Wikipedia:Stub types for deletion/Log/Deleted/December 2005

Helsinki-stub / Category:Helsinki stubs
Not sure why this hasn't been noticed before, but there's no WikiProject Helsinki, and in nine months this category has attracted a scant 20 stubs, most of which could easily be fitted into the hardly overpopulated. I think this one could easily be culled. Grutness...wha?  12:07, 1 December 2005 (UTC)
 * I'd noticed it, but had other things I'd rather tend to first, but since it's been nominated, delete. Caerwine 14:48, 1 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep, I don't see why a city would have to have a WikiProject in order to have its own stub. I have created many articles as Helsinki-stubs, and I feel it helps distinguish them from Finland-stubs, which could be anywhere in Finland, even in places I've never visited. I would even prefer Tampere and Turku to have their own stubs. &mdash; J I P | Talk 15:08, 1 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete, they are too few. Conscious 17:52, 1 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete; I'm becoming less keen on our no subdivision-stubs without a wikiproject, but 20 stubs is too few to justify keeping either way. --Mairi 22:20, 1 December 2005 (UTC)
 * cool. Not that it matters much; I find it surprising just how insignificant matters people deal with here, following a formal sexual procedure. In any case, some justification for my opinion: 1) I'm quite sure that there are _lots_ more articles in en.wiki that could be labeled as Helsinki stubs, but haven't been yet, 2) not all the articles fit "Finland geography stubs": some of them are about restaurants and other miscellaneous places of interest, for example. --Jonik 19:36, 11 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Comment: If the Helsinki-stub template and category are deleted, the Helsinki stubs that aren't about geography can be made into Finland stubs. But I still stand by my keep vote. &mdash; J I P | Talk 12:29, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
 * 'delete 20? a good editor shouldve cleared it by now! BL   kiss the lizard  01:47, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

As it happened there were only five non-geographical stubs anyway, all of which now have finland-stub plus a "type"-stub (e.g., restaurant-stub). Grutness...wha?  06:06, 17 December 2005 (UTC).

It was suggested that the category be renamed.
 * Rename to Caerwine 21:35, 2 December 2005 (UTC)
 * rename. Grutness...wha?  00:31, 3 December 2005 (UTC)
 * rename User:Bcorr 21:14, 5 December 2005 (UTC)
 * rename Zach 00:07, 6 December 2005 (UTC)
 * rename more appropriate.--Alhutch 23:29, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

Maryland-Stub &
It was suggested that the stub be deleted instead.
 * Delete No WikiProject and only 4 stubs. At a minimum the template needs renaming, even if kept.
 * Delete. May be useful later, but not now if there are only four stubs. Grutness...wha?  00:31, 3 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Comment: I found 93 suitable stubs relating to Maryland (ignoring biography articles). So it could certainly be of sufficient size. Whether we want state stubs is a different matter. --Mairi 03:58, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

It was suggested that the category be renamed.
 * Rename to to mirror non-stub category. Caerwine
 * Rename Grutness...wha?  00:31, 3 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Rename per nom. Youngamerican 13:56, 7 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Rename --Valentinian 20:46, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

Salvador-stub &
It was suggested that the stub be renamed as well.
 * Rename to ElSalvador-stub & Caerwine 21:35, 2 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Rename - for once, Caerwine and I seem to be pretty much in agreement! :) Grutness...wha?  00:31, 3 December 2005 (UTC)

Hong-Kong-stub &
It was suggested that the template be renamed as well.
 * Rename to HongKong-stub & . Keep HK-stub as a redirect. Caerwine 21:35, 2 December 2005 (UTC)
 * rename. no objection to HK-stub either. Grutness...wha?  00:31, 3 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Rename the template as HK-stub. Keep the others as redirects. &mdash; Instantnood 17:05, 8 December 2005 (UTC)
 * '''rename as HongKong-stub and keep HK-stub but delete Hong-Kong-stub. BL   kiss the lizard  09:55, 11 December 2005 (UTC)

TODO: 1) Change all Hong-Kong-stub to HongKong-stub 2) Move everything else out of the -related category. --TheParanoidOne 16:07, 14 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Done --TheParanoidOne 18:45, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

PNG-stub &
It was suggested that the stub be deleted instead.
 * Comment Only 24 stubs, the same as Nauru (see above) but unlike Nauri there's considerable potential for more stubs and it has a geography stub category with 76 stubs. I'm neutral on keeping it, but if kept, it should be renamed PapuaNewGuinea-stub &, with PNG-stub kept as a redirect. Caerwine 21:58, 2 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep - this has enough potential. I've no real qualms about PNG-stub, either, since it's a very widely used abbreviation, though perhaps keeping it as the redirect only is better. Grutness...wha?  00:31, 3 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep, possibly rename. Firstly, there's plenty of potential for more, and it's a perfectly worthy stub topic. Secondly, I'm fairly sure that the current category is far from comprehensive; I do a bit of work in the area, and I think there's quite a few stubs in the area that just haven't been tagged. Ambi 03:22, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

Template kept. Category renamed. --TheParanoidOne 06:45, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

Category:Guyana-related stubs
Renamed to "Guyana stubs". See complete discussion here. --TheParanoidOne 18:56, 27 December 2005 (UTC)

JewHist-stub &
It was suggested that the template be renamed as well.


 * A definite rename of the category to so as match the parent catgeory.  Could live with any of Jewish-history-stub Jewish-hist-stub, Hebrew-stub, or Hebrew-hist-stub.  The latter two have a slight advantage of separating the ethnicity form the religion, but they also get a conontation for certain branches of Christian theology that would be both too narrow and too POV that could be problematic, so I have no firm opinon as to which if the three if any would be preferable. Caerwine 21:44, 2 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Caerwine: You are mistaken, one huge problem with applying the word "Hebrew" is that it will be confused with the Hebrew language, so do NOT use "Hebrew" here no matter what you do! I am the original creator of this stub and based it on the fact that it begins with the article Jew, and Jews are both a religion and an ethnicity, so I do not understand your "worries" here. Also, If you must, then Jewish-hist-stub is better. IZAK 09:52, 6 December 2005 (UTC)
 * rename cat, and rename template to Jewish-hist-stub, since we use hist, not history. The other suggestions overlap too much with other template names in thsi confusing part of the stubbiverse. Grutness...wha?  00:31, 3 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Grutness, I do not understand what you say, what "category" should be "renamed"? What's wrong with Category:Jewish history-related stubs??? IZAK 09:52, 6 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Like all other stub categories which contained the word "-related", it needs to be renamed to simply ""Jewish history stubs". And since all the other history stub templates use the form xxx-hist-stub, this should be Jewish-hist-stub. No-one is talking about getting rid of the category and stub, simply renaming them to be like all the others. Grutness...wha?  11:22, 6 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Grutness's explanation now makes sense of this. IZAK 11:37, 6 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep because the stub is fine, as explained in my comments to Caerwine and Grutness above. IZAK 09:52, 6 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Rename to Jewish-hist-stub (as I already partly-indicated above in my initial response in any case -- just that I was concerned about possible gross mishandling of this important stub). I am changing my vote, assured by Grutness's explanation to me at User talk:IZAK IZAK 11:37, 6 December 2005 (UTC) : "Hi IZAK - you seem to be confused about what is happening at SFD. No-one is talking about getting rid of the template and category, simply renaming them to be in line with the stub naming conventions. All that means is that JewHist-stub and would become Jewish-hist-stub and . It would be a bit silly having this category as "xxx-related stubs" when all the others are "xxx stubs" (which they will be within a week), or having "JewHist-stub" when all other history stub subcategory templates are of the form xxx-hist-stub. I'd ask you to please reconsider your vote. Grutness...<small style="color:#008822;">wha?  11:21, 6 December 2005 (UTC)" Thanks for the input. IZAK 11:40, 6 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Rename to Jewish history stubs. JFW | T@lk  10:08, 6 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Clear keep, and Definite oppose to the deletion of the stubcat. I realize some people are hypersensitive about the use of "Jew" as an adjective...clearly neither IZAK nor I object to it, and we're two of the most recognizable of the Jew-POV-face of WP, so to the rest of youse, I say, "chill out already!" (and I'm not even ashkenazi!!!)  Yeah, the stub name isn't politically correct, but it wasn't meant to be either politically correct or incorrect...it was meant to be used as a shorthand for NPOV editors of Jewish history related stubs and articles.  Chill out w/ the hypersensitivity, leave the stub and its name alone, and leave the stub cat intact.  Tom e r<sup style="font-variant: small-caps; color: #129dbc!important;">talk  10:33, 6 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Changing to rename per Grutness' and Humus' responses to IZAK's recommendation. Tom<font color="#008000"&gt;e r<sup style="font-variant: small-caps; color: #129dbc!important;">talk  19:39, 6 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Err, Tomer...I am not guilty of "Jew-POV-face" on WP -- I happen to be one of the best NPOV editors on WP of topics relating to Jews and Judaism, and I know that you are also that as well (so I will attribute your playful comments about me here to your inherently upbeat personality, and nothing else.) IZAK 10:40, 6 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep your chin up. :-D  Tom e r<sup style="font-variant: small-caps; color: #129dbc!important;">talk  19:39, 6 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Whatever you do, do not rename into Hebrews and do not attempt to separate ethnicity from religion for an ethno-religious group. I also don't have a problem with "Jew***". &larr;Humus sapiens&larr;ну? 10:44, 6 December 2005 (UTC)
 * I would tend to rename to Jewish-hist-stub, but JewHist-stub seems fine to me. Category seems fine to me as either or . Absolute no on "Hebrew" which in contemporary English mainly means the language, not the people. - Jmabel | Talk 19:52, 6 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Rename as per Grutness and Humus Sapiens. Jayjg <sup style="color:darkgreen;">(talk)  23:13, 6 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Rename as it makes the category names consistent with each other. gidonb 02:43, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

TODO: "JewHist-stub" -> "Jewish-hist-stub". --TheParanoidOne 20:47, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

update : Itlooks as though this discussion ended, and the necessary changes were made. Are there any loose ends, or can this discussion be archived? --EncycloPetey 06:57, 26 December 2005 (UTC)
 * You can now. it still had to be orphaned and the original name deleted. That's now been done. Grutness...<small style="color:#008822;">wha?  09:00, 26 December 2005 (UTC)

Azerbaijan-stub &
It was suggested that the stub be deleted instead.
 * Delete Too few stubs. Caerwine 21:35, 2 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Well, I suppose there are not that many stubs, because I created the category not a few weeks ago. Where I suppose to put Azebaijan-related stubs, that are not Category:Azerbaijan geography stubs? I suggest merging Category:Azerbaijan geography stubs into the Category:Azerbaijan-related stubs abakharev 23:32, 2 December 2005 (UTC)
 * There's also Azeri-stub (same scope, seperate template) and Azeri (redirect) which should go, regardless of what happens with this. --Mairi 00:24, 3 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete Azeri-stub and Azeri, redirect Azerbaijan-stub to caucasus-stub (which is the answer to your question, Alex!) Grutness...<small style="color:#008822;">wha?  00:31, 3 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep. How are people supposed to fill gaps in our coverage of underrepresented countries such as Azerbaijan if they can't find said gaps? Ambi 03:22, 9 December 2005 (UTC)
 * As with Nauru, above, the answer is that editors able to extend Azerbaijan articles are very likely to be able to also extend articles on Georgia and Armenia, and as such, having these articles in one moderately populated category rather than three sparsely populated categories helps them, as well as making in more rather than less likely that the articles will be edited, since an editor who - for example - knows a lot about Armenia but a slight amount about Azerbaijan would see these articles listed when they might not otherwise have seen them at all. Grutness...<small style="color:#008822;">wha?  03:38, 10 December 2005 (UTC)
 * delete and merge with caucasus-stub. BL   kiss the lizard  09:52, 11 December 2005 (UTC)

