Wikipedia:Stub types for deletion/Log/2011/April/27


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the stub template and/or category above. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the template's or category's talk page (if any).  No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was '''category and associated template deleted, stubs resorted into new and existing types per discussion

Proposed renaming to . This category is not just about rapid transit, but also tram, funicular, light rail, conventional railway, and high speed rail. HongKong-rapidtransit-stub can be kept, with the addition of HongKong-rail-stub.


 * Oppose as unnecessarily pedantic for the purposes and goal of stub sorting. SchmuckyTheCat (talk)
 * Support with additions. Actually, a quick glance at the article titles indicates that the majority of these are railway stations.  Suggest renaming category and building both HongKong-rail-stub and HongKong-rail-station-stub.  Everything upmerging to the one category for now.  Dawynn (talk) 12:35, 30 April 2011 (UTC)


 * A problem arised since was deleted and articles with MTR-stub have since been fed immediately to this category. The MTR is a network of metro, conventional railway, light rail, feeder buses and gondola lift cable car. And the MTR Corporation Limited is, besides being a rail transport operator in various countries, a property developer. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 218.250.143.151 (talk • contribs)


 * Please sign your posts. You can do this with 4 tildes at the end of what you've written: ~
 * I read the deletion log. It indicates that
 * The category was undersized.
 * The category was cryptically named.
 * MTR-stub now has some 84 articles tagged, which would remove the undersized concern. And there is a  permcat, so I would think that a similarly named stub category would be acceptable, regardless of how "cryptic" it might be.  I'm going to go for a speedy proposal to alleviate the concern related to this company. Dawynn (talk) 13:43, 2 May 2011 (UTC)


 * Please undelete, instead of just recreate. The stub category was rescinded. 23:06, 3 May 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 218.250.143.151 (talk • contribs)


 * Oppose, because of changes from the migration of {{tl}|MTR-stub}}.  Removing the MTR-related articles out of the category seems to have tidied this up considerably. Dawynn (talk) 12:02, 3 May 2011 (UTC)


 * The problem isn't actually solved. The MTR-stub tag is imposed onto articles that aren't about rapid transit, but conventional railway, high speed rail and light rail (and property development as well), and upon Dawynn's speedy reconstruction is made a subcat of . I'd therefore be inclined to my original proposal- the addition of HK-rail-stub while preserving HK-rapidtransit-stub, and renaming the existing category to . 23:06, 3 May 2011 (UTC)  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 218.250.143.151 (talk • contribs)
 * The3 whole area of Hong JKong stubs is a mess, due to the efforts of an overzealous (long-since banned) Hong Kong editor several years back. This particular category probably needs a thorough assessment, and any sudden changes without that assessment may simply lead to more screw-ups further down the line (if you'll pardon the pun). I suggest any changes here be postponed until a thorough look can be made at how to fix this, or whether it needs fixing at all. It may require an overhaul more suited to new proposals at WP:WSS/P before any deletion is possible. Grutness...wha?  00:45, 4 May 2011 (UTC)


 * The current category clearly covers high speed rail, conventional railway and light rail, besides rapid transit. What you suggested isn't probably quite relevant. 10:33, 4 May 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 218.250.143.151 (talk • contribs)


 * 1) It's highly relevant. Have you, or anyone else, gone through to see exactly:
 * ...how many of the stubs are rail, how many are are high speed rail, how many are rapid transit and how many are light rail ?
 * ...how many more stubs are likely to exist now, or possible to exist in future, on each of those types?
 * ...how few stubs may remain unsorted if the largest section is removed from this category?
 * ...the background to the previous changes in MTR-stub with relevance both to stub-sorting standards and to permanent categories?
 * As it is, the re-creation of has left only five stubs in this parent - which suggests that it does not need renaming, but rather needs deleting. In which case, where do those five stubs go? The reason that MTR stubs was initially expanded to include Hong Kong rapid transit in general was to allow for the inclusion of the tiny number of outstanding stubs in it. By re-creating that category, the problem has re-emerged. And part of the reason it was expanded to rapid transit stubs rather than rail stubs is because  is a subcategory of  rather than . Stub sorting is simply following the permcats, as is standard,. If you have any problem with those permanent categories, here is not the place to bring it up. The stub categories should be returned to how they were at the time this nomination was made, for the time being at least.
 * 2) Please SIGN your posts here! Add four tildes (~), not five! Grutness...wha?  12:07, 4 May 2011 (UTC)


 * It has never been my request to recreate . Dawynn did that. I'd say, without actually counting one by one, slightly more than half of those with MTR-stub are about conventional railway or light rail (these were tagged with KCR-stub before the MTRCL took over the operation of the KCR network on a 50-year lease). IMHO MTR-stub shall remain be fed into, which shall be renamed to . 218.250.143.151 (talk) 15:33, 4 May 2011 (UTC)


 * Grutness what you revealed here has ignited my curiosity to look into the history of HK-rapidtransit-stub and . They were created in September 2007, months before the MTRCL took over the KCR network in December 2007 on a 50-year lease. Before the takeover the MTRCL was an operator of a rapid transit system (plus a cable car system). Upon the takeover the MTRCL became an operator of rapid transit plus the KCR, which is a network of conventional railways, light rail, and feeder bus routes to the railways and the light rail systems (all these are rebranded as MTR since the takeover). In other words, back in September 2007 the MTR wasn't the sole determining factor for choosing -rapidtransit-stub over -rail-stub. The choice back then was indeed peculiar. The easy way out would be renaming the category as proposed, while postponing/undoing all other changes. 218.250.143.151 (talk) 15:56, 4 May 2011 (UTC)


 * FYI, Grutness, wasn't a subcat of  back in September 2007. 218.250.143.151 (talk) 16:09, 4 May 2011 (UTC)
 * For what its worth, I saw that the MTR-stub template had 80+ articles, and so, assuming that someone before me had properly tagged the articles, was justified in being rebuilt. However, it very well may be that MTR covers more than just rapid transit, so may not be a good fit in this category.  Perhaps  should be a subcategory of  only.  In that case, all the articles in  should be reviewed and double-tagged with tags indicating the purpose of the article.  It would be worth proposing (on the proposal page) such things as HongKong-rail-stub, and HongKong-railstation-stub, amongst possible others. Dawynn (talk) 11:33, 5 May 2011 (UTC)


 * New proposal can always be made, but the most efficient way out is to propose here to rename to, to reflect its actual usage since its creation. 218.250.143.151 (talk) 08:27, 7 May 2011 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the template's or category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this section.