Wikipedia:Teahouse/Questions/Archive 106

Exactly what qualifies as a secondary source?
Scientists write and publish a lot of papers on their research in peer-reviewed journals, which would be considered primary sources. In some areas, reliable secondary sources seem difficult to find. I often find numerous additional peer-reviewed papers that cite, but do not discuss the original work in any detail.

This is the trouble I am having with the PingER Project article I am creating. I feel concerned, because just one group of collaborators has published the core information on this subject, however they are repeatedly cited by other authors, unrelated to the project. Are they considered secondary sources?

I will check back here for a reply. Wikfr (talk) 19:49, 14 May 2013 (UTC)
 * People who worked on the project directly would be primary sources; the authors you mention having cited these primary sources would be secondary sources.
 * For example, a report by the scientists who carry out an experiment is a primary source; information about the experiment in a paper citing this report is a secondary source.
 * I hope this helps. &mdash; TORTOISE  WRATH  20:33, 14 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Hello and welcome to the TeaHouse Wikfr. A secondary source is one that builds entirely on the work of independent primary sources. In the scientific field review articles are the main secondary sources. Pretty much everything published in Category:Annual Reviews academic journals or Category:Physics review journals counts as a secondary source. Stuartyeates (talk) 22:06, 14 May 2013 (UTC)


 * Yes, that helps a lot! Wikfr (talk) 21:01, 14 May 2013 (UTC)


 * You might be able to find 'related' background information by searching for stories about the "Internet Traffic Report". They provide a 'live' version of the same thing for network admins. It's a free service of one of the big ISPs. What makes it relevant (and I know they have been talked about in Wired and the like) is that they have literally been running the exact same site, without redesign, for over 15 years....compare today and Dec 12, 1998. (LOL) I think the 'idea' was actually based directly on PingER. Revent (talk) 08:16, 15 May 2013 (UTC)

Help with creating first article about a business
I want to create an article about a midwestern baking company called Aunt millie's. If you search Sunbeam Bread, they are listed as a licensee. I have done significant research on this company and would like to submit a basic articel, similar to the one for "Schmidt Baking Company", also a licensee of Sunbeam bread. I do work for this company, but I am a low level manager. I do not own stock and the article will not be to promote the company, but to inform Wiki readers of the history of this 110 year old organization. I believe i can find numerous independent sources, but I am unsure on the notability requirement. Please advise how to best proceed and, if possible, translate some of the rules so I can understand them. Thank you in advance.PWCrackers (talk) 14:16, 14 May 2013 (UTC)


 * Hello, PWCrackers, and welcome to the tea house. Thanks for coming here and asking.
 * The issue about conflict of interest is nothing to do with whether you own any stock, but is about whether you will be able to write about it in a sufficiently neutral way. I accept that you do not intend it to be promotional, but the problem is that you may not see statements as promotional which people unconnected with the company regard that way. But editing with a conflict of interest is not forbidden: if you understand the dangers, and are confident you can overcome them, you are welcome to try. I suggest you look at WP:Your first article. As to notability, if you can indeed find numerous independent sources (that discuss the company in a substantial way - not just listings or directory entries) then the company is by definition notable. Be aware that everything in the article must be referenced (though for uncontroversial factual data the company's own website or publications are acceptable): information from your own experience only is not acceptable. --ColinFine (talk) 17:16, 14 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Hi, Crackers! I might add to the above that your references (other than the non controversial stuff you might reference to the company's website)  Have to be from independent, reliable sources.  In a nutshell, what makes a source reliable is the use of some sort of fact checking by them.  Newspapers, books (by mainline publishers, not the places that publish books if you pay them to) and magazines are almost always reliable.  Many, but not all, of the sites you find on the internet are not.  Newspaper and magazine's websites are fine.  For others, you want to look for some evidence of referencing or other indications of fact checking. Gtwfan52 (talk) 20:29, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

Birth death year template
See the infobox of Alasinga Perumal. The data I have so far: born: 1865 died: 11 May 1909. Now a) in the death parameter "date" is not showing b) it is displaying (aged -45–-44), I want is as (aged 44—45) (with an emdash and without the hyphen)! --Tito Dutta (contact) 11:16, 14 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Hi Tito. Templates are there to make our life easier. Since this wasn't just scrap using the template. So I simply wrote it manually (which I was about to fix to display the date also, but you already did)! Cheers.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 12:28, 14 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Hello and welcome to the Teahouse Tito! I've taken a look at the information that you had in there and have selected the correct template based on your known information.  There is a whole slew of birth/death templates, and picking the correct one can be confusing.   is usually the best one I have found for these things because you simply put the information in that you have leaving the rest of the arguments empty (but defined).  For your example where you are missing birthMonth and birthDay it looks like
 * Excellent! Thanks! --Tito Dutta (contact) 15:52, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

Looking for newbies to cooperate against obstructive editors!
Some editors on wikipedia are obstructing me from editting! They take turns in removing my edits. I thought the newbies ,as myself, could cooperate against older editors manipulations of the 3 reverse rule and unfair games! Please leave me a message on my page! Thanks! Sevendigits (talk) 11:02, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

I agree that edit decision messaging to new users could be more polite, and take into account that content already present may itself be breaking the rules that they seek to enforce on new users, new users who therefore understandably might post similarly, even if that formally breaks the rules. Dan_R._Anderson (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 11:41, 14 May 2013 (UTC)


 * Sevendigits, I'm afraid that the Teahouse is here to help new users, not enlist them to start a crusade. If you are having problems with other editors reverting your edits, the first step is to discuss it with them - if they prove to be unresponsive, there are dispute resolution processes you can undergo to resolve the situation. Please don't try and drag other new users, especially those who are still in the process of getting to grips with Wikipedia, into your personal disputes. Dan, if you're interested in improving the templates and messages directed at new users, you might like to get involved with the Welcoming committee and the Editor retention project, both of which are concerned with improving the early experiences of new users here. Yunshui 雲 &zwj; 水  12:36, 14 May 2013 (UTC)


 * Yes, Dan, dont try and solve the problem here, go somewhere else (sarcasm) Sevendigits (talk) 14:47, 14 May 2013 (UTC)


 * Gaming the system to avoid the penalties of the 3rr rule is the kind of disruptive behavior that will quickly get you blocked. I'm simply going to say, don't do it.  Request a 3rd opinion, take it to the dispute resolution noticeboard, or submit the suspected sockpuppets to the sock puppet investigation team.  Don't try and go all vigilante and round up a posse and stoop to feeding the trolls.  Happy editing!!! Technical 13 (talk) 14:57, 14 May 2013 (UTC)


 * technical 13, thanks for being so welcomingSevendigits (talk) 15:17, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

Contributors
Is it possible to discuss articles with other contributors?

