Wikipedia:Suspected sock puppets/Copperchair (4th)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the case of suspected sockpuppetry. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page. All edits should go to the talk page of this case. If you are seeing this page as a result of an attempt to open a new case of sockpuppetry of the same user, read this for detailed instructions.

User:Copperchair

 * Evidence

Copperchair/Esaborio/Varese Sarabande and his various IPs are back. He doesn't even try to hide it; as he keeps going back to the same articles to edit after he is banned.

See also: Suspected sock puppets/Copperchair, Suspected sock puppets/Copperchair (2nd), Suspected sock puppets/Copperchair (3rd)

PBP 14:16, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

I don't know what PBP is talking about. SPECTRE 16:51, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Comments

On the one hand, the account was created very soon after Varese Sarabande was banned, he has edited the same variety of articles as the above socks, and he is making a lot of the same edits (dropping "Cold War" from the World War III article, removing mentions of the Iraq War as being part of the War on Terrorism, updating casualty counts on War on Terrorism pages). He shares the above socks' misunderstanding of the definition of "hypothetical." He also doesn't seem to have the editing pattern of a newbie; he's been editing a lot, using edit summaries, and making edits to templates and talk pages. That seems like the mark of an experienced editor. On the other hand, his attitude seems somewhat different from the other socks. I would consider it likely that SPECTRE is another sock of Copperchair, attempting to act a little different so that he's not caught and banned so quickly. What, exactly, can be done about this situation? Right after Copperchair's latest sock is banned, he creates a new account. It's a real problem, and simply banning the individual accounts doesn't seem to cut it, especially since he seems to be trying to learn to evade detection. TomTheHand 19:22, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

He seems to be trying to hide his edits. For example, here he acts like he's reformatting Template:War on Terrorism to look more like the World War templates, but he actually removes the Iraq War. If this is Copperchair he's gotten far more sneaky. He does it again here, never mentioning that he's removing the Iraq War, only acting like he's reformatting the template. Here he acts like he agrees with me about removing the word "future" from the opening sentence ("World War Three is a term used to describe a hypothetical [future] conflict on the scale of World War II or larger."). However, he states that this is because it could be a current conflict (the War on Terrorism) and shows the same misunderstanding of the meaning of the word "hypothetical," then goes on to remove the Cold War template, Copperchair's other favorite edit. TomTheHand 19:39, 7 August 2006 (UTC)


 * I'm adding User:Larry Lawrence to this request. Based on the user's edit history they were created on June 26 and immediately started making similar edits to the pages Copperchair/Esaborio/Varese Sarabande made. --Bobblehead 19:45, 7 August 2006 (UTC)


 * The only similarity I really see is removing War on Terrorism from the Iraq War page, and he's been doing it since well before Esaborio was banned. I sort of look at Copperchair as someone who refuses to obey his ban and works to circumvent it, not really as a puppetmaster. TomTheHand 19:50, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Hmmm. Could be true. Perhaps it was just the odd timing of Larry's return right after Varese Sarabande got banned that triggered the connection. Just seems odd that since the account was created aside from a few edits the account's contribution has been to push the same POV as Esaborio. Perhaps WP:RFCU would be a better place for me to go. --Bobblehead 20:22, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
 * I think that a CheckUser comparing Larry and Spectre to Esaborio and Varese Sarabande would be a great idea. I requested a CheckUser for Esaborio to Copperchair, but Copperchair's edits are too old.  Esaborio and Varese should be plenty new enough. TomTheHand 20:31, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Looks like Spectre already got banned, but I did file a request for Larry. Just added Spectre to the list of accounts Copperchair has been banned for.

Would it be possible for an admin to add Spectre, Varese Sarabande, and 190.10.0.36 to Requests for arbitration/Copperchair so all of this is documented in one place? TomTheHand 21:01, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

Also, is there a way to prevent him from simply registering another user name and returning to his routine? TomTheHand 21:11, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

