Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Sbelknap/Archive

Suspected sockpuppets



 * Tools: Editor interaction utility • Interaction Timeline • User compare report Auto-generated every hour.

I'm concerned that this user has been logging out and replying to himself with an IP. First of all this person is editing under an abbreviation of a real scientist/doctor's name, and after I raised impersonation concerns, he confirmed his identity, per this. So the person is Steven M Belknap, MD, who works at Northwestern University in Chicago, per their faculty page there. They have been editing very contentiously at finasteride and related articles, and I have an open thread at AN looking for a TBAN here, where a TBAN has a clearly developing consensus. I have been trying to figure out how and if to move forward trying to work with this person on other medical topics. One thing I did not bring up at AN, is a concern I have that he has been editing while logged out at the finasteride talk page, and twice trying to appear like someone else is talking.

Sbelknap often doesn't sign their posts, and neither do these IPs, pretty often. In general Sbelknap has ignored our norms and policies and guidelines, so maybe some of this is him just not caring or understanding the confusion it causes.

I started listing IPs from about mid-April, and they are listed in the chronological order in which they appeared. There are more before then, but there are already 11 just starting from then. The first one listed, 2604...6891, for example addressed me here, and this sounds a like Sbelknap when he is logged in, (for example here and also here, both unsigned, but from his login). Critiquing the source, like an expert would. And this one, from the 3rd IP, 2604...457f, sounds like him too, talking about what doctors are doing, like a doctor would. I haven't known what to do with that sort of thing.

But there are two occasions where an (the?) IP acted as though it is not Belknap. This diff, where IP 2604...da2b (the 7th one listed above) replies to Sbelknap, writing Wow, I'm honestly shocked that somebody tried to hack your account and gave you a threatening call. I'm sorry that happened to you.... And here where IP 2604..9e33 (the 10th one listed) refers to "SBelknap" as though he is someone else: Sbelknap is a highly respected scientist and you are not only driving away valued expertise from wikipedia but you are threatening to have them blocked with no standing.

In the midst of that, the 8th IP, 2602...d2e2 wrote this, inviting me to collaborate, and that post doesn't refer to Sbelknap in the third person or the 1st person. Which is totally confusing.

There are two places where Sbelknap signed over an IP. The IP 2602...5E2 (9th IP listed - again, between the two I am concerned were socking!) wrote this in the first person (referring to "me"), and Sbelknap signed over it, here. Again, very confusing.

The 11th IP listed there, IP 2602...5c48, posted to Sbelnap's talk page, responding to me in a discussion I am having with Sbelnap, and Sbelknap signed over it, here.

I am a loss here. Are all these IPs one person? Are they many people? Clearly Belknap is at least two, since he signed over them.

The concern is the two IP postings that would be a very clear violation of SOCK, where they acted like they were someone different. Jytdog (talk) 06:55, 7 May 2018 (UTC)
 * User:Bbb23 thanks for looking at this, but I am a confused by your response. I fully understand the obligation to not reveal things about IP editors. I understand that this is especially important with regard to editors who use their right to privacy here in WP.   However, I took pains to make it clear that the user SBelknap has verified their real world identity. I posted the same information at AN, in front of God and everybody, and nobody batted an eye, and we have TBANed this person, based on their behavior here in WP.  There is no OUTING concern here, that I can see.


 * The question is whether SBelknap has been editing deceptively while logged out. If they have been doing this, this is a very clear violation of the SOCK policy.


 * I very much respect the care you take to use the CU tool in alignment with policy. But would you please clarify your response?  How else, but through CU, are we to understand what happened here? (that is not a rhetorical question). Are you saying that declaring one's RW identity prevents us from determining if someone is editing deceptively while logged out?


 * I also understand that you may choose not to answer. If so, I look forward to others' responses. Thanks for your patience and I apologize for not understanding the issue here, in this case. Jytdog (talk) 02:10, 8 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your reply. I appreciate you taking the time.  I am frankly baffled by the whole "geolocate" thing. I get different answers from different tools.  But thanks again.
 * I look forward to admins reviewing the behavioral evidence, at least.  Jytdog (talk) 02:26, 8 May 2018 (UTC)

Comments by other users
''Accused parties may also comment/discuss in this section below. See Defending yourself against claims.'' There is definitely something to this, I think. I had actually intended to report this a while ago because I noticed both the IPs and the editor would come in with their advocacy around the same timeframe, editing very closely to each other, and both would not sign their posts. It could be a plan to revert without restrictions and avoid a block possibly or people who know each other might be colluding. I actually mentioned this on the talk page here but edited it out because I thought I might just be crazy, but after reading your post, I don't think I was. Jojomuju (talk) 10:14, 7 May 2018 (UTC)

Clerk, CheckUser, and/or patrolling admin comments
CU declined. The filer should know better.--Bbb23 (talk) 12:49, 7 May 2018 (UTC)
 * I don't care what the user admits; that's up to them. Policy prohibits me from publicly disclosing the IP(s) of named accounts. As a matter of publicly accessible information, the two different IPv6 ranges are from very different locations, and it seems unlikely they are operated by the same user. Finally, whether editing is deceptive is a behavioral concept, not a technical one.--Bbb23 (talk) 02:16, 8 May 2018 (UTC)


 * The IP's appeared to have stopped editing. Closing. Sro23 (talk) 02:04, 15 May 2018 (UTC)