Thanks

RacingArchivist (talk) 10:50, 14 May 2013 (UTC)


 * Of course you can, that is what the talk pages are for!  Thus Spake   Lee Tru.  10:58, 14 May 2013 (UTC)


 * Hi RacingArchivist. Yes, as Lee Tru intimates, each article has a corresponding talk page where you can discuss the article. When you are at the article you wish to discuss, simply hit the tab labeled "talk" at the top left of your screen to access its talk page. Note, though, that the talk page is for discussing improvements to an article and is not a forum for general discussion of the topic of the article. Best regards--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 12:11, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

How can I upload an image or other media easily?
everytime i try to upload something the imagetaggingbot blocks it! what should i do? Rashid Mubasher Talha (talk) 08:22, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

I think you are not choosing a correct license. Zince 34'  08:39, 14 May 2013 (UTC)


 * The picture File:NusratJehanAcademySeal.jpg has been tagged because you have not provided evidence of fair use. You need to edit that page and add the appropriate information showing why the image can be used on Wikipedia: use the format:
 * The obligatory fields are Article, Use and Purpose, but you should fill in as many of the others as you can as well. Full details for using this template can be found here. Yunshui 雲 &zwj; 水  12:21, 14 May 2013 (UTC)
 * The obligatory fields are Article, Use and Purpose, but you should fill in as many of the others as you can as well. Full details for using this template can be found here. Yunshui 雲 &zwj; 水  12:21, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

Thanks i'm all done Rashid Mubasher Talha (talk) 13:22, 14 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Sourcing could be improved (a website would be appropriate, although it doesn't look as though they have one yet) but generally that looks fine. Yunshui 雲 &zwj; 水  13:37, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

Image issues.
I have noticed two issues when using WP. One is that many graphics are very small and while detailed are very difficult to read unless enlarged. I would like to suggest an initiative to try to have minimum graphics sizes as part of the suggested formatting. The other is many times there are maps showing the location of something such as a country. The position is marked by a dot. When You click on the graphic the map comes up, but the dot is gone. Other times the enlarged graphic is missing data compared to the smaller version. Where do you go to talk about or report things like this? 71.108.142.225 (talk) 05:57, 14 May 2013 (UTC)


 * The first comment is in the process of getting fixed, while the second... that is something I have not noticed but should be easy to fix, actually, I have found that a country is always filled in in green. However, that said, Why dont you create an account and fix this I would be glad to help.  Thus Spake   Lee Tru.  10:56, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

It's not always the countries maps, sometimes it is other graphics also. It's like they lose an information layer when they are at full resolution. I will try to dig up some examples when I run across them. What is Wikipedia's recommended graphics extension?71.108.140.182 (talk) 02:49, 16 May 2013 (UTC)


 * A lot of articles use Location map or similar to display one image like a red dot Red pog.svg on top of another image with a map. Clicking the map leads to the file page for the map which may be used in many other articles and doesn't include the dot. A way to see an enlarged map with the dot is to enlarge the whole article in your browser, typically with . Make it smaller with and reset to normal size with . However, enlarging in this way can give a grainy image because it isn't based on a high resolution version of the image. Some image pages like File:Usa edcp relief location map.png have a "Full resolution" link. This should produce the same content as the file page itself, but without any overlay image used in articles. PrimeHunter (talk) 03:12, 16 May 2013 (UTC)

Bingo, That's the problem. What's the use of enlarging it to full resolution if the dot is not there? Maybe a better formatting standard should be talked about so that enlarging to higher resolution keeps all of the image data. Where in Wikipedia do the discuss things like that?71.108.134.143 (talk) 15:34, 16 May 2013 (UTC)


 * It is two separate images in separate files. Our software just asks your browser to display one of the files on top of the other. A file page like File:Red pog.svg or File:Usa edcp relief location map.png is always about a single file, and it does keep all the data for that file when it's enlarged. It wouldn't be practical to make a separate image file for every location using the same map file. File:Usa edcp relief location map.png is used in more than 1000 articles. PrimeHunter (talk) 02:17, 18 May 2013 (UTC)

Is this copyright info right?
I posted this pic from Jason's website listed under "press photo", http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Press_Photo_-_Author_Jason_P._Stadtlander.jpg specifically for public use. I also contacted his publishing company "Ashian Ink" and they responded saying it could be used on Wikipedia, but I always seem to have problems getting around the copyright bot on this thing. Can anyone tell me if I did this right? I also have a picture one of his fans took at a book signing last summer if I should use that one instead. Any Advice would be helpful. B4theword (talk) 19:45, 13 May 2013 (UTC)


 * The picture you took, would probably be easier, but you should be able to use the other one too, I relay don't know -- Thus Spake   Lee Tru.  19:57, 13 May 2013 (UTC)
 * B4theword, the problem with the image is that the licence is restrictive. ideally licences that are free are wanted, images that are licensed for use only on Wikipedia, or only for non-commercial or educational use, or under a license that doesn't allow for the creation of modified/derived works, are unsuitable.  The phrase "public domain for press use" is, I'm afraid, meaningless it's either public domain for everything or it isn't. If you want to use an image taken by someone else you are going to have to obtain the permission of the person who took the photo.  An example of a consent letter can be found at WP:CONSENT and needs, once completed, to be sent to  permissions-en@wikimedia.org. NtheP (talk) 21:15, 13 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Nthep, thank you. That makes sense (I think). I get so confused with all the copyright laws these days. There are so many restrictions and details. In the interest of simplicity I think I'll swap out the image for the one I took at a book signing. Thank you! B4theword (talk) 16:32, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

Adding Audio
How do I embed an audio file into a section of my wiki page?

