Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/VeritasVox/Archive

Suspected sockpuppets



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VeritasVox has been an editor here for 2 years, during which time they've made under 300 edits (276 currently). Of these, 21 were to Julius Evola, and 44 to Talk:Julius Evola, so almost a quarter of their edits involve that subject. As the result of a complaint filed at AN/I, they have been partially blocked from posting there by JzG .Today, a brand new editor, Soupsmarx, made their very first Wikipedia edit to Julius Evola, , the effect of which was to revert back to a version of the article before VeritasVox's edits had been deleted.It seems very likely to me that the "new" editor is VeritasVox evading his block by using a sockpuppet.Because there is very little behavioral evidence, and because of the possibility of a "joe job", I've asked for a CU check.Beyond My Ken (talk) 22:43, 25 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Since VV has invited a CU check, I believe WP:Meatpuppetry should also be considered as a possibility. Beyond My Ken (talk) 22:56, 25 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Thanks, DQ. Beyond My Ken (talk) 11:39, 29 May 2020 (UTC)

Comments by other users
''Accused parties may also comment/discuss in this section below. See Defending yourself against claims.''

Not me and haven't contacted, beyond a message on his talkpage a few minutes ago. VeritasVox (talk) 22:53, 25 May 2020 (UTC)

Is quite serendipitous that this has been edited in this way during a discussion on the admin noticeboard about this edit, but frankly if I was going to sockpuppet/meatpuppet I would have at least waited a couple of weeks. Up to you. VeritasVox (talk) 23:06, 25 May 2020 (UTC)


 * Given that the account was registered right after VV was blocked from the article specifically to restore VV's chosen version (which, not being the last edit on the page history, is not something new users typically do), and VV's failure to appreciate problems until they're pointed out (before then acting like he wasn't in denial this whole time), his argument that he would have waited a few weeks strikes me as him realizing that would have been a more practical idea. VV's comraderie suggests this is not a joe job.  If I wasn't involved with the article I'd've blocked at least Soupsmarx from the Evola article as "if not sock then meat."  Ian.thomson (talk) 22:03, 26 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Camaraderie. To be perfectly honest Ian, I would be drawing the same conclusions if I were in your position. I offer no defence other than simply restating the fact that he is not me, and is unknown to me. Deeply amusing that this happened to happen at this particular moment and in this particular way. Take that as you will. VeritasVox (talk) 22:25, 26 May 2020 (UTC)

Clerk, CheckUser, and/or patrolling admin comments

 * ❌, but Soupsmarx is Architect 134. -- Amanda  (aka DQ) 11:35, 29 May 2020 (UTC)

Suspected sockpuppets



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The locus of this report is the article Julius Evola. The article describes the subject as an "antisemitic conspiracy theorist". The current editor in question, Schenkstroop, is attempting to remove this, against the standing talk page consensus, without gathering a new consensus to do so. (See ) The last person to attempt to remove this from the article was VeritasVox. (See here) VeritasVox was eventually partially blocked from editing the article for a year, ending this coming May. They stopped editing in October 2020.The circumstances are sufficient, I believe, to warrant a checkuser scan, although a behavioral block would be warranted as well. Beyond My Ken (talk) 01:42, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Schenkstroop edited against consensus immediately after being told that they needed a consensus to restore., The editor clearly has a fish to fry in this dispute, making it even more likely that they're VeritasVox, who was pretty much a SPA regarding Julius Evola, as is Schenkstroop. . Beyond My Ken (talk) 02:57, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * I am a single purpose account while having more than a thousand edits on various wiki projects? Seems unlikely. I understand you have some kind of personal feud with VertiasVox (see below) but please do not direct your anger at me with these kinds of dubious arguments. Schenkstroop (talk) 14:40, 24 March 2021 (UTC)


 * Just popped in to say it's nice to see I'm still living rent-free in your head after all this time, Kenny. But then, I see your recent block for edit-warring demonstrates a certain over-zealousness, as does your rather abstract definition of 'consensus.' Hope you're staying safe in these trying times <3 Your pal, VeritasVox (talk) 00:03, 24 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Words to live by - https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Beyond_My_Ken&diff=prev&oldid=732312627 VeritasVox (talk) 10:45, 24 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Gosh, I really got under your skin, didn't I? So much so that razzing me was the first thing you felt compelled to do after taking a 5 1/2 month "Wikibreak".   What an honor to have gotten a disruptive editor such as yourself so rattled. Beyond My Ken (talk) 11:13, 24 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Not at all, I've largely been focusing on other things. Career and all that - as you say, I haven't been present here for many months. I find stepping away from such things before they become all consuming to be far more psychologically healthy, particularly amid the current maelstrom - after all, a singular focus can eat away at the beauty of life. I confess I'm relatively unaware of how such matters are conducted, but I hope my replies clarify things with regards to Schenkstroop - who may also be interested in the works of Rene Guenon, if he hasn't read them already. To you, Beyond My Ken, I simply convey my hope that you are well in body and mind, and that your immense contributions here are mirrored by strident efforts in other areas of your life. Be well. VeritasVox (talk) 11:33, 24 March 2021 (UTC)
 * "Strident efforts"? Really, Voxy? Don't you wish for me a life of ease and comfort, free from the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune?  You'd prefer my life outside of Wikipedia to be filled with harsh, raucous, loud, stentorian, rough, or grating efforts? That sounds pretty bad, and doesn't seem at all consonant with your hope for my being "well in body and mind", does it?  It almost seems like ... let me whisper it here:  sarcasm  on your part, sorta like you really didn't want health and well-being for me at all.  Shirely you don't mean that, Voxy? Beyond My Ken (talk) 13:20, 24 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Interesting that you view strident efforts as inherently negative, especially given your contributions here. I'm reminded of the choice of Heracles in Xenophon's Memorablia, between a life of ease and once of difficulty and glory - I believe Evola discussed it in The Bow and the Club, if you wish to read further. Lives of ease and comfort generally do not build moral character, or mental/physical health. I truly wish you well, Ken, as I do not hold on to grudges - such things disfigure the soul. I simply hope that wikipedia adds more to your life than it takes away. Yours, VeritasVox (talk) 13:33, 24 March 2021 (UTC)


