Wikipedia:Stub types for deletion/Log/Deleted/October 2005

Elec-stub (redirect)
An unused redirect of electro-stub (created from a page move in April). However, it could just as easily refer to elections, or undoubtedly other things. Delete. --Mairi 04:45, 1 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Sounds fair. Elec is ambiguous. Grutness...  wha?  04:57, 1 October 2005 (UTC)


 * delete BL Lacertae 00:13, 2 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete - is ambiguous. Lankiveil 07:41, 2 October 2005 (UTC).

Australian city stubs, part 1
As per discussion at WP:WSS/P, the various Australian city-specific stubs should be renamed for consistency.

Adelaide
In the case of Adelaide, this also means deleting the separate transport stub and merging it and adelstub into a new Adelaide-stub (each has only about 30 stubs). Grutness...  wha?  00:34, 2 October 2005 (UTC) Done - as to australia-struct-stub, I did propose it a couple of weeks back and it was rejected, but I suspect there are now more than enough stubs for it to pass. Grutness...  wha?  06:28, 11 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Adelaide transport stub and Adelstub &rarr; Adelaide-stub
 * &rarr;, deletion of
 * Adelaide suburb stub&rarr; Adelaide-geo-stub
 * &rarr;
 * Support. Do railway stations presently marked as Adelaide transport stub become Adelaide-stub or Adelaide-geo-stub? --Scott Davis Talk 10:41, 2 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Heh. It should be double stubbed as Adelaide-stub and Australia-rail-stub. Buildings and structures don't really count as geo-stubs, and there isn't yet a separate australia-struct-stub. Grutness...  wha?  00:59, 3 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Support, and gree with Grutness that a railway station isn't a geo-stub, but willing to revisit the issue in several million years. (SEWilco 02:45, 3 October 2005 (UTC))
 * Support. Maybe an would be a good idea too. Mindmatrix 01:00, 8 October 2005 (UTC)

Hobart
In the case of Hobart, this proposal supersedes the proposed deletion of this stub type further down the page. This one also needs a category. Grutness...  wha?  00:34, 2 October 2005 (UTC) Done. Grutness...  wha?  06:28, 11 October 2005 (UTC)
 * hobstub &rarr; Hobart-stub (no category)
 * Support --Scott Davis Talk 10:41, 2 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Support. Mindmatrix 01:00, 8 October 2005 (UTC)

Canberra
In this case, ACT-geo-stub would also be a viable option, since over 95% of the A.C.T.'s geo-stubs relate to Canberra. Either that or Canberra-geo-stub can be used for the name, with the template message making it clear that it can be used for the entire capital territory. (I'd favour the latter option). Grutness...  wha?  00:34, 2 October 2005 (UTC)
 * canberra suburb stub &rarr; Canberra-geo-stub (or ACT-geo-stub)
 * &rarr; (or )
 * &rarr;


 * Support all of the above. In the third case, I'd certainly prefer ACT scopes, and I think I'd somewhat prefer the ACT names, too.  Alai 02:53, 2 October 2005 (UTC)
 * but would that be with ACT-geo-stub or AustralianCapitalTerritory-geo-stub? Grutness...  wha?  07:16, 2 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Support as either Canberra-geo-stub or AustralianCapitalTerritory-geo-stub --Scott Davis Talk 10:41, 2 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Support I think we should probably go with Australian Capital Terrioty scope for all of them. Also ACT-geo-stub would be quicker and easier than AustralianCapitalTerritory-geo-stub. Martyman 03:31, 4 October 2005 (UTC)
 * The one problem with ACT-geo-stub is that we specifically try to avoid abbreviations since they may be ambiguous (hence WesternAustralia-geo-stub and Washington-geo-stub rather than WA-geo-stub, for instance) Grutness...  wha?  07:08, 4 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Well I guess it should be spelt out in full then. Linking to Canberra suburbs with for example Yarralumla, Australian Capital Territory|Yarralumla has just made me a bit fed up with how long it is recently. Martyman 01:13, 5 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Support use of, or optionally the rather lengthy  . I do not support the use of ambiguous acronyms or abbreviations, such as  . Mindmatrix 01:00, 8 October 2005 (UTC)
 * I favour using Canberra instead of Australian Capital Territory. Anybody who has had to type those three words over and over again while constructing suburb tables will agree with me. (although I usually do favour using Australian Capital Territory in favour of Canberra, in this case I think simplicity wins out!
 * That said, I oppose deleting cat:canberra_suburb_stubs. I think it should be kept as a subcategory of either cat:canberra_related_stubs or cat:canberra_geo_stubs (or both). There are a LOT of canberra suburb stubs, and I think a lot of other stubs will get lots in all the noise if they are all put into the same category (such as the lakes and ponds, mountains and hills and significant parks). Adz 12:55, 10 October 2005 (UTC)

Done, with very slight variation: Grutness...  wha?  06:28, 11 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Canberra-stub &rarr;
 * Canberra-geo-stub &rarr;

Rename Category:Historical Fiction book stubs -> Category:Historical fiction book stubs
More standard capitalization. And easier to do while it's still relatively new. --Mairi 21:19, 2 October 2005 (UTC)
 * CFD would regard this as a speedy rename. Though we don't have set rules for speedying here, I don't see any reason why this shouldn't be counted in the same way. Grutness...  wha?  00:20, 4 October 2005 (UTC)

HRF-bio-stub
Apparently for people who recieve the title Hero of the Russian Federation. Which cuts across standard categories, seems not particularly useful, and has very few suitable articles. Delete. --Mairi 04:52, 2 October 2005 (UTC)
 * How does it cut across standard categories? Zach (Sound Off) 04:57, 2 October 2005 (UTC) (creator of the stub template)
 * The standard is to divide by occupation (such as writier, politician and military being common) after dividing by country, and this isn't specific to any occupation. --Mairi 05:13, 2 October 2005 (UTC)
 * That I can agree on. While most of the awardings went to Chechnya veterans or cosmonauts, atheletes and some writters recieved the title. The main reason why I created the template is that not only this is only showing that it is not only a subject that relates to Russia, but it (mainly) establishes notability, which is very picky on here. If there was a central website, like with the Order of Canada, that lists everyone who got the hero title, I would have used that instead. Zach (Sound Off) 05:18, 2 October 2005 (UTC)
 * There is the woefully incomplete List of heroes of the Russian Federation. Establishing notability would also be accomplished by mentioning the title in the article. It's possible there'd be enough articles for a stub relating to Russian military, or the space program (I don't follow bio stubs closely enough to know). --Mairi 05:28, 2 October 2005 (UTC)
 * I am checking that now, and I also happened to create that list. Once it gets to a good size, it will be transwikied (hopefully). Zach (Sound Off) 05:35, 2 October 2005 (UTC)
 * But since this is a keep/delete situation, I personally will side (and this should not be a big shock), but keep. I will happy to see this go after a while, but I am going to create these type stubs in the next few years, so they should meet Grutness's 50 article rule. Zach (Sound Off) 06:46, 2 October 2005 (UTC)

Delete It only has 10 stubs now and it doesn't fit into our existing schemes. However, if there were a WikiProject associated with the Heroes of the Russian Federation, I could see keeping it. There are other ways of keeping track of articles about the Heroes of the Russian Federation that need work, such as Category:Hero of the Russian Federation or List of heroes of the Russian Federation if it is a purely personal endeavour. Caerwine 01:20, 3 October 2005 (UTC)
 * I am meerly just getting them up to stub status, then could work on them in the future, but I do not see how this does not work out to a "current scheme." But, I have let the folks know at the Portal:Russia about the creation of this template and that I am using it now. Zach (Sound Off) 01:29, 3 October 2005 (UTC)
 * I still don't see any reason to not use Russia-bio-stub in combination with until there actually are 60 stubs. Caerwine 19:50, 3 October 2005 (UTC)
 * So, until that time comes, can I merge the template into the bio-stub template? Zach (Sound Off) 19:52, 3 October 2005 (UTC)

Dynamic
A "dynamic" stub template. Which'd cause so many problems if it were used (fortunately it isn't). Strong delete. --Mairi 02:18, 3 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete post-haste. Agreed - this is far more likely to do harm than good. Grutness...  wha?  04:59, 3 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Comment: How is this different from metastub which is mentioned on WP:STUB? Should that be deleted as well? I actually prefer the wording in this template than the metastub one. --TheParanoidOne 09:35, 3 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Based on the name and the initial edit summary ("Dynamic stub. I am not searching for existing ones."), I interpreted it as for being used on articles, in place of a specific stub. This edit shows it being used as such (altho that's as much a problem with the individual user). I agree that the metastub wording could be better, tho. --Mairi 20:12, 3 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete!!! Blank Verse  &empty;  11:15, 8 October 2005 (UTC)

and
In both cases, these have largely been emptied into subcategories, so it's a good time to rename both to wiki-standard, i.e., as and. Grutness...  wha?  10:01, 4 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Support. &mdash; Fingers-of-Pyrex 11:31, 4 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Support. Mindmatrix 00:48, 8 October 2005 (UTC)

European Union stubs and European Union-related stubs
One of these needs to go. Both of them make reference tu EU-stub but the template feeds into the second. The first is empty but it is my understanding that the outcome of the "x-related" debates was that the "x-related" categories were to be scrapped. --TheParanoidOne 15:42, 4 October 2005 (UTC)
 * It is, although that decision was primarily for specific countries. I'd definitely be in favour of removing it from all stub categories, though, to bring the stub cat names more in line with the general cat names - so I'd favour the former name listed above. Grutness...  wha?  00:16, 5 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Well since I created the EU-stub so I may as well weigh in. It was initially created as European Union stubs however I hadn't been around long at the time I didn't follow proper procedures, like proposing it first &c. Now I wonder if it would not be better named Category:European Union operations stubs as it was created to be for articles relating specifically to operations of the European Union as a political entity as opposed just anything relating to the countries of the EU. I've tried to explain it at the top of the cat and in the template, I keep an eye on it and to be fair it's not that often that other articles end up in it but this might be an opportunity to change it if anyone thinks it appropriate? If not than I go for the former as -related makes it even less clear what it's specifically for. -- Lochaber 15:40, 5 October 2005 (UTC)

Category:Liberal related stubs to Category:Liberalism stubs
I think the proposed name meets the naming guidelines better. Aecis 22:39, 5 October 2005 (UTC)
 * This is handled on WP:SFD, has it been proposed there? &infin; Who ? &iquest; ?  22:44, 5 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Moved from WP:CFD. &infin; Who ? &iquest; ?  22:51, 5 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Aecis is right - the general format for naming is . Rename. Grutness...  wha?  23:22, 6 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Might as well Rename for consistency. The Land 16:27, 7 October 2005 (UTC)

Category:Phillipine literature stubs
I have corrected the typo in that led to the creation of this category and created the proper category at Category:Philippine literature stubs, but three articles continue to show up in this category. Why? NatusRoma 07:41, 5 October 2005 (UTC)
 * They showed up because of a caching problem regarding categories on templates. Any edits (including null edits) on the affected articles fix the problem. It's now empty, so speedy delete once it's been empty for 24 hours. --Mairi 03:37, 6 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Because of the same problem none of the articles with the template currently feed into the correct category and will need null edits. However, none of them qualify as Philippines literature stubs (they're all Philippines writer stubs), so it should not be on any of them anyway. Also the name of the template is completely wrong (as - by WSS naming - it would refer to literature about philosophy). The stub type is currently under discussion at WP:WSS/D, and it is likely that it will be proposed for deletion soon. Grutness...  wha?  06:33, 6 October 2005 (UTC)

Pentalog-stub / Category:Pentalog-related stubs
Pentalog is apparently a French IT company. With no signs of having more than 2 related articles on Wikipedia (the template is on both). Delete. --Mairi 01:50, 5 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete superfluous in the extreme. Grutness...  wha?  06:01, 5 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete, I just ran across this while checking for new pages.  RasputinAXP  talk  *  contribs  13:54, 12 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete, only one article left since the other just got speedied as a nn-bio. --Angr/undefined 21:34, 12 October 2005 (UTC)

Pt-footyclub-stub
For Portuguese football clubs. This wasn't one of the ones mentioned in the recent footyclub split; and for good reason: Category:Portuguese football clubs includes 29 articles, and List of football clubs in Portugal has a handful of additional relevant articles. Currently feeds into, and used on 6 articles. Delete. --Mairi 01:58, 5 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete, since what was needed here was debated and this was definitely not considered worthwhile. In any case the name is bad. Grutness...  wha?  06:01, 5 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. I'm busy counting the European football club stubs per country, and Portugal is not high on that list. Sweden and Scotland top the list. The others are nowhere near the threshold yet (from what I can tell now). Aecis 07:54, 6 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Done. There are 19 Portuguese football club stubs in . Aecis 14:57, 9 October 2005 (UTC)