Summary: Template redirected to Caucasus-stub. Category deleted. --TheParanoidOne 22:28, 27 December 2005 (UTC)

RC-stub &
It was suggested that both the template and the category be renamed.
 * Rename to RomanCatholic-stub & Caerwine 21:35, 2 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Either rename as per Caerwine or expand scope and rename simply as catholic-stub. Grutness...<small style="color:#008822;">wha?  00:31, 3 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Rename as per Caerwine. Oppose a rescope, without being much clearer about what the new scope would be.  Alai 06:35, 4 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Either Rename to Catholic-stub per Grutness if acceptable (see objections claiming that secular understanding includes all other sects claiming 'Catholic' name), else Retain as is. But, seriously, how long will this vote be? Be quick, this is looking awkward! WikiSceptic 14:37, 6 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Rename as per Caerwine --SockpuppetSamuelson 14:40, 6 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Retain RC-stub and rename  The scope of this should be as it is now, Catholic Church related stubs, not other Catholic sects or offshoots. Dominick (TALK) 15:32, 7 December 2005 (UTC)
 * rename Caerwine explained the reasoning. I can live with it. RC-stub is easy to type though. Dominick (TALK) 17:59, 7 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep RC-stub but create sub-stub like Catholic texts, Catholic theologian, Catholic buildings, etc. -- Psy guy Talk 20:01, 12 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep the stub name as there are over 800 pages that have used it. Rename the category if there is an automated/bot way of fixing up the pages. -- Fplay 13:36, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
 * comment - there is, and it's exacly the same amount of work to change a template and category as it is to change a category alone. So if that's the only objection, it's not that relevant... Grutness...<small style="color:#008822;">wha?  06:19, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

Summary: Template remained as RC-stub, category renamed to (RomanCatholic-stub was created as a redirect tho). --Mairi 06:57, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

Galicia * stubs

 * Galicia-stub / Category:Galicia-related stubs (28 articles)
 * Galicia-bio-stub / Category:Galician people stubs (13 articles)
 * Galicia-geo-stub / Category:Galicia geography stubs (1 article)
 * Galicia-writer-stub / Category:Galician writer stubs (5 articles)

To quote Mairi at WP:WSS/D: ''A variant of the first one (Galician-stub) was deleted a month ago, so that could be speedied. However, it's the only one of these that looks possibly viable; but there's still the issue of how to distinguish that these are for the Spanish Galicia and not the Ukrainian/Polish Galicia.''

These stubs accompany a brand new WikiProject... but, as the boilerplate text for making WikiProjects states, "DO NOT simply create new stub templates, as these will probably be deleted". QED. The first of these templates is potentially viable, and there is a proposal on the table for splitting Spain's geography stubs (though it is far from clear that this would be the best way). The others are unnecessary, as the parent Spanish categories are nowhere near splittable level (270 Spanish people-stubs and 54 Spanish writer-stubs, even including the Galician ones!). In any case Spain-bio-stub wouldn't be split by region but by occupation. Given that there is a WikiProject, a simple galicia-stub (or GaliciaES-stub, perhaps?) is probably worthwhile, leading into a category called, but the others should be merged with it and then deleted. Grutness...<small style="color:#008822;">wha?  03:09, 3 December 2005 (UTC)


 * A definite delete on all but the root Galician stub unless a lot more can can be found.  I'd prefer  GaliciaSpain-stub &  but could live with Galicia-stub since judging by the difference between the numbers of articles that feed into the categories of the two Galicias, it will be a long time, if ever, before a Galicia-Lodomeria stub be needed. Caerwine 04:52, 3 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Delete all but root temp&cat, merging thereto. Alai 07:15, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

Logging note: All except first item deleted. This discussion has been added to the Not Deleted section as well, for completion. --TheParanoidOne 11:53, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

Netball-stub / Netball stubs
Another one for pruning. <10 items for several months, as per this diff. The 5 stubs in the category should go back into Sports stubs. --TheParanoidOne 22:52, 4 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep. It's a perfectly legitimate stub category, and the only reason there's less than ten stubs is because I don't believe in creating masses of stubs; I prefer to write long articles (am I going to have to do this to get this kept?). Interested parties need to be able to find stubs in their area. Ambi 23:15, 4 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom. Few stubs generally indicate either that the subject is of low interest or low expansion capability. I doubt the latter, but am uncertain of the former.  Caerwine 03:23, 5 December 2005 (UTC)
 * its not big in a lot of countries but theres a lot of interest where it is (like NZ, Australia, England, South Africa and Jamaica). delete now but might need it later.  BL   kiss the lizard  05:00, 5 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom. Also, 4 of the 5 stubs have been tagged with this since June. --Mairi 03:57, 5 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. Sorry, Ambi, but that's pretty much a "I find this useful" vote.  A (very short) list would suffice to keep track of these, and they might well be more likely to be expanded in a somewhat broader category.  Many (many) more stubs would help, as would a wikiproject (as well).  If there's a feasible broader category that'd cover this, be more viable, and fit within sports stubs, I'd be fine with rescoping, but I can't think of a sensible basis to do that.  Alai 08:15, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

journal-stub &
The stub has been on the proposals page long enough that it was creatible, but the name of the template and the scope of the category don't match up with the discussion. I recommend that we rename the template to sci-journal-stub as was discussed in the proposal since the 128 stubs placed in the category clearly show that it is large enough and then create a new journal-stub &rarr; &rarr;  to serve for journals in the other academic disciplines. Caerwine 06:34, 4 December 2005 (UTC)


 * I agree about moving journal-stub to sci-journal-stub. I will restub all the articles in the category. Bmdavll talk 06:42, 4 December 2005 (UTC)
 * I support Caerwine's suggestions. Grutness...<small style="color:#008822;">wha?  00:46, 5 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Agree there's a mismatch here, but I'm not convinced we need a separate category for non-science peer-reviewed journals; would this even hit threshold?  In the permanent categories, scientific journals are a large, hierarchical category, and the others are all teeny.  What about, we rescope journal-stub to peer-reviewed journals in general, accordingly rename category to  (as per permie) or  if we want to be super-clear.  If these are larger than they appear after creation and sorting down, we can re-split at a later date.  Alai 05:08, 6 December 2005 (UTC)
 * I just did a census of the first column of the first page and found 6 stubs suitable for a general journal stub category and an additional one suitable for the science journal one. Assuming the rest of the category keeps that same rough proportion, it looks like there are about 70 non-science journal stubs.  I won't promise 60 stubs, but it won't be too badly underpopulated in even a worst case. Caerwine <small style="font-family:sans-serif;color:darkred;">Caerwhine  06:45, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

Futurama stub
For a specific television series; used on 10 articles, lacks a category. However, there's no wikiproject and it's unlikely there's near 50 stubs at present, so it ought to be deleted. Even if kept, it needs to be hyphenated. --Mairi 07:35, 5 December 2005 (UTC)
 * A clear-cut delete in any millennium. Alai 08:08, 5 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep Useful to segregate these stubs so those particularly interested in he show can easily identify them The JPS 14:50, 11 December 2005 (UTC)
 * delete therell never be enough stubs for this to be a useful split. BL   kiss the lizard  00:36, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

Catalonia-bio-stub (no cat)
As per Galicia, below - the parent Spain bio-stub category has under 300 articles, and bio-stubs aren't split by subnational regions - even ones that used to be nations. The one stub marked with this could easily be double-stubbed with Spian-bio-stub and Catalonia-stub Grutness...<small style="color:#008822;">wha?  05:08, 5 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Send Catalonia-bio-stub to catatonia. Caerwine 05:30, 5 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. Alai 08:08, 5 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Not sure on this. I understand what people are trying to avoid here, but a different set of people are liable to try working on Catalan-related stubs. And not all of historical Catalonia is in Spain, some is in France. -- Jmabel | Talk 19:54, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

Kosovo-stub / no cat
Was rejected as a proposal at WP:WSS/P only a month ago for various reasons: lack of stubs, the name issue (Kosova or Kosovo?), and the uncertain status of the place (to quote an anon at WP:WSS/D). Delete Grutness...<small style="color:#008822;">wha?  00:46, 5 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom Caerwine 03:23, 5 December 2005 (UTC) making certain I add the ~ this time
 * Delete, with WSS/P-related griping. Alai 08:08, 5 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete --Valentinian 22:56, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

UKW-geo-stub and UKS-geo-stub (redirects)
Probably about time these redirects went, now that there's a bot that can clear them. They were only ever intended to be temporary anyway. Grutness...<small style="color:#008822;">wha?  00:56, 5 December 2005 (UTC)
 * delete per nom. Caerwine 03:23, 5 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. One of our more horrible redirects, and self-inflicted, at that!  Alai 08:08, 5 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep possibly useful redirects. --SPUI (talk) 20:22, 5 December 2005 (UTC)
 * As distinct from these ones? I don't follow how these are potentially useful, even if we buy into the argument that editors won't recall the convention behind or distinction between UK-stub and uk-stub, or Scotland-stub and Scotland stub.  Who's ever going to "accidentally" use UKS-geo-stub?  Alai 04:46, 6 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. per nom. --Mais oui! 20:37, 5 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep would think it useful
 * previous comment by User:Yale College
 * Technically, as creator and only editor of these stubs I could have speedied their deletion. These names don't conform to the stub naming conventions, and - with all due respect - perhaps editors with a few more edits than you are more able to judge whether these really are useful. Grutness...<small style="color:#008822;">wha?  13:49, 6 December 2005 (UTC)
 * WP:BITE, please don't forget it. Conscious 20:44, 7 December 2005 (UTC)
 * I remembered, which was why I was (I thought) being polite. I could have mentioned that his/her four previous edits had not had anything to do with stub-sorting - or Scotland or Wales, for that matter - and made an accusation of sockpuppetry based on that. Instead, I assumed good faith and simply commented - politely - that given his/her newness here, he/she might not yet be up-to-speed on whether these redirects meet requirements. Grutness...<small style="color:#008822;">wha?  05:51, 8 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete - Who is going to type these in? --Cel e stianpower hablamé 20:42, 6 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete a.s.a.p. Saga City 16:22, 7 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete as per nom. Conscious 20:41, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

Category:Malta-related stubs
This one was approved by WSS/P, but the category uses *-related. I say we speedy this one. Aecis praatpaal 21:52, 6 December 2005 (UTC)
 * I followed the guidelines.. WikiProject_Stub_sorting/Naming_guidelines conflicts with what I read (searching for it) Srl 22:29, 6 December 2005 (UTC)
 * think i found it. Stub said either x stubs or x-related stubs was ok. ive changed it. BL   kiss the lizard  23:26, 6 December 2005 (UTC)
 * agree. I've created the new category and fixed the template.. searching for the guideline pages  that i followed   Srl 22:37, 6 December 2005 (UTC)
 * I speedied it, since the template and pages have been corrected to the new category. --Mairi 02:58, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

Massachusetts-road-stub / no cat
Partway through the xx-State-Highway-stub mess, Massachusetts-road-stub was created (with the sfd-t tag already on it), and with no category. It has 16 stubs in it, all of which are Massachusetts State Highways (Massachusetts State Routes, actually). Given the WPJ apparently prefers Massachusetts-State-Highway-stub, and there don't seem to be any stubs about Massachusetts highways that are not State Routes, it probably ought to be merged. Sam8 20:00, 6 December 2005 (UTC)
 * This stub was created by a user that, when he saw that Massachusetts-State-Highway-Stub was SFDed, created this stub just in case it got deleted. Since it did not get deleted, therefore I say delete. --Rschen7754 (talk - contribs) 00:22, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