 *  Back to the subject of sockpuppetry:  I'd note that Schenkstroop, after editing consistently from 11 March on, stopped doing so on 16 March, 4 days after their comment below. Then, on 23 March, VeritasVox awoke from a 5 1/2 month period of not editing, and their third edit -- after their NPA-violating edit just above -- was to an article I have extensive contributions to, almost as if they were announcing to me their return - very cheeky.  Beyond My Ken (talk) 13:34, 24 March 2021 (UTC)
 * I stopped editing on march 16th? Maybe check this out. Schenkstroop (talk) 14:28, 24 March 2021 (UTC)
 * You stopped editing here on 16 March. What you do on other language Wikipedias is not relevant to this discussion. Beyond My Ken (talk) 14:49, 24 March 2021 (UTC)
 * You claim my whole account is a sockpuppet, not only my English Wikipedia account, right? Schenkstroop (talk) 14:58, 24 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Well, an admin will sort it out, but let's say, for the sake of argument, that you are a sockpuppet of VeritasVox. For whatever reason the person behind the accounts decides to retire the VeritasVox account for a while, and only use their Schenkstroop account, which they use on both English and Dutch Wikipedia.  Then, something about their situation changes, and they decide to revive the VV account. They continue to use Schenkstroop to edit on nl.wiki, because they don't have a VV account there, but start up again with VV on en.wiki, perhaps because they enjoy zinging me with that account, perhaps for some other reason.That's a perfectly reasonable and logical explanation for what might have happened, but that scenario is not going to play much part in an administrator's evaluation of the two accounts.  They're going to compare the edits on en.wiki both accounts made -- because that's the only place that both accounts edited -- and they're going to look at the articles edited, the language used, the kinds of comments made, etc.In my opinion, the correlation was close enough to justify an SPI report, and a CheckUser agreed to the extent that a check was made to see if both accounts were shown to be related by technical evidence.  That has turned out not to be the case, so now behavioral evidence will be used to make a determination of possible SOCKPUPPETRY, or WP:MEATPUPPETRY. Beyond My Ken (talk) 15:14, 24 March 2021 (UTC)


 * 'Behavioural evidence' does encompass more than 'disagreeing with Beyond My Ken,' doesn't it? VeritasVox (talk) 15:19, 24 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Yes indeed, much, much more. For instance, this discussion here is behavioral evidence. Beyond My Ken (talk) 15:28, 24 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Well and good. VeritasVox (talk) 15:31, 24 March 2021 (UTC)
 * You've edited rather a lot of articles, Ken. I was reading about postmodern dance and noticed errant commas. Perhaps a 'ghost of the ego,' to quote Nietzsche? VeritasVox (talk) 14:35, 24 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Interesting that you've never edited any other article on post-modern dance -- or any other kind of dance for that matter -- or any article about the performing arts at all. Beyond My Ken (talk) 14:52, 24 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Well, I don't believe I'd edited any articles on Irish history before my Oggham edits? If you must know, I saw a rather interesting piece by the museum of modern art on youtube by the Judson Dance Theater and was meandering around articles on the subject. Does that satisfy your paranoia? VeritasVox (talk) 15:14, 24 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Yes, well done, it's quite easy to read an article and then create an ex post facto explanation for your behavior, but the fact remains that your revived your account, then edited your user page to remove your interests from it (interesting edit, no mention of dance in that list), then you came here to post a taunting message to me,  and you followed up by making a trivial edit (BTW, thanks for fixing the commas) to an article I have hundred of edits to .  I find that to be very telling behavior. Beyond My Ken (talk) 15:26, 24 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Now I think we'd both better stop, before we both' get blocked for this discussion, which really should be collapsed. Beyond My Ken (talk) 15:31, 24 March 2021 (UTC)

Yes, I thought you may do that. Last word. VeritasVox (talk) 15:40, 24 March 2021 (UTC)

Comments by other users
''Accused parties may also comment/discuss in this section below. See Defending yourself against claims.''

I edited "against consensus" once. After that I stopped. That is it basically. I do not see that mentioned under when to consider requesting CheckUser. And that makes sense.Schenkstroop (talk) 02:18, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Veritasvox, as far as I can tell, does not even have a history of sockpuppetry. But supposedly, my 3 year old account with over 900 edits on various wiki projects is a sockpuppet of his? Just because VeritasVox and I have the same opinion.. And there are no logs that prove we use the same IP address. Schenkstroop (talk) 10:53, 12 March 2021 (UTC)

Clerk, CheckUser, and/or patrolling admin comments

 * . There are no good logs that I can use to compare the master. This will need a behavioral analysis...  ~Oshwah~  (talk) (contribs)   02:32, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * ❌ Seeing as Veritas edited since Oshwah checked, it is now possible to examine things. They're unrelated. My assessment is not MEAT either. Evola is a well trafficked page, no wonder two folks with similar views might edit it. The current P-block on Veritas is a good solution. CaptainEek  Edits Ho Cap'n!⚓ 16:54, 8 May 2021 (UTC)