Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Physo172/Archive

Suspected sockpuppets
Same very specific interest as User:Physo172 and User:Internetexpert41 in the Ottoman empire, particularly, daughters of sultans. Recreation of deleted articles Draft:Beyhan Sultan (daughter of Ibrahim) and Atike Sultan (daughter of Ibrahim), all three edited Template:Daughters of the Ottoman Sultans. Admins, see Special:DeletedContributions/Physo172 and Special:DeletedContributions/Internetexpert41 for more articles this sockpuppeteer/sockpuppet created on the subject of daughters of royal families in Ottoman empire, a narrow interest shared by Dp210. Liz Read! Talk! 15:18, 25 February 2022 (UTC)
 * I guess this case doesn't scream "Urgent!" Liz Read! Talk! 22:45, 1 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Really, not even a clerk has looked at this case in a week? You guys must be backlogged. Liz Read! Talk! 02:50, 5 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Well, you're the expert, Girth Summit, I appreciate you taking a look at this case. It's just a very, very specific interest in common. It's hard to believe that we have more than one editor who wants to write about the daughters of Ottoman sultans. But I'll keep an eye on things, thank you. Liz Read! Talk! 05:37, 15 March 2022 (UTC)

Comments by other users
''Accused parties may also comment/discuss in this section below. See Defending yourself against claims.''

Clerk, CheckUser, and/or patrolling admin comments

 * Hi, I've taken a look at this, and I do see the similarities you're talking about in terms of editing interests. There are some differences however - the earlier accounts were all mobile web editors, for example - and from a quick look the drafts appear quite different. I personally wouldn't be comfortable blocking based on what I can see. I'd suggest treating as a new user, and dealing with any disruption if and when it appears. Best   Girth Summit  (blether)  17:19, 13 March 2022 (UTC)

Suspected sockpuppets

 * ( original case name)

The original account, Dp210, was blocked from article space on 1 July 2022 for persistent creation of unsourced articles, including on members of the Ottoman royal family. The sock account, Dt.022, began editing on 31 July 2022 and is creating articles on members of the Ottoman royal family, including titles that were already draftified when created by the original account. The new articles are not unsourced, but this appears to be an attempt to game the system by block evasion. Robert McClenon (talk) 22:46, 4 August 2022 (UTC)
 * The articles are inadequately sourced in the same way as Joe Roe discussed on the talk page of the partially blocked user. Gevherhan Sultan (daughter of Murad IV) appears to be exactly the same, with the same incomplete references, as Draft:Gevherhan Sultan (daughter of Murad IV), which was in article space before it was moved to draft space.  The only difference is which account created the article, and that may not be any real difference.  Robert McClenon (talk) 00:11, 5 August 2022 (UTC)

Comments by other users

 * Accused parties may also comment/discuss in this section below. See Defending yourself against claims.


 * Agree. I agree. The user continue to create stub pages, without sources, and to write an endless sequence of changes without sources and / or certainly fake or denied for some time. Stop it. Sira Aspera (talk) 08:07, 5 August 2022 (UTC)