Slovak-bio-stub
Slovak-bio-stub should be renamed to Slovakia-bio-stub, per the naming guidelines. Aecis praatpaal 17:56, 6 December 2005 (UTC)
 * rename per nom. Grutness...<small style="color:#008822;">wha?  01:17, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

Off-stub and
Has been on WSS/D for just over two months now. Template is used on only one article. Iff this is to be kept, it shouldn't just be expanded, but imo it should be renamed as well: the template to NYC-theat-stub and the category to (theater being the common spelling in US English). Aecis praatpaal 17:50, 6 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Theatre is perfectly fine in this case as for live acting only the -re spelling is equally common in the US and we're only talking about the category, which for the non-stub categories uniformly uses theatre. (Frankly, I would't mind dropping the theat abbreviation we've been using for theatrical stub templates in favor of theatre with a redirect from theater for the stubs that cover the US.  However if kept, we should be more ambitious in the rescope and rescope it as US-theat-stub &rarr; ([noun]  or [adjective] ) &rarr; . Caerwine <small style="font-family:sans-serif;color:darkred;">Caerwhine  00:08, 7 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Delete. Seldom used, and not really necessary. If we were going to subdivide theatre by place, then it would be by country, and given that the sole article seems to refer to a play (which could be performed anywhere), it's not really an appropriate split. BTW, that article was also a copyvio... Grutness...<small style="color:#008822;">wha?  01:17, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

ContemporaryArtStub and
Malformed, not used, category only became a blue link after I added the sfd-c notice, has been on WSS/D for over three months now. Aecis praatpaal 17:37, 6 December 2005 (UTC)
 * delete. not a particularly useful way to split art stubs anyway, and uses that nasty little word "contemporary", which has two different and often contradictory meanings. Grutness...<small style="color:#008822;">wha?  01:17, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

enyzme-stub (Redirect)
A misspelled redirect to enzyme-stub. Delete Caerwine <small style="font-family:sans-serif;color:darkred;">Caerwhine 05:08, 6 December 2005 (UTC)
 * delete (nice new sig, BTW) Grutness...<small style="color:#008822;">wha?  05:33, 6 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete, preferably speedily. Alai 05:51, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

tvhost-stub and Category:TV Show Host stubs
For "TV Show Hosts" - so I can't see any way this doesn't duplicate tv-bio-stub. I'd also argue that "host" is a pretty vague term, and not really a useful was to categorize. CDC (talk) 03:42, 6 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Agree on vagueness, would at least need tight wording to clarify. But it wouldn't duplicate tv-bio-, it'd be a sub-cat, and the (potential) parent is over-sized (7 pages).  And it seems at least potentially useful, as it'd catch "on-screen talent" (alleged) that aren't "actors" or "newsreaders", etc).  But how it's best split (by country? by role in/on TV?) is a sufficiently open-ended issue that this might be better dealt with at WP:WSS/P, regardless of what we do with this.  Alai 04:40, 6 December 2005 (UTC)
 * The TV bios need splitting, but judging from the two stubs that this has, this at the very least severely overlaps with tv-journalist-stub which has been on the proposals page (as part of a split of journalist-stub) for about a day. Even if kept, both the template and the category are in serious need of a rename. Simpler to delete and recreate if determined to be needed later. Caerwine <small style="font-family:sans-serif;color:darkred;">Caerwhine 04:50, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

India-eco-stub and
I suggest renaming to India-econ-stub and, per Caerwine on WSS/D. Aecis praatpaal 17:44, 6 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Support stub rename per above, neutral on cat rename. Youngamerican 14:00, 7 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Support for rename of stub and cat.  Da Gizza  <i style="color:orange;">Chat</i> <b style="color:gold;">(c)</b> 23:17, 7 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Support stub and cat rename. Dick Clark 18:30, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
 * support eco sounds like ecology. BL   kiss the lizard  11:51, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

ITC Entertainment Productions-stub and
Barely used, doesn't really seem viable, cuts right across the existing hierarchy. Has a Wikiproject, but doesn't have enough articles for a Wikiproject to get its own stub. Aecis praatpaal 17:41, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

Keep, with support for renaming ITV-stub or an agreed short version if necessary. -- Cjmarsicano 20:15, 7 December 2005 (UTC) Please note that Category:ITC Entertainment stubs now needs to be deleted, as a page move was not possible. It has been replaced with Category:ITC Distributions stubs as discussed above. Howie &#9742;  03:45, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep This is a newish Wikiproject, still getting off the ground. In the last three days alone, Man of the World, Seaway, The Sentimental Agent, Cannonball (series), The Buccaneers (series), The Des O'Connor Show, Bonkers!, Diver Dan, Espionage (series), The Forest Rangers, The Four Just Men and From a Bird's Eye View have all been added as stubs. These stubs are detailed but need further work - Phase 2 of the ITC Wikiproject. The stubs are distinct from other relevant stubs (TV programmes in general, for instance) as they are all for non-contemporary shows that have a distinct specialist audience (in other words, there are distinct "fans" of ITC programming). I can provide web references for whole websites devoted to ITC programming. Also, please see this list of productions that will be using the ITC stub in the near future. ➨ ❝ R  E  DVERS ❞ 18:04, 6 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep as noted, this project is still getting off the ground. Will eventually have dozens of articles (in fact already does). 23skidoo 19:51, 6 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Neutral on the category as it now has 29 stubs, but the template definitely needs a rename to fit in with the naming guidelines which specifically call for using hyphens and not spaces between the components. I'd favour ITC-tv-stub since ITC was a television production company and thus stubs relating to it and its shows belong a subtype of tv-stub and possibly UK-tv-stub.  That's another reason why you should have proposed first and created second, so as to get the stub properly named and placed in the stub heirarchy. Caerwine <small style="font-family:sans-serif;color:darkred;">Caerwhine  23:16, 6 December 2005 (UTC)
 * At the very least rename. Why don't new WikiProjects follow the rules??? Grutness...<small style="color:#008822;">wha?  01:17, 7 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep - for reasons already given. As for "new WikiProjects [not] following the rules".... perhaps if they were not so difficult to find (especially for new(ish) members who just want to get on and start helping, then perhaps they would be followed more often.  HowardBerry 08:57, 7 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Emphatic second of that -- it can be hard enough to find a Wikiproject that you know exists, let alone find clear directions on how to go about starting a new one. -- Antaeus Feldspar 15:03, 11 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Rename to ITC-tv-stub . I think the Wikiproject will find this template name much more convenient. Conscious 14:46, 7 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Comment The rename option isn't that helpful to the project - if you look at this list you'll see that ITC did more than TV series. If we rename, it will simply spawn 1 or 2 more stubs to make up for the productions the stub doesn't cover. ➨ ❝ R E  DVERS ❞ 15:29, 7 December 2005 (UTC)
 * ITC-stub is too ambiguous, so that is not an option. ITC-Entertainment-stub I suppose would be an option and it would parallel the main article ITC Entertainment while following the naming guidelines. Probably should join Disney-stub as a child of corp-stub with the expanded scope. Caerwine <small style="font-family:sans-serif;color:darkred;">Caerwhine 16:52, 7 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Regarding Redvers' comment above: I completely agree that renaming this to be a TV stub is not going to work/be productive. ITC did more than television productions - they were also a film production company and a distribution company.   A more suitable rename would not include TV or Film, but rename it to something relevant to media in general.  HowardBerry 16:58, 7 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Can you think of a template name that would comply with naming guidelines, be precise and descriptive, and as convenient as possible? I don't like the current name - it's too long, and not standard. What about ITCEntertainmentProductions-stub or ITCEntertainment-stub?
 * Perhaps ITCDistributions-stub would be acceptable? HowardBerry 20:11, 7 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Comment I'd go for ITCDistributions-stub or ITC-Distributions-stub. I don't know where ITV-stub came from, though: ITC shows were specifically not ITV shows; they just happened to usually (but by no means always) be shown on ITV in the UK thanks to ATV's ownership of ITC. In the main, they were produced in order to sell them into syndication in the United States - the UK sales were a by-product. ➨ ❝ R E  DVERS ❞ 20:28, 7 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep the category has it has more than enough now for a Wikiproject stub. Rename to ITCEntertainment-stub. (Where is "ITC Distributions" coming from as an idea for a name? That doesn't even exist as a redirect in Wikipedia?) Caerwine <small style="font-family:sans-serif;color:darkred;">Caerwhine  10:59, 10 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Comment. ITC Distributions is the description we're using in the Wikiproject. The project started as being about ITC productions, but once the can was open, the worms got everywhere: ITC was a producer, financer and distributor and the line is rarely very clear. The term "An ITC World-Wide Distribution" is seen on a lot of ITC and ATV programmes - it was a phrase carefully chosen by the Independent Television Authority to ensure that ITC stuff was held at arms-length from ATV's stuff. All of this is very complex and very difficult to explain (that's why there's no article explaining it). It's also not a particularly likely search term for readers - and many editors here have an embolism if you create a redirect that they don't think it's likely anyone will search for - whether they know the subject or not. ➨ ❝ R E  DVERS ❞ 11:12, 10 December 2005 (UTC)
 * I'm not one to have embolisms over redirects in article space. (In template space I might, but not article space.) About the only ones I worry about there are those which correct multiple mistakes at the same time. That said, I wouldn't favor ITCDistributions-stub unless the cat were also changed to   Don't really care what you decide to call yourselves or the stub type as long as the stub follows the naming guidelines and is not ambiguous. As noted, ITC-stub would be too ambiguous. Caerwine <small style="font-family:sans-serif;color:darkred;">Caerwhine  11:36, 10 December 2005 (UTC)
 * I'm all for changing it all to follow the ITC Distributions name as standard. Howie &#9742;  13:31, 10 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep, but would also support shortening the stub's name to something more convenient. The JPS 14:48, 11 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Comment: I don't know how this process completes, but if no one has any objections, would it now be ok to rename this stub and category (and any relevant pages (if any)) to follow the name ITC Distributions as standard? Howie &#9742;  15:44, 11 December 2005 (UTC)
 * SFD is supposed to take a week (it sometimes take longer due to lag or lack of consensus, but the latter at least doesn't seem to apply here.) Since the nomination was on the 6th, the change can be done starting on the 13th. Caerwine <small style="font-family:sans-serif;color:darkred;">Caerwhine  15:05, 12 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Excellent! Thanks very much.  I'll change the names now! Howie  &#9742;  02:42, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

ST-ep-stub
I believe that this one, albeit poetic, is a bit too ambiguous. ST isn't just the abbreviation of Star Trek, it's also the ISO country code for São Tomé and Príncipe, the ISO language code for Sesotho and the NATO country code for Saint Lucia. EP is usually used for the European parliament or extended play music recordings. I propose renaming this to StarTrek-episode-stub. Aecis praatpaal 23:16, 6 December 2005 (UTC)
 * I'm half inclined to suggest that we up merge this one into ST-stub instead (which also needs a rename) At around 400 stubs the combined stub type would not be overlarge.  All the Star Trek episode stubs have "(X episode)" [where X refers to the particular series] at the end of the article name so it's not as if the episodes need a separate stub stype to be distinguishable and no other series has a seperate episode stub type. Caerwine <small style="font-family:sans-serif;color:darkred;">Caerwhine  00:56, 7 December 2005 (UTC)


