Wikipedia:Suspected sock puppets/Eliko

User:Eliko

 * Suspected sockpuppeteer

- Blocked - Blocked - Blocked
 * Suspected sockpuppets

— Andrwsc (talk · contribs) 21:46, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Report submission by

All four puppets have edited almost exclusively on a small number of articles (List of countries by Human Development Index‎, Developed country‎, and List of countries by GDP (PPP) per capita‎), which are articles that Eliko has also edited extensively on.
 * Evidence

Manstorius was created on June 1 and immediately began participating in an edit war on List of countries by Human Development Index that Eliko had been involved in (Eliko:, Manstorius: ). Eliko's edit summary indicated that he was aware of 3RR, so I suspect Manstorius was created to avoid that. Interestingly, Manstorius tried to create the appearance of an editor trying to find a compromise between Eliko and the other editors, a pattern which would show up again later.

All four puppets were involved in an edit war on the Developed country article on June 24 in a span of less than four hours, presumably to avoid 3RR limits: About four hours later, Ostiferia made his second revert, and a few hours after that, Eliko made an actual change to the article which Manstorius later reverted back to twice that day.
 * 1) Eliko reverts to his own preferred edit
 * 2) Manstorius reverts to Eliko
 * 3) Manstorius reverts again
 * 4) Manstorius third revert
 * 5) Partigenary‎ created
 * 6) Partigenary‎ first revert
 * 7) Partigenary‎ second revert
 * 8) SSnormal created
 * 9) SSnormal first revert
 * 10) SSnormal second revert
 * 11) SSnormal third revert
 * 12) Partigenary‎ third revert
 * 13) Ostiferia created
 * 14) Ostiferia first revert

In another incident, Ostiferia was reported to for edit warring on List of countries by Human Development Index. Very troublesome is this edit to WP:AN/3RR, where Manstorius shows up to offer the "compromise position", but also to defend Ostiferia by claiming that his reverts of multiple editors is justified because the opposing editor was also reverting multiple different editors, namely Ostiferia and SSnormal. This diff is very interesting, as Manstorius gets himself and SSnormal confused with each other in his WP:AN/3RR message! The pattern of edits starting November 29 is also interesting, as Manstorius usually shows up 3-4 minutes after an Ostiferia/SSnormal/Eliko edit, tweaking it towards a "compromise". Manstorius has also edited on Ostiferia's talk page to create the illusion of multiple editors. This "good hand"/"bad hand" operation of Manstorius seems to be used as a way of partially achieving Eliko's goals.

All five users share a similar style with respect to edit summaries, often using "." as the complete summary and talk page comments, with an excessive use of bold text (Eliko, from my talk page ; SSnormal, from my talk page ; Partigenary ).

Most damaging of all is this edit, where Manstorius claims responsibility for all sockpuppets except Eliko. Based on that admission, I have just blocked Ostiferia, Partigenary, and SSnormal.

However, the issue at hand today, is that Eliko in currently in the middle of an edit war with User:CieloEstrellado on List of countries by GDP (PPP) per capita. Yesterday, I protected the page as each of these two editors had been making blind reverts to the list, even after I had warned them both. A discussion ensued on my talk page and the three of us reached an agreement that if I unprotected the page again, the two of them would work on a consensus on a sandbox page and stop the disruption on the mainspace article. The terms of this agreement included a promise that I would block either of them if they edited the main article before that consensus was reached on the sandbox version. After that agreement, SSnormal made an edit to the article, so if it is determined that Eliko is the same as Manstorius/SSnormal/Ostiferia/Partigenary‎, they should all be blocked. I would like another admin to review this and issue any blocks as I am now somewhat involved.

To summarize: SSnormal, Ostiferia, and Partigenary‎ have edited along the same lines as Eliko, whereas Manstorius, at first glance, appears to edit differently. However, Manstorius has admitted to being the puppet master for SSnormal, Ostiferia, and Partigenary‎. Evidence shows that the lot of them operate to avoid 3RR that a single user would (although Ostiferia got reported once), and to avoid blocking. I seek to establish the link between Eliko and Manstorius et. al.


 * Comments

Eliko's testimony:


 * I've agreed to avoid editing the article List of countries by GDP (PPP) per capita, and I've been obeying the agreement as far.
 * I've no connection to any of the users whose versions follow my last version in that article: neither Andrwsc, nor Kekrops, SSnormal, Anrafifi264, Laurens-af, Zaindi87, Nikepatch.
 * Nor do I have any connection to Manstorius, nor to any of his sock puppets: SSnormal, Ostiferia, Pertigenary.
 * Really, I've been using bold letters as well as a single dot (the parentheses are not mine but rather are Wikipedia's), and Manstorius, too, (incl. his sock puppets) has; but Wikipedia is full of such a style usage, and I learnt this style from many other users, not from Manstorius (nor from his sock pupptes). I don't know where Manstorius learnt this style from: maybe from me (note that we edited common articles), maybe from all of the many other users - as I did, but as far as I'm concerned - I know one simple fact: I've never had any connection to him nor to any of his sock puppets.