Rename TN-geo-stub
Newly created, refers to Tamil Nadu, India. Probably much needed, but also definitely needs a new name, as TN is also the postal abbreviation for Tennessee, and an ISO code for Tunisia. Rename to TamilNadu-geo-stub. --Mairi 02:10, 6 October 2005 (UTC)
 * O.K.--SivaKumar 04:51, 6 October 2005 (UTC)

''SivaKumar went ahead and created TamilNadu-geo-stub; I redirected TN-geo-stub to there. The redirect should be still deleted. Mairi 00:38, 7 October 2005 (UTC)''
 * Rename - India-geo does need splitting, but TN is not the way to name the new template. Grutness...  wha?  06:21, 6 October 2005 (UTC)

Shan-stub
Created 2 days ago, unused. There is a new wikiproject, but it has one contributor. Furthermore, there's most likely less than 10 articles related to the author, not all of which are stubs. Delete. --Mairi 02:38, 6 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. Grutness...  wha?  06:21, 6 October 2005 (UTC)

Palau-stub / Palau-related stubs
Time to prune the stub list a bit, methinks. This category has had less than 10 entries for several months now, as per this diff. I propose this be deleted, and the stubs merged into its parent, oceania-stub. --TheParanoidOne 21:37, 6 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Although I can see the worth of having individual stubs for every county, some of them - like these - will never get close to a viable population of stubs. And since Oceania-stub is hardly overburdened, I agree with delete. These can always be revived later if the need ever arises, anyway. Grutness...  wha?  23:16, 6 October 2005 (UTC)

Tuvalu-stub / Tuvalu-related stubs
Another one for pruning. This category has also had less than 10 entries for several months now, as per this diff. I propose this be deleted, and the stubs merged into its parent, oceania-stub. --TheParanoidOne 21:37, 6 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete, for the same reasons as I gave on palau-stub, above. Grutness...  wha?  23:16, 6 October 2005 (UTC)

Category:Football (soccer) player stubs to Category:Football (soccer) biography stubs
This category contains more biographies than just player biographies. As the category itself says, "while the category was originally envisioned only for players, non-playing personnel (managers, coaches, chairmen, executives) can also be included in this category, as long as they are directly connected to the sport." I think a rename is needed to better fit the articles in this category.. Aecis 11:48, 5 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Renaming for stub categories must be directed to Stub types for deletion. -- Rick Block (talk) 04:05, 6 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Moved from WP:CFD missed it earlier. &infin; Who ? &iquest; ?  04:40, 6 October 2005 (UTC)


 * Rename - good point. There will be managers, coaches, etc in here too. Grutness...  wha?  06:21, 6 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Comment: Perhaps it would be better to keep this category, plus create additional related and daughter stubs+categories. If you look at the category, the first page doesn't even get all the way through the letter A. Someone more familiar with fútbol will have to suggest the best way to divide up the articles. Blank Verse  &empty;  11:36, 8 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Well, that would be an obvious one, I'd say - by nationality, in much the same way as the clubs are in the process of being divided. A large proportion of the managers and coaches are former players, but there are still some that aren't, and I'd be happier if they were kept in with the main category since the same editors are likely to know about them. I'd go ahead with the proposed move, but consider tallying up what nationalities can be split off. There are some that would just about be guaranteed (England, Italy, France, Germany, Brazil, and Argentina, to name just six). Grutness...  wha?  11:51, 8 October 2005 (UTC)
 * I've gone through about 15% of the stubs (not particularly randomly), and found: English 59; Scottish 21; Norwegian, Australian 12; Northern Irish 10; Belgian, German, Turkish, Guinean, Brazilian 9; Argentinian 8 (out of 333 checked, of 2206 total). I'd say English and Scottish are fair enough, but the rest are only just big enough to warrant their own stub types. It might be best to split most by continent instead of country: I counted Europe 214 (including Eng/Scot), Africa 54, South America 24, and about 15 for each of the others. This way, the estimated totals for each category would be about: England 400, Scotland 140, Rest of Europe 900 (with possible further splits once we see exactly how many there are of each), Africa 350, South America 170, North America/Asia/Oceania 100 each. (Phew!) sjorford #£@%&$?!  13:58, 8 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Okay, those sound fair splits to me (by continent, plus the England and Scotland ones) - take this over to WP:WSS/P and run it past everyone there! Grutness...&lt;font color=green> wha? 22:35, 8 October 2005 (UTC)
 * On its way... BTW, I agree with the renaming as well, just to be clear. sjorford #£@%&$?!  09:27, 9 October 2005 (UTC)

Eng-club-stub to England-footyclub-stub
This category should be renamed, according to the guidelines set by WP:WSS/P. Aecis 18:37, 6 October 2005 (UTC)
 * definite rename. Grutness...  wha?  23:16, 6 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Indeed it should :) --Joy &#91;shallot&#93;   11:25, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Support rename. --Monkbel 06:05, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

Canada-place-stub
A long-deprecated redirect to Canada-geo-stub. Only two redirects use the "place" coding - this and Ireland-place-stub, which should also be deleted but is still fairly heavily populated. This one was taken to WP:TFD way back in January 2005 and moved to canada-geo-stub - back then it was in use, but it hasn't been since at least June, so has the time now come for its deletion? Grutness...  wha?  11:11, 7 October 2005 (UTC)


 * Keep --[[Image:Ottawa flag.png|20px]] Spinboy 15:49, 7 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete for the sake of consistency. No one should use the template going forward; get rid of it before somebody does. &mdash; Fingers-of-Pyrex 16:00, 7 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. Its not used and why should Canada have differant stub names to everywhere else? BL Lacertae 00:38, 8 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. This has been superceded by and its descendants, and should not be used. Mindmatrix 00:45, 8 October 2005 (UTC)

Fo-stub
Unused redirect to Faroe-stub (for the Faroe Islands). The category has only a couple of dozen stubs, and it definitely doesn't need an ambiguous template redirect. Grutness...  wha?  10:51, 7 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete as per nom. --Mairi 19:40, 10 October 2005 (UTC)

Planet-stub / Category:Planet stubs
Only for extra-solar planets, according to the template text. However, Category:Extrasolar planets has 79 articles, and by far most of those are about stars, which then either have a section or mention of an extrasolar planet. Not likely to have sufficient use. Delete. --Mairi 04:33, 7 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete, not enough use to warrant a stub template. --Angr/undefined 07:13, 7 October 2005 (UTC)
 * ISTR standard procedure at the astronomical objects wikiproject is to list extrasolar panets as sections on the articles about the stars they circle, since very little is known about any of them yet. No doubt in time astronomers will find out more and separate articles will be made, but at the moment this stub type isn't needed. Grutness...  wha?  07:20, 7 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Agree with Grutness. DeleteA2Kafir 22:12, 7 October 2005 (UTC)

Boom-stub
For "exploding animal-related articles". Delete. --Mairi 02:53, 7 October 2005 (UTC)


 * Keep. Why, exactly, should it be deleted? Matt Yeager 04:10, 7 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Very limited scope; doesn't have near 50 existing appropriate articles. Mairi 04:20, 7 October 2005 (UTC)


 * Wow, an actual answer. Thank you. But if you don't mind my asking, why is that a problem anyways? Wikipedia is not paper, after all. Plus, there really isn't a good category to put the articles in--they were previously placed in Template:Biology-stub or Template:Weapon-stub, neither of which is anywhere near as accurate a moniker as the exploding animals one. Matt Yeager 05:10, 7 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Stub categories are not like ordinary categories - they have a completely different purpose. Whereas ordinary categories are for readers looking for other articles on the same subject, stub categories are specifically for editors who know about a particular subjects and can expand articles. For editors, having to sort through a stub category with thousands of articles is a hassle, since they may well overlook some they can actually deal with. Similarly, there's no point in having a stub category with only one or two articles, since it would soon be emptied by diligent editors. For that reason - ideally - a stub category should have between abouit 60 and 600 articles: enough for editors to really get their teeth into, but no so many as to be daunting or a hassle. Any stub types that are too general (and therefore have lots of articles) get split into more specific topics that will have fewer stubs. Any which are too specific, though, are likely to be deleted. It's all a balancing act, and - along with physically changing stub templates on articles - is the main job of the stub sorting WikiProject. (Oh, and that's a delete by the way). Grutness...  wha?  07:20, 7 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Alright, conceded. (I still think it was hilarious.) Matt Yeager 23:06, 7 October 2005 (UTC)


 * Delete. A2Kafir 22:10, 7 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Explode! ... and then delete. --TheParanoidOne 22:20, 7 October 2005 (UTC)
 * BJAODN the vandalized version. Aecis 10:19, 8 October 2005 (UTC)
 * BJAODN Delete. BlankVerse 11:27, 8 October 2005 (UTC)
 * BJAODN the vandalized version that I saw, and that Matt Yeager notes below: . Personally, I don't think the unvandalized version is BJAODN material. BlankVerse
 * BJAODN. Matt Yeager 06:51, 9 October 2005 (UTC) (yeah, I guess it was a bad joke)
 * Yeah, fair enough - BJAODN - Grutness...  wha?  11:36, 10 October 2005 (UTC)

'(NOTE: this stub has actually been vandalized. Take a look if you don't believe it!) Matt Yeager 06:56, 9 October 2005 (UTC)

to
New guideline for country-related stub categories does away with *-related. Aecis 10:18, 8 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Support this and all similar -related removals. Grutness...  wha?  22:31, 8 October 2005 (UTC)
 * I concur. --Alynna 00:36, 15 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Support the above rename. --TheParanoidOne 21:52, 15 October 2005 (UTC)

WV-road-stub
Pretty sure this one wasn't debated - if it had been, it would have been at WestVirginia-road-stub, the name to which I've redirected it. Since it's now at the new name, this incorrectly named one can be deleted. Grutness...  wha?  07:08, 10 October 2005 (UTC)
 * It actually was proposed, with some debate too, including mention that 2-letter postal abbrevations are undesirable. Delete. --Mairi 21:05, 10 October 2005 (UTC)
 * I agree... I'd prefer that it was at West-Virginia-State-Highway-Stub, but to prevent further strife I accepted the old name. But it was proposed... I don't always create the road stubs immediately after they are approved (I like to do them in batches), and I didn't create this one. --Rschen7754 (talk - contribs) 01:14, 11 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Sorry - I hadn't noticed the original proposal (that page is just so damn big I'm bound to miss a few) - but the name's not a good one anyway, so... XX-State-Highway-Stub would limit it to state highways, whereas XX-road-stub allows for urban raods and streets as well, so it's a bit more all inclusive. In any case, I still think that all the XX-State-Highway-Stub names need renaming (that would be such a long job, though, that I'm not ready to propose it any time soon). Grutness...  wha?  03:59, 11 October 2005 (UTC)


 * Delete per above --Alynna 00:36, 15 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete, as per the discussion in that self-same moving-target proposal. Alai 05:54, 15 October 2005 (UTC)

&rarr;
This move would do three things: 1) Bring it in line with its non-stub parent ; 2) remove that word "related"; 3) stop people potentially adding stubs about social get-togethers. Rename? Grutness...  wha?  07:34, 10 October 2005 (UTC)
 * I could agree, but it will take a lot of work to do, since one has to visit all these stubs to rename the stub-category. Is there another solution. - Electionworld 08:38, 10 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Well, there are two solutions - firstly a bot, since it's obvious which stubs need to be changed, and they would all simply need a null edit (in which case there would be virtually no work); secondly, I've put in a proposal at WP:WSS/P to split some subcategories off this, which would reduce the number of stubs in the category (in which case the articles would need re-stubbing anyway). Grutness...  wha?  09:30, 10 October 2005 (UTC)


 * Rename for clarity and consistency --Alynna 00:36, 15 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Rename. --Joy &#91;shallot&#93;   11:33, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Rename. The new suggestion is much better. --Valentinian 01:25, 24 October 2005 (UTC)