Ekalinowski (talk) 13:54, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

Hello. Welcome to the Teahouse. Try this

Just change the info insde the template for what you want.  Miss Bono   (zootalk)  15:00, 13 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Miss Bono, I have changed the song you placed above. I would not normally change another user's writing in any way. However, here what you placed was a copyright violation, the song being fair use in certain articles discussing the song itself and nowhere else. The song I replaced it with is freely-licensed. Best regards.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 22:59, 13 May 2013 (UTC)


 * Oops!! Didn't know that, thanks, friend. And Sorry-  Miss Bono   (zootalk)  16:55, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

Upload a file
Hello, i'm currently writing an article about a company and I would like to add the logo of the company on the article. I've already looked at the Wikipedia help page about it and I would send an Email to the owner of the picture to ask about the copyright permission. The thing is that the picture don't come from any website. Actually, I received this picture via Email from the director of the company. So how should I ask him about the copyright permission? My main issue is to link the picture since I don't have any URL. Marc.gem Marc.gem (talk) 12:24, 13 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Company logos are typically copyright protected and can only be uploaded under Fair Use guidelines except in rare circumstances. The director probably doesn't have the rights to release, so it should probably be uploaded to English Wikipedia under fair use. The "Upload file" wizard in the toolbox on the left side of the screen can be used to do this. Wikipedia doesn't link pictures so you don't need a url. I would be aware of conflict of interest issues if you are directly involved with the company. Froggerlaura  ribbit  13:30, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

I'm back with another problem. I tried as  Froggerlaura   ribbit  advised me to do, to upload the file under fair use on wikicommons with the upload wizard tool. But when I put this template: on the licensing part, this message appears: This media file may meet the criteria for speedy deletion. The given reason is: This file is copyrighted and not published under a free license, and the uploader asserts that the usage of this file is fair use, but fair use claims are not permitted on Commons.

What should I do? Thanks in advance Marc.gem (talk) 09:48, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

Ps: How to fill the box above ? The purpose of use for example.


 * Well, I think you should have seen it in the template. Zince  34'  09:53, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

Edit: I did filled the template but this message still appears: This media file may meet the criteria for speedy deletion. The given reason is: This file is copyrighted and not published under a free license, and the uploader asserts that the usage of this file is fair use, but fair use claims are not permitted on Commons. This file may be deleted without further notice. If the project that this file is to be used on allows fair use, and its usage would comply with the project's appropriate exemptions, please upload it locally. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Marc.gem (talk • contribs) 09:58, 14 May 2013 (UTC)


 * Which is the file ? Zince  34'  09:59, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

It is a logo of a French company. Marc.gem (talk) 12:09, 14 May 2013 (UTC)


 * I would guess, based on the information above, that you're attempting to upload the file to Wikimedia Commons, rather than Wikipedia. Commons can't accept non-free images, so you can't add files that are being used under fair use. Instead, you need to upload the file to Wikipedia itself, using the File Upload Wizard. Yunshui 雲 &zwj; 水  12:14, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

Yes, that's it! So if I directly go to wikipedia, fair use template will be accepted as well as my picture? Thanks a lot for your help. Marc.gem (talk) 12:18, 14 May 2013 (UTC)
 * That's right (well, assuming it meets the Fair Use requirements). Commons is a sister project to Wikipedia, rather than (as many new users think) "the bit of Wikipedia where we keep our pictures"; it has slightly different rules about what can and can't be uploaded. Let me know if you need a hand sorting out the fair use rationale. Yunshui 雲 &zwj; 水  12:28, 14 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Fair use images cannot be uploaded to Commons. They are only uploaded to English Wikipedia. Go to this page. One of the prompts will be for logos. Make sure the image is low resolution and small. The "purpose" most used for logos is that they aid in identification of the company they represent. You will need to have an article in mainspace (not in your sandbox) in order to insert the image and ensure it won't be deleted. Fair use images not associated with an article are quickly deleted. Froggerlaura  ribbit  12:48, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

How did is we uplink photo
This Kyoung,

I may am gonig to wirte an article on wiki about my dad stew for recipe he make i korea. I took pictures of the stew. how can i wheat upload pictuer of stew then alos is but how I put it in the recipe articleKyoungAuto (talk) 13:22, 12 May 2013 (UTC)
 * To upload a photo, click on the "Upload a file" link on the left hand side of your screen. To add it to an article, write FILENAME into the edit window. However, it is unlikely that your dad's recipe meets the criteria set out at WP:N, which is required before an article can be accepted.-- Gilderien Chat&#124;List of good deeds 13:40, 12 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Hello Kyoung, to clarify: if you are planning to make an article about a recipe, it should go on a recipe site since Wikipedia does not do cookbook articles. However, if there is an article about a Korean dish, its history, its importance, and you have a photo of this dish, then that you can certainly add. Can you please clarify what dish/recipe you want to add a photo of? Do we have an article about this food yet? MatthewVanitas (talk) 20:46, 14 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Ah, I see you wrote an article Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Village stew that was deleted because it was copied from another website. For there to be an article Village stew you would have to provide some proof that such a dish by that name (in English or Korean) exists. So mention in it in a book or article about Korean cuisine, for example. MatthewVanitas (talk) 20:48, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

Breadth of locations
I've recently come across statements like "located in Houston, in the U.S. state of Texas"—is all this information generally given? I usually see "located in Houston" or "located in Houston, Texas" but can't find a guideline that spells this out. The guideline on contextual links states that "broader geographical area[s]" should be linked but doesn't specify how broad. – 296.x (talk) 22:22, 10 May 2013 (UTC)


 * Hello and welcome to the Teahouse 296.x! I think it is a little wordy myself.  I suggest in this case for you to be bold and change it.  If someone complains about it, you'll have to ask yourself if it is really worth your time to bicker of a little wording that doesn't really hurt anything even if it doesn't really help anything either.  If you think it is worth your time, I would recommend asking for a 3rd opinion sooner than later.  Happy editing! Technical 13 (talk) 22:34, 10 May 2013 (UTC)


 * Thanks; it's no big deal—was just wondering if there was anything about this in the Manual of Style or similar. – 296.x (talk) 03:38, 11 May 2013 (UTC)


