Wikipedia:Teahouse/Questions/Archive 1208

Stjepan Miletić
I recently created the Stjepan Miletić page, but it doesn't link to any of the other language pages that exist, such as hr:Stjepan Miletić. I don't like using the translate option when I create pages from Croatian Wikipedia, so I avoid it. When I created the page for Milan Ogrizović, a very charitable Wikipedian fixed the issue for me, but I would like to know how to do it from now on so that I could avoid having to bother another for help. TL;DR: How do I link a Croatian language Wikipedia page on a topic to the English language one I created? Thanks in advance! ThaesOfereode (talk) 03:07, 30 November 2023 (UTC)


 * @ThaesOfereode: Welcome to the Teahouse! Here are the steps you can follow:
 * Go to hr:Stjepan Miletić
 * Find the Wikidata link, which is called "Stavka na Wikipodatcima"
 * At the top right of the Wikidata page is a list of 5 entries for Wikipedias with an article about Miletić. Click the "edit" link.
 * A new entry is created at the bottom of this section. Enter "en" in the wiki field and "Stjepan Miletić" in the other field.  Then click "publish".
 * Go to the English Wikipedia article for Stjepan Miletić. At the top right, confirm that it now links to the other 5 Wikipedias you saw on Wikidata.
 * Happy editing! GoingBatty (talk) 03:19, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Awesome! Thank you so much for your help! ThaesOfereode (talk) 12:52, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
 * You can also do this directly on en-wiki, which is usually how I do it. Go to where the language options are and there should be an "add links" button (or similar, depending on your default wikipedia skin). Click that, fill out the brief form, double-check that the article title was linked correctly (ie, that you haven't accidentally made a link between two different Stjepan Miletićs), and accept the change. -- asilvering (talk) 23:00, 1 December 2023 (UTC)

Opinion!
Hi recently I have a made a report on the administrators noticeboard regarding a incident. Here is the discussion: here, the issue is not resolved yet and the user has now pasted the same content again. I don't know how correct or accurate this is and since I am not into that particular field I have no idea and I am not going to revert it now. Additionally the user made false claims against me even though I haven't edited anything on those pages till date other than reverting one edit of his that I found in conflict previously with other users.....maybe the user might have been confused with someone else and that's fine, I don't bother much. But my point is even though this incident is in discussion and contested by multiple users in the past why is this person pasting the content again and again? I don't exactly know his motive here on Wikipedia.

Finally I am here to get clarified if this behaviour is accepted on Wikipedia or not. I am still in the phase of learning so I would like to know more about it. Also for clarification: this behaviour here I mean that if pasting the content again even after the previous contests is valid or not. Thank you 456legend  (talk) 20:04, 1 December 2023 (UTC)


 * El_C wrote at that archived ANI thread: This user almost certainly is due for sanctions of some severity, but at the same time, you and others who were reverting them at Sakshi (newspaper) had never used the article talk page, either. In fact, at the time of my writing this, Talk:Sakshi (newspaper) has not been used by anyone, ever.
 * I infer from this that any subsequent reports at ANI are unlikely to be fruitful unless you attempt to sort out the content dispute first. My friendly suggestions are as follows:
 * Open a thread on the article talk page and ping the other user.
 * Add a link to the article talk discussion on  user talk page.
 * You may find talkback helpful.
 * Notify relevant WikiProjects by using Please see on the project discussion pages, such as Wikipedia talk:Noticeboard for India-related topics.
 * After you have completed steps one through three: if that yields nothing in a week or so, you can consider other options for dispute resolution. Rotideypoc41352 (talk · contribs) 00:55, 2 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you @Rotideypoc41352 for the clarification. Since I am not involved in the article in any way, I will safely move away from this dispute. 456legend  (talk) 03:06, 2 December 2023 (UTC)

How can I upload my blog on wikipedia
I didn't understand the qwikipedia poluicy can you help me to understand it and how can i submit my article. Sadique Chandio (talk) 20:12, 1 December 2023 (UTC)


 * What do you mean upload your blog? We don't generally use blogs as sources. Babysharkboss2 was here!!  ( Shine on you ) ( Crazy Diamond ) 20:19, 1 December 2023 (UTC)


 * See WP:YFA. It is unlikely your blog is notable, so unlikely it can be uploaded. See WP:N. --Tagishsimon (talk) 20:20, 1 December 2023 (UTC)
 * @Sadique Chandio: Welcome to the Teahouse! Wikipedia is not an appropriate place to host your blog - see WP:NOTBLOG. GoingBatty (talk) 20:30, 1 December 2023 (UTC)
 * 2NumForIce on The Go 20:37, 1 December 2023 (UTC) (edited 20:44, 1 December 2023 (UTC)&#58; indentation)
 * @Sadique Chandio If you intend to use ChatGPT or similar to draft articles, you are going to have to teach it how to quote sources. There is useful guidance here. We don't permit essays, which is how your draft currently reads. Mike Turnbull (talk) 20:57, 1 December 2023 (UTC)
 * @Sadique Chandio: I suggest you do NOT use ChatGPT or similar to draft articles, because they won't accurately quote the sources. Instead, gather the published reliable sources yourself and summarize what they say. GoingBatty (talk) 21:49, 1 December 2023 (UTC)

Do not resubmit until your draft is in Wikipedia format and all information is verified by references. David notMD (talk) 05:33, 2 December 2023 (UTC)

Demographic detail
On Frederick, Kansas: is this level of demographic detail appropriate for a settlement with less than 20 people? Kk.urban (talk) 06:51, 2 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Good question, Kk.urban. No, it's meaningless and ludicrous. -- Hoary (talk) 06:55, 2 December 2023 (UTC)
 * What should be done about this? Technically, the US Census Bureau has the same amount of information about this settlement as any other city, but it does seem pointless. I don't know what should remain, or if there is some other group to discuss this with (WikiProject United States or something?) Kk.urban (talk) 07:01, 2 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Although it is somewhat absurd, it might be easier to leave it be. At the least, you'd have to come up with a heuristic linking population with extent of demographic detail: what size of population qualifies an article for such detail, at what population size should such detail be removed? On the face of it, the WP community has already discussed this sort of thing as part of the Rambot controversy, ~20 years ago. Frederick, Kansas is a Rambot article. --Tagishsimon (talk) 07:14, 2 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Ok, good points. It is now three years past the 2020 census, for which the same information is available, yet there has been no concerted effort to add it. What kind of information does Wikipedia actually want here? And should 2000 and 2010 data remain simply because that's when Wikipedia was created? Kk.urban (talk) 07:31, 2 December 2023 (UTC)
 * This kind of thing also gets ported to other Wikipedias and external websites. For example, I am doing a mass update of US places in the Simple English Wikipedia. Kk.urban (talk) 07:35, 2 December 2023 (UTC)
 * It is ideal to have historic data in articles; it's probably possible to condense the text somewhat. But WP is nowhere near ideal; it lacks much of the (pre-2000) data that cannot easily be accessed by bots, and as you observe, lacks anyone to curate this article, let alone the tens of thousands of other articles. So I don't have a good answer for you, just a bad answer, which is that you should not be hasty about jettisoning information because it is not current. Meanwhile EN WP is not responsible for downstream uses of its data. If Simple EN wikipedia takes from EN wikipedia, so be it; EN wikipedia should not tailor its articles just because that happens. --Tagishsimon (talk) 07:43, 2 December 2023 (UTC)
 * I was amused by the spurious precision of sentences like "There were 7 households, out of which none had children under the age of 18 living with them, 57.1% were married couples living together, and 42.9% were non-families". Maproom (talk) 08:14, 2 December 2023 (UTC)
 * To be (undeservedly) benevolent to this ridiculous article, I think that almost every article about a place with a population is ridiculous. Podunk, New York is a rare exception, so I'll take nearby Ithaca, New York. This tells us, in all seriousness, that "As of 2020, the city's population was 32,108." The precision is spurious, but it will have plenty of indignant defenders. (Ithaca is also -- very typically of a Wikipedia article -- "Situated on the southern shore of Cayuga Lake in the Finger Lakes region of New York, Ithaca is [blah blah]"; the word "situated" contributes nothing to the sentence, but editors wouldn't be happy about its removal.) -- Hoary (talk) 09:16, 2 December 2023 (UTC)

Is this draft non-notable/WP:TOOSOON?
Hello, (other) Teahouse hosts. It has been some time since I dived into content creation, and I came across a company that has been making news headlines because of its launch of an AI text-to-video model.I wanted to know whether or not this company, Pika Labs, or its model, Pika 1.0, necessarily merits an article. It appears to be covered by multiple reliable sources, so I assume it may meet WP:GNG, but I also wanted to receive some clarification if it was simply too soon to create this draft. Thanks! — 3PPYB6 (T / C / L) — 04:41, 2 December 2023 (UTC)
 * All of the stories seem to revolve around their $55M funding, with a sprinking of the inflated expectations phase of the AI hype cycle. WP:CORPDEPTH cautions against routine stories arising out of funding announcements. I would not be rushing to co-opt wikipedia into their PR blitz. --Tagishsimon (talk) 06:48, 2 December 2023 (UTC)
 * @Tagishsimon – OK! I will wait and check for further developments—if their model appears to revolutionize the market similar to ChatGPT, I will add the information and the sources promptly and then consider publishing to mainspace, but if the coverage is only ephemeral I will wait until further developments or the draft will be G13'd. Thanks! — 3PPYB6 (T / C / L) — 12:58, 2 December 2023 (UTC)

#invoke:citation/CS1 appearing in citation
i am trying to cite a certain article on a page then this appears. Can you help me? Filipinohere (talk) 12:38, 2 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Which article? David notMD (talk) 13:07, 2 December 2023 (UTC)
 * its on List of earthquakes in 2023, I was trying to cite a Bengali language news article and then noticed that error which I've never experienced before on two years of editing in Wikipedia. Also another citation shows Template:Cite news. Filipinohere (talk) 13:10, 2 December 2023 (UTC)
 * What's happened is that the page is so big that the Post-expand include size has been exceeded. This means that templates will not work past a certain point on the page. NW1223&lt;Howl at me&bull;My hunts&gt; 13:15, 2 December 2023 (UTC)

Tucson International Airport article fix.
Hello and good day. Go to Tucson Int'l Airport article, go to infobox on right, scroll down to Runways, where it says 8,408, column next to it that says convert:invalid number, replace with 2,563 with a line clear through it. Dont know how to correct this. Thank you for your assistance.Theairportman33531 (talk) 14:13, 2 December 2023 (UTC)


 * ✅ The runway 11R/29L is permanently closed and the data syntax is hidden now. Leoneix (talk) 14:23, 2 December 2023 (UTC)

#invoke:navbox/template:navbox appearing in template
On the List of earthquakes in 2023 article, on the bottom of the page, the templates "earthquakes of 2023" and "earthquakes by year" appear. However recently, they have been replaced by linked text that says "Template:Navbox" "#invoke:Navbox" instead. The navbox templates haven't been edited in a while so I think the 2023 earthquakes page is the problem here. My friend also encountered a similar error where a Bengali language citation said "#invoke:citation/CS1", which I somehow manage to fix. What's the problem behind the navbox error and how can it be fixed? Quake1234 (talk) 14:27, 2 December 2023 (UTC)
 * See that next-to-last thread above this one, titled "#invoke:citation/CS1 appearing in citation". The article contains too many templates for the software to render all of them. Deor (talk) 14:39, 2 December 2023 (UTC)

image for earthscraper page
i made a page on earthscrapers and i was hoping to add an image taken from this article, and i do not want to violate any fair use rules. I have gotten pretty good at knowing how and when fair use applies in the case of movie posters or book covers, but i am still quite novice at this when it comes to just images found online like this. if this can't be used, it can't be used, but i would like to learn if this is possible, what the guidelines are around that. Iljhgtn (talk) 03:23, 2 December 2023 (UTC)
 * See Non-free content. Images from the article you point to cannot be used; mainly, it fails criteria 1: No free equivalent. It is easy to conceive of an equivalent being created. --Tagishsimon (talk) 03:26, 2 December 2023 (UTC)
 * what do you mean an equivalent being created? who could help with that? you mean such as someone graphically designing their own unlicensed work that could go on the page? Iljhgtn (talk) 03:31, 2 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Someone providing a graphic either as a CC0 or CC licenced image, yes. --Tagishsimon (talk) 03:35, 2 December 2023 (UTC)
 * See, for instance, Requested pictures and Graphics Lab. --Tagishsimon (talk) 03:38, 2 December 2023 (UTC)
 * You keep referring to "fair use" by posting things like fair use rules and knowing how and when fair use applies in the case of movie posters or book covers, even though it's been pointed out to you above that "fair use" and "non-free content" aren't exactly the same thing when it comes to Wikipedia. CNN has no problems using the image you've linked to above on their website because they can make a valid fair use claim to do so under US copyright law; Wikipedia, more specifically English Wikipedia, has established its own house policy regarding the use of copyrighted content and this policy is, by design, much more restrictive than fair use. "Fair use" is a concept recognized under US copyright law, but it's not a universal internationally. Some countries follow something called fair dealing, but many countries don't allow such things at all. Similarly, when it comes to Wikimedia Foundation Project's like the various language Wikipedias or Wikimedia Commons, the policy regarding the use of such content varies quite a bit. Some, like Commons, allow zero fair use content as explained here and here, others like English Wikipedia allow such content to be used but with lots of restrictions. So, if you're going to start working in this area of (English) Wikipedia, you'll probably be better off if you avoid using the two terms interchangeably when discussing non-free content use. -- Marchjuly (talk) 09:54, 2 December 2023 (UTC)
 * ah that makes sense. i will say "non-free content" now. Iljhgtn (talk) 16:00, 2 December 2023 (UTC)

Why can't we start a discussion on some Talk pages?
Some Talk pages don't have a "Start a discussion" button. Instead they have a "Read as Wiki page" in the bottom. Aminabzz (talk) 18:22, 2 December 2023 (UTC)


 * You should probably report this to the technical team. I’ve never seen any talk page like this. Equalwidth (C) 19:01, 2 December 2023 (UTC)
 * @Equalwidth They are talking about the mobile web layout.
 * @Aminabzz If the talk page is a red link, you will get a start dicussion message, if not, you should get a 'Add topic' button just above 'read as wiki page' which should allow you to start a discussion thread. Sohom (talk) 19:38, 2 December 2023 (UTC)


 * Please provide a link to the pages you are reporting a problem with. RudolfRed (talk) 19:35, 2 December 2023 (UTC)
 * https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:1969_Nobel_Prize_in_Literature
 * This is one of them Aminabzz (talk) 19:56, 2 December 2023 (UTC)
 * I see an "Edit" icon near the top of the page. I think you can use that to start a new section, but I never use the mobile interface.   RudolfRed (talk) 19:59, 2 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Aminabzz (talk) 20:07, 2 December 2023 (UTC)

Added biographical data that was removed
Hi. I added biographical data to a page but it was removed. I don't understand why. OraGordon (talk) 03:38, 1 December 2023 (UTC)


 * @OraGordon it would help if you could show us the edit you're concerned about. -- asilvering (talk) 03:55, 1 December 2023 (UTC)


 * Presumably this diff. You are adding inline external links (in this edit, in your Kindertransport. These are not permitted per WP:EL. I guess the Deborah Oppenheimer could be added with a reference, possibly Help:Referencing for beginners will help, idk. The Kindertransport Association external link is already listed in the external links section at the foot of the page. --Tagishsimon (talk) 04:27, 1 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you. Yes, that's correct. That was the paragraph. Am I permitted to add that detail without the external link? OraGordon (talk) 18:06, 1 December 2023 (UTC)
 * @OraGordon Yes, provided you still cite the source at the URL. Using the template cite web will work fine (see the template link for the parameters needed). Mike Turnbull (talk) 20:20, 1 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you very much for your response and guidance in this matter. Take care. OraGordon (talk) 21:04, 2 December 2023 (UTC)
 * I've re-added the content with a properly formatted citation to the article yesterday; so, there's nothing more you need to do. -- Marchjuly (talk) 22:20, 1 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you very much for your response and help in this matter. Take care. OraGordon (talk) 21:04, 2 December 2023 (UTC)

Volga
Someone is going in and changing incorrectly to Volga German page and Juan Ciscomonni page! How do I stop that? Also a Chinese lobbyist, Urban, changed incorrectly! USA forefather founder Col. Southworth (talk) 19:02, 2 December 2023 (UTC)


 * Please create a separate post, you are technically posting under “Why can't we start a discussion on some Talk pages?”. Equalwidth (C) 19:04, 2 December 2023 (UTC)


 * I added a new heading. RudolfRed (talk) 19:35, 2 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Appears that IP 139.192.22.172 removed content twice from Volga Germans and it was restored and the editor warned. I did not see evidence of vandalism at Juan Ciscomani. Your May 2023 edits to that article were reverted as not referenced and not neutral point of view. David notMD (talk) 21:05, 2 December 2023 (UTC)

Does Wikipedia permit Bing Chat/Copilot text in its pages
I have been reading about tACS, which does not yet have a Wikipedia page. It is like playing back an EEG into the brain. I'd like to make this page, but I think Bing chat Copilot would do a better job, with more journal article references. Can I do that? 2600:6C55:6400:7C81:5C77:F887:B484:49D9 (talk) 21:06, 2 December 2023 (UTC)
 * You should not. See Large_language_models for guidance. RudolfRed (talk) 21:08, 2 December 2023 (UTC)
 * It is not, for many reasons, including the fact that large language models cannot be trusted to represent their sources intelligently or coherently, as well as legally, getting into issues of potential copyright violation. See WP:LLM for an essay that discusses how Wikipedia policies interact with this. Remsense  留  21:08, 2 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Got it! NwanyiB (talk) 21:30, 2 December 2023 (UTC)

political
Is it possible that some wikipedians are using their personal perspective to delete topics they think are not according to their view of the world? I am asking this, as an article that is published in the Dutch section without much sources was accepted, while it was denied after I translated it into english by a person who comes from a culture opposite to the culture of the topic. See the bottom of this page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Basvossen Basvossen (talk) 22:41, 1 December 2023 (UTC)


 * Basvossen, many people edit Wikipedia with a bias. However, in this case, the article, Draft:Livin' Blues did not have any sources and was moved to draftspace because of that. A perfectly valid reason. You may have thought that, since the Dutch Wikipedia had the article, English Wikipedia should have the same. Unfortunately, the two Wikipedias are separate projects and have separate standards of inclusion in the encyclopedia. Please read the Your First Article page, as most of the content in your article right now is unacceptable. Sungodtemple (talk &#8226; contribs) 23:00, 1 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Along with the above, I would be remiss not to point out that your comment about "who comes from a culture opposite to the culture of the topic" is both meaningless and incredibly rude, and to me clearly counts as a personal attack, the likes of which are not tolerated here. Remsense  留  23:03, 1 December 2023 (UTC)
 * I didn't have any idea what it could mean, until I went to the draftifying editor's userpage. Now I have an idea, and it isn't good; it goes far beyond personal attack. Basvossen, please don't make comments like this on Wikipedia. -- asilvering (talk) 23:09, 1 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Scrolling up their talk page, I see it's not the first such comment they've made, either. -- asilvering (talk) 23:15, 1 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Is it possible that some wikipedians are using their personal perspective to delete topics they think are not according to their view of the world? while it is possible, its bias and highly discouraged. Babysharkboss2 was here!!  ( talk to me! ) ( Slim Shady ) 21:48, 2 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Is it possible that some wikipedians are using their personal perspective to delete topics they think are not according to their view of the world? while it is possible, its bias and highly discouraged. Babysharkboss2 was here!!  ( talk to me! ) ( Slim Shady ) 21:48, 2 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Is it possible that some wikipedians are using their personal perspective to delete topics they think are not according to their view of the world? while it is possible, its bias and highly discouraged. Babysharkboss2 was here!!  ( talk to me! ) ( Slim Shady ) 21:48, 2 December 2023 (UTC)

I have indefinitely blocked Basvossen for repeated misconduct of various kinds. Cullen328 (talk) 04:11, 2 December 2023 (UTC)

date a new article is reviewed
i added the gadget that lets me see when a new article is reviewed, now it has a little green checkmark next to the article title when its reviewed, but if i was curious about the actual date and time that an article is reviewed after the fact, is that another gadget? how culd i learn that information? Iljhgtn (talk) 18:00, 2 December 2023 (UTC)
 * You can find the date it was reviewed using Special:Log. I have a userscript, I believe it is Twinkle, that adds a link to the page log to the top of every page. -- Maddy from Celeste (WAVEDASH) 18:46, 2 December 2023 (UTC)
 * i have twinkle, but i dont see what you are referring to. Iljhgtn (talk) 21:54, 2 December 2023 (UTC)
 * For me there is a tab at the top of each page called "Page", upon clicking which one of the options that appears is "Page logs". Might be another gadget or script providing these then. -- Maddy from Celeste (WAVEDASH) 21:57, 2 December 2023 (UTC)

Page Review
I made this article - Mickey Charles - in September, but it never shows up on Google when searched for. Can an administrator review it, so it shows up? Thanks! Pennsylvania2 (talk) 18:17, 2 December 2023 (UTC)
 * ✅ Theroadislong (talk) 18:26, 2 December 2023 (UTC)
 * i have a couple as well: Earthscraper, The Foundation for Harmony and Prosperity, and maybe another i'd need to check. Iljhgtn (talk) 22:08, 2 December 2023 (UTC)

Deleted articule
Hi. I updated my boss info, but you guys think something is wrong or not true about it. So the info was not updated. I would like to know what is exactly wrong or what should I fix. DEBBI B 02 (talk) 02:12, 1 December 2023 (UTC)
 * See WP:COI. Don't edit the article. Make suggestions on the talk page; provide reliable sources per WP:RS for your uggested changes. --Tagishsimon (talk) 02:27, 1 December 2023 (UTC)
 * @DEBBI B 02 There is a useful essay at WP:BOSS which you should read carefully and maybe show to him. Mike Turnbull (talk) 10:06, 1 December 2023 (UTC)
 * @DEBBI B 02, the most important thing you need to do is to provide published, reliable sources that support the information you want to add. Information that comes directly from you or from your boss without a source is not acceptable. You will also need to significantly tone down the promotional language like "has carved an illustrious career as a versatile and accomplished musician, leaving an indelible mark on the mexican music industry through his multifaceted talents", which is totally inappropriate for an encyclopedia. But the most important thing is to find sources. CodeTalker (talk) 05:35, 2 December 2023 (UTC)
 * This is really clear.
 * Thanks a lot. DEBBI B 02 (talk) 22:14, 2 December 2023 (UTC)

Comparison
Can anyone make a comparison of the following two articles based on their quality, source, info, number of images etc?---

Jasprit Bumrah and Mohammed Shami Red Round Thing (talk) 04:29, 2 December 2023 (UTC)


 * Hi @Red Round Thing, welcome to teahouse. I don't get the reason to compare the articles. Both the articles are well written and cite reliable sources. If you have any other query, let us know. Leoneix (talk) 04:39, 2 December 2023 (UTC)
 * The current ratings of Stub and Start respectively are outdated. Both should be at least C-class. David notMD (talk) 09:15, 2 December 2023 (UTC)
 * @David notMD: I changed both to C-class. Someone else can assess for B class if they like. GoingBatty (talk) 23:21, 2 December 2023 (UTC)

Color of Blond
Is there a reason why the color blond https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blond is not in the list of colors on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_colors_(alphabetical)? Beatles777! (talk) 23:33, 2 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Hello, . Presumably, it is because blond is used to describe the color of hair, whereas the list is of color names in more general usage. You can raise the question at Talk:List of colors (alphabetical) if you wish. Cullen328 (talk) 23:57, 2 December 2023 (UTC)

why is it not showing my impact?
i've gone into my homepage 3 times today, yet it still isn't showing

Abdullah raji (talk) 05:47, 1 December 2023 (UTC)


 * What do you mean? The context of this is unclear. Equalwidth (C) 05:55, 1 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Well, now it's working; anyways, if you don't know, it basically shows your stats in context of the wider project (sorry for my bad wording) Abdullah raji (talk) 06:02, 1 December 2023 (UTC)
 * For the curious, Special:Impact works for all users. Rotideypoc41352 (talk · contribs) 08:17, 1 December 2023 (UTC)
 * I see a white square with the words "Your impact" in the top left corner. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 08:32, 1 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Abdullah raji has "Display newcomer homepage" enabled at the bottom of Special:Preferences. I think it has been enabled by default for new users since it was introduced. It shows Special:Impact and more when you click your username at the top of pages. It works for me. PrimeHunter (talk) 11:30, 1 December 2023 (UTC)
 * I enabled the homepage but "impact" is blank for me there too. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 13:15, 1 December 2023 (UTC)
 * I will confirm it's working for me as well. Might be a Javascript issue? — Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 16:06, 1 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Special:Impact/Gråbergs Gråa Sång also fails for me. I guess the feature doesn't like you. Special:Impact/Abdullah raji, Special:Impact/PrimeHunter and Special:Impact/Tenryuu all work for me. Special:Impact/Gråmunken also works so "å" doesn't break it. PrimeHunter (talk) 16:26, 1 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Perhaps my impact can't be measured with rational means. Your other examples work for me too, btw. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 20:05, 1 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Your Swedish impact is measurable. sv:Special:Impact/Gråbergs Gråa Sång works for me so maybe sv:Special:Impact works for you. PrimeHunter (talk) 21:48, 1 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Hm, it's broken for me as well. I wonder what's causing this. -- asilvering (talk) 00:05, 3 December 2023 (UTC)

Special:Impact/Gråbergs Gråa Sång works now! Rotideypoc41352 (talk · contribs) 16:28, 2 December 2023 (UTC)

These sections about the north korean leaders in the kim dynasty are completly garbarge, do you agree?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kim_family_(North_Korea)#Kim_Il-sung 2601:18B:8081:3220:3CA2:E031:BE02:7318 (talk) 00:08, 3 December 2023 (UTC)


 * Welcome to the Teahouse! The best place to give constructive criticism and suggestions for improvement is the article's talk page: Talk:Kim family (North Korea). GoingBatty (talk) 00:28, 3 December 2023 (UTC)

Formatting for a video game that has changed its name?
I want to try elevating https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Royal_Trap out of Start-class, and had a question before I start editing -- it's now known as "The Confines of the Crown" (per the end of its first paragraph on the article), should the title of the article be changed to suit the new title and "The Royal Trap" be cited as a previous title? CandyGallows (talk) 00:09, 3 December 2023 (UTC)


 * @CandyGallows, I don't think so. It looks to me from the lead that only the Steam version of the game has the new name. -- asilvering (talk) 00:17, 3 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks so much for your time - I've found it under the new name on the developer's website as well as its itch.io version, does that affect anything? Apologies for not sharing initially. CandyGallows (talk) 00:19, 3 December 2023 (UTC)
 * @CandyGallows: Welcome to the Teahouse! The best place to discuss this question is the article's talk page: Talk:The Royal Trap. GoingBatty (talk) 00:23, 3 December 2023 (UTC)
 * @CandyGallows It doesn't change my interpretation of the problem, but that doesn't mean that it wouldn't change someone else's. What should probably happen in either case is a redirect, so that someone looking for "The Confines of the Crown" gets to the right place. I'd just do that myself but it looks like you haven't created a redirect before, so do you want to have a go? WP:R for instructions. (It's much less complicated than the length of that page suggests.) -- asilvering (talk) 00:28, 3 December 2023 (UTC)

COI
Please see my talkpage. User talk:LordVoldemort728 ​​​​​​​𝐋𝐨𝐫𝐝𝐕𝐨𝐥𝐝𝐞𝐦𝐨𝐫𝐭𝟕𝟐𝟖🧙‍♂️Let's Talk ! 07:18, 3 December 2023 (UTC)


 * hi @LordVoldemort728 and welcome to the Teahouse! what are you asking about? &#128156; melecie   talk  - 07:25, 3 December 2023 (UTC)
 * @Melecie First see my talkpage. ​​​​​​​𝐋𝐨𝐫𝐝𝐕𝐨𝐥𝐝𝐞𝐦𝐨𝐫𝐭𝟕𝟐𝟖🧙‍♂️Let's Talk ! 07:25, 3 December 2023 (UTC)
 * How to deal with this editor who is "a member of social media team" of Suryabanshi Suraj? ​​​​​​​𝐋𝐨𝐫𝐝𝐕𝐨𝐥𝐝𝐞𝐦𝐨𝐫𝐭𝟕𝟐𝟖🧙‍♂️Let's Talk ! 07:27, 3 December 2023 (UTC)
 * [[file:Symbol_redirect_vote.svg|16px]] responded over at User talk:LordVoldemort728. happy editing! &#128156; melecie   talk  - 07:55, 3 December 2023 (UTC)

Biography -
How do I upload a new biography for a woman who was outstanding in her time? NwanyiB (talk) 20:24, 2 December 2023 (UTC)
 * You can't upload anything but I would recommend checking out this. GRINCHIDICAE🎄 20:30, 2 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Hello, @NwanyiB, and welcome to the Teahouse! We have a guide at Help:Your first article. Please read and follow it carefully, especially the section "Gathering references and establishing notability". If you are interested in improving Wikipedia's coverage of women, you may be interested in WikiProject Women in Red, a collaboration for exactly that. If you have any questions, don't hesitate to ask here, or on my talk page. Happy editing! -- Maddy from Celeste (WAVEDASH) 20:32, 2 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks much, Maddy. I do have a woman's biography that I would like to upload.  I think this will fit well into Wiki's women's coverage. How can I get this done?  I will check out wikiproject women in red.  Thanks NwanyiB (talk) 21:07, 2 December 2023 (UTC)
 * What exactly do you mean when you say you "have a woman's biography"? If it is a biography someone else has written, you would need to get permission from the author and/or publisher first. If you mean you have written a biography yourself, I would recomment you to follow the guidance at Help:Your first article. -- Maddy from Celeste (WAVEDASH) 21:12, 2 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Seconded. Any piece already written (unless by a very experienced Wikipedian) will almost certainly not be compliant with Wikipedia's requirements of tone, content and source citation, and making it so will likely be a lengthy and frustrating process. Re-publishing verbatim an item already published elsewhere is completely forbidden. Much better to start from scratch, following the advice already linked and using the article creation wizard. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 51.194.245.32 (talk) 10:11, 3 December 2023 (UTC)

Best donation method
I haven’t donated to Wikimedia Foundation in recent memory. This year I want to donate $30 Canadian. I can make a one-time credit card payment, or $2.50 a month all year.

1. If I donate a lump sum, will the foundation lose a smaller portion to service charges?

2. How big a cut do payment processors take? Egmonster (talk) 04:42, 2 December 2023 (UTC)


 * @Egmonster, Kindly note that Teahouse is for getting help for editing Wikipedia. For common donation issues and queries see https://donate.wikimedia.org/wiki/FAQ and if you are facing problems donating, email at donate@wikimedia.org Leoneix (talk) 05:35, 2 December 2023 (UTC)
 * While Leoneix is techniclly correct, none of the FAQs and other directly linked info seems to directly address what Egmonster is asking, except to point to that email adddress (among other info) get answers to these "back-end" types of questions. DMacks (talk) 11:10, 3 December 2023 (UTC)

Sidebar is hiding when a Wikipedia page was last edited and all other writing below it
The Wikipedia Sidebar is now hiding when a Wikipedia page was last edited and all other writing below it, this was not the case a few days ago. 92.24.237.212 (talk) 03:23, 3 December 2023 (UTC)


 * I am not getting what you are trying to say. Consider elaborating your issue. Leoneix (talk) 06:46, 3 December 2023 (UTC)
 * I figured out the problem (not the solution) at Village pump (technical). A long TOC sidebar in Vector 2022 is covering the left part of the page footer. PrimeHunter (talk) 11:31, 3 December 2023 (UTC)

Photo’s “original upload log”
I am trying to edit the original upload log of a photo as it contains the full name of the author, which is incorrect.