&rarr;
The parentage and text of the category indicates that it's for feminism, while the template text, since June, says "female-related" (the template as had both wordings in the past). Almost all the marked articles are about feminism. Female-related poses several problems, including cutting across multiple existing categories (medicine, psychology, politics, etc). Rename (either way, the template/category need to be clarified). --Mairi 23:32, 10 October 2005 (UTC)
 * rename - yes, the name is misleading and possibly more than a little demeaning as well. Grutness...  wha?  00:23, 11 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Definitely rename. --Alynna 00:36, 15 October 2005 (UTC)
 * rename to rename  BL   kiss the lizard  08:16, 16 October 2005 (UTC)

Pennsylvania-stub
Pennsylvania-stub was discovered on 1 October 2005. It's unused, and it has no category. No wikiproject exists for Pennsylvania. Delete. &mdash; Fingers-of-Pyrex 15:51, 11 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete --Alynna 00:36, 15 October 2005 (UTC)

Australian city stubs, part 2
I left the two big cities until after the others were done, because they probably need a bot (I did the changeover of the others manually). These changes are as per recent discussions at WP:WSS/P

Melbourne
This has over 500 articles, so it will need a bot. Mind you, many of them should bein this second category, which currently has only 11 articles: This would bring Melbourne into line with everywhere else on the planet as far as stub naming is concerned, and would be in line with recent changes to the Adelaide, Canberra, and Hobart stubs. Grutness...  wha?  07:42, 11 October 2005 (UTC)
 * melstub &rarr; Melbourne-stub
 * &rarr;
 * mel-suburb-stub&rarr; Melbourne-geo-stub
 * &rarr;

rename as suggested. Consistency is good. Agnte 16:40, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

Rename. Keeps most of Wiki's presentation up to scratch. --Tetsuya-san 00:17, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

Sydney
As above, this would bring Sydney into line with everywhere else on the planet as far as stub naming is concerned, and would be in line with recent changes to the Adelaide, Canberra, and Hobart stubs. This would also probably need a bot, since there are about 350 stubs. Grutness...  wha?  07:42, 11 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Sydney suburb stub&rarr; Sydney-geo-stub
 * &rarr;
 * If my maths is correct then it will be in the region of 680 "Sydney suburb stub" articles now, since there was a push by myself and others to flesh out the missing suburbs. If a bot can do the changeover then I think it's a good idea, but if they have to be done by hand then I think it's a bad idea that's not worth it. -- All the best, Nickj (t) 07:47, 12 October 2005 (UTC)
 * A shame that push wasn't left until after the changeover, but still (it was announced at the Sydney WikiProject that a change was likely very soon) - currently about 2000 japan-geo-stubs are being changed over by hand, so it would just be a bigger job without a bot, not impossible. Grutness...  wha?  00:25, 13 October 2005 (UTC)

rename for both Melbourne and Sydney for consistency with the other Australian cities. If there are too many Sydney suburb stubs (now a complete set thanks to Nick and others) to rename, I suppose that could be kept as a subcat of the new Sydney-geo-stub, and dissolved once most suburb articles have grown beyond stub status. No Sydney-stub/? --Scott Davis Talk 11:54, 14 October 2005 (UTC) rename both as suggested for consistency. --Alynna 00:36, 15 October 2005 (UTC)
 * None currently exists - and there aren't currently any separate stubs for Perth o Brisbane, which is a bit of a surprise. Hopefully if they're needed the WikiProjects will contact us first, now that they know we exist :) Grutness...  wha?  01:30, 15 October 2005 (UTC)
 * There actually is a (rather-unused) Perth-stub that's been sitting around on WP:WSS/D for a month and a half... --Mairi 01:41, 15 October 2005 (UTC)
 * rename (redirect or use a bot). - Ta bu shi da yu 23:31, 21 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Rename, as all said above, for consistency. --Neigel von Teighen 22:33, 26 October 2005 (UTC)

Update
Melbourne is done - hopefully someone with access to a bot will be able to change the Sydney ones over. Grutness...  wha?  11:25, 20 October 2005 (UTC)

&rarr;
(Was tagged with cfr by User:Jayc, but not listed on WP:CFD) There's been some discussion on the talk page. "Program" is the common spelling in the US, and Manual of Style recommends using the relevant national variety of English for country-specific pages. And I can't think of any strong need for consistency in stub category names, unlike templates (although if there is, they could all be renamed to 'television series', which is used by most the main categories). Rename. -Mairi 05:02, 11 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Rename' render unto the US etc etc etc. Grutness...  wha?  07:42, 11 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Rename to Category:United States television series stubs - SoM 21:06, 12 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Mmm... what about stubs for one-off specials? I think "...programs" is the better name to cover all bases. Grutness...  wha?  00:22, 13 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Definitely rename to program. As for series v. programs why not just United States television stubs without narrowing it any moe than that. jengod 20:48, 13 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Because then you'll get personalities, stations, etc etc etc. Grutness...  wha?  22:49, 13 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Rename "program" -Eisnel 17:19, 24 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Rename from "programme" to "program". Telestylo 20:30, 1 November 2005 (UTC)

New Hampshire-stub (redirect)
Created as a new stub type by a new WikiProject, who didn't realise there were naming guidelines for stubs. It's now been moved to NewHampshire-stub, leaving this incorrectly named redirect which should be deleted. Grutness...  wha?  06:22, 12 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Speedy delete. &mdash; Fingers-of-Pyrex 12:22, 13 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete --Alynna 00:36, 15 October 2005 (UTC)

State forest-stub /
Delete. This was discussed jointly with the state park stub last month; let's discuss them one at a time. The category is empty; in my opinion it should not exist because any state forest article stub in the future should go into the appropriate stub category for the geographic region. &mdash; Fingers-of-Pyrex 12:29, 13 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. The reason this is empty is that all that was in there were a handful of lists and - as has been discussed elsewhere, lists (by definition) are not stubs. They were better served by the new, where they 9and all the other similar lists I could find) now reside. It's far more likely that editors will know stubs about specific states than about forests nationwide, anyway. Grutness...  wha?  12:50, 13 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete; this is unnecessary. --Alynna 00:36, 15 October 2005 (UTC)
 * delete why keep it if noones using it. BL   kiss the lizard  08:16, 16 October 2005 (UTC)

Swedish-politician-stub &rarr; Sweden-politician-stub &rarr;
We definitely follow a standard of always using a national noun rather than a national adjective in the stub template. The consensus seems that it would be a good idea to do the same with the categories, and since changing the stub will require restubbing anyway, it would be best to change the category at the same time if it is to be done. Caerwine 16:00, 13 October 2005 (UTC)
 * A definite rename for the template. A weaker one for the category - we've got an awful lot of categories named like this, and "Sweden politician stubs" does sound a little stilted. Nouns seems a good way to go, though - although we also need to keep in mind the names of the main categories they're based on. I'm...just unsure. Grutness...  wha?  23:03, 13 October 2005 (UTC)
 * I suppose we could always follow the single example of and go for something like  if we value euphony over brevity. Caerwine 20:13, 14 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Definitely rename the template, but the category doesn't seem to do much harm as it is, and personally, I'd try to stay consistent with Category:Swedish politicians.  Rob e  rt  00:22, 15 October 2005 (UTC)

Swedish-politician-stub has been orphaned. Consensu semmed to be to keep so I left it alone. Caerwine 03:31, 21 October 2005 (UTC)

''Only the template was renamed; the category was kept as it was. Mairi 18:00, 23 October 2005 (UTC)''

to or
I created this category in order to reduce the load of footy-stub. However, I forgot to take into consideration the problems with the term "football" in the American context. The current category name does not make it clear enough that the articles are about what in the US would be called soccer clubs, so I request a rename for this category. Aecis 23:04, 13 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Sounds fair... the non-stub category this relates to is "United States soccer clubs", so I'd probably go for that one. Then again... the original proposal had the parentheses... sigh. A rename is definite, but... which to? Grutness...  wha?  10:46, 14 October 2005 (UTC)
 * I'd say - "football (soccer)" is only really necessary if the category covers an area where both terms are used. sjorford  #£@%&$?!  15:37, 14 October 2005 (UTC)
 * I would say, for two reasons. Firstly because the article about the sport is called "football (soccer)", and not for instance Association Football (the official name of the sport), and secondly, because the category is a daughter of . Aecis 20:07, 14 October 2005 (UTC)
 * That's not necessary - there are plenty of articles that say just "football" or "soccer" in the right context. The only ones that don't are those that cover football throughout the world, where either name might be used. See for example, Category:Football (soccer) by country - all use one term or the other (apart from Category:Canadian football (soccer), which probably ought to be changed). sjorford #£@%&$?!  19:36, 16 October 2005 (UTC)
 * You're absolutely right about the use of football and/or soccer. And you're also right when you say that it's not really necessary to use the word football. Soccer in itself is clear and unambiguous enough. The category itself imo definitely needs soccer in the name, because it relates to the US of A. I still think that using the word "football" might be desirable though, if just for the sake of some consistency. Aecis 22:42, 16 October 2005 (UTC)

kuwait-bio-stub / Kuwaiti people stubs
Another one for pruning. This category has had less than 10 entries for several months now, as per this diff. I propose this be deleted, and the stubs merged into its parent, MEast-bio-stub (which contains <100 stub articles). --TheParanoidOne 22:36, 14 October 2005 (UTC)
 * I concur. --Alynna 00:36, 15 October 2005 (UTC)

bike-stub
Delete - it duplicates cycling-stub. Used by 5 articles, it adds articles directly to Category:Transportation. --Vclaw 22:29, 14 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete - cycling-stub is not so large that bikes need to be separated from it. --Alynna 00:36, 15 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete Ambiguous as well - "bike" can mean motorcycle. Grutness...  wha?  06:01, 15 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Speedy delete - was listed at WikiProject Stub sorting/Discoveries since May 12 without remedy, it's time for it to go. I depopulated it, too (changed the remaining four uses to use cycling-stub). --Joy &#91;shallot&#93;   11:45, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

Cigar-stub /
In the twelve weeks since this was created it has been used three times. I doubt that even a gereral smoking stub would be useful - this one far less so. Delete. Grutness...  wha?  05:38, 15 October 2005 (UTC)
 * delete stub it out BL   kiss the lizard  08:16, 16 October 2005 (UTC)

Perth
Given Mairi's comment under "Sydney" (below) about a stub I didn't know about, I'll add Anyone going to find a previously unknown Brisbane stub now? :/ Grutness...  wha?  04:30, 15 October 2005 (UTC)
 * &rarr;, and
 * Perthstub(redirect) &rarr; deletion.


 * Support both. And as far as I can tell, there isn't a Brisbane stub... --Mairi 19:58, 15 October 2005 (UTC)

BurkinaFaso-stub /
This might just about be speediable. This category/template pair is used on a healthy 58 articles. Like to guess how many are geo-stubs? 58. That's right - this is really BurkinaFaso-geo-stub masquerading as a standard stub. With that many stubs (and a reasonable number still marked AfricaW-geo-stub) there shouldn't be any problem with it reaching threshold, but it desperately needs a rename. Grutness...  wha?  09:05, 15 October 2005 (UTC) (PS - sorry to have added so much here today!)
 * Rename - I don't think that this is very contraversial. --Cel e stianpower hablamé 15:56, 15 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Rename. BL   kiss the lizard  08:16, 16 October 2005 (UTC)

Crab-stub /
Currently used on 14 articles. However, there's already crustacean-stub, which is used on 100 articles. And given the small number of crab stubs there (<10 in the first half), it seems doubtful this will get near 60 stubs. Delete --Mairi 03:14, 15 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Weak delete. it could grow, but Crustacean-stub doesn't really need splitting. Yet. Grutness...  wha?  13:48, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

Agronomy-stub /
In the ten weeks since this was created it has been used twice. Useless. Delete. Grutness...  wha?  05:38, 15 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Might be a viable sub type of agri-stub, especially since the Agronomy article is marked with the agri-stub template! I doubt if this could be raised to the >60 range, but it looks like it could certainly be raised to >25 by restubbing from agri-stub. This would also bring that category from just over 200 aticles to under 200 articles making it a one-page category which would be desirable. Caerwine 16:14, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

Delete. we can always make it again if we need it and 200s not too many BL   kiss the lizard  02:33, 22 October 2005 (UTC)

Belize-bio-stub / Belizean people stubs
Another one for pruning. Less than 10 entries for several months, as per this diff. I propose this be deleted, and the stubs merged into its parent, CentralAm-bio-stub (which contains <10 stub articles). --TheParanoidOne 11:40, 15 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. prune away. This one serves no useful purpose. Grutness...  wha?  13:48, 18 October 2005 (UTC)