 * Taking a broad view, WP:ENGVAR suggests using the local style of English. So for example, Americans would find it very natural to say things like "Houston, Texas", and by extension, "London, England". British people would just write "London", but probably also "Houston, Texas" (since it's easier to use the Americanism). Canadian people might feel the need to disambiguate London, since there's a London in Canada as well as the original London. No article about a British topic should ever say "London, England" or anything like that. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 03:57, 11 May 2013 (UTC)


 * Hi, 296. Thanks for stopping by the Teahouse.  It might be wise to remember that this is English Wikipedia, not "the United States" Wikipedia.  What might seem clear to us in the states (that includes me) might not be so clear to someone in England or Australia.  I am not sure where, but I think the MOS does address that.  I'll look and get back to you.  Happy editing! Gtwfan52 (talk) 04:03, 11 May 2013 (UTC)


 * Yes; although I'd seen this specifically with US states, I meant the question generally (Lyon, Rhône-Alpes, France? São Paulo, São Paulo, Brazil?) Thanks for taking a look for me. – 296.x (talk) 04:37, 11 May 2013 (UTC)

Let me clear up my original comment a bit. When I said wordy, I meant that I think that instead of:
 * "located in Houston, in the U.S. state of Texas"

It should be worded as:
 * "located in Houston, Texas, USA"

As this isn't us.wikipedia.org, I think that all of the information as such needs to be there, just not the wordiness. I hope this is clearer. Happy editing!!!! Technical 13 (talk) 11:26, 11 May 2013 (UTC)
 * From a stylistic point of view, the first option may actually be preferable to the second. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 13:29, 11 May 2013 (UTC)


 * I (a non-Indian) run across this a lot in India location articles, where often a given town will be described as being "in Anuppur District" or "in UP" with no further explanation. I tend to clarify it like so: "in Anuppur District, Madhya Pradesh, India" or else as "in Farrukhabad district‎, in the Indian state of Uttar Pradesh. Just for what it's worth. It's been an interesting experience reading India-related articles on Wikipedia and seeing even intros written in a way that only makes sense to an Indian reader (use of terms like lakh, offhand references to historical figures, comparison to other regional cities), which makes me more sympathetic, to, say, a reader from Capetown or Tokyo reading US-centric article. It is indeed a balancing act to be intelligible to a global audience without over-explaining. MatthewVanitas (talk) 20:57, 14 May 2013 (UTC)


 * Personally, I think it's more a matter of not being ambiguous than of wp:ENGVAR. In an article about Dallas, Texas, you can just say Houston....in an article about Hurricane Katrina you need to say Houston, Texas. Similarly, in articles about specifically 'british' subjects just saying 'London' can be unambiguous, but in more 'general' places say London, England. IMO, putting in 'three levels' of qualifiers is usually redundant, though....in the phrase "Houston, Texas, USA", the link to "Texas" is 'sufficient', at least in 'prose', and after the first mention you'd just say "Houston". In an infobox, though, you should give the 'complete' breakdown...
 * (Note this is my 'opinion', not policy, though it is consistent with policy AFAIK) Revent (talk) 18:23, 18 May 2013 (UTC)

Is date of birth for notable people a security risk?
I'm sure this must have been approached before but can't seem to find any answers on it. I was working on an article for an author that I know of... and have listed his DOB. But, that raised to my personal inquiry on whether having date of births and birth locations accessible to the public poses a privacy risk of information? Technically speaking, having those two pieces of information along with perhaps a SS # would allow some people to pull credit reports on high profile individuals allowing a LOT of information to be gained. B4theword (talk) 14:25, 7 May 2013 (UTC)


 * Such information can only be included in a WP article if it has already been published elsewhere. You've also pointed out that one would need the person's SSN or other identity number as applicable for their country, so a DOB alone is fairly useless. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 14:29, 7 May 2013 (UTC)
 * If its public knowledge, no. Example. If a birthdate is provided, May 8, how many have a May 8th birthdate? Do you mean that nobody could think of a May 8th date on their own?? OR how about the fact that the SSDI, Social Security Death Index, is online...you mean a scammer couldnt go there and get some old SSNs?? OR birth certs, etc etc etcCoal town guy (talk) 14:30, 7 May 2013 (UTC)


 * WP:BLPPRIVACY covers this briefly. We should have a presumption in favour of privacy for personal information like dates of birth and full birth names. Sionk (talk) 14:42, 7 May 2013 (UTC)
 * If the person is highly notable, a "celebrity" or genuinely famous person, and if their birthplace and date of birth has been published already in several reliable sources, then it is perfectly acceptable to include this information. What is not acceptable is for a Wikipedia editor to do any type of original research to uncover this information, such as searching primary sources like government databases. Marginally notable people are entitled to a modicum of privacy, and Wikipedia editors summarize reliable secondary sources. We don't "ferret out the facts".  Cullen 328  Let's discuss it  03:32, 8 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Good to know about it being previously published etc, as I was wondering if I ought to delete it from the article I'm revamping. But I think most of the world knew when Sir Edmund Hillary's son was born, since he himself was so incredibly famous at the time, so I suppose I can leave it in, then.  ScarletRibbons (talk) 14:12, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

Okay, then on this note, I have been working on Jason Stadtlander's page. I have a true DOB and location from his cousin who is an illustrator of one of his books. However the DOB and location are not published anywhere I can find to reference. So... Do I use what she gave me for the page? (is general proximity better than nothing at all?) I deleted them (You'll see it in the Diff). So if you think it should be put back in place, feel free to either let me know or take care of it yourself. B4theword (talk) 19:29, 13 May 2013 (UTC)


 * A 'accepted' (in general, not a WP thing) way to source the date of birth, etc, for a 'public figure' is to check somewhere like authorities.loc.gov
 * It'll give you the 'bibliographic record' for the person....if their dob and such is in there, it's because they have published it. (The record will give an exact citation of where). There's even a template, Cite linked authority file. Revent (talk) 20:02, 16 May 2013 (UTC)

Movie Poster needed
I need two posters for my two movie articles. Can anyone help me please ? Articles are More Sex and the Single Mom and Sex and the Single Mom  Mohammad Sabbir  ♥  01:56, 15 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Hello Mohammad, If you still have the posters you uploaded to Commons, upload them directly to Wikipedia. (Commmons does not allow non-free content.) Tag them with Non-free poster, and use Non-free use rationale poster for the non-free use rationale. —teb728 t c 09:35, 16 May 2013 (UTC)

Page Rated R (Rihanna album) with incorrect ref formatting
The references:

show incorrect results:

83. ^ |UK R&B (Official Charts Company) |align="center"|1

84. ^ |UK Singles (Official Charts Company) |align="center"|2

Cite error: tag with name "sc_UKrandb_Rihanna" defined in is not used in prior text (see the help page).