I am unable to edit the page as it says I must upload a photo first. Can someone please advise. Thanks. EasyHorse (talk) 11:18, 3 December 2023 (UTC)

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Circumcised_penis_labelled.jpg
 * Hi EasyHorse, welcome to the Teahouse. I have removed the surname from the displayed file page. It can still be found in logs. If you want more suppressed then you need a Commons administrator or oversighter. See commons:Commons:Oversight. PrimeHunter (talk) 11:49, 3 December 2023 (UTC)


 * That's great. Thank you.
 * I'll have a look at the link you shared. EasyHorse (talk) 12:53, 3 December 2023 (UTC)

Incorrect and incomplete entry for me, Benjamin Huberman.
The entry for me -- Benjamin Huberman -- is incorrect and incomplete in several major respects. Is there a way to remedy this? 2601:703:100:FA10:C86A:3237:6C32:1F87 (talk) 17:09, 2 December 2023 (UTC)


 * "Incorrect" and "incomplete" are two separate issues. All entries on all topics are incomplete in all encyclopedias; this is the nature of history.
 * Can you be more specific as to what is incorrect? DS (talk) 17:33, 2 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Wikipedia wants its biographies to be correct and equally is happy to expand them with citations to reliable sources. Advice for article subjects is given at WP:ASFAQ. Specifically, you can make suggestions to improve the article by posting on its Talk Page at Talk:Benjamin Huberman. Since you have a conflict of interest, it is best to use the template edit COI to make suggestions (click the link for details), so that uninvolved editors can decide whether your suggestion fits with our policies, the most important of which in this context is this one. Mike Turnbull (talk) 15:54, 3 December 2023 (UTC)

My mistake!
Hi, I have recently created a new article Mamidala Yashaswini Reddy with respective references but later when linking the article on an another article I found that another article already exists Yashaswini Reddy Mamidala but not developed to the mark compared to mine. So now should I request to delete mine and start developing the other or request to delete the other and let mine be in its place? I am confused, kindly please guide me. Thank you 456legend (talk) 16:20, 3 December 2023 (UTC)  456legend  (talk) 16:20, 3 December 2023 (UTC)


 * I've merged the text so that both articles have exactly the same content. Now please decide what the name of the subject is, and redirect the incorrectly named article to the correctly named article, and if necessary change the name in the text and infobox of the article. Mamidala Yashaswini Reddy vs Yashaswini Reddy Mamidala--Tagishsimon (talk) 16:30, 3 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Hi @Tagishsimon, thank you for the swift response. I have redirected the Yashaswini Reddy Mamidala to Mamidala Yashaswini Reddy. Can you please check if I have performed the redirect properly? Since this is my first time making a redirect I am not sure. 456legend  (talk) 16:42, 3 December 2023 (UTC)
 * All good. On the page that is redirected, all of the other content gets removed, which I've done. --Tagishsimon (talk) 16:46, 3 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Okay thank you very much for the help. 456legend  (talk) 16:51, 3 December 2023 (UTC)

Anything I can do to improve article before submission?
Draft:The Jackson 5 Second National Tour Thealt3786 (talk) 16:33, 3 December 2023 (UTC)


 * @Thealt3786: Welcome to the Teahouse! Three months ago, the first reviewer told you "This draft lacks Reception information, either ticket sales information or reviews by critics."  The personnel section also lacks any references.  Happy editing! GoingBatty (talk) 16:52, 3 December 2023 (UTC)

Help
How does the summary that comes in manual reverting come automatically? MP1999 ❯❯❯  Talk  17:31, 3 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Hi MP1999. The method at your section link does not produce an automatic edit summary. If you revert a single edit with an "undo" link then MediaWiki:Undo-summary is used. If you restore an old version with Twinkle using Twinkle/doc then Twinkle adds an automatic edit summary. If you refer to "your revision will automatically be tagged with (Tag: )" at your link then it's not an edit summary but a tag. It's added automatically by MediaWiki in some situations when it detects a revert. See T256001 for discussion and 609242 for implementation. PrimeHunter (talk) 18:07, 3 December 2023 (UTC)

Handling sources in translation
Hey! I have been thinking a good way to train language skills might be to translate some wiki articles. So, I am trying to translate this article סעד מלכי from Hebrew to English. I noticed that the references in this article are Hebrew-language newspaper clippings, preserved by the National Library of Israel. Can they be used in the English article too? Will this way of referencing work? I inserted my own translation of the title of the article, and referenced it basically the way it is referenced in the Hebrew wiki. In WP:RSUE and WP:TRANSCRIPTION it sounds like in principle this is OK, but since the source is a scanned image I would guess this is hard to verify (one can't just paste the result in to google translate for example). MyOrbs (talk) 19:45, 2 December 2023 (UTC) MyOrbs (talk) 19:45, 2 December 2023 (UTC)


 * Foreign language sources are allowed, but English language sources are preferred. I am not clear on what your citation question is. RudolfRed (talk) 19:57, 2 December 2023 (UTC)
 * I wanted confirmation that the reference I added will be OK, since it feels a bit hard to verify. But it seems to comply with the rules, and you make no complaint, so I will carry on :) MyOrbs (talk) 20:08, 2 December 2023 (UTC)
 * For url use https://www.nli.org.il/he/newspapers/haretz/1923/07/12/01/article/9 with all the extra stuff at the end. RudolfRed (talk) 20:20, 2 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks, indeed its possible to see the full publications as your link does, I used that in cases where the "clipping" only shows a part of an article. And now my draft is done! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:MyOrbs/Saad_Malki
 * I am a bit confused by what happened to the image, I think I messed something up there...(investigating) MyOrbs (talk) 21:37, 2 December 2023 (UTC)
 * You're doing great! I see you're using the content translation tool. That does tend to break some formatting (it's going to break everything a little bit differently depending on the origin wiki), so it's probably not your mistake, actually. Just keep sending your drafts to userspace instead of mainspace like you did for this one, and you'll be able to check anything that screwed up before sending it to mainspace.
 * A warning for you when translating from other wikis: make sure that you're translating something that meets WP:N and WP:V as defined by English Wikipedia. It looks like you picked a good article to start with, so don't worry about this one. I'm warning you pre-emptively because I see a lot of translators get frustrated when their translations get draftified or deleted for insufficient sourcing. -- asilvering (talk) 00:16, 3 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks! How can you see what space the draft is in? I thought it is in my userspace because of the User/MyOrbs in the URL and title. Anyway I submitted the draft for review successfully I think, it seems that moving the draft to the space of drafts is not within my power, so I wait and see :) MyOrbs (talk) 17:14, 3 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Sorry, I meant "userspace, like you did for this one, instead of mainspace". You did the right thing! -- asilvering (talk) 17:47, 3 December 2023 (UTC)
 * I should warn you that your draft might linger in AfC for a bit since we don't (to my knowledge) have any reviewers who can read Hebrew. I posted a cry for help on WP:ISRAEL, so hopefully you don't need to wait too long. By the way, you might be interested in joining that wikiproject, or some other related ones, like WP:JH. WP:WIRED is probably the most active wikiproject and will be a great help if you ever run into trouble writing biographies on women. If you're interested in biographies of Zionists in particular, WP:SOCIALISM (largish, somewhat dormant) and WP:@ (tiny, active) might be of interest too, since many early-20thc nationalists combined those aims with left-wing politics. -- asilvering (talk) 18:17, 3 December 2023 (UTC)

Help With Sourcing An Article
Im having difficulty sourcing an article i wrote as the information is fact however its been collected through visual, audible and small mentions across many off-line sources. its currently been drafted and im stuggling to be able to source it. thank you, link provided: Draft:Ottawa Collegiate Board Weezyinator (talk) 20:50, 3 December 2023 (UTC)


 * @Weezyinator: Welcome to the Teahouse! In order for a Wikipedia article to be created, you must provide multiple independent sources to demonstrate what Wikipedia calls "notability".  The specific notability criteria for organizations can be found at Notability (organizations and companies).  When creating a draft, you should first find the sources, determine whether you can meet the notability criteria, and then write the draft.  See WP:BACKWARD and Help:Your first article for more information.  Happy editing! GoingBatty (talk) 21:09, 3 December 2023 (UTC)
 * @Weezyinator: I also suggest reviewing WP:EASYREFBEGIN to learn how to add a reference. References to off-line sources, as long as they are reliable published sources that are verifiable, such as books, newspapers, and magazines. GoingBatty (talk) 23:04, 3 December 2023 (UTC)

Hanuman page
Hi, I was just reading the Hanuman page and I removed a mention of some specific authors before I hit control+F and saw that one author was mentioned 48 times. I'm sure some of those times are just the bibliography but still, that seems to be way too many times to mention one author. More importantly, authors are typically mentioned in encyclopedia-style writing. Am I missing something? Can someone please explain this to me? Sorry for messaging here if there is somewhere else to ask these type of questions please let me know. Here is the url: Hanuman Thank you. Hemmingweigh (talk) 12:55, 1 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Hemmingweigh, you have already asked about this on the article's talk page. Wait for a few days for responses. -- Hoary (talk) 13:06, 1 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Yes, of course! I will try to be patient. My question on the talk page was about two other authors. This question is about one single author being mentioned in the text of an article numerous times. Looking forward to some input. Hemmingweigh (talk) 16:16, 1 December 2023 (UTC)
 * User:Hemmingweigh, welcome to the Teahouse! Since Wikipedia articles are written by volunteers, sometimes we don't have all the sources available on a topic. If an editor has done a lot of work on an article but only has access to a few high quality sources, it's not uncommon for those sources to be cited very many times. This is especially true for topics where most of the sources are not in English, and editors have relied heavily on one or a few specialist English language treatments. Folly Mox (talk) 13:20, 1 December 2023 (UTC)

Thank you so much for your response Folly Mox. My question is about specifically naming an author. Citing them is understandable but all the encyclopedias I've read do not name authors in the text just cite them. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hemmingweigh (talk • contribs) 16:19, 1 December 2023 (UTC)


 * @Hemmingweigh Part of the problem in Hanuman is that a single book (Lutgendorf, (2007)) is cited dozens of times with different page numbers. One simplification would be to have one single cite book and then use rp to mention the specific pages at each instance in the text. The same book certainly doesn't need to be in "further reading"! An alternative citation style is to have the sources at the end and use the sfn template. I agree that continually mentioning an author's name in the text is unnecessary unless giving an exact quote. Good luck with your tidying-up efforts! Mike Turnbull (talk) 20:14, 1 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Hi Michael, thank you for your input! I was feeling unsure about the rules/norms and so just wanted to confirm that it was in fact not useful to repeat the an authors name so frequently here. Will get to work removing specific mentions of the author's name and then try and clean up the citations afterward if I can figure it out. Thanks again to you and everyone else for addressing my question. Hemmingweigh (talk) 03:58, 4 December 2023 (UTC)

Article unreviewed
Hello! I hope you're doing well. I recently created an article on Harvinder Singh (IAS officer), and a reviewer suggested adding more relevant categories. I addressed the tag, but it's been a week, and the page is still unreviewed. I have NPP rights, but those aren't meant for reviewing my own articles. If any reviewer is here, could you please look into this and mark it as patrolled? Thank you.  ❯❯❯  Chunky aka Al Kashmiri   (✍️) 14:29, 3 December 2023 (UTC)


 * Hi, this isn't likely to speed up the process of a review, nor have you provided a convincing reason why you should be bumped to the front of the queue over everyone else waiting for a NPP. All that said, I'm not entirely clear on what makes him notable- he seems to be an ordinary lower level government official. Admittedly I'm looking at this from a US perspective and the civil service process seems different in India. 331dot (talk) 15:01, 3 December 2023 (UTC)
 * @331dot I am not seeking an immediate review, as I've mentioned that this is one of my recently crafted articles. The previous reviewer left the 'improve categories' tag, and unlike my other articles that usually get reviewed in three to four days, this one has ended up in the backlog. I'm reaching out to inquire if anyone is available to review it. I understand the importance of a thorough review process, and I'm not pressuring anyone to pass it without scrutiny. If the reviewer identifies any issues, feel free to tag them accordingly. I focus on creating articles only on notable subjects. Thank you for your consideration.  ❯❯❯  Chunky aka Al Kashmiri   (✍️) 16:48, 3 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Teahouse Hosts are not necessarily NPP reviewers. If not NPP reviewed, it will be approved automatically at 90 days. Be patient. David notMD (talk) 18:05, 3 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Done, but sorry to say, I was not impressed. I am more concerned, Chunky being an AFC and NPP reviewer. Usedtobecool ☎️ 04:31, 4 December 2023 (UTC)

Retracing one's steps re things edit?
Is there a command that lists the several last articles that you have edited? MountVic127 (talk) 04:20, 4 December 2023 (UTC)


 * @MountVic127: Welcome to the Teahouse! Special:Contributions/MountVic127 is what you're looking for.  Happy editing! GoingBatty (talk) 04:26, 4 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Hi . I don't know whether there is such a command, but there's a contributions history for each account which shows all edits made with the account (excluding edits made to deleted pages) that you can find by scrolling to the top of your browser and clicking on "Contributions" or going to any page in your username space and clicking on "User contributions" in the left sidebar. -- Marchjuly (talk) 04:29, 4 December 2023 (UTC)


 * Thanks all. MountVic127 (talk) 05:16, 4 December 2023 (UTC)
 * @MountVic127 One feature that I use and you may be interested to copy is to transclude (say) your last 10 edits on your UserPage. See mine for how it looks. The sourcecode to achieve this would be  in your case. Mike Turnbull (talk) 11:56, 4 December 2023 (UTC)

Database query error
I'm trying to edit the article Rendcomb College, but on attempting to publish edits I'm getting the error A database query error has occurred. This may indicate a bug in the software. [e4bd566d-211d-4005-a055-d437f53b9ab2] 2023-12-04 11:45:17: Fatal exception of type "Wikimedia\Rdbms\DBQueryError". I have tried making smaller and larger edits to see if it is anything specific in the text that is causing the error, but am getting it on every edit. I am able to publish edits to other articles. Any ideas? Thanks. Tacyarg (talk) 11:47, 4 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Just seen the same question above this - apologies for duplication. I'll leave this up in case it's useful for anyone looking at the problem in general. I have tried closing the tab and re-opening and and still getting the same error. Will try in another browser later. Tacyarg (talk) 11:50, 4 December 2023 (UTC)
 * This has also been reported at Village_pump_(technical) and a Phabricator ticket issued, so, the problem is not at your end, but at Wikipedia's end, and it will be looked at in due course. - Arjayay (talk)
 * Thank you, Arjayay. Tacyarg (talk) 12:04, 4 December 2023 (UTC)

Reporting ERRORS on en.wikipedia.org
About 20+ minutes ago, I got an error (but didn't capture it) when posting my edit for Cedar Vale, Kansas article, I waited then reposted my changes, then my changes seem to have be accepted. Next, I edited Chautauqua, Kansas article, then I received the following error. At this point, I stopped editing, I posted a comment in HELP, but no one answered, so I decided to come over here and post this comment. --- '''Database error / A database query error has occurred. This may indicate a bug in the software. / [ca5a6cfa-399f-4028-b508-2a9b98eec5f8] 2023-12-04 08:59:11: Fatal exception of type "Wikimedia\Rdbms\DBQueryError"''' --- • Sbmeirow  •  Talk  • 09:07, 4 December 2023 (UTC)
 * @Sbmeirow I too faced this error while publishing edits in an article few hours ago. I closed the tab and tried it again and it worked fine. Leoneix (talk) 09:12, 4 December 2023 (UTC)
 * I have encountered this issue two more times since my above reply. Leoneix (talk) 11:53, 4 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Same story here. Error message popped out while I was just editing articles. Any updates on this? hundenvonPG (talk) 13:25, 4 December 2023 (UTC)
 * This has also been reported at Village_pump_(technical) and a Phabricator ticket issued, so, the problem is not at your end, but at Wikipedia's end, and it will be looked at in due course. - Arjayay (talk) 11:57, 4 December 2023 (UTC)

Appropriate for bio article?
Hello, having written an article about a deaf actress, I learned that she offers online courses for American Sign Language with a commercial provider of such courses. Question: is it appropriate to involve this information and possibly the link to the site of this provider into the article?Article: Sandra Mae Frank, Site: Bernhard.rulla (talk) 13:15, 4 December 2023 (UTC)
 * @Bernhard.rulla Putting advert links is not allowed. Also the info you wanted to add in the article is not required. See WP:PROMO Leoneix (talk) 13:24, 4 December 2023 (UTC)
 * @Leoneix Got it, thanks! Bernhard.rulla (talk) 13:27, 4 December 2023 (UTC)

Publishing a page
How can I get this page approved -https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:Tom_Harb ieverything is disclosed but how do I get the page approved while following the guidlines Elijahwordpress (talk) 13:10, 4 December 2023 (UTC)
 * @Elijahwordpress The draft is up for review and it might take reviewers weeks to review it. Please be patient. Leoneix (talk) 13:13, 4 December 2023 (UTC)


 * Elijahwordpress, a sample: Being an organization that represents the aspirations of millions of people -- any people -- is a huge claim. Being a pivotal organization that does so sounds at first like an even huger claim. Where are the reliable sources for this immense claim? But then it occurs to me: What does "pivotal" actually mean here? I've no idea. Perhaps nothing. It sounds merely promotional. -- Hoary (talk) 13:26, 4 December 2023 (UTC)
 * @Elijahwordpress: Agreed that "pivotal" (as well as "crucial") sound promotional. Most of the references are primary sources, and there is no reference for the "World Council of the Cedars Revolution" section. GoingBatty (talk) 15:06, 4 December 2023 (UTC)

How do i move a plane to retired
Hi i was wonder how i could move the Conroy Skymonster to retired spot from active duty. since all the sourse i have found point it to no longer being airworthy.

Ghostpepper111111 (talk) 15:14, 4 December 2023 (UTC)


 * @Ghostpepper111111: Welcome to the Teahouse! I see the infobox in the Conroy Skymonster article states the status is retired.  If you see an article that you cannot update yourself, I suggest that you post an edit request on the article's talk page, along with the sources you have found.  Happy editing! GoingBatty (talk) 15:25, 4 December 2023 (UTC)

Global Campus of Human Rights page
Hi I need help with this page, [[[Draft:The Global Campus of Human Rights]], I can't understand what's wrong with the references, could you help me please? Knightsculture (talk) 15:50, 4 December 2023 (UTC)


 * @Knightsculture: Welcome to the Teahouse! To learn how to fix the reference format on Draft:The Global Campus of Human Rights, I recommend watching the short video at WP:EASYREFBEGIN.  Happy editing! GoingBatty (talk) 15:52, 4 December 2023 (UTC)

Can someone help?
So I got this message about COI editing on a page. They were asking me to fix it, but it's a page about an air force. And it looks like someone locked the page, and I can't really tell what they meant by COI or advertising, and they haven't replied. help??! I'm confused. Babysharkboss2 was here!! ( Talk to me! ) ( Slim Shady ) 15:46, 4 December 2023 (UTC)


 * Also, checking the IP's profile, his/her only edit was that request, and then they got banned, so now I'm even more confused. Babysharkboss2 was here!!  ( Talk to me! ) ( Slim Shady ) 15:50, 4 December 2023 (UTC)
 * @Babysharkboss2 The IP editor appears to have been pleading with you to remove the COI tag at the top of an article which they can't do themselves as it is locked to IP edits. I suggest you ignore the request: I don't know why they chose you to ask. Mike Turnbull (talk) 16:17, 4 December 2023 (UTC)

Opinion based Edit which I removed was undone
According [|to this article], India who hosted the 2023 ICC cricket world was under sportwashing and the source that has been put up for it is an opinion piece done by the Guardian [|(the website heading itself says that it's an opinion and not a news)]. According to the byrules of Wiki, opinions can't be used as sources on wikipedia. And The Guardian is full of opinions against India. 2. All the cricket playing full members are supposed to host at least ICC event this decade. It's not like India went ahead and forced everyone to award them with the tournament. It has a democratically elected system which decides the hosts. Therefore, my edit should be considered and not be removed.

205.254.171.139 (talk) 18:26, 4 December 2023 (UTC)


 * Well, only up to a point, That something is sportswashing is always going to be an opinion, not a fact. WP:RSEDITORIAL permits newspaper editorials - which was what the source here was - to back up statements of opinions in WP. "Editorial commentary, analysis and opinion pieces, whether written by the editors of the publication (editorials) or outside authors (invited op-eds and letters to the editor from notable figures) are reliable primary sources for statements attributed to that editor or author, but are rarely reliable for statements of fact." So perhaps the only question here is whether the sportswashing article should be doing more to specify that it is in the opinion of The Guardian that the 2023 ICC match is an instance of sportswashing, than merely the reference to the Guardian opinion article. --Tagishsimon (talk) 18:39, 4 December 2023 (UTC)
 * There is also an article in The Hindu about the same topic of sportswashing in 2023 CWC https://www.thehindu.com/society/icc-mens-cricket-world-cup-2023-india-modi-political-spectacle-win-win/article67334081.ece (paywall in place) Leoneix (talk) 18:44, 4 December 2023 (UTC)

Not sure what to do about a weird situation at Animal model of autism
This article has four good-sized paragraphs starting at Animal model of autism where there are no sources cited, but instead there are weird little superscript numbers that don't point to a citation. At first I wondered if this was a sign of copy-vio, and someone had simply copied across a chunk of a review article from somewhere, complete with its citations. But looking back, it appears to be the work of a one-edit editor in this diff: I suspect it's someone who had no idea how our referencing works. The format of these paragraphs went all wrong producing something that reeks of copy-vio, but this was subsequently reformatted so it now looks normal. But the funny little superscript numbers are still there, and the references that they might or might not have pointed to don't seem to be. Any suggestions on what should be done about this? Given that autism research is a highly controversial (and medical) subject, I'm half inclined to delete these paragraphs unless they can be properly substantiated. But they may be correct and supportable by the sources in the diff. Elemimele (talk) 13:12, 4 December 2023 (UTC)
 * I guess we need to check the content with the respective references as indicated by superscripts. (it would be a lengthy task) If it can't be verified, action must be taken. I hope someone has some easier solution. Leoneix (talk) 13:18, 4 December 2023 (UTC)
 * This is the edit in which all of that was added. So perhaps the refs added in that edit correspond to the superscript text-numbers? But it only added four refs whereas the added text has ref-numbers 1–5, so it is not as simple as a whole self-contained chunk being dropped in with poor formatting. User:Asl1021 made that as their only edit over three years ago. DMacks (talk) 14:07, 4 December 2023 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure if I've got access to any of those refs and won't get a chance to look until next weekend. Annoying! Elemimele (talk) 17:00, 4 December 2023 (UTC)
 * I do have access to all of them, but they're rather technical, in an area far outside my primary expertise, and I don't have time to read through them properly, but with some keyword searching, I found some statements that seem to be relevant, which I listed below with the sources they cite, if any. Let me know if there's anything else you'd like me to search for, and I'll try to remember to do it when I get a chance.
 * "autism risk factors include [...] exposure to high levels of environmental pollutants, including heavy metals. [cites both] [...] A recent study determined that rates of autism spectrum disorders were higher in areas with greater hazardous air pollutant concentrations, which included the heavy metal mercury. [cites the second]" (Moy et al. 14)
 * Palmer RF, Blanchard S, Stein Z, Mandell D, Miller C. Environmental mercury release, special education rates, and autism disorder: an ecological study of Texas. Health Place 2006; 12: 203–209.
 * Windham GC, Zhang L, Gunier R, Croen LA, Grether JK. Autism spectrum disorders in relation to distribution of hazardous air pollutants in the San Francisco bay area. Environ Health Perspect 2006; 114: 1438–1444.
 * Moy mentions "serotonin" and "serotonergic" 26 times, excluding references.
 * "Several reports have linked serotonin to autism [citations linked from here], and in rats, thalidomide exposure at embryonic day 9 (E9) causes increased plasma, hippocampal, and frontal cortex serotonin. Abnormal development of the serotonin system in this animal model implicates agents that alter serotonin in early development as possible environmental contributors to autism." (Gadad et al. 6-7)
 * D. Hranilovic, Z. Bujas-Petkovic, R. Vragovic, T. Vuk, K. Hock, and B. Jernej, “Hyperserotonemia in adults with autistic disorder,” Journal of Autism and Developmental Disorders, vol. 37, no. 10, pp. 1934–1940, 2007.
 * J. Piven, G. Tsai, E. Nehme, J. T. Coyle, G. A. Chase, and S. E. Folstein, “Platelet serotonin, a possible marker for familial autism,” Journal of Autism and Developmental Disorders, vol. 21, no. 1, pp. 51–59, 1991.
 * "As with thalidomide, VPA exposure on E9 causes hyperserotonemia in the mouse hippocampus, frontal cortex, and cerebellum." (Gadad et al. 7)
 * G. Williams, J. King, M. Cunningham, M. Stephan, B. Kerr, and J. H. Hersh, “Fetal valproate syndrome and autism: additional evidence of an association,” Developmental Medicine and Child Neurology, vol. 43, no. 3, pp. 202–206, 2001.
 * "Following viral infection, the immune response leads to the production of various cytokines, such as interleukins (IL)-1, -2 and -6 which influence the release of monoamines such as serotonin in the hippocampus and other brain regions." (Gadad et al. 7-8)
 * J. E. Libbey, T. L. Sweeten, W. M. McMahon, and R. S. Fujinami, “Autistic disorder and viral infections,” Journal of NeuroVirology, vol. 11, no. 1, pp. 1–10, 2005.
 * "In a recent study, Kong and colleagues found that sperm from older men contain more DNA mutations compared to sperm from young men, and these mutations are commonly found in their autistic offspring." (Gadad et al. 7)
 * A. Kong, M. L. Frigge, G. Masson, G. S et al., “Rate of de novo mutations and the importance of father’s age to disease risk,” Nature, vol. 488, pp. 471–475, 2012.
 * "Six autism-related genes, linked to the X-chromosome, have been identified in autism. These genes are the Fragile X mental retardation gene (Fmr1), methyl-CpG-binding protein type 2 gene (MECP2), neuroligin (NLGN) 3 and 4 genes, and tuberous sclerosis genes (TSC1 and TSC2). In addition, mutations in the DLX, Reelin, Engrailed, and PTEN genes also result in autism phenotypes and neuropathology. " (Gadad et al. 5)
 * "In mouse models with MeCp2 disruption, the animals are normal until about 16 weeks of age (a mouse typically is mature by 4 weeks and dies at 2-3 years) after which they exhibit enhanced anxiety in the open field, reduced nest building, and aberrant social interactions." (Gadad et al. 5)
 * M. Chahrour and H. Y. Zoghbi, “The story of Rett syndrome: from clinic to neurobiology,” Neuron, vol. 56, no. 3, pp. 422–437, 2007.
 * "Comoletti and colleagues found that these NLGN3 and 4 mutations lead to loss of neuroligin processing for stimulating the formation of synapses." (Gadad et al. 5)
 * D. Comoletti, A. De Jaco, L. L. Jennings et al., “The Arg451Cys-neuroligin-3 mutation associated with autism reveals a defect in protein processing,” Journal of Neuroscience, vol. 24, no. 20, pp. 4889–4893, 2004.
 * "Tuberous sclerosis (TSC) is a genetic disease sometimes associated with autism-like symptoms in which mutations in one of two TSC genes cause multiple, benign tumors to grow in various tissues including the brain." (Gadad 6)
 * J. R. W. Yates, “Tuberous sclerosis,” European Journal of Human Genetics, vol. 14, no. 10, pp. 1065–1073, 2006.
 * "A recent meta-analysis points to decreased gray matter in the MTL, both the hippocampus and amygdala as well as the posterior medial cortex in autism."
 * Radua, J. et al. (2011) Voxel-based meta-analysis of regional white-matter volume differences in autism spectrum disorder versus healthy controls. Psychol. Med. DOI: 10.1017/S0033291710002187
 * "Initiation of critical periods of brain development may be delayed or accelerated in specific regions exhibiting PV-cell deficits." (Gogolla et al. 176)
 * "We performed a meta-analysis of PV expression in previously published ASD mouse models and analyzed two additional models, reflecting an embryonic chemical insult (prenatal valproate, VPA) or single-gene mutation identified in human patients (Neuroligin-3, NL-3 R451C)." (Gogolla et al. 172)
 * "The physically healthy offspring of pregnant rats treated with a single dose of VPA at an equivalent gestational time point recapitulate the human ASD phenotype." (Gogolla et al. 173)
 * Rinaldi T, et al. Elevated NMDA receptor levels and enhanced postsynaptic long-term potentiation induced by prenatal exposure to valproic acid. PNAS. 2007;104(33):13501–6.
 * Markram K, Rinaldi T, La Mendola D, Sandi C, Markram H. Abnormal fear conditioning and amygdala processing in an animal model of autism. Neuropsychopharmacology. 2008;33 (4):901–12.
 * Solomon Ucko (talk) 19:37, 4 December 2023 (UTC)
 * As for copyvio:
 * https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=956154309&oldid=951337090&title=Animal_model_of_autism is dated 11 May 2020.
 * Searching Google for "Looking at the environmental factors of autistic spectrum disorder in rodents" gives the following results:
 * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_model_of_autism
 * https://www.researchgate.net/publication/350344916_Stress-free_collection_of_continuous_rodent_behaviors_and_ultrasounds_vocalization_data_for_autism_study_and_the_need_for_multi-dimensional_and_multi-functional_measurement_in_pre-clinical_study_for_a, dated March 2021. Does not appear to credit Wikipedia. Footnote markers are non-existent throughout what I checked.
 * The first paragraph of the "Environmental models and factors of ASD" section matches the first two followed by the last two sentences of the "Environmental Factors of ASD" section of the edit, except that "lots of" is replaced with "much", reflecting a later Wikipedia edit by a different user. This and the date are the only clues I identify that it copied Wikipedia, and I don't identify any clues that indicate that Wikipedia copied it.
 * The first paragraph of the "Genetic models and phenotypic factors of ASD" section, except for the first sentence, matches the "Genetic and Phenotypic Factors of ASD" section of the edit, except that "One study" is instead "Researchers", which does not reflect any Wikipedia edit.
 * The first paragraph of the "Lesion models of ASD" section matches the "Human Autism Spectrum Disorder" section of the edit, except that a comma exists after "measures", which does not reflect any Wikipedia edit.
 * The "Neuropathology of the Underdeveloped Synapse" section exactly matches the section of the edit with the same title.
 * The "Neuropathology of GABA Receptors" section matches the section of the edit with the same title, except for the following differences, which do not appear to reflect any Wikipedia edit:
 * "on the spectrum" after "humans"
 * "5" after "GABA", after "in relation to"
 * "is" vs "are", between "communication" and "often"
 * apostrophe after "researchers", between "increases" and "understanding"
 * https://uploads-ssl.webflow.com/64f1af83e36d896066e9638c/6553515dca2347feb614823c_bifudosi.pdf, which appears to be a naive copy-paste of the whole article, and does not appear to give credit.
 * http://www.asu.am/images/stories2/2021/pdf/humanitarnorrr.pdf‚ dated 2021, appears to have an exact copy of the ResearchGate article, but does at least give credit to it.
 * Related note: do you remember why you changed one of the footnote markers in edit 1038774153?
 * Solomon Ucko (talk) 20:28, 4 December 2023 (UTC)

Museum image
I have e-mailed a museum about their pictures of some very old glassware, and they have agreed to let me use some (I'm only going to pick one) of their images (without watermarks) for Wikipedia. What do I need to get from them to prove that I have permission? TwoScars (talk) 19:55, 4 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Have them send an email to following the instructions at c:COM:VRT NW1223&lt;Howl at me&bull;My hunts&gt; 20:01, 4 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Also, good work, TwoScars. Well done. --Tagishsimon (talk) 20:25, 4 December 2023 (UTC)


 * Not sure if this is what you meant, but permission to use the images only on Wikipedia is not sufficient. The permission (license) must allow reuse for any purpose.  RudolfRed (talk) 20:39, 4 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Just sent them another message to make that clear, and linked to an example from the MET. TwoScars (talk) 21:34, 4 December 2023 (UTC)
 * @TwoScars The advice you've had is good. But as a former museum curator myself, I am aware how many of my colleagues in smaller museums fear releasing their images lest they lose some imaginary future income from selling reproduction rights of said image. If the image you want them to upload under a commercial re-use licence from their archive is a high resolution one, you could always suggest that they submit a lower resolution image (suitable for screen display) rather than some high res version that a proper publisher would demand. Of course, the advantages of having images from their collections on Wikipedia should not be underestimated by those professionals. Many big national museums have being done wonderful work in mobilising their collections of images - hopefully yours may follow. Well done in trying to sort this. Regards, Nick Moyes (talk) 22:47, 4 December 2023 (UTC)

is this draft ready to submit
Any suggestions for this draft will be much appreciated: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:Enchantment_(Social_sciences) Leeds-hurwitz (talk) 18:41, 4 December 2023 (UTC)
 * As a wikilink: Draft:Enchantment (Social sciences). --CiaPan (talk) 20:53, 4 December 2023 (UTC)


 * from a somewhat quick glance, it seems... presentable!?
 * there doesn't seem to be much wrong with it, aside from the last phrase of the fourth paragraph and most of the last paragraph not making as much sense as the rest of the draft, and also some minor punctuation hiccups that i fixed (plus a lot that i probably missed), but there's nothing egregiously incoherent, promotional, or a third negative adjective
 * as far as suggestions go, the best i could say would be
 * format it a bit more like an average article. maybe add some sections. your draft on yves could work as a point of reference, and so could the article on thomas vandrew tallarico
 * watch for curly quotes and ending phrases that aren't quotes in quotation marks. per mos:curly and mos:logical respectively, you just don't do that
 * unless a fitting image is already available in commons (and isn't a massive copyright violation), don't worry about adding one before the draft gets accepted
 * space out your sources a bit more. if possible, move some of them around to the sentences they best represent, as opposed to clumping them together every few sentences
 * those nitpicks and the fact that i can't check the sources because i'm too lazy (and possibly broke) to make a doi.org account aside, it seems fine to me  cogsan (give me attention)  (see my deeds) 20:39, 4 December 2023 (UTC)
 * thanks for the feedback - I'll go work on it Leeds-hurwitz (talk) 20:50, 4 December 2023 (UTC)


 * , it looks pretty good, but with one exception that I noticed: Now, "linking A to Y and Z" is extraordinarily vague. (Does the one result from the pair? Does each of the pair result in the one? Does the one subsume the pair? Etc.) I think, well, this is just in the lead, and it's sure to be explained and developed in the body of the article. However, there's no occurrence of any of (regardless of capitalization) the three strings "ritzer", "consumer" and "mcdonald" in the body. So, excuse me for my usual (but not consistent!) disenchantment with sociology, but I'm left wondering why anyone should care whether some sociologist has "linked" the subject to two other concepts. -- Hoary (talk) 23:17, 4 December 2023 (UTC)
 * @Hoary and @Leeds-hurwitz, I have copyedited the sentence to what I believe was the intended meaning. Let me know if it is clearer. NW1223&lt;Howl at me&bull;My hunts&gt; 23:40, 4 December 2023 (UTC)


 * Also - since we're discussing it here - "In the last few years," cannot stand. It's unclear exactly what it means, and it will be out of date, presumably, in a year or two's time. So need to find a way to tie whatever had happened, to a time period - in the late 2010s, or since 2000, or whatever. (Brief mention also for Yves Winkin, which I've just promoted, also by user:Leeds-hurwitz, is arguably an NACADEMIC pass by reason of a (brief) named chair & possibly other criteria (1, 4, 6); but always worth experienced editors giving it a once-over.) --Tagishsimon (talk) 23:50, 4 December 2023 (UTC)
 * I'll sort out "in the last few years" - thanks for noticing that. And much bigger thanks for accepting the Winkin draft! I just wrote back to you inside that, as you no doubt can see. Leeds-hurwitz (talk) 23:57, 4 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Sorry, no, enchantment has not led to consumerism and McDonaldization - I'll go back and try to clarify. Leeds-hurwitz (talk) 23:55, 4 December 2023 (UTC)


 * Any thoughts as to which categories this article should be placed in v.welcome. --Tagishsimon (talk) 00:05, 5 December 2023 (UTC)

