Wikipedia:Suspected sock puppets/Griot


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the case of suspected sockpuppetry. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page. All edits should go to the talk page of this case. If you are seeing this page as a result of an attempt to open a new case of sockpuppetry of the same user, read this for detailed instructions.

User:Griot

 * Suspected sockpuppeteer


 * Suspected sockpuppets

Otheus 09:33, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Report submission by

I find the possibility extremely remote that these users are not the same person, barring an exceptional explanation.
 * Evidence

''Note 1: Timestamps are in GMT. Both users known to be from San Francisco area, so subtract 9 hours pre DST.''

Note co-incidents of edit-times: non-overlapping, highly correlated. Note span of articles is quite great, but often cover similar arenas, and on average once every other day, the same articles. This could be two persons using the same computer, and Griot simply logs off, letting another log on and use the computer for a while. Given that these are presumably roommates or workmates, and share a computer, it is unsurprising that they would have similar interests. However, these editing trail indicates there is rarely independent usage -- when one posts, nearly always within an hour or less, the other posts. And while contra-cases can be found, it was generally not the rule.

But again note, Griot started using wikipedia in 2005. The new IP user began using it on Feb 1 2007. Beginning-of-the-month date is important, but doesn't lend support either way (it could be a new roommate, or it could be a new ISP).
 * {| border=1

And so on.
 * Event
 * 71.139.27.85
 * Griot
 * 1st post
 * 18:57, 1 February 2007
 * 2005
 * Feb 1 (Aaron Peskin)
 * 18:57 to 19:41
 * 01:30 to 01:39
 * Feb 2 (Michael X)
 * 22:27 to 22:33
 * 17:54 to 21:50
 * Feb 4
 * 03:32 to 03:33 (Democrat Party (phrase))
 * 03:36 (Democratic Party (United States))
 * Feb 4
 * 21:54 to 22:14
 * 21:38 to 21:52 and 22:54 to 23:30
 * Feb 5
 * (none)
 * 04:15 to 04:58
 * Feb 6
 * 01:55 to 01:58
 * 02:03 to 02:05
 * many more examples
 * Feb 10
 * 16:52
 * 16:56 to 20:53
 * Feb 11 (Gavin Newsome)
 * 05:32
 * 21:03 to 21:30
 * Feb 14 (Gavin Newsome)
 * 03:59 to 04:01
 * 05:29 to 05:56
 * }
 * Feb 10
 * 16:52
 * 16:56 to 20:53
 * Feb 11 (Gavin Newsome)
 * 05:32
 * 21:03 to 21:30
 * Feb 14 (Gavin Newsome)
 * 03:59 to 04:01
 * 05:29 to 05:56
 * }
 * 05:29 to 05:56
 * }

The level of coincidence here is amazing. Either these are the same people, or there is one computer and two people who have identical schedules and highly overlapping interests. Note, both users are highly active and cover many more articles. It's very difficult "by hand" to see if there is a strong overlap in article incidence.

Now starting with the Ralph Nader article wars, we have:
 * {| border=1

plus 2 posts to 76.166 talk page and 16:49 -- unrelated post 22:36 to 22:53 rv RN, RN:Talk 20:16 (Aaron Peskin) So, clearly on March 11 and 12, there were 3RR violations. However, it is possible these were "good faith" reverts and not tendentious.
 * Event
 * 71.139.27.85
 * 
 * 1st Ralph Nader post
 * Mar 8 16:26
 * Feb 27 or before
 * Mar 7
 * 22:52 - 23:46 (variety of posts, not Nader related)
 * 19:16 - rv 19:18 posts on 76.166.123.129 talk page
 * Mar 8
 * 16:26 - 16:32 2 edits to Nader article
 * 16:06 - 16:17 one rv, plus 2 posts to RN Talk page,
 * Mar 8
 * 16:26 - 16:32 2 edits to Nader article
 * 16:06 - 16:17 one rv, plus 2 posts to RN Talk page,
 * 16:06 - 16:17 one rv, plus 2 posts to RN Talk page,
 * Mar 9
 * 06:26 to 06:28 1 each to RN, RN:Talk
 * 02:05 to 02:12 several posts to RN:Talk, 1 to RN
 * Mar 11
 * 00:00 to 00:11 2 rv RN, 2 edits total and
 * Mar 11
 * 00:00 to 00:11 2 rv RN, 2 edits total and
 * 15:26 to 18:00 and
 * Mar 12
 * 05:06 to 05:18 rv RN, 4 edits total
 * 01:48 to 02:22 rv RN, 2 edits total, 1 RN:Talk
 * }
 * }

My prior filing against Telogen was in response to one of the suspected puppets complaint about User:Griot. Initially, I saw that Griot and suspected puppet (71.139.27.85) edited quite a wide range of articles, and that Griot's editing went back to 2005. So my initial suspicion was that Griot was acting in good faith. Further, before I filed against Telogen, Griot began deleting (his) User page material and announced he was leaving, so I decided the point was moot. But then, after I filed against Telogen, this diff appeared on Telogen's talk page (and other alleged puppets talk pages), prompting me to look into this further.
 * Comments

If these prove to be puppeteers, I suggest that, since Griot has allegedly left, block that user. Further more, ban the IP user from editing the Ralph Nader article.

Submitted respectfully and in good faith,
 * --Otheus 09:33, 14 March 2007 (UTC)


 * I'd like to add to Otheus' comments. I've been visiting the Nader page periodically. There seem to be a lot of new WP users contributing to it, and like User 71.139.27.85 (and Dragon Man and Mikesmash and some others), they all seem to know a lot more about WP policy than most first-timers or beginners would, too much to be believable to me. It supports the SP theory. One is a known repeat vandal who's never touched the article before, and this user is outright belligerent. When these user/s contribute to other articles, they're either highly political in nature, and then the edits are very detailed, or the articles are totally random, too random, and these edits are extremely minor, almost insignificant. Their comments have an angry bite. It seems contrived, like the user/s understand/s so well what a WP SP would look, and maybe has been doing it for awhile, so user knows how "not" to appear like one. Those are my observations. Thanks. Telogen 08:20, 17 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Conclusions

Inconclusive but possible both as to whether these are the same editor, and whether WP:SOCK was broken if so. Seraphimblade Talk to me 10:31, 29 March 2007 (UTC)