Clerk, CheckUser, and/or patrolling admin comments

 * - suspicious behaviour, please CU to confirm. It's worth noting that Dp210 was previously reported at Sockpuppet_investigations/Physo172/Archive. That case was closed with no action because while they had recreated many of the same articles, the content was significantly different. I had some reservations about that close, although I did not voice them at the time. According to this ANI thread, there were concerns that Physo172 had been creating hoaxes. The content of Dp210's articles differed not only in terms of writing style but in terms of facts, which suggests hoaxing. This was not only the case for the articles created by Dp210 vs. Physo172, but also Physo172 vs. their CU-confirmed socks.For example, compare Beyhan_Sultan_(daughter_of_Ibrahim) by Dp210 to the versions by Physo172 and Internetexpert41 . Physo claims that Her father betrothed her to Hezarpare Ahmed Pasha... Her brother married her to Uzun Mehmed Pasha in 1666... Following their marriage she gave birth to a daughter in 1666. Later she gave birth a son on 29 August 1668 and then she gave birth to her last child a daughter on 27 November 1670... Beyhan married Biyiliki Mehmed Pasha In 1684, while Internetexpert claims that In 1647, she was firstly married to Hezarpare Ahmed Pasha... She was secondly married to Uzun Ibrahim Pasha probably in 1651 or 1652... After ten years of their marriage she probably gave birth to son in 1662 who later died two months after on 27 September 1662...she thirdly married Bıyıklı Mustafa Pasha on 13 March 1691. However, no children come from this marriage., and Dp210 states that She was firstly married at the age of one to Küçük Hasan Pasha... In 1659 she married Uzun Ibrahim Pasha... She was married fourthly in 1689 to Bıyıklı Mustafa Pasha. With him she had a son Sultanzade Hüseyn Bey(1590-1754) Entirely different dates, names, and children. I'm pretty much convinced that Dp210 is a sock of Physo172, that all their articles are likely hoaxes, and that everything ought to be G5'd. If a CU feels that it would be worthwhile, some log data from the Physo172 case should be available for comparison, but I'm not sure how useful that information would be two years after the fact. Thanks, Spicy (talk) 03:52, 5 August 2022 (UTC)
 * - -- RoySmith (talk) 04:06, 5 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Dt.022 is ✅ to Dp210; I'm blocking and tagging on that basis. There's no historical data for Physo172.  If you felt the behavioral connection was strong enough, I'd have no objection to you dual-tagging or whatever makes sense, but I can't give you anything from CU to support that. -- RoySmith (talk) 04:15, 5 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Thanks. - please merge this case with Sockpuppet investigations/Physo172. They are editing in the same (obscure) topic areas, have recreated many of the same articles, have a similar incomprehensible referencing style (they like adding sfns that don't go anywhere), and are apparently all creating hoaxes. Another example of dubious/hoax information in articles, just for reference -
 * Internetexpert41 :
 * Claims subject died in 1697
 * Claims Fazli Pasha died of lung cancer in 1657
 * Claims that subject was buried in "Turhan Hatice Sultan Mosque"
 * Dt.022
 * Claims subject died in 1682
 * Claims Fazli Pasha was executed in 1657
 * Claims that subject was buried in "Yeni Valide Mosque"
 * I was able to access the book The Intimate Life of an Ottoman Statesman, which is cited in this article to support the statement that She was married in 1645 to Silahtar Yusuf Pasha, who was executed by orders of her father in 1646. Page 231 says absolutely nothing of the sort - it is about the death of Kaya Sultan. The book mentions "Fatma Sultan" several times, but according to page 6, this is in reference to Fatma Sultan (daughter of Ahmed I), and not the subject of this article.
 * Thanks, Spicy (talk) 06:10, 5 August 2022 (UTC)
 * So merged. Also nuked contribs. Closing. --  Tamzin  [ cetacean needed ] (she&#124;they&#124;xe) 07:00, 5 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I updated the tags. I'm also going to request locks for the recently active accounts - Dp210 is indeffed on trwiki and there is a history of cross-wiki disruption. Spicy (talk) 07:07, 5 August 2022 (UTC)
 * G5s now done where applicable for Dp210 as well. Given the sourcing/maybe-hoaxing concerns you've raised, you may want to take a look at these 5 Dp210 creations that were (barely) not G5-eligible. Some may merit AfD/PROD.  --  Tamzin  [ cetacean needed ] (she&#124;they&#124;xe) 07:55, 5 August 2022 (UTC)
 * There's two articles where your edits are the only ones preventing CSD G5 deletion—specifically Gevherhan Sultan (daughter of Selim I) and Gevher Müluk Sultan (daughter of Bayezid II). Would you like me to delete them? --  Tamzin  [ cetacean needed ] (she&#124;they&#124;xe) 08:20, 5 August 2022 (UTC)
 * @ Tamzin In general those two pages are fine, not all but parte yes. The other deleted pages also had some useful and true info that I am recovering and implement in their right place. If possible leave them, I clean them up and they will be fine. If they need to be deleted, leave me a day to write down the useful info to implement elsewhere and then delete them as well. Sira Aspera (talk) 08:38, 5 August 2022 (UTC)
 * @ Tamzin I suspect he has tried again with a new account: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:ANGELA_BIDOIA&redlink=1 Same behavior, fake change storm or. unlikely to the Ottoman dynasty, stubs without sources, pages on non-existent characters passed off as historians. Who can ask for an investigation can do it?

Suspected sockpuppets
The comparison between the registers of contributions highlights the thing, identical behavior between the accounts: many changes without source and moreover wrong and / or debunked, stubs without sources, pages on historical nom characters passed for such. Sira Aspera (talk) 10:16, 18 August 2022 (UTC)

Comments by other users

 * Accused parties may also comment/discuss in this section below. See Defending yourself against claims.