Eliko (talk) 20:20, 19 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Having read carefully all of your evidence, I - too - made an investigation (upon your investigation), but before I present here what I've found out - let me say that I'm quite disappointed with the incosistent way you've treated the whole issue: you've blocked SSnormal et al., but you haven't blocked me - nor Manstorius, why? You should decide whether you believe that guy (Manstorius): if you do, i.e. you believe Manstorius's personal testimony about his personal link with SSnormal et al., thus turning your suspicion against SSnormal et al. into a proved suspicion - i.e. into your resolution to block SSnormal et al., then you - as an consistent person - should have also believed Manstorius's personal testimony about me, thus turning your suspicion against me into a refuted suspicion and turning the following fact (below in section no. 1) into a proof for my innocence, i.e. into a resolution stating that Eliko and Manstorius are two different persons. However, you decided, on one hand, to adopt that part of Manstorius's personal testimony which enabled you to block SSnormal et al., but - on the other hand - to ignore the other part (of Manstorius's personal testimony) which could enable you to declare that Eliko is innocent. To sum up: I'm very disappointed with the inconsistent way you've treated the whole issue.
 * Now, let me present the results of my investigation: You've indicated two articles: List of countries by Human Development Index, and Developed country, which made you think that I am Manstorius (and/or his sock puppets). I've checked them out, and I've found out - as follows:
 * 1) List of countries by Human Development Index: Really, Manstorius's user page was created while I was involved in a controversy some months ago (in the article: List of countries by Human Development Index). However, as opposed to what you've indicated, Manstorius's first contributions were for another article in which I was not involved, and even when he later contributed to the article List of countries by Human Development Index in which I was involved - Manstorius had never reverted to my version - but rather had a definitely different position than mine! ! As you can see, my version proposed the value 0.919, while Manstorius's version proposed the number 0.922 (which I rejected - as you can see here), while other users proposed other numbers, e.g. Kardrak (here) - who proposed the number: 0.905 (note that I and Kardrak are two different persons and I'm ready to prove that if you just ask me to). I consider that as a clear proof for Manstorius's being a different person than me (even when assuming that you inconsistently avoid believing Manstorius's direct personal testimony about me).
 * 2) Developed country: Really, in my second controversy three weeks later (in the article Developed country), some users had the same position as mine: Manstorius (and/or his sock puppets) was one of them, but he was not the only one: Also Andrew pmk had the same position - which made Andrew pmk revert back to the same version, as you can see here, and also Mike Rosoft (being an administrator) had that position - which made Mike Rosoft revert back to my version, as you can see here. Note that neither Mike Rosoft nor Andrew pmk is Eliko, and I'm ready to prove that if you just ask me to! Furthermore, when Manstorius reverted in that article (Developed country) - he claimed (in the summary edit) to have reverted to "Mike Rosoft's version", although they are (probably) two different persons (and I'll try to prove that if you just ask me to), so if you're consistent - you should have declared that in the same way as Manstorius's revert to "Mike Rosoft's version" is by no means an evidence about Mike Rosoft's identity, so Manstorius's revert to my version is by no means an evidence about Eliko's identity! Furthermore, if you were consistent then you should have declared that in the same way as neither Mike Rosoft nor Andrew pmk is Eliko (and I'm ready to prove that if you just ask me to) - despite their having shared the same position as Eliko's in that controversy (and despite their having reverted back to Eliko's version), so Manstorius can be another person - despite his having shared the same position shared by the other three! Furthermore: I've found out that when Manstorius reverted back to Mike Rosoft's version (being the same version as mine), I had had just two reverts in the past 24 hours, so if I had really wanted to revert - I could have done that without "Manstorius's help"! But even if I had had three reverts - it would just have proved that I obey the 3RR, nothing else! I shouldn't be blamed for other users' help!
 * However, you are absolutely correct: I and Manstorius have been using bold letters and a single dot; in the same way as many other legitimate users have. I don't know where Manstorius learnt this style from: maybe from me (note that we edited common articles), maybe from all of the many other users - as I did, but as far as I'm concerned - I know one simple fact: I've never had any connection to him nor to any of his sock puppets.

This case looks pretty convincing, the diffs provided are excellent and do show the majority of comparisons between the five (three of which have been subsequently blocked). I am however, referring the case to checkuser to investigate further. Hopefully this may enlighten this a little further and may also help with the MEDCAB case currently open. Rudget (?) 18:58, 7 March 2008 (UTC)
 * What "convinces" you? Since the beginning (see secion no. 2 above) - I've admitted that the diffs (in the article Developed country) are really identical, i.e. Manstorius really reverted back to the same version; However, also other users reverted back to the same version! e.g. Andrew pmk reverted back to the same version, as you can see here, and also Mike Rosoft (being an administrator) reverted back to my version, as you can see here, so why did you ignore those diffs? Note that neither Mike Rosoft nor Andrew pmk is Eliko, and I'm ready to prove that if you just ask me to! Furthermore, when Manstorius reverted in that article (Developed country) - he claimed (in the summary edit) to have reverted to "Mike Rosoft's version", although they are (probably) two different persons (and I'll try to prove that if you just ask me to), so if you're consistent - you should have declared that in the same way as Manstorius's revert to "Mike Rosoft's version" is by no means a "convincing case" about Mike Rosoft's identity, so Manstorius's revert to my version is by no means an "convincing case" about Eliko's identity! Furthermore, if you were consistent then you should have declared that in the same way as neither Mike Rosoft nor Andrew pmk is Eliko (and I'm ready to prove that if you just ask me to) - despite their having shared the same position as Eliko's in that controversy (and despite their having reverted back to Eliko's version), so Manstorius can be another person - despite his having shared the same position shared by the other three!
 * Why did you ignore the clear proof (in secion no. 2 above) for Mansorius's being a different person than me?
 * The MEDCAB case is not about individuals, but rather about the more correct version which should be used by Wikipedia. To sum up: no connection between The MEDCAB case (dealing with a topic) and the current case (dealing with individuals).
 * Eliko (talk) 18:11, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

Only the two main accounts, Eliko and Manstorius, are not blocked and Manstorius has not edited in almost a month. As there is room for doubt, let's watch and see what happens. — Rlevse  •  Talk  • 16:39, 9 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Conclusions