Cite error: tag with name "sc_UK_Rihanna" defined in is not used in prior text (see the help page).

What's wrong? Thx --Frze (talk) 14:25, 16 May 2013 (UTC)


 * Hey Frze. I have answered your request at the Help Desk and will work through the problem with you there. --Skamecrazy123 (talk) 14:27, 16 May 2013 (UTC)

What tools do experienced editors use?
My first impression of Wikipedia was that edting all came from the tools bar at the top starting with the bold, italic icons on the left hand side etc. It now looks as if this isn't the case, since one has to manually add the {refslist} tag right at the end!

So I'd like to know what tools do the experienced editors use here, and whether or not there's a structured tutorial for beginners to create their first page. --WorldCitizen831966 (talk) 17:22, 16 May 2013 (UTC)


 * There is an editing tutorial at wp:tutorial. wp:FAQ/Editing is also a good place to look.
 * As far was what people actually use, I think wp:AutoWikiBrowser is the most common 'power editing' tool. Revent (talk) 18:15, 16 May 2013 (UTC)


 * Hello and welcome to the Teahouse WC! You should note that WP:AWB is a semi-automated bot and "most" users don't (and shouldn't) use it.  If you are looking for a more WYSIWYG type editing interface, the closest you will get is a gadget that can be activated from your Special:Preferences.  Look for a line item that looks something like:
 * &#9744; wikEd, a full-featured integrated text editor for Firefox, Safari, and Google Chrome. Please read the help page for usage instructions.
 * Then turn the &#9744; into a &#9745; & scroll to the bottom and hit the . Then, come back here and let me know if that was what you were looking for.  Also note that there is a new visual editor being developed so editing should become easier without knowing all of the templates and markup... Hope this helps! Technical 13 (talk) 18:46, 16 May 2013 (UTC)
 * wikEd is a step in the right direction once I'm familiar with the basic editor for Wikipedia, so thanks.--WorldCitizen831966 (talk) 23:01, 16 May 2013 (UTC)
 * I'm a Junior Wrangler at the teahouse, and some sort of sparkly medal thing (File:Editor - bronze star.jpg) as far as "experienced editor" goes, but I don't use AWB or WikiEd or even Huggle... I just use WP:Twinkle a lot. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 23:15, 16 May 2013 (UTC)


 * Yeah, okay... I use: wikEd, WP:AWB, WP:TW, many other Special:Preferences, and a LOAD of Userscripts / User:Technical 13/common.js. I also happen to be one of the alpha testers for something called Snuggle.
 * The best place for you to start your article will be through the WP:WIZ. TheOriginalSoni (talk) 23:33, 16 May 2013 (UTC)
 * I'm now browsing the wiki markup reference manual which is incredibly helpful, and clear.--WorldCitizen831966 (talk) 22:42, 17 May 2013 (UTC)

User page question
Hello. A while ago, I made my user page, but the user box should not be next to the text, going by the user pages of others. Also, my user box seems to be aligned on the left, but most others like to align theirs to the right hand side of the page. Is there a help page for user page construction, or can anyone give some advice on alignment of the template to the right, and having the text appear on the left side of the screen? Optimom (talk) 22:48, 18 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Sincere thanks to User:Technical 13 for fixing my user page. :) Optimom (talk) 23:22, 18 May 2013 (UTC)


 * Hello and welcome to the Teahouse Optimom!!! A decent place to start to learn how to design your userpage is the User Page Design Center.  I hope that helps! Technical 13 (talk) 23:36, 18 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the link. I had not seen that yet. :) Optimom (talk) 00:05, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

when will the article get uploaded
Hi, i have already created an article for wikipedia. I have given all the references and saved it. I want to ask how much time will it take for the article to be uploaded.202.65.133.122 (talk) 17:04, 16 May 2013 (UTC)


 * Welcome to the Teahouse. If you give us a link to the article in question, we may be able to answer you. - David Biddulph (talk) 17:13, 16 May 2013 (UTC)


 * hey david, thanks. the article is in sandbox stage and i have saved it. the link is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Martandbadoni/sandbox.Martandbadoni (talk) 17:58, 16 May 2013 (UTC)


 * hey david, thanks. the article is in sandbox stage. i have saved the page. here is the link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Martandbadoni/sandbox. Martandbadoni (talk) 17:59, 16 May 2013 (UTC)


 * You should add to the top of it, so that it gets reviewed. That might take a week or so to happen.


 * On a quick glance, it looks rather good. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 19:00, 16 May 2013 (UTC)


 * Good work! One suggestion, though. After first mention of a her full name, we refer to her by her surname, Dutt, rather than her first name.  Cullen 328  Let's discuss it  19:36, 16 May 2013 (UTC)


 * hey thanks guys. i missed out on the submitting part and the article has been delayed hence. and i have changed the name to Dutt in all. what do you guys think? Martandbadoni (talk) 21:17, 16 May 2013 (UTC)


 * I'm a reviewer and had a moment, so I just published it for you. Please note, I made a few cleanup changes; you may want to use the comparison buttons on the History tab of the article to see what I changed, just for learning. You did a great job on a lot of the formatting and sourcing, we can really see that you did your studying on how an article is composed. Only a few small comments: only wikilink a term (e.g. Hyderabad) once per article, at its first appearance (I believe there are a few exceptions like lists). Also be consistent about whether you're using quotes or italics for titles of films (I'm not sure what WP:WikiProject Film's standard is). Other than that, pretty good. I'd also check GoogleNews and similar for yet more articles from major papers; note she was written up in Times of India just a few days ago: http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2013-05-01/news-interviews/38956765_1_short-film-rd-burman-telugu . MatthewVanitas (talk) 19:42, 17 May 2013 (UTC)


 * Hi Matthew, thanks for the suggestions. I have made the necessary changes regarding consistency of film titles. Just have a look at it.Martandbadoni (talk) 11:53, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

Stupid but legit question
Hi guys. I reported Benji Powell last week (9 May), which resulted in a one week block (though the admins were pushing for indefinite, but I requested one week in light of WP:AGF and WP:ROPE. He often edited constructively, but there were frequently immaturities and repeated addition of unverifiable information. Unfortunately, the block (like it does with some other situations I've seen before) might've scared him off of WikiProject (not on pourpose, of course). Is there any legit way to deal with it, or do I just move on. Advice is appreciated. Thanks guys. WorldTraveller101(Trouble?/My Work) 21:51, 17 May 2013 (UTC)


 * P.S If you respond, please notify at my talk page.