Overall, range of interests (Ottoman genealogy) indistinguishable from the master and other socks. Specifically, re-created Hümaşah Sultan (daughter of Murad III), previously created by Dp210 and later edited by Dt.022. CU requested in case there are others. Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 14:23, 22 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Given the comments above and below and the substantial overlap between this and earlier accounts, I've gone ahead and indeffed ANGELA BIDOIA. Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 19:53, 22 August 2022 (UTC)

This account is another single-purpose account editing about female members of the Ottoman royal family. It appears that Physo172 is now considered the master account and Dp210 another sock. This account has same characteristic of putting "Daughter of" as disambiguator. Robert McClenon (talk) 16:23, 22 August 2022 (UTC)

Clerk, CheckUser, and/or patrolling admin comments

 * Account is now indeffed. Added tag, requested lock, closing. Don't really see a need for CU at this time. Thanks, Spicy (talk) 22:09, 22 August 2022 (UTC)

Suspected sockpuppets

 * I think I've found another one, his or of Dp210. New account, Same behavior as the previous ones: changes without source and clearly false: Nisa25. Sira Aspera (talk) 07:37, 4 September 2022 (UTC)

Comments by other users

 * Accused parties may also comment/discuss in this section below. See Defending yourself against claims.

Clerk, CheckUser, and/or patrolling admin comments

 * Seems very plausible, but I'd like to see what CU has to say.  --  Tamzin  [ cetacean needed ] (she&#124;they&#124;xe) 06:40, 4 October 2022 (UTC)
 * - -- RoySmith (talk) 13:05, 4 October 2022 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure what to make of this case. The accounts mentioned in this case (including the archive) geolocate to a number of countries in the same general region, with some overlap of user agents, but nothing that stands out as a solid match.  Nisa25 is no exception.  It's possible there's proxies in use, but I don't see any overwhelming evidence of that.  I think the best I can do is  and/or  due to proxy use  -- RoySmith (talk) 13:27, 4 October 2022 (UTC)
 * if you're unopposed I'm tempted to close this without action. While the overlap is massive, it seems to be a rather common area of interest. There's evidence such as Nisa25 frequently citing ISBN 978-3-942929-36-3 which I didn't see the other socks do, as well as making conflicting edits on trwiki with, a confirmed sock. Wondering if you have a differing opinion. DatGuyTalkContribs 15:58, 9 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Hmm. Couple specific tells I want to look for. Will report back. --  Tamzin  [ cetacean needed ] (she&#124;they&#124;xe) 17:05, 9 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Hmm. I learned before, looking at this topic area, that it's one of those ones that does often draw people to make rather similar edits—like trains or hurricanes, just not as well-represented on enwiki. In this case, I do see some behavioral similarities beyond just the article overlap, including a shared tendency toward quirky citation styles—but not the same quirky citation styles, so... I think this is far from an exoneration, but agree there's not enough evidence to block at this time. No objection to closing. --  Tamzin  [ cetacean needed ] (she&#124;they&#124;xe) 23:15, 9 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Concur, especially with the 'possible but not enough' bit. Closing without action. DatGuyTalkContribs 08:30, 10 October 2022 (UTC)

Suspected sockpuppets
New editor recreating the same articles on Ottoman princesses, with the exact same text apparently (e.g. the text of Hatice Sultan (daughter of Bayezid II) can be found on a June version of Wikimill). Fram (talk) 10:36, 8 December 2022 (UTC)

Comments by other users

 * Accused parties may also comment/discuss in this section below. See Defending yourself against claims.

Clerk, CheckUser, and/or patrolling admin comments

 * Same IP range as Dp210 and Dt.022. I remember being pretty sure Dp210 wasn't Physo172, but whatever.  I'll tag as suspected. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 17:06, 8 December 2022 (UTC)

Suspected sockpuppets
Same narrow interest as the master and other socks. I was about to accept their draft Draft:Fahriye Sultan but was put off to see that Fahriye Sultan had been deleted previously due to socking. I thought it best to highlight this account created in December 2022 in case it is related. Curb Safe Charmer (talk) 12:28, 13 January 2023 (UTC)

Comments by other users

 * Accused parties may also comment/discuss in this section below. See Defending yourself against claims.