How do I challenge an uninvolved administrator's decision not to change date format?
In Nintendo article, it was retained as mdy for 11 years after early January 2004, but an editor unilaterally changed the date format in violation of MOS:DATERET and since then retained that date format for 7 years. And an uninvolved administrator closed a date format discussion, effectively stopping the discussion. The administrator said no consensus to change, so we default to the WP:EDITCON of the last seven years. So, I mainly said on administrator's talk page that mdy should be used based on MOS:NUM (and the WP:EDITCON does not prevent all changes without gaining consensus). The MOS:NUM states that if discussion fails to resolve the question of which style to use in an article, defer to the style used by the first major contributor. The administrator lastly said on the administrator's talk page that the reason mdy shouldn't be used is because you're not even upset about wrong dates, you're upset about how the same dates are written out. According to this administrator's personal opinion, there is no reason for MOS:RETAIN rule to exist. In any case, even if an explicit consensus is not achieved, it should be changed to the first major contributor's date format, according to the MOS:NUM. The WP:EDITCON also does not prevent all changes from violating the rules. I don't want to continue endless arguments with this administrator because Wikipedia is not a democracy, but I would like to challenge this administrator's decision somewhere to change the date format. How do I challenge the administrator's decision not to change the date format? WAccount1234567890 (talk) 05:30, 3 December 2023 (UTC)
 * The relevant statement in MOS:DATEFORMAT is:
 * "If an article has evolved using predominantly one date format, this format should be used throughout the article, unless there are reasons for changing it based on strong national ties to the topic or consensus on the article's talk page."
 * It seems that DMY is based on the 'strong national ties' given that Nintendo is one of the most famous Japanese companies. This is plausible—and personally, this would be my choice, but that's irrelevant here. I am not sure you have read the policy correctly, since you have said that "even if an explicit consensus is not achieved, it should be changed to the first major contributor's date format". This is not what the page appears to say. Remsense  留  05:51, 3 December 2023 (UTC)
 * I am leaving a comment because you wrote as if I misunderstood the rules. The MOS:NUM states that if discussion fails to resolve the question of which style to use in an article, defer to the style used by the first major contributor. I know the "sentence" you're talking about isn't explicitly included, but this actually doesn't require any explicit consensus. WAccount1234567890 (talk) 06:45, 5 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Hi, User:WAccount1234567890, welcome to the Teahouse! Let it go. It's already not worth the editor time that's been spent on it, much less a further investment. WP:DTS is instructive in this situation. Twenty-six of your thirty contributions to this project have been about the date format at a single article. Surely there's something else you care about too? Folly Mox (talk) 05:57, 3 December 2023 (UTC)
 * , focusing on date formats is a complete and total waste of time that does nothing to improve the encyclopedia. I highly recommend that you focus on substantive improvements to Wikipedia articles instead. Cullen328 (talk) 10:39, 3 December 2023 (UTC)

Problems with editors (and admins!) removing factual information
Hi there, I'm new to editing Wikipedia. I've been trying to update some information for the city I live in. I've been attempting to update the Demographics section with raw unopinionated data from the most recent Census and American Community Survey, but I've had it repeatedly removed by editors. I attempted to undo the removal, and an admin reversed that and said it needed a 'consensus'. Is that true, that Wikipedia requires a consensus for raw demographic counts to be posted? I'm kind of concerned about it, and hoping someone can provide guidance. For reference, I'm talking about the Vista, CA Wikipedia page. 76.232.123.103 (talk) 20:47, 3 December 2023 (UTC)


 * Welcome to the Teahouse! Consensus is the way Wikipedia editors decide what information (and at what level of detail) is included in an article.  Wikipedia:WikiProject Cities/Settlements: Article structure does not provide specify what demographic sources should or should not be included.  The BOLD, revert, discuss cycle is a common way to start the process to determine consensus.  I'm glad you're having a discussion at Talk:Vista, California page.  You may need to have separate discussions for each topic you've added that has been reverted.  Happy editing! GoingBatty (talk) 21:02, 3 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Got it, thanks for your help. I had a discussion with the admin in question and sorted the issue. Reposting a question I posed to the admin here if anyone is open to answering:
 * "To follow up, I was wondering generally if there are any specific Wikipedia rules or policies relative to deleting otherwise factual information. As in, if an editor deletes a cited fact that is presented without opinion, does that still require discussion before undoing the removal? Or could the removal be considered vandalism or something, given that the edit removed a truthful and relevant fact. I always assumed Wikipedia would allow factual information to stand, so long as it is in fact relevant to the topic of the page. I'm planning a series of edits to update the page in question, and plan to support them all with citations, but I'm concerned about getting bogged down in 'discussions' over things that are actual facts, if that makes sense. Discussions relevant to whether or not something is relevant to the topic, whether or not it is actually true, or supported by a given reference, etc I can see would clearly warrant discussion. Just wondering what to do in the case someone undoes a factual edit over an undefined or overtly subjective/preferential reason, and whether that still requires discussion before reinstating the facts." 76.232.123.103 (talk) 21:27, 3 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Consensus is always required when another editor disagrees with content that you have added. A cycle of repeatedly adding and removing content without talk page discussion is Edit warring, which is blockable offense. Cullen328 (talk) 23:30, 3 December 2023 (UTC)
 * I think what I'm trying to ask is at what point would deleting factual information count as vandalism or some other offense? Surely consensus is not required for factual information, if the veracity of the fact itself is unchallenged. 76.232.123.103 (talk) 02:26, 4 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Consensus is still required when someone challenges factual information. Wikipedia does not aim to contain all factual information, and discussion is needed when we disagree about what factual information should be included. Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 02:39, 4 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Vandalism begins by saying . Any good faith disagreement about which content to include in an article is, by definition, not vandalism. False accusations of vandalism are a form of disruptive editing. You are incorrect that consensus is not required to add factual information. If the addition is contested by another editor, then gaining consensus is mandatory. According to What Wikipedia is not, which is policy,  and  and  So, how is the decision made about what to include in a specific article? Through consensus among the editors interested in that article. Cullen328 (talk) 02:47, 4 December 2023 (UTC)
 * You stated "Surely consensus is not required for factual information". However, consensus IS required, even for factual information.  For example, imagine if we could find reliable published sources for the daily temperature for Vista for every day for the last 30 years, or every street name in Vista, or every person who ever served on the city council.  While we could all agree that it was factual information, we would still not include all of it in the article.  We don't have guidelines stating listing every possible piece of information and whether it should or should not be in the article.  Instead, we rely on consensus building to make those determinations. GoingBatty (talk) 03:12, 4 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks, my full statement was "Surely consensus is not required for factual information, if the veracity of the fact itself is unchallenged." Still, I see your point about not including every possible data point. However, if someone is removing current factual data, such as current demographics, which is present on every other city page, without contesting the veracity of the data, is that not fitting the definition of vandalism? It seems to be that would be a deliberate intent to obstruct or defeat the purpose of the city project pages, especially because the city project guidelines do indeed specify that current demographic estimates should be included. If an act is believed to be vandalism, is there a way to report to admins, or what would be the proper avenue? 76.232.123.103 (talk) 03:22, 4 December 2023 (UTC)
 * The edit summaries briefly explain why your edits were reverted, which demonstrate that you're having a difference of opinion, and the editors involved are not committing vandalism. I see you've started a discussion on the talk page about the Native American history, and suggest you do something similar for the demographic data.  For reporting actual vandalism, there is WP:AIV, and it's important for you to read the big green section at the top before posting there.  If you do post there, you might receive similar responses to those you received here. GoingBatty (talk) 04:39, 4 December 2023 (UTC)
 * You say you've read the edit summaries... but several of the edit summaries did not address at all why certain things were removed. The Native American history being removed is one such example. I do think that qualifies as vandalism. Please feel free to let me know if you disagree. 76.232.123.103 (talk) 05:29, 5 December 2023 (UTC)
 * For more context, what I'm referring to is edit summaries that address one particular facet of what was removed, but not other parts that were removed. Are editors allowed to revert such edits without discussion? Especially if factual information was removed without any indication of rationale or disagreement in the edit summary. 76.232.123.103 (talk) 05:32, 5 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Okay upon further review it looks like vandalism warnings are what I was looking for. Sounds like at least one of those warning templates apply if things were deleted without explanation. I will use those in the future if needed. Thanks for your help 76.232.123.103 (talk) 06:36, 5 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Be *very* careful before issuing a vandalism warning, as it is likely not what you think; the specific meaning was quoted above. Even if an editor adds false information, even in a disruptive way, even while edit-warring, it is not vandalism if their goal is to improve the article with the edit in question. The edit might violate other policies or guidelines in those circumstances, but not vandalism per se. Be sure you understand this before issuing any warnings. Mathglot (talk) 09:28, 5 December 2023 (UTC)

Converting articles from different language?
Hi! Is there any specific policies about converting articles from another language? My draft https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:Werther_Dell%27Edera is drastically different from the Italian's page https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Werther_Dell%27Edera (partly because I recently found it) ALtered000 (talk) 07:34, 5 December 2023 (UTC)


 * @ALtered000 there is no need to structure articles the same across languages. In fact sometimes the communities have different preferences for article structure across languages. But if you feel confident you can translate content from that article to your draft as long as you provide attribution. If you don't provide attribution then that would be plagiarism. Immanuelle ❤️💚💙 (talk to the cutest Wikipedian) 07:53, 5 December 2023 (UTC)
 * @Immanuelle Cool! Do I provide attribution by linking the Italian article itself as a cite/source or just mentioning it in the edit notes? P.S. anyway to get rid of this question as it's resolved? ALtered000 (talk) 08:01, 5 December 2023 (UTC)
 * @ALtered000 do not cite the article in the sources, since it is not a source, you are just adapting the written content. But you can do it in a variety of ways. The preferred one is linking the revision you are taking it from which in this case is this one https://it.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Werther_Dell%27Edera&oldid=136738421 but there are a variety of ways to do it such as mentioning it in the edit history, or linking in the edit history Immanuelle ❤️💚💙 (talk to the cutest Wikipedian) 08:09, 5 December 2023 (UTC)
 * @Immanuelle Okay! Consider this resolved thanks for your help Immanuelle! ALtered000 (talk) 08:15, 5 December 2023 (UTC)
 * More Info can be found at Help:Translation, especially the part about license requirements. Lectonar (talk) 11:11, 5 December 2023 (UTC)

Football talk
Good evening, I wanted to ask if in the English Wikipedia there were generic talk page on a given subject such as in the Italian edition, in particular I would be interested in one about football. Thank you very much and kind regards 14 novembre (talk) 20:44, 4 December 2023 (UTC)


 * see wp:football or its talk page, but also keep wp:notforum in mind  cogsan (give me attention)  (see my deeds) 22:01, 4 December 2023 (UTC)
 * @Cogsan Thanks, this is what I was looking for. Kind regards 14 novembre (talk) 12:53, 5 December 2023 (UTC)

Alt Accounts
I see many users use alternative accounts when using public internet. Should i do the same or does it not make a difference in terms of account safety? Subariba (talk) 21:42, 4 December 2023 (UTC)


 * WP:SOCK: "To maintain accountability and increase community trust, editors are generally expected to use only one account." Solomon Ucko (talk) 21:56, 4 December 2023 (UTC)


 * That's a very unhelpful contribution, Sollyucko. Alternate accounts are legitimate per WP:SOCKLEGIT. One stated reason is: "Security: You may register an alternative account for use when accessing Wikipedia through a public computer, connecting to an unsecured network, or other scenarios when there's a risk of your account being compromised." It is probably for individuals to assess for themselves the level of risk associated with public networks they use, and to determine the need or otherwise for an alt account. --Tagishsimon (talk) 22:12, 4 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Do not edit the same article with more than one account. David notMD (talk) 04:50, 5 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Even that's not the case. WP:BADSOCK lists "inappropriate uses of alternative accounts". On the two accounts one article issue it says "Editors may not use more than one account to contribute to the same page or discussion in a way that suggests they are multiple people. Contributing to the same page with clearly linked, legitimate, alternative accounts (e.g. editing the same page with your main and public computer account or editing a page using your main account that your bot account edited) is not forbidden." --Tagishsimon (talk) 04:57, 5 December 2023 (UTC)
 * I believe that it's only really a problem if you're using sockpuppets deceptively or for some personal gain. As @Tagishsimon pointed out, socks are permitted if it's for security reasons. Just make sure that it's clear it's a sockpuppet. Quick Quokka  [⁠talk • contribs] 08:44, 5 December 2023 (UTC)
 * And if I decide to make a new account will the same email I use for this account work? Subariba (talk) 13:52, 5 December 2023 (UTC)
 * @Subariba Yes, it will. The account name is used to log on, not an email address. Mike Turnbull (talk) 13:55, 5 December 2023 (UTC)

how do I write a new article without using the article wizard every time?
Please help. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Cheesemaster12 (talk • contribs) 05:16, 4 December 2023 (UTC)


 * @Cheesemaster12: Welcome to the Teahouse! You can create a page at User:Cheesemaster12/sandbox or as a draft and work on it at your leisure.  When you are done with it, you can use the Articles for creation process to ask for a review, or (if you've had success creating articles before) move it directly to articlespace.  Happy editing! GoingBatty (talk) 05:36, 4 December 2023 (UTC)
 * , use of the Article Wizard is a convenience, and is entirely optional for established editors. Use of the Articles for creation process is also entirely optional for established editors. I have written over 100 new articles and none of them went through tje wizard or AFC. None has been deleted. That is because I understand Notability and other relevant Policies and guidelines, and I gather up my high quality references before trying to write a new article. Only then, I then create citations to those reliable sources, and begin summarizing what they say. This is how an acceptable Wikipedia should be written. Writing down what you think you know about the topic, and then later trying to find sources is the wrong approach that repeatedly leads to frustration. To summarize: find your reliable sources first and format them into references. Only then, summarize what your reliable sources say. Do not use weak or mediocre sources. Use only the highest quality reliable, independent sources that devote significant coverage to the topic. That approach followed correctly guarantees success. Cullen328 (talk) 08:40, 4 December 2023 (UTC)


 * Cheesemaster12, you haven't made many edits so far; and of those that you have made, a number have been reverted. I advise you to practise improving existing articles some more before you embark on creating a new article. That way you'll have a greater chance of success. -- Hoary (talk) 09:39, 4 December 2023 (UTC)
 * If you decide to skip AfC and create an article in Mainspace, and it is not up to or close to Wikipedia standards, then New Pages Patrol (WP:NPP) reviewers are likely to convert it to a draft, start a deletion process at WP:AFD or just Speedy delete it. Hence, waste of your time. David notMD (talk) 11:02, 4 December 2023 (UTC)
 * The only way I could think of without the Wizard is by using your sandbox. Babysharkboss2 was here!!  ( Talk to me! ) ( Stone Free ) 14:15, 5 December 2023 (UTC)
 * That's not what this user is referring to. They want to directly create articles, not create them elsewhere. 331dot (talk) 14:17, 5 December 2023 (UTC)
 * oh, so like, skip the draft process entirely? Babysharkboss2 was here!!  ( Talk to me! ) ( Stone Free ) 14:35, 5 December 2023 (UTC)

Question about CTOP restrictions
Hey all,

I like to process requests for article quality assessments. Someone asked me to reassess an article that pertains to AA2. I did so but now I'm wondering if I made a mistake there. I checked the listed page restrictions and didn't see a problem as I didn't make any reverts or anything but I was also not extended confirmed at the time and I know that's a restriction. Should I have deferred it to someone else or am I in the clear? Pear 2.0 (say hi!) 13:26, 5 December 2023 (UTC)


 * I'd say this specific case is moot, since you're now extended confirmed. In general, I would advise that non-EC editors not do quality assessments on articles covered by community-imposed EC restrictions. It seems more like an "internal project discussion" than the "constructive comments" or "edit requests related to articles" that are permitted by the restriction. It's a grey area, as far as I'm aware. Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 13:43, 5 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Alright! Thank you, I'll keep that in mind. I should've checked more thoroughly before assessing. Pear 2.0 (say hi!) 14:56, 5 December 2023 (UTC)

Can't login via Android
I can't login while using Chrome on Android, when I literally push "Log in" on Wikipedia's mobile homepage the side bar just disappears again, and nothing else happens. 2600:6C50:4800:1052:5CB2:B046:D30D:FE48 (talk) 14:37, 5 December 2023 (UTC)
 * @2600:6C50:4800:1052:5CB2:B046:D30D:FE48 See COOKIES for troubleshooting steps. Leoneix (talk) 15:05, 5 December 2023 (UTC)

wikipedia
hi! I'm not reporting anything I just have a question for the people at Wikipedia: How fast does the information get put on Wikipedia? (like does it take a few minutes, days, ect) (also i really want to say hi!!) Jude marrero (talk) 21:22, 4 December 2023 (UTC)


 * Hello and welcome to the Teahouse. Generally, an edit is live the moment you click "publish changes". If you are referring to submitting a draft, it does take time for a review. 331dot (talk) 21:25, 4 December 2023 (UTC)
 * a quick question about the same topic: is Wikipedia information from one source (like Google only) or multiple sources? Jude marrero (talk) 21:32, 4 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Google is not a source; but it links to other sites, many of which are WP:reliable sources with a reputation for independence, editorial control and fact checking, but many of which are blogs, promotional sites, predatory publishers and other unreliable sources - Arjayay (talk) 21:50, 4 December 2023 (UTC)
 * @Jude marrero, almost everything on Wikipedia is written by volunteer editors, who may research the topics they write about however they like. You can see what sources editors used to write each article by looking at the "References" section or following the footnotes in each article. -- asilvering (talk) 01:37, 5 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Information gets put on Wikipedia when someone puts in on Wikipedia. How long that takes is highly variable. For topics that get a lot of attention, this could be within minutes of the news breaking; for obscure topics, it could take years, if it ever gets added. Usually it's somewhere in-between. Solomon Ucko (talk) 21:59, 4 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Sports results may be added within seconds. I have done it myself with the edit already written and ready to save. If I'm watching the event live and rooting for the winner then it can be satisfying. PrimeHunter (talk) 23:42, 4 December 2023 (UTC)
 * The article avout Henry Kissinger was converted from "is" to "was" within minutes after his death became general news. David notMD (talk) 04:49, 5 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Quick Quokka [⁠talk • contribs] 08:46, 5 December 2023 (UTC)
 * you mean like, info? There's hundreds of edits a minute, so pretty fast. Babysharkboss2 was here!!  ( Talk to me! ) ( Stone Free ) 14:41, 5 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Tech note: the Wikimedia set of sites (not just English Wikipedia) lately has a typical average of a little over 20 edits per second, and that easily spikes much higher when there is a major world event. DMacks (talk) 15:58, 5 December 2023 (UTC)

Advice for attempted de-orphan category
Greetings, For "Category:Attempted de-orphan from December 2023" (57 articles), a new editor (User talk:Orange sticker) added the "att=December 2023" wikicode replacing the original orphan tag's date. Question: should these be Reverted? Or manually fix each one? I did fix one article myself (Yard Kings). What would be the best option? Note: I'm on vacation now, but do daily check watchlist. Regards, JoeNMLC (talk) 02:55, 5 December 2023 (UTC)


 * &#123;{u&#124; Sdkb  }&#125;  talk 04:01, 5 December 2023 (UTC)
 * @JoeNMLC, it's a little hard for me to tell exactly what's going on without links, but when I checked the user's contributions, the first thing I found was an instance of them removing the tag from a page that hadn't actually been de-orphaned. They should be watched to make sure they're receiving appropriate help and, if they're not receptive, that the disruption is limited. I'd suggest posting at WT:DEORPHAN, as folks there may be more familiar with that area of the project than we are. Cheers, &#123;{u&#124; Sdkb  }&#125;  talk 04:09, 5 December 2023 (UTC)
 * ✅ - fyi, for these articles, I fixed by inserting the original orphan date back into the tag. Regards, JoeNMLC (talk) 16:24, 5 December 2023 (UTC)

Article of Georgios Dritsakos
I just submitted the draft of Georgios Dritsakos will be transferred to the articles about the retired Lieutenant General Georgios Dritsakos. He served as Adjutant of the Hellenic Air Force to the President of the Hellenic Republic Constantinos Stephanopoulos from 2002–2005. He was a Lieutenant Colonel and Colonel. Do you have somebody make an articles of Georgios Dritsakos? He is now the Governor of the Hellenic Civil Aviation Authority. 108.21.67.83 (talk) 15:50, 3 December 2023 (UTC)


 * Welcome to the Teahouse! I see you resubmitted Draft:Georgios Dritsakos, which I just declined again because you haven't addressed the comments from the previous reviewers.  Wikipedia editors are volunteers who write about what they like.  I added some additional WikiProjects to the talk page in the hope that will get some more attention to your draft.  You could also try asking at the appropriate subpage of Requested articles, but there is no guarantee that anyone will respond to your request. GoingBatty (talk) 16:47, 3 December 2023 (UTC)
 * I want to explain this. How do I try to ask at the appropriate subpage of Wikipedia:Requested articles before somebody will help me out about the draft of Governor of the Hellenic Civil Aviation Authority Georgios Dritsakos, former Adjutant to the President of the Hellenic Republic and the Retired Lieutenant General of the Hellenic Air Force? 108.21.67.83 (talk) 00:58, 4 December 2023 (UTC)
 * The answer is – you shouldn't try, because it's very unlikely that anyone who could help, and would want to, will see such a request.
 * What you need to do is find acceptable (i.e. lengthy, independent, published) Reliable sources that demonstrate the Notability of Georgios Dritsakos, add the information from them to the Draft, and correctly cite the sources. This may not be possible, because Georgios Dritsakos may not be "notable" (in Wikipedia's use of the term).
 * You also need to cite sources for much of the information already in the Draft – every fact needs to be cited to a source (which may mean citing the same source several times). If those acceptable sources do not exist, no article about Georgios Dritsakos can, at this time, be made to meet the requirements. Not every current or ex-military officer or Civil Servant is "Notable", most are not: perhaps if Georgios Dritsakos attains more prominence in future, more source material will be written that can be used.
 * Incidentally, you begin the draft by describing him as a "Greek colonel". The regime of the Greek colonels ended in 1974, so this is puzzling. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 51.194.245.32 (talk) 13:44, 4 December 2023 (UTC)
 * You're wrong. I have this in the information about the reference for Lieutenant General Georgios Dritsakos. https://web.archive.org/web/20140806053317/http://www.haf.gr/el/structure/hgesia/dritsakos_cv.asp 108.21.67.83 (talk) 14:50, 4 December 2023 (UTC)
 * https://web.archive.org/web/20140806053317/http://www.haf.gr/el/structure/hgesia/dritsakos_cv.asp says "Σμήναρχος: 20/04/2004", and Google Translate and Wiktionary agree that "σμήναρχος" means colonel. Just because the Greek junta run by colonels ended doesn't mean that Greece no longer has colonels. Solomon Ucko (talk) 16:58, 4 December 2023 (UTC)
 * But this is the English-language Wikipedia, and in the English language "Greek Colonel" is usually understood to be a reference to the Junta, rather than just to any Colonel in the Greek military forces.
 * It may be that very senior Greek military officers are routinely referred to as "Colonels", but this is not usually the case elsewhere, so you would need to clarify what is meant by it in this instance. For comparison, in the British Army a Colonel is the seniormost soldier of a regiment or corps, but is junior to all Brigadiers, Major-Generals, Lieutenant-Generals, Generals and Field Marshals. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 51.194.245.32 (talk) 16:29, 5 December 2023 (UTC)
 * I don't think the sources you use in your Draft:Georgios Dritsakos are sufficient to constitute notability.
 * The General notability guidelines require "significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject". The basic criteria for notability of people clarify this as "significant coverage in multiple published secondary sources that are reliable, intellectually independent of each other, and independent of the subject" (see the link for additional explanation). As far as I can tell, the first source is not independent of the subject, and the other two do not constitute significant coverage.
 * Alternatively, the "any biography" notability guidelines provide the option that he have "received a well-known and significant award or honor" or have "been nominated for such an award several times". https://web.archive.org/web/20140806053317/http://www.haf.gr/el/structure/hgesia/dritsakos_cv.asp lists various medals, but I don't know if they count as "well-known and significant".
 * In order for your Wikipedia article to be accepted, start by providing any of the following:
 * Reliable, independent sources that provide significant coverage.
 * Evidence of any of the medals being both "well-known" and "significant", ideally in relation to Georgios Dritsakos specifically.
 * A reliable source stating that he received a "well-known and significant award or honor".
 * Solomon Ucko (talk) 17:40, 4 December 2023 (UTC)

How to establish your own novel
I want to be a novel writer S S ngwenya (talk) 16:40, 5 December 2023 (UTC)


 * Hello. This isn't the forum to seek help with your career path. 331dot (talk) 16:43, 5 December 2023 (UTC)
 * try asking a publisher, not Wikipedia (WP:NOT FORUM) Babysharkboss2 was here!!  ( Talk to me! ) ( Stone Free ) 17:01, 5 December 2023 (UTC)

Patents as 'noteworthy information'
I'm working on improving American Biotech and, while it seems they have a fairly widespread product, there isn't much information about it other than the same press release on a bunch of different websites. I'm considering deleting the Patents section altogether. For companies like this, is it useful to include information like this that is just a list of products or patents, or to cite an otherwise uncontroversial FDA product approval? Reconrabbit (talk) 17:34, 5 December 2023 (UTC)


 * @Reconrabbit, with sources like that, I'd remove it per WP:ABOUTSELF/WP:PATENTS. If no one else is interested in their patents, neither is WP. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 18:12, 5 December 2023 (UTC)
 * @Reconrabbit, our general approach is that we want to reflect what has been written in secondary sources, so if it hasn't appeared outside of press releases and primary sources like FDA documents, then we don't need it. WP:NOTCATALOG may also be relevant. Cheers, &#123;{u&#124; Sdkb  }&#125;  talk 18:14, 5 December 2023 (UTC)

Draft acceptance
Hello! I have been trying to get this article Miguel Di Pizio into the main space but keeps getting rejected from reviewers. Is there anything I could do to get it accepted? Or should I just wait until more information is released? I have no idea what is wrong with the article in terms of wikipedia guidelines. JC Kotisow (talk) 09:19, 5 December 2023 (UTC)
 * MORE INFO: Di Pizio is described as playing for Australia men's national under-17 soccer team. He shows up in the roster list as a red Wikilink, as do most of the players, but a few are blue Wikilinks. So, is accepting this draft arbitrary, depending on the reviewer, or is there some nuance to the references for the accepted players that got those articles accepted? David notMD (talk) 09:51, 5 December 2023 (UTC)
 * AH HA! The blue Wikilink articles about players were created in Mainspace, i.e., not through AfC. We need an expert football editor to opine on notability of junior athletes. David notMD (talk) 09:58, 5 December 2023 (UTC)
 * As WP:NFOOTY no longer applies, we basically fall back to WP:GNG. -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 13:15, 5 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Thus, very unlikely that any teenage football athlete meets WP:GNG, and someone with more energy than I would nominate the other athletes' articles bluelinked at Australia men's national under-17 soccer team to be deleted. Life is harsh. David notMD (talk) 18:37, 5 December 2023 (UTC)

Kind of Author bio page
I wrote a novel. Signed a contrac with an editor and it is going to be published this month, or begining of january.

I tried to create a page of the Author, but was not approved.

How should i proceed?

Thanks Rmrribeiro (talk) 16:14, 4 December 2023 (UTC)


 * Do you mean that you want to make a page about yourself, or that you paid another user to make one? Either way, this is WP:COI. Babysharkboss2 was here!!  ( Talk to me! ) ( Slim Shady ) 16:16, 4 December 2023 (UTC)
 * @Rmrribeiro You have been trying to create an autobiography, which is strongly discouraged for the reasons given at that link. We have a policy on biographies which you ignored: all facts stated must have inline citations to reliable published sources. To demonstrate that you are a wikinotable author you would need multiple sources meeting these criteria. I suggest you stick to novel writing for now and let someone else create your biography when appropriate sources are available. Mike Turnbull (talk) 16:24, 4 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you for your answer.
 * I though that it was normal, as i see a lot of published "small" authors bios here.
 * Your last sentence was not that friendly, but i will follow your advice.
 * regards,
 * rmribeiro Rmrribeiro (talk) 16:35, 4 December 2023 (UTC)
 * u|rmribeiro Many articles - especially older - exist but do not meet current standards for verifying notability. When the book is published and is reviewed, the reviews may serve as references for an article about the book, but not necessarily about you, the author, unless you are the primary subject of published articles. Mike's reply was perhaps a bit short on tact, but it is in line with Wikipedia guidelines, to wit, if your writings end up making you sufficiently famous, then someone with no connect to you may decides to write an article. David notMD (talk) 04:46, 5 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks David. I understand, and it makes perfect sence. I also understand Mike´s answer, because you guys must see alot of marketing and self promotion atempts.
 * Regards and keep up the good work Rmrribeiro (talk) 19:40, 5 December 2023 (UTC)

Dobroflot
I wanted to leave a note on this artile's talk page, but that seems impossible. Any idea Whst I am doing wrong? Perhaps the comment snhould be made to one of the subgroups?Oldsilenus (talk) 18:59, 5 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Hello, @Oldsilenus. Could you describe your problem more precisely? When look at Talk:Dobroflot, I don't see any obvious problem. -- Maddy from Celeste (WAVEDASH) 19:00, 5 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks and sorry for not entering Dobroflot (with braces). Usually on the talk page when one moves below the top banners, the cursor changes (ton I) so that a comment can be added. This does not happen on my screen. There seems to be no way to enter anything below the Wikiproject Russia entry.  Oldsilenus (talk) 19:17, 5 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Right. There should be a button labeled "New section" or "+" at the top of your screen which will add a new section. Alternatively, you could simply click "edit" and add a section manually. -- Maddy from Celeste (WAVEDASH)</b> 19:22, 5 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Click "New Section" at the top of the page. Subariba (talk) 19:04, 5 December 2023 (UTC)
 * OOPS! You ar correct I wasn't in "Edit." A bad day today Oldsilenus (talk) 19:40, 5 December 2023 (UTC)

My registration date is incorrect. I'm not sure where to ask about this...
Like I said, I'm not sure who or where to address this matter, but I believe my registration date is incorrect.

The earliest edit I can find that I made is dated 23 June 2012 but on my account page it says I registered in 2015.

How do I get this corrected so my account shows the correct date/year that I actually created my account here?