 * Hello and welcome to the Teahouse WorldTraveller101! As I'm sure that your CVU/A instructor will agree, you can leave him a message on his talk page telling him that his return to the WikiProject would be appreciated and whatnot, but after that, the best thing to do is to just let it go.  I hope this helps! :  Technical 13 (talk) 23:18, 18 May 2013 (UTC)


 * That seems to be what I thought. Let me check if he has made a contribution since. I am so far letting it go, although I have left him a message on his talk that he is welcome back. Thanks for the advice. WorldTraveller101(Trouble?/My Work) 12:58, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

Translating articles with Duolingo
Hi, I posted a question here Wikipedia_talk:Translation haven't had any replies yet, thought it could possibly be the wrong place for it so I thought I'd try here! Moohan (talk) 11:52, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

Orphan Page
I created a page that was published about 4 weeks ago: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anne_Kreamer Two weeks ago I notice that it was called an Orphan. Around May 8th, Kurt Andersen linked his Wiki page and the SPY magazine Wiki page to Anne's Wiki page but I see it is still referred to as an Orphan. -Do I not understand what an Orphan Page is? -Does it take time to have this classification Badge removed? -None of the above. Thanks Kenneth SmithKennethbsmith (talk) 22:31, 20 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Hi Kenneth. You posted your question in two places (which should generally be avoided as it causes people to duplicate efforts). Your posting at the help desk has been answered. Best regards--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 23:54, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

Sandbox
Don't know whether it's just happening to me, but what happened to the Sandbox button at the top right corner? (Along with Preferences, Talk, Contributions?) I want it back! As well as my orange bar! *waah* ☯ Bonkers The Clown  \(^_^)/  Nonsensical Babble  ☯ 18:40, 20 May 2013 (UTC)
 * I surely don't miss the orange bar...but, I did notice that Twinkle and other "tweaks" are missing for me, and yes, the Sandbox button. Gahh!!!! Work is stifled... I might ping someone at WMF tech and see if they have any thoughts. SarahStierch (talk) 18:43, 20 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Hey, Bonkers and Sarah. There's a problem with Vector's Javascript, which is breaking things. It's already reported and being discussed at VPT, so you can follow the issue there; in the meantime, since the problem is only with the Vector skin, you should be able to bypass the issue by switching to Monobook or either of the other two options. Writ Keeper &#9863;&#9812; 18:44, 20 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks! Oh funny. It's back now. Great. Cheers, ☯ Bonkers The Clown  \(^_^)/  Nonsensical Babble  ☯ 18:45, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

iPod shot
I took a picture of my iPod U2 Special edition and I want to upload it for future uses. What liscence should I upload it under??  Miss Bono   (zootalk)  17:17, 20 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Hello and welcome back to the Teahouse ! I'm not real good with copyright stuffs, but I'm thinking that is what is known as a derivative work and there will still be some level of copyright owned by iPod (Apple). Someone correct me if I am wrong. :) Technical 13 (talk) 17:24, 20 May 2013 (UTC)
 * So, I am uploading it with the plain form, which item should I pick from the Licensing List??  Miss Bono   (zootalk)  17:32, 20 May 2013 (UTC)
 * You shouldn't; you can't upload the image at all. Check out Commons's policy on derivative works at Derivative works. Basically, while the photograph itself is an artistic work of your own to which you hold the copyright, the fact that it itself incorporates others' copyrighted works means that the other copyright holder (in this case, presumable Apple, Inc.) still has a say in it. You would need permission and release from both copyright holders to use this on Wikipedia, and as it's almost certain that you won't be able to get Apple to release their end of it, it can't be used on Wikipedia.
 * Philosophically (and IANAL, so...), this is why the license that Wikipedia uses (CC-BY-SA) is so important. One of the other optional clauses in the Creative Commons license is "no derivative works" (a.k.a. "ND"); this means that any work on Wikipedia would be subject to the same rule as the iPod.  One would need permission from Wikipedia to reuse anything on it in one's own work, so it wouldn't really be free to reuse.  On the other side of the coin, the "SA" (standing for "share alike") that Wikipedia does use protects us the other way around.  SA mandates that any derivative works be licensed the same way Wikipedia's is; without it, anyone could create their own derivative work and then license it under heavy restrictions (similar to how you have your own license on your photograph), exploiting Wikipedia's free license to avoid having to ask to do so. This would mean that Wikipedia's content isn't being used or distributed freely, albeit at one remove. Writ Keeper &#9863;&#9812; 17:39, 20 May 2013 (UTC)
 * And the pictures of iPods and iPhones I see around here?? I quite don't understand. Please Writ Keeper take a look at this file Various_iPods.jpg and see its licensing. Thanks and sorry for the bothers...   Miss Bono   (zootalk)  17:51, 20 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Well, like I said, I'm not a lawyer, so I'm far from authoritative on copyright issues. Bearing in mind the danger of relying on other stuff, you could certainly try to upload it under an "own-work" CC-BY-SA license and see what happens; even if it isn't right to do that, the Wiki won't come crashing down around us because of it. :) A better person to ask might be MRG, as she's generally known as the copyright expert around here. (She's generally kept pretty busy, though.) Writ Keeper &#9863;&#9812; 18:00, 20 May 2013 (UTC)
 * I asked her and I am already waiting for her response ;) Thanks.  Miss Bono   (zootalk)  18:16, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

Update Kiwix
How can I update my portable Kiwix version (2012)??  Miss Bono   (zootalk)  13:58, 20 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Hi, Miss Bono and welcome back. I don't know what this is, but if it is Wikipedia-related ask at the technical village pump. If not, try the computing reference desk.— Vchimpanzee  ·  talk  ·  contributions  · 20:33, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

Infobox not displaying all fields
I recently contributed to most of the information on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_of_Theseus_(film). Everything is how it should be except the infobox. It refuses to display some of the fields. In the edit, these fields can be seen. But every time i publish the page, these fields never show.

