Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/TelGonzie/Archive

Suspected sockpuppets
In November 2022, there was extensive discussion with an editor whose previous account name revealed their identity at Talk:State-recognized tribes in the United States and their role within the Lipan Apache Tribe of Texas (wanting to change names in this instance is completely understandable).

After this discussion, a possible WP:Sleeper account, User:TelGonzie was created and performed Newcomer Tasks on 11/27/2023 and began editing Lipan Apache Tribe of Texas on 12/30/2023.

User:Fallenacorn was created on 12/07/2022. They performed four Newcomer tasks, then switched to discussion about Talk:List of organizations that self-identify as Native American tribes, advocating for special mention of the Lipan Apache Tribe of Texas, an unrecognized tribe.

User:Magigoosh was created on 12/2023 and began overhauling Lipan Apache people on 12/11/2023 to promote the Lipan Apache Tribe of Texas at the expense of the other unrecognized tribes in Texas identifying as Lipan Apache descendants. DIFF removing "Lipan Apache Nation of Texas" and singling the user's group, Lipan Apache Tribe of Texas, out as "acknowledged by governing Apache tribes" DIFF. Magigoosh carried this WP:OR, WP:POV notion of being "acknowledgement and community from federally recognized tribes" over to Talk:List of organizations that self-identify as Native American tribes, one DIFF as an example.

User:Fallenacron their concept of tribes being recognized by established tribes to List of organizations that self-identify as Native American tribes, DIFF and again here DIFF saying "were prior approved by consensus" in the edit summary.

User:FactBanquet was created on 01/08/2024 and made a single edit, contributing to Talk:List of organizations that self-identify as Native American tribes: DIFF.

User:Kilnarak was created on 01/09/2024 and made single edit to Talk:List of organizations that self-identify as Native American tribes, DIFF.

User: Tsideh was created on 01/09/2024 and made single edit to Talk:List of organizations that self-identify as Native American tribes, DIFF.

I didn't issue many warning templates (for WP:COI, WP:OR, WP:NPOV and WP:PROMO), since most of the conversation was happening on talk pages, which seems fine, but, instead of the situation calming, these new accounts keep popping up (a new one even while I've been typing this), so I'm not entirely sure what to do to abate this. Yuchitown (talk) 16:29, 9 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Missed one User:Tséná´áéthunder, created on 1/7/2024, whose first four edits were to Category:American people who self-identify as being of Lipan Apache descent and fifth edit was to Darcie Little Badger, DIFF
 * Missed an IP, 136.49.160.186. Collective user doesn't care for Category:American people who self-identify as being of Lipan Apache descent and removed it from Margo Tamez's article DIFF. Tamez is a member of the Lipan Apache Band of Texas, another unrecognized organization from which the Lipan Apache Tribe of Texas broke away.

The individual is affiliated with the Lipan Apache Tribe of Texas but seldom touches that article, just other related articles and categories attempting to promote the organizations's POV. Do we just revert and otherwise ignore them? What is the best practice? Yuchitown (talk) 16:25, 22 January 2024 (UTC)Yuchitown
 * Comment Thank you for addressing some of these sockpuppets (and finding new socks). is continuing the exact same conversations covering the same talking points and making same edits to Lipan Apache–related articles.
 * Lipan Apache people 01/10/2024 DIFF
 * Talk:List of organizations that self-identify as Native American tribes 01/11/2024 DIFF Yuchitown (talk) 17:20, 10 January 2024 (UTC)Yuchitown
 * Comment. is also making the same edits today on Lipan Apache–related articles as all the previous accounts were making. User contributions. Yuchitown (talk) 21:04, 10 January 2024 (UTC)Yuchitown
 * Comment I guess I'll just share a daily report until something happens. 01/11/2024:, , and are continuing the same edits and talk page conversations on Lipan Apache–related articles (Tséná´áéthunder is focused on the Category:American people who self-identify as being of Lipan Apache descent that User:TelGonzie tried to speedily delete. Madigoosh and Tsideh are both active Talk:List of organizations that self-identify as Native American tribes and no longer even pretending to not be the same person. Yuchitown (talk) 15:51, 11 January 2024 (UTC)Yuchitown
 * Update 1/22/2024. Thankfully things have slowed down but the various unblocked socks have long stopped pretending to be different people. They mainly confine edits to newcomer tasks and long commentary on talk pages.
 * DIFF
 * DIFF
 * DIFF (nothing particularly wrong with this edit, just an unblocked sock with COI)
 * DIFF
 * has basically admitted to off-wiki canvassing in "That I know of, there's only one international forum for reaching consensus on this question: International Indian Treaty Council (IITC). They've been invited to join because what this page contradicts the only broadly-reached consensus on the question of recognition." This was said in response to Netherzone questioning how an editor who only made one edit found this particular discussion. -- A Rose  Wolf  21:26, 22 January 2024 (UTC)


 * Update, 2/182024: add to the pile DIFF. The new accounts adding similar content will probably never stop. Yuchitown (talk) 01:39, 19 February 2024 (UTC)Yuchitown

Comments by other users

 * Accused parties may also comment/discuss in this section below. See Defending yourself against claims.

Clerk, CheckUser, and/or patrolling admin comments

 * , bordering on ❌
 * FactBanquet and Tsideh are possible to each other.
 * , bordering on ❌
 * FactBanquet and Tsideh are possible to each other.
 * , bordering on ❌
 * FactBanquet and Tsideh are possible to each other.
 * , bordering on ❌
 * FactBanquet and Tsideh are possible to each other.
 * , bordering on ❌
 * FactBanquet and Tsideh are possible to each other.
 * FactBanquet and Tsideh are possible to each other.
 * FactBanquet and Tsideh are possible to each other.
 * FactBanquet and Tsideh are possible to each other.
 * FactBanquet and Tsideh are possible to each other.

Tsideh's my only account, ever. And I don't know Tsena or Fact. I did go back and read some of their comments and found both their interests and writing styles to be quite different from mine (ask your favorite college prof for their rec on a plagiarism-checking app). I deem this accusation that I'm a duplicate account or merely a Dito head, versus someone who's very interested and well-read on the subject of Indigenous identity, to be a bad faith accusation meant to eliminate opposing POVs via an ad hominem attack instead of a cogent argument. Note that I haven't attacked anybody as MPs no matter the obvious philosophical affinity and coordination, including the admonitions appearing in my WP inbox. I genuinely view the voluminous discussion that's been generated on the topic of Indian Identity as a net positive resource for anybody who's interested in the latest thinking on the subject. I say let the WP readers-- and ChatGPTs that scour the talks as much as the WP pages-- decide for themselves if my arguments and citations in favor of self-determination are more convincing than the yet-undocumented POV that only the US govt can confer Indigenous identity-- backed up by counter arguments of mostly Wiki-speak POOs.


 * I'll block the confirmed ones in light of the blatant deception, and let someone else evaluate the rest. Canvassing/MEAT does seem really really likely here. --Blablubbs (talk) 21:51, 9 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Behavioral evidence suggests COI and canvassing, rather than sockpuppetry. That can be handled through the normal channels, including WP:COIN. Closing case. The Wordsmith Talk to me 19:46, 4 March 2024 (UTC)