup efforts.

The primary disruption is from the first two accounts. But first some background on the sleeper account, Torontoconfidential. You can skip to June 24 if checkuser pings on Torontoconfidential and behavioural isn't needed for that one.

The IPs have ranged quite widely, so I'm thinking we're going to need to go on behavioural patterns here. It's possible checkuser will not be helpful, so I am on the fence about checkuser for all of these.

First the sleeper account (Torontoconfidential) or an IP makes the initial change. Sometimes there is a "source" added, but it is unusable - an unrelated instagram meme: or a fan's speculation on a blog - or an article or video that doesn't source the content. Then comes the incivil revert-warring by the named accounts to preserve these changes. Torontoconfidential has never posted on talk, just planted the unsourced categories and unusable sources:,, ,, , , that Mcelite then edit-warred to defend:,.

Some editors spotted the Torontoconfidential socking but tried to help retain Mcelite as an editor anyway. Mcelite did not admit the socking, but said he had "made mistakes when younger" and implied the behaviour would stop. However, after a member of the Indigenous wikiproject asked him about troubling emails she'd received, either from him or someone he appears to have given her email to,
 * June 24 - July 1, Mcelite wiped the discussions about these issues from his user talk, as: "cleanup"
 * June 26: new account Seminolegirl94 created, with a username creepily similar to an editor who had tried to help him:. New account edits for a while to become autoconfirmed, then the same disruption and incivility not only resumed, but escalated, from both accounts. When warned for the behaviour, Seminolegirl94 says, "Allow me to knock you off your high horse" Mcelite, back to edit-warring despite having agreed to stop, falsely states sources have been added and (in this edit summary) calls other editors' requests for sources, "childish."

Both main accounts then resume the pattern of moving bios to Native American categories without sufficient, or any, sourcing, both falsely stating a kept category was merged, or falsely/weirdly stating that the BLP never made the ethnicity claim (no, it doesn't make sense):


 * Mcelite on Rozonda Thomas: Adds descendant category, no sourcing:, revert wars to preserve change:, . Still no sources, but upgrades BLP to full Native American category:, after reverted and agreeing on talk to stop, waits a while then starts over with unsourced descendant category again:. Again agrees to stop. Then new account is created:
 * Seminolegirl94 account arrives to add descendant category again:. After being warned,
 * Mcelite returns to revert to Seminolegirl94's version:, reverts again, complete with personal attacks and no sourcing:"(it's properly cited now you're being childish)".

Both main accounts have followed this same editing pattern on over a dozen other articles now; over two or three dozen if we include the unsourced BLPs who were moved into new categories over the years with the logged-out IP assists. Here are just some highlights with quoted text where the same phrasings and typing styles are evident:


 * Mcelite on Beyoncé, Reverts without discussion to put BLP in Native American cats without sourcing: ,
 * Seminolegirl94 arrives on Beyoncé with same voice and pattern: ("category will be merged due to vote"), ("Category:American people who self-identify as being of Native American descent not cited in any sources")
 * Mcelite on Lolo Jones, with same false rationale:"(none of the sources state self identifying and that category is going away)"

Though user has made some efforts to disguise their voice there are still many, Similar edit summaries, abbreviations, rationales and phrasings:

Focus on obscure factoid and phrase, "Five Dollar Indians"
 * Mcelite: Five-Dollar Indians., "paid five dollars", "and of course the $5 Indian (white ppl that paid to get on rolls)"
 * Seminolegirl94: in one of this account's first posts to talk: "these five dollar Indians" with blue eyes, "white ppl (sorry to other editors that are white) largely created this problem by lying, $5 Dollar Indian and all that trash."

c/e for copyedit; "ethnicity is not why they're notable":
 * Mcelite: Removes sourced text, just says, "c/e", (c/e with citation), ("her being born in Vietnam is not why she's notable")
 * Seminolegirl94, on 5th day of editing with new account: (c/e "his ethnicity isn't why he's notable")

b/c for "because":
 * Mcelite: "I know youtube is not preferred b/c videos can be manipulated."
 * Seminolegirl94 "I know tribal enrollments quiet well and just b/c the tribe isn't jumping up down screaming"

Typing style: if you look over their talk contribs, with only one exception I saw, both accounts never make a space after the end of their last sentence and their signature: Mcelite:,, ; Seminolegirl94: , ,

Insults towards certain groups, for instance Cherokee people:
 * Seminolegirl94: "The Dawes Rolls are an embarrassment... a pride complex I've really only that in Cherokee"
 * Mcelite redirected Five dollar Indian to The Dawes Rolls the census list used to enroll Cherokee people ).

Interaction tools and recent contribs will show additional overlaps, but I think the quacking is extremely loud. If you want any more diffs or explanations, just let me know. Due to the pattern of quieting down then just resuming the disruption, I figure it's time to deal with this. Initially the editing from Mcelite was on weekdays, the others on weekends. Then it switched. Again, no idea if he got sloppy enough for Checkuser to help.

Had I not been editing a few of these articles myself (if nothing else to do the cleanup on vandalism and category weirdness) I would have taken care of it. As this is a field I edit in, here we are. - CorbieV  ☊ ☼ 22:42, 9 September 2019 (UTC)

Comments by other users
''Accused parties may also comment/discuss in this section below. See Defending yourself against claims.''