Tallship (talk) 09:11, 4 December 2023 (UTC)


 * There isn't any way as far as I know to go back and change the date your account was created. The global log indicates you registered in 2015 so I don't know how you could have edited in 2012.  It could have something to do with when accounts were made global across all projects, but someone with more knowledge than I would need to speak to that. Did you create your account on this project?  No account creation date is listed for you, which suggests you created it on another project. 331dot (talk) 09:48, 4 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Interesting that your Xtools record shows the first edit on 2012-06-23 09:02, while Special:CentralAuth/Tallship shows registration as 14:03, 17 March 2015. -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 10:30, 4 December 2023 (UTC)
 * The user creation log was started in 2005 and you aren't registered there. Is it possible your account was created before that and made no edit until 2012? I don't think the creation date can be found in that case. Special:CentralAuth/Tallship shows the global account creation, a system that didn't exist in 2005. The date shown there cannot and should not be changed. mw:SUL finalisation ended in 2015. Your account was in the last group to get global accounts because you didn't request it and your username existed at different wikis with different passwords. Before global accounts, different people could pick the same name at different wikis. MediaWiki had no way of telling whether it was the same person when the password was different. An account at meta which may or may not have been yours was automatically renamed to Tallship~metawiki. PrimeHunter (talk) 11:42, 4 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you so much (everyone who chimed in)!
 * @PrimeHunter 's explanation actually provided me with the most comprehensive likelihoods possible of the various scenarios. As an early adopter I usually create an account somewhere I consider important even if I've no immediate plans to participate - so it stands to reason that I created the account years before I actually affected my first edit in 2012.
 * Thank you again everyone, and kindest regards,
 * Tallship (talk) 22:50, 5 December 2023 (UTC)

Need help editing an article
Prevention Project Dunkelfeld is a group that offers therapy to pedophiles. The sources make that clear, and only use this phrase. I am automatically prevented from replacing the weasel word "chronophile", which isn't in the sources for pedophile, which is. Can anyone explain why this isn't allowed? Big Money Threepwood (talk) 15:26, 5 December 2023 (UTC)


 * Big Money Threepwood According to the edit filter log you added pedophile to the text, which tripped the edit filter for common vandalism words (as you can guess, 'pedophile' is commonly used for vandalism). In this case, you can report the false positive at WP:EFFP. Sungodtemple (talk &#8226; contribs) 15:45, 5 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Hi User:Big Money Threepwood. The article actually previously did use the correct word, but then someone changed it (among a set of related changes that all look poor). I undid them all. DMacks (talk) 15:51, 5 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you!
 * Big Money Threepwood (talk) 22:56, 5 December 2023 (UTC)

[PERSON] has been covered by [MAGAZINE 1], [MAGAZINE 2], [MAGAZINE 3], etc.
Hello I was wondering if this sentence structure is always considered puffery for a biography article and if so I can delete it. I do know be bold, but was looking for a paragraph in MOS category to justify removing this sentence I see in even well-maintained biographies. बिनोद थारू (talk) 04:05, 5 December 2023 (UTC)


 * Hi @बिनोद थारू; great question! We tend to avoid absolutes on Wikipedia, so I hesitate to say always, but that sentence does read as quite puffy to me. One reason it may exist is that it's someone attempting to establish notability for a subject by linking to the best sources on them. If the sentence is supported by refs that look high-quality, you could try removing the sentence and just moving the refs to after the first sentence of the article. Otherwise, just take it out.
 * Regarding policy-and-guideline-based rationale for removing it, there are a few different things you could cite. WP:PUFFERY is certainly one. Another would be WP:DUE, as articles are supposed to reflect coverage in secondary sources, and while a magazine profile might normally be a secondary source, it's a primary source for the fact that it has covered that person. And so unless e.g. Magazine 2 have written about the fact that the person was covered in Magazine 1, there isn't secondary coverage.
 * Hope that helps! Cheers, &#123;{u&#124; Sdkb  }&#125;  talk 04:20, 5 December 2023 (UTC)


 * I think there's also a legitimate "does removing the sentence improve the encyclopedia" question to be answered. If we take the Mike Hollingshead article, for instance, I'm not convinced that we do anyone a favour by removing the sentence here:
 * "Mike Hollingshead is an American professional storm chaser, photographer and videographer from Blair, Nebraska.[1] His work has been covered by NPR,[2] numerous photography magazines and websites, and on the cover of National Geographic.[3] It is also featured in films and television, such as Take Shelter, The Fifth Estate, and the series finale of Dexter. In 2008 Hollingshead released his first book titled Adventures in Tornado Alley: The Storm Chasers with co-author Eric Nguyen.[4][5][6][7][8]"
 * A core WP policy is WP:IAR: If a rule prevents you from improving or maintaining Wikipedia, ignore it. Examples of users following their conception of the rules, but degrading the product, are all too frequent. Please don't be one of those. --Tagishsimon (talk) 05:04, 5 December 2023 (UTC)
 * In my opinion numerous photography magazines and websites does not convey any information, so it would be better to remove it. Same is the NPR bit since it's a standard news outlet. But Nat GEO cover is very relevant for photographer so can be left included. बिनोद थारू (talk) 05:10, 5 December 2023 (UTC)
 * It does convey information. Citations are not provided for the claims, but then it is not highly likely the claims will be challenged. So I do need to put it to you: what's so damn important about your opinion? Who died and made you king? --Tagishsimon (talk) 05:20, 5 December 2023 (UTC)
 * ? बिनोद थारू (talk) 05:21, 5 December 2023 (UTC)
 * You are presuming your judgement is better than the person who wrote that part of the article or, come to it, mine. You are boldly stating that a sentence which conveys information does not convey information. Does it occur to you that you may not be correct? --Tagishsimon (talk) 05:23, 5 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Yes I would say am 60%-70% the times correct. So maybe some decision fall into 30%-40%. बिनोद थारू (talk) 05:25, 5 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Those odds, inflated as they are by your own confirmation bias, do not seem great to me. --Tagishsimon (talk) 05:27, 5 December 2023 (UTC)


 * बिनोद थारू, good question. Statements such as that in the title of this thread strike me as near worthless. If somebody was "featured", or if his work was "covered", in some issue of some magazine or wherever, then decide if the feature or coverage is worth describing, and if it is then describe it. The article Mike Hollingshead says that "In 2008, Hollingshead released his first book titled Adventures in Tornado Alley: The Storm Chasers with co-author Eric Nguyen" and points to four reviews of this; summaries of the reviews would be far more valuable. I'm not volunteering to do this myself (either because I'm up to my ears in another article or because I'm a lazy bastard; take your pick). -- Hoary (talk) 12:48, 5 December 2023 (UTC) (sixty to seventy percent of the time right, maybe)
 * , I agree with . If a source says something relevant about the subject, tell the reader what it says. If it doesn't, don't bother citing it. Maproom (talk) 07:16, 6 December 2023 (UTC)

Draft declined
how do I submit a biography of a well known plastic surgeon? Drwilliammiami (talk) 16:43, 5 December 2023 (UTC)


 * Hello. You have already attempted to do this, and it was deleted as promotional. Furthermore, you seem to be writing about yourself. Please read the autobiography policy as to why that is highly discouraged. 331dot (talk) 16:48, 5 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Tried twice, speedy deleted twice. Unless "Dr. William" (you?) is as famous as surgeons listed at Surgeon it is unlikely that a third attempt could succeed. David notMD (talk) 18:19, 5 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Note that "famous" isn't quite right, it's whether there are sufficient independent reliable sources providing significant coverage of the surgeon to meet Wikipedia's inclusion criteria, called "notability". See WP:NBIO for more information.  GoingBatty (talk) 02:27, 6 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Be aware that if you do succeed in creating an article - by including reliable source references - you do not "own" that article. If there are publications about reputationally negative events, for example a malpractice suit, that could be added to the article by other Wikipedia editors. David notMD (talk) 08:06, 6 December 2023 (UTC)

Drafting
How do I make a draft about something? Tailscraft (talk) 10:16, 6 December 2023 (UTC)


 * Hello and welcome. The easiest way is to use the Article Wizard. 331dot (talk) 10:23, 6 December 2023 (UTC)
 * You appear to have already made a draft, so perhaps I misunderstood your question? 331dot (talk) 10:24, 6 December 2023 (UTC)
 * @Tailscraft The issue with your Draft:HShop is that it ignores a key pillar of Wikipedia, namely that we insist articles are about topics which reach a threshold of wikinotability. That means that drafts must include evidence from sources that are independent of the topic and meet other criteria summarised here. Your draft only had citations to the website of HShop themselves, which is not enough. Please read WP:YFA. Mike Turnbull (talk) 11:55, 6 December 2023 (UTC)

add sources to "Education" and "Events and exhibitions" sections
How  to add sources to "Education" and "Events and exhibitions" sections in article? where I can upload diplomas and certificates Khanlar Asadullayev (talk) 11:59, 6 December 2023 (UTC)


 * @Khanlar Asadullayev Welcome to the Teahouse. I assume this is about Draft:KHanlar Asadullayev which appears to be your attempt at an autobiography. Writing your autobiography is strongly discouraged for the reasons mentioned at the link. You have run into exactly one of the problems. You would like to cite evidence that you have had a particular education and held various exhibitions BUT you lack published sources that say you do. You are writing your draft backwards and need to read that linked essay to see why that won't work. I'm afraid that it is highly unlikely that any acceptable autobiography will result and you may not like the outcome in the long term if it did. Mike Turnbull (talk) 12:12, 6 December 2023 (UTC)
 * .... incidentally, by uploading a very high-resolution copy of your painting to Commons at File:Melburn by Khanlar A..jpg you have given permission to anyone to use that image for any purpose, including commercially, for example as a greeting card, provided they cite the source. Mike Turnbull (talk) 12:22, 6 December 2023 (UTC)

QUESTIONS ABOUT WRITTEN ARTICLES
Why two of my written historical articles edited todays do not appeared  in wikipedia? Pirro2023 (talk) 12:21, 6 December 2023 (UTC)


 * Hello and welcome to the Teahouse. Your edit history indicates that the only edit you made other than the above is this edit, and it wasn't to an article.  Which articles did you edit? 331dot (talk) 12:23, 6 December 2023 (UTC)
 * You did make several attempts to edit your user page that were blocked by edit filters as spam. Your user page is not article space, but a place for you to tell about yourself as an editor or user.  New accounts cannot directly create articles and must use the article wizard to create and submit a draft- but creating a new article is the most difficult task to attempt on Wikipedia, and it is highly recommended that you first gain experience and knowledge by editing existing articles, to get an idea of what we are looking for- and to use the new user tutorial. 331dot (talk) 12:25, 6 December 2023 (UTC)

Meeting my host
meeting my hosts is so proud to meet them and one-day I might also meet them and I want to meet my hosts 41.114.206.54 (talk) 13:35, 6 December 2023 (UTC)


 * IP editor, this is a help location for editors who are using Wikipedia. Do you have a question about Wikipedia? Mike Turnbull (talk) 13:54, 6 December 2023 (UTC)

Page Approval
Hello,

There is a company mentioned on this page called 'Zego' https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_unicorn_startup_companies

They are one of the few companies on this list without a page, despite having more notability type mentions, the proposed page keeps getting refused, I was wondering if anyone could give me any suggestions. Ive told more notable mentions, but I believe it already meets those requirement's and there isn't any more mentions to add. Here is the page. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:Zego_Insurance 2A02:C7C:6E04:A700:709C:CBA1:BC1F:2985 (talk) 13:50, 6 December 2023 (UTC)


 * the reviewer left a note asking you to see WP:CORPDEPTH and WP:NCOMPANY. Babysharkboss2 was here!!  ( Wr  ld ) 13:54, 6 December 2023 (UTC)

submitted draft article
I submitted a draft article for review about a week ago. How long does it normally take to receive an initial response? Is the response made directly to my email address? Legendt9455 (talk) 16:42, 5 December 2023 (UTC)


 * Hi @Legendt9455: if you mean, then you haven't yet submitted that; you need to click on the blue 'submit' button. -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 16:44, 5 December 2023 (UTC)
 * I cannot locate a blue "submit" button.
 * I believe I clicked the blue "submit" button on 11/28! Legendt9455 (talk) 17:07, 6 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Hello and welcome. If you are referring to Draft:Draft "Robert E. (Bob) Bourke Jr.", you have not actually submitted it yet. You need to click the "submit your draft for review!" button. 331dot (talk) 16:44, 5 December 2023 (UTC)
 * @Legendt9455 Don't submit it in its current state or it will be rapidly declined. You need to read and comply with the policy relating to biographies and this means you must cite the information correctly. See WP:REFB. Mike Turnbull (talk) 16:52, 5 December 2023 (UTC)
 * .... you also need to decide whether you are writing about Bourke or about Studebaker. If the former, a lot of your current text is not on-topic. Mike Turnbull (talk) 16:55, 5 December 2023 (UTC)
 * That page relates to biographies of "living persons."
 * Is there a link to biographies of deceased persons? 2600:8800:A800:B2A:DC6C:D7B3:8650:688F (talk) 16:53, 6 December 2023 (UTC)
 * I did click on the blue "submit" button on 11/28.
 * I cannot locate a "submit your draft for review" button now.
 * Any suggestions? 2600:8800:A800:B2A:DC6C:D7B3:8650:688F (talk) 16:51, 6 December 2023 (UTC)
 * the time varies. When I first submitted my draft, it said up to 4 weeks. Babysharkboss2 was here!!  ( Talk to me! ) ( Stone Free ) 17:16, 5 December 2023 (UTC)
 * FYI - There used to be a backlog of thousands of unreviewed drafts. The system is not a queue. At that time submitted drafts got a note that it could be months. Currently a tremendous effort by many reviewers shortened the list to under 200. I echo the advice not to submit your draft until you fix the obvious; otherwise, you are just wasting a reviewer's time. David notMD (talk) 18:14, 5 December 2023 (UTC)

Pronouns
I was patrolling recent changes and saw someone edit a person's biography section by adding their pronouns. Is this something that should be removed or what? I didn't mess with it because I thought, personally, it might be useful information; however, I am no policy maker and wanted to seek advice for the future. Jan Silija (talk) 16:22, 4 December 2023 (UTC)
 * @Jan Silija, If possible please link the article here. Leoneix (talk) 16:27, 4 December 2023 (UTC)
 * @Leoneix, here it is: Yiftach Fehige. Jan Silija (talk) 16:32, 4 December 2023 (UTC)
 * @Jan Silija It's all good. The subject is referred as "he" in the article and a lookup on the university's website verifies it. There is no need of explicitly mentioning pronouns. Happy Editing! Leoneix (talk) 16:59, 4 December 2023 (UTC)
 * @Jan Silija: Someone else reverted the addition of "(He/Him)" in this edit. The usage of "he" and "his" throughout the article are sufficient.  For more information, see Manual of Style/Gender identity.  Of higher importance is that the article has no references.  Happy editing! GoingBatty (talk) 17:00, 4 December 2023 (UTC)
 * @GoingBatty Should it be blanked or deleted? per WP:NOSOURCES Leoneix (talk) 17:10, 4 December 2023 (UTC)
 * @Leoneix: The edit was reverted, and I think that is sufficient. GoingBatty (talk) 17:13, 4 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Yeah, but there are no sources to support the info written. There are only primary sources (uni profile) available. Leoneix (talk) 17:25, 4 December 2023 (UTC)
 * @Leoneix: You asked "Should it be blanked or deleted", and maybe I misinterpreted what you meant by "it". I was thinking about "it" meant the addition of "(He/Him)" to the article, which was reverted.   If you meant "Should the entire article be blanked or deleted", then that's outside the scope of this discussion of pronouns.  Feel free to nominate the article for deletion if you think that's appropriate. GoingBatty (talk) 22:19, 4 December 2023 (UTC)
 * This is a full professor in a book-writing field - it would be extraordinary if he did not meet our notability guidelines. -- asilvering (talk) 01:39, 5 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Apologies for not mentioning clearly Leoneix (talk) 03:22, 5 December 2023 (UTC)
 * YUP ! it should be removed from the article. 😂🤣 84Swagahh 🤣😂 17:25, 6 December 2023 (UTC)
 * it was, by me. Though perhaps something could be done with the infobox. Babysharkboss2 was here!!  ( Wr  ld ) 17:40, 6 December 2023 (UTC)

Notability guidelines
Where do I find notability guidelines? Dancetheater (talk) 16:47, 6 December 2023 (UTC)


 * Notability for general guidelines, is there a specific category of article you're interested in? microbiology Marcus (petri dish·growths) 16:48, 6 December 2023 (UTC)
 * The types of persons whose biographical information could be included in Wikipedia Dancetheater (talk) 16:51, 6 December 2023 (UTC)
 * you could make a page on someone, but that must be notable. If reliable sources cover a person only in the context of a single event, and if that person otherwise remains, and is likely to remain, a low-profile individual... Babysharkboss2 was here!!  ( Wr  ld ) 16:57, 6 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Hello and welcome to the Teahouse. The overall guidelines may be found at WP:N; that page will also link to narrower guidelines for certain areas(for example, notable organizations). 331dot (talk) 16:49, 6 December 2023 (UTC)


 * Also, if the person in question is alive or recently deceased, you need to take into account the special stipulations at Biographies of living persons. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 51.194.245.32 (talk) 18:09, 6 December 2023 (UTC)

Creating a new entry
How do I create a new entry? Dancetheater (talk) 16:42, 6 December 2023 (UTC)


 * What do you mean by new entry[?]? Would you like to know how to make a page? Babysharkboss2 was here!!  ( Wr  ld ) 16:43, 6 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Yes. I’m not sure of the terminology but the inclusion of a biographical profile of someone not currently included. Dancetheater (talk) 16:49, 6 December 2023 (UTC)
 * So you want to make a new page about a person? You just gotta go to (or, I recommend) the ALL MIGHT WIZARD and make a page. but If it's about a person, make sure it follows WP:BLP and has good sources Babysharkboss2 was here!!  ( Wr  ld ) 16:50, 6 December 2023 (UTC)
 * crap, wrong Rc. Make sure it has reliable sources, not recent changes, lol. Babysharkboss2 was here!!  ( Wr  ld ) 16:51, 6 December 2023 (UTC)
 * whats a new entry? 😂🤣 84Swagahh 🤣😂 16:48, 6 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Help:Your first article Cwater1 (talk) 16:59, 6 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Wikipedia prefers the term "article" to "page", as the latter can be taken to imply that Wikipedia is social media. Articles are articles, but the associated Talk pages are pages. David notMD (talk) 18:16, 6 December 2023 (UTC)
 * I was confused on what he was talking about when he said entry, so I replied asking what it meant. 😂🤣 84Swagahh 🤣😂 18:19, 6 December 2023 (UTC)

help (again)
a random IP has sent a weird talk page message on my talk page, about meeting some host. idk what the host is, but they gave me what I assume to be a phone-number. help, I'm so confused, why does everyone go to ME first?? Babysharkboss2 was here!!  ( Talk to me! ) ( Stone Free ) 13:42, 6 December 2023 (UTC)


 * @Babysharkboss2 The same IP placed a message here at the Teahouse just above your comment. I've no idea what they want but suggest you ignore them. Mike Turnbull (talk) 13:53, 6 December 2023 (UTC)
 * im so confused, about why i'm the only person they talked to on theirr talk page, and why they would post something private like a phone-number, but i'll ignore them and wait for it to archive, thanks! Babysharkboss2 was here!!  ( Wr  ld ) 13:55, 6 December 2023 (UTC)
 * The top of this page says "Meet your hosts". It's linked to Teahouse/Hosts which lists official Teahouse hosts but a user may not notice the link. Then it would be natural for the user to assume that anyone answering questions here is a host they can meet, and you have answered questions. If it was a common occurrence then we could consider a redesign but I haven't heard of a non-host being contacted in this way before so I think we should just ignore it. At least you have an explanation now. PrimeHunter (talk) 14:00, 6 December 2023 (UTC)
 * so like, they want to meet the Teahouse hosts? Babysharkboss2 was here!!  ( Wr  ld ) 14:03, 6 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Yes, but only after misunderstanding something. They apparently thought "Meet your hosts" at top of the page meant "You can meet users who answer questions here." It only means "Click this link to see a list of Teahouse hosts." PrimeHunter (talk) 14:16, 6 December 2023 (UTC)
 * You are allowed to remove the post by WP:REMOVED. I have removed the apparent contact information above. I suggest you do the same if you don't remove the whole post. PrimeHunter (talk) 14:21, 6 December 2023 (UTC)
 * i removed the persons phone number from my talk page, and i'll wait for my bottom archive it. Babysharkboss2 was here!!  ( Wr  ld ) 14:29, 6 December 2023 (UTC)
 * I have no CLUE what you'll have to do ! 84Swagahh (talk) 16:22, 6 December 2023 (UTC)
 * That's not a terribly helpful comment, @84Swagahh. Do you have a question about using or editing Wikipedia? 57.140.16.39 (talk) 16:36, 6 December 2023 (UTC)
 * they don't, check my talk page. 84Swagahh has been talking about unrelated stuff on a old thread. Babysharkboss2 was here!!  ( Wr  ld ) 16:37, 6 December 2023 (UTC)
 * @Babysharkboss2 They clearly know a lot about editing as they used piping in their 7th edit. Doug Weller  talk 18:31, 6 December 2023 (UTC)
 * well, doing something like piping isn't unique to Wikipedia, so it could be that they know editing source, but not much about Wikipedia itself. I only know piping from editing in Fandom, so like, some things can be learned anywhere. But yeah, I don't think they are truly new to wikipedia. but hey, have faith, I guess. Babysharkboss2 was here!!  ( Wr  ld ) 18:37, 6 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Look on my talk page, the other person asked about that and I explained it to him ! 😂🤣 84Swagahh 🤣😂 18:51, 6 December 2023 (UTC)
 * i know, it was two people in fact, and I have your talkpage on my watchlist. Babysharkboss2 was here!!  ( Talk to me ) ( Waif Me! ) 18:52, 6 December 2023 (UTC)
 * ok, well also, I clicked on the piping link from your reply and I didn't realize it was something complicated. I used the visual editor and I selected the text I wanted, clicked the link icon and clicked the article I needed the link to. Next, I just clicked on my newly added link to change the actual text. 😂🤣 84Swagahh 🤣😂 18:55, 6 December 2023 (UTC)

Is this song notable enough for an article?
I was thinking about creating an article for Die For Me by Post Malone featuring Future and Halsey from Hollywood's Bleeding and I wanted to know if it could be created into an article. The reasons that I have that constitute its creation are its popularity (one of the the most popular on the album, as well as the high charts and certifications) and Halsey's solo version which adds two new verses. Thanks! Rockboy1009 (talk) 21:33, 6 December 2023 (UTC)
 * It depends on whether there are enough reliable sources for the song in particular, and not just about the album! Cheers, good luck! Remsense  留  21:34, 6 December 2023 (UTC)
 * There are few sources about the original song by itself, but it is gone over in the many articles of Halsey's solo version. Would the solo version constitute its own article by itself? Rockboy1009 (talk) 22:12, 6 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Rockboy1009, usually if they are considered the same song, they are included in one article. See examples such as "The House of the Rising Sun", "Billie Jean", or "Old Town Road". Cheers! Remsense  留  22:15, 6 December 2023 (UTC)
 * So with those sources would the song be ok for an article? Rockboy1009 (talk) 22:17, 6 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Rockboy1009, yes, as long as you make the existence of a remix clear, I've edited my response above to include some examples you can compare with. Remsense  留  22:20, 6 December 2023 (UTC)

How to become a teahouse host
I am a lot more experienced than most editors here. Reason? I want to become a host here. How can I become a Teahouse host? What are the requirements? (I think I meet all of them and there’s no way where I would be presented as not even close). I will reach 500 edits today or tomorrow, which increases my chance of meeting all requirements. Equalwidth (C) 05:00, 3 December 2023 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure why you assume there's a set of requirements per se. However, are you truly experienced enough to locate the "Become a host" button at the top of this page, and then click it? That may send you on your way, cheers! :) Remsense  留  05:04, 3 December 2023 (UTC)
 * It is invisible. Equalwidth (C) 05:06, 3 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Oh! in that case, I would go to this page. Good luck. Remsense  留  05:07, 3 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Just need to make 45 more edits and I will become one! Equalwidth (C) 05:09, 3 December 2023 (UTC)
 * …500 mainspace edits? That’s a little strict so for that case the criteria will be 500 edits across all namespaces. Equalwidth (C) 06:05, 3 December 2023 (UTC)
 * @Equalwidth, nothing special happens when you sign up as a Teahouse host, so you don't need to worry about getting a certain number of edits to clear this imaginary bar. There isn't anything stopping you from answering other people's questions here, no matter what your edit count or account age is, so if you can help someone, just go ahead and do so! -- asilvering (talk) 06:27, 3 December 2023 (UTC)
 * I’ve successfully registered myself as a Teahouse host after reaching 500 edits. Equalwidth (C) 07:42, 3 December 2023 (UTC)

"I am a lot more experienced than most editors here." Well, no. The most active of Teahouse Hosts have been such for years, had accounts longer than that, and number their edits in the thousands (I am at >52,000 edits). That said, welcome! Teahouse needs more active Hosts. Start by offering advice only when you are sure your replies are correct David notMD (talk) 06:01, 3 December 2023 (UTC)
 * I am a lot more experienced than most editors asking questions here Equalwidth (C) 06:03, 3 December 2023 (UTC)
 * I would hope so, this is a place for newcomers to ask questions! Remsense  留  06:05, 3 December 2023 (UTC)
 * What is essential is having enough knowledge and experience to ANSWER questions correctly. David notMD (talk) 06:24, 3 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Yes, I am concerned looking at their talk page: it seems to consist of an already extant track record of receiving advice and help from more experienced editors, which is met with silence at best and unequivocal disagreement usually. Plus the editing behavior I've happened to also see, featuring pretty arbitrary references to policy whether actually read beforehand or not. I would really recommend keeping an eye on this person's advice in the Teahouse, unfortunately. The enthusiasm is good, but. Remsense  留  07:55, 3 December 2023 (UTC)
 * , becoming a Teahouse host is not a reward or a badge of honor. It is taking on an obligation to do your very best to provide friendly, accurate and informative answers to the questions that editors ask here. And to be willing to learn yourself. I have been editing for 14-1/2 years and have contributed to the Teahouse since its earliest days. I have made over 10,000 edits to the Teahouse. Do not be quick to answer a question unless you are highly confident that your answer is correct. This is not a race or a game. There are many questions that I do not answer because this is a very complex project, and after over 100,000 edits to Wikipedia, there are still aspects of the project that I do not fully understand. It is far better to remain silent than to give out incorrect information. Cullen328 (talk) 10:34, 3 December 2023 (UTC)
 * I knew all that… Equalwidth (C) 10:36, 3 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Well, if you "knew all that", go ahead. But if you see that your Teahouse replies are being subsequently criticized/correct, consider stopping. Competency is required for all aspects of Wikipedia (WP:CIR), and can lead to you being indefinitely blocked if you persist and are consistently wrong. David notMD (talk) 17:57, 3 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Just to note that Equalwidth was blocked for a week earlier today, for disruptive editing., you'd still be welcome to help out at the Teahouse in the future, preferably when you have more experience, but it seems you need to work on your own behaviour first, before seeking to help others. Cordless Larry (talk) 18:07, 3 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Yeah, and then there's this quotation from their user page:
 * which does not bode well for their complying with WP:Verifiability. Mathglot (talk) 09:22, 5 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Yes, they also have a userspace essay about how sourcing isn't important, and in their unblock request, mentioned their intention to restore a talk page notice that tells editors not to tell him to read up on policies. I've been trying to help this editor for the last two weeks because they do seem to have a good-faith desire to contribute, but much like this thread, all they do is insist that "they already know" and refuse to change.
 * Please notify me if they return here after their week long block expires. They've been rather prolific in giving bad answers and advice both on at the tea house and across the project, so they really shouldn't be fielding questions here any time soon. Thank you. Sergecross73   msg me  14:21, 5 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Sergecross73, to sum it up, it seems like they have good faith in themselves, but not in anyone else. Remsense  留  21:07, 6 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Pretty much. It's like he wants to start a career as a Trainer, but refuses to spend any time doing the jobs he hopes train people in; commendable to want to help people, but entirely ineffective because there's no base of experience to pull from. Sergecross73   msg me  23:48, 6 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Pretty much. It's like he wants to start a career as a Trainer, but refuses to spend any time doing the jobs he hopes train people in; commendable to want to help people, but entirely ineffective because there's no base of experience to pull from. Sergecross73   msg me  23:48, 6 December 2023 (UTC)

Edit History
Why when I look at the edit history of some pages, some revisions are crossed out? Subariba (talk) 01:25, 7 December 2023 (UTC)


 * See WP:REVDEL. --Tagishsimon (talk) 01:27, 7 December 2023 (UTC)

Question about consensus
Hello! I've been involved in several discussions about moves or mergers over the years where it seems that a lone dissenting voice causes the discussion to end in "no consensus", which is as good as saying the result is "oppose": i.e., nothing changes. Is this a general rule? I know it's not exactly a vote or numbers game, but if say two people support with arguments and one person opposes with arguments (and I'm not even getting into the realm of flawed or simplistic arguments!), does this generally yield "no consensus", thus killing whatever the proposal is? Is there something more technical the closing editor/administrator looks at than this? (I admit that it has been frustrating to me personally, and I'm just looking for some clarity. In more than one case, an editor has "opposed" one time and then never participated in the discussion ever again; this seems to be an easy way for any editor to kill thoughtful proposals: oppose and then ghost). Thanks! Wolfdog (talk) 00:01, 6 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Hello @Wolfdog and welcome to the teahouse. A few thoughts from me:
 * "no consensus" may effectively look as "oppose" in result, but what it really means is to "keep the status quo".
 * if say two people support with arguments and one person opposes with arguments: I think Wikipedia expects those who participate in the discussion to engage in debate and conversation as a way to build consensus. If people just "vote" and not engage with each other, then no consensus is generated.
 * an editor has "opposed" one time and then never participated in the discussion ever again: I agree that is very frustrating. I personally would not care much from the opposition. Provide your rationale in full would add more credit to you when the clerk closes the discussion.
 * Cheers, -- The Lonely Pather (talk) 01:49, 6 December 2023 (UTC)
 * @Wolfdog Achieving consensus is an important Wikipedia policy as described at WP:Consensus. It would be unusual in my experience for a single dissenting voice to prevent good arguments from winning through and we would almost never delete articles via WP:AfD if that were the case, since someone almost always wants retention. Discussions about moves are more likely to end in a decision to retain the status quo because one solution is just to create a WP:Redirect at the alternative title. If you have specific cases where you think the result was ridiculous, then the policy page describes how that can be challenged. Mike Turnbull (talk) 11:49, 6 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks for both of your responses. I think the feeling is more frustration than ridiculousness. It's more the "ghosting" that irritates me -- I'm always up for continuing the conversation (though I can think of one recent time when I was infoloaded or "TLDR'd" out of all energy to continue participating!). Obviously I feel the results of certain discussions were not for the best, but that goes without saying whenever I've been the nominator. Sometimes that lone opponent gets ya! Wolfdog (talk) 02:02, 7 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Wolfdog, It's definitely something that's played (and ultimately, sometimes misplayed) by ear—but there's a certain point where everyone has made their respective points and no one has been particularly swayed or outmoded among the interlocutors or audience, and at that point it's often best to close as no consensus. Usually, I think closers are pretty okay at sensing when one interlocutor was just wordier as opposed to having a better point or having more agreement, but it's certainly frustrating when that's not the case. Remsense  留  03:03, 7 December 2023 (UTC)

Length
How long should a new article be before being published? LouieLumber (talk) 00:30, 7 December 2023 (UTC)


 * There is not really any length requirements, but you should make sure that the article could be expanded beyond a single paragraph. i.e. there is enough info published in reliable sources to make a whole article about it. Ca <sup style="display:inline-flex;rotate:7deg;">talk to me!  00:38, 7 December 2023 (UTC)


 * That - "you should make sure that the article could be expanded beyond a single paragraph" - is poor - which is to say wrong, invented, unhelpful - advice from User:Ca. There is no policy on length, beyond that an article must convey context, avoid being nonsense. Article subjects must be notable, and notability should be evidenced by reliable sources. That's it. A draft like Draft:Dave Nayak is perfectly long enough, but sadly the subject is not supported by reliable sources. --Tagishsimon (talk) 00:42, 7 December 2023 (UTC)
 * An article that cannot be expanded beyond a single paragraph is unlikely to be notable. Ca <sup style="display:inline-flex;rotate:7deg;">talk to me!  01:06, 7 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you! LouieLumber (talk) 01:17, 7 December 2023 (UTC)
 * LouieLumber, there is another angle on this, which is that some topics which are notable, just don't have that much information out about them, so are unlikely to expand much. These could either be left as permastubs, or WP:NOPAGE may apply, which is to say, it might not make sense to have a small stand-alone page for it, but might make more sense to group it with other, small articles about related niche topics, and make a collective article about the group topic that covers all of the related, smaller subtopics on one page. Mathglot (talk) 01:55, 7 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Articles can be short, yet convey salient facts and are referenced. Wikipedia has a rating of "Stub" for articles that are accepted but short, with the hope that other editors will add more content. David notMD (talk) 03:39, 7 December 2023 (UTC)

Alethea
Hi, I recently removed an image of Jodie Foster from Alethea. As stated in my edit summary, I don't think that the image is appropriate. Another editor reverted my removal of the image (with no edit summary). Could someone here please take a look and adjudicate. Thank you. 76.14.122.5 (talk) 22:36, 5 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Someone else removed the image. Personally, I agree it does not belong. David notMD (talk) 23:22, 5 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Would like to comment? Cremastra (talk) 23:23, 5 December 2023 (UTC)
 * please discuss this at Talk:Alethea RudolfRed (talk) 01:06, 6 December 2023 (UTC)
 * I added the image because the character that she played was the reason for the increase in usage of the name that year and the following year. The picture is of her as a child actress during that time frame. A picture of her in the Alethea role would be preferable but I didn’t find a free image on the Wikimedia commons. Nonetheless, I think a picture of her at the age she played the character is appropriate. I object to the removal of the image and reverted the edits. Bookworm857158367 (talk) 04:31, 6 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Reversing my opinion, as the temporary increase in popularity of the name circa 1973 is linked in the text to the appearance of Foster's so-named character in a popular TV show, even if only for one episode. David notMD (talk) 07:50, 6 December 2023 (UTC)
 * @David notMD Since the ref is imdb, and doesn't say anything about temporary increase in popularity of the name circa 1973, how about removing everything about Foster-Athea from that article? Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 08:45, 6 December 2023 (UTC)
 * The use of the name increased after the TV appearance, per the other mentions in the article. I continue to object. Bookworm857158367 (talk) 13:57, 6 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Correlation doesn't necessarily mean causation. And just because something is online, it doesn't follow it's a good WP-source. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 14:31, 6 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Started a discussion at Talk:Alethea. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 08:50, 6 December 2023 (UTC)
 * I have no skin in this game (my daughter's name is Rachel). David notMD (talk) 08:57, 6 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Hm, now you made me remember Althea, but apparently that name is unrelated. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 09:31, 6 December 2023 (UTC)
 * I removed the image again. The link is extremely tenuous, and mostly original research. The name and Jodie foster aren't related, or Jodie would be the name we are talking about. Bookworms should probably let someone else make edits to the page Big Money Threepwood (talk) 05:28, 7 December 2023 (UTC)

Bot advice
Hi, I would like to know whether a bot would be able to do this particular task or not. The task is to replace the existing format with the template like I did here on my sandbox to explain it better:

The following articles: 2004 Andhra Pradesh Legislative Assembly election and 2009 Andhra Pradesh Legislative Assembly election require these template changes. Since I am finding this monotonous task quite difficult to do it myself, I am looking for help probably a bot might help I believe? Any info or help is appreciated. Thank you 456legend  (talk) 12:52, 6 December 2023 (UTC)


 * Hi 456legend, Welcome to the Teahouse. I think this will be better answered at Bot requests. Cheers <3 Jeraxmoira (talk) 20:19, 6 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you 456legend  (talk) 05:53, 7 December 2023 (UTC)

Alt account
I am the alt account of User:TrademarkedTarantula, and I'm aware that sockpuppeting is a problem. How do I verify that I'm the same person? Thanks, TrademarkedTWOrantula (talk) 06:41, 7 December 2023 (UTC)


 * @TrademarkedTWOrantula: Hello! You should use the template on your alt account and disclose that you operate that alt account on your main account's user page (the latter by using your main account). You may also find Sockpuppetry pretty useful as it will tell you about legitimate uses for alternative accounts, as well as explaining inappropriate uses of alt accounts. Happy editing! –  64andtim  ( talk ) 06:48, 7 December 2023 (UTC)

How to create a new style2 template for infobox?
I want to create a new color scheme for the Style2 part of an infobox, like the "M2 M6" on this page. I'm a bit dumbfounded. Thanks in advance! Eticangaaa (talk) 11:36, 7 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Hi @Eticangaaa. I am frustrated by the fact that whoever made this system apparently neglected to document this, but the style2 options for Istanbul Metro seem to be defined at Module:Adjacent stations/Istanbul Metro. <b style="font-family:Monospace">-- Maddy from Celeste (WAVEDASH)</b> 12:10, 7 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you very much! Apparently the style i was wishing to create has already been made :P Eticangaaa (talk) 12:25, 7 December 2023 (UTC)

Tilderman Casteel
What or who is this? Elf clark (talk) 14:56, 7 December 2023 (UTC)


 * Wikipedia has no article on Tilderman Casteel and a web search draws a blank. Why are you asking? Shantavira|feed me 15:12, 7 December 2023 (UTC)

Long-running AfD discussion
Hello! A few weeks ago, my new article Isaac Saul was nominated for deletion, and since then I have been trying to defend its notability. However, after the first few days, the discussion quickly dropped off. Now, it has already been relisted twice with no further discussion, and it will be relisted a third time tomorrow. I worry that this article has been buried under a pile of newer AfDs, and that it will remain in limbo indefinitely. Is there anything I can do to make this process move faster? Thanks, Mover of molehills move me 14:20, 7 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Relisting is an Administrator's option to solicit more comments. Most likely the same Admin is the one who will make the decision. And soon. David notMD (talk) 16:15, 7 December 2023 (UTC)