 * upmerging would indeed be a reasonable thing to do. If not, then definitely rename Grutness...<small style="color:#008822;">wha?  01:17, 7 December 2005 (UTC)
 * On a second glance, the size of these categories is fairly substantial - 250 and 140 articles for St and ST-ep respectively. Perhaps a simple rename is the better option after all. Grutness...<small style="color:#008822;">wha?  10:04, 8 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Normally, I would agree with you except that every single Star Trek episode stub ends with " episode)" in the article title, as is specified by the naming convention for episode articles of the Star Trek WikiProject. With the distinction being already made obvious, I personally would only see a reason to split off the episodes if the category were {verylarge} which at 400 stubs it is not.  I've left a note on the Star Trek WikiProject talk page about this, so hopefuly we'll get some response about this from those who would be most likely to use these stubs for the intended purpose of finding articles that need improvement. Caerwine <small style="font-family:sans-serif;color:darkred;">Caerwhine  21:34, 8 December 2005 (UTC)
 * upmerge to a renamed StarTrek-Stub as per User:Caerwine. DES (talk) 18:45, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
 * upmerge BL   kiss the lizard  11:51, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

ST-stub
Rename As mentioned below in the discussion for ST-ep-stub, this stub, which predates the naming guidelines, should be brought into compliance with the naming guidelines as StarTrek-stub. Caerwine <small style="font-family:sans-serif;color:darkred;">Caerwhine 17:10, 7 December 2005 (UTC)
 * rename. Either that or make it a redirect to saint-stub to confuse the trekkies >:) Grutness...<small style="color:#008822;">wha?  05:26, 8 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Comment Considering the reverence with which some of them hold the trinity of Kirk, Spock, and McCoy, they might think such a redirect was appropriate [[Image:Smile.png|16px]] Caerwine <small style="font-family:sans-serif;color:darkred;">Caerwhine 15:32, 8 December 2005 (UTC)
 * I don't see any naming conflict issues. It's ST-stub for Star Trek stubs and St-stub for saint stubs (can stubs really be canonicised?). If you by any chance think the current title is wrong, by all means rename and redirect to StarTrek-stub. &mdash; <font color="#CC0000">J <font color="#00CC00">I <font color="#0000CC">P | Talk 12:10, 9 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Canonize by renaming as proposed. Conscious 13:20, 9 December 2005 (UTC)
 * rename - Hayter 11:25, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

Category:Stubs needing attention
A tad redundant, methinks. --TheParanoidOne 22:31, 8 December 2005 (UTC)
 * a tad speedied :) Grutness...<small style="color:#008822;">wha?  23:42, 8 December 2005 (UTC)
 * twice :( Grutness...<small style="color:#008822;">wha?  00:13, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

Category:Nazi Germany stub articles &rarr; Category:Nazi Germany stubs
Remove the "articles" part of the name, as it's redundant. --TheParanoidOne 23:12, 8 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Rename per nom. Caerwine <small style="font-family:sans-serif;color:darkred;">Caerwhine 03:10, 9 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Rename. Alai 04:06, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

Kurdistan-geo-stub / Category:Kurdistan geography stubs
For one thing, Kurdistan can refer to several different geographic areas, some of which cut across countries. Even if it just refers to the region in Iraq, Category:Iraq geography stubs has only 81 articles; also, Category:Kurdistan has only 21 articles. So it's quite unlikely to be large enough. Delete. --Mairi 02:45, 8 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete We've been fairly strict about restricting the partioning of geo stubs along current de jure subdivisions. The only such area that this stub could conceivably refer to would be that of Kurdistan Province, Iran.  The Iran geo stubs at 255 are more numerous than Iraq's, but I don't see 60 stubs for Iranian Kurdistan there. Caerwine <small style="font-family:sans-serif;color:darkred;">Caerwhine  05:08, 8 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete agreed. geo-stubs that don't use current official borders are just asking for edit wars, too. Grutness...<small style="color:#008822;">wha?  05:25, 8 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete, per nom. Alai 04:06, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

EuroHist-stub
Unused malformed redirect of Euro-hist-stub. Delete. Grutness...<small style="color:#008822;">wha?  10:00, 8 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete as per nom. Caerwine <small style="font-family:sans-serif;color:darkred;">Caerwhine 15:28, 8 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete Alai 04:06, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

geoscience-bio-stub
I can't see any reason why this ungainly stub template shouldn't be geoscientist-stub instead. Caerwine <small style="font-family:sans-serif;color:darkred;">Caerwhine 16:33, 8 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Hey, I created it and that sounds like a better name to me. I have no problem with the change. Rename --<font face="Courier"><font color="#66CD00">Etacar11   16:36, 8 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Rename Alai 04:06, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

UT-stub, UT-bio-stub, and UT-geo-stub (Redirects)
These are all redirects to stubs from the Utah WikiProject, and said project doesn't even mention them (save on the talk page thereof). We don't need and shouldn't want a postal abbreviation here as a special case, so delete all three. Caerwine <small style="font-family:sans-serif;color:darkred;">Caerwhine 03:07, 8 December 2005 (UTC)
 * A case could be made for the ease of using an abbreviation for Massachusetts or North Carolina, due to the name's length - but even then it would be against stub naming guidelines. But Utah? Make them type an extra two letters! Grutness...<small style="color:#008822;">wha?  05:25, 8 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Keep; no reason to delete. --SPUI (talk) 07:25, 8 December 2005 (UTC)
 * delete no reason to keep and reasons not to UT could be utrehct (sp?) or united states territories or tanzania (officialy United Tanzania). BL   kiss the lizard  07:41, 8 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Utrecht, BL ;) Delete btw. Aecis praatpaal 12:11, 11 December 2005 (UTC)
 * i was close :) BL   kiss the lizard  04:58, 12 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete Alai 04:06, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

Europe-mil-stub
Somehow, when this one was made, it was made with "Europe" rather than the standard "Euro"". Rename to the more standard Euro-mil-stub. Grutness...<small style="color:#008822;">wha?  10:00, 8 December 2005 (UTC)
 * We might wish to get into a debate over whether we should be using a four letter abbreviation for a six letter word, but that should be handled at the bottom of the proposals page, not here. Delete Caerwine <small style="font-family:sans-serif;color:darkred;">Caerwhine  15:28, 8 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete I don't think we need an extra stub to add to a thousand pages. --Valentinian 22:57, 8 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Rename as per nom. Also, totally confused as to why we have two delete votes on a rename nom.  Obviously a case of write-in democracy in action, but makes actual consensus bogglingly hard to determine if it stays like this.  (Not to say, argues for separate sfd/sfr templates...)  Possibly keep redirect.  Alai 05:56, 11 December 2005 (UTC)
 * What I meant was Rename to Euro-mil-stub and Delete the redirect. Caerwine <small style="font-family:sans-serif;color:darkred;">Caerwhine 12:26, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Ah! Alai 06:12, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

District Of Columbia-stub
While we can argue the pros and cons of whether we should have specific state-stubs (or in this case, district-stub) without WikiProjects, this does need a rename. User:Karmafist merrily created this and Virginia-stub without reference to WP:WSS/P, and the redirect below. Personally, I'm definitely softening on the "no project, no stub" stance" (and have called for debate at the foot of WP:WSS/P about it) but this needs a rename. Grutness...<small style="color:#008822;">wha?  00:13, 9 December 2005 (UTC) I have no problem with renaming it, but let's make a redirect there to whatever the new stub is. The newcomers and non-cruftinators will be turned off to putting stubs on articles as guideposts to let others know that they're small and need to be improved, which is their only purpose anyway other than perhaps methods of categorization. There's no need to propose anything when it can just be done. karmafist 03:42, 9 December 2005 (UTC)
 * There's also the problem of the capital "O". This stub needs a possibly lengthy discussion on the proposals page before it gets approved.  Simply delete this one now until we can decide whether to name this DistrictofColumbia-stub or WashingtonDC-stub. Caerwine <small style="font-family:sans-serif;color:darkred;">Caerwhine  03:18, 9 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Yes Grutness, I sang a little song on my merry little way. La la la...
 * As long as you remember to not be reckless. Creating new stub types is just the type of thing the be bold page advises editors to be cautious about as it is an action with widespread effects. Caerwine <small style="font-family:sans-serif;color:darkred;">Caerwhine  05:03, 9 December 2005 (UTC)
 * If there are any issues, then something like the proposal page is warranted to gain consensus on what needs to be done to fix any problems. This little stub isn't hurting anybody, and it doesn't hurt to have it at least as a redirect to the actual stub for the newbies/people who don't regularly stub articles related to it and will find something else to do if it's too complicated. karmafist 16:04, 9 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Consensus has already been established and is reflected in the naming guidelines for stubs. Changing that guideline requires a proposal not the arbitrary creation of stubs that ignore those guidelines. Caerwine <small style="font-family:sans-serif;color:darkred;">Caerwhine  17:41, 9 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Where was this consensus? When was it recognized? How many people agreed to it? Was it assumed to be in a well trafficked area of Wikipedia so other Wikipedians had notice that an attempt at consensus was being acquired? I don't know it, but I can bet you that it's not at the level of WP:AFD or WP:RFA or the ilk, which I consider acceptable. Please. Let me feel like this isn't being decided in some dark smoke filled room somewhere and that I won't have to jump through a large series of hoops or be stomped upon by some bureaucracy to help the articles that interest me. karmafist 00:26, 10 December 2005 (UTC)
 * It's on Naming conventions. If that's not a prominent enough place, where would you prefer, the Main Page, perhaps? Grutness...<small style="color:#008822;">wha?  03:16, 10 December 2005 (UTC)
 * And who decided what the naming conventions are, hmmm? karmafist 17:49, 11 December 2005 (UTC)
 * anyone who came along to discus them when it was advertised on the naming convention page that it was going on. lots of people did but you obviously werent intrested then. BL  &lt;small> kiss the lizard  04:50, 12 December 2005 (UTC)
 * If it's at all like the 12 people who decided to create WP:SFD, you'll forgive me if I'm non-plussed. —Locke Cole 08:08, 12 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Presumably not many people debated that simply because no-one objected to it. If the stub naming guidelines are as contentious as some people seem to suggest, there would surely have been loads of objections. Consider too how many people use these naming guidelines. There are over 100 people in the stub-sorting wikiproject alone, not to mention countless others in other wikiprojects around wikipedia who are more than happy to abide by them. Grutness...<small style="color:#008822;">wha?  08:48, 12 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete as per my explanation above. If the systems needs to be reformed, then reform it rather than ignore it. Jokermage "Timor Mentum Occidit" 08:10, 12 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete as per User:Jokermage. DES (talk) 18:38, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep as a redirect. --SPUI (talk) 01:16, 23 December 2005 (UTC)

Rename
As with the Nazi stub below, the category needs a rename to end in the standard " stubs" as Caerwine <small style="font-family:sans-serif;color:darkred;">Caerwhine  04:55, 9 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Do we even need ? It's only ever had a few dozen stubs, and if the London ones were in (where they'd probably see more action) it would reduce it  to about 40 stubs in total. I wouldn't object if this one was deleted. But failing that, yes, a rename would be useful. Grutness...<small style="color:#008822;">wha?  14:10, 9 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Isn't this already covered by the bars in restaurant-stub? Aecis praatpaal 19:01, 9 December 2005 (UTC)
 * There 59 stubs in this category. Weak delete, but rename if kept. Conscious 15:22, 9 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Rename as per nom. Alai 04:02, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

Denmark_bio-stub / Category:Denmark biographical stubs
Duplicate (except the word "Denmark" rather than "Danish") of Denmark-bio-stub and Category:Danish people stubs. Was only used by three articles, and I've assigned those to the correct stub.
 * Delete per nom. --Valentinian 10:40, 10 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom. It's too bad that this isn't speediable as a duplicate of an existing stub. Caerwine <small style="font-family:sans-serif;color:darkred;">Caerwhine 10:48, 10 December 2005 (UTC)