Clerk, CheckUser, and/or patrolling admin comments
Seminolegirl94 is ✅. Torontoconfidential is ❌. Blocked and tagged the two confirmed accounts. Closing.--Bbb23 (talk) 23:45, 9 September 2019 (UTC)

Suspected sockpuppets



 * Tools: Editor interaction utility • Interaction Timeline • User compare report Auto-generated every hour.

I initially wrote up this report on WillieP100, who I just realized made it clear he's running two active accounts in this diff where he edits his comments from JWilliams with WillieP: and then signs back in as JWilliams to again edit the same comment:. So, two active socks, right there.

Looks like Mcelite is back. Doubt checkuser will help as he was a grad student who has probably relocated by now. But I don't think we need it. The main focus is again on Black Indians in the United States. Last time it was to include all Black people who self-identify as having any degree of Native American ancestry (or even a suspected distant ancestor) as simply Native American people. Then to use socks and IP socks to edit war. At the same time, Mcelite made insulting edits and personal attacks to put down Native American tribes and members of tribes, especially the Cherokee, who he really had it in for.

This POV push is to add the fringe theory that African American people are the real Native Americans and that the people everyone else knows as Native Americans in the United States are actually... Asian. This fringe theory is popular with some radical groups, including militias. With these two accounts, he has added the same fringe theory to African Americans (as JWilliams) and Black Indians in the United States (as WillieP).

Both new accounts have been editing aggressively, adding unsourced and inadequately-sourced fringe content to right this great wrong, as Mcelite used to do. When reverted he reverts right back. When I showed up a little while ago he suddenly got offline. Probably because I was one of the people that got him blocked before, and he knows I know his patterns. Mcelite's pattern for years was to edit war right up to almost being blocked. Then he would lay low for days, weeks or even months, then start right back up with the disruption.

Editing patterns
 * Again, as with the other accounts, he leaves no space between final period of talk text and signature:
 * JWilliams835 at Talk:African Americans
 * WillieP100:
 * Lots of diffs of this patttern in initial report for McElite and Seminole girl, but here are two:Mcelite: sock Seminoleirl99:


 * Like with other sock accounts he goes back multiple times to edit talk comments and article text to make adjustments to language:
 * JWilliams
 * WillieP100
 * JWilliams again, showing use of both accounts on same page, in use at same time
 * WillieP100

Is this IP a proxy? User:41.66.202.101 It reads Ghana, but fits the sockdrawer's pattern and is blacklisted by some sites. The edit summary fits the militia groups I mention: "Black "Indians" have lived in modern day North and South America for thousands of years and they are indigenous aboriginals, alongside the more popular Asian-looking natives. They cannot be said to have African American heritage because they were natives to the continent long before slavery of proper Africans and USA began." 


 * Mcelite also had the pattern of using IPs to support him in his edit warring, WP:LOUTSOCK, claiming they were other people who just happened to sound just like him, and that he was reverting "their" versions. Also, like Mc, sock WillieP is claiming he was engaging on talk when he wasn't. "restoring section with changes from other users, see talk"

text written with the Willie P account in his sandbox, But posted at African American with the JWilliams account
 * Mcelite's edits on all the Black Indian articles, including deleted contribs, were very focused on "blood" and genetics, including misrepresenting sources. Note this unsourced addition to the African Americans article by the JWilliams account, with the familiar, "some scholars have asserted" language:


 * Naming of these two socks also follows name plus number pattern he used for confirmed sock

OK, that should be more than enough. - CorbieVreccan  ☊ ☼ 00:40, 17 June 2021 (UTC)

Comments by other users
''Accused parties may also comment/discuss in this section below. See Defending yourself against claims.''

Clerk, CheckUser, and/or patrolling admin comments

 * Both blocked as part of Sockpuppet_investigations/CoosaGA1. Bradv said the technical evidence wasn't much of a match, and while I see the shared POV I don't see convincing evidence that these are Mcelite. Closed without (further) action. GeneralNotability (talk) 02:40, 17 June 2021 (UTC)

Suspected sockpuppets

 * ( originally filed under this user)


 * Tools: Editor interaction utility • Interaction Timeline • User compare report Auto-generated every hour.

All confirmed by CU, recording here for tracking purposes. – bradv  🍁  01:52, 17 June 2021 (UTC)

Comments by other users
''Accused parties may also comment/discuss in this section below. See Defending yourself against claims.''


 * Sockpuppet investigations/Mcelite looks to be related to this case. BilCat (talk) 02:03, 17 June 2021 (UTC)


 * I don't see much of a technical connection, but if the behaviour matches I'm fine with them being merged. I'll ask a clerk to have a look before this gets archived. – bradv  🍁  02:08, 17 June 2021 (UTC)

Clerk, CheckUser, and/or patrolling admin comments

 * . Closing – bradv  🍁  01:53, 17 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Some shared POV with Mcelite, but I don't see convincing evidence that these are actually the same person. Archiving. GeneralNotability (talk) 02:38, 17 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Per request from here, merging the CoosaGA1 case into Mcelite GeneralNotability (talk) 01:56, 18 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Thanks, I've retagged these all as well. – bradv  🍁  02:08, 18 June 2021 (UTC)