Entry on Gilbert Stuart (artist)
The bibliography should include a major, original source on Gilbert Stuart (1999) which is first cited in footnote 14 and appears elsewhere. Would someone please make the change? I don't know how to do it. Thank you. DEvans2 (talk) 15:00, 7 December 2023 (UTC)


 * @DEvans2: ✅! GoingBatty (talk) 15:34, 7 December 2023 (UTC)
 * In the future, it's better to make these requests at the talk page of the article instead of at the Teahouse. Esolo5002 (talk) 16:25, 7 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Many thanks. DEvans2 (talk) 17:35, 7 December 2023 (UTC)

Mobile table of contents inaccuracy
The first item in the table of contents that appears on mobile for the article Photographic print toning is “Sepia tone,” which I assume was maybe a previous title before a move. I’m having trouble finding how to correct this. It only seems apparent on mobile — on desktop the article title does not appear in the table of contents, it just starts with the first section header. Thank you! Wow Mollu (talk) 03:21, 7 December 2023 (UTC)
 * https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photographic_print_toning
 * That mobile view is showing the same table of contents as the desktop version, using a browser. Are you using a browser or one of the Wikipedia apps to view the article?  RudolfRed (talk) 03:52, 7 December 2023 (UTC)
 * You’re right! Now that I reload it, it shows the article title. I came to this article from the disambiguation page for Sepia. On that page, under Color, the link for Sepia tone redirects to a section within Photographic print toning. When it does, the first item in the mobile app table of contents displays as “Sepia tone” instead of the article title. This seems a bit confusing, no? Since the Sepia tone section is way down the page, nowhere near the top. And tapping on that item brings you to the top of the article, which is not about sepia. Wow Mollu (talk) 05:27, 7 December 2023 (UTC)
 * @Wow Mollu, you're being correctly redirected. There isn't a separate article for sepia tone, it's just part of the article on photographic print toning, so the link takes you right to the part that has the relevant information, rather than landing you at the top so you wonder why on earth you got there. I can't explain why tapping on the item brings you to the top of the article, though. That doesn't happen to me, so I wonder if it's something strange about your mobile browser. -- asilvering (talk) 12:06, 7 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Sorry, I’m not explaining very clearly. Yes, the redirect works great! It brings me to the right section. I guess what realizing is it’s more of an issue (IMO) with how the mobile interface is populated. Normally in the mobile app, the top item in the TOC is the article title. When I use the redirect link Sepia tone, it brings me to the correct section of the article called “Sepia toning”, however when I open up the TOC panel, the first item in the TOC reads Sepia tone (the name of the redirect) not Photographic print toning, the actual name of the article. So using the redirect link in the mobile app, the TOC reads: Sepia tone, Chemical toning, Selenium toning, Sepia toning, Metal replacement… etc. This happens with other redirects too, I now see! All this to say, this is probably not a question for teahouse, it seems to have more to do with the way the mobile app is set up. I just find it confusing that the title of the article is changed in the table of contents when you get to an article from a redirect. Wow Mollu (talk) 15:13, 7 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Oh hm, now I understand, and I'm not sure where to send you for a better chance at finding someone with a solution. Wikimedia Apps? -- asilvering (talk) 16:32, 7 December 2023 (UTC)
 * I cannot reproduce this on Android using the app. I suggest you post it on mw:Talk:Wikimedia Apps, and include details of your phone OS, app version, etc. I have had helpful responses from there. -- Verbarson talkedits 18:30, 7 December 2023 (UTC)

Gromphadorhina picea
I can't find any reliable sources for this, its a hissing cockroach that is commonly mistaken for other hissing cockroaches which is why there is little to no information about it, do you guys have any information about it? Username but name (talk) 15:12, 6 December 2023 (UTC)


 * @Username but name, try asking at Reference desk/Science. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 15:25, 6 December 2023 (UTC)
 * @Username but name I asked Bing's new AI-driven search engine and it gave me this source as well as a summary of other sources. Whether that's reliable or not is debatable. Mike Turnbull (talk) 16:31, 6 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you so much, this seems pretty reliable as i've seen some things on this site before and they have all been true. Username but name (talk) 19:14, 7 December 2023 (UTC)

There is a problem in writing articles in English
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yadav_Ramkripal

Can't write any article in English.Ramkripal YadvG (talk) 16:31, 7 December 2023 (UTC)


 * what are you asking exactly? Babysharkboss2 was here!!  ( Talk to me ) ( Waif Me! ) 17:16, 7 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Wikipedias are available in many languages. Choose yours at List of Wikipedias. Shantavira|feed me 20:03, 7 December 2023 (UTC)

New and intimidated, could use some advice and encouragement.
Here's my situation. I could use something else to do to pass the time. I lost the taste for computer games quite a while ago, so that's a non-starter. Never been particularly outdoorsy, so all the outdoors things are a non-starter as well. Youtube's getting stale and transforming more and more into TV as time goes on, and I dislike TV so much that I haven't watched it in 12-14 years. While I do love to read, when it's the only thing to do, it starts to get old. Not to mention for an unknown reason I can't read a book more than 2-3 hours a day otherwise place names and character names begin to mean nothing to me.

I figured that I had this Wikipedia account I'm not using, so why not help out Wikipedia?

The thing is, even though I've looked through the new editors' tutorial and the introduction to contributing, I still feel completely intimidated! I'm worried I'm gonna mess something up and be told to go away and never come back. I do have some MediaWiki experience, so I feel confident in actually executing an edit, the markup isn't the scary thing to me. But I'm concerned I'm gonna break some rule or policy I don't know about or I may be interpreting differently than everybody else. Again, it's intimidating.

Advice? Thoughts? Kilroy Was Here 1856 (talk) 12:25, 4 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Hi @Kilroy Was Here 1856, Welcome to Wikipedia. You can begin your editing journey by visiting the Community portal and fixing articles with maintenance tags. You must not be scared to edit, if you do something wrong (not repeatedly), someone will definitly notify you about it and rectify the error. If you have copyediting skills, improve the quality of Wikipedia articles..If you need any assistance or have doubts, you can always reach out to me or any other editor or put up a question in the Teahouse. Leoneix (talk) 12:59, 4 December 2023 (UTC)
 * @Kilroy Was Here 1856 WP:TASKS, is also a good place to find tasks initially. Leoneix (talk) 13:06, 4 December 2023 (UTC)
 * @Leoneix Thanks for the help, those two pages definitely help. I feel a little less anxious about this whole editing thing now. Kilroy Was Here 1856 (talk) 20:26, 4 December 2023 (UTC)
 * You might make a mistake (which will get fixed by someone after you), but you won't break anything. One of the Wikipedia editing guidelines is WP:BE BOLD, so just go edit, and don't worry! Mathglot (talk) 09:44, 5 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Hi @Kilroy Was Here 1856, I was in the same position a few months ago - there are so many policies and pages that it can be overwhelming for a new user! I would encourage you to find articles about things you are interested in and start small. I learned a lot from jumping in and starting, like add a fact to a stub article with a citation, fix typos or grammar, or fix markup that displays an error in edit mode. My suggestion is to explore categories in your interests and find tasks you feel comfortable doing. If there is an area you would like to learn, there are lots of friendly editors who can point you in the right direction. Good luck and welcome! NatFee (talk) 16:58, 6 December 2023 (UTC)
 * @NatFee Thank you for the advice and encouragement. When you break editing down like that it does seem a lot more accessible and achievable. Thanks again! Kilroy Was Here 1856 (talk) 15:06, 7 December 2023 (UTC)
 * As others have been saying, the general policy here is to WP:Be Bold, and sometimes bold changes are wrong, but that’s what everybody else is here for. I totally get the intimation. It seems like everybody has every policy linked and memorized and locked & loaded, but the truth is, those with the most knowledge self-select for making corrections! That’s what’s kinda great about it. It doesn’t mean you’re so far behind. Also small tip, don’t be too discouraged if one of your good-faith edits gets caught by a vandalism filter or bot and gets reverted. It can be discouraging, but it happens a lot and doesn’t mean you did anything wrong. Best to just chat with the person who made the revert over on their talk page and clear it up. This place really benefits from new editors, and there are doubtless many projects waiting for your interest, expertise and attention. Welcome! Wow Mollu (talk) 06:08, 7 December 2023 (UTC)
 * @Wow Mollu Thanks for your reassurance. It does seem like everybody"s got everything at their fingertips doesn't it? Glad to know it's more of a process of just applying the knowledge I already have. Your tips regarding the filters and edit reversions are welcomed and appreciated. Kilroy Was Here 1856 (talk) 15:11, 7 December 2023 (UTC)
 * What a good question! I can share a little bit about my experiences along these lines. I started editing in part because of a chronic illness has made other activities that I previously enjoyed more difficult. Previous work and hobbies which involved reading, research, and writing have been put somewhat beyond my reach. But the piecemeal nature of editing Wikipedia has let me enjoy parts of what I feel like I'm missing, without exhausting my limited energy.
 * I have been editing with focus for less than a year now, and there certainly have been a lot of frustrations. I've encountered plenty of editors who are unfair, belligerent wrecking balls. And they tend to be loud, and can have the reflex to talk down to new editors, or to people wandering onto pages they have some investment in. And this attitude is unpleasantly brash and macho, deeply invested in some kind of social darwinist meritocracy. However, these editors tend of be loud, and they tend to be easy to identify.
 * There are many others who are thrilled at every little addition, who are tremendously patient, even though they explain the same things over and over again, or do the same little fixes repetitiously. Editors who operate like this tend not to stick out as much, tend to be quieter, less argumentative, and so it's easy to see just the scary ones.
 * I've personally gotten a lot out of offering people help, putting my inexperience up front, asking lots of questions, and I've learned to disengage more quickly once it seems like someone isn't going to be welcoming, isn't interested in collaboration. It's been tremendously satisfying, even with my reasonably little experience, to be able to help people out who have even less experience. It seems that the need to find ways to help new editors stick around is really underprioritized, so if there are tiny bits that I can do to make it feel welcoming—and to make the less welcoming editors a bit easier to ignore—that's very satisfying.
 * As for more practical advice, choosing a few types of tasks that you want to do can help to build confidence, and can limit the policy areas you have to be hyper-familiar with. I got a lot out of setting myself goals like "add ten short descriptions a day for a week" or "copyedit two pages a day for a week" to help push myself to actually practice specific tasks; I will also decide to focus on a particular topic area for a few days, which makes it a little bit easier to get things done. It's good to recognize that different types of tasks will in some ways open cans of worms as far as how much you have to read about, and to understand that if you're trying a type of edit, that may be a much bigger investment of time and energy than something you've done a dozen times already. I've gotten a lot out of looking over page histories to see the dynamics of how changes happen on pages, what sort of things are likely to cause conflict, what mistakes are commonly made, but also to identify what sort of edits by others seem valuable to you. When an editor makes a contribution that I find valuable in that way, I often click through to their user/talk/contributions pages to see what I can learn about their workflow, because sometimes I can learn valuable tips just by virtually shadowing someone else. I also find it has been useful to build a personal list of pages in the manual of style, or some lists, or essays by editors that I either frequently refer to, or are just inspiring/motivating in some way.
 * It has helped me to think of this as a hobby; I build patterns of investment in my work, I explore how others engage, and I try to set myself goals. A woodworker who tries to reinvent the wheel with every new project, not consulting how others have accomplished tasks before, and not investing in follow through will likely walk away from the half finished jewelry box, and wobbly chair, and dull tools pretty unsatisfied. There's an overwhelming amount to learn, but we can understand that every step along the way is just another small task, and that we never get to understand or master every part of it. Best of luck, apologies for being a bit long-winded, but I hope this has been helpful, and I'm very happy to help in any further way I can! Handpigdad (talk) 20:26, 7 December 2023 (UTC)

Protection of Talk:2023 Israel–Hamas war
Can someone please explain how it's allowed by policy to extended-confirmed protect Talk:2023 Israel–Hamas war, and where anybody is supposed to discuss changes to this article if they're not extended-confirmed? Kk.urban (talk) 20:33, 7 December 2023 (UTC)


 * There's a false notice on the talk page that says "Please discuss any changes on the talk page; you may submit an edit request to ask for uncontroversial changes supported by consensus." Kk.urban (talk) 20:35, 7 December 2023 (UTC)


 * Per the notice, it "can be applied to combat disruption, if semi-protection has proven to be ineffective." Presumably semi-protection has proven to be ineffective. The Israel–Hamas war has to be one of the most controversial things happening in the world right now, so it's not surprising. --Tagishsimon (talk) 20:39, 7 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Sure, it's very controversial, but then where can anyone discuss the article? Kk.urban (talk) 20:41, 7 December 2023 (UTC)


 * Use the "submit an edit request" link in the notice to submit an edit request. RudolfRed (talk) 20:41, 7 December 2023 (UTC)
 * @RudolfRed OK, thank you. Can I use that to submit an edit request to the talk page? Kk.urban (talk) 20:42, 7 December 2023 (UTC)
 * No, the link will take you to Requests_for_page_protection/Edit RudolfRed (talk) 20:43, 7 December 2023 (UTC)
 * @RudolfRed Can I use Requests_for_page_protection/Edit to submit an edit request to the talk page? I want to edit the talk page, not the article. Kk.urban (talk) 20:44, 7 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Honestly, I don't know what the rules are, since this talk page was protected due to Arbitration Enforcement. I suggest staying away from this and other contentious topics until you have EC rights.  But, if you want to proceed, you can try submitting an edit request for editing the talk page and see what the answer is.  RudolfRed (talk) 21:20, 7 December 2023 (UTC)
 * , you need to have 500 edits to contribute to that talk page. You are 2/3 of the way there. The restriction was imposed by, because all articles having to do with the Arab–Israeli conflict have stringent behavioral restrictions due to chronic disruption. That talk page was being disrupted by newer editors. It's a fact of life. Cullen328 (talk) 21:25, 7 December 2023 (UTC)

Enough sources?
Subject is Maurice Novoa, are there enough sources here;

https://sifu.maurice.net.au/wp-content/uploads/2023/07/The-Latin-Australian-Times.pdf https://sifu.maurice.net.au/wp-content/uploads/2023/07/El-Ecco.pdf

https://sifu.maurice.net.au/wp-content/uploads/2023/07/Sunraysia-Daily.pdf

https://sifu.maurice.net.au/wp-content/uploads/2023/07/Leader.pdf

https://sifu.maurice.net.au/wp-content/uploads/2023/07/Advertiser.pdf

https://el-espanol.news/wp-content/uploads/2023/11/EE-23-04-04.P13-copia.pdf

https://el-espanol.news/wp-content/uploads/2023/11/EE-23-09-12.P03.pdf

https://el-espanol.news/wp-content/uploads/2023/11/EE-23-09-26.P05-copia.pdf

https://el-espanol.news/wp-content/uploads/2023/11/EE-23-10-17.P31-copia.pdf

https://el-espanol.news/wp-content/uploads/2023/11/EE-23-07-18.P16-copia.pdf

https://brimbanknorthwest.starweekly.com.au/news/business-fights-to-recover-from-pandemic/

https://brimbanknorthwest.starweekly.com.au/news/providing-an-outlet/

https://brimbanknorthwest.starweekly.com.au/news/local-legend-honoured/

https://era.id/lifestyle/116299/masih-ingat-dengan-bule-australia-di-sinetron-jadul-cewekku-jutek-begini-kabarnya-sekarang

https://brimbanknorthwest.starweekly.com.au/news/from-albanvale-to-jakarta/

https://www.beritabulukumba.com/sport/53057/wing-chun-di-mata-sifu-maurice-tak-sekadar-seni-bela-diri-ada-cinta-dan-berbagi

https://kutip.co/10602/read/sifu-maurice-bangga-felix-leong-masuk-hall-of-fame-seni-beladiri-australasian-2023

https://kutip.co/10479/read/kisah-sifu-maurice-dari-seni-bela-diri-ubah-kehidupan-murid-hingga-masuk-serial-tv

https://www.elpais.com.uy/enlaces-patrocinados/mauricio-novoa-un-maestro-de-wing-chun-y-filantropo-destacado 159.196.225.157 (talk) 14:12, 7 December 2023 (UTC)


 * What matters if not the number of sources, but the content within the sources.
 * The things to consider when making ana article is:
 * Are the sources reliable? Do they come from a third party? Do the sources altogether have enough information to write an article about a given subject?
 * Not much volunteers are willing to read all the linked articles. Instead try giving the best three sources. Ca <sup style="display:inline-flex;rotate:7deg;">talk to me!  14:16, 7 December 2023 (UTC)
 * The first few appear to be primary sources based on the URL. You can still use them in uncontroversal situations but they will not contribute to notability. ✶Mitch  199811  ✶  14:41, 7 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Awards that are themselves not notable, i.e., not Wikipedia articles, can be listed, but do not contribute to the recipient's notability. Example "American Martial Arts Alliance Foundation Legends Hall of Honors." David notMD (talk) 16:13, 7 December 2023 (UTC)

Best 3 sources with most in-depth coverage

https://kutip.co/10479/read/kisah-sifu-maurice-dari-seni-bela-diri-ubah-kehidupan-murid-hingga-masuk-serial-tv

https://www.beritabulukumba.com/sport/53057/wing-chun-di-mata-sifu-maurice-tak-sekadar-seni-bela-diri-ada-cinta-dan-berbagi

https://www.elpais.com.uy/enlaces-patrocinados/mauricio-novoa-un-maestro-de-wing-chun-y-filantropo-destacado — Preceding unsigned comment added by 159.196.225.157 (talk) 21:33, 7 December 2023 (UTC)

Appropriate Sources
Greetings, I have been making article edits anonymously for awhile and decided to create an account. I have been researching and writing for about 11 years now on Pacific Northwest (US) transportation history. I thought I would take some of those new learnings and update the related wikipedia articles. I have been STRUGGLING with appropriate references, since at times my edits have been discarded. I assume published books are appropriate sources, but what about state historical society's online essays? (for which some of my edits were rejected in the past, including the one I did yesterday). What about online sites of newspapers and magazines? Most historical societies have a website with historical information enclosed, are those appropriate sources? (for which my edits at times were also rejected in the past). I will push ahead. Thanks for any information. Most Appreciated! PNWTransportHistory (talk) 01:26, 8 December 2023 (UTC)


 * @PNWTransportHistory generally speaking we don't accept blogs as reliable sources (see this all discussed in exhaustive detail at WP:RS), and I think most historical societies' online essays function effectively as blog posts. But that's only a "generally speaking" - it's really going to depend on the specific source. Online sites of newspapers and magazines are fine, so long as those newspapers and magazines are themselves reliable (eg, the NYT online is fine because the NYT is, but the NY Post is not fine and neither is its website). -- asilvering (talk) 03:10, 8 December 2023 (UTC)
 * I'd add the nuance that online postings hosted at a historical society's website are likely to be accepted, but when it's just a wordpress blog, even if it claims to be written by a subject matter expert and doesn't state anything extraordinary, it's more likely to be scrutinised. Folly Mox (talk) 03:26, 8 December 2023 (UTC)

How to add characters to specific categories when no discrete character page exists?
I want to update categories of neurodivergent fictional characters, but most of the characters I plan to add do not have discrete pages. NewerSouper (talk) 02:56, 8 December 2023 (UTC)


 * As far as I know this can only be done in a fairly restricted fashion; see WP:LISTRCAT (and more generally the rest of that page). It is possible to create redirects for characters, pointing to an appropriate page, and to categorise the redirects, but only into categories that pertain to the 'universe' or fictional setting in which the fictional characters are found. The example given in the LISTRCAT page is categorising minor Eastender's characters (UK soap opera) into Category:EastEnders characters], but not categorising them into, for example, Category:Fictional characters by occupation.


 * I don't know what you were planning by way of categorisation, but you need to take account of Categorizing redirects and the restrictions it places on such categorisations. You are not at liberty to start adding fictional characters which do not have articles, to categories outside their fictional setting. --Tagishsimon (talk) 03:10, 8 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you for the information, although I am confused on one thing. It seems to me that you are saying that putting characters without individual pages into the neurodivergent categories is not allowed, but most of the entries in those categories are exactly that. NewerSouper (talk) 03:44, 8 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Yes. It's always fun to come across corners of wikipedia where users pay not a blind bit of notice to the guidelines. Were you to want to discuss this oddity further, I'd recommend Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Redirect as being the most likely place to have an audience interested in the topic. --Tagishsimon (talk) 03:57, 8 December 2023 (UTC)

Draft:And The Music Plays On (Del Shannon album)
where can i find more sources for this article And The Music Plays On (Del Shannon album)? Samchristie05 (talk) 00:46, 8 December 2023 (UTC)


 * @Samchristie05 I would start with a simple google search, those might turn up a source or two that is reliable and secondary of the article subject. WP:NALBUM has useful information when it comes to the notability of the recording you are writing about. I have included some links below to help you find sources.
 * Seawolf35 <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">T--C 01:13, 8 December 2023 (UTC)
 * when i press RUNAWAY A Del Shannon Story & The Music of Del Shannon it said it's not preview Samchristie05 (talk) 01:57, 8 December 2023 (UTC)
 * when i press RUNAWAY A Del Shannon Story & The Music of Del Shannon it said it's not preview Samchristie05 (talk) 01:57, 8 December 2023 (UTC)


 * , as explained back in October, the person who hopes to create an article first looks for reliable sources, and, if they find some that are informative, then goes on to create an article. I sense that you're going about it backwards. -- Hoary (talk) 05:06, 8 December 2023 (UTC)

Request edit access tutorial
Excuse me, how do I request edit access as a user who hasn't made 500 edits yet? For example: I need to edit the "Foreign relations of Israel" page because the "Diplomatic relations" section contains inaccuracies. Underdwarf58 (talk) 06:53, 8 December 2023 (UTC)


 * In most cases, you shouldn't need to request edit access – you can submit an edit request using the edit request wizard and an editor with the required permissions will make the edit on your behalf. Tollens (talk) 06:55, 8 December 2023 (UTC)
 * ok thanks Underdwarf58 (talk) 06:56, 8 December 2023 (UTC)

Public Article
Hi,

I don't know know how to fix and changes to meet the requirements of Wikipedia. May request Wikipedia to help me edit, change and fix what they stated in my article so it can be list in Wikipedia and go to public?

Thank You Sincerely,

Hiwakari Itsumo Hiwakariitsumo1901 (talk) 11:01, 8 December 2023 (UTC)


 * @Hiwakariitsumo1901: I've already answered this at the AfC HD; please don't ask the same question in multiple places, as it wastes volunteer time. -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 11:09, 8 December 2023 (UTC)

Post creation
Hello, I created a page about a topic and incorrectly copied information from another page relating too it, I have since removed the information and resubmitted the page for publish but I can not tell weather it has ben denied again or if it will be in the future. Thanks. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:Mercury_Cougar_(eighth_generation) Luftwaffespectre (talk) 04:43, 8 December 2023 (UTC)


 * It shows at the top your draft is still waiting for review. It just shows the old decline messages underneath until (and if) the page is approved. AKFkrewfamKF1 (talk) 04:50, 8 December 2023 (UTC)
 * @Luftwaffespectre Hi! There are numerous issues and it is most likely getting denied. The article is not encyclopedic. There is already an article related to Mercury Cougar, you could have just added info about this new generation there. Apart from this, the writing style in the draft is not favorable for wikipedia. I suggest you to go through WP:PG to understand our guidlines. Happy editing! Leoneix (talk) 04:53, 8 December 2023 (UTC)
 * To add to this, I was going to say something about the sources, considering one of them lead to a website my browser marked as "unsafe." People do not want viruses you know. AKFkrewfamKF1 (talk) 04:57, 8 December 2023 (UTC)
 * specifically the first source. AKFkrewfamKF1 (talk) 04:58, 8 December 2023 (UTC)
 * I clicked all the external links on the page, I use Firefox, and I did not get any such warnings. It may be a simple HTTPS cert expiry from the description you have given, but I will not assume one way or the other, just making clear that it is often not a matter of malicious hosts. Remsense  留  05:00, 8 December 2023 (UTC)
 * I use OperaGX, so maybe it is my browser. AKFkrewfamKF1 (talk) 05:04, 8 December 2023 (UTC)
 * still, it doesn't help with the source's credibility. AKFkrewfamKF1 (talk) 05:05, 8 December 2023 (UTC)
 * I added the information to the main article with accurate sourcing from the NTHSA, do I need to remove the draft article, if so how do I do that? Luftwaffespectre (talk) 05:18, 8 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Add at the top. --Tagishsimon (talk) 05:20, 8 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you very much, it appears to have been deleted, I'm still quite new to editing Wikipedia . Luftwaffespectre (talk) 05:32, 8 December 2023 (UTC)
 * If it is to be removed, then it may be for different reasons. Babysharkboss2 was here!!  ( Talk to me ) ( Waif Me! ) 13:54, 8 December 2023 (UTC)

Can I send an old fashioned check in order to get my donation to Wikipedia?
Donation question Jasonmtnbiker (talk) 14:34, 8 December 2023 (UTC)


 * Hi, Jasonmtnbiker, welcome to the Teahouse! This is more of a place for help from volunteers about editing Wikipedia; we don't really have much of anything to do with donations. To read more about donation options and ways to give, check out this link: https://donate.wikimedia.org/wiki/Ways_to_Give#Checks_&_money_orders_(via_mail). Thanks! Writ Keeper &#9863;&#9812; 14:36, 8 December 2023 (UTC)

Does being a fan count as conflict of interest?
I read the conflict of interest stuff, and don't think it does. But I'm not completely sure as it isn't very clear on this. Not related in any other way to them. 2603:6011:5:C53A:54C1:6246:A502:4605 (talk) 04:20, 8 December 2023 (UTC)


 * If that were the case, we'd all have conflicts of interest due to editing articles regarding topics we are deeply interested in. No—conflicts of interest amount to personal circumstances of a kind where it might be difficult to expect the average person not to express consistent bias in their tone, or in their judgement and synthesis of sources. For most adults, it is a wholly distinct, much deeper thing than fandom as generally experienced, I reckon.


 * Think more "my boss Mr. W needs greater exposure for our firm ABC Corp or we're doomed" or "the situation in my hometown DEFville is totally wretched due to XYZ factor". One may have a conflict of interest when editing articles directly related to Mr. W, ABC Corp, DEFville, or XYZ, etc., but ultimately that begins as a personal judgement—with the exception of direct payments for editing, which must be disclosed.


 * In all likelihood, if you care about accurately representing sources, you're going to be fine. Cheers! Remsense  留  04:39, 8 December 2023 (UTC)
 * No. I can say from experience. I made an article of a group I am clearly a fan of, the name of their fandom is even in my username. And yet, AFC approved it, and nobody else has marked it for deletion.
 * Remsense gives a very good explanation. AKFkrewfamKF1 (talk) 05:02, 8 December 2023 (UTC)
 * god I'd hope not, or the draft I made would be toast! But no, being a fan of something doesn't mean WP:COI. Generally, COI would be things like, a member of a school, a band member, or just anyone writing or fixing a page about themselves. If fans writing would count as Conflict of interest, then we'd kinda loose WP:NPOV. Babysharkboss2 was here!!  ( Talk to me ) ( Waif Me! ) 14:58, 8 December 2023 (UTC)
 * This question does not have an easy answer and it depends entirely on the nature and the depth of the fandom, and the specific behavior associated with that fandom, and the specific article. For example, I was once a mountaineer and long believed that Reinhold Messner is the greatest mountaineer. In recent years, I have thought that perhaps Nirmal Purja is the greatest climber. But you will see me making few if any edits to either article. Neutral editors should be working on both articles. Cullen328 (talk)\

Improving Sources on Article
Hi, hope you're all doing well. I am currently working on my very first Wikipedia article and was seeking some guidance in regards to sources. My article was not accepted because I need to incorporate more references.

These are the references I currently have:

big4bio (2022-03-24). "Spotlight Q&A: The Story of XiltriX - Big4Bio". big4bio.com. Retrieved 2023-12-06.

Schaefer, Nat (June 8, 2022). "Lab monitoring as a service for the pharmaceutical industry". Pharmaceutical Technology. Retrieved December 6, 2023.

These are some additional references I found that I was thinking of adding:

https://www.einsteinmed.edu/research/shared-facilities/shared-emergency-freezer-program/

https://www.labmanager.com/integrated-data-collection-helps-optimize-labs-25467

The question is, "Will these be enough?" Let me know if you have any suggestions. Thank you in advance, I appreciate your feedback. Andazimeta (talk) 21:54, 7 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Courtesy link: Draft:XiltriX North America --<b style="color: green;">Finngall</b> <sup style="color: #D4A017;">talk 22:05, 7 December 2023 (UTC)
 * @Andazimeta, big4bio looks like an aggregator, so not itself a reliable source, and even then it's an interview, so we don't consider it independent. The Pharm Tech article has the feel of being created from a press release, so not independent. The site looks really iffy, too, their about us says "Combined with our award-winning targeting technology built into our network of websites, we offer a unique end-to-end marketing solution combining insight, creativity, and cutting-edge AI-technology. Our marketing solution allows clients to identify, target and engage with prospects using access and ownership of our 40+ B2B media websites and their large sector specific audiences. With more reach, data targeting and first-party data than any other partner, we produce world-class campaigns for our clients. For more details on our technology-driven marketing solution"...to me that looks like a promotional agency. The Einstein article kind of looks like a med school discussing their own operations, which depends on the subject company's stuff, not independent. The LabManager is a bare mention? For me, as a non-med editor, this doesn't look like enough, no. Valereee (talk) 22:13, 7 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Hi, thank you taking the time to review the sources, that was very helpful insight. I'll do more research and see if there's any better sources I can find about the company. Do you have any suggestions as to what elements to look for in regards to identifying sources Wikipedia might deem to be more in-depth and reliable? Thank you again. Andazimeta (talk) 22:42, 7 December 2023 (UTC)
 * @Andazimeta, the minimum requirement is WP:NOTABILITY; for a business we'd like to see three instances of significant coverage in independent reliable secondary sources. All three need to meet all of those criteria: independent, reliable, secondary, and significant coverage. Valereee (talk) 22:47, 7 December 2023 (UTC)
 * I was able to find the Wikipedia page for a company that seems to have a similar business model as the one I am doing research about. The name of the company is "Elemental Machines." It looks like their page has three sources. Would you say they are a good example as I move forward with my research?  Andazimeta (talk) 23:17, 7 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I've nominated that article for deletion. It was an advert, failed WP:CORPDEPTH, several refs did not resolve to news stories. I would not advise emulating it. --Tagishsimon (talk) 23:42, 7 December 2023 (UTC)
 * I think you need to face the fact that 80% of Draft:XiltriX North America is an undisguised advert. The sections "Industries served", "Common parameters", "Security and compliance" all entirely unreferenced, all the sorts of things you'd expect to find on a corporate flyer. Wikipedia is not a venue for company marketing. If you cannot find good independent references to support the subject, than I urge you to add at the top of the draft such that it is marked for deletion. --Tagishsimon (talk) 23:52, 7 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you for the feedback, this has been really helpful. It makes sense why the sources are not showing. Andazimeta (talk) 17:04, 8 December 2023 (UTC)

Mahmudullah Hasan Biplob
2018. Free Fire Gamer MAhmudul Hasan Biplob (talk) 22:38, 8 December 2023 (UTC)


 * @MAhmudul Hasan Biplob So far, almost all your contributions have been reverted. That's not a good start! This is a serious project and if you are not here to make useful additions, please don't make any.... Mike Turnbull (talk) 22:44, 8 December 2023 (UTC)

Help needed
May i create an article for a person who’s information is only in 5-7 urdu books which is not even on the internet. A detailed discussion has been done in books published during 1910-1920. — Syed A. Hussain Quadri (talk) 17:43, 8 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Yes, if you consider the books to be reliable sources per WP:RS. Sources do not need to be in English, nor available on the internet. --Tagishsimon (talk) 17:50, 8 December 2023 (UTC)
 * If the books are, in-depth, reliable, and independent of the subject, you probably can. I'd recommend reading WP:BIO for more info. If the books were published within a short period (such as less than a year), please read WP:SUSTAINED.  Sincerely, Novo Tape (She/Her) My Talk Page  17:51, 8 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Go ahead. As per WP:OFFLINE, even though Wikipedia is an online encyclopedia, there is no distinction between using online versus offline sources. Just make sure you are using reliable sources. Thilsebatti (talk) 17:54, 8 December 2023 (UTC)
 * @Thilsebatti those are surely RS. — Syed A. Hussain Quadri (talk) 04:44, 9 December 2023 (UTC)

template map not working
undefined

 DSP 2092  (👤, 🗨️) 07:21, 9 December 2023 (UTC)


 * ✅ problem fixed. Some wikidata didn't have coordinates.  DSP 2092  (👤, 🗨️) 07:39, 9 December 2023 (UTC)

Preview warnings for unexpected parameters
When I preview an edit for ​ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Monty_Hall_problem, ​ I see

'Preview warning: Page using Template:WikiProject Mathematics with unexpected parameter "frequentlyviewed"

Preview warning: Page using Template:WikiProject Mathematics with unexpected parameter "field"'

in the WikiProjects section. ​ ​ ​ Do those warnings indicate an issue that should be fixed?