 * Keep and expand. Kappa 05:28, 20 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete not going to get enough stubs to be ok on its own and if it does it can be made again BL   kiss the lizard  23:44, 20 October 2005 (UTC)
 * How many does it need? Kappa 02:16, 21 October 2005 (UTC)
 * usualy at least fifty or sixty and also the parent catagorys got to need splitting (and CantralAm-bio-stubs only got about ten stubs too) BL   kiss the lizard  22:38, 21 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Well if it's merged it will dominate CentralAm-bio-stub because that only has 5 entries (Belize now has 30). Also Belize is an English-speaking country while the others are all Spanish-speaking, so different people would be interested in expanding them. Kappa 23:33, 21 October 2005 (UTC)

Rename Phil-lit-stub and
The current template name would imply it's for philosophy literature. Furthermore, all 31 articles it's used on are writers. Rename to Philippine-writer-stub (or some other more suitable name). --Mairi 03:23, 15 October 2005 (UTC)
 * I think there was some talk of a Philippine-bio-stub when this was first discovered... Is that necessary, or just the writer-specific one, or both? Rename to something, anyway. --Alynna 03:27, 15 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Shouldn't that be Philippines-writer-stub or Philippines-bio-stub with an 's' at the end?
 * Yes, it should. Mairi 05:07, 15 October 2005 (UTC)
 * 'Rename' to Philippines-writer-stub. Grutness...  wha?  13:48, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

Serbia and Montenegro
Currently, due to abbreviation and un-debated creation, this whole section is a bit of a mess. Currently we have: As far as I see it: I propose combining the first two into SerbiaMontenegro-stub and, and keeping the third category but renaming the template as SerbiaMontenegro-geo-stub. Alternatively, we could have separate Serbia-stub, Serbia-geo-stub, Montenegro-stub and Montenegro-geo-stub templates and equivalent categories. Grutness...  wha?  05:55, 15 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Serbia-stub and
 * Serbia and Montenegro-stub and (little used)
 * SM-geo-stub and
 * the "-related"s have to go.
 * We don't need separate Serbia and Serbia and Montenegro categories
 * There shouldn't be any spaces in the template name
 * For obvious reasons, SM-stub is probably not a good idea.
 * I'd prefer the four-way split option. Works better for back-projection onto historical articles (ie, pre-Yugoslavian Serbia, Serbian culture etc.) and it ought to be easier to redistribute the latter two categories than the first.  ALso, there seems to be a strong sense that Serbia and Montenegro's days as a political entity are numbered, with a Montenegrin independence referendum likely to pass next year. -The Tom 05:50, 16 October 2005 (UTC)
 * I must admit I was thinking the same (about pre-empting the probable political split) Grutness...  wha?  06:04, 16 October 2005 (UTC)
 * The political split may be imminent, but as long as it hasn't occurred, it shouldn't matter in stub sorting. I suggest SerbiaMontenegro-stub and SerbiaMontenegro-geo-stub for articles about the nation as a whole, and Serbia-stub/Serbia-geo-stub / Montenegro-stub/Montenegro-geo-stub for articles relating to either of the constituent parts of Serbia-Montenegro (iff there are enough articles, the same might be considered for Vojvodina and Kosovo). This mirrors what has been done in UK-geo-stub: daughters for England, Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales, and granddaughters for the counties (right?). Aecis 11:40, 16 October 2005 (UTC)
 * I don't see any problem with this. Have the categories renamed to omit the "-related", and two sets of stubs for each republic (even if they decide to remain the same country, chances are that it will still be a group of two distinct countries as it is today). --Joy &#91;shallot&#93;   00:12, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
 * The only problem is the same one with all the categories that are almost totally subdivided - they have to be regularly emptied into their subcategories. otherwise eeverything that should be in the subcats will end up only being put into the main category (I bail about twelve stubs a day from alone into its subcats). Grutness...  wha?  05:21, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
 * I don't think there is any need for a top SCG geo-stub category, because relatively very few geographical features exist in both Serbia and Montenegro, and those that do can and should be double-stubbed with those two. The top SCG stub category might be useful for non-geographical issues that are shared. --Joy &#91;shallot&#93;   11:28, 17 October 2005 (UTC)


 * I think that better solution is the first mentioned, combining stubs into SM stub. Serbia and Montenegro today is one country, wether you like it or not, and you have no right to anticipate future political events.. it is a politization of Wikipedia and it is very malicious. -- Obradovi&#263; Goran  ( t  al  k  19:13, 29 October 2005 (UTC)
 * I agree with Goran. The first choice seems like the most acceptable one and there is really no place for political clairvoyance here. This is a cultural project and whether Serbia and Montenegro will split one day is beside the point. -- Dungo ( talk ) 19:35, 29 October 2005 (UTC)
 * I also agree with Goran and Dungodung --Jovanvb 19:40, 29 October 2005 (UTC)


 * And just to add.. I think that it is unfair to discuss matters concerning Serbia or Serbia and Montenegro without informing someone from Serbian community - when you're pushing your own political agendas, it is only fair to invite all parties concerned to give their oppinions. -- Obradovi&#263; Goran ( t  al  k  19:45, 29 October 2005 (UTC)


 * I support Joy's variant: create SerbiaMontenegro-stub, SerbiaMontenegro-geo-stub, Serbia-stub/Serbia-geo-stub / Montenegro-stub/Montenegro-geo-stub. --Monkbel 16:24, 30 October 2005 (UTC)


 * What about pointing Serbia-stub and Montenegro-stub to category:Serbia and Montenegro stubs, and Serbia-geo-stub and Montenegro-geo-stub to category:Serbia and Montenegro geography stubs? The categories can be split when there are more stubs, or when the two countries split a few months later. &mdash; Instantnood 20:52, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Not a good idea, in order to get the articles into the correct categories if we did it that way, we'd have to do a null edit on every single stub anyway, so it wouldn't save us all that much effort. However, I cerianly wouldn't mind keeping a separate Serbia-stub, but then most of the articles I've been using it on are from the days before the Kingdom of Serbs, Croats, and Slovenes, so I'm not being guilty of crystal-balling at all. Caerwine 05:55, 1 November 2005 (UTC)
 * We don't have to do a null edit, articles will get edited eventually so the things will fix themselves. Nikola 07:39, 3 November 2005 (UTC)
 * I support Aecis's idea (2 SCG + 2S + 2MN). As Joy pointed out, there's probably no need for SM-geo-stub as I can't imagine where it could be possibly put. Duja 16:29, 2 November 2005 (UTC)
 * I am not sure how to solve this mess, but from two proposed solutions I'd agree with Goran that it would be better. By the way, creating Kosovo and Vojvodina stubs would be a major no-no as it would imply that they are not in Serbia. Nikola 07:39, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

This was always going to be a tricky one - and "general consensus" is non existent. Taking all the points on board, I have been bold and created separate Serbia and Montenegro categories, each of them feeding into a parent Serbia and Montenegro category, for both standard and geography stubs. This is in line with similar splits for places like the United Kingdom, where the separate parts each have subcategories of the main. It in no way indicates any political views that the two entities should split, any more than having Scotland-stub, Catalonia-stub, or Tibet-stub indicate a political agenda. It simply reflects the fact that there are items which some editors would likely be more able to edit. Grutness...  wha?  01:49, 4 November 2005 (UTC) To do:
 * I'd like to be able to use all of {yugoslavia-stub}, {serbia-stub}, {montenegro-stub} and their geo variants. What category they are linked to is immaterial and subject to change as needed. And null edits could probably be done by a bot, however sorting could not. --MarSch 11:35, 3 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Well, there's a couple of things here. Firstly what you're suggesting goes against the whole practice of stub-sorting as it is done, that is, stub types useful to editors each with their own dedicated stub category. Secondly, some of those templates would be ridiculous. What point is there in a Yugoslavia-geo-stub, for instance, when there is no such place as Yugoslavia now and all the lands which were part of it have their own dedicated stubs categories? You might as well talk of a Kievian Rus geo-stub and get rid of the Ukraine, Lithuania, Belarus, etc geography categories. Thirdly, this is under "old business" which means that discussion on it is finished anyway, and some of the changes have started being made. Grutness...  wha?  11:44, 3 November 2005 (UTC)
 * creation of Serbia-geo-stub and category, plus move of stubs
 * creation of Montenegro-geo-stub and category, plus move of stubs
 * rename Serbia category and move stubs (can be done by bot)

DE-gov-stub (redirect)
Redirects to Delaware stub, as it was created and moved there today. Used on 1 article. However, DE is also the ISO code for Germany, and even a Delaware-gov-stub likely wouldn't get much use. Delete. --Mairi 03:40, 16 October 2005 (UTC)
 * delete. And now that delaware stub has been moved to delaware-stub, delete Delaware stub, too! Grutness...  wha?  05:46, 16 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Del. BL   kiss the lizard  08:16, 16 October 2005 (UTC)
 * delete. I made it and once done realized I really wanted Delaware-stub. Just learning. Please leave Delaware stub as I will be using it more than some might think. stilltim 11:19, 16 October 2005 (UTC)
 * The problem with delaware stub is that it doesn't meet the formatting guidelines, because of the lack of a hyphen. The articles that use the delaware stub tag instead of the delaware-stub tag can easily be traced and appropriately edited. (this can be counted as a delete vote) Aecis 11:32, 16 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete DE-gov-stub, delaware stub and delaware-stub. Not even close to viability threshold.  Regional stub-cat is adequate until there are many more of these.  Alai 01:54, 17 October 2005 (UTC)


 * Redirects should be listed on RFD. But delete this one as it is confusing. --SPUI (talk) 03:30, 22 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Trying to have it both ways? Do you want it taken to RFD (where they'll tell you to bring it back here) or do you want us to delete it? Grutness...  wha?  07:02, 22 October 2005 (UTC)

Buddhistub /
I propose renaming the template to buddhism-stub (which currently is a redirect to buddhistub) and the category to. Aecis 10:51, 16 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Rename "buddhism-stub". Portmanteau is confusing --MacRusgail 19:30, 16 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Rename Alai 01:54, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
 * I support renaming (despite the fact that it's harder to type) if the XYZ-stub is currently a standard in use for all stub templates. So, that's a rename if the person who closes this discussion makes a factual judgment that it is a universal standard, and a keep if the person closing judges otherwise. I do support moving the category, because it's shorter and appears to be the standard on other stub types. - Nat Krause 09:04, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
 * It is the standard, though it is not yet used for all templates. It isn't currently used for Buddhistub for instance. But it is used for about 95% of them, and we're working on the other 5%. I suggest you check WikiProject Stub sorting/Naming guidelines. Grutness... wha? 09:38, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Redirect I have no problem with making the base stub Buddhism-stub, but keep Buddhistub as a redirect. I like the portmanteau. Caerwine 23:11, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Renaming will entail a redirect as well, no? --Clay Collier 10:03, 19 October 2005 (UTC)
 * We don't always keep the old name around, especially if, as in this case, it violates the usual naming standards, which despite the fact I like it, it certainly does.  (I would also be in favor of adding motorcycle-maintenence-stub as a redirect to Zen-stub.) Caerwine 05:08, 20 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Rename. Per nom. --Clay Collier 10:03, 19 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Rename. I already updated my Thirteen Tiered Pagoda stub. Mancomb 16:44, 21 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Rename, ditto to above comments. I've started using the new one. Reaverdrop 05:06, 22 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Rename. Blank Verse  &empty;  06:01, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

SA-stub
I propose renaming the abbreviated SA-stub to the unabbreviated SouthAfrica-stub. Aecis 22:32, 16 October 2005 (UTC)
 * SA's one we've been turning a blind eye to... but you're probably right - and what about SA-geo-stub? Given that a saudi Arabia geo-split is likely soon (and there's already a South Australia geo-stub) it's probably a good idea. Grutness...  wha?  23:40, 16 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Rename them both, and likewise, SA-mil-stub. Alai 01:54, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
 * We have a Saudi-stub, so this isn't needed for disambiguation, but as long as it's done on all of the RSA stubs including SA-road-stub, I have no objections to a rename. Caerwine 23:18, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Well technically Saudi-stub's name implies that it's only for stubs about the royal family, so that needs a rename too. In any case, simply having Saudi-stub doesn't mean that people won't think SA-stub could be about Saudi Arabia. Grutness...  wha?  01:06, 18 October 2005 (UTC)


