Wikipedia:Suspected sock puppets/I m dude2002


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the case of suspected sockpuppetry. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page. All edits should go to the talk page of this case. If you are seeing this page as a result of an attempt to open a new case of sockpuppetry of the same user, read this for detailed instructions.

User:I m dude2002

 * Suspected sockpuppeteer


 * Suspected sockpuppets

— George Saliba[ talk ] 21:14, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Report submission by


 * Evidence
 * Their edits almost never overlap temporally, but often line up sequentially (by as little as 3 minutes between the last edit of one, and the first edit of the other). This means that they don't ever appear to edit at the same time - one stops editting, then the other starts.
 * LimerickLimerickson appears to predominantly join into discussions that I m dude2002 is already involved in, and seems to always agree with I m dude2002's position. This wouldn't be so unusual if not for the very few edits that LimerickLimerickson has.
 * LimerickLimerickson's short edit history can be view here. The following diffs cover all of LimerickLimerickson's edit history, and the sections of I m dude2002's edit history that overlaps.
 * My primary contention is that I m dude2002 may be using the LimerickLimerickson sock puppet to try to build false consensus with himself in discussions and RfCs.

March 27, 2007'' – LimerickLimerickson makes no edits for four days, and neither does I m dude2002. Then, they both make edits to the same article 3 minutes apart. Four days of inactivity, followed by a three minute gap in their edits, to the same article. These are the only edits either editor makes for the next 16+ hours.''

03:33 (I m dude2002): 2006 Israel-Lebanon conflict (←Undid revision 118147980 by 24.16.63.33 (talk)) 03:30 (LimerickLimerickson): Talk:2006 Israel-Lebanon conflict (→Request for Comment: How to Define the Israeli Cabinet's Decision of July 12, 2006)

March 23, 2007'' – LimerickLimerickson joins an RfC I m dude2002 has started. LimerickLimerickson makes no edits after 14:34 on this day, and I m dude2002 makes no edits before 14:43 - a 9 minute difference between when one stops and the other starts.''

15:31 (I m dude2002): 2006 Israel-Lebanon conflict (→Position of Lebanon) 15:29 (I m dude2002): 2006 Israel-Lebanon conflict (→Beginning of conflict) 14:43 (I m dude2002): Arab-Israeli conflict (→2000-present - 7 --> seven) 14:34 (LimerickLimerickson): Palestine Liberation Organization (Grammatical correction, deletion of dead & commented link.) 14:29 (LimerickLimerickson): Talk:2006 Israel-Lebanon conflict (→Request for Comment: How to Define the Israeli Cabinet's Decision of July 12, 2006) 14:26 (LimerickLimerickson): 2006 Israel-Lebanon conflict (→Background)

February 26, 2007 – LimerickLimerickson decides on a concensus by no one replying to I m dude2002's suggested edits from the previous day.

21:50 (LimerickLimerickson): War of Attrition (→Timeline) 21:50 (LimerickLimerickson): War of Attrition (→Jordan and the PLO) 21:48 (LimerickLimerickson): Arab-Israeli conflict (→History of the conflict) 21:22 (LimerickLimerickson): Talk:Arab-Israeli conflict (→Concensus)

February 25, 2007 – I m dude2002 is discussing in the same sections as LimerickLimerickson yet again.

16:56 (I m dude2002): Talk:Arab-Israeli conflict (→2000-) 16:36 (I m dude2002): Talk:Arab-Israeli conflict (→1974-2000) 16:18 (I m dude2002): Talk:Arab-Israeli conflict (→Lebanon) 16:17 (I m dude2002): Talk:Arab-Israeli conflict (→1974-2000) 15:48 (I m dude2002): Talk:Arab-Israeli conflict (→1949-June 11, 1967) 15:40 (I m dude2002): Talk:Arab-Israeli conflict (→Beginning-1948)

February 21, 2007 – LimerickLimerickson is discussing in the same sections as I m dude2002 again.

13:11 (LimerickLimerickson): Talk:Arab-Israeli conflict (→June 12, 1967-1973) 13:08 (LimerickLimerickson): Talk:Arab-Israeli conflict (→1949-June 11, 1967) 02:38 (I m dude2002): Talk:Arab-Israeli conflict (→June 12, 1967-1973) 01:45 (I m dude2002): Talk:Arab-Israeli conflict (→1949-June 11, 1967) 00:08 (I m dude2002): Talk:Arab-Israeli conflict (→1949-June 11, 1967)

February 20, 2007 – LimerickLimerickson is discussing in the same sections as I m dude2002.

20:21 (I m dude2002): Talk:Arab-Israeli conflict (→1949-June 11, 1967) 20:20 (I m dude2002): Talk:Arab-Israeli conflict (→1949-June 11, 1967) 19:08 (I m dude2002): Talk:Arab-Israeli conflict (→June 12, 1967-1973) 18:59 (I m dude2002): Arab-Israeli conflict (→History of the conflict) 18:57 (I m dude2002): Arab-Israeli conflict 18:55 (I m dude2002): Arab-Israeli conflict 17:12 (LimerickLimerickson): Talk:Arab-Israeli conflict (→June 12, 1967-1973) 17:12 (LimerickLimerickson): Talk:Arab-Israeli conflict (→June 12, 1967-1973) 17:12 (LimerickLimerickson): Talk:Arab-Israeli conflict (→1968-1973) 16:54 (LimerickLimerickson): Talk:Arab-Israeli conflict (→1949-1967) 16:43 (LimerickLimerickson): Talk:Arab-Israeli conflict (→Beginning-1948)

February 13, 2007

18:10 (LimerickLimerickson): Talk:Lebanon (→Request for Comment: Parties to the "Open War") 18:01 (LimerickLimerickson): Talk:Lebanon (→Request for Comment: Parties to the "Open War")

February 12, 2007'' – These are LimerickLimerickson's first edits, joining an RfC on Talk:Lebanon that I m dude2002 is involved in. His first edit seems advanced for a brand new user.''