JumpDiscont (talk) 07:30, 9 December 2023 (UTC)


 * User:JumpDiscont, it looks like support for those template parameters was removed in 2020, but evidently they haven't all been cleaned up. You can delete the parameters from the instance of WikiProject Mathematics on Talk:Monty Hall problem if you'd like; seeing the template warning messages on edit and membership in the maintenance category are the only issues this causes. Folly Mox (talk) 09:33, 9 December 2023 (UTC)

Page Numbers
How do I add page numbers when citing books? LeónGonsalvesofGoa (talk) 04:01, 7 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Hi there! In the template, you can specify one page with the p parameter, or a range of pages with the pp parameter. If you need help using these parameters in the Visual editor or otherwise would like clarification, let me know!  Remsense  留  04:03, 7 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Can I use the template with an auto-generated citation? LeónGonsalvesofGoa (talk) 04:08, 7 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Yes! When you put in an ISBN or otherwise automatically generate a citation for a book, what it does is create a template under the hood. If you are using VisualEditor, do you see where you can specify page numbers? If not, check out Help:VisualEditor.<br style="margin-bottom:0.5em"/>If you are not using VisualEditor, you should be able to add the parameter with all the others! Don't hesitate to ask me for more help if you still need it. :)  Remsense  留  04:11, 7 December 2023 (UTC)
 * , if a book is cited at all, it's typically cited more than once. Rather than having two or more fully written out REF tags, differing only in page numbers, consider using the combination of (A) named references -- just once,  every other time -- and (B) Template:Rp. -- Hoary (talk) 07:29, 7 December 2023 (UTC)
 * There's already two good options here, but another alternative is to add the  parameter in your first citation (e.g.  ) and then when the citation comes up again, add   This'll end up looking like this:
 * Some scientists say apples are oranges. Other scientists say apples are lemons. ~ F4U (talk • they/it) 05:11, 9 December 2023 (UTC)
 * This alternative is a non-standard approach not mentioned in help or info pages, and I wouldn't recommend it, especially not for a new user. Instead, follow what said above, which reflects the recommended way of reusing references as explained in the Help page at Footnotes: using a source more than once. Mathglot (talk) 10:02, 9 December 2023 (UTC)

Does (Date missing) mean the date is unknown?
i have seen language pages that show the extinction date as (date missing), does it mean the date is unknown? 2001:448A:400C:1F9B:5D9E:5574:1A55:7DE9 (talk) 05:00, 9 December 2023 (UTC)


 * Probably. There are many such languages. You may find the language listed here as date unknown. Shantavira|feed me 11:19, 9 December 2023 (UTC)

Supportive suggestions for wikipedia fundraisers
I was not sure where to put this so I thought I would ask/suggest here. let me know the right place and I will bring up these supportive fundraising ideas there.

Anytime a person looks up a company name, where that company is on a list of companies with charity matching grants, they see a "Donate from this company and get a matching donation from the company" message during the fundraising period. Also There could be menu box/autocomplete textarea with "type your employers name to find out if they will match your donation". Bing Chat Copilot says, "about 22.3% of workers with a bachelor’s degree or higher worked for very large employers in 2020 ". That suggests that about 7 million employees with college degrees work for companies with some likeliness of charity matching. I'm making the weird, but likely assumption that people look up the companies they work for on wikipedia.

What is the right area at wikipedia to bring this suggestion and other suggestions for fundraising up?

Thanks! Treonsverdery (talk) 10:03, 9 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Hi! @Treonsverdery I suggest you to visit https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fundraising for more details. I have no knowledge on how fundraising works here, you may find some help in the meta fundraising page. Leoneix (talk) 10:52, 9 December 2023 (UTC)
 * , people can find out of their employers will match donations to the WMF at https://www.matchinggifts.com/wikimedia_iframe Rotideypoc41352 (talk · contribs) 13:02, 9 December 2023 (UTC)

confusion about the picture "pale blue dot "
where are the other planet in the picture 'pale blue dot' by voyager 1

113.21.229.37 (talk) 10:18, 9 December 2023 (UTC)


 * Hello, this is probably best asked at the article talk page, Talk:Pale Blue Dot. 331dot (talk) 10:21, 9 December 2023 (UTC)
 * As explained in the article, you will find them at Family Portrait (Voyager). Shantavira|feed me 11:33, 9 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Does it have to be in it? Could they be out of frame? Try the reference desk (WP:RD/S) Usedtobecool ☎️ 12:09, 9 December 2023 (UTC)
 * All the other planets in our solar system are indeed out of frame. Space is really big – even at the scale where Earth is less than a pixel across, the image isn't nearly big enough to cover the rest of the planets. As linked above, Family Portrait, which was created by combining several images together, does cover a wide enough field to capture the rest of the planets. Tollens (talk) 13:29, 9 December 2023 (UTC)

AFD'ing multiple articles in a single discussion
I might have come across it before, but I'm not entirely certain. However, is there a way to AfD multiple articles in a single discussion? I am looking at Muangchang United F.C., PPS.Phetchabun City F.C., Lookphorkhun United F.C., Look E San F.C.,Nonthaburi United F.C., Sing Ubon F.C., etc. Most of them fail WP:GNG. Jeraxmoira (talk) 05:36, 9 December 2023 (UTC)


 * There is – see WP:MULTIAFD for the details. Tollens (talk) 13:40, 9 December 2023 (UTC)

Revert war
There is an editor on the "Shungite" page that reverts my edits as soon as I put them up. There are now three reverts. On his last one, he wrote, "please discuss changes on the talk page before editing" - yet he has no comments on the talk page and gives no explanation as to why my edits needed to be reverted.

If you look at the "talk" page, you will see that I explained every change, and cited every source before the last revision. I am reverting it back, as he gave no input or reason for completely deleting my changes. I believe his is the original author and may feel ownership of this topic. I reverted it back - with an explanation as I is my practice. I anticipate that he will revert it again without explanation, and this becomes his fourth revision. MelroseReporter (talk) 13:04, 9 December 2023 (UTC)
 * This has all happened, I am not sure why there is such a rush. It is generally not considered apropos to be asked to discuss a change, and then reestablish that change before an understanding has been reached. I would recommend actually discussing the issues with this person on the talk page before doing anything else on the page itself or beyond it. As far as I can tell, while you and the other editor disagree, they have not assumed bad faith from you, and you should return the courtesy. Assuming another person feels like they have ownership of an article is often the quickest way to acting possessively yourself.<br style="margin-bottom:0.5em"/>The point of a talk page discussion is to have a discussion—there's usually no hard rules as to what order actions need to take place in, it shouldn't be taken as a slight that you're asked to discuss things on the talk page and haven't been explicitly preempted in doing so. People have different communication styles, and that's why assuming good faith is important. Remsense  留  13:17, 9 December 2023 (UTC)
 * It's not normally a rush. Usually I make an edit and he reverts within moments. I did revert it as his reason for wiping out hours of work without explaining why. In the same fashion, he could discuss on talk page before wiping out my changes. Is there a time limit I should wait before submitting a revision? Thank you! MelroseReporter (talk) 13:29, 9 December 2023 (UTC)
 * MelroseReporter, don't worry about time limits, worry about assuming good faith from your fellow editor, please. There is no reason for anyone to assume bad faith or not treat each other's concerns as reasonable so far. A part of the reason Wikipedia works is your work has not been wiped out—it is in the edit history of the article and can be found and reintegrated into the article in whatever form is deemed appropriate.<br style="margin-bottom:0.5em"/>As you know, a third editor has brought up some concerns with your additions, these shouldn't be disregarded just because they did not come from the original editor—since neither you nor the original editor own the article, it's just as necessary to engage with their concerns regardless of who did what in what order. Put another way—reverting again would seem to value a very narrow view of decorum over the variously stated concerns of two people, and I would consider that to be wholly inappropriate. Everyone just cares about the article's quality. Remsense  留  13:39, 9 December 2023 (UTC)


 * I note you have already been blocked once for abusive editing. And yet here you are on thin ice, engaging in a revert war on Shungite and largely ignoring the suggestions & requests that you discuss edits before making them. You want to wipe out the suggestion that Shungite is antibacterial because of its heavy metal content, because you misread or misapply a paper which talks about two diffeent sorts of Shungite, one of which lacks heavy metals. You want to insist that Shungite is made of fullerines, when the same paper you rely on talks of it having only traces of fullerines.
 * So here's what I'm going to do. I'm going to revert the article to the position before you started your revert war, before you started editing it. I'm going to INSIST that changes are discussed on the talk page before they are made. And if you persist in edit warring, I'm going to wheel you over to WP:ANI for them to deal with you. --Tagishsimon (talk) 13:53, 9 December 2023 (UTC)

delete all the
per "i added an image to this article and was then informed that that image might not have actually been the legal way to do it", can image deletion be handled here, as opposed to in commons?  cogsan (give me attention)  (see my deeds) 19:23, 7 December 2023 (UTC)


 * Hello Cogsan. Welcome to the Teahouse. You can undo the edit yourself by going to the article's 'view history' tab and clicking on the undo button in the latest entry. In the edit history, you can mention it as 'self-revert'. Hope this helps <3 Jeraxmoira (talk) 19:41, 7 December 2023 (UTC)
 * That is how you remove it from the article, but that doesn't delete the actual image file. If the file is at Commons, you will need to follow Commons procedure, yes. <b style="font-family:Monospace">-- Maddy from Celeste (WAVEDASH)</b> 19:58, 7 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Ah! I think I misunderstood your question earlier. To address it properly now, I've tagged the image for speedy deletion, following your request. Jeraxmoira (talk) 19:57, 7 December 2023 (UTC)
 * guess that works lol
 * thanks  cogsan (give me attention)  (see my deeds) 20:15, 7 December 2023 (UTC)
 * incidentally, wouldn't it have been a g11, as opposed to a g7?  cogsan (give me attention)  (see my deeds) 20:19, 7 December 2023 (UTC)
 * No. You requested the deletion. G11 is promotional; this image was not promotional. It could have been filed as a G12, unambiguous copyvio. --Tagishsimon (talk) 20:23, 7 December 2023 (UTC)

Notes in entry on Gilbert Stuart (artist)   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gilbert_Stuart
I've had a problem with the following note corrections (given in quotes). Would someone please help? I'd be very grateful.

Note 2, change Ireland to "London." At the end of the note, add this explanatory source for the name problem: "Evans, Dorinda, Gilbert Stuart and the Impact of Manic Depression, Ashgate Publishing Ltd., 2013, p. 127."

Note 35: "Quote from Jane Stuart in" Evans, 2013, p. 14.

Note 46: add missing pages at the end of the note: Evans 2013, pp. 18-19, "69-73, 82-84, 148."

Thanks so much for your attention. DEvans2 (talk) 20:09, 7 December 2023 (UTC)
 * I don't understand what you're asking, but for suggesting changes to an article, start a discussion on the talk page. RudolfRed (talk) 20:21, 7 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Or, better, be WP:BOLD and fix it. RudolfRed (talk) 20:22, 7 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks for replying. I've submiotted my request again and tried to make it clearer.  These are corrections to my own text. DEvans2 (talk) 21:36, 7 December 2023 (UTC)
 * I'm not seeking a discussion; I'm making corrections to what I wrote earlier in notes. This is self-correction. If you can't do it, please allow someone else to try.  What is not clear about it? DEvans2 (talk) 21:14, 7 December 2023 (UTC)
 * @DEvans2, what is not clear is that we don't understand what you're asking us to do.
 * The page is not protected, you can make any corrections yourself. Valereee (talk) 22:20, 7 December 2023 (UTC)
 * The Editing Source page is almost gibberish. For instance, I want to correct what I already wrote in note 2 but that text now is " ref name = gsm />.  It's meaningless without even a note number.  How can I improve on what I can't read?  I'm asking to make corrections in notes 2, 35, and 46.  Or please lead me to where it is not all in code.  When I worked on the entry before, the setup was different.  I'm a beginner and not sure what I've done wrong. DEvans2 (talk) 01:31, 8 December 2023 (UTC)


 * DEvans2, if for some reason you cannot make corrections yourself, please describe the hurdle that you face. RudolfRed, Valereee and I can each of us do what you ask us to, but I imagine that they are as reluctant as I am either (A) to work unthinkingly for another editor or (B) to spend time evaluating asked-for changes before carrying them out. -- Hoary (talk) 22:28, 7 December 2023 (UTC)
 * I did change notes 2 and 44 (previously note 46; not sure why instantly changed). Then I accidentally made a "cite error" in ending note 35.  It should read: 35. Quote from Jane Stuart in Evans 2013, p. 14.  This is under Personal Life, after the "exceedingly pretty" quote.  The Help page gives instances of the error.  How do I now re-do the note and remove the red citation?  Sorry to be such a bother. DEvans2 (talk) 02:39, 8 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Re the 46 to 44 change: as I think I've told you before, the references are numbered automatically (in the order they first appear in the text), so if someone (perhaps yourself, perhaps someone else) has deleted (or moved) a couple of different references from before what was 46, all those after the first deleted reference will drop their number by 1, and all those after the second deletion by a further 1. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 90.199.215.44 (talk) 15:03, 8 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Yes, this is obvious and I knew that. I didn't knowingly delete something.  The problem now is getting rid of the red citation.   DEvans2 (talk) 15:13, 8 December 2023 (UTC)
 * @DEvans2 I commented it out. If it is needed, then you can add it back where it's cited and remove the  Mike Turnbull (talk) 21:45, 8 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks so much, Mike. I really appreciate the help several of you have given.  It's difficult for a novice, and I probably won't tgry this again. DEvans2 (talk) 22:36, 8 December 2023 (UTC)
 * @DEvans2, I'd hate to see you decide not to contribute. I'm sorry I couldn't help more, I took a look a couple of times to see if I could figure out the problem, but unfortunately the citation style for the particular set of citations you were trying to work with is one I also find it very fiddly and difficult to work with, and therefore a bit daunting. Most articles I work with, I don't have that problem, so don't be reluctant to give it another try in future. Valereee (talk) 00:07, 9 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks so much for your kind reply.  DEvans2 (talk) 15:29, 9 December 2023 (UTC)

Category formatting?
Hi all, I recently created the article Heart Play: Unfinished Dialogue, and attempted to add categories, but the category formatting looks wrong. I've skimmed through WP:Categorization, but can't figure it out. Please help! Thanks! Of the universe (talk) 15:33, 9 December 2023 (UTC)


 * Of the universe, including the colon before the 'Category:' prefix means it is just a link to the category. I have fixed it by removing that colon,  ->  . You can do the same with templates, interlanguage links, etc. Sungodtemple (talk &#8226; contribs) 15:41, 9 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks! Of the universe (talk) 15:44, 9 December 2023 (UTC)

Can we get a disambiguation page for One Water?
HI One Water (Management) is a notable management approach, endorsed by the United Nations, World Health Organization, U.S. Water Alliance, and more. I have created a page for this, but would like to disambiguate it from One Water, the film. How do we support this? I do see the guidance at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Disambiguation but I am not sure if I am allowed to create that disambiguation page? Thank you.LoveElectronicLiterature (talk) 00:33, 9 December 2023 (UTC)


 * Yes.
 * One Water - DAB
 * One Water (water management)
 * One Water (documentary)
 * --Tagishsimon (talk) 00:43, 9 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you so much! What do I need to do now? Should I be creating a page? Is it right to ask here for that disambiguation page? The guidance isn't quite clear. LoveElectronicLiterature (talk) 16:02, 9 December 2023 (UTC)
 * It has already been created: One Water. --Tagishsimon (talk) 16:16, 9 December 2023 (UTC)

Sri Rama Michael Tamm
This is a recently accepted article. I've merged the duplicate refs and it is a bit scant on them. If someone would take a look, that'd be great. My bigger concern is the unpublished manuscript used. This isn't valid for use, correct? - UtherSRG (talk) 15:22, 9 December 2023 (UTC)


 * Ref has now been removed as not legitimate. - UtherSRG (talk) 16:29, 9 December 2023 (UTC)

Welcome from WillKomen

 * User:WillKomen.Thanks for th very friandly welcome! excited to start using Wikpedia — Preceding unsigned comment added by MouseArtichoke! (talk • contribs) 17:19, 9 December 2023 (UTC)

Welcome, I believe the welcome you received is automatically generated as part of The Wikipedia Adventure. If you have questions on editing Wikipedia articles, please feel free to drop by again. Rotideypoc41352 (talk · contribs) 21:16, 9 December 2023 (UTC)

Hello
I've done edits on my great grandfather wiki page but it says that it's still pending, it's already been more than a week and it has not been approved yet, how long does it take usually and is there a way to make the process faster KarimQ (talk) 01:05, 10 December 2023 (UTC)


 * what is the name of the page? Rotideypoc41352 (talk · contribs) 01:20, 10 December 2023 (UTC)
 * https://ar.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D9%85%D8%AD%D9%85%D8%AF_%D8%B3%D9%84%D9%8A%D9%85_%D8%B3%D8%B9%D8%AF_%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%AF%D9%8A%D9%86_%D9%83%D8%B1%D9%8A%D8%AF%D9%8A%D9%87 KarimQ (talk) 01:22, 10 December 2023 (UTC)
 * , the Teahouse provides assistance about editing the English Wikipedia. You will have to ask at the Arabic Wikipedia for assistance with this matter. Each Wikipedia language version is an entirely separate project. Cullen328 (talk) 01:27, 10 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Hello! The edits you made were on Arabic Wikipedia, which is a separate entity from English Wikipedia. Most volunteers don't work in both, and you'll have more chances to have answers on the Arabic Wikipedia's equivalent of the Teahouse, although you might get a knowledgeable volunteer here to answer you! Chaotıċ Enby   (t · c) 01:29, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

Verifiable links
I do not understand what type of links are unverifiable in my draft Draft:Smita N. Kinkale. Anonymousartuser (talk) 11:49, 8 December 2023 (UTC)
 * The sources you have provided are largely either user-generated, (Linkedin, which is not acceptable as a source whatsoever) very close to the subject (the galleries their work has been displayed in), or not directly about the subject (a short news blurb about 12 people including the subject). Otherwise, statements made in the article do not seem to be informed by the reliable sources you have provided. See below. Remsense  留  11:57, 8 December 2023 (UTC)
 * @Anonymousartuser The whole "About works" portion of the biography has no sources at all. Who interpreted her art that way? You? Please read Wikipedia's policy about biographies of living people carefully. All significant statements have to be backed up by reliable published sources. You have re-submitted the draft without addressing the issues identified in its previous review. Therefore it is likely to be rapidly declined again. Mike Turnbull (talk) 12:07, 8 December 2023 (UTC)
 * .... as it has been. Mike Turnbull (talk) 12:11, 8 December 2023 (UTC)
 * @Anonymousartuser Judging by your User rename request you are attempting to write an autobiography. That is strongly discouraged for the reasons given at that link. Mike Turnbull (talk) 12:20, 8 December 2023 (UTC)
 * @Anonymousartuser You need to cut the "Critic reviews" texts drastically, see MOS:QUOTE. Note that a WP-article about Smita N. Kinkale is supposed to be a summary of WP:RS about but independent of Smita N. Kinkale. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 13:45, 8 December 2023 (UTC)
 * just looked at the draft, and yikes. Firstly, as Michael D. Turnbull pointed out, you had a rename request which makes it look like you are writing an autobiography, which isn't really good. Second, you have a lot of external links on there, like on to the schools website, that should either be added in as sources, or removed entirely. Last, there a flimsy unreliable and unrelated sources in the article. Babysharkboss2 was here!!  ( Talk to me ) ( Waif Me! ) 14:54, 8 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Basically, Wikipedia is not interested in what the subject of an article says or wants to say about themselves, or what their associates say about them. Wikipedia is only interested in what people who have no connection with the subject, and who have not been prompted or fed information on behalf of the subject, have chosen to publish about the subject in reliable sources. ColinFine (talk) 01:31, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

Adding reliable citations for Radha
Hello, I've been trying to add a new author and book page which has been quite challenging. Based on the limited information available, what do you guys suggest I change so that the pages are reviewed again and accepted? The feedback I received for the book page (Draft:Radha: Wrath of the Maeju) suggests that I add more published sources that are reliable, secondary, in-depth, and independent. But at this stage, is waiting all that I need to do so that the book has more reviews? There aren't many English-language Nepali books in the market or reviewers in English who will make the citation abundant. Please help. Phsssttt (talk) 18:00, 8 December 2023 (UTC)


 * @KylieTastic Phsssttt (talk) 18:01, 8 December 2023 (UTC)
 * @Phsssttt note that sources do not have to be in English if some exist is Nepali? See Notability (books) for what we look for to show nobility of books. As the book is not even published till tomorrow this may be a case of WP:TOOSOON. Regards KylieTastic (talk) 18:15, 8 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Hello Phsssttt, and welcome to the Teahouse.
 * I wonder, what is your purpose in "adding an author and book page" for a book which is about to be published?
 * If your answer is in any way about telling the world about this book, then what you are trying to do is promotion, which is forbidden anywhere in Wikipedia.
 * Once independent, reliable sources have taken note of the book by publishing significant material about it, then it may be possible to write a Wikipedia article summarising what these independent sources say. Until then, writing an acceptable article is impossible, and attempting to do so is probably contrary to the purposes of Wikipedia ColinFine (talk) 01:41, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

Help!!
Hi, I'm a long term Wikipedia style and clarity editor, but I don't know the ropes of higher level editing. I need a mentor, that I can message from time to time. My latest problem, is somebody from the nuclear power industry is reverting my edits to an article on a scientist, to whitewash her scientific contribution to epidemiological studies documenting harm from radiation releases from Chernobyl etc.

I just don't know how to deal with edit warring. They threatened to have me banned as an editor. I don't know how to deal with that. They are obviously someone employed by the nuclear industry, who has sanitised the article I happened to come across and work on.

I intend to work on the clearcutting article, which I have deep expertise in. I'm anticipating the same kind of flack from the logging industry, so if I could find a mentor on this article, it might come in handy for later.

Usually I just do minor clarity edits, on random articles. Every once in a while though, I want to be able to get involved on important topics. So, please, help me! I don't know how to contact other editors. Maybe leave a message on my talk page? Thanks Billyshiverstick (talk) 01:19, 9 December 2023 (UTC)
 * For starters, don't accuse an administrator of being a "stooge" when they remove material you copied from Amazon RudolfRed (talk) 01:24, 9 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Read WP:NPA. RudolfRed (talk) 01:26, 9 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Please also read WP:MINOR. A minor edit is something like fixing a typo.  RudolfRed (talk) 01:29, 9 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Billyshiverstick you seem to have mistaken a routine reversion for copyvio, for some sort of nuclear industry conspiracy. It's not a conspiracy. It's a routine reversion because you introduced copyrighted text into the article. The solution is, not to add copyrighted text into articles. The honourable thing to do would be to apologise to the editor involved. --Tagishsimon (talk) 01:32, 9 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Hello, Billyshiverstick, and welcome to the Teahouse.
 * It sounds as if you have got caught up in a pattern which quite often besets new editors, especially if they are passionate about some cause (which it sounds as if you may be). They see something which they are sure is wrong (or missing, or …), and they go in and change it.
 * Which is fine as long as they understand and follow Wikipedia's core policies. But new editors often do not understand these policies, and make mistakes: most often in copyright,  verifiability, or  neutral point of view, and their edits are then quite appropriately reverted (see WP:BRD).
 * But when the subject is something that they care deeply about, and believe that they are correcting an important error or falsehood, they sometimes leap to the conclusion that the reversion was in bad faith, by somebody determined to hide The Truth.
 * This can happen, of course. But it is overwhelmingly more likely that what's going on is somebody enforcing Wikipedia's rules.
 * Note that Wikipedia isn't for righting great wrongs: its job is to summarise what the reliable sources say. If the sources differ, and there is no consensus, the article should say that, giving weight to each view according to its degree of support across the sources. If a view is in nearly all the sources, and an opposing view in only one source, of dubious reliability, that opposing view should get little or no mention. (I'm not saying that that description applies to the present case: I haven't looked into it at all. I'm giving an example of how it works) ColinFine (talk) 02:09, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

My Awards page wikipedia entry keeps on getting declined, HELP!!
My name is Inyi, and I'm new to creating entries on Wikipedia.

I'm currently working on an article page for an awards-giving body in the Philippines called the "VP Choice Awards." However, the entry keeps getting declined by reviewers with the comment: "This submission appears to read more like an advertisement."

I've been following the guidance provided by one of the reviewers (Qcne) to address this issue, yet the entry continues to be declined by other reviewers. I've added references in line with the article, rewritten the content in a neutral manner, and included references from independent media sources not affiliated or related to the VP Choice Awards, but it still gets declined.

I would greatly appreciate it if you could review my entry here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:VP_Choice_Awards and provide guidance on what needs to be fixed on the page.

Thank you so much in advance Inyiyruma (talk) 04:15, 9 December 2023 (UTC)


 * Welcome! Thanks for taking the time to create new articles, and it's great that you took care to cite independent sources. There's still some wording that sounds more like what you'd find on a company website, like listing the various categories. Referring to the event as an "award ceremony" rather than an "award-giving body" might help put the event itself more in focus than the body in charge, and distance it from the "advertisement" look.
 * Also, YouTube videos are generally not recommended to use as sources, and having less material sourced from Village Pipol itself could help too. No need to "over-do it" and have every single award winner, which can be a bit overwhelming - are there key awards that the reader might be interested in, or would there be a way to summarize these tables? Good luck editing, Chaotıċ Enby   (t · c) 01:42, 10 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Hello Inyiyruma, and welcome to the Teahouse.
 * The question you need to ask yourself (in fact, the question you needed to ask yourself before you started this draft) is: Where have some people with no connection to the awards or their parent company, chosen to write at some length about the thing called "The VP Choice Awards" (I'm not sure if that is an event or an organisation)? Not about the nth VPC Awards; still less about who happened to win the nth VPC Awards: that is trivial information that might go in a data table once there is an encyclopedia article to add it to, but is not a core part of the article.
 * Without in-depth independent writing about the awards as an entity, your draft will not establish notability, and the article cannot be accepted. ColinFine (talk) 02:29, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

Microsoft version of Unix GREP ("Global Regular Expression Processer")
GREP searches inside files for lines containing a particular search string in DOC, XLS and Outlook files.

GREP would be useful when you have a lot of files, but do not remember the filename. ___MountVic127 (talk) 23:05, 9 December 2023 (UTC)


 * @MountVic127: Welcome to the Teahouse! This is a place for help with using and editing Wikipedia, not for all questions.  I've found that using the search functionality in Windows' File Explorer will search inside files.  Happy editing!  GoingBatty (talk) 23:53, 9 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Incidentally, "grep" does not stand for "Global Regular Expression Processer" (or even "Processor"). See our article for the actual derivation. CodeTalker (talk) 02:04, 10 December 2023 (UTC)
 * @GoingBatty I found File Explorer, thanks, but how does one actually use it?
 * I wish to find the string "Nepal" in *.docx files. This is easy in a command line program like Unix while windows had mountains of buttons and boxes to choose between. File Explorer should have a command line box that converts Grep-like commands into Windows speak. MountVic127 (talk) 03:12, 10 December 2023 (UTC)
 * @MountVic127: How you use the search feature in File Explorer depends on what version of Windows you're running. You could use a quick Google search to find many web pages on this topic.  You could send your suggestions on how to improve File Explorer to Microsoft. GoingBatty (talk) 04:16, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

Correct position of new entry to a list of numbers
I'm updating some information on the list of tallest of people. When multiple people share the exact same height, what order should they be in/which position should my new entry take? Blackdogcity (talk) 04:17, 10 December 2023 (UTC)


 * Hello, that will be determined at the article level. Are there any ties currently on the page? And have you tried the article's talk page? Rjjiii (ii) (talk) 04:23, 10 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the reply! There are multiple ties on the list and I haven't tried the talk page yet (I incorrectly assumed there was a globally consistent style guide answer to this question). I can't find anything in the articles talk archives asking about ordering so I suppose I'll ask there.
 * Is it better to wait for a response before moving the entry at all or to move it now to show the correct data and modify the ties into the specific order if/when I get an answer? Blackdogcity (talk) 04:39, 10 December 2023 (UTC)
 * In my opinion, the important thing is to get the correct information cited to a reliable source. The Verifiability policy outweighs style guides. It will be fairly easy to cut & paste the table's rows where they need to go. Rjjiii (ii) (talk) 05:17, 10 December 2023 (UTC)
 * @Blackdogcity: Hi there! Now that you've asked at Talk:List of tallest people, I suggest waiting a few days before boldly changing the order.  However, you could add your suggestion for ordering ties on the talk page.  Happy editing!  GoingBatty (talk) 05:18, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

Question
Is there a way to see every search term that redirects to a certain article? Bzik2324 (talk) 05:43, 10 December 2023 (UTC)
 * There's a 'What links here' link on each article; not sure where it's hidden in the new user interface; under Tools, maybe. For an article such as Hamer Stansfeld it takes you to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:WhatLinksHere?target=Hamer+Stansfeld&namespace= ... if you tick both the 'hide transclusions' and 'hide links' tickboxes, and hit 'go' you'll be left with the redirects to the page - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:WhatLinksHere?target=Hamer+Stansfeld&namespace=&hidetrans=1&hidelinks=1 --Tagishsimon (talk) 06:09, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

base href, to reduce page size
Hi. Does wikipedia offer a way to do <base href="..."> ? I'm trying to reduce the wikipedia page size on a page with many outside links. Thanks! Kweetal nl (talk) 10:00, 8 December 2023 (UTC)


 * Hi @Kweetal nl: this isn't an answer to your question as such, but may be relevant nevertheless: other than citations, and a few select links in the end matter, Wikipedia articles shouldn't really have external links. Okay, it's not quite as drastic as that, but that's pretty much the gist of WP:EL. -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 10:18, 8 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Heh. They /are/ citations (i.e., links to BHL pages). (BHL = biodiversity heritage library).
 * (but perhaps people will not find it interesting) - Kweetal nl (talk) 10:49, 8 December 2023 (UTC)
 * If (?) you mean User:Kweetal nl/sandbox49, then no, they're not citations; they're inline external links. -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 11:11, 8 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Ok - I'll remove it (largely). - Kweetal nl (talk) 11:31, 8 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you for providing that context. This might be an XY problem. Using the BHL author or BHL page templates might be useful. DMacks (talk) 09:51, 10 December 2023 (UTC)
 * The entirity of supported html tags is listed at Help:HTML in wikitext § Elements, is not amongst them. Victor Schmidt (talk) 17:42, 8 December 2023 (UTC)

Introduction and progress
I'd like to use the space here to thanks for the input by users to the contributions I started. I'm working on tasks simultaneously but mainly tips for speed the interface can be cumbersome even to cp. Finally, welcome to new antecedents from me. I'm eager for it to show in a feed talk subst:welccome... Nesshunter (talk) 00:00, 10 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Nesshunter, welcome! It is not clear what you are trying to ask here, could you rephrase your question? Remsense  留  06:33, 10 December 2023 (UTC)
 * How can productivity be improved? Nesshunter (talk) 10:58, 10 December 2023 (UTC)
 * I think I understand! You may want to consider looking at the WP:keyboard shortcuts that can be used in the editor, as well as the various gadgets and tools that can automate repetitive tasks. If you're solely talking about the performance of the visual editor, I would recommend trying out the older 2010 editor instead, which can be switched to on your preferences page. If you need more help, let me know! Remsense  留  11:01, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

Article creation of my company
Hello @Teahouse, I have a question regarding creating an article. I recently drafted an article for my company, but it got deleted within 24 hours. I really need the article for my company. How can I go about recovering or preserving it? RonakJK (talk) 11:40, 10 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Hello. I see you declared a COI, as you work for the company, the Terms of Use require you to make the stricter paid editing disclosure.
 * Your draft was highly promotional and will not be restored. Wikipedia is not a place for companies to tell the world about themselves. Wikipedia articles are typically written by independent editors wholly unconnected with the topic, and summarize what independent reliable sources with significant coverage choose to say about (in this case) a company, showing how it meets the special Wikipedia definition of a notable company. Not every company merits an article.
 * You should have submitted a draft via the Article Wizard, not gamed the system to create it yourself, the system exists for a reason.
 * Please read WP:BOSS and have your superiors read it too. 331dot (talk) 11:48, 10 December 2023 (UTC)
 * not to mention that every system-gaming newcomer task to "improve grammar" made the respective article somewhat to considerably worse. i've had to revert them all. Remsense 留  12:16, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

Reporting an issue on WP:ANI
I just opened on a new topic on WP:ANI regarding that editor who restored his additions of Tamil scripts into several Malaysa-related articles. Not only there is no consensus on such edits, but Tamil has no official or legal status in Malaysia and adding that language into articles about local governments and infrastructure is just dubious at best.

Is there anything else I could do within my rights about that editor? hundenvonPG (talk) 12:53, 10 December 2023 (UTC)
 * HundenvonPenang, if you've reported it to ANI, that is sufficient. The issue seems clear-cut enough, and generally you shouldn't have to do anything that resembles forum shopping to get your issue addressed. cheers! Remsense  留  12:55, 10 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Noted with thanks hundenvonPG (talk) 12:57, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

misfit display in Android
Viewing for the first time the page Tea House, I am astonished that the first section title

(== What to do when multiple reliable sources publish misleading information? ...)

is displayed in about 2 dozens of lines, each only about 2 letter short. Like:

W

ha

tt

od

ow

...

Above: archive numbers list ends with "... 1207, 1208"

Underneath: following section title lines fit the display width

I use a Samsung Galaxy A40 Smartphone (from ca. 2019) with updated Android. 5.9" display (upright = portrait mode).

Browser Chrome, updated.

Helium4 (talk) 10:27, 10 December 2023 (UTC)


 * User:Helium4, yep, the mobile skin will compress section headers, deeply indented comments, and table columns down to complete illegibility before it will increase the width of the view window and force us to do a sidey swipe. It sure would be nice if elements could be balanced better to avoid that, rather than archive boxes having a fixed width and demanding to share horizontal space rather than squishing themselves a lil bit or just clearing the space to their left. I believe this is also one reason that side bars and navboxes don't display on mobile.You might be able to leave feedback for the team who is able to make changes to the mobile web interface at mw:Talk:Reading/Web? I just kinda shrug like "welp never reading that I guess". Folly Mox (talk) 14:06, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

Contributions not publishing
I have uploaded 20 books with details but I did not access publicly. Can you please help me to show my contributions for publicly. خالد محمود خان (talk) 10:34, 10 December 2023 (UTC)


 * While I am not certain what you mean, you may be looking for your contributions at Wikimedia Commons, which include your image uploads. Tollens (talk) 10:38, 10 December 2023 (UTC)
 * At Commons, all 20 images (of book covers?) have been nominated for deletion. David notMD (talk) 14:43, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

Bob Fowke application for new article
I am working on an article for entry on Wikipedia on Bob Fowke who is a living person. In the 1970s/early 80s he was a successful, and well known in the science fantasy world, science fantasy artist. He is listed in the ISFDB, but not in Wikipedia itself. He worked in mainly oils and gouace, producing his illustrations as paintings, not electronically, and essentially stopped producing his work when computer-assisted or generated illustration came in. This means that the internet only features limited references to his work. However, he remains known, arguably well-known in the science fantasy world, who do refer to him online. He subsequently became a writer, primarily of children's information books, which I have listed There are two aspects to my problem with getting an entry accepted, and although the first appears to be the major one, I think it might be solved if I can sort the second.