 * Rename it, SA is just a wee bit too ambiguous. The fact that it doesn't match a country code for South Africa is what tips the scale for me. (Granted, for UK it doesn't either, but that's more entrenched.) --Joy &#91;shallot&#93;   16:15, 22 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Hmmm... rename is probably the only option worth considering, though it might take a while to change my habits (it's one of my most-used stub cats). I think SouthAfrica-stub and ZA-stub are the best options (I prefer ZA). Perhaps a redirect from the one to the other? --Taejo | Talk 15:33, 23 October 2005 (UTC)
 * There are two problems with ZA - first, the naming guidelines specifically say to avoid abbreviations, and second ZA could be every bit as confusing as SA. since it's a Foo-stub form, Foo doesn't necessarily refer to a country name, so ISO abbreviations are too ambiguous. AM-stub isn't about Armenia, for instance - it's about radio (and needs a rename). ZA is a recognised code for South Africa, Zambia, a Chinese language, and a region of Russia. Grutness...  wha?  00:25, 24 October 2005 (UTC)


 * Rename. Blank Verse  &empty;  05:58, 25 October 2005 (UTC)


 * Comment There are still some articles with Sa-stub which need to be cleaned up when this is done. MeltBanana  19:45, 28 October 2005 (UTC)
 * there were just 4 of them so not any more :) BL   kiss the lizard  22:35, 28 October 2005 (UTC)

Nebraska-stub and
Created at the beginning of the month. had four stubs 9two of which were geo-stubs). I added the category, just so that articles didn't get "lost" while this debate was going on. No known WikiProject. Delete, as per precedent of other such state-stubs. Grutness...  wha?  09:28, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Sorry about that; I should have looked into the standards for stub creation. My bad.  Delete –Swid 15:40, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

Music Video-stub &rarr; Music-video-stub
Only created today and used twice, but there is a wikiproject. Rename to standard capitalization and hyphenation, tho. --Mairi 04:47, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
 * agreed. Rename. Grutness...  wha?  04:51, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

Wikisite-stub / Category:Wikisite stubs
Abit too specific for a stub category. Currently used on 1 article (only created today). Delete --Mairi 03:06, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
 * I disagree, a website is a wiki, but a wiki is not only a website. I am only interested in wikis--Mac 09:52, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
 * I also disagree... it's not "a bit too specific". it's a lot too specific. Delete. Grutness...  wha?  12:45, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

Pointless, delete. Angela. 16:47, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Web is not wiki. This category is usefull for navigation.Don't delete--Nonaz 19:12, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
 * What an interesting first edit. Angela. 20:53, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Sorry, because of be newbie (I don't live in Wikipedia, like others). I feel spied :( . --84.121.0.21 17:57, 20 October 2005 (UTC)
 * catagory:wikisite would be used for navigating anyway. A stubcat is for editors and nothing to do with navigation. Delete. BL   kiss the lizard  22:06, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete template, delete category, and strong delete of sockpuppetry quite that blatent. Alai 02:40, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

Rename to
No need to have an abbreviation in the category name. --Mairi 17:57, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Fair enough. Alai 02:40, 19 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Agreed. The abbreviation's fine for the template, but categories should have full names where possible. Grutness...  wha?  23:44, 19 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Done. It can be listed at CFD. Alphax&amp;nbsp; &tau;&epsilon;&chi; 03:03, 22 October 2005 (UTC)
 * What's done? Not the recategorisation, at any rate, which requires about 150 null edits.  The source category needn't be cfd'd, that's why it's listed here.  And please also note, from the intro to this page:  After a voting period of seven days, action will be taken if there is consensus on the fate of the stub type. Please do not act before this period is over.  Alai 03:18, 22 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Alphax - if you try listing this at CFD they'll tell you to take it to SFD. Stub categories are handled here, by the rules of this page. Those rules are there for a reason, so please follow them - including waiting before creating any replacement categories. If ten people suddently voted oppose to this category change (unlikely, but not impossible), we'd have to go through the whole thing again with your newly created category. As it is the old category can't be deleted until null-edits are performed on all the stubs in it, which won't be happening until the voting process is completed. I've (probably temporarily) reverted the template, as there is nothing worse than trying to sort our what needs changing from a whatlinkshere list if a category name has been changed over half way through a stub's use - or for editors to follow the category link on a template only to discover a nearly empty category. That's why we wait, and do the changeover as quickly as possible once the voting is over. Grutness...  wha?  06:41, 22 October 2005 (UTC)

California County Routes Stub /
A recent discuvery missed out in the previous road discussions below. Is this one needed at all? If it is, surely California-road-stub is a better name... Grutness...  wha?  23:53, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
 * There is a WP that goes with this. WikiProject California County Routes However it would be nice to make it singular. --Rschen7754 (talk - contribs) 01:51, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

What was the consensus? --Rschen7754 (talk - contribs) 01:47, 11 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep as is capitalized per WP:MOS and possibly add hyphens to placate the people who desire them if needed. It's attached to a wikiproject.Gateman1997 02:08, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep but rename.. There is a WikiProject, and List of California County Routes shows a l-o-n-g list of non-yet-created, and not-yet-tagged California county route articles. The rename should add dashes, per WP:WSS, and county route should be singular and lower case, per WP:MOS. Blank Verse  &empty;  02:18, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep as is, maybe hyphens. California County Route is a specific classification. Just as a road could be maintained by the county (rural areas?) but still not be a County Route. --Rschen7754 (talk - contribs) 02:22, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Rename to California-county-route-stub, as there is a wikiproject. Definitely needs to be singular, hyphenated and 'stub' lowercased. --Mairi 02:56, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Rename to either California-road-stub or California-county-route-stub; or if all else fails, as a matter of complete-red-line, do-we-have-to-have-a-formal-policy-to-say-it, "end your stub template names in '-stub'", California-County-Route-stub. There's some actual logic to this one, as there's two different road-stub-cats for California (as opposed to the ones that have come along since, which have only one per state, yet insist on being specific to "State Highways").  Alai 17:19, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Rename to either California-county-route-stub or California-County-Route-stub. --Alynna 17:58, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Rename to California-road-stub which can cover both state routes and county routes in California, It would also have the advantage of covering non state or county roads, and even stubs for Interstate highways and US highways in California can be marked with this in addition to UShighway-stub and Interstate-stub. And if not that, at least correct the capitalization to California-county-route-stub -Jeff 13:28, 19 October 2005 (UTC)
 * There is a distinction between California County Route and California county route. The former is in the system; the other is just any ordinary route that runs in the county. Interstate 5 is a California county route but not a California County Route. --Rschen7754 (talk - contribs) 00:03, 20 October 2005 (UTC)
 * That's not what I get from county route. Interstates will presumably be sorted as such anyway:  what roads are there that are "county routes" but not "County Routes" (by which I gather you mean, with that precise phrase in their names), that would be liable to be undesirably included in a lowercased name?  I get the impression that either, a) there aren't any, or b) including them in the stub type would be organisationally useful.  Alai 01:50, 21 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Sorry, that was a really retarded example I gave. Here is another: Spruce Street is located out in the rural country, away from any major city. It is a residential street (residential because 2 people live on it). In fact, it is a dirt road. Would it be a county route? After all, it is maintained by the county... and it implies that people can write Wikipedia articles about their rural residential streets. Also, this stub goes with a WP- and the WP considers County Routes to be numbered. (A17, etc). --Rschen7754 (talk - contribs) 02:13, 21 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Fair enough. :) Given the apparent state of my brain this evening, I can't really cast any stones.  I would have thought it wasn't a "county route" in the sense of the county highway/county route/county road article, which uses exactly the definition you have in mind (as I understand it, at least), but doesn't capitalise it.  Obviously in the case of simply -road-, what you say would be quite true, and seems to me to be broadly desirable.  (If there ever got to be a lot of these, then re-splitting in more specific terms would start to make more sense.)  Though I do think the existing, on-going WP should have a certain degree of latitude here in scope of definition, so I'm not gung-ho in favour of -road- in this case, though I'd personally mildly prefer it.  Alai 03:27, 21 October 2005 (UTC)
 * In that case, Spruce Street would be considered a county road but not a county route. A county route is a numbered route, a county road is any road maintained by the county.-Jeff 13:41, 9 November 2005 (UTC)

This is probably better here than at cfd - if it looks like a duck, swims like a duck and quacks, it's a stub category. Exactly duplicated the just-deleted/renamed (now ), except with a completely different set of suburbs. This should be deleted, since it's already perfectly well covered by. Grutness...  wha?  02:42, 19 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Speedy delete as G4: "A substantially identical copy, by any title, of a page that was deleted according to the deletion policy." Aecis 12:58, 21 October 2005 (UTC)
 * done. Grutness...  wha?  06:30, 22 October 2005 (UTC)

Created today along with the matching author-stub. I've redirected that to writer-stub, as the terms are insufficiently distinguishable. Delete the category, as it has no use. --Mairi 22:47, 19 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom. Caerwine 05:01, 20 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. Alai 00:57, 21 October 2005 (UTC)

AU-depot-stub and Australia-depot-stub (both redirects)
Both of these currently redirect to Australia-rail-stub. I'm ambivalent about Australia-depot-stub, but the AU one should definitely go. It's currently fairly heavily used, but after the shifting-around of melbourne and Sydney stubs currently going on it should be a fairly manageable size for re-stubbing and Australia-depot-stub should be almost empty. Grutness...  wha?  00:58, 19 October 2005 (UTC)
 * delete both and restub articles to use Australia-rail-stub. I'd be surprised if there are five articles using the word "depot" in them as that is not the word for a railway station here. --Scott Davis Talk 01:30, 21 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep redirects. --SPUI (talk) 03:30, 22 October 2005 (UTC)
 * delete as Scott says the words not used in australia and au could be anywhere BL   kiss the lizard  21:54, 24 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. Blank <font color= 	#F88017>Verse <font color=#2554C7> <font color=#F660AB>&empty;  05:55, 25 October 2005 (UTC)
 * A definite delete for AU-depot-stub. Australia-depot-stub would be worth keeping as a redirect for Australia-railstation-stub if it existed, but since it doesn't, delete Australia-depot-stub as well. Caerwine 04:09, 26 October 2005 (UTC)

Ug-geo-stub (redirect)
While we're thinking about UGly redirect names, Ug-geo-stub - a largely unused redirect to uganda-geo-stub, fits that bill perfectly. Only three articles use it (two of which are actually university stubs). This one can also be deleted readily. Grutness...  wha?  11:08, 20 October 2005 (UTC) (dammit I hate edit conflicts!)
 * Now this one is confusing. Delete and/or make a template disambiguation Alphax &tau;&epsilon;&chi; 02:59, 22 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. Though at least it ends in -stub. :)  Alai 03:55, 22 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. Blank <font color= 	#F88017>Verse <font color=#2554C7> <font color=#F660AB>&empty;  05:36, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

space+stub redirects
These redirects:
 * NYCS stub
 * Hanna-Barbera stub
 * PBS stub
 * Ecoregion stub
 * Dance stub
 * Tennis stub

all point to $1-stub, but all are listed at the stub redirects page as a redirect from an alternate name, which they actually aren't - the're just a remnant of a wrong naming convention. They need to be phased out in favor of the properly hyphenated name and deleted. --Joy &#91;shallot&#93;   10:55, 20 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Can we also add Cricket stub? Grutness...  wha?  11:08, 20 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Why? What's wrong with a redirect? Keep all. --SPUI (talk) 19:30, 20 October 2005 (UTC)


