Wikipedia:Stub types for deletion/Log/2008/January/24

NorthAm-native-bio-stub /

 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the stub template and/or category above. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the template's or category's talk page (if any).  No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the debate was keep

Unproposed, and used on just eight articles. As per longstanding precedent, Bio-stubs are deliberately not split by ethnicity. Nationality, yes; ethnicity, no. The category name is also extremely cumbersome. Delete. Grutness...wha?  09:18, 24 January 2008 (UTC) withdrawn - see below. Grutness...wha?  23:17, 24 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Keep, as creator. It's a logical offshoot of NorthAm-native-stub, which has hundreds of articles; this subcat will consistently have more than 100 articles in it when populated. As a regular writer of Native American biography, I know this stub category fills an obvious need, and has been periodically suggested at WikiProject_Indigenous_peoples_of_North_America, such as here. I also created NorthAm-native-stub two years ago — I didn't formally propose that one either, because after careful reading I was certain that WikiProject Stub sorting was too biased in favor of the modern state (called "nationality" above) to be of any use when categorizing stubs relating to Indigenous peoples, who historically may be "stateless" and for whom "ethnicity" is often equivalent to "nationality". Regrettably, this nomination suggests that this situation hasn't yet changed. —Kevin Myers 15:07, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
 * There are good, logical reasons for that "bias in favour of the modern state", as you put it. There is a bias, but it is a bias in favour of an acceptable number of stub types and organisation of stubs, not a bias against ethnicities. Given the huge number of ethnicities and nation-states there have been during the course of history, bio-stubs would very rapidly become impossible to organise effectively if these were all used for stub-sorting purposes. As such, an effective compromise position is to use modern national boundaries. That way, We have, for instance, France-bio-stub rather than French, Normand, Breizh, Euskra, Occitan, Lorraine, Aquitain, Corse, Elsezz, Savoie, Gallic, Angevin, Provencal, Burgundian, Frankish, Neustrian, Austrasian, Ostrogothic, Lombard, Soissonais, and Visigothic bio-stubs. And France is a relatively simple example - you should see what it would be like to split Russia up this way. Yes, the case is simpler still with North America, but it sets a precedent which could easily come back to bite us. Grutness...wha?  23:17, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
 * By the way, I just noticed that NorthAm-native-bio-stub is, oddly enough, listed at WikiProject Stub sorting/To do/To create, apparently since November of last year. Who put it there, I don't know, but perhaps it's been formally proposed in the past. —Kevin Myers 15:58, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah, it looks like the stub was proposed by User:Waacstats, and the result of the "debate" (such as it was) was "create". Great minds think alike! —Kevin Myers 17:18, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
 * As the not-so-official stub archivist, I let that one sit on the Proposals page until January 11, so there was plenty of time for debate. None forthcoming, I duly filed it. Hope no one objects. Her Pegship  (tis herself) 04:50, 25 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Hm. Strange.OK - in that case, I'll withdraw my nom of it for deletion. It does go against accepted practice, though. Grutness...wha?  23:17, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Part of the reason for this one is that it is often difficult or a non-sequitor to assign a country to them if they lived in an area where future political boundaries were unknown when they lived, or if they regularly changed domicile from one side to the other of the then non-border. Caerwine Caer’s whines 03:17, 25 January 2008 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the template's or category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this section.