Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Virgiliosarvanitis/Archive

Suspected sockpuppets

 * ( original case name)

The Virgil account was edit warring for days on the Greeks article. After they were reported for edit warring, half an hour later the Kiwi account was created. Kiwi made some "minor edits", stayed some days off, and then appeared on the talk page of the Greeks article to support Virgil. If indeed they are the same person, this is a classic case of tendentious socking, because Kiwi not only is supporting Virgil but also claims to be a new editor ("I am new here"). Apart from the fact that a new account is supporting Virgil, they have some similarities in writing, such as using the expression "numerous sources" to make it look like their stance has widespread support among scholars. A CU can verify if indeed they are the same person or it is just my wrong impression. Ktrimi991 (talk) 00:58, 15 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Virgil and Kiwi divide section titles in two parts using "-" or "|" . In all these years on Wikipedia, I have never seen anyone else doing that. Ktrimi991 (talk) 01:07, 15 December 2022 (UTC)

Comments by other users

 * Accused parties may also comment/discuss in this section below. See Defending yourself against claims.

Clerk, CheckUser, and/or patrolling admin comments

 * . --Blablubbs (talk) 08:59, 15 December 2022 (UTC)
 * ✅ plus . This is pretty blatant and intentional deception, so I'm blocking them all indefinitely. Closing.  --Blablubbs (talk) 09:12, 15 December 2022 (UTC)

Suspected sockpuppets
who edited mostly as and also operated  was blocked in December 2022. Most of his edits involved changing the figures of Greeks in Albania and Albanians in Greece (usually changing both to overinflated figures). When he was blocked, he was involved in a discussion at Talk:Greeks/Archive 11 and after the block, he began to reply to the discussion as. When I reported him again, he even admitted that it is him:.

An IP from the same range: appeared a few days ago to push the same edits as Virgilanthony at Greeks in Albania and when the article was semi-protected, an account with no prior editing experience was activated - to bypass semi-protection - and reinstated them:. The account had 0 edits before March 16 2023. This is more of WP:DUCK case, but I want to suggest some sort of range ban if this is technically possible. Maleschreiber (talk) 02:09, 18 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Since the account's activation, they've been reinstating Virgilanthony's edits in every article he was involved:Albanian New Zealanders (Rootcragsar:, Virgilanthony:,  and another account which (most likely) of Virgilanthony as well:  ) These are the same exact edits. A range block might be necessary.--Maleschreiber (talk) 18:38, 18 March 2023 (UTC)
 * This account (Rootcragsar) was activated as a result of the semi-protection El C placed for the article Northern Epirus. He was editing as 122.57.69.122. as late as 21:46 16 March 2022, then he activated the account on 21:55 16 March 2022 to use it to bypass El C's semi-protection of the article on 21:58, 16 March 2023. Even as we speak the same type of editing is occurring .--Maleschreiber (talk) 03:31, 19 March 2023 (UTC)

Comments by other users

 * Accused parties may also comment/discuss in this section below. See Defending yourself against claims.

I'm surprised by this report and not very familiar with the process. My account is a year old, and I have been editing articles that contain poor copywriting and selective information on delicate topics such as Greeks in Albania. While Wikipedia is a platform for everyone to contribute, it seems that some individuals prefer to monopolize the editing process. I was prompted to make my contributions after reading a post on the Greece subreddit on Reddit, which mentioned that the person making the report and others were editing multiple pages related to the Greek communities in Albania. As a member of this community and a dedicated reader of Wikipedia, and as part of the Greek Diaspora in Australia and New Zealand (which explains my IP range, shared by all Spark users at the Auckland City Libraries and University Libraries), I felt compelled to reactivate my account and contribute. My contributions, along with those of others, have only added new information and expanded on previously highlighted quotes. This is evident from comparing the previous reverts by the individual in question and my own edits. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rootcragsar (talk • contribs) 02:23, 18 March 2023 (UTC)

I have included a segment of the article that the above user reverted, and following that, I have included my own contribution. The changes I made are not significant and only improve the copy and provide a better source for a claim that seemed more dubious in the previous version. Additionally, I expanded on information that was already mentioned, such as clarifying that the census figure is only from within the minority zone. These changes only serve to benefit readers, and do not support the accusations made by the above user.

Their revert as preffered In modern times, the Greek population has suffered from the prohibition of the Greek language if spoken outside the recognised so-called "minority zones" (which have remained after the communist era) and even limitations on the official use of its language within those zones.[10] Many formerly Greek place-names have been officially changed to Albanian ones.[10][11] Greeks from the "minority zones" were also frequently forcibly moved to other parts of the country since they were seen as possible sources of dissent and ethnic tension.[10] In post-1990 era, these issues, including the emerging subject of private property rights, continue to persist to an extent.

Both Albania and Greece hold different and often conflicting estimations, as they have done so for the last 20 years.[12] Most Western sources put the number at around 200,000. The Albanian government in the 1989 census estimated around 60,000, while the Greek government supports a figure of 300,000.[13][14][15][16][17][18] Furthermore, 13,329 ethnic Greeks with Albanian citizenship reside in Greece, and are issued special identity cards as of 2022.[19] It has been suggested that some Albanians and Aromanians have claimed to be Greeks in exchange for economic benefits in Greece such as work permits and pensions and that it allegedly had "encouraged" the irredentism in North Epirus.

and under Demographics:

At the end of the Second World War, approximately 35,000 Northern Epirotes found refuge in Greece.[citation needed]