Clerk, CheckUser, and/or patrolling admin comments

 * - worth a check The SandDoctor  Talk 21:24, 15 January 2023 (UTC)
 * - -- RoySmith (talk) 18:28, 16 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Saturdaykap is to be ANGELA BIDOIA from 18 August 2022.  ANGELA was tagged as a Physo172 sock, but based on the CU data, I think that's likely incorrect.  I'm inclined, however, to leave them here and see what develops over time rather than break them out into their own case just yet. -- RoySmith (talk) 18:52, 16 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Closing for now. Feel free to report again if they become active. MarioGom (talk) 23:14, 6 February 2023 (UTC)

Suspected sockpuppets
Very recent account, same narrow interest as the master and other socks, same problems and disruptive editing behavior. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sira Aspera (talk • contribs) 14:18, 30 January 2023 (UTC)

Comments by other users

 * Accused parties may also comment/discuss in this section below. See Defending yourself against claims.

Clerk, CheckUser, and/or patrolling admin comments

 * formatted malformed report. MarioGom (talk) 18:43, 30 January 2023 (UTC)
 * ✅ that = Kamer2507. Now blocked. No sleepers for now. - Mailer Diablo 13:43, 6 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Tagged, closing. MarioGom (talk) 23:12, 6 February 2023 (UTC)

Suspected sockpuppets

 * Very recent account, same time interval between attempts to create new accounts of precedents temptative, same username's structure Ottoman name+numbers, the same disruptive attitude in a narrow field, the same critical problems in the contents (no source, claiming to write truthful information, but comparing the contributions of his various socks it is evident that he writes different things each time on the same pages plus remotion of sourced material with no justification which means that in addition to a serial block evader we are also dealing with a problematic user in terms of content, if not a vandal).Sira Aspera (talk) 08:16, 20 April 2023 (UTC)

Comments by other users

 * Accused parties may also comment/discuss in this section below. See Defending yourself against claims.

Clerk, CheckUser, and/or patrolling admin comments

 * Asitan19 is, but there's enough uncertainty I don't feel comfortable tagging as anything more than suspected. -- RoySmith (talk) 15:36, 22 April 2023 (UTC)

Suspected sockpuppets

 * Very recent account, more or less the same time interval between attempts to create new accounts of precedents temptative, same username's structure Ottoman name+numbers, the same disruptive attitude in a narrow field, the same problems in the contents. User already has several confirmed sockpuppets that modded the pages differently each time, which makes me think either takes information randomly or somehow finds it funny.Sira Aspera (talk) 20:32, 28 July 2023 (UTC)
 * . Tagging as proven. RoySmith (talk) 20:53, 28 July 2023 (UTC)

Suspected sockpuppets
Same specific interest about Ottoman royalty and daughters of sultans in particular, recreated Hümaşah Sultan (daughter of Murad III) previously created twice by Physo + sock.

First deletion comment noted Note sockmaster's history of incorrect referencing / maybe outright hoaxing., which matches with the use of many phantom references in the latest version of the article (references like "Süreyya, 1 Cild 1996" are invoked, but never linked to a corresponding work in the bibliography). Chaotıċ Enby (talk · contribs) 02:02, 7 February 2024 (UTC)

Comments by other users

 * Accused parties may also comment/discuss in this section below. See Defending yourself against claims.


 * Same disruptive/randomic behavior + mass creation of poor quality pages with dubious information and already previously deleted or rejected as draft, in particular, mass creation of pages for the daughters of Ottoman Sultan Ibrahim I. Sira Aspera (talk) 07:11, 12 February 2024 (UTC)

Clerk, CheckUser, and/or patrolling admin comments

 * Already blocked and tagged. The Wordsmith Talk to me 03:41, 5 March 2024 (UTC)

Suspected sockpuppets

 * Recent account created right after the last one (Humaikiski) was blocked, same naming pattern with Ottomans names and same disrupted behavior, same narrow focus Sira Aspera (talk) 11:37, 19 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Behavioral evidence shows strong similarities and the timing lines up. The Wordsmith Talk to me 20:16, 3 April 2024 (UTC)

Suspected sockpuppets

 * Recent account same naming pattern with Ottomans names+number and same edits style, same narrow focus Sira Aspera (talk) 16:36, 3 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Behavioral evidence indicates this is likely Physo172. The Wordsmith Talk to me 20:23, 3 April 2024 (UTC)