Wikipedia:State route naming conventions poll/Part1/Admin

Admin discussion
It appears that there is not much support for Principle III (which would confusingly disambiguate based on individual state Wikiproject decisions). That leaves us with a black-or-white choice between I and II. Both choices are logical and there is no reason to rule either one out. I recognize that there is a good amount of support for each, and II is supported by major highway editors such as SPUI and Polaron, and admins such as Cyde. But a majority is demonstrated for I, and failing any evidence of election fraud or illicit campaigning, which I don't see, there's no reason to dispute this. Ashi b aka tock 03:04, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
 * (SPUI notwithstanding, I cast my vote under the belief that there is a general consensus to use the simple majority's view as firm policy for article naming.) Ashi b aka tock 19:25, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

It would appear that I forgot to copy and past the reasoning in. I aggree that there is good and rational support from both sides for Principle I or Principle II. However, I find that the slightly higher number of votes for Principle I coupled with the argument that a reader would expect to see it in that format and probably search using that format causes me to support it. All sides should be commended for their ability to remain (for the most part) civil. CambridgeBayWeather (Talk) 05:14, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

I have little to add; I agree with Abishaka and CBW on all accounts. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Nightstallion (talk • contribs).

I'm going to throw a bit of a curveball on this one as the ArbCom ruling which served as the basis for this page stated that no 'side' had demonstrated the existence of a consensus for their view and urged the community to work together to build one. Looking only at the polling results I, like the other judges, find a clear majority for Principle I, but do not find sufficient direct support to form a true consensus as directed by ArbCom. However, consensus can be built out of a combination of high direct support along with at least acceptance by those who would prefer a different option, and I find reason to believe we may be able to do so in this case based on the contents of the discussion. Specifically, many (though not all) of the concerns of the Principle II group could seemingly be addressed by making it standard practice to include the Principle II format as a redirect to the page... and I did not see any of the supporters of Principle I objecting to that idea. One of the major remaining concerns expressed is that many users might not realize the 'Principle II redirects' exist and still type out long links when they could instead use the pipe trick... or might routinely revert to the long format to 'avoid the redirect'. To ameliorate that as much as possible I would suggest that when Naming conventions (roads) (or whatever name it ends up under) is written we include information on the standard redirects, the benefits of the pipe trick, examples of links like Route 15 (Florida) being used when the state is implied by the context and links like Florida Route 15 being used when the state isn't clear from the context of the article. For the moment I reserve my support for there being a "consensus" (as opposed to majority) behind Principle I to see if my belief that there is general agreement on the above issues is accurate. I will put a similar message on the talk page so people can comment. --CBD 10:27, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

Consensus is the intended decision method for many of the activities here on Wikipedia. These discussions stem from the problem that we have two well supported answers to a formatting problem, and that editors who are convinced that their "side" is correct (based on their arguments) have often sought to apply their format. This led to move wars, revert wars, and at least one arbitration case which led us to this poll. Perhaps here we can consider compromise as a sister to consensus. With two primary options (I agree with my fellow admins that principle 3 is right out), and no insurmountable flaw with either option, I find for principle 1 based on numbers of qualified votes. Syrthiss 12:15, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

Consensus would be nice. In this case we can't get consensus directly, but most parties have agreed to, in this case, abide by the majority vote. That's my take (and I think that of several other admins involved). That's what I think ArbCom ultimately wants, too. So in other words we have a consensus to accept something that maybe isn't exactly consensus, but at least is a majority, because getting consensus has proven impossible. Clearly not everyone agrees. In fact, regrettably, we have a vocal minority, including at least one person actively trying to disrupt this process. But that doesn't mean that there isn't a consensus for accepting a majority outcome in this case without that overriding how we do consensus most of the time. This issue has been too contentious, too time consuming, too divisive, not to push for closure now. So with that as a backdrop, I am persuaded that there is a majority for Principle I, and I concur with those admins who find for it. I am not pleased by those who would disrupt this process though, and would warn them that they have my attention now. Which is not a good thing. ++Lar: t/c 12:43, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

I have protected the page, so I am neutral. My comments are regarding what defines concensus. The principles of the arguments have been layed out in great detail. As such, I think that the "votes" are in confidence in principle. Therefore, the larger percentage of support shall will. This is an interpretation of concensus; there will be no majoritive mandate but that's not to matter in our process. I believe a support in vote of principle equates to outlining the same idea illustrated; as such the community will reach a concensus. This dispute is perhaps the greatest test of the philosophy behind policy/guidelines decisions we make. With that said, I admire the parties to the Arbcom case for laying out such a process as to resolve the matter once and for all. Teke ( talk ) 04:52, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

Admin votes
Vote "Principle I", "Principle II" etc. after 23:59 UTC on August 31. ONLY ADMINS SHOULD EDIT THIS. Hence it is protected.


 * Principle I Ashi b aka tock 03:04, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Principle I CambridgeBayWeather (Talk) 05:01, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Principle I per CBD. It may not have an actual supermajority supporting it, but most can live with it. &mdash; Nightst a  llion  (?) 05:44, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Principle I - I find that a significant majority prefer this method, most others find it at least acceptable, and only a handful strongly oppose. That IS a consensus, though unfortunately a weak and disputed one. Hopefully the use of links to Principle II style redirects will help to make this workable for most users. No consensus for now. See comments above and on talk. --CBD 10:28, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Principle I Syrthiss 12:15, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Principle I with recognition that it's not the consensus decision, it's the majority one, but that consensus is to accept the majority decision. ++Lar: t/c 12:44, 1 September 2006 (UTC)