1) Notability - I accept this was fair criticism on my first draft, I had not put in enough detail.  I have now added more information. 2)  Finding referencing sources online, and not using blogs. I accept that taken overall blogs are not indicative of facts, but it does appear there is not an overall ban on referring to them, I want to be able to use them illustratively, of continuing recognition and referral to Fowke in the SF world.

My draft is here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:PinneyFowke/sandbox

I really would welcome any help and assistance, as I don't seem to be making any real progress.

Thanks

Pinney PinneyFowke (talk) 14:33, 10 December 2023 (UTC)


 * PinneyFowke your main goal is to prove that Fowke is notable; essentially, there needs to be 2-3 sources that are independent, reliable, and in-depth about him. Blogs are not reliable and do not count; in fact, they are usually unreliable and should not be cited at all. What are the three sources that best follow the above criteria? Sungodtemple (talk &#8226; contribs) 15:06, 10 December 2023 (UTC)
 * @PinneyFowke: you have also asked this at the AfC HD. Please don't ask in several places, as answering the same query multiple times wastes volunteer effort. Thanks, -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 15:15, 10 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Really sorry, didn't mean to cause problems, it's because I'm a 'learner', the page I was viewing had suggestions about where to go for assistance with links, so I was trying them out in order to find out which were the right, and helpful ones to go to. PinneyFowke (talk) 15:36, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

Helping new Wikipedia volunteers
Hi,

We are a group of 7 people, and have a project to create and edit content on Wikipedia.

We know nothing about editing in Wikipedia or very very little (that's me).

Reading help pages is useful but not everyone's cup of tea, so I'm looking for other methods.

Are there any online sessions for beginners or Wikipedia for Dummies? We'll watch relevant youtube videos, but my thinking was like a cohort working live with a mentor or something like that.

Thank you Samisawtak (talk) 09:27, 9 December 2023 (UTC)


 * Hi @Samisawtak, and welcome! :)
 * A lot of the 'getting started' type help content is gathered together at this page, by miraculous coincidence (!) titled "Getting started". There you'll find plenty of links to tutorials, guided learning journeys, and further help. There are probably other ways of getting started also, but that would be my go-to resource.
 * As you mention that there are several of you involved in this, please note that Wikipedia user accounts are for use by a single individual only, so you should all set up your own user accounts if you haven't already done so.
 * Happy editing! -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 10:05, 9 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Many thanks, lots of helpful links Samisawtak (talk) 16:09, 10 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Also, Introduction, and also the links in the "Welcome" message I just left you on your Talk page. If you leave a message here with the userids of the other six members, I will leave them welcome messages, too (unless someone beats me to it!).Mathglot (talk) 10:10, 9 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Many thanks Samisawtak (talk) 16:08, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

Request feedback about draft article improvement
Hello all, I have been working on and off to create my first article Draft:Bhargav Sri Prakash. It started as a class project for school but it has turned in to quite a research project and I am learning a lot! Thank you to the experienced editors for reviewing my submission. I value your suggestions and to those who have contributed with edits. I have been researching more online and found a lot more news articles. However I am not sure I am on the right track with formatting and content. Basically I am looking at other articles and trying to learn by adapting the style. Can you please take a look and give me your advice? Thanking you, KrisJohanssen (talk) 08:21, 8 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Hi @KrisJohanssen, the draft mainly cites primary sources and only a few secondary sources making the subject less notable. I feel like some parts of it are written like a resume. Leoneix (talk) 09:50, 8 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you so much for your kind and insightful feedback @Leoneix. I will work to make it less resume like. Can you please help me by removing any unfit primary sources? That way it the article can be edited based on the few secondary sources alone. As I am new to article creation I am not very sure about how to determine the difference. From my limited understanding when an article is written by an independent journalist or reporter and it has been published by a reputable newspaper/magazine/journal then it can qualify as an acceptable secondary source. Can you please clarify this for me? As I have tried to leave out any thing which appears as quotes in the articles where Mr Sri-Prakash was interviewed. This draft is mainly based on what the journalist has written in their own words. Thank you KrisJohanssen (talk) 15:39, 10 December 2023 (UTC)
 * The subject comes across as a self-promoting bullshitter. His main claims to fame are that he was a national tennis champion (he wasn't), and that he's invemted a "digital vaccine" (it's not a vaccine)., I suggest that you find a more deserving subject for your efforts. Maproom (talk) 13:45, 8 December 2023 (UTC)
 * it doesn't matter what the persons done, if they're notable, then they could have a page about them. if we only made pages about good people, we wouldn't have pages like Hitler, Andrew Tate, Osama Bin Laden, etc. also, I suggest that you find a more deserving subject for your efforts. I wouldn't tell people on what they should and shouldn't edit. Babysharkboss2 was here!!  ( Talk to me! ) ( Goo Goo dolls ) 19:56, 8 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Sure, but the salient points for the editor of this article is that they should be *very* critical of the sources they use, and they should seek not to over-promote the subject. The article right now is larded with superlatives, peacock terms, notability by association, overcitation &c. The first four paragraphs of the article say, in essence, the same thing: he's invented some sort of gamified health education platform. It does not require four paragraphs of hyperbole to say this. The style of the article and the denseness of the citations set off all manner of bullshit klaxons for uninvolved experienced editors: it's highly unlikely the article will be promoted unless the editor takes several steps back and thins out both the claims and the citations. --Tagishsimon (talk) 20:11, 8 December 2023 (UTC)
 * I agree Lead far too long, hence repitition with content in body of draft, and I moved tennis to Personal life, as contributes nothing toward establishing notability. Creating editor shold be asked if COI or PAID applies, and work on neutral point of view before resubmitting. David notMD (talk) 20:16, 8 December 2023 (UTC)
 * started as a class project for school—has the instructor worked with Education program to ensure that the assignment is actually achievable and will minimize disruption to Wikipedia? Rotideypoc41352 (talk · contribs) 23:42, 8 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you @Rotideypoc41352 I am not sure if my instructor has worked with the education program. I can ask her and get back to you. The assignment was to learn about editing wikipedia and trying the editing tools. The assignment coincided with the time I saw the financial times transformation business ceremony where Bhargav Sri Prakash received the award and gave his acceptance speech. The class and assignment were done in the beginning fall term of 2022. KrisJohanssen (talk) 16:58, 10 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you @Tagishsimon I will be much more critical of the sources and ensure I remove any hyperbole. You mentioned over citation and peacock terms. Can you please remove those to help me learn the exact tone which is unacceptable on Wikipedia. KrisJohanssen (talk) 17:01, 10 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you! I don't feel that Sri Prakash is anywhere in the same league as Hitler or Bin Laden though KrisJohanssen (talk) 17:03, 10 December 2023 (UTC)
 * I appreciate your feedback here @Maproom. I see your point opposing the sentence that he was a national tennis champion. I made the mistake of omitting "junior" in the description of his tennis. Thank you to @David notMD who has accurately edited the article and created a personal life section.
 * As I replied to your insightful comment on the talk page of the article draft, please see this article in the Hindu Business Line. I understand Hindu Business Line is the business newspaper published by The Hindu. I checked to see the reliability of all these newspapers as I am not familiar with the papers in India. It seems to be regarded as a newspaper of record by Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Perennial_sources
 * https://www.thehindubusinessline.com/business-tech/how-ai-aided-digital-vaccines-can-be-a-game-changer/article65389614.ece
 * The article says
 * "He played professional tennis in his younger days and represented India in international junior tennis events".
 * "Prakash’s invention is the first vaccine."
 * Additionally I found peer reviewed acceptance of his work with digital vaccine at what appears to be a reputable medical conference at Stanford School of Medicine in 2018. Kindly see this link to a medical conference presentation at Stanford MedicineX ED 2018 that I came across
 * https://medicinex.stanford.edu/ed-2018-presentations/#1466453233937-fd1ec662-5558
 * You will find his abstract among other peer reviewed abstracts accepted for presentation. It is under the PCOR CER tab co authored by Rema Padman and Yi-Chin Lin is titled "An approach to scaling evidence backed Digital Vaccines based on Neuropsychology to impact Global Health"
 * I am no expert to judge the scientific merit but I am just trying to go by what I found online through my research. First time I read about digital vaccines was on the FTIFC Awards page and I watched his speech on the livestream of Financial Times and International Finance Corporation Transformational Business Awards (recording 42 min 15 sec)
 * https://transformationalbusiness.live.ft.com/page/2146059/register-for-on-demand
 * I am inspired by what he said and what I discovered about him and his work in health. I am becoming interested in AI. This I why I chose to work on an article about him because I thought there should be an article after the FTIFC award. I definitely do not see him as a bull shitter and firmly disagree with your dismissive comments about better use of my time. Thank you @Babysharkbos2 I am young and inexperienced as a wikipedia editor but I want to put my effort in to things I believe improve life for the future. This experience actually fuels me to dig deeper to find a rightful place for those who are dedicated to social causes
 * I agree I am not qualified to edit properly but I seek your help and advice to improve my editing authoring skills and for ways to become a long term contributor. Thank you KrisJohanssen (talk) 16:52, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

Writing Support to Publish a Company Page.
Hello, I am a new editor trying to gain some insight and support on how I can improve my article to be an acceptable standard for Wikipedia. Is there anyone that is willing to help me improve this article so that I can get it approved by the Wiki-Admins. I am new to this and I need help. Please Steph at Unipet (talk) 15:03, 10 December 2023 (UTC)


 * To be blunt, I recommend that you give up. Nothing has shown that Unipet is notable. Your volunteer time is better spent elsewhere, such as copyediting, and your work time is better spent doing whatever your job is. Sungodtemple (talk &#8226; contribs) 15:09, 10 December 2023 (UTC)
 * @Steph at Unipet There are many millions of companies, so Wikipedia has to limit those it covers to the ones that are wikinotable (see link for details). This means we need coverage in sources that meet these criteria. I don't see such sources in your draft and I'm afraid your company just looks WP:RUNOFTHEMILL. Incidentally, it is not administrators who review articles but editors who are experienced in doing so: the decline notice gives their reasons. You may like to read this essay and this one. Mike Turnbull (talk) 15:13, 10 December 2023 (UTC)
 * None of the refs support the notability of the company. At best, it is WP:TOOSOON for this modest-sized company. I recommend either adandoning the draft, in which case it will be deleted in six months, or tagging it for deletion now. David notMD (talk) 16:23, 10 December 2023 (UTC)
 * @Steph at Unipet: See also the essay at WP:BOSS. GoingBatty (talk) 17:10, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

Generating a list based on a data-field in the info box of certain pages
I want to be able to view a list page of video games using the Unreal Engine 5 game engine. This data, when available, is listed in the video game Infobox template under "engine". (Example: Tekken 8.) I'm not sure how to go about this or if it is allowed. It seems like the wikimedia api can be used to create the list. But I'm not sure if this is the standard way to do it. It would be a page called "List of video games using the unreal engine 5 game engine" 24.38.201.80 (talk) 18:51, 10 December 2023 (UTC)


 * You could get this sort of list based on wikidata, rather than WP infoboxes - https://w.wiki/8Szr - should that help. WD may not have the same coverage as WP. --Tagishsimon (talk) 19:04, 10 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Are you aware of any efforts to combine wikidata and and wikipedia infobox data? And the question of creating a static list like eg. Category:PlayStation 5 games? Is there another page better suited for this discussion like eg. Help_desk? Wikidata indeed does seem not to have the same coverage. At least, 81 entries seems too few to me. 24.38.201.80 (talk) 19:13, 10 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Many infoboxes have the capability to import data from wikidata; see, for instance, Category:Infobox templates using Wikidata. But the WP community, in its Luddite wisdom, has afaik rejected the idea of allowing dynamic tables based on wikidata in WP articlespace. Meanwhile whether WP or WD has better coverage of the use of UE5 in games remains to be determined. --Tagishsimon (talk) 19:25, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

Dates for single releases
Hi, if I’m adding a singles list to an album’s infobox, and there is a single which was released in multiple countries on different dates, which date should I list? The earliest release date, the release date in the artist’s native country, or something else? In some cases there’s so many different release dates that to list them all would be impractical.

The example that pushed me to ask this in particular is Joni Mitchell's "Coyote". In the UK it was released in March of 1977, in Canada (her home country) it was released in June of that year, and in the US it was released earliest, in January. So which date should be used? Thanks! Elephantranges (talk) 19:44, 10 December 2023 (UTC)


 * The infobox seems to be wanting just the earliest release date. " Generally, later releases or in secondary markets, reissues, on compilations, etc., should only be included in the body of the article." at Template:Infobox song. --Tagishsimon (talk) 19:50, 10 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks! Elephantranges (talk) 20:30, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

I'm sorry
I didn't mean to vandalize Wikipedia again. I was actually editing for good usage. Before coming on here, someone left me 7 talk page messages, which I didn't read, inviting me to this teahouse, very helpful I know. I accidentally edited Wikipedia before I read that message and I'm sorry and apologize deeply. I mean it. Jamiemuscatoverified (talk) 06:49, 9 December 2023 (UTC)


 * Thanks a lot for coming here! No one knows how all of Wikipedia works in a single day, and it is always good to see new editors join in good faith and wanting to help! If you have any questions, feel free to ask them here! Chaotıċ Enby   (t · c) 01:31, 10 December 2023 (UTC)
 * It can be frightening to have that many messages on your talk page in a single day - being flooded by alerts and not really understanding what you've did wrong. No worries, it's best to take your time, and you can ask volunteers like me if you want to edit anything, to be sure to not do anything wrong. You can find me here or on my talk page! Chaotıċ Enby   (t · c) 01:34, 10 December 2023 (UTC)
 * N.B. Querent has been indef'd. Rotideypoc41352 (talk · contribs) 21:27, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

Incorrect category
Hi, I noticed that Paradecolya inexspectata was in Category:Endemic flora of Réunion, but it's actually an insect. I decided to be bold and remove it, but I was wondering if I should have added it to some other category. 65.128.48.151 (talk) 00:17, 11 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Good catch, 48.151, thank you. You're under no obligation to add it to another category, but Category:Endemic fauna of Réunion was probably where it was meant to be; I've added that. --Tagishsimon (talk) 00:39, 11 December 2023 (UTC)

image for a BLP
I have asked this before, but i do not remember the exact requirements for finding a fair use and uploading a non-free content image for a BLP. I know the rules for book covers and film posters, but BLP's are a tad extra sensitive and I'd like some help please. I am looking in this case specifically for Dan Senor, but don't do it for me. teach me to fish, and i will be less likely to come back again to this teahouse for this. Iljhgtn (talk) 23:40, 10 December 2023 (UTC)


 * clear bullet point steps would be most helpful. Iljhgtn (talk) 23:41, 10 December 2023 (UTC)


 * The policy is at WP:NFCCP. For a BLP, you immediately fail 1. No free equivalent. Non-free content is used only where no free equivalent is available, or could be created, that would serve the same encyclopedic purpose. and so there's no possibility of a fair use image ... the possibility must exist that a living person could be photographed. --Tagishsimon (talk) 23:43, 10 December 2023 (UTC)
 * right, but i just forget how we search for those images when it comes to a BLP. I get where to go for a brand, company, logo, book, film, etc. but not for a BLP. Like sure i can google stuff, but i want to know the best way to go about this. in a bullet list ideally for me to save in my "tool box" of my user page. Iljhgtn (talk) 23:45, 10 December 2023 (UTC)
 * So the point is, you do not get to search for a fair use image, b/c a fair use image cannot be used. You can search for a public domain or CC0 image; with google that seems to be, in image search, the 'usage rights' dropdown and 'Creative Commons licenses' selected; or else looking carefully at all result for instances where you can determine manually that the image is public domain. --Tagishsimon (talk) 23:54, 10 December 2023 (UTC)
 * i keep screwing up the wording i use, thank you for correcting me. So same question, but replace it with "public domain or CC0" image. Iljhgtn (talk) 23:57, 10 December 2023 (UTC)
 * i have a dell computer and use microsoft for search if that helps you to help me, or anytone else on here. Iljhgtn (talk) 23:57, 10 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Presuming you're using Bing, its image search seems to have a filter option on its results, beneath which is a licence option, within which the option "free to share and use commercially" is probably the best bet. Even then, you would still have to ascertain exactly what the licence on the image was, and choose the appropriate licence tag when uploading it to, presumably, commons. I can't pretend it is easy because there are very many licence variants. The Commons Licencing page has a useful table of the most common licences, which might help. --Tagishsimon (talk) 00:10, 11 December 2023 (UTC)
 * i just tried this, that seemed to be helpful. here is an image of Dan Senor found at this link.
 * the image is listed on some strange wiki-type site, and says it is "Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike." Iljhgtn (talk) 00:16, 11 December 2023 (UTC)

Hello,. I have been an editor for over 14 years and an administrator for over six years. I am not personally aware of a single case where a non-free image is used in a biography of a living person. The relevant policy language can be found at Non-free content, which says. Later, the policy mentions as an excluded type of image. There is a narrow carve out for elderly people whose appearance has changed significantly, but I am not aware of that happening in practice. Senor is just 52 and was most prominent 10 to 15 years ago, that does not seem to apply, since it is possible that someone (you perhaps) could take a photo of Senor or ask him to freely license a selfie. The classic case is Kim Jong Un who came to power in 2012. Many editors argued vigorously for years, without success, that it was not possible to obtain a free image of Kim, but then he met with Donald Trump in 2018 and instantly, there were many public domain photos taken by White House photographers. Cullen328 (talk) 00:15, 11 December 2023 (UTC)


 * that is a good story. thank you. i am just trying to upload an image for dan senor, i did not want it to be an ordeal, but was just thinking of the best and correct way to do it and learn from it for future cases when i see a blp without an image. i used the wrong language maybe in asking for waht i am trying to accomplish. Iljhgtn (talk) 00:18, 11 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Hello, Iljhgtn, and welcome to the Teahouse. Thank you for wanting to help improve Wikipedia. Unfortunately, the fact is that many BLPs have no photos because nobody's managed to find a free one ColinFine (talk) 00:25, 11 December 2023 (UTC)
 * ok, well i think i may have found one for Dan Senor, so if this works and i did my due diligence and followed the instructions correctly, then i could apply this in other cases too. if you could look at what i found here and let me know if that is usable on his page in the infobox. Iljhgtn (talk) 00:27, 11 December 2023 (UTC)
 * No, that won't work. It says it is a non-commercial license.  For Wikipedia, it must be licensed in a way that allows reuse for any purpose.  RudolfRed (talk) 00:33, 11 December 2023 (UTC)
 * ok. well then looks like nothing might exist then. Iljhgtn (talk) 00:40, 11 December 2023 (UTC)
 * , that is casually labeled "White House photo". If you can find the original and verify that it was taken on the job by an employee of the US government, then it is in the public domain and OK to use. We can't trust that wiki. Cullen328 (talk) 00:48, 11 December 2023 (UTC)


 * You could crop his image from this: https://catalog.archives.gov/id/6644075 or this: https://catalog.archives.gov/id/6664353 --Tagishsimon (talk) 00:54, 11 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Ok so i cropped it, but then went to the file upload wizard and i tried to upload as non-free content, but none of the options seemed appropriate to me. is this free content actually? Iljhgtn (talk) 01:00, 11 December 2023 (UTC)
 * yes, this is free; public domain. Works of the US federal goverment are PD. --Tagishsimon (talk) 01:03, 11 December 2023 (UTC)
 * , that image isn't "non-free". As a work of a US government photographer, it is in the public domain, which is the opposite of non-free. Cullen328 (talk) 01:06, 11 December 2023 (UTC)
 * understood now. i thought non-free was like if i take the picture, but then that really would limit the number of non-free pictures hahaha. Iljhgtn (talk) 01:10, 11 December 2023 (UTC)
 * or free i meant to say................. Iljhgtn (talk) 01:10, 11 December 2023 (UTC)
 * , if you take a photo, it is non-free at that moment. If you choose to freely license it for re-use, then it is no longer non-free. Cullen328 (talk) 01:13, 11 December 2023 (UTC)
 * ok i did it. can someone please check my work to ensure that i did not mess it up. Iljhgtn (talk) 01:14, 11 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Dan Senor Iljhgtn (talk) 01:14, 11 December 2023 (UTC)
 * It's all good. I changed the licence on the commons image to PD-USGov, b/c that's the appropriate one; it's not a cc-by-sa-4.0, but, easy mistake to make :) --Tagishsimon (talk) 01:31, 11 December 2023 (UTC)
 * would that have been a mistake that got the image deleted? or would someone else normally just change that if they noticed the error? Iljhgtn (talk) 01:33, 11 December 2023 (UTC)
 * 99 times out of 100 it would just have been changed; 1 in 100 times someone might send it for deletion, but even then it's most likely to have been picked up by someone who understood what was going on; vanishingly unlikely to lead to a deletion. Maybe would get a note of advice on your talk page. It's not uncommon for images to be loaded with a cc-by-sa-4.0 and to have that modified to a more appropriate licence later. --Tagishsimon (talk) 01:55, 11 December 2023 (UTC)

Wikipedia editing dispute
I vaguly remember something about an editing dispute regarding some specification of (I think it was) a wristwatch with regard to the reliability of the secondary source and that people went great lengths to have this corrected on Wikipedia because editors kept reverting it. Does anyone know what this refers to? PhotographyEdits (talk) 00:35, 11 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Hello, . You are probably referring to a discussion at Reliable sources/Noticeboard/Archive 240, spefically number 10 - The Watch Quote. Cullen328 (talk) 03:58, 11 December 2023 (UTC)

Help category new article
Hi, I made a big blunder by creating a page Telugu Desam Party breakaway groups instead of creating a category that I was going to. Please help resolve this. 456legend (talk) 05:45, 11 December 2023 (UTC)


 * Hey there. If you do not want that page you've created, you can request a deletion request under the G7 criteria. 🛧 Midori No Sora♪ 🛪 ( ☁＝☁＝✈  ) 05:54, 11 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Yea thank you. I just did that. 456legend  (talk) 06:09, 11 December 2023 (UTC)
 * 👍 🛧 Midori No Sora♪ 🛪 ( ☁＝☁＝✈  ) 08:03, 11 December 2023 (UTC)

2023 Betelgeuse occultation
As you may know the star Betelgeuse will be occulted in a rare event on December 12 after 01:00 UTC. It has been covered in the star article and also 319 Leona. Can we also have a separate article for it? Aminabzz (talk) 09:22, 11 December 2023 (UTC)
 * The visual dimming of Betelgeuse because the asteroid will pass between the star and earth is well-covered in both the star and asteroid articles. Personally, I see no merit in the creation of a separate article for this brief, one-time event. David notMD (talk) 09:46, 11 December 2023 (UTC)

Ideenschmied & Erfinder
Ich möchte von Beginn an Berichten, wie der Ideenschmied & Erfinder, entstanden ist, und warum. Darf ich das tun ?

Herzliche Grüße und eine besinnliche Weihnachtszeit. Ideenschmied &#38; Erfinder (talk) 07:46, 11 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Hello, . This is the English Wikipedia. Please ask at the German Wikipedia. Cullen328 (talk) 07:59, 11 December 2023 (UTC)


 * Happy holiday season yourself, Ideenschmied &#38; Erfinder. If you can find reliable material about some subject, material that's published and disinterested, you are free to write a draft about it in English for English-language Wikipedia. If you want to do it in German, you'd better ask at German-language Wikipedia. (Each Wikipedia is independent of the others.) But since you, with this username, have so far made a total of one edit (above) to this Wikipedia and none to any other, you'd be wise to practise making constructive additions to existing articles before embarking on a new article. -- Hoary (talk) 08:03, 11 December 2023 (UTC)
 * (translating Cullen328's message into German, for OP's ease of reading)
 * Hallo, Ideenschmied & Erfinder. Dies ist die englische Wikipedia. Bitte fragen Sie bei der
 * deutschen Wikipedia nach. ContributeToTheWiki (talk &#8226; contribs) 13:30, 11 December 2023 (UTC)

Captcha
Whenever I want to publish my edits, I have to do a captcha, does this stop when I'm verified?

Thank you

Cyprus76 Cyprus76 (talk) 14:19, 11 December 2023 (UTC)


 * Cyprus76 non-autoconfirmed users have to complete a captcha when introducing a new external link to an article. So yes, this will go away once your account is 4 days and 10 edits old. Sungodtemple (talk &#8226; contribs) 14:26, 11 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you! Cyprus76 (talk) 14:28, 11 December 2023 (UTC)

Dovevo fare una pagina?
Come trovare un posto per fare un articolo? Snipercobra (talk) 20:38, 10 December 2023 (UTC)


 * @Snipercobra: The first thing to decide is whether you want to write in Italian at the Italian Wikipedia or in English here at the English Wikipedia. Then consider that creating a new Wikipedia article can be quite challenging, especially if you do not have a lot of experience editing existing Wikipedia articles.  To learn how to edit, I suggest you start at Help:Introduction.  I suggest spending a significant amount of time editing existing articles to hone your skills.  Once you're ready to create an article, you would gather multiple independent reliable sources that have provided significant coverage of the subject, and determine whether it meets Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion, called "notability".  If so, you could follow the instructions at Help:Your first article and summarize what the sources have published, and be prepared for a process that may include waiting for review, declines, and rewrites before an article is accepted.  Hope this helps, and happy editing!  GoingBatty (talk) 20:46, 10 December 2023 (UTC)
 * hey, pal, this is the english wikipedia, if you want to edit something in Italian, check out the italian wikipedia.
 * ehi amico, questa è la Wikipedia inglese, se vuoi modificare qualcosa in italiano, controlla la Wikipedia italiana. Babysharkboss2 was here!!  ( Talk to me! ) ( Goo Goo dolls ) 16:08, 11 December 2023 (UTC)

How to create a page for a famous person's wife that is now notable?
How to create a page for a famous person's wife that is now notable? She is listed on her husband's wikipedia page, so now how can a page be created that will link to her own page? Knight0071 (talk) 16:31, 11 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Probably, read WP:YFA. If an article is successfully created, it can be linked to from her husband's page. --Tagishsimon (talk) 16:34, 11 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Wow, thank you for such a fast response! I read somewhere that you can post for this article to be written, is that true? If so, where can I post? Knight0071 (talk) 16:37, 11 December 2023 (UTC)
 * There's Requested articles, but I doubt that it works. If you want an article, you're best off rolling up your sleeves and diving in. --Tagishsimon (talk) 16:45, 11 December 2023 (UTC)
 * @Knight0071 You can make suggestions at WP:RA but as that page says Most requested articles will not be written.. In this particular case, you may be better off making the suggestion at the Talk Page of the husband as editors who have the page on their watchlist are most likely to be the ones interested. Mike Turnbull (talk) 16:45, 11 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Awesome, Thank you! I'll give that a try :) Knight0071 (talk) 16:47, 11 December 2023 (UTC)

Badly editing
I wanted to edit life of pi book cover image for a better one though I didn't manage to do it and it didn't work and so you didn't accept it. Could it be possible to replace the image by a better one : The one of The canons editions because it is prettier and more descriptive.

Thank you TherealJojo08 (talk) 14:54, 11 December 2023 (UTC)


 * TherealJojo08, to introduce a new image to an article, you need to first upload it. Since the book cover of The Life of Pi is copyrighted, you will need to upload a non-free image under fair use. See WP:Upload wizard to get started. You should also make sure that the other book cover is more descriptive (being prettier doesn't count). Sungodtemple (talk &#8226; contribs) 14:57, 11 December 2023 (UTC)
 * @TherealJojo08: Welcome to the Teahouse! To discuss this with others interested in the Life of Pi article, I suggest asking at Talk:Life of Pi while providing a URL of the image you prefer.  Happy editing! GoingBatty (talk) 15:06, 11 December 2023 (UTC)
 * You gotta upload a non-free version of an image for it to be used. Babysharkboss2 was here!!  ( Talk to me! ) ( Goo Goo dolls ) 16:01, 11 December 2023 (UTC)


 * TherealJojo08, the current image is of the World's First Edition of the book, which is usually the one preferred (since it relates to the bibliographic details immediately below), and it is of good quality. Why do you want to replace it, and why should one other particular cover of the many that exist (twelve or more can be seen at ISFDB, for example) replace it, other than your personal preference?
 * Incidentally, by "The canons edition" you presumably mean Canongate Books: of the covers in my external link above, four entirely different ones from Canongate are included – do you mean one of these, or yet another? {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 90.199.215.44 (talk) 17:06, 11 December 2023 (UTC)

I Need Your Help for my Issue
Article:Jishnu Raghavan was tagged for Speedy deletion so please help me to rectify that. So only I had created with Page:Jishnu (Malayalam actor) but why do you again moved to page:Jishnu Raghavan I think that's why the another user tagged for G5. So please help me. This article should not get deleted Jeevan shree (talk) 06:13, 11 December 2023 (UTC)
 * ✅ per https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Jishnu_Raghavan&diff=prev&oldid=1189341442 Leoneix (talk) 07:37, 11 December 2023 (UTC)
 * OP is now blocked indefinitely as a sockpuppet. Shantavira|feed me 17:36, 11 December 2023 (UTC)

Is this book an acceptable reference for an article related to pipe organs?
'Registration (organ)' has a template message requesting addiitonal citatins, and indeed the multi-paragraph article currently has only one. The article has had little editing activity. I came across this source unrelated to an intent to edit the page, [Https://www.scottbrothersduo.com/how-to-play-the-pipe-organ.htm https://www.scottbrothersduo.com/how-to-play-the-pipe-organ.htm] then looked up the topic in wikipedia. Before I buy the book I'd like to know whether it is sufficiently authoritative to cite in Wikipedia. It has no ISBN nor, to the best of my knowledge, any publicly archived paper copy.

Thank you very much. Rosie Willis (talk) 15:55, 11 December 2023 (UTC)
 * It's a self-published PDF. It is unlikely to be in wikipedia terms a reliable source, per WP:RSSELF, although if there is evidence that the author has been published by reliable, independent publications, it may be acceptable. In this case, it's probably quite a harsh judgement; I think the author does know exactly what he's talking about :( --Tagishsimon (talk) 16:14, 11 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you. That's in line with what I expected, but since I agree with your last comment I wanted to check. Rosie Willis (talk) 17:36, 11 December 2023 (UTC)

What to do when multiple reliable sources publish misleading information?
In regards to Dave the Diver - Wikipedia this article. An administrator previously threatened to block a user for trying to edit the article to state that the game was not an indie game, when in fact it was. The admin's reasoning was due to reliable sources stating the game was "indie". Even though the incident appears to be resolved it makes me curious about how a similar incident would be solved for posterity 🅶🅰🅼🅾🆆🅴🅱🅱🅴🅳 (talk) 13:08, 6 December 2023 (UTC)


 * @Gamowebbed WP:RSN. Doug Weller  talk 18:27, 6 December 2023 (UTC)
 * @Gamowebbed WP:DR might be of interest. When there's dispute about whether a source is reliable or not for any particular piece of information, and editors politely but persistently disagree, that tends to go to WP:DRN or WP:3O and maybe eventually WP:RFC. If someone is a dick about it or otherwise disrupts that process, that's when admins tend to step in. An admin shouldn't be using the threat of blocks to enforce a content issue like "what do the sources say". -- asilvering (talk) 12:18, 7 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the info @Asilvering, I have decided to submit an ANI to seek administrator counsel. 🅶🅰🅼🅾🆆🅴🅱🅱🅴🅳 (talk) 14:27, 8 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Oh dear. -- asilvering (talk) 16:12, 8 December 2023 (UTC)
 * For posterity. Folly Mox (talk) 03:56, 10 December 2023 (UTC)
 * I mean, it is true that DtD isn't an indie game. Nexon is one of the biggest gaming companies in the world and they are a multi-billion dollar company. Just because it's a small team doesn't mean it's indie, Mintrocket is still just another name for Nexon. There's probably sources that back this up. Nexon/Mintrocket said themselves that the game looks like an indie game but it's not. It's really shady that they pretended to be an indie game studio. WhereverWeAreNow (talk) 17:38, 11 December 2023 (UTC)

I need review and help on a draft, how to get some ?
Hi there ! I'm totally new and wikipedia but working since a couple of month on an article about Soundpainting (a sign-language used for live-composition) and I submitted it twice, and it has been twice decline. I've changed a lot of things, added a lot of other sources, but I don't see how I can improve it more... Could anyone give me some help to make it more read like an encyclopedic article and less like an essay ? Thanks a lot !!

