Wikipedia:Suspected sock puppets/Okkar


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the case of suspected sockpuppetry. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page. All edits should go to the talk page of this case. If you are seeing this page as a result of an attempt to open a new case of sockpuppetry of the same user, read this for detailed instructions.

User:Okkar

 * Suspected sockpuppeteer


 * Suspected sockpuppets


 * Report submission by: Chris 03:30, 7 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Evidence

User Okkar showed up yesterday (Friday, January 5, 2007) as a contentious single-article editor at Military of Myanmar, started to make unilateral deletions which I reverted, which led to a revert war. I stopped, because it's just not productive.
 * Some how you seems to have convieniently forgotten to mention that you were found guilty against 3R rule and you were warned for abusing new comers and then you stopped, not because you thought was "not productive". Okkar 05:58, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

Then he found our Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Burma/Myanmar, for which there had been no complaints in four months, and wants to change the page name. I said I would only support the move if the other Burman members of our project who had been there earlier would wish it. Hence the start of the flaming, and in short order User:Gadone showed up, and quickly changed names to MgMinGyiTharMgMyaPhay, and also accused me of "discriminating" against its country, which is the same argument Okkar used. This is an editor with no edits of articles, just piping in on a vote to skew the results. It's too similar and too quick to be anything but a sockpuppet. Chris 03:24, 7 January 2007 (UTC)


 * In the age of IRC and IM messaging, news travelled fast and quick, surely as an internet user, you would have known. That should not be the ground for the basis of your accusation.  Neither you nor your supporter have contacted the said persons in questions, who are currently online and chatting on irc.  Yet, you insist that these are not real people simply to suppress any dessent and objection against your rule on WikiProject Burma/Myanmar Okkar 06:35, 8 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Update-now there has been created Wikipedia:Requests for mediation/Wikipedia:WikiProject Burma/Myanmar, sockpuppets N.Linn and Phothar showed up, again never having edited an article, but placed the bogus names at the RfM, minutes after Okkar had done so. These are clearly sockpuppets. Example from Wikipedia:Requests for mediation/Wikipedia:WikiProject Burma/Myanmar enclosed below-


 * 1) Agree. Okkar 06:58, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
 * 2) Agree. N.Linn 07:03, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
 * 3) Agree. Phothar 07:06, 7 January 2007 (UTC)


 * This is a pure lie. These people are the Myanmar Online users.  You can contact them personally online at irc server on irc.myanmaronline.org.  They have all joined to make their voice heard on the issues relating to their country.  Myanmar internet users realised about discriminating and insulting comments regarding their country name was made by Chris when i put the topic of the discussion threat to #ygnchat (the main irc chatroom for myanmar internet users with over 300+ users daily from Myanmar).  YOu can contact them indvidually on irc server at Myanmar Online, their nick names xcore, phothar and gadone.  You can verify this yourself. This is a pure personal attack and trying to remove me from Wikipedia due to the fact that I am standing up and speaking up for my country.  Okkar 01:10, 8 January 2007 (UTC)


 * I further supply the following evidence to revert this false report - please see the whois output of the users:

gadone is gadone@gadone.co.uk * gadone gadone is connecting from *@213.165.240.27 213.165.240.27 gadone is a registered nick gadone on ?!~#eckali @#dagon-1 !~#Dream-Prince &#ygnchat @#burmese !@#help @#admins ?!@#ops ?!@#services &#talk.myanmaronline.net !&#nitric ?!#zero ?!@#jungle !&#operhelp !&#helpdesk !@#radio !&#helpers ?!&#Friz_43v3r ?!&#oct-<30 gadone using irc.yadanarpone.net Yadanarpone gadone is a Network Administrator gadone is available for help. gadone End of /WHOIS list.

phothar is phothar@gestapo.de * phothar phothar is connecting from *@irc.innwa.net 213.165.240.19 phothar is a registered nick phothar on @#talk.myanmaronline.net !@#jackass ?!@#services @#admins ?!@#ops !@#quiz @#burmese !~#clones !&#helpdesk @#hackers #ygnchat !~#taunggyi phothar using irc.innwa.net Innwa Communications IRC Server phothar is away: I am Offline Now, Leave the Message! phothar is a Network Administrator phothar End of /WHOIS list.

the other user xcore is currently not online.

Again, this report was made in order to silent our opposition to Chris discrimination of our country name. A mediation request has been lodged as you can see, and he is simply trying to remove us. Since he has been using Wikipedia a while, he is using all these complaints procedures to get the upper hand in the dispute. I hope some admin would take serious action on this kind of fake reports. Okkar 01:26, 8 January 2007 (UTC)


 * I have no problem with any new user who is civil, and does not unduly push their viewpoint. As per the matter of the mediation, I publically stated in the talk page that I will support the move if it is supported by the members of the project who were here before Okkar showed up. Chris 01:33, 8 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Please see the users posts and none of which contains any uncivil comments, nevertheless please do bear in mind we are talking about one's country here and people tend to take offence when discriminated (i.e. when being told that our country's name will only be recognised if US States Department recognise it). It is clear that this is simply a cheap attempt to silence the opposition in order to get the upperhand in particular dispute which was filed against him and his group. This kind of users who abuse wikipedia's policies and procedures to his own benefits should be investigated and banned. Okkar 01:39, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
 * It is interesting to note that both gadone and phothar, users on the MyanmarOnline chatroom come from the same locations. But they do have different IP addresses, and there is no way to prove whether those same users created the usernames on Wikipedia.--Hintha 02:31, 8 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Ever heard of BNC? they are using BNC on a shell server. Anyone who has any knowledge of IRC and Internet Chatting knows what BNC are. Again, you are trying to attempt to pull the wools over the eyes of the admins here.  Have you even attempt to have conversations with these users? Please stop trying to silence the opposition with cheap trickery.  Okkar 03:02, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

'''Wikipedia includes in their definition of Sockpuppet "to generate an appearance of consensus, or to vote more than once", and at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Sock_puppetry#Forbidden_uses_of_sock_puppets says

"Voting and other shows of support" "Wikipedia uses a "one person, one vote" principle for all votes and similar discussions where individual preferences are counted in any fashion. Accordingly, sock puppets may not be used to give the impression of more support for a viewpoint. This includes voting multiple times in any election, or using more than one account in a discussion at polls and surveys, Wikipedia:Articles for deletion, Wikipedia:Requests for adminship, or on talk pages."

"In addition to double-voting, sock puppets should not be used for the purpose of deception, or to create the illusion of broader support for a position than actually exists."

Nobody is trying to silence any opposition, as stated multiple times a name change would be supported if the vote is clean. I stand by Wikipedia's definition of sockpuppets when it comes to bringing in ringers to skew a vote.''' Chris 13:58, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Whats not clean about Myanmar people voting for the name of their country? is it really that hard to accept that people simply does not share your views? Okkar 15:13, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

From the evidence, it is clear that if not sockpuppets, the accounts in question are at least meatpuppets. Convincing users to come to Wikipedia solely to influence a discussion or vote is not to be stood for. However, the accounts in question have not edited since the 7 January discussion, and did not contribute strongly to the issue. Because of this, they will not be blocked as of yet. However, if any of the canvassing continues, all offending users will face the possibility of being blocked. Take this as a lesson not to use others to influence discussions. For information purposes, from this edit, it is clear that was at one point. editing from. -- Nataly a 13:29, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Comments
 * Conclusions