Newhampshire-stub (redirect)
Guess who? Delete. This is getting ridiculous. Karmafist seems determined to single-handedly stop all stub-sorting by having spend all our time hunting for his new creations. Grutness...<small style="color:#008822;">wha?  23:49, 10 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom. Caerwine <small style="font-family:sans-serif;color:darkred;">Caerwhine 00:46, 11 December 2005 (UTC)
 * I feel that your comment about Karmafist is unwarrented. This stub redirect was originally created on December 6, which is before the other NH stub redirect was nominated for deletion. It is not a new creation. At worst, it is merely an previously unknown part of the original case. That being said, Delete. I don't think we in the NH project need that many stubs. Jokermage "Timor Mentum Occidit" 06:37, 11 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Comment: Suggest nom read WP:DICK and change the tone of his comments and nominations in the future. —Locke Cole 10:42, 11 December 2005 (UTC)
 * comment. having heard more of the story than you probably have i think it is karmafist who needs to read that. and delete btw. BL   kiss the lizard  04:35, 12 December 2005 (UTC)
 * And since the "WP:OWNers" of the stub system can't get consensus on a stub deletion(see below, they tried deleting this redirect yesterday and failed, they're trying again. I'm merging this attempt to the still open attempt, which they've failed at, as evidence of their hypocrisy. karmafist 17:39, 11 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Oh please, Karmafist, grow up. This redirect wasn't up for deletion yesterday. That one was New Hampshire-stub, this one is newhampshire-stub. See the difference? Secondly, that nomination hasn't failed yet, because (read this) a nomination for deletion requires a seven day waiting period. Aecis praatpaal 18:24, 11 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Oh wow, big difference there. One letter was capitalized. It's the exact same thing, and that's ultimately why I created it. I assume at this point I did create it since naming guidelines are obtuse to the frustrating several people i'm talking to on IRC have stopped bothering with anything other that stub at all. karmafist 18:59, 11 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Yes, it's quite a big difference. You said that we, and I quote, "tried deleting this redirect yesterday and failed", and that we are now "trying again." Which is bullshit. This redirect wasn't nominated for deletion. Make sure you know what you're saying, or keep your big mouth shut. You were proven wrong, and there's no way you can wiggle your way out of this. Aecis praatpaal 19:21, 11 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Could I possibly suggest that every in the NH and DC stubs votes take some time and cool down? Jokermage "Timor Mentum Occidit" 19:51, 11 December 2005 (UTC)
 * delete as per nom. DES (talk) 00:40, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
 * 'comment I've just re-edited the 30 or so non-stub geography articles that karmafist added this redirect to in the last few days - articles of the size of Barrington, New Hampshire. He seems to have done the same with New Hampshire-stub. More fun and games. Grutness...<small style="color:#008822;">wha?  10:28, 19 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep as a redirect. --SPUI (talk) 01:15, 23 December 2005 (UTC)

District of Columbia-stub
Not a redirect - a duplicate. Karmafist clearly decided we needed more work on this page, so there's this incorrectly named template to delete as well. If anyone wants to start an RFC against karmafist, let me know, because he's inching towards one... Grutness...<small style="color:#008822;">wha?  23:39, 10 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom. Caerwine <small style="font-family:sans-serif;color:darkred;">Caerwhine 00:46, 11 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Duplicate of what? Either way, it seems like we should keep this as a redirect to the template it duplicates; natural redirects are useful for editors. Christopher Parham (talk) 03:21, 11 December 2005 (UTC)
 * A stub template redirect that violates the naming guidelines does not strike me as a "natural" redirect. In any case, both it and the stub that it duplicates were created without being proposed. Caerwine <small style="font-family:sans-serif;color:darkred;">Caerwhine  03:37, 11 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Um, "name of thing"-"stub" seems pretty natural to me, in the same way that "name" would be a natural title for an article. And certainly proposing a page isn't a requirement for it to be created. Christopher Parham (talk) 03:55, 11 December 2005 (UTC)
 * The stub guidelines recommend proposing stubs on the proposals page first, not only so that the naming guidelines to be applied, but also to ensure that there are enough stubs that would use the proposed new stub. While the naming guidlines may need revising, they currently call for the stub to be named DistrictofColumbia-stub. Revision to the naming guidlines should be done by a proposal, not by creating stub templates that violate that policy. Caerwine <small style="font-family:sans-serif;color:darkred;">Caerwhine 04:19, 11 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Comment. I know you and Karmafist don't see eye to eye on these stub issues, but once again this is not a case of him creating new stubs just to annoy you. This stub was created on December 8, which was before the other DC stub was nominated. This is part of the original issue, not a new one. Jokermage "Timor Mentum Occidit" 06:48, 11 December 2005 (UTC)
 * comment so what was the real estate stub that he created on december 9 after he knew not to create new stubs without proposing them? grutness and caerwine are right hes being a pain. (delete) BL   kiss the lizard  04:52, 12 December 2005 (UTC)
 * I didn't see any reference to a real estate stub. Could you point it out to me? I still think that too many people are assuming bad faith on the part of others. Jokermage "Timor Mentum Occidit" 06:05, 12 December 2005 (UTC)
 * on WSS/D BL   kiss the lizard  07:12, 12 December 2005 (UTC)
 * I think you are reaching a bit with that argument. The same people in this discussion decided that it was a useful, but misnamed stub. They gave it the correct name and that was that. If he had created another misnamed redirect stub after the 9th, then I would agree with you. All of the MRS's had been created before the initial nomination, so accusations of deliberate sabotage are unfounded. All I am seeing is frustration on both sides which is why I suggested taking time to cool down. Accusations of POINTism and OWNerism will not help resolve this. Jokermage "Timor Mentum Occidit" 07:33, 12 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Before the nomination, yes, but after karmafist was informed on his user talk page that stub types had to be proposed first. Add to that karmafist's comment on my user talk page that he intends to continue creating redirects to stub templates (presumably irrespective of the naming guidelines or any decisions on these ones) and is it any wonder there's frustration? His message suggests that he will continue to do so "until stub naming becomes simple and intuitive" - presumably against the wishes of WP:WSS, whose naming guidelines are simple and intuitive. His redirects, by going against these naming guidelines, make the situation less simple and less intuitive. Grutness...<small style="color:#008822;">wha?  07:46, 12 December 2005 (UTC)
 * I didn't see that before. I've pretty much said all I wanted to anyway. Delete on the basis of Darkwikianism (as I understand it). Even if the stub process is not good, it is the best promoted by consensus to date and should be followed. I hope this dispute can be resolved without further escalation. Honestly, it's been like watching a train wreck in slow motion. Jokermage "Timor Mentum Occidit" 08:03, 12 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Tell me about it :/ Grutness...<small style="color:#008822;">wha?  08:42, 12 December 2005 (UTC)
 * and, a week later, Karmafist starts creating pointless redirects contravening the naming guidelines again (see "Canadian-bio-stub", "American Football-stub" and "Television-stub" at the top of the page). It's getting harder and harder to see this as anything other than malicious. Grutness...<small style="color:#008822;">wha?  06:36, 20 December 2005 (UTC)
 * delete as per nom. DES (talk) 00:44, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep as a redirect. --SPUI (talk) 01:14, 23 December 2005 (UTC)

Rename of three Buildings and structures stub categories
,, and should be renamed to follow the pattern of the other buildings and structures stub categories to be , , and. Not the most urgent of fixes, but as long as I noticed them while adding the new stub types for France, Italy, and Japan, I decided to bring them here. Caerwine <small style="font-family:sans-serif;color:darkred;">Caerwhine 04:12, 11 December 2005 (UTC)
 * rename. Sounds perfectly reasonable. While we're at it, should we drop the "s" from both "buildings" and "structures"? Grutness...<small style="color:#008822;">wha?  08:54, 12 December 2005 (UTC)
 * If we do, we'll need to bring the other eleven stubs to SfD as well. but other than that I would have no objection. Caerwine <small style="font-family:sans-serif;color:darkred;">Caerwhine 14:57, 12 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Leave that for now, maybe, and just go for the renames you originally proposed - there's enough of a backlog of changes as it is. It looks like Mairi's on a wikibreak, so we're botless again :( Grutness...<small style="color:#008822;">wha?  09:56, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
 * I'm back now, and have the bot working away again. I probably won't have time for much other than bot work for the next week or so. --Mairi 18:38, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

Rename of Law-related biographical stub categories
Both and the newly created   have a small problem of parentage which I noticed as I created the latter for the US-law-bio-stub. Namely what non-stub category should be its parent? The stub text suggests that would be approporiate (whihc includes lawyers, judges, and law professors, but instead the stub category had  (which is too broad) as its non-stub parent.  The parent was part of the the -related SFD of 24 November, but I've noted this nomination here.  As named, the stub category would also seem to encompass non-jurists who have some relation to the law, but there do not exist non-stub categories that would correspond to that broader scope, while,  and quite a number of cats in  already exist. Therefor I recommend that we:

Rename to and  and limit the scope to just jurists. This is not intended to affect the variety of redirects to law-bio-stub. Jurist is not a common enough term that I would be comfortable with ditching the redirects from alternate names in this case. If the explict scoping is not felt to be appropriate then the previously planned rename to and  should be carried out instead. Caerwine <small style="font-family:sans-serif;color:darkred;">Caerwhine 17:19, 11 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Seems reasonable to rename to something, but remember that "jurist" means something different in some countries (in commonwealth English it tends to mean someone who writes law books). Because of that, I'm not 100% convinced that that is the best name. Grutness...<small style="color:#008822;">wha?  08:52, 12 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Perhaps, but right now serves as the parent to , , , and , so the broader sense is what Wikipedia now uses in its categories, probably more for the lack of any better term as an alternative.  In any case, the confusion between American and British is one reason why I favor keeping law-bio-stub as the primary and advertised template. Caerwine <small style="font-family:sans-serif;color:darkred;">Caerwhine  14:58, 12 December 2005 (UTC)
 * In that case, I'll drop my objection. Grutness...<small style="color:#008822;">wha?  09:54, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

Custom Stub
someones made a fix-all and confuse-everyone stub again. no catagory and this could give us several tens of thousands oif different types of catagory if it did have. luckily it was only used once. delete. can it be speedied as a recreation of something very similar thats been made before? BL  kiss the lizard  05:09, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
 * hooboy yes, this one is a big mess of worms. delete thoroughly. Grutness...<small style="color:#008822;">wha?  09:51, 13 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Delete, I don't see how this could be used in any correct way. So people add at the end of an article, and then what? How is anyone going to find a list of veeblefetzer stubs? There's no category for them, and "what links here" from Custom Stub finds every other custom stub as well. This is useless. &mdash; <font color="#CC0000">J <font color="#00CC00">I <font color="#0000CC">P  | Talk 12:11, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Not the worst of ones, as it does file all its stubs into and only customizes the text. (It uses includeonly to keep the template itself out of the category.)  I've done the same thing on occassion, but by substing the stub template and commenting the change (see Peter of Spain). That said, non-standard template name, likely to confuse, blah, blah, delete. Caerwine <small style="font-family:sans-serif;color:darkred;">Caerwhine  12:20, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete and I am the one who created the ill advised stub, Mea Culpa, I have seen the error of my ways. I would favor it being speedily removed. &mdash; Falerin&lt;talk&gt;,&lt;contrib&gt; 14:03, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

New Mexico-politician-stub, South Carolina-politician-stub
These templates should lose the space in their names: Conscious 14:33, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
 * New Mexico-politician-stub -> NewMexico-politician-stub
 * South Carolina-politician-stub -> SouthCarolina-politician-stub
 * 'Rename per nom. Caerwine <small style="font-family:sans-serif;color:darkred;">Caerwhine 16:11, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
 * ditto. BL   kiss the lizard  09:59, 23 December 2005 (UTC)