Please help me with this, as I've tried to figure it out to the best of my knowledge, which is very limited since I am a first time editor.

Thanks,

Abijit 202.134.150.164 (talk) 06:56, 20 May 2013 (UTC)


 * FWIW, I'm looking now. Revent (talk) 06:59, 20 May 2013 (UTC)


 * Umm, I see a could of edits you made a few hours ago, but not to the infobox.... Maybe try again? You should be able to edit it. Revent (talk) 07:01, 20 May 2013 (UTC)


 * In any infobox, the software will only display fields that are named in the infobox parameters. Because the version you're using has parameters named "|directed by=", "|exectutive producers=" and so on, which do not appear in Template:Infobox film, Wikipedia's software doesn't recognise them as valid, and so doesn't display them. I've corrected the problem with this edit, fixing the parameters to match those supported by Infobox film. Yunshui 雲 &zwj; 水  07:20, 20 May 2013 (UTC)


 * Thank you so much Yunshui! It displays now. Did not know about the template that needed to be followed.

Abijit Vivek (talk) 07:33, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

Applying custom user common.css to mobile site (m.wikipedia.org)
I created a custom user common.css (User:Vbksdvbkuyvb/common.css).

It works on the normal wikipedia.org site, but not on the m.wikipedia.org mobile site.

What must I do to get this to work on the mobile site?

Thanks.

Vbksdvbkuyvb (talk) 20:51, 18 May 2013 (UTC)

Hello and welcome to the Teahouse Vbksdvbkuyvb. This is a known issue and you can follow the progress on a method to do this here →. Technical 13 (talk) 22:00, 18 May 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for the bugzilla link. That issue only references separate settings for mobile / handheld. I actually want to use the same settings for both desktop & mobile / handheld. (I don't care if I have to copy my custom CSS to multiple places if necessary). Is there any way to apply custom CSS to a mobile? (I'm using an iPhone 4S, if that matters, though I doubt that it does)

Thanks again.

Vbksdvbkuyvb (talk) 20:19, 19 May 2013 (UTC)


 * You may be interested in MediaWiki:Mobile.css and MediaWiki:Mobile.js which imply that you should have your custom common.css for your mobile device loaded to User:Vbksdvbkuyvb/mobile.css although I'm not sure if that will work. The mobile Frontend for wikipedia is still in beta and not entirely stable in my opinion.  Note that common.css and common.js do work if you view the desktop version of the site from your mobile device. Technical 13 (talk) 21:09, 19 May 2013 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the additional links.

I copied the CSS from my common.css to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Vbksdvbkuyvb/mobile.css, but that didn't work.

Any other ideas?

Also, are there any other Wikipedia support forums where I should also post this question?

Thanks again.

Vbksdvbkuyvb (talk) 22:08, 19 May 2013 (UTC)


 * Hrmm... I wish I could have been more assistance. You may get a more detailed answer by posting your question at Village Pump/Technical.  Good luck! Technical 13 (talk) 22:37, 19 May 2013 (UTC)


 * Thanks for trying.

If I find an answer elsewhere, I'll repost it here.

Thanks again for helping.

Vbksdvbkuyvb (talk) 10:25, 20 May 2013 (UTC)


 * Was told that custom CSS is not currently supported for mobile:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(technical)#Applying_custom_user_common.css_to_mobile_site_.28m.wikipedia.org.29

Vbksdvbkuyvb (talk) 04:17, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

Access date before publish date — Might be a funny one!
I have just cited this Bengali article in a Wikipedia article Meghe Dhaka Tara (2013 film)! It is published half an hour ago! The problem is following local standard time they have dated it 19 May 2013, But, in Wikipedia it is still 18 May 2013. I have not mentioned the publishing date in the citation to avoid "access date before publishing date" confusion! Or should I just add it mentioning local time zone in bracket? --Tito Dutta (contact) 18:48, 18 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Hello Titodutta. Just cite it correctly. Everyone knows that our planet has 24+ time zones and an international date line.  Cullen 328  Let's discuss it  19:48, 18 May 2013 (UTC)
 * I tend to give newspaper articles the date on which they appeared in the print edition, although sometimes that's hard with online articles. In many cases those articles appear online the previous day, which has led to some of my references having the same situation.— Vchimpanzee  ·  talk  ·  contributions  · 20:44, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

No reason for deletion; and Subpages
I nominated a file for deletion: File:Chandigarh - Bus Tata Marcopolo.png I believe it is too large, and have uploaded a .jpg version of the same image: File:Tata_Marcopolo_Green_Chandigarh_Ind.jpg

Now on the image file page , this message appears in the nomination banner:

<< This page is a member of Category:Incomplete deletion requests - missing reason because it is incomplete (you failed to fill in the reason). PLEASE fill in all five variables and create the subpage! (Note: This error may appear due to a caching issue; purge this page's cache to fix it.) On the subpage, please use the following code: Here is the full syntax again, in case you misplaced it. Don't use it as the subpage code:

>>

I don't understand what is a subpage and how to create it and use the code and where to put the reason. I have put the reason. I'm at my wit's end. How to fix it? Please help.