 * delete SPUI we dont mind redirects if theyre names are right but these ones the names are bad. Hyphens are used on all stub names. BL   kiss the lizard  23:38, 20 October 2005 (UTC)
 * I ask again - what's wrong with these redirects? --SPUI (talk) 00:13, 22 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Exactly what BL Lacertae says. They're not in line with standard stub redirect naming. They don't have hyphens, which all stubs do, according to stub naming protocol. As such - like all the others which have been deleted here before for the same reason - they should go. Grutness...  wha?  00:57, 22 October 2005 (UTC)
 * What about that makes them wrong as a redirect? --SPUI (talk) 01:04, 22 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Their name. They don't follow stub naming rules. BL   kiss the lizard  01:10, 22 October 2005 (UTC)
 * The name is wrong (damn edit conflicts!) Grutness...  wha?  01:11, 22 October 2005 (UTC)
 * That would be a problem if they were stub templates. But these are redirects. Read Redirect. Learn what a redirect is. Also read . And remove this shit when you're done. --SPUI (talk) 01:13, 22 October 2005 (UTC)
 * That's besides the point. The point is that we do not need these half a dozen redirects when we don't at the same time have redirects for bio stub, sci stub, hist stub or even ST ep stub. Keeping these few black goats does not really help much, it may only encourage more of this fodder to appear. --Joy &#91;shallot&#93;
 * doesnt matter if theyre redirects or not the name is still wrong and that page you linked is about articles not templates. and grutnesses changes to the page were putting in something that everyone who uses this page does anyway for newbies who didnt know. if it was just grutness then there wouldnt be redirects on this page listed by me or joy or mairi and the archive has lots of redirects deleted here since the page started, most of them deleted because the names were wrong BL   kiss the lizard  01:31, 22 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep, redirects are cheap and it's damned annoying having to check each one of these (and similar) for spaces and hyphens before you use it. However, if there is an established convention for hyphens, move all existing stubs with spaces in them to ones with hyphens. The point of redirects is to make it easier for links to get to their targets - if we start ditching all these redirects, why don't we remove Free links from Mediawiki while we're at it and only allow CamelCase? Alphax &tau;&epsilon;&chi; 02:55, 22 October 2005 (UTC) Delete then. Alphax &tau;&epsilon;&chi; 16:19, 23 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Yes, there is an established convention for hyphens. Please see WikiProject Stub sorting/Naming guidelines. --Joy &#91;shallot&#93;
 * Ok. Alphax &tau;&epsilon;&chi; 16:19, 23 October 2005 (UTC)
 * First of all, I think they're correctly listed here. If redirects to stub-types aren't stub-types for all practical, procedural purposes, I don't know what they are.  If we want to cross the t's on this, we can make the wording on this explicit, and double-check with RfD that they're not going to feel horribly cheated thereby.  On the merits of retaining them:  I think on balance it's a good idea to get rid of them.  They don't serve the same purpose as redirects in the article space, and in this case, they're just adding to the impression of stub naming conventions as an ad hoc mess.  (It is "stub-stub"?  "stub stub"?  "stub-Stub"?  etc.)  Sooner we make these entirely consistent, and get people used to using the canonical sort, the better.  There may be other cases in which there's a clearer case for retention, but frankly if they're removed over-zealously, it'll be stub-sorters that end up fixing it, so there's an "on our own heads be it" logic to this being decided here.  And lastly, can we please not have edit wars on meta-pages, and come to that, gratuitous incivility?  Alai 03:12, 22 October 2005 (UTC)
 * D'oh, the scope aspect is already covered explicitly on this page. I'll stop now before I start personally attacking myself.  Alai 03:55, 22 October 2005 (UTC)
 * I added it yesterday when it became clear that not everyone knew the scope of this page yet. I'd assumed - since we've been dealing with redirects since this page started and no-one had complained - that everyone knew we'd been dealing with redirects as well. But apparently not, so (as I stated on the talk page) I clarified things. Grutness...  wha?  05:56, 22 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Yeah, it's here because Grutness just added it here. The point of this page was to combine discussions that had been split between TFD and CFD - a redirect does not have that problem. --SPUI (talk) 06:40, 22 October 2005 (UTC)
 * It was added because one editor in four months didn't understand how this page works and has worked since it started. Everyone else seems to understand it perfectly well. I decided to clarify things to stop someone else stumbling on the page in February 2006 and thinking something was wrong. Look at the page's earliest archive - we've been debating the deletion of redirects here since the day this page went live. That wouldn't have happened if it was only intended for categories and direct templates. And if it was, then there would have been complaints from those watching page deletions as soon as we started deleting redirects. There were none. Grutness...  wha?  06:57, 22 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Nah, I think you're just too wrapped up in your stub sorting shit to realize that redirects are useful. Got that? Useful. --SPUI (talk) 09:19, 22 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Grutness, seems a logical addition to me, as per my after-the-fact suggestion. I've left a message at RFD to check they don't consider their turf (or indeed toes) to be being trod on.
 * SPUI, the original motivation was in part to deal with said combinations, but now that we have this as a stand-alone process, it makes sense to consider stub categories without templates, and stub templates without categories, for the simple reason of having related discussion about the same "quasi-namespace" in the one place. If we started listing the former at WP:CFD, the latter at WP:TFD, and the redirects at WP:RFD, people would think we'd gone slightly mad.  And then tell us to take it back here, as Grutness says.  And again, can we please have a bit of civility of tone?  Alai 15:44, 22 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Some redirects ar useful. Others aren't. If all redirects were useful, we wouldn't have an RFD page. But we do - because some redirects are not useful. For the same reason, not all stub redirects are deleted. We keep them if they're useful and worth keeping. You've even voted against a stub redirect yourself further down this page - so clearly not all stub redirects are useful. Grutness...  wha?  10:46, 22 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. Blank <font color= 	#F88017>Verse <font color=#2554C7> <font color=#F660AB>&empty;  05:40, 25 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete Tedernst 07:49, 27 October 2005 (UTC)

fictional-place stub
Weve got a fcit-location-stub and this looks... nasty. delete! BL   kiss the lizard  22:51, 21 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Yikes! Another of User:Maoririder's creations, by the looks of it! Get rid of it! Grutness...  wha?  06:00, 22 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Here goes... now someone can write a article about jggjjfffjlgnflgnegnwghroghorgrhgnfgm,b df,bnfjgofigiorgjrgk,ergnreg and put the stub tag on it. Delete. --Rschen7754 (talk - contribs) 06:11, 22 October 2005 (UTC)

bioinformatics-stub
Used once in two months, no cat, v. specialized. delete? BL  kiss the lizard  22:43, 21 October 2005 (UTC)


 * Delete as per nom. --Mairi 18:09, 23 October 2005 (UTC)

North-Korea-bio-stub /
Between these two stub types there are only some 90 articles, and considering that - with the exception of fifty years of Korea's exceptionally long history - the two parts have not been divided, it would make a certain amount of sense to merge these into a single Korea-bio-stub and. If the vote is to keep the current set up, I'd suggest losing the first hyphen of the templates and making it NorthKora- and SouthKorea-. Grutness...  wha?  11:58, 21 October 2005 (UTC)


 * I created these and agree, a single korea-bio-stub is a better idea. I would have simply deleted these myself and created a unitary one, but I didn't want to bother having to get bureaucratic authorization to do so. Sarge Baldy 15:08, 21 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Speedy deletemergerename then, as creator agrees. Alai 04:26, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

papal-stub to pope-stub
Afaik, the general format for stub templates is [noun]-stub. Aecis 11:12, 21 October 2005 (UTC)
 * It is... so renaming looks like a good idea for this one. Grutness...  wha?  11:33, 21 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Rename per Grutness. --WikiFanaticTalk Contribs 5:18, 23 October 2005 (CDT)
 * Rename Alai 04:26, 25 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Rename Vermi 06:03, 26 October 2005 (UTC)
 * (as if one needed more consensus) Rename. --AnOddName 00:07, 4 November 2005 (UTC)

&rarr;
Newly created as per WP:WSS/P, but the creator of it didn't realise we've been getting rid of the "-related"s. Rename now while it's still quite small. Grutness...  wha?  07:22, 22 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Rename Alai 04:26, 25 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Rename, but to instead ;) Aecis 23:01, 26 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Whoops! Damn stuttering! :) Grutness...  wha?  23:48, 26 October 2005 (UTC)

Greeting-stub /
Too specific, rather doubtful there's near 60 stub articles. Delete --Mairi 01:49, 22 October 2005 (UTC) Woah. Um....yes. Delete. Why was this created in the first place? --WikiFanaticTalk Contribs 5:35, 23 October 2005 (CDT)
 * retag these as socio-stub and lose this stub type, I'd say. Grutness...  wha?  11:19, 24 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete Alai 04:26, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

Gib-stub &
Badly undersized (21, and that's including some locations), not well-named, and has "-related" in the category name to boot. Can't find any trace of this on a criteria, proposals, or discoveries page (aside from Instantnood having just cited it as a precedent). Alai 21:16, 22 October 2005 (UTC)
 * It was listed somewhere, a long time ago (discoveries, I think - before SFD was up and running). At the very least both category and template need renaming, but unless it suddenly gets a flood of stubs, I'd be just as happy if it wasn't there at all. Grutness...  wha?  22:29, 22 October 2005 (UTC)

Weak Keep Just went through all the articles marked with or one of its subcats and managed to raise this to 40 stubs by marking stub articles with this stub. It's still marginal and I definitely would favor renaming to Gibraltar-stub & but this is like Macau and China; by size it's a marginal stub category that would get swamped if absorbed by its parent. Caerwine 23:22, 23 October 2005 (UTC)
 * More to the point, it doesn't really have a parent. We'd need a "British colonies and overseas territories stubs" category for that. Grutness...  wha?  11:17, 24 October 2005 (UTC)
 * We do have a BritOT-geo-stub, so a BritOT-stub would be feasible as a parent for Gib-stub, Cayman-stub, about a dozen Anguila stubs in Caribbean-stub or even a replacement to send the stubs to if we get rid of Gib-stub and Cayman-stub (currently at 23 stubs). Caerwine 04:15, 25 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Yeees, but BritOT-geo-stub is a bit of a kludge (and isn't well named, either). All but one of the stubs we had that didn't fit into continent categories was for a British colony (the last one, for St. Pierre, in St. Pierre and Miquelon, I expanded beyond stub level). Gibraltar's geo-stubs are normally found marked Euro-geo-stub. Most of the stubs in britOT are things like the Br. Indian Ocean Territories, the Falklands, and Tristan da Cunha. Grutness...  wha?  05:49, 26 October 2005 (UTC)
 * As St. Pierre and Miquellon is a French possession off the coast of Newfoundland, its stubs could have gone into a NorthAm-geo-stub if it existed. But back to Gibraltar, what's wrong with having use  as a parent? (Other than it should be  that is.) It even shares an MEP district with the UK. After all, I don't think the Spanish irredentists will complain too much about using UK as a parent for Gibraltar. Caerwine 04:40, 27 October 2005 (UTC)
 * because it's not in the United Kingdom - it's one of its colonies. it would be like having Puerto Rico and Guam in the United States categories. Note, however, that BritOT-geo is a subcategory of UK-geo, although it's not a particularly good place for it. Grutness...  wha?  10:08, 27 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Well since I happen to be of the opinion that Puerto Rico and Guam belong in the United States category, that's not a particularly effective argument to persuade me. They just happen to both have a second parent (Caribbean and Oceania respectively) for purposes of stub sorting. They really ought to add "Wikipedia is not a tree." to WP:NOT as far as I'm concerned. Caerwine 22:27, 27 October 2005 (UTC)
 * St. Pierre and Miquellon is an integral part of France, so it fits into both France-geo-stub and NorthAm-geo-stub. British overseas territories and crown dependencies are not part of the UK, but the relations of Guam and Puerto Rico to the US is more ambiguous. &mdash; Instantnood 06:39, 30 October 2005 (UTC)

War-stub &rarr; Mil-hist-stub
More likely to reach threshold with a broader scope, which would also handily serve as a super-cat for battle-, WWI- and WWII-. Note that there is a Wikiproject, but it's currently debating whether to merge itself, so this proposal seems in keeping with that spirit. :) Alai 04:32, 22 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Oppose. Not because I've got any real love for this template, but because there is currently debate going on about it on three different wikiprojects! It is mentioned on WP:WSS/P and WP:WSS/D as a possible redirect to battle-stub, but we're busy waiting to see whether WikiProject Wars and WikiProject Battles merge (which sounds likely) before doing anything about it. Grutness...  wha?  05:48, 22 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Still adamant? :) Alai 06:19, 26 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Comment &mdash; the situation with the two projects should be resolved in a day or so, presumably via a merger. However, the more general discussion surrounding this seems to have put the specific talk of where to redirect war-stub on hold; my personal preference would be to create mil-hist-stub as above, but if such further cluttering of the mil-stub hierarchy is a bad idea, it could be redirected to battle-stub directly. Kirill Lokshin 17:14, 22 October 2005 (UTC)
 * I think the 'further cluttering' is a good idea, myself! The root category, mil-stub, has only recently dipped below the 800 upper threshold, so a bit more structure on it is a thoroughly good idea, IMO.  Alai 20:46, 22 October 2005 (UTC)
 * mil-hist-stub is a problem as hist-stubs been split by country so it would cut through several catagories BL   kiss the lizard  18:37, 22 October 2005 (UTC)
 * I concur with Kirill with the rename, it's the most accurate rename. But I think (for the reasons Lacertae mentions) we should see it as a subdivision of mil rather than hist. Thus, maybe hist-mil-stub may make more sense. The Minister of War 20:22, 22 October 2005 (UTC)
 * I'm happy with either mil-hist- or hist-mil-. Just put it that way round as  is the most obvious name of the category, and corresponds with the proposed name of the merged WP...  Obviously, it'd equally be a sub-cat of both.  Alai 20:46, 22 October 2005 (UTC)
 * The proposed name is Military History (Historical Military doesnt sound half as good :-) ), so i guess mil-hist-stub would be better then? Also, i've noticed there already is a subdivision on Military History within the history category, so it seems the damage to the subcategories in hist will be minimal. The Minister of War 21:42, 22 October 2005 (UTC)
 * I support the creation of the mil-hist-stub. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus Talk 00:37, 24 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Support the above proposal now that the project merger is complete. Kirill Lokshin 03:09, 24 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Support. The Minister of War 09:18, 24 October 2005 (UTC)