Here is the draft : Draft:Soundpainting

Looking forward to hear/read from you --AnnePernas (talk) 11:35, 9 December 2023 (UTC)


 * @AnnePernas Wikidata shows that there are already nine other-language articles on soundpainting, including in French, German, Italian and Spanish. These won't be perfect but may give you some ideas. Currently, you have a table of ensembles which I don't think helps the draft, since they are unsourced, and as you say "This list is absolutely non-exhaustive." which is, indeed, essay-speak. Mike Turnbull (talk) 11:53, 9 December 2023 (UTC)
 * , it's translated from the French version according to fr:Discussion utilisateur:Binabik and HTML comments within the draft itself like, hence the translation attribution template at Draft talk:Soundpainting. Rotideypoc41352 (talk · contribs) 12:56, 9 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Actually, I also wrote this french-english draft. Because I'm french, I thought I could use the french version of wikipedia to create an article in english. So that's why I created it twice. The list however is not a translation, and I think for now, I'll just erase it. I first gave links to websites of every ensemble I was talking about, but it appears that it's forbidden on wikipedia, because it sounds too much like an ad, which I completely understand! So for now, I'll erase it, and maybe one day I'll re-work on it with someone else! Thanks a lot for the tip! AnnePernas (talk) 20:16, 11 December 2023 (UTC)
 * as far as I can understand Draft:Soundpainting, it's about a sign language used by an extemporising conductor to convey their intentions to the performers. it's unclear whether it's about a particular such language, or about any such language. Either way, it would improved by a few examples of gestures and their meanings. Maproom (talk) 09:09, 10 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Yes it's exactly that : a specific sign language used by a soundpainter (conductor) to ask specific material (sound, movements...) to the performers. Thanks for the recommandation to add examples of gestures and meanings ! AnnePernas (talk) 20:13, 11 December 2023 (UTC)

How to deal with excessive detail
On the page firefighting there are sections with excessive detail that would only interest some people (like me) I am wondering if I should 1. make it more simple and to the point 2.just get rid of some of it or 3. put it in a different page 50tr5 (talk) 16:14, 11 December 2023 (UTC)


 * Any of those are options, and there's also option 4) leave it alone. I suggest WP:BRD is your friend. --Tagishsimon (talk) 16:20, 11 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Hello 50tr5. You may want to make a comment on the article's Talk page, stating you are considering removing excess detail, and possibility making a new article for the removed information. Ask if others have objections to that, and if they have other options. Wait a week or two for replies before making major changes. That way those who may be watching the article will have a heads up and can discuss the matter if they have strong opinions. Karenthewriter (talk) 18:02, 11 December 2023 (UTC)
 * thanks to both of you I will do that 50tr5 (talk) 20:22, 11 December 2023 (UTC)

Advice on better sources please
I've had a non-contentious AfC rejected several times now on the basis that the references are not reliable enough. I also note when reading the internal help pages that some of Britain's National Newspapers are not considered reliable sources. The organisation in question is a 50-year-old trade organisation. Admittedly it does not have huge membership because it works in the niche field of equestrian sport, but nobody questions its existence except article reviewers here! I use five references in my article. One is a national directory of photographers. One is the British trade body for Sports Journalists, the SJA. Another is a World-famous magazine which has been featured in several films. I realise that these are not the New York Times (but some would question its impartiality on many issues) but the organisation is not the subject of lots of news articles. It's a professional organisation. Not "notable" in the sense of it being exciting, but definitely still worthy of note. Arguable more than some of the random articles which do get approved here e.g. computer games which don't yet exist. On a separate note my copy was deleted because it was similar to the contents of the About page on the organisation's website, which I co-wrote! How does one licence one's own work? Indie (talk) 14:30, 11 December 2023 (UTC)


 * Indomitable, to answer your first question, the definition of notability is defined by the general notability guideline and the notability guideline for organizations, not the subjective 'notability' described in your comment. Essentially, you need three sources, which need not be online, which are independent, in-depth, and reliable. What are those best three sources?
 * To answer your second question, see WP:DCP. Sungodtemple (talk &#8226; contribs) 14:38, 11 December 2023 (UTC)
 * @Indomitable: you may wish to review the concept of notability, which is a core requirement for inclusion in Wikipedia. In most cases, that simply means that the subject has been covered by multiple independent and reliable media (preferably secondary), of their own volition, and in significant extent and detail. This excludes primary sources, sources close to the subject, and any source which cannot be regarded as reliable. How old the organisation is, how many members it has, etc. has nothing to do with notability. I note that on your own talk page you say "We are trying to educate the broader media that a fifty-year-old trade body has changed its name in order to reflect changes in the way media works. My brief as a member of the committee is to update the BEWA website as BEMA and to do things such as create a Wikipedia page to spread the word." Unfortunately, this is of no interest to Wikipedia, and you should not attempt to use this website as your organisation's communication tool. -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 14:38, 11 December 2023 (UTC)
 * , no one is questioning the existence of the organization. That's a red herring. What is being questioned is the group's notability, as Wikipedia editors define that term. There are millions of organizations in the world, and the vast majority are not notable for a Wikipedia article. It is your obligation to demonstate that this particular organization is notable by providing references to significant coverage of the group in reliable sources that are entirely independent of the group. That means no press releases and no prompting by representatives of the organization. If you can show that your organization is truly notable as defined by Wikipedia, then of course, we want to mention its recent name change. But if not, then the name change is irrelevant to Wikipedia. By no means do the references need to be to publications as well-known as the New York Times. There are many thousands of newspapers, magazines, websites and journals that are perfectly acceptable. And then there are books. Cullen328 (talk) 20:29, 11 December 2023 (UTC)

Book has Editors not Authors
Is there a accepted way to identify the named 2 people as Editors. When I try to put (Editor) after their names I get a Template warning about the names being Generic. The Template has the option for many Authors but only one Editor BlueWren0123 (talk) 19:59, 11 December 2023 (UTC) oops "an accepted..." — Preceding unsigned comment added by BlueWren0123 (talk • contribs) 20:19, 11 December 2023 (UTC)


 * Hello, BlueWren0123, and welcome to the Teahouse. You need to go into the source editor and directly edit the  template. ContributeToTheWiki (talk &#8226; contribs) 21:11, 11 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Will give that a go. BlueWren0123 (talk) 21:29, 11 December 2023 (UTC)

I want to put out my family
I want to publish a document about my family describing it Amo117 (talk) 20:53, 11 December 2023 (UTC)


 * I don't really understand you. Do you mean you want to publish a page about your family? If so, it's highly discouraged. Babysharkboss2 was here!!  ( Talk to me! ) ( Goo Goo dolls ) 20:58, 11 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Its not really my family but I have heard of it and asked thats why i am asking if I could post in in Wiki the family has risen from rubbish to wealth in the last 50 years so yeah Amo117 (talk) 21:00, 11 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Well, going over your only edit, it's vandalism of the Family page. But, you can make any page as long as it follows the wiki rules and has good sources. the All seeing omni-potent wikipedia article wizard could help Babysharkboss2 was here!!  ( Talk to me! ) ( Goo Goo dolls ) 21:03, 11 December 2023 (UTC)
 * you now someone that can help me make it better because I am doing it in german Amo117 (talk) 21:25, 11 December 2023 (UTC)
 * and also thank you very much for your help Amo117 (talk) 21:26, 11 December 2023 (UTC)
 * @Amo117 Well, for starters your edit to Family was in German. If you want to contribute in German, you'll have to do that over at the German Wikipedia, though - here at the english Wikipedia we can only accept English contributions. That being said, As written the post wouldn't be appropriate for either Wikipedia (even if one translates it to english) as it is entirely unsourced, something which is not permitted both here and there and contains non-neutral terms such as,  and , which is also not permitted both here and there. I'll drop a welcome message with more info on your talkpage. Victor Schmidt mobil (talk) 21:32, 11 December 2023 (UTC)

Content for Biographies of Living People? Halp!
Ok. So.....I've been trying to be active in helping edit biographies of living people. However, almost ALL of them contain copious amounts of information that is unverifiable or irrelevant -- like "so and so was in a Shakespeare play in high school."

In reviewing the WIKIpedia rules, i found -- "No original research" (NOR) is one of three core content policies that, along with Neutral point of view and Verifiability, determines the type and quality of material acceptable in articles.

So, does one just delete irrelevant and unverifiable info? Or? Slacker13 (talk) 00:20, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Slacker13, you should ensure that the citations placed after a claim within the same paragraph do not verify claims—presupposing you have, and the claims are spurious, unverifiable, or could possibly be contested (in the case of BLP), you are indeed encouraged to remove the unsourced claims. Remsense  留  00:27, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
 * In general, if you wish to improve BLPs in this respect, you'd either seek references for claims, or you'd remove the claim. Equally, starting from a hyperbolic premise of "almost ALL of them contain copious amounts of information that is unverifiable or irrelevant" is itself problematic; it is unlikely that almost all of them of them contain copious amounts of information that is unverifiable; and the question of irrelevancy is surely a value judgement and an issue distinct from verifibility? If you're on a crusade, the possibility is that you'll do more harm than good. --Tagishsimon (talk) 00:30, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Granted, I haven't reviewed ALL the BLP's, but the ones I have seen -- ALL read like marketing fodder (original research, non-neutral POV and non verifiable), rather than factual biographies. Not that I'm on a crusade, but man, if these people are paying for their bios to be written it can't be any more obvious. Does the general public really need to know what high school play you were in?  Slacker13 (talk) 00:54, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
 * For the specific example you raise, I think context is important. If the subject of the BLP is, say, an astronaut, then perhaps it is not important. If the subject is an actor, then it is absolutely arguable that it is relevant to discuss the first production he played in. Because it is a subscription website I cannot read the source from which that claim seems to eminate on the John de Lancie article. I do come away with the impression that your assertion of the unimportance of this information in this biograhy is questionable and leaves something to be desired; and also come away with concern that the information may well be cited, contrary to the premise in your original post. It leaves me wondering what all this is about. --Tagishsimon (talk) 01:11, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
 * really? This was the cruxt of my original question. How to determine relevant information when it doesn't match Wikipedia guidelines. In the case of John de Lancie -- you really believe that being in a highschool play is relevant to his career? I would then posit then that all the actors should list their highschool plays -- but only if it is non original research and varifiable -- which seems silly. Most children in gradeschool in the US are in some sort of production -- should all actors list them? I would imagine, yes, to list it if it was unusual in some way -- like he was given an award for it, he was written up for it. etc. Otherwise sounds like Marketing text to fill up and page and make the amount of work seem more relevant.  Slacker13 (talk) 01:22, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
 * You are potentially conflating the distinct concepts of due weight and verifiability, they are sometimes related, but should usually be evaluated separately. One should not be used to directly imply the other. Remsense  留  01:27, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks! I'll review and keep in mind. Slacker13 (talk) 01:44, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Tagishsimon Oh you can read it, using my loophole of how to get around paywalls Danstarr69 (talk) 01:22, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
 * TagishsimonSlacker13 John de Lancie What made you decide to pursue a career as an actor? ''"I was not a good student, and the reason I was not a good student is that I didn’t know how to read. … I was dyslexic, but at the time that was not really a word that was used. What was used was “mildly retarded” or “slow.” I ended up flunking out of a couple of schools. The last school I went to, they said “Oh, no, no, we think he’s dyslexic,” but nobody really knew what to do with that. I probably was 14 by that time.
 * My teacher, who was really quite a wonderful teacher … we would do projects. One year, we would do Handel’s “Messiah.” Another year, we did “Marriage of Figaro,” and then this particular time of the year, it was in the springtime, he said, “We’re going to do ‘Henry V’ and de Lancie, you’re going to play ‘Hal’ [King Henry V].” I could barely read it, but I learned it, and I did it, and a gentleman who had come … took my father aside and he said, “If your son has an interest in this, you should encourage him because he has a flair for it.”
 * And so it came to me mostly as a life preserver, quite frankly."'' Danstarr69 (talk) 01:27, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
 * This is interesting context. I didn't see where this was added as a source for the high school play. What number is it? Slacker13 (talk) 01:42, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Slacker13 Number 4. It was added at the end of the long paragraph. It's now added in two sections of that paragraph, and might be useful for other sections of that paragraph, or elsewhere in the article. Danstarr69 (talk) 01:49, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
 * thanks! Slacker13 (talk) 01:53, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Slacker13 It depends. For example something like "Jane Doe starred in Shakespeare play at high school with John Doe. They later went on to work on a Shakespeare TV show together," would be fun trivia.
 * I can think of many examples like that related to my city, one of which are a married couple I based by example on, as they met on a TV set in my city where they played the two lead characters, then went on to work on another TV series together, which was also filmed in my city.
 * Whereas something like "Jane Doe starred in a Shakespeare play" by itself, is just useless information. Danstarr69 (talk) 01:16, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Yes, I agree. If it's interesting, absolutely. But in the case above, i don't think it met that criteria. Just my opinion. Slacker13 (talk) 01:27, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Your opinions are worthwhile! But luckily for everyone who may have them, as I noted above this discussion falls under the distinct, but helpful concept of due versus undue weight. Remsense  留  01:30, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
 * I'll spend some more time reading through the link you gave. It actually is very helpful. Slacker13 (talk) 01:45, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you, Danstarr69., as I noted, if the subject is an actor, then it is absolutely arguable that it is relevant to discuss the first production he played in. You'll forgive me if I say that I find your tone & argument somewhat deranged. Why would you not want to know when and how an actor got into acting? Why exactly would you think such information is Marketing text to fill up and page and make the amount of work seem more relevant. Of course, you are entitled to your view and entitled to write about your view. But for me you're singularly unpersuasive and your particular animus for what seems like pertinent and what is now confirmed to be sourced information seems more likely to be a risk of harm to the encyclopedia than a good. --Tagishsimon (talk) 01:33, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
 * I didn't make the change. I asked a question. I'm concerned that you've flagged my activity in asking questions, explaining my thinking, voicing an opinion, and contributing to active discussion -- as deranged and a risk of harm to the encyclopedia. Is this what i should expect if I ask a relevant question? I find your comments NOT kind, respectful, nor conducive to open discussion. Slacker13 (talk) 01:41, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
 * It is what you should expect if you are economical with the truth - that the context was an actor - if you mislead about the premise - the information was sourced - and if your tone is one of scorn - really?  - when measured arguments are put to you. --Tagishsimon (talk) 01:45, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
 * not scorn. disbelief. active debate allows for that, I would hope. Slacker13 (talk) 01:49, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Disbelief that it is relevant to specify when an actor got into acting? as you put it, really?. --Tagishsimon (talk) 01:57, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
 * no. disbelief that it would have been important to cite a high school play WITHOUT the context of it being the reason he got into acting -- as Danstarr69 mentioned below.  Slacker13 (talk) 02:00, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Notwithstanding Danstarr69's contribution, the sentence is He began to act around the age of 14, performing in a high school production of William Shakespeare's Henry V. It explains how & when an actor got into acting. Again: why would that not be relevant to the biography of an actor? --Tagishsimon (talk) 02:09, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
 * This is my question, truly. If it had not had special weight given to it because it helped him with dyslexia, etc. I, personally find it irrelevant simply because I would imagine a vast majority of people can point to something similar in whatever career they end up choosing. So where to draw the line? Yes, some facts are fun bits that add context, but I don't think all of them are. So, it really is my question -- how to draw the line? Slacker13 (talk) 02:14, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Additionally, yes, the factoid had a citation attached to it that provided context -- but for other BLP where there isn't a citation or context, how do you make sure it passes the "no original research" test? Slacker13 (talk) 02:16, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Well, as guidance, I beg to suggest that information on 'when & how did you get into your career' is highly relevant to a biography, fullstop. "When did you become an actor" is exactly one of those questions that an encyclopedia should be able to answer on the biography of an actor. It's not a 'fun fact'. The subject is notable as an actor. Information on when they became an actor is material to that which they are notable for. 'How to draw the line' is a difficult question to answer, but here I suggest that for each claim the author needs to ask 'does this information reasonably add to our understanding of the subject?'. For an actor biography, 'When did you become an actor': yes. 'What sort of car do you drive': no. Meanwhile if there is no citation and it is a claim which is worthwhile challenging, it can be removed. But you do need to check. In this instance, inter alia, you made the assertion that the information was not cited, but we now know that it was cited. --Tagishsimon (talk) 02:52, 12 December 2023 (UTC)


 * Slacker13 Basically...
 * 1 - John de Lancie - "Starred in a Shakespeare play" = Irrelevant.
 * 2 - John de Lancie - "Starred in a Shakespeare play, because it helped him to read, and made him want to become an actor" = Relevant.
 * Just like how the singer Gareth Gates helped to cure his speech problems by singing as a kid. Danstarr69 (talk) 01:47, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
 * I fully agree. But I did see the link to the article listing context for it. Which is why it originally raised questions for me. Slacker13 (talk) 01:50, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
 * did not see the article
 * Slacker13 (talk) 01:50, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
 * It actually is quite an interesting topic. Thank you all for your answers. I really am looking for guidance and I also really do have opinions. Always willing to discuss. Slacker13 (talk) 02:05, 12 December 2023 (UTC)

etiquette regarding banned users
Hi, I'm doing some cleanup after an editor who was recently banned permanently for a pattern of POV-pushing. I want to explain on the relevant talk pages why I am removing such large chunks from articles beyond the short explanations I put in my edit descriptions. I've noticed, however, that other editors tend to be very circumspect in similar circumstances. Are there guidelines about this? While I am relieved this editor is off the encyclopedia, I certainly take no pleasure in the fact and wish it had not come to that.

Thanks for any advice you might offer.

Cheers, Patrick J. Welsh (talk) 21:44, 10 December 2023 (UTC)


 * While the impulse for transparency is noble, there is also the consideration of prioritizing displaying the most relevant information to the most likely audience for it. I wouldn't worry too much about disclosing to every talk page. People who care to know can usually find out what has happened trivially, so a mention of a link to the relevant discussion or keywords in the edit summary if often more than sufficient. Remsense  留  21:54, 10 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Okay, thanks. I won't mention it unless I need to in order to justify my edits in response to a challenge. People who have been actively following the articles know what is going on. My concern is just that those who haven't would be understandably alarmed to see multiple paragraphs of sourced material completely deleted. But I'm fine just leaving it to be addressed later, just in the event the issue should arise.
 * Cheers, Patrick J. Welsh (talk) 22:03, 10 December 2023 (UTC)
 * best of luck, cheers! Remsense  留  23:07, 10 December 2023 (UTC)
 * {{re|Patrick J. Welsh, as Remsense said, you can just add a brief edit summary like "{{xt| Removing sourced content added by indeffed POV-pusher; see this discussion for details. }}" Mathglot (talk) 06:01, 12 December 2023 (UTC)

"says who"
I think that I have seen an annotation in an Article next to an unsupported claim that is something like [says who]. Have I remembered correctly. How do I put it into an Article> BlueWren0123 (talk) 01:07, 11 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Hello, . I think that you are looking for Template:According to whom. Cullen328 (talk) 01:10, 11 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Yes that is it.Thank you BlueWren0123 (talk) 01:26, 11 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Is there a list of these assorted Templates somewhere? BlueWren0123 (talk) 01:35, 11 December 2023 (UTC)
 * @BlueWren0123, I'm guessing this? Category:Inline citation and verifiability dispute templates. 🛧 Midori No Sora♪ 🛪 ( ☁＝☁＝✈  ) 01:42, 11 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you BlueWren0123 (talk) 01:44, 11 December 2023 (UTC)
 * BlueWren0123, yes, it's here:


 * Mathglot (talk) 06:24, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
 * you mean this?
 * it's   Babysharkboss2 was here!!  ( Talk to me! ) ( Goo Goo dolls ) 19:38, 11 December 2023 (UTC)

My request got declined but I don't know the reason. I couldn't find the reason yet ,what to edit. please help
"This submission's references do not show that the subject qualifies for a Wikipedia article—that is, they do not show significant coverage (not just passing mentions) about the subject in published, reliable, secondary sources that are independent of the subject (see the guidelines on the notability of people). Before any resubmission, additional references meeting these criteria should be added (see technical help and learn about mistakes to avoid when addressing this issue). If no additional references exist, the subject is not suitable for Wikipedia."

what does this mean? Editohub (talk) 21:32, 11 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Hello, . You are using your userpage for a fake encyclopedia article. This is not permitted. Your usepage is to tell other Wikipedia editors (not the world) about your interests, plans and accomplishments as a Wikipedia editor. If you are writing about yourself, then please read WP:AUTOBIOGRAPHY, as this is strongly discouraged. If you are trying to develop an encyclopedia article, then this should be done in draft space. Currently, the content is entirely unreferenced and is therefore not appropriate for the encyclopedia.  Cullen328 (talk) 21:51, 11 December 2023 (UTC)
 * @Cullen328 I believe this is about their declined draft, Draft:Asif Iqbal Jewel. @Editohub The english Wikipedia only accepts articles about subjects which meet our inclusion criteria, called notability (in this case, WP:DIRECTOR) and almost always boils down to multiple independent reliable sources devoting significant coverage to the subject.  Since the subject is still living, Wikipedia's policy on biographies of living people applies, with more stringent rules, including but not limited to that we require inline citations.  I am afraid that I had to tag most of the images you uploaded to Commons for speedy deletion under c:COM:PCP as it's unlikely a production company would put movie posters under a CC-0-License. In the case that they did, or if you are authorised to do so, please see WP:DCM.
 * I see now that you asked about this both here and at the AFC help desk, please only ask in one place at a time to avoid wasted volunteer effort. Victor Schmidt mobil (talk) 22:07, 11 December 2023 (UTC)
 * The userpage content and the draft content appear to be identical. Cullen328 (talk) 22:17, 11 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Userpage content now removed. David notMD (talk) 07:09, 12 December 2023 (UTC)

Question
What's the difference between visual editor and source editor? Bzik2324 (talk) 05:03, 12 December 2023 (UTC)


 * The visual editor attempts to be WYSIWYG and hides the wiki markup. The source editor shows the markup and provides an option to preview the end result. --Tagishsimon (talk) 05:35, 12 December 2023 (UTC)


 * In addition, the Visual Editor suffers from a number of limitations. Many of these probably won't be relevant to day-to-day editing, but others will be. See WP:VE for details. Mike Marchmont (talk) 10:53, 12 December 2023 (UTC)

IP Problem
A IP here was warned for causing problems on a few pages, deleting references to "genocide" without reason. The IP is now on different IP's, causing more of the same problems. The changes can be seen here.

How can this IP can be stopped? Marwanaircalm (talk) 09:19, 12 December 2023 (UTC)


 * Reported to WP:AIV. ContributeToTheWiki (talk &#8226; contribs) 11:20, 12 December 2023 (UTC)

Deletion a Draft
The next draft was deleted and marked as G-11. What causes the G-11 problem to be detected, what should I change so that this does not happen? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:Nano_nuclear_energy_in LucasEmanuelRocca (talk) 13:00, 12 December 2023 (UTC)


 * LucasEmanuelRocca Draft:Nano nuclear energy inc was tagged by another editor who thought that it was unambiguous advertising or spam, per WP:G11. I cannot see the deleted draft, but it should be obvious why it is advertising. You may wish to read WP:NOTADVERT. Sungodtemple (talk &#8226; contribs) 13:49, 12 December 2023 (UTC)


 * Admins might also wish to delete Draft:Nano Nuclear Energy Inc., yet another incarnation of the same article which is currently blanked by the user. G7 or G11, take your pick. --Tagishsimon (talk) 13:54, 12 December 2023 (UTC)

I want need
Recently, I had created one article under title Draft:Jishnu Raghavan Alingkil but again it was moved to draftspace and it was rejected. Considering beacause G5. I'm crating article for one of notable well-known actor in Malayalam Industry. what to do now Vicky Kumar26 (talk) 05:58, 12 December 2023 (UTC)


 * (User indeffed, draft deleted.) -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 06:46, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
 * okay, but, you gotta be honest, I want need has to be the funniest title i've seen yet on here. (anyway, good job with banning them!) Babysharkboss2 was here!!  ( Talk to me! ) ( Goo Goo dolls ) 14:14, 12 December 2023 (UTC)

Right margin is broken
Can anyone tell me why the right margin is broken at the start of the 2023–24 Northeast Conference men's basketball season section? How do I restore or reset the right margin? Taxman1913 (talk) 18:36, 11 December 2023 (UTC)


 * Looks broken on my end too Lewcm Talk to me! 19:41, 11 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Hi Taxman1913. Fixed by . If a section preview looks OK but not a full page view then there is usually something unterminated earlier in the page. PrimeHunter (talk) 00:26, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you, PrimeHunter! I searched and search but couldn't find the problem. Taxman1913 (talk) 14:16, 12 December 2023 (UTC)

Userpage Help
(User:Keagen J. Cole)

I was wanting to know: how do I make a subpage on my userpage without using the userbox maker? A lot of the articles I found on making a subpage manually either doesn't make sense or it doesn't give me a straight answer. :-\ ​-Keagen J. Cole ​🐾 (talk) 14:27, 12 December 2023 (UTC)


 * Dear Keagen J. Cole,
 * I think you can type user:username/intented_title_of_the_subpage and when you publish the changes, the wikilink apears red and click it and clicking "create article". I hope it helps, if any furthre confusion, kindly reply or go through Wikipedia:Subpages.
 * Regards
 * Yamantakks (talk) 14:45, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks a lot. :D  It actually worked! ​-Keagen J. Cole  ​🐾 (talk) 15:49, 12 December 2023 (UTC)

Regarding an article of a prominent living person
Hello, this is Yamantakks, hoping your day was going great. I was just randomly surfing about the web and lastly went to the article narendra modi and was reading the outer paragraphs which were written. I saw major criticism even on the topics like Article 370 which was, I believe, being misused even after the SC's verdict approving it. I believe that even if a figure is criticized, it should be kept under a seperate headings unless a major, inhuman crime is seriously linked with the personality and is supported by legal proofs. I think that the article needs serious rewriting because there are also any good deeds creditted to him and just blaming him for things on a reputable organization like wikipedia, is not justifiable and I came here to ask for help because the article is a major article and I believe it should be handled with great care and some more experienced editor should look into the matter. Regards Yamantakks (talk) 14:01, 12 December 2023 (UTC)


 * Narendra Modi is a hugely controversial person; you can rest assured that many editors are focussed on his article. You might wish to raise your specific concern on the talk page of the article. --Tagishsimon (talk) 14:06, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Dear Tagishsimon,
 * I want to raise concerns about it but I fear that I don't know much of the wikipedia policies regarding this and as many editors have their attention over the article, I fear raising my concerns as I would not be able to raise my concerns and they will be useless without any backing of any wikipedia policy(s). I wanted to ask for help regarding the wikipeida's policy regarding articles on famous figures so I can understand and see for any improvement.
 * With Regards,
 * Yamantakks (talk) 14:21, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
 * @Yamantakks The main policy is the one on the biographies of living people. As already advised, the best place to make comments is at Talk:Narendra Modi. Mike Turnbull (talk) 14:26, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
 * @Yamantakks In addition to what is seen at Talk:Narendra Modi the Talk page notes near the top that there are archives of older Talk page content. IT is possible that anything you have in mind has already been disccused. While standard Wikipedia guideline is edit the article, and go to Talk only if reverted by another editor, this article is so 'hot' that your best path is to propose new content (or deleting existing content) on the Talk page and abide by what other reply. David notMD (talk) 16:16, 12 December 2023 (UTC)

Could I use a picture avatar of an artist when I am not affiliated with the artist?
I'm creating an article on an artist named Inabakumori, and I'm wondering if I am allowed to use his picture avatar without explicit permission from them. If not, I can try to find someone to request permission. &#32; (talk) 04:21, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
 * You are not allowed to. You would need to get the artist to release the image under a permissive licence before it could be used on WP. --Tagishsimon (talk) 04:43, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Alright! I can attempt to send the artist an email asking him to release the image under a permissive license. I've checked the WIkimedia Commons guidelines, which doesn't seem to contain any information on profile pictures and the like.
 * How would I know the image is licensed correctly? Would he have to upload it to somewhere like Flickr? &#32; (talk) 05:17, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
 * You can have the artist send a confirmation email to WP:VRT that the he published the artwork in a free license. Ca <sup style="display:inline-flex;rotate:7deg;">talk to me!  05:29, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
 * You can use their pfp, if it's in public domain. so, If they have something like a winnie-the-pooh profile pic of YouTube (idk, it's the first PD thing I thought of), we could use it on their page without permission, since Winne--the-pooh is public domain. but if they have something else, that's copyrighted (like a James Bond pic or something), we'd need permisson. we only upload/use non-free pics. Babysharkboss2 was here!!  ( Talk to me! ) ( Goo Goo dolls ) 14:17, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Remeber to tell the artist that if the avatar is of his own making, I believe that giving permission would allow anyone to have free use of the image everywhere (coffee mugs, T-shirts...). David notMD (talk) 16:09, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
 * nukunukunigirimeshi is someone that worked closely with the artist for years. I believe the avatar itself is by the artist, as it's been the same since 2016. &#32; (talk) 16:20, 12 December 2023 (UTC)

Monthly Donation
Hi, I began monthly donations over a year ago so that I could give more as I really believe in Wikipedia and its mission, thank you for what you do! But I need to stop the pop ups to donate, I feel horrible ignoring them. And also get a tad annoyed. I just created my online account, at least I don’t recall having created one in the past.. I read once recently that there was a way to do this, but can’t find it? Can anyone share this process please. Sw8689 (talk) 18:32, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
 * @Sw8689: If you don't want to see the fundraising banners, you can uncheck  in your preferences. — Tenryuu 🐲  ( 💬 • 📝 ) 18:35, 12 December 2023 (UTC)

Grae Cleugh
Hi

Theres been a bit of buzz about this today and an article request was posted here. I wrote a quick article that meets notability guidelines, not known for a single event, secondary sources, numerous red links requiring clarity.

Clearly there is more to add but the bare bones looks good to me. Can anyone make any minor tweaks and resubmit. 86.167.216.44 (talk) 17:27, 12 December 2023 (UTC)


 * It needs much more than minor tweaks. Please see the advice you have been given at Draft:Grae Cleugh.Shantavira|feed me 17:34, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
 * your right about the bare bones part. Try adding more content, expanding, and adding things like more ref's, or categories. Babysharkboss2 was here!!  ( Talking Head's ) ( Goo Goo Dolls ) 17:41, 12 December 2023 (UTC)


 * The main issue is the lack of reliable sources - WP:RS - not the need for more content, expanding, nor categories, none of which are reasons for the article not being promoted. Please don't give new users very poor advice; it's unhelpful. --Tagishsimon (talk) 17:49, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Please don't give out misleading advice. This draft was declined for lack of evident notability, and more content won't resolve that, at least not directly. And categories should not be added to a draft, not that they would have any bearing on notablity, either. -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 17:49, 12 December 2023 (UTC)


 * Please don't ask the same question at several places. This has also been answered at the AfC HD. -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 17:46, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
 * There is no advice.
 * The article meets minimum requirements, please publish. 86.167.216.44 (talk) 17:49, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
 * There is advice: that it lacks reliable sources. It will not be published until that is addressed. --Tagishsimon (talk) 17:50, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
 * The article meets minimum requirements, please publish[.], yeah, no. just because some page meets the minimum of something doesn't mean it'll be good. I could fill out every required test answers, doesn't mean i'll pass. On Wikipedia, same thing, the minimum of what you put in, is going to be met with minimum response, in your case, rejecting your article.  Babysharkboss2 was here!!  ( Talking Head's ) ( Goo Goo Dolls ) 17:52, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Babysharkboss2, please STOP giving bad, and in this case completely incoherent advice. It is disruptive and unhelpful. --Tagishsimon (talk) 17:56, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Babysharkboss2, please STOP giving bad, aight. Babysharkboss2 was here!!  ( Talking Head's ) ( Goo Goo Dolls ) 18:01, 12 December 2023 (UTC)


 * Its the same reference as this page 2002 Laurence Olivier Awards, are you suggesting that page should be deleted. 86.167.216.44 (talk) 17:54, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
 * a short article clears up the red link issue. 86.167.216.44 (talk) 17:55, 12 December 2023 (UTC)


 * You can either take the advice given, 86.167.216.44, or watch the article languish as a draft. Your choice. Bar-room lawyering is not going to move the dial. What may be a reasonable cite for a set of awards may be insufficient for a BLP. --Tagishsimon (talk) 17:58, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
 * There is no particular need to "clear up the red link issue". And even a short article will need to demonstrate notability before it will be published. -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 17:59, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Yes there is. Red links are routinely deleted. 86.167.216.44 (talk) 18:11, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
 * The article 2002 Laurence Olivier Awards demonstrates one notable event with 2 references on that page, the publishers page provides a brief and reliable biography backed up by a secondary biography at doolee.com. A review demonstrates it is not a passing mention.
 * I disagree with your assertion and you have been unable to coonvince me otherwis as you do not provide concise reasoning just extrapolated arguments which are without merit. 86.167.216.44 (talk) 18:14, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
 * That's fine. Still doesn't get the article promoted, though, does it? --Tagishsimon (talk) 18:16, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
 * I doesnt need promoted, it needs published. would adding a coupl of reviews of his work in national press help promote it. 86.167.216.44 (talk) 18:19, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Promotion, in this context, is the same as published. Yes, adding reviews in would help. --Tagishsimon (talk) 18:21, 12 December 2023 (UTC)


 * The thing is, I don't need to convince you of anything. You need to convince an AfC reviewer (and I'm more than happy to recuse myself) that this draft warrants publication. -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 18:19, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
 * I added the less reliable doolee reference as it verifies the facts on his publisher Bloomsbury's website.
 * I disagree that his publishers website is not a valid source.
 * I added a couple of national press reviews for context, and added the references from 2002 Laurence Olivier Awards. 86.167.216.44 (talk) 18:51, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
 * And resubmitted. Declining reviewer User:NoobThreePointOh suggested other editors can help. 86.167.216.44 (talk) 19:06, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Further context: Talk:Royal Conservatoire of Scotland, User talk:Primefac —<i style="color: #1E90FF;">Jéské Couriano</i> v^&lowbar;^v  Source assessment notes 18:20, 12 December 2023 (UTC)

The Lawrence Olivier Award for Most Promising Playright is not a sigificant award (awarded only in 2002 and 2003 and then discontinued). David notMD (talk) 22:01, 12 December 2023 (UTC)

Draft deleted with statement that it was created by a blocked User, using an IP address. David notMD (talk) 22:05, 12 December 2023 (UTC)

Is "Album of the Year" a valid source?
I've seen this site numerous times when looking for more independent sources for more information on an article I'm working on.

The site seems to be a journal that writes on albums and singles releasing, but it may be user-generated content, with some content appearing to be automatically generated

While on the topic, I'd also like to know what sites are valid and invalid as a source for an album/song releasing, (Spotify, Apple Music, Genius, Amazon Music, etc), I've looked through some of the guidelines on what sources would be allowed or not, but I can't tell if these sources would be independent or not &#32; (talk) 18:40, 12 December 2023 (UTC)


 * The reliable sources noticeboard is usually the place for this. Sungodtemple (talk &#8226; contribs) 19:20, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
 * @Vanillyn: The consensus at Reliable sources/Noticeboard/Archive 316 is that it is not considered a reliable source. More information can be found at WikiProject Albums/Sources. GoingBatty (talk) 22:32, 12 December 2023 (UTC)