The file is on wikimedia commons. It does not apply to wikipedia right. I think I may have fixed it. Have I? -Polytope4d (talk) 14:44, 18 May 2013 (UTC)


 * All looks good. The problem was, you requested "deletion". This is an unusual action, seldom done except where the picture violates someone's personal or property rights. The right thing was to make the articles use a better picture. The "too large" picture is still avalable in Commons, harming nothing. Jim.henderson (talk) 16:08, 18 May 2013 (UTC)


 * Thanks a lot. I think I've learnt more from editors like you. -Polytope4d (talk) 17:22, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

Reason for Unacceptance of my Article !!
I am unable to understand why my article, Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Axial_fan_design has been deleted. I had not copied that from anywhere and had written that majorly from a book named "S. M. Yahya". The comment says that the book wasn't a reference at all inspite of me giving the page nos. that I used. Please help me in making me understand this and what can I do to make it getting accepted. Thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Prj1991 (talk • contribs) 13:32, 19 May 2013 (UTC)


 * Your article was not deleted; it was declined. I think it is a very good article, and should eventually be moved to the article space.  The reviewer felt concerned, because you did not use enough in-line citations.  He/she expects at least one citation for each paragraph, because of the technical complexity of the article.  Please reread the reviewer's comment, and keep improving the article.  Wikfr (talk) 01:27, 21 May 2013 (UTC)


 * I have taken a better look at your article. Obviously, you are an expert on this subject;  I am not an expert, but should be able to follow the article.  I tagged some of the places where I was having trouble understanding, and I fixed a few minor formatting issues.  You created some good artwork for the article.  Please hang in there.  Creating an AfC article is a lot of work.  I know from experience. Wikfr (talk)

Should peacock terms in source be in Wikipedia?
I have found a few peacock terms in Wikipedia, but they were taken directly from cited references. For example "X is a leading supplier of...." I felt tempted to remove the word "leading," but hesitated when I saw it in the source, in this case a trade magazine.

What do you suggest I do?

I will watch this space for your reply.

Thanks. Wikfr (talk) 01:16, 21 May 2013 (UTC)


 * Hello Wikfr and welcome to the Teahouse! What I would do is if it is wrapped in quotes and cited directly from a reliable independent source is leave it be.  If it does not fully qualify as such, then it doesn't qualify as an exception to the peacock terms. Technical 13 (talk) 01:29, 21 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Hi, Wikfr! Just a small caveat to T-13's advice above. Frequently, trade magazines are not reliable sources.  Many, if not most, trade mags source their articles directly from press releases, making them no better than a company's website for sourcing information about a company. Gtwfan52 (talk) 03:10, 21 May 2013 (UTC)
 * I have a slightly different view than Gtwfan52, perhaps because I wrote for reputable trade publications for about 25 years. In my experience, the personnel and product announcement sections of trade publications are based, to a large extent, on press releases. However, the editors of a trade publication will receive far more press releases than they could possibly publish. So, the selection and trimming of these press releases represents professional editorial judgment and fact checking. The longer pieces in trade publications, especially those with a byline, will represent the independent reporting or opinions of either a full-time or part-time professional journalist with professional editorial control. I would estimate that less than 2% of my trade publication writing was based on press releases, and even then, I rewrote, fact checked and added my own analysis and interpretation. All that being said, I would recommend caution about puffery and superlatives sourced to trade publications. I would say that trade publications are fine for statements of fact, and in depth, significant coverage of a topic in a relevant trade publication can help establish notability of niche topics. But these sources should be used with caution, and with an understanding of the reputation and reliability of the specific publication. Not all trade publications are created equal. Aviation Week & Space Technology has more rigorous standards than "Joe's Pizza Parlor News". I made up the second one, but I hope you get my point.  Cullen 328  Let's discuss it  03:45, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

How do I put a cover on a Wikipedia book?
How do I put a cover on a Wikipedia book? There's no button to add one, but it keeps bugging me anyway. If you're interested, the book in question is User:XndrK/Books/Chess.

Thanks.

--XndrK (talk) 21:56, 21 May 2013 (UTC)


 * Saved book has a parameter to use an image file for the cover. You can look at the template documentation for help on how to add the picture. — Mike moral  ♪♫  22:12, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

There is a message saying my article has multiple issues?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Vatikiotis I submitted this article a few weeks ago and used the online help to speak to experts. They reviewed by article, suggested a couple of changes and then said it was good to go. Now I have a message saying my article has multiple issues? What are these issues so i can improve the article? Thanks for any help. Mike Michaelleach (talk) 18:09, 21 May 2013 (UTC)


 * I found two other articles that mention him so I added links there and removed the Orphan tag. The tag about the Lead I'm not really sure about. The editor who added it didn't leave an explanation on the Talk page for why they tagged it. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 18:32, 21 May 2013 (UTC)


 * The lead has been changed to fit Wikipedia style since the Lead tag was added, so it can be removed. Editors who look at new pages have so many to cover that they don't tend to put in any more information than given by the tag. The tag does have a link to Manual of Style/Layout but a link to Manual of Style/Lead section would be better. StarryGrandma (talk) 20:18, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

Where do Teahouse answers go?
I recently asked a question on editing etiquette, and now cannot find it or any answers. I assumed it wold be on the current page, as older questions and answers are, but no. Any ideas?OsmNacht (talk) 07:35, 21 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Just above the table of contents on the right side of this page is a box filled with numbers - this is the archive for the Teahouse Q&A board. By typing terms into the search box underneath (a short phrase you remember using in your question, for example) you can run a search of the archive, which should find what you're looking for. Yunshui 雲 &zwj; 水  07:36, 21 May 2013 (UTC)


 * I've tried that, but unfortunately the only phrase I can remember is from the summary of the question, and that produces no results. OsmNacht (talk) 07:48, 21 May 2013 (UTC)
 * That's a bit of a problem - unfortunately you clearly weren't using your account (or the IP under which you previously posted this question), since neither has a contribution history that shows any prior edits to the Teahouse. I'd guess you were on another IP (in which case there's not much I can do to help), but if you were editing under another account at the time, you can check that account's edit history (plug the account name into this page) and cross-reference the dates and times with the Teahouse's page history. Otherwise - I recommend you ask the question again! There's plenty of folk around who'll be happy to supply you with another answer. Yunshui 雲 &zwj; 水  08:01, 21 May 2013 (UTC)


 * I have no idea what went wrong, but your solution is clearly the practical one. My question was only about the etiquette of a delay between suggesting an edit on the Talk Page, and then implementing it oneself. I have since gathered that the rule is "Shoot first and ask questions later", so I'll do that. Many thanks for your helpOsmNacht (talk) 08:11, 21 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Pretty much, yes. The procedure you're after is Bold, revert, discuss - basically, you make the edit, if someone disagrees they can revert it, after that the two of you have a conversation about it. Best of luck. Yunshui 雲 &zwj; 水  08:25, 21 May 2013 (UTC)