Only real problem with this is that the hyphen meeds to go. Rename to. Caerwine <small style="font-family:sans-serif;color:darkred;">Caerwhine 04:31, 14 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Rename per nom. --Interiot 00:13, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Speedy rename. --Mairi 07:07, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
 * rename Grutness...<small style="color:#008822;">wha?  10:20, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

Search-engine-optimization-stub
No category, no indication it's ever been used either. Complex name, though not malnamed. But would we ever get anywhere near enough stubs to make this worthwhile? A search-engine-stub would probably struggle to reach threshold. But a search-engine-optimisation-stub? Delete. Grutness...<small style="color:#008822;">wha?  10:20, 15 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Delete as per nom. --Mairi 06:44, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

ethnic-stub (redirect) & ethno-stub
The first two need at the very least to have some cleanup done with them, even if kept. As can be seen here the trouble began back around June, but it never did get completely cleared up. There are 44 stubs in that with a null edit would be added to  instead and only three articles that use ethnic-stub. is the parent of in the non stub categories but the two stub categories have no linkage. With the proposed ethno-activist-stub ready to be created, I discovered this situation as I was looking around to make certain I gave it the appropriate non-stub parent. would seem to me to be a better parent for than  so I favor keeping the cat either with or wothout a stub template. However I see several alternatives here about what to do with ethno-stub none of which I have a preference for at this time, but with the first two being discussed, it seemed approporiate to discuss it now. I'm neutral about what to do with ethnic-stub but I figured this was an appropriate time to discuss whether to officially bring it in out of the cold and add it to the list of approved redirects or to extinguish it. Caerwine <small style="font-family:sans-serif;color:darkred;">Caerwhine 17:01, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
 * 1) Leave ethno-stub where it is and have  be a templateless stub category.
 * 2) Leave ethno-stub where it is and give  a template of its very own.
 * 3) Rescope ethno-stub to be the stub template of  and give  a new stub template such as ethno-group-stub
 * Hang on a minute... Ethno-stub used to link to . I thought it still did. Who changed it and why? Revert ethno-stub to its proper category and create a new ethno-group stub. Grutness...<small style="color:#008822;">wha?  23:30, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
 * It was changed by Stevertigo on June 9th this year. Aecis praatpaal 09:58, 17 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Agree, there should be an ethno-group stub. -- SwissCelt 06:27, 18 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Explanation from Ste|vertigo: Ethnicity cat should contain ethnic groups within it, but be reserved for concepts and topics in the science of "ethnicity." Having the groups list separate is vital, IMHO, and mixing them is bad organization. Sincerely -Ste|vertigo 19:06, 17 December 2005 (UTC)
 * In which case, Ethno-stub &rarr;, with subcat/template of ethno-group-stub and would probably be the way to go (i.e., option 3 from above). Sound reasonable? Grutness...<small style="color:#008822;">wha?  09:29, 18 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Option 3 as per above. --Mairi 00:55, 22 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Join 'em. Fewer is better in this case. Peter Isotalo 02:45, 26 December 2005 (UTC)

Comment It's clear that as far as ethno-stub is concerned, option 3 is the consensus, but no one else seems to have commented on the ethnic-stub redirect. Any opinions, cause without some, that part looks like it'll be closed with no consensus. Caerwine <small style="font-family:sans-serif;color:darkred;">Caerwhine 19:25, 27 December 2005 (UTC)
 * given that it's only been used three times, I don't think anyone would be too inconvenienced if it was deleted. We don't use adjectival stub names, anyway (not that "ethno" is exactly a noun form). Grutness...<small style="color:#008822;">wha?  06:04, 29 December 2005 (UTC)
 * I'd also go with delete (although it's now used more than 3 times), since we don't use adjectival forms, and it's not clear whether it ought to redirect to ethno-stub or ethno-group-stub. --Mairi 06:35, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

Comment: I've created ethno-group-stub, but splitting the existing articles between that and ethno-stub ought to be done by hand... Mairi 22:32, 10 January 2006 (UTC)
 * I've orphaned ethnic-stub and listed ethno-group-stub at WP:WSS/T for population. I think the redirect can now be deleted and this discussion logged. Conscious 14:21, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
 * It's not quite orphaned, thanks to the oddities of how links to redirects are handled. Special:Whatlinkshere/Template:Ethnic-stub now has a few more pages listed, then it'll be orphaned. --Mairi 00:44, 16 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Did you have to touch all articles with ethnic-stub, or does Whatlinkshere list change on its own? Anyway, I sorted what was in Special:Whatlinkshere/Template:Ethnic-stub Conscious 06:34, 16 January 2006 (UTC)
 * I touched all the articles with in both categories. Links-to-redirects show up on the Whatlinkshere of the page that's redirected-to (ethno-stub in this case), but since ethnic-stub isn't a redirect anymore, its Whatlinkshere gets updated when the relevant articles get touched or editted. I'll delete it now, since it's (in theory) orphanned... --Mairi 23:03, 16 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Logging note: ethno-stub now feeds into, ethno-group-stub was created to feed into , ethnic-stub was deleted. Conscious 12:04, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

Kosovo-geo-stub /
We've recently twice deleted variations on a Kosovo-stub, so I doubt we want this more specific one. Also unlikely to be of sufficient size. Delete --Mairi 08:49, 16 December 2005 (UTC)
 * delete for all the same reasons that we deleted Kosovo-stub. is woefully undersized - this one would be far worse. Grutness...<small style="color:#008822;">wha?  09:47, 16 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Delete for probably chronic undersizing. I don't know if I'd be opposed to this one if this were brought to the threshold level though (provided users stick by Kosovo and Metohija as it is). Aecis praatpaal 15:44, 16 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Comment At 202 stubs, Serbia-geo-stub is hardly oversized, but with only two autonomous provinces (Kosovo and Vojvodina) I wouldn't be surprised if either had the necessary 60 stubs. However, I would ask that the usual 60 stubs be shown if we're to keep it. Caerwine <small style="font-family:sans-serif;color:darkred;">Caerwhine  16:06, 16 December 2005 (UTC)
 * According to google, there are roughly 30 to 40 stubs in the category. There are probably quite a few red links relating to Kosovo out there, so this one might become viable. Aecis praatpaal 16:19, 16 December 2005 (UTC)
 * I only noticed about 15-20 while I was swapping over the SM-geo-stub to the two separate stubs a couple of weeks ago. That google count is probably high (several of the non-Kosovo locations mentioned the place in their articles). Grutness...<small style="color:#008822;">wha?  05:24, 17 December 2005 (UTC)
 * True. It could include Serbian towns that border Kosovo, for instance. Aecis praatpaal 09:54, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

Caucasus-geo-stub
A redirect now to georgia-geo-stub, this hasn't been used since Georgia, Azerbaijan and Armenia all got their own geo-stubs. delete. Grutness...<small style="color:#008822;">wha?  22:53, 17 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete Lectonar 12:53, 19 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete--Valentinian 15:27, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

US-Mil-hist-stub
From the discoveries page. A miscapitalized redirect of US-mil-hist-stub. Delete Caerwine <small style="font-family:sans-serif;color:darkred;">Caerwhine 22:24, 17 December 2005 (UTC)
 * one of the less useful miscapitalisations. delete. Grutness...<small style="color:#008822;">wha?  22:50, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

P2P-stub
No category, recently created, unused. For peer-to-peer file sharing, which doesn't even have a main category. Delete; perhaps rename to filesharing-stub (or such) if that'd be viable. --Mairi 05:38, 17 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete At 402 stubs compu-network-stub is not overful and it doesn't have many P2P stubs. Caerwine <small style="font-family:sans-serif;color:darkred;">Caerwhine 15:30, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

pro-life-stub / Category:Pro-life stubs
Newly created and added to 10 articles. Inherently POV and inappropriate for an encyclopedia. Delete —Slicing (talk) 05:16, 17 December 2005 (UTC)
 * an easy POV-target. I'd be inclined to delete them, too... but these are redlinks. What's the real names? Grutness...<small style="color:#008822;">wha?  05:19, 17 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Neutrality deleted them one minute after I posted the listing here. —Slicing (talk) 05:20, 17 December 2005 (UTC)
 * no problem, then :) Grutness...<small style="color:#008822;">wha?  05:21, 17 December 2005 (UTC)
 * I've undeleted them temporarily, because of an out of process deletion. That said, Delete.--Sean|Bla ck 05:24, 17 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Looks like Neutrality has deleted them again. Aecis praatpaal 17:25, 20 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete —M ESSED R OCKER (talk) 05:28, 17 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete with extreme prejudice. → <font face="arial, helvetica" color="#ff0000">Ξxtreme <font color="#006688" face="arial, helvetica">Unction {<font face="arial, helvetica" size="0">yak <font face="arial, helvetica">ł <font face="arial, helvetica" size="0">blah } 05:32, 17 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete with prejudice. (I wouldn't've minded seeing them stay deleted either, regardless of how out-of-process it was.) --Mairi 05:47, 17 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Oh, Delete, please, and stay deleted, IAR-time. Bishonen | talk 14:47, 17 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Delete: The contributor seems to be up to no good, and we are not in the business of inherently POV articles, stubby or long. Geogre 14:48, 17 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete At best this should be abortion-stub for articles relating to any of the sides in this contentious issue, but it really should be brought to the prooposals page considering the potential
 * Delete, delete, delete. Per all delete votes above. Encourages ignoring WP:NPOV. (Or move the category to be under Category:Pages to be deleted? No, don't.) FreplySpang (talk) 15:44, 17 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Abort. The term itself is POV as it's a propaganda term used instead of the slighty less POV "anti-abortion". --carlb 05:15, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

college-stub
college-stub redirects to university-stub but college can mean high school as well. its ambiguous and isnt being used (no articles have it) so should be deleted. BL  kiss the lizard  10:58, 17 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Neutral In modern American English it is unambiguously a school of tertiary education when used in the context of education, which is the main context the word is used. I won't vote to delete it, but I wouldn't fight to save it from those who consider it too ambiguous either. Caerwine <small style="font-family:sans-serif;color:darkred;">Caerwhine  15:30, 17 December 2005 (UTC)
 * here its just as likely to mean a high school. the nearest high schools to where i live are kavanagh college and kaikorai college. BL   kiss the lizard  18:36, 17 December 2005 (UTC)
 * I agree - In New Zealand "college" can simply mean a "more posh" high school (a collegiate school) - the same's true in Australia IIRC. It is a bit ambiguous. Grutness...<small style="color:#008822;">wha?  22:50, 17 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete: If 1) nothing uses it and 2) it redirects, then losing it hurts nothing, and the people making the redirect already realized the problem of ambiguity. In the US, it currently means post-secondary education, but it didn't used to (hence the 2nd oldest public high school in the US is Baltimore City College).  We gain nothing by the stub, and we contribute to confusion. Geogre 10:24, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

Was deleted. See Stub types for deletion/Log/Not deleted/December 2005. Conscious 14:23, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

VD and BE-geo-stubs / Category:Vaud and Berne geography stubs
For 2 geography stubs from two different Swiss cantons (Vaud and Bern). And while cantons are the logical way of splitting Switzerland-geo-stub, at < 600 articles it hardly needs splitting. And even so, I'm not sure why we'd want to combine these two, and we certainly wouldn't want that template name. Delete. --Mairi 04:42, 18 December 2005 (UTC)
 * totally unnecessary, and if we were going to split Switzerland we'd do it by individual cantons, not pairs of them. 'delete. This isn't the by the same editor who made that horrible grisons-stub a few months back is it? Grutness...<small style="color:#008822;">wha?  09:24, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