A special ID card for ethnic Greeks from Albania was issued in 2001 which was received by 189,000 individuals who resided in Greece at the time. For ethnic Greeks from Albania this measure was seen as treating them as "lower class citizens" as in order to obtain it their "Greekness" was examined in the form of a questionnaire. Another issue with the special ID card had to do with ethnic Albanians using fake documents which presented them as members of the Greek minority to obtain it.[62] In 2008, the citizenship law change in Greece allowed for holders of special ID cards to obtain Greek citizenship and about 45,000 did so just in the first three years of its implementation.[63] The Omonoia organization put the number at 287,000 after their so called "Greek census" in 2013. This census is not recognised by the Albanian government.[64] As of 2022, the number of Albanian citizens who are holders of special IDs as homogeneis (Greek co-ethnics) has been reduced to 13,329.[19]

My contribution Both Albania and Greece hold different and conflicting estimations, as they have done so for the last 20 years.[13] Most Western sources put the number at around 200,000. The Albanian government in the 1989 census estimated around 60,000 within the designated "minority zone", while the Greek government supported a higher figure of 300,000.[14][15][16][17][18][19] The 1990's saw the majority of the community emigrate to Greece.[20] In 2001, around 189,000 Albanian citizens held special identification reserved for the ethnic minority. This figure does not necessarily correspond to the total population as ethnic Albanians and Aromanians were able to falsify documentation and declare as ethnic Greeks.[21]

As of 2022 most Albanian nationals, irrespective of ethnicity, hold Greek nationality. Only 13,329 ethnic Greeks with Albanian nationality reside in Greece and are issued special identity cards reserved for the Greek minority. Upwards of 500,000 Albanian nationals have attained Greek citizenship.[22] — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rootcragsar (talk • contribs) 02:41, 18 March 2023 (UTC)

And under demographics:

At the end of the Second World War, approximately 35,000 Northern Epirotes found refuge in Greece.[citation needed]

Following the fall of communism in Albania, Greece saw an influx of Albanian refugees, including a large portion of the ethnic Greek communities.[65][66]

In 2001, a unique ID card was issued to ethnic Greeks from Albania, and at that time, 189,000 individuals residing in Greece received it. For ethnic Greeks from Albania this measure was seen as treating them as "lower class citizens" as in order to obtain the card, their "Greekness" was examined in the form of a questionnaire. Another issue with the special ID card had to do with ethnic Albanians and Aromanians using fake documents which presented them as members of the Greek minority to obtain it.[67] In 2008, the citizenship law change in Greece allowed for holders of special ID cards to obtain Greek citizenship and about 45,000 did so just in the first three years of its implementation.[68]

Plans for a community count were proposed in 2012 by the Omonoia organization.[69] They placed the number at 287,000 after their so called "Greek census" in 2013. This census is not recognised by the Albanian government.[70] As of 2022, the number of Albanian citizens who are holders of special IDs as homogeneis (Greek co-ethnics) has been reduced to 13,329.[71] Special identity cards are issued prior to obtaining Greek citizenship to ethnic Greeks from abroad, including Albania.[72] — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rootcragsar (talk • contribs)
 * Hello, I am editing on these pages because of concerns raised in the social media groups regarding your editing behavior towards ethnic Albanians in Greece and ethnic Greeks in Albania - your account, as I see the username, was mentioned directly. We have the right to come and contribute. These topics have garnered significant interest from editors, particularly from our close-knit communities in Australia and New Zealand, where we have a smaller population. As for my editing of Albanian New Zealanders, I am opting to contribute to pages that are easy to contribute to. Rootcragsar (talk) 23:02, 18 March 2023 (UTC)
 * I have also not reinstated anything, of anyones. I have contributed, with sources, or expanded on details. I am astounded by your accusations. Rootcragsar (talk) 23:18, 18 March 2023 (UTC)


 * Comment I am not an SPI clerk, but as the editor who reported the past socks of this master, I am giving my input here.
 * Rootcragsar (Root) said above that they edit with an IP that belongs to Auckland University. Virgiliosarvanitis said that he  too was at Auckland University.
 * Root says on their userpage that they enjoy tutoring. Virgilanthony, a confirmed sock, said that he was a University tutor.
 * Root says on their userpage that their origin is from a "mixed family" from Albania and Greece. The username of Virgiliosarvanitis referred to the Arvanites, a mixed Albanian-Greek community.
 * As I noted in the past SPI, Virgil and their confirmed socks had the habit to refer to their sources with expressions such as "numerous sources", "academic sources", "numerous reputable, including more recent sources", "academic resources" and so on .Root is referring to their own sources with similar expressions such as "great resource", "really good academic source", "very good source", "a better source".
 * The confirmed socks of Virgil often closed their comments with ":)" (smile) . Root is doing the same thing
 * Their edits on the numbers of Greeks in Albania, and the religions of Albanians in New Zealand show the accounts share interest in the same details.
 * All in all, I think that it is reasonable to conclude that Rootcragsar is a sock account. It is practically impossible that two people at the same time are Greek-Albanian/Arvanite "tutors" at University of Auckland, who use similar expressions and the same emoji in discussions, and edit the same article details. If one does more research than my limited time permits, I have the impression that even more evidence can be found. Ktrimi991 (talk) 00:44, 19 March 2023 (UTC)

Clerk, CheckUser, and/or patrolling admin comments

 * Previous accounts are, but is a weak  to the CU log. I'd like a second opinion on behaviour. . --Blablubbs (talk) 20:16, 18 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Alright, circling back back to this; I'm honestly not sure why I didn't block yesterday, since it really is pretty ducky. Thank you for the additional evidence.  --Blablubbs (talk) 11:29, 19 March 2023 (UTC)