Jersey-bcast-stub / Category:Jersey broadcasting stubs
Used on only 2 articles, even tho it was created 2 months ago. I rather doubt there's near 60 relevant articles. Delete. --Mairi
 * Way too specific. Delete. --Alynna 23:07, 23 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete Alai 04:26, 25 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. Scope currently too narrow. --TheParanoidOne 20:18, 30 October 2005 (UTC)

UN-stub and its redirect un-stub
One at a time:
 * 1) UN-stub used to be for the United Nations, but since February its scope has been broadened to International organisations in general (it feeds into . So why the old name? This should be renamed to International-org-stub or maybe intl-org-stub.
 * 2) un-stub is a very misleadingly named redirect now (does this mean it's been un-stubbed?) If UN-stub's name is changed it will be even worse. It's only used on about 10 articles, which can easily be re-stubbed - this one can be deleted (BTW, the old United nations stub category, recently rediscovered, was speedied since it had been empty for eight months) Grutness...  wha?  09:00, 23 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Agree on both counts. Both names are misleading, for different reasons. --Alynna 23:07, 23 October 2005 (UTC)


 * A definite delete on un-stub, but I think there are enough UN-stubs that are actually related to the UN (at least 40 judging from just the article names) that splitting off a new parent stub for UN-stub should work reasonably well. (i.e. create int-stub or int-org-stub (.int is the domain name for international organizations so using just int should be clear enough) feeding into the existing and then have UN-stub feed into . Caerwine 23:59, 23 October 2005 (UTC)
 * I think 'int' still has the possibility of being ambiguous; my first thought would be internet, not international. It's also a standard abbreviation for integer in programming languages (which is what int redirects to), so I'm sure someone would find an odd use of int-stub based on that (although that shouldn't be a problem with int-org-stub). --Mairi 20:04, 8 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Rename, keep UN-stub as a redirect, but delete un-stub. Alai 04:26, 25 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete for the verb-like un-stub. No comment on UN-stub. --TheParanoidOne 20:18, 30 October 2005 (UTC)
 * confused. I can't figure out what is being proposed here, but it looks like the category at High Commissioner on National Minorities is scheduled for deletion. I can't figure out why. Help! Trollderella 21:08, 21 November 2005 (UTC)
 * I've moved UN-stub to int-org-stub. I ask that this stub not be botted, I'm doing a manual change so that I can also see whether there are enough UN specific stubs so as to be worth maintaining it as a separate stub type. Caerwine 16:10, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

Aust-stub (redirect)
Austria? Australia? Austin? Australia, apparently. Made two months ago (without the knowledge of WSS, who would, I'm sure, have turned it down flat), and used seven times since then (three of them for things that weren't Australia-stubs anyway). delete. Grutness...  wha?  10:14, 24 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep redirects. --SPUI (talk) 00:16, 25 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete, although I'm glad to find someone else who supports redirects, if people are carelessly adding this thing to non-Australian articles, it's not worth having. Kappa 00:20, 25 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete ambiguous redirects. -Mairi 02:18, 25 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete, ambiguous. Alai 04:26, 25 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. Blank <font color= 	#F88017>Verse <font color=#2554C7> <font color=#F660AB>&empty;  05:46, 25 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete, ambigouos notanotheridiot
 * Delete BL   kiss the lizard  00:35, 26 October 2005 (UTC)

Canada-edu-stub
talked about on the discovery page. created as a redirect to canada-university-stub using the old name we dont use any more. BL  kiss the lizard  22:21, 24 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Yeah. This isn't speediable, because we haven't has a canada-edu-stub before, but all the other edu-stubs have gone as being too ambiguous (since they refer to universities, not education as a whole) so delete. Grutness...  wha?  01:54, 25 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete; bad redirect created from patching move that should never have happened. --Mairi 02:00, 26 October 2005 (UTC)


 * Delete as per above. --TheParanoidOne 21:04, 30 October 2005 (UTC)

Fungi-stub /
Plural names, which is a little unusual, to say the least. Rename to Fungus-stub (currently a redirect) and. Grutness...  wha?  11:14, 24 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Rename Alai 04:26, 25 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Rename as per sbove. --TheParanoidOne 21:04, 30 October 2005 (UTC)

Arch-stub (redirect)
Archaeologist? Archaeology? Architect? Archbishop? Archduke? Archdeacon? Arches? No. This template redirects to Architecture-stub. I think this one is a bit too ambiguous. Aecis 12:26, 24 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Fair enough. ISTR I created this one, but you're right, it is ambiguous and should go (PS - it is used for arches! :) Grutness...  wha?  12:42, 24 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Shouldn't arches be under struct-stub? ;) Aecis 21:57, 24 October 2005 (UTC)
 * no. strict-stubs for individual buildings and arch-stubs for features of buildings! BL   kiss the lizard  22:21, 24 October 2005 (UTC)
 * I think you miss Aecis's joke. Arches are under a lot of structures :) Grutness...  wha?  01:49, 25 October 2005 (UTC)
 * gah. my brain must be on strike :) BL   kiss the lizard  00:35, 26 October 2005 (UTC)


 * Keep redirects. --SPUI (talk) 00:16, 25 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete, horribly ambiguous. Alai 04:26, 25 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. Blank <font color= 	#F88017>Verse <font color=#2554C7> <font color=#F660AB>&empty;  05:30, 25 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete as per above. --TheParanoidOne 21:04, 30 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Post-vote period comment: This redirect has never had sfd-r on it ... --TheParanoidOne 08:47, 1 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep. Even WP:CP doesn't redirect to Community Portal. <font color=#007dff>De ryc  k C.  09:34, 7 November 2005 (UTC)

Connecticut-stub
Created in June, unused at present. There is no Wikiproject for Connecticut either. Delete as we've done with other US state stubs. Also delete the awful trying-to-be-a-category Connecticut-Stub. --Mairi 03:29, 26 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete unused stub templates from June. Holy smeg, delete templates that think they're categories. --Alynna 03:54, 26 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete as per precedent of other non-WikiProject state-stubs. I think the "catemplategory" can be speedied as nonsense. Grutness...  wha?  05:44, 26 October 2005 (UTC)

Days-stub
I'm really not sure what this is for; I don't think any articles on days of the year or days of the week are stubs. It's unused and sufficiently malformed (including no category), that nothing there helps. Delete. --Mairi 02:54, 26 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom --Alynna 03:54, 26 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete as per above. --TheParanoidOne 21:11, 30 October 2005 (UTC)

Independance-stub
Vague scope, which cuts across numerous existing categories. Currently used on one article (which is about movies related to Indian independence). Delete. --Mairi 01:13, 26 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Wow, could this possibly get more vague? Or overlap with more categories? Delete, not useful --Alynna 01:45, 26 October 2005 (UTC)


 * since we can't really redirect it to sociology-stub, poli-stub, and statistics-stub (all of which use the term "independent"), this should be deleted. And it's not even spelt right. Is there a category? Grutness...  wha?  02:17, 26 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Nope, just a redlink. Possibly film-stub too, for either the page it's on now, or independent films. ;) --Mairi 02:36, 26 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete vague stub. --TheParanoidOne 21:11, 30 October 2005 (UTC)
 * 'Delete - vague, misspelled, and underutilized. Engineer Bob 06:37, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

El Salvador-bcast-stub & Guatemala-bcast-stub &
The only thing more embaressing than the fact that someone created them is that its taken almost 3 months since they were discovered for someone to place them up for deletion. 2 articles in the El Salvador cat and 0 in the Guatemala. Caerwine 20:07, 27 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. --Monkbel 06:18, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. Scope currently too narrow. --TheParanoidOne 06:40, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete, if there were enough stubs overall, a CentralAm-bcast-stub might be useful, but on the count from these two it looks unlikely at present. Grutness...  wha?  02:00, 4 November 2005 (UTC)

I thought this could be sorted out without a formal listing, but it seems not... Was created without being proposed;  no count of the number of appropriate stubs;  doesn't follow the "don't use '-related' in category names" convention. This was seemingly originally created as an attempt at a redirect to along with (the also not proposed) Category:Scotland stubs (to which two of those objections also stand, but which on balance seems like a good idea to me). We seem to have ended up with this as the "real" category simply because User:Mais oui! has taken it upon himself to undo my attempt to fix this, single-handedly populate the category, and then complain at length at WP:CFD (of all places) about WP:WSS's high-handed assumption of power, or something. So much for fixing this up while it was still small, I suppose... Delete, restore and populate, and point Scotland-stub there instead. Alai 23:18, 26 October 2005 (UTC)
 * I fully support this proposal. Aecis 23:36, 26 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Ditto here. BTW, some of you might like to add to the comments I've put at CFD...? Grutness...  wha?  23:44, 26 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Comment. I forgot to mention, that although there's no Wikiproject Scotland, the recently created Scottish Wikipedians' notice board seems to draw its scope in such a way as to essentially be the same thing, so might be construed as a foster-parent for this topic (though hopefully not, particular category name);  not that I think there's any real worry on "viability" anyway, there's just not an actual count yet, beyond the 27 in the category at present.  Alai 00:39, 27 October 2005 (UTC)
 * del Scotland-related stubs and use Scotland stubs. BL   kiss the lizard  06:02, 27 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Comment: While discussion continues, move the content to either one first. &mdash; Instantnood 06:40, 30 October 2005 (UTC)
 * So far, there's no dissent; I was hoping the creator and re-mover would agree we could speedy this, before the category gets too much larger (there were two articles in it when this was first brought up).  But they haven't opposed here either, perhaps we can do so anyway?  Alai 15:38, 30 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Agree --Monkbel 06:19, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

Rename compu-fs-stub &
With only 35 articles, this stub type is clearly too limited in scope. However, by expanding the scope to computer strage in general, articles about file formats and the like would clearly be within the stub type and would help to clean up the over large compu-stub. Examining the first page of was enough to convince me that this change would bring the stub type over the 60 stub threshhold.