Canadian-bio-stub
Unnecessary and unused bio-stub redirect. Created two days ago. By karmafist. Sigh. Delete. Grutness...<small style="color:#008822;">wha?  06:30, 20 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Delete per Grutness. Aecis praatpaal 12:25, 20 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. Mindmatrix 18:15, 20 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom as contrary to the naming guidelines. Caerwine <small style="font-family:sans-serif;color:darkred;">Caerwhine 18:31, 20 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Canada-bio-stub already exists, so this is merely an unnecessary duplication. Delete. Bearcat 19:10, 20 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. Unnecessary duplication. --GrantNeufeld 19:35, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

hardware-cvg-stub &rarr; cvg-hardware-stub
While we do have stub templates of both the form *-cvg-stub and cvg-*-stub, the former are all used for genres and the pattern has been to place the cvg component where it would in ordinary language. Since this is for CVG hardware and not for "hardware computer and video games" I recommend we rename the template and delete the original. Caerwine <small style="font-family:sans-serif;color:darkred;">Caerwhine 18:31, 20 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Rename and delete. Thunderbrand 00:20, 23 December 2005 (UTC)

film-awards-stub / Category:Film awards stubs &rarr; film-award-stub / Category:Film award stubs
From plural to singular. Aecis praatpaal 14:08, 20 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Rename both template and category per Aecis. Caerwine <small style="font-family:sans-serif;color:darkred;">Caerwhine 18:31, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

Looney-tunes-stub &rarr; LooneyTunes-stub
No hyphen, capital T, per similar names. Aecis praatpaal 16:36, 21 December 2005 (UTC)
 * yup. But do it vewwy vewwy qwietly. Grutness...<small style="color:#008822;">wha?  06:45, 23 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Suffering succotash! Go ahead and rename that mouse stub. Caerwine <small style="font-family:sans-serif;color:darkred;">Caerwhine 06:12, 24 December 2005 (UTC)
 * rename'Circeus 02:05, 28 December 2005 (UTC)

&rarr;
From plural to singular. Aecis praatpaal 16:40, 21 December 2005 (UTC)
 * yup. Grutness...<small style="color:#008822;">wha?  06:45, 23 December 2005 (UTC)
 * rename Circeus 02:05, 28 December 2005 (UTC)

world-music-song-stub &rarr; worldmusic-song-stub
Rename misnamed template. --Bruce1ee 09:01, 22 December 2005 (UTC)
 * keep - naming fits due to existance of article at world music.Smmurphy(Talk) 02:37, 23 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep as redirect Circeus 02:02, 28 December 2005 (UTC)

Summary: Moved and redirect kept. --TheParanoidOne 22:55, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

American Football-stub
Karmafist strikes again. Delete this misnamed unused redirect. Grutness...<small style="color:#008822;">wha?  07:46, 22 December 2005 (UTC)
 * At least this time he picked a worthy target. Amfootball-stub doesn't follow the naming guidelines 100% because of the abreviated American and it gets worse when you consider that instead of Amfootballbio-stub the associated biography stub is Amfootbio-stub instead. That said having a template that doesn't follow the naming guidelines 100% doesn't call for adding a redirect that violates them worse.  Delete per nom. Caerwine <small style="font-family:sans-serif;color:darkred;">Caerwhine  13:57, 22 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete American Football-stub and Amfootball-stub, and replace them with AmericanFootball-stub. Aecis praatpaal 22:54, 22 December 2005 (UTC)
 * On second thoughts, that's a far better solution. Grutness...<small style="color:#008822;">wha?  01:11, 23 December 2005 (UTC)
 * You mean Americanfootball-stub don't you? The football here isn't a proper noun, which is as it should be, since the rest of the world keeps telling us that there is nothing proper about our football. [[Image:Smile.png|16px]] Caerwine <small style="font-family:sans-serif;color:darkred;">Caerwhine 02:23, 23 December 2005 (UTC)
 * oops - right you are gov. Yes, it was Americanfootball-stub that I meant. Grutness...<small style="color:#008822;">wha?  06:31, 23 December 2005 (UTC)
 * You're absolutely right, Caerwine: there's nothing proper about your football ;) I don't see why the template should be renamed to Americanfootball-stub though. Aecis praatpaal 00:24, 24 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Because the naming guidelines call for avoiding abbreviations, except those on out exceptions list. We don't use "Am" as a abbreviation for the United States, nor should we, It's an inobvious abbreviation that only a lover of jargon could love. At best I could see using an abbrevated version of "Americanfootball" to form combination stubs, but at the root level for the topic, the unabbreviated version should be available to those who don't memorize the stublist. Ideally, no one should be forced to consult the stub list to find a proper name for single hyphen stub that exists and follows the basic naming conventions. Caerwine <small style="font-family:sans-serif;color:darkred;">Caerwhine  05:55, 24 December 2005 (UTC)
 * I know, that's why I suggested unabbreviating it to AmericanFootball-stub. But I don't see why Grutness would want to rename it to Americanfootball-stub (with a minor f). Aecis Mr. Mojo risin' 14:06, 24 December 2005 (UTC)
 * This one might be a bit too non-intuitive, but in some countries (such as NZ & Australia) the sport is called gridiron. We have hoops-stub for basketball... how would gridiron-stub do? Yeah, okay, I know - bad idea. Grutness...<small style="color:#008822;">wha?  06:00, 24 December 2005 (UTC)
 * While I think that term is fairly well-known in the US, gridiron football indicates that it's used to also refer to Canadian football. So it might not be the best choice... --Mairi 06:54, 24 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Except for a few minor rule differences, the two games are essentially the same, much as rugby union and rugby league are essentially the same game. Having gridiron-stub as a redirect (or even the base stub) would be fine with me. Caerwine <small style="font-family:sans-serif;color:darkred;">Caerwhine  07:49, 24 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Delete If it's unused then why bother keeping it. --Thorri 12:47, 25 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete as per thorri Circeus 02:02, 28 December 2005 (UTC)

Tolkienstub to tolkien-stub
The stub template name needs a hyphen. This is a move that has already been requested at requested moves back in June, but nothing was done with that request. Another thing that might need fixing is the parent category,. It lists as a subcategory, which is simply a redirect to. I don't believe this circular categorization is what we need. Aecis praatpaal 00:14, 23 December 2005 (UTC)
 * sounds completely reasonable. support. And category redirects don't work anyway, so there's no real need to have the redirect at all. Grutness...<small style="color:#008822;">wha?  01:07, 23 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep the resulting template redirect. --SPUI (talk) 01:12, 23 December 2005 (UTC)
 * move and delete the incorrectly named tolkienstub. BL   kiss the lizard  06:18, 23 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Support as per BLCirceus 02:01, 28 December 2005 (UTC)

US-northeast-geo-stub and
every state in the US NE now has its own =geotemplat and no stubs use this template any more. so why do we need it? delete BL   kiss the lizard  07:47, 23 December 2005 (UTC)
 * An alternative would be to redefine the northeast for the purposes of stub sorting. While we have been using the Census Bureau's split, that was likely because map images showing the regions were already on the wiki.  There are other splits out there that would include Maryland, Delaware, and DC.  Delaware and DC don't yet have geo stubs of their own, so making the move would keep this stub as viable and bring the southern geo stubs down to a single page.  On the other hand, making this change would involve a good deal more work.  Either change scope or delete. Caerwine <small style="font-family:sans-serif;color:darkred;">Caerwhine  00:49, 24 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Lordy, it is empty! Yet another possibility might be to keep the category as a holding pen for those states, but delete the template. That would mean 1) no states in among the regions in the main US geo-stub category; 2) no constant emptying of US northeast into separate state categories.  That would be a reasonable temporary solution until such times as all US states have categories (but given that Delaware has five geo-stubs, that may still be a while away). Grutness...<small style="color:#008822;">wha?  01:01, 24 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Keep as holding pen regional stuff is likely to end up dumped there too. Circeus 01:53, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

Summary: Template deleted. Category kept as a container for the individual state categories. --TheParanoidOne 15:26, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

New Hampshire politician-stub
another karmafist special. unused. misnamed. unneccesary. delete. BL  kiss the lizard  06:29, 23 December 2005 (UTC)
 * (rolls eyes) delete. Grutness...<small style="color:#008822;">wha?  06:41, 23 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Keep, useful redirect. Christopher Parham (talk) 07:35, 23 December 2005 (UTC)
 * whats the point in having rules for naming things if we keep templates which dont follow those rules? BL   kiss the lizard  07:51, 23 December 2005 (UTC)
 * This doesn't violate any naming conventions; there are no naming conventions for redirects. Christopher Parham (talk) 07:55, 23 December 2005 (UTC)
 * It's a stub type. there are naming rules for stub types. BL   kiss the lizard  09:52, 23 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep a useful redirect. Please take redirects to WP:RFD, their proper place. --SPUI (talk | don't use sorted stub templates! ) 16:45, 23 December 2005 (UTC)
 * this is the proper place for stub redirects not rfd. BL   kiss the lizard  22:47, 23 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom. Caerwine <small style="font-family:sans-serif;color:darkred;">Caerwhine 00:34, 24 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete - created to prove a point. Aecis Mr. Mojo risin' 13:35, 25 December 2005 (UTC)
 * delete Circeus 02:00, 28 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete about the only case where I can see redirects-with-spaces being reasonably useful is spaces within proper nouns, or other such names (and I'm not even sure that's all that useful). But this isn't that case. --Mairi 07:01, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

Category:Television biographical stubs to Category:Television biography stubs
Proposed name follows the [noun]-stub model. Aecis praatpaal 00:21, 24 December 2005 (UTC)
 * support. makes sense to keep it consistent Grutness...<small style="color:#008822;">wha?  00:55, 24 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Rename per nom. Caerwine <small style="font-family:sans-serif;color:darkred;">Caerwhine 01:18, 24 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Support Je crois que c'est rationnel. --Thorri 12:44, 25 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Support I also agree that it makes sense. ( Davehard 12:35, 26 December 2005 (UTC) )
 * Support clearer name. Circeus 01:58, 28 December 2005 (UTC)

Four Ancient Egypt stub types
Proposed today and created today. Unfortunately, between the time of proposal and creation, debate was clearly heading towards three of these being unnecessary and the fourth being made with another name. What's more, none of these have dedicated categories. None of them have been used on any articles. Grutness...<small style="color:#008822;">wha?  11:23, 27 December 2005 (UTC)

Ancient-Egypt-military-stub
If needed, it should be Ancient-Egypt-mil-stub, but with only 350 Ancient Egypt stubs, it's unnecessary - it's unlikely to get anywhere near 60 stubs. At least rename it and give it a category, but preferably delete. Grutness...<small style="color:#008822;">wha?  11:13, 27 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom. Caerwine <small style="font-family:sans-serif;color:darkred;">Caerwhine
 * delete Circeus 01:57, 28 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete Valentinian 19:55, 28 December 2005 (UTC)
 * delete. BL   kiss the lizard  08:09, 29 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. Grutness is very wise: stubs are meant to help people find articles in need of work, not to categorize topics endlessly. And 350 is hardly an unwiedly size for a category. -- llywrch 22:16, 30 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the compliment, but it's standard stub-sorting practice, so it's not really "my" wisdom! :) Grutness...<small style="color:#008822;">wha?  22:31, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

Ancient-Egypt-building-stub
If needed, it should be Egypt-struct-stub, but at last count there were only 12 Egyptian structures, ancient or modern, with stubs, it's unnecessary. At least rename it and give it a category, but preferably delete. Grutness...<small style="color:#008822;">wha?  11:13, 27 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom. Caerwine <small style="font-family:sans-serif;color:darkred;">Caerwhine 19:17, 27 December 2005 (UTC)
 * delete Circeus 01:57, 28 December 2005 (UTC)
 * delete. BL   kiss the lizard  08:09, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