21:31 (LimerickLimerickson): Talk:Lebanon (→Request for Comment: Parties to the "Open War") 20:46 (LimerickLimerickson): Talk:Lebanon (→Request for Comment: Parties to the "Open War")

February 11, 2007

16:35 (I m dude2002): Talk:Lebanon (Request for Comment: Parties to the "Open War") 16:33 (I m dude2002): Talk:Lebanon 16:30 (I m dude2002): Talk:Lebanon (Request for Comment: Parties to the "Open War") 16:13 (I m dude2002): Talk:Lebanon (→"Open War") 16:08 (I m dude2002): Lebanon (→Major events - Reverted this part of the editting without reverting the entire edit. I really like the rest of the edit.) 06:30 (I m dude2002): Talk:Lebanon (→"Open War") 06:17 (I m dude2002): Talk:Lebanon (→"Open War")

I appreciate George Saliba's desire to arrive at the truth of matters and get to the bottom of things. Unfortunately, however, his good intentions turned into him not assuming good faith. I will certainly admit that the record of editing that Limerick and I have is somewhat odd. But this is not the product of sock puppetting. We are both part of an organization dedicated to better education regarding the Middle East. Specifically, we are both part part of the same department: the Israel department. Big brother is always watching is our third colleague. We often work off of the same computer at the same time, when we meet to discuss matters and research new information. This is why we often have to take turns within short intervals of time. Recently, I turned Limerick's and Big brother's attention to Wikipedia. I've made it a personal project, and they have joined more recently, and comment less frequently. But they certainly are their own independently thinking people. Limerick was very upset today, and told me to look at Wikipedia. When I did this I noticed that I had been accused of sock puppetting. Afford me two rhetorical questions: Do our edit records seem odd? Yes. Are they malicious? No. The reason they seem odd is precisely because we are dedicated to better public information about the Middle East, not because we are against it. I am highly disappointed in George Saliba. I thought he was a very well-mannered man whose primary goal in editing was to make Wikipedia more accurate and objective. I may have been wrong. A fair word of warning to anyone reading: disagree with George Saliba at your own risk. I m dude2002 01:42, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
 * In my defense
 * Allow me to clarify the above comment, since George Saliba has said that he considers me a meatpuppet master. I didn't encourage Limerick to write anything on Wikipedia. On several occasions I vented my frustrations as to how difficult it is to get wording truly neutral on wikipedia (if there are editors whose desired wording is POV). I told him I had essentially written a 10- or 20-page book in the Lebanon and 2006 Israel-Lebanon Conflict articles in debating whether Israel was fighting against Hezbollah or Lebanon. He decided to check things out, and made a few comments. He is certainly not my meatpuppet. I m dude2002 22:28, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

I have examined the "evidence" of the March 27, 2007 entries. I find them not disruptive, not vandalism, and not indicative of sockpuppetry. My opinion based on that data is that the accused are NOT sockpuppets. I further certify that I do not know the accused and have never heard of the accused name before. To the all parties of this complaint, I ask that you try to peacefully coexist!Dereks1x 23:59, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Comments


 * It would appear that the editors themselves may disagree with you, but good luck on your own sock puppetry case. — George Saliba[ talk ] 06:34, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

The two editors (three apparently, including Big brother is always watching) have admitted to knowing each other in person, working together on a specific topic, and using the same computer (per the in my defense section above, though I guess it should be in our defense). I think the question then becomes whether or not these users are engaging in meat puppetry. — George Saliba[ talk ] 06:34, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

And the answer is no. There is nothing wrong with knowing another editor personally, as long as you do not specifically encourage, coerce, engage, etc. them into making edits. If I vent to my colleague on how hard it is to get wikipedia straight on the Lebanon article and the 2006 Israel-Lebanon Conflict article, and my colleague then decides that he's going to check it out, that isn't meat puppetry. Even if we use the same computer, so he can only log on after I log off, that doesn't mean that I'm using him as a puppet. I m dude2002 03:52, 1 April 2007 (UTC)


 * From the meat puppet policy page:"'[Meatpuppets] may be friends of another editor, may be related in some way to the subject of an article under discussion, or may have been solicited by someone to support a specific angle in a debate. Wikipedians also call such user accounts single-purpose accounts, because whereas committed Wikipedians are usually active on a range of articles, and their aim is to see a balanced growth in articles and in the encyclopedia as a whole, single-purpose accounts come to Wikipedia with one agenda.'"Even if you didn't "encourage, coerce, or engage" them into making their edits, your colleagues may still be considered meat puppets. Through the very isolated, targetted edits made by LimerickLimerickson, I would call him a "single-purpose account... with one agenda." I wouldn't consider him to be "active on a range of articles." He made edits on 9 days total over a 7 week period, every single time to articles you yourself were editting or involved in discussing, by as little as 3 minutes after your own edits. — George Saliba[ talk ] 06:34, 3 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Clearly this is a sockpuppet using its two accounts to create fake consensus. Where is the confusion here? Ban it already.--I'll bring the food (Talk - Contribs - My Watchlist) 13:50, 4 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Conclusions

The user above claims in effect that the accounts are meat puppets, which still would be unacceptable. However, given editing histories and times, typing and prose style, and misspellings the accounts have in common, these are sock puppets, and appear all to be operated by I m dude2002. Indef for the socks, 24 hours for the puppetmaster (will give the puppetmaster a bit of a break for owning up to Big brother on his own.) Seraphimblade Talk to me 18:00, 4 April 2007 (UTC)