Thus I'm recommending a rename to compu-storage-stub &. Caerwine 19:53, 27 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Agree. --Monkbel 06:18, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Agree with scope expansion. --TheParanoidOne 06:40, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Agree but please do not delete &mdash;Claunia 02:31, 3 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Agree with scope expansion; we have a lot of file format stubs. --Alynna 23:23, 6 November 2005 (UTC)

EastEndersStub
Until a few minutes ago this was the template for stubs relating to the British soap opera EastEnders. It now redirects to the correctly-named but probably unnecessary EastEnders-stub. EastEndersStub should be deleted, since it is badly named - if the replacement isn't used on a few more articles, it could well end up here too, eventually. Grutness...  wha?  05:44, 29 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Go ahead and delete this malformed stub. We really ought to consider adding some speedys for malformed stubs such as this one, but it would help if we got our own house in order first. Caerwine 21:59, 29 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. --Monkbel 06:18, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete.--Pamri &bull; Talk &bull; [ Reply] 07:47, 4 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete this inconsistent redirect. --TheParanoidOne 10:50, 4 November 2005 (UTC)

sw-stub to starwars-stub or StarWars-stub
I think the abbreviation is too ambiguous. Aecis 20:02, 29 October 2005 (UTC)
 * If it is to be done, best that it be done to StarWars-stub, and as long as it's been proposed, go ahead and do it. Caerwine 21:59, 29 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Agree with Caerwine - move to StarWars-stub and get rid of the three latest films sw-stub. Grutness...  wha?  01:06, 30 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Disagree with proposed stub- we shouldn't encourage camel case-itis. Make it starwars-stub. --Maru  (talk) Contribs 03:15, 30 October 2005 (UTC)
 * What you call "Camel case" WP:WSS calls standard naming guidelines. Grutness...  wha?  08:32, 30 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Move to starwars-stub. --Monkbel 06:17, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
 * rename as StarWars-stub as the naming rules say BL   kiss the lizard  07:26, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Rename per Caerwine. New Progressive 18:23, 1 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Rename to StarWars-stub. --TheParanoidOne 10:50, 4 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Rename to StarWars-stub. feydey 13:41, 4 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Rename to StarWars-stub. Nationalparks 01:12, 7 November 2005 (UTC)

CAmerical-stub
The history indicates this was a mispelling for CAmerica-stub that was caught by the creator only after it was done. If at all possible, speedy it. Caerwine 23:41, 30 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. --Monkbel 06:15, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
 * I don't think I'll get in trouble for speedying a misspelt template... Grutness...  wha?  06:34, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

Tatarstan-hist-stub/
This one could easily be pruned. It's existed for a long time now (nearly seven months), and in that time it's been used on 14 articles. Unnecessary. Delete. 08:27, 30 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Agreed, this one is just too puny. Caerwine 19:21, 30 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. --Monkbel 06:14, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

Cambodia stub, Cambodia-stubs, Cambodia stubs (redirects)
All three are unused redirects of Cambodia-stub that don't follow the usual stub name conventions. Caerwine 19:04, 30 October 2005 (UTC)
 * delete espescially the ones with s on the end BL   kiss the lizard  23:29, 30 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Speedy Delete as unused. --Monkbel 06:15, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

Cuba Rev-stub (redirect)
unused redirect to Cuba-stub. Delete. Grutness...  wha?  08:27, 30 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete Even if we needed a stub type for the Cuban Revolution (which we don't at the moment), this ain't it. Caerwine 23:24, 30 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. --Monkbel 06:13, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

Stub need image
No category. Reads "This article is a stub because it needs an image". Yet the addition of an image doesn't turn a stub into a non-stub - stubs are usually judged on what is in the text. Pointless and used on a massive two articles since creation two months ago. Delete. Grutness...  wha?  08:27, 30 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete Poor name, and there are better ways to indicate that an article needs an image. Caerwine 23:24, 30 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. --Monkbel 06:13, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete, we have Reqimage (for use on the talkpage) and Requested pictures for this purpose. --Sherool 22:19, 3 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete - lack of image a stub does not make, and there's already a template for this. --Alynna 22:39, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

film director-stub to film-director-stub
We usually have either no space or a hyphen and since I'm currently proposing on the proposals page a director-stub, I'm going to propose a formal rename to include a hyphen between "film" and "director" here. Caerwine 05:08, 30 October 2005 (UTC)

I've created the new template and updated the category. &mdash; Fingers-of-Pyrex 12:56, 7 November 2005 (UTC)
 * agree with the change Tedernst 06:29, 30 October 2005 (UTC)
 * agree only if a robot can be employed to do the changes. The JPS 08:58, 30 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Not really sure why that would make a difference to your vote. Sure, a bot would be useful, but it's not like there are a lot of stubs to change, only about 350. Oh, and agree, BTW. Grutness...  wha?  09:34, 30 October 2005 (UTC)
 * 350 is a lot for a human editor, especially when it has no effect upon the end user. The time spent inserting hyphens could be more preductively spent actually improving the articles, and perhaps rescuing them from stub status. The JPS 09:23, 5 November 2005 (UTC)
 * It certainly can be done by bot; Mairibot has been doing the larger renames for the past week or so. --Mairi 05:13, 6 November 2005 (UTC)
 * agree needs a hyphen BL   kiss the lizard  23:29, 30 October 2005 (UTC)
 * rename --Monkbel 06:12, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
 * agree, stub names generally have no spaces. Engineer Bob 06:33, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Agree Makes sense--Occono 16:40, 3 November 2005 (UTC)
 * agree. I hope a bot can do the change. Alensha 12:30, 5 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Agree. Make the change as painless and transparent as possible please. User:Ours 20:11, nov 6 2005 (GMT+1)
 * And now I have Mairibot working on the renaming. --Mairi 18:20, 7 November 2005 (UTC)
 * I've further updated the category so that it now is a child of the new.
 * I've also come across (now that Mairibot has cleared things up) a template Film director that has only served as a redirect to the film director stub template. I've put an sfd-r notice on it, but hopefully it can just be deleted without a separate sfd. Caerwine 05:41, 8 November 2005 (UTC)
 * That's been deleted too now... --Mairi 05:54, 8 November 2005 (UTC)

Colombia-dep-stub (redirect)
the first of five from me from the new stub-berg (see WP:WSS/D) This one redirects to Colombia-geo-stub but is unnecessary. Delete. Grutness...  wha?  08:27, 30 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete I can't see how there could be 60 articles about Comobian departments, let alnoe stubs. Caerwine 23:24, 30 October 2005 (UTC)
 * delete dep sounds too much like depot too BL   kiss the lizard  23:29, 30 October 2005 (UTC)

Invert-stub (redirect)
redirect to Invertebrate-stub, but it's a pretty ambiguous name. Delete. Grutness...  wha?  08:27, 30 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete Too ambiguous. Caerwine 23:24, 30 October 2005 (UTC)
 * delete "this stub article is upside down" BL   kiss the lizard  23:29, 30 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete. --Monkbel 06:14, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

ma-stub &rarr; Martialarts-stub
Listed as part of the latest stub-berg not because it was unknown, but because it could do with a rename. ma-stub could be about any of dozens of things, and I doubt martial arts would be near the top of the list. Rename Grutness...  wha?  01:01, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Rename, as per. Alai 01:47, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Rename, but given our preference for singular forms, shouldn't that be martialart-stub ? Caerwine 02:46, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
 * good point - or how about just martial-stub? Grutness...  wha?  06:28, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
 * {martial-stub} would be too ambiguous as it could also refer to martial law or martial music. Caerwine 19:35, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Rename. --Monkbel 06:09, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Rename as proposed. &mdash; Instantnood 21:17, 2 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Rename to martialarts-stub. Conscious 12:53, 5 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Rename to martialart'-stub. Prefer singular but either is better than current Rorybowman 00:02 6 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Rename to martialart-stub or martialarts-stub. According to the American Heritage dictionary, martial arts can be singular (like mathematics) or plural (like sciences). This fact manifests itself in Wikipedia titles, for we have an article titled Martial art, while we have a project titled WikiProject Martial Arts. Personally, I would feel more comfortable using martial arts with a singular verb, but I have absolutely no experience in the field. (I bet there's been an emotionally charged edit war over this trivial grammatical paradox somewhere deep in the history pages of the martial arts articles.) --TantalumTelluride 06:14, 7 November 2005 (UTC)


 * Moved stub template to martialart-stub and revised category text, now all we need is to orphan the old stub. I wouldn't mind having martialarts-stub as redirect, but I haven't created it either. Caerwine 17:26, 8 November 2005 (UTC)


 * I'll have Mairibot do this one, once it finishes the cleanup it's currently doing. --Mairi 17:51, 8 November 2005 (UTC)

Hp-stub &rarr; HarryPotter-stub
Listed as part of the latest stub-berg not because it was unknown, but because it could do with a rename. In this case, not only could H be any of several things, but would Harry Potter naturally abbreviate to capitals anyway. Rename Grutness...  wha?  01:01, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Probably rename this one, though there's a Wikiproject that's doubtless about to upbraid us for this... Alai 01:47, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
 * I think the upbraiding would more likely be because the notice applied to the template implies that deletion is the preferred option, and makes no mention of renaming. —Phil | Talk 12:08, 7 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Rename. --Monkbel 06:09, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Rename would be fine. Less ambiguous. -- Lord Vold e  mort  <sup style="color:#3D9140;">(Dark Mark)  14:40, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Why do I feel uneasy hearing your views on what to do with Harry Potter? Grutness...  wha? 
 * Rename. When I first saw this, I thought it was about Hewlett-Packard stubs. Aecis 22:39, 1 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Rename. I read HP as Hewlett-Packard too. --Valentinian 22:15, 4 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Rename to avoid confusion with Hindu Princesses. --TantalumTelluride 06:19, 7 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Rename and get rid of that awful notice, or re-word it. Phil | Talk 12:08, 7 November 2005 (UTC)


 * Moved stub template and revised category text, now all we need to do is orphan the old stub. Caerwine 17:26, 8 November 2005 (UTC)

AusLawStub &rarr; Australia-law-stub
Listed as part of the latest stub-berg not because it was unknown, but because it could do with a rename. If we need this one, which is questionable in itself, then it could definitely do with a better name. Grutness...  wha?  01:01, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Strong rename by all that's name-conventional, delete redirect. Alai 01:47, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Rename. --Monkbel 06:10, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
 * rename BL   kiss the lizard  07:26, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
 * rename but keep - a useful category for Australians with 63 articles currently tagged. --A  Y  Arktos   (Talk) 18:46, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Rename. Yes, sorry everyone, created this a long time ago, before I knew about stub naming. But definitely keep it, it is a useful and well used stub. --bainer (talk) 22:20, 1 November 2005 (UTC)
 * No worries - it was created before we formularised the naming of stub templates. And yeah, it definitely looks like a keeper, but at a new name. Grutness...  wha?  05:28, 5 November 2005 (UTC)


 * Moved stub template and revised category text, now all we need to do is orphan the old stub. Caerwine 17:26, 8 November 2005 (UTC)

AU-politician-stub
For some reason Australia-politician-stub redirects to Australia-bio-stub. Something needs to be done here... preferably moving AU-politician-stub to Australia-politician-stub and deleting the original AU name. Grutness...  wha?  01:01, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Speedy fix-up, might as well leave AU- as a redirect, though. Alai 01:47, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Delete and fix the only using article to use -bio-stub. --Monkbel 06:11, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
 * erm... AU-politician-stub is used by about 150 articles. Grutness...  wha?  06:29, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Question - are you sure? Clicking on what links here shows only Alan Eggleston using Australia-politician-stub.  All the other articles seem to be using Australia-bio-stub. -- Ian &equiv; talk 12:52, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Only one uses Australia-politician-stub. 150 use AU-politician-stub. --Scott Davis Talk 13:50, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
 * I see it now, rename -- Ian &equiv; talk 13:59, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Sorry, I see it too. Rename --Monkbel 07:04, 2 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep as is, or (second choice) move to Australia-politician-stub. The redirect is an obvious error. Ambi 06:53, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep as is, please. I'm too lazy to write Australia-poli....whatever. :)--Cyberjunkie | Talk 07:03, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
 * erm... you have read the stub naming guidelines, right? Grutness...  wha?  07:15, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Sigh...fine, rename.--Cyberjunkie | Talk 12:57, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
 * rename and delete the old name BL   kiss the lizard  07:26, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
 * rename as proposed. --Scott Davis Talk 13:50, 31 October 2005 (UTC)


 * rename as proposed. We only need one stub for Australian politicians.--Dalziel 86 14:04, 31 October 2005 (UTC)


 * agree only one stub tag required for Australian politicians and it should be named in accordance with naming conventions, the redundant tag should be deleted.--A Y  Arktos   (Talk) 18:50, 31 October 2005 (UTC)


 * rename per A Y  Arktos. Snottygobble | Talk 01:15, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

CAM-stub (rename)
Listed as part of the latest stub-berg not because it was unknown, but because it could do with a rename. Alt-medicine-stub would work for me, though it does use an abbreviation. Even so, it would be far more obvious than it is with the current name. Grutness...  wha?  01:01, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Rename to whatever yer havin' yersel'. Could live with almost anything slightly less cryptic (say, two or more actual syllables).  AltMed-, CompMed-, CompAltMed-, further expansions thereof...  Provided that it ends in -stub, that is.  Alai 01:47, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
 * We've been using med as abbreviation for medicine/-al so for consistency the rename should use that. Either alternative-med-stub or alt-med-stub works for me. Caerwine 02:54, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
 * alt-med-stub sounds fine to me - I think "alt" is a widely enough known term, and it gets around the alternative/alternate problem. Grutness...  wha?  04:55, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Rename. I came looking at this because CAM is a photosynthetic pathway in drought-tolerant plants. I have no idea what it's supposed to stand for in a medical context.  Renaming would therefore help identify the category better. -- EncycloPetey 15:58, 6 November 2005 (UTC)