Ancient-Egypt-bio-stub
Greece-bio-stub covers both ancient and modern Greece adequately with no problems. Egypt-bio-stub - which already exists - covers both ancient and modern Egypt with no problems. Delete this one. Grutness...<small style="color:#008822;">wha?  11:13, 27 December 2005 (UTC)
 * PS - for the time being, I've made this a redirect to Egypt-bio-stub. Grutness...<small style="color:#008822;">wha?  11:19, 27 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Keep as a redirect from an alternate name per nom. Caerwine <small style="font-family:sans-serif;color:darkred;">Caerwhine 19:17, 27 December 2005 (UTC)
 * um... how can you say "keep as a redirect per nom", when the nominator said "delete"? My redirect was only a temporary one, rather than creating a category we might have to delete again. Grutness...<small style="color:#008822;">wha?  09:51, 29 December 2005 (UTC)
 * redirect Circeus 01:57, 28 December 2005 (UTC)
 * delete per nom BL   kiss the lizard  08:09, 29 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. I might have voted "keep" on this, but I doubt Egyptian bio-stubs from other historical periods will ever grow large enough to force us to split this category again. (And if that is the case, let's make the stubs into articles!) -- llywrch 22:16, 30 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep the redirect. --SPUI (talk - don't use sorted stub templates! ) 07:13, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

Ancient-Egypt-mythology-stub
The only one which I'd vote to keep, but since we have Greek-myth-stub, Norse-myth-stub etc, this should be Egyptian-myth-stub. Rename, and give it a dedicated category. Grutness...<small style="color:#008822;">wha?  11:13, 27 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Rename per nom to fit the naming convention for *-myth-stub, but also keep as a redirect from an alternate name. Caerwine <small style="font-family:sans-serif;color:darkred;">Caerwhine 19:17, 27 December 2005 (UTC)
 * rename no need to redirect. someoe tryingto categorize that wouldbe familiar enoughto get the right template.. Circeus 01:57, 28 December 2005 (UTC)
 * This is getting ridiculous. This has been re-created with the new proposed name in the middle of a vote - there is still no correct category link, and the new name has a sfd notice on it. What's more, it was recreated by copy and paste - the old template still exists. Yorktown, please stop messing around with the template in the middle of a vote! Since there is now a completely separate template with a more standard name, there's no need to keep this old one or redirect it - the situation has changed enough that we probably need to start this vote all over again... Grutness...<small style="color:#008822;">wha?  02:34, 28 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete Taking a closer look, I see I misread it. I could see keeping Ancient-Egypt-myth-stub as a redirect from an alternate name, but not the -mythology- form. After all, we have Ancient-Rome-myth-stub instead of Roman-myth-stub. Caerwine <small style="font-family:sans-serif;color:darkred;">Caerwhine  04:56, 28 December 2005 (UTC)
 * delete. BL   kiss the lizard  08:09, 29 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Rename. I created the original Ancient-Egypt-stub about a year or so ago, I was amazed at how many myth-related subs about ancient Egypt there were. I suspect this will always be a large category, no matter how many are turned into articles. (As an aside, one other category whose creation is defensible would be Ancient-Egypt-geo-stub for the ancient nomes & archeological sites -- or the appropriate version per the standards.) -- llywrch 22:16, 30 December 2005 (UTC)
 * yes and no - although I see your point, we only split geo-stubs by present county, otherwise things could get very messy (for instance,a place in Turkey, could get a Turkey-geo-stub, Ottoman-geo-stub, Arabia-geo-stub, Ancient-Rome-geo-stub and Ancient-Greece-geo-stub). Keeping geo-stubs to current political boundaries keeps stub-sporting simpler without disadvantagine editrs, since if a place has a very stong link to one historical period it could be double stubbed (Corinium, for instance, is marked with Ancient-Rome-stub and Gloucestershire-geo-stub). Grutness...<small style="color:#008822;">wha?  22:31, 31 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Rename to Egyptian-myth-stub. Ancient-Egypt-myth-stub would be fine as a redirect as per Caerwine. It also needs to have a category created. --Mairi 05:03, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

Author's Note:

After much consideration I have decided to delete Ancient-Egypt-military-stub. As for the other 3 stubs I am going to keep them. There are several dozen Ancient Egyptian pharaohs from this time period hence need for Ancient-Egypt-bio-stub. I am going to rename Ancient-Egypt-mythology-stub to Ancient-Egypt-myth-stub. In regards to Ancient-Egypt-building-stub there are over 60 unnamed pyramids in The Valley of The Kings that would fall under this category as well as several other Egyptian monuments. Though I will rename it Ancient-Egypt-struct-stub. Thank you for your time.

Yorktown1776 14:49, 27 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Those 60 unnamed pyramids are all located in Egypt and since Egypt-struct-stub is hardly full (it doesn't even exist yet) I fail to see the need to split off a separate stub for just Ancient Egypt at this time. Indeed, since they are unnamed, I find it highly unlikely that they are individually notable enough for each to have a separate article in a general purpose encylcopedia. Caerwine <small style="font-family:sans-serif;color:darkred;">Caerwhine  19:17, 27 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Please wait until the sfd process is done rather than making what look like fairly arbitrary renames and other changes. Ancient-Egypt-struct-stub and Ancient-Egypt-myth-stub are still unacceptable names, so if you make those changes, they'll simply come back here to sfd anyway - making more work for everyone in the process. As to the 60 unnamed pyramids, if they do not all articles, then there is no need for a stub category for them. Also I don't know what you mean by the military stub being "removed" - it still exists and will still need to be dealt with. Grutness...<small style="color:#008822;">wha?  23:17, 27 December 2005 (UTC)

Ancient-Egypt-struct-stub
Seeing that ancient-Egypt-building-stub was listed for deletion (see below), the creator of it re-created it at a new name (not a redirect, a new stub!). It's still the wrong name (it would be Egypt-struct-stub if needed), and it's still not needed. Delete. Grutness...<small style="color:#008822;">wha?  00:17, 28 December 2005 (UTC)
 * DeleteCirceus 01:54, 28 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete --Valentinian 19:54, 28 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete per Grutness. Aecis Mr. Mojo risin' 23:12, 28 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete as per above as well as the Ancient-Egypt-building-stub discussion earlier. --TheParanoidOne 22:44, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

Baseballbat-stub
BJAODN, anyone? Szyslak ( [ +t, +c, +m, +e  ] ) 12:17, 29 December 2005 (UTC)
 * BJAODN indeed. Speedily. --TheParanoidOne 22:42, 29 December 2005 (UTC)
 * BJAODN. Conscious 17:12, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

Mass-stub (redirect)
sadly this doesn't match the bat one for silliness. This is a redirect - ah, but to what? Massachusetts-stub, apparently (one which isn't listed as existing anywhere that I can see...). But it could just as easily refer to religious services, or to weights and measures, so it's really too ambiguous to be in any way useful. Oh, and it doesn't appear ever to have been used, either. Grutness...<small style="color:#008822;">wha?  06:32, 30 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Strong Keep (but see my change below) In Massachusetts, "Mass" is very often used as a substitute for "Massachusetts." "Massachusetts" is also a very long word that is often misspelled even by Massachusetts residents.  Thus, "Mass" is a useful abbreviation. -Mark Adler (Markles)  11:53, 30 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Delete per Grutness. Mass is indeed frequently used for Massachusetts, and would therefore have been very useful if it hadn't also had other meanings. I'm afraid this one is too ambiguous, which is sad, because Massachusetts is indeed probably the hardest state name in the US. Perhaps Massach-stub is an option? Aecis Mr. Mojo risin' 13:46, 30 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Delete per Grutness and Aecis. Mass is just too frequently used for things other than Massachusetts. Also, this redirect is used on 33 articles. I think Massach-stub is abit too innovative; maybe US-MA-stub (MA is the postal abbreviation, and US-MA is a redirect to Massachusetts) or US-Mass-stub? --Mairi 19:44, 30 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Delete is fine per Mairi. I'll concede defeat here.  Mairi's idea is a good enough compromise: US-MA-stub or US-Mass-stub.  -Mark Adler (Markles)  19:51, 30 December 2005 (UTC)
 * i dont like redirects, but i cant spell well either, so US-MA-stub sounds good :) BL   kiss the lizard  22:20, 30 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Keep; nothing wrong with the redirect. --SPUI (talk - don't use sorted stub templates! ) 07:13, 3 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Delete Everything is wrong with the redirect here as it is too ambiguous. Mass is not a redirect to Massachusetts and while the abbreviation is mentioned at Mass (disambiguation) for obvious reasons we don't have Mass (disambiguation)-stub. Caerwine <small style="font-family:sans-serif;color:darkred;">Caerwhine  01:39, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Keep This is a good redirect. Ashibaka tock 01:37, 6 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Can you explain what makes it "good", given the concerns raised in the discussion so far? --TheParanoidOne 06:13, 6 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Mass is a frequently used abbreviation. There won't be many stubs for Catholic Mass. Ashibaka tock 17:42, 6 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Delete. This redirect is confusing. My first thought was it's a subtype of physics-stub. Conscious 08:11, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

Notgaybaseballbat-stub
Delete Duplicate of Baseballbat-stub from the same creator, but this one was apparently designed to save time by preincluding the {sfd-t} notice. Caerwine <small style="font-family:sans-serif;color:darkred;">Caerwhine 18:57, 31 December 2005 (UTC)
 * sigh. get rid of it. Reasonable joke the first time, but - like all jokes - better not repeated too often. Grutness...<small style="color:#008822;">wha?  23:00, 31 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Speedy BJAODN Circeus 16:24, 1 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Speedy delete, BJAODN'ing might open a floodgate of attempts at being funny. Aecis Mr. Mojo risin' 19:34, 2 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Delete as per Grutness and Aecis. --TheParanoidOne 20:02, 2 January 2006 (UTC)
 * BJAODN. Replace with Baseballbat-stub. --HereToHelp (talk) 12:40, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

Gloucestershire-stub and
As noted by Circeus at the discoveries talk page, it's time the backlog was cleaned. This is one of the most obvious candidates. Created on September 23, used on 1 article since then. Delete. And have a happy New Year! Conscious 14:56, 31 December 2005 (UTC)
 * delete none of the other counties have one, and there's no real reason for any of them to have one. Grutness...<small style="color:#008822;">wha?  23:00, 31 December 2005 (UTC)
 * DeleteCirceus 16:23, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

Argentina-poli-stub and
Created on August 29, used on 8 articles since then. Delete. Conscious 16:17, 31 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. Upmerge if we've got a South American politics category. Grutness...<small style="color:#008822;">wha?  23:07, 31 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Upmerge to Circeus 16:22, 1 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Upmerge. Agree with Circeus.--HereToHelp (talk) 12:40, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

Iraq-war-stub
Created on June 17, not used at all. Delete. Conscious 18:18, 31 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete Circeus 16:21, 1 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Comment. I think it would be good to have unless it's redundant to second persian gulf war stub or something. Apparently, we have such good coverage of the war that nothing's a stub.--HereToHelp (talk) 12:40, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

Organometallic-compound-stub /, Organometallic-compound-start /
These are a bit trickier. Created on October 30, used on 1 and 3 articles respectively. I think that the second pair is still in the SFD scope, as the template wording suggests. The parent type organic-compound-stub is quite populated (<700). I say we delete all these and re-create when and if it is desirable in the process of splitting organic-compound-stub. Conscious 18:18, 31 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Probably need a word with the wikiproject that deals with this one, but start vs stub isn't really a useful differentiation - it reeks of stub vs substub. There may be some use of an organometallic-compound-stub sooner or later, so I'd be amenable to a merge of these two, but given how little used they are, deletion would also be a reasonable option. Grutness...<small style="color:#008822;">wha?  23:00, 31 December 2005 (UTC)