Wikipedia:Teahouse/Questions/Archive 344

Citation template for Historical Trust
Can anyone figure out a good citation template for this?

National Register of Historic Places?

NRHP Reference # 79000590 "National Register Information System". National Register of Historic Places. National Park Service. 2009-03-13. http://nrhp.focus.nps.gov/natreg/docs/All_Data.html

Thanks, Justapersona (talk) 20:01, 19 May 2015 (UTC)
 * in many confusing situations you can simply use "cite web". -- Human 3015  Say Hey!! • 20:19, 19 May 2015 (UTC)
 * HI . There is a whole world of templates (including an infobox) associated with articles about places in the register. See Template:NRISref which is probably what you are looking for. StarryGrandma (talk) 04:17, 20 May 2015 (UTC)

7:00AM and 7:00PM
Hey. How should AM and PM be written in an article? I have seen AM, am, a.m., A.M., PM, pm, p.m. and P.M.. Does it even matter? —DangerousJXD (talk) 09:00, 20 May 2015 (UTC)
 * , always lowercase but either am or a.m. is acceptable as long as the article is consistent. WP:MOSTIME explains it all more fully. Nthep (talk) 09:13, 20 May 2015 (UTC)

Adding pictures
Hello everyone! I've just added a picture to the page Charles de La Vieuvillebut I don't know how to make it smaller. Could you help me, please?

Courtously, User: The Count of Zielin — Preceding undated comment added 11:39, 20 May 2015 (UTC)

After the file name, you can add a size, for example |200px makes them 200px size (which is a standard sort of size). Also, for reference, new Teahouse question usually go at the top of the page (unlike most other boards, where it's at the bottom). Joseph2302 (talk) 11:46, 20 May 2015 (UTC)

Conflicting sources
Hi I'm still new on Wiki and am in a bit of a predicament. I'm working on the article Tove Lo and in some of the research I've done while expanding the article, I've came across instances where sources differ on certain facts. These instances are:
 * Some sources say she wrote her first song at age ten and others say at age 11.
 * Some sources say her first song was titled "Crazy", while others say it's "People Think I Am Crazy".
 * Some sources she met an A&R (which connected her to a publishing company) at Icona Pop's record deal celebration party in Stockholm, while others say she met the A&R by chance in London.

I'm not familiar as to what I should in such a situation. Some assistance would be really appreciated. Thanks in advance. Slay A Bit (talk) 05:43, 20 May 2015 (UTC)
 * if you think the sources that are providing the conflicting information are reliable then use both of them. Something to the effect: "Lo wrote her first song at an early age, some sources say she was only 10 and others say 11 ".  This way the entry remains neutral and the information is verified.  Nthep (talk) 08:30, 20 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks . Slay A Bit (talk) 11:52, 20 May 2015 (UTC)

Any feedback on this new article?
My second new article...

Any feedback welcome. It's short & sweet. Okay to post this?

It will be better with pictures (see: https://www.google.com/search?&tbm=isch&q=Cruise+Room+Denver+Bar ) Not sure how to solve that just now.

Thanks. Justapersona (talk) 20:31, 19 May 2015 (UTC)


 * User:Justapersona/Cruise Room -- I assume that's what you're talking about? — Jeraphine Gryphon (talk) 20:36, 19 May 2015 (UTC)
 * I like it . I have made two minor WP:MOS fixes and that's all. For the most part pictures from the internet are not allowed, unless they are under the correct license. Best place to learn more is c:Commons:Licensing. EoRdE6(Come Talk to Me!) 22:27, 19 May 2015 (UTC)


 * I have made some additional MOS, grammar and typo fixes.--ukexpat (talk) 13:01, 20 May 2015 (UTC)

Wow. Thank you, everyone. So much to learn. Love it. Justapersona (talk) 14:44, 20 May 2015 (UTC)

How to cite a reference twice
I have forgotten how to cite a reference twice. How is this done? Rubbish computer 15:19, 20 May 2015 (UTC)


 * Hello and welcome back. I am sad to see that your computer is still rubbish. However, Named references should provide what you need. Arthur goes shopping (talk) 15:22, 20 May 2015 (UTC)

Thank you. Rubbish computer 15:23, 20 May 2015 (UTC)


 * At start of first citation add a name, e.g. , and then the code for using it again would be . Joseph2302 (talk) 15:24, 20 May 2015 (UTC)

How to draft an article in userspace
Unrelated to my previous question, how do you draft an article in your userspace? Rubbish computer 15:