Copperchair has another sockpuppet, User:Tony Camonte, making the exact same edits. I'm posting here even though User:SPECTRE is already banned because I don't want to keep clogging up the place with more cases and this one was still open. Can something be done to keep him from just registering a new name every day? Blocking/banning seems to be pretty much entirely ineffective. TomTheHand 19:47, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Here are some specifics: I think that should be sufficient evidence. Tony has now been blocked, but again, a long-term solution would be really helpful. TomTheHand 20:41, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
 * 1) Tony Camonte makes Copperchair's favorite edit to World War III here. This is done by 190.10.0.36 here and here, by SPECTRE and 190.10.0.36 working together here, by Varese here, here, and here, by 201.199.77.202 here and here, and by Esaborio here and here among many others.
 * 2) Tony reverts Template:War on Terrorism to SPECTRE's last version here. SPECTRE, in turn, was reverting the article to 190.10.0.36's version (First example here).  190.10.0.36 was reverting to Varese's last version here and essentially Esaborio's last version here.
 * 3) Compare Tony's edit to War on Terrorism here to Spectre's here, 190.10.0.36's here, Varese's here, and Esaborio's here.
 * 4) Compare Tony's edit to War on Terrorism: Allies here with SPECTRE here, 190.10.0.36 here, and Varese here. The page was created after Esaborio's ban, so no comparisons are available to him.
 * 5) Compare Tony's edit to War on Terrorism - Theaters of operation here with 190.10.0.36's here, Varese's here, and Esaborio's here.
 * Well... there are currently two RFCU up at the page. All we can do is wait and see if they are related or the same. Only Larry remains not blocked. Iola k ana |T  12:33, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
 * I have added and listen all the block on the arbitration page. Iola k ana |T  12:40, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

I'd also like to provide a couple of diffs comparing Esaborio to Copperchair. Some evidence is already available at Suspected sock puppets/Copperchair, but more couldn't hurt. Note that Esaborio was undetected for four and a half months, so while it's possible to connect Esaborio with Copperchair by comparing Copperchair's last edits with Esaborio's first ones, it's difficult/impossible to connect Copperchair directly to the rest of the socks because they were created so long after Copperchair's ban. I feel the need to provide this because Esaborio and the socks have always denied being Copperchair. By comparison, Esaborio admitted to being 201.199.77.202 and Varese Sarabande actually signed his posts as "Esaborio." The later socks no longer openly admit to being Esaborio, and attempt to hide their edits, but because they make the exact same edits I think the connection is obvious. I believe the most obvious evidence of the Esaborio/Copperchair connection is where Esaborio copies Copperchair's user page here; he makes some changes to the content in the middle, but it begins and ends the same and actually still links to Copperchair's talk page. I find it hard to believe that Esaborio would come upon a user's page three months after that user is banned and decide to copy it. TomTheHand 14:47, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
 * 1) Copperchair's final edits before his ban were updating IMDB rankings on Star Wars Episode VI: Return of the Jedi here and here; Esaborio's first edits four days later is to do the exact same thing here and here.
 * 2) Compare Copperchair's last edit to War on Terrorism here with Esaborio's first edit here; they are separated by five months but are strikingly similar.
 * Why are we still discussing Esaborio here? The user has been blocked. Iola k ana |T  18:29, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
 * I was attempting to tie all of the users together. Sometimes the socks have admitted to being each other, but they're always denied that they are Copperchair; I thought it would be a good idea to put together a little bit more evidence that they are Copperchair, and the only way to do that is through Esaborio. TomTheHand 18:34, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
 * At this point Esaborio has already blocked and banned as a sockpuppet of Copperchair, so the tying has already been done. The user has not done anything beyond claiming in edit summaries and on Verese's talk page that they are not Copperchair and has not attempted to appeal the ruling that Esaborio is a sockpuppet. So building up evidence against Esaborio is kind of like trying to prove that a guy already in prison is guilty. :) If you want to build up evidence just in case they appeal their ties to Copperchair, you could do so in your user space? On the other hand, by not appealing the ban and instead creating multiple sockpuppets to continue their disruption they've violated Wikipolicy and are subject to being blocked even if they aren't Copperchair.. Kind of like breaking into houses to prove that you haven't broken into any houses. --Bobblehead 19:01, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
 * You're right. I apologize. TomTheHand 20:48, 9 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Is there any solution that can possibly work to stop this user from continually making new accounts? ~ Rangeley ( talk ) 18:08, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

I think we may have another sock puppet,, note the very similar form in edit comments, even down to the misuse of the comma as a period. ~ Rangeley ( talk ) 20:31, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
 * The above user does look like a sock puppet of Larry Lawrence, but not of Copperchair. TomTheHand 20:48, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
 * I've gone and struckthrough Larry. I don't think he's a puppet of Copperchair, but rather a puppetmaster. I've also created a suspected sock puppet report for Larry Lawrence --Bobblehead 21:03, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

I am just going to close this now, as the user have been blocked. There is a current, more active, SSP about Larry near the top of thew SSP page (as of today). No further edits should be made to this page. Iola k ana |T 12:02, 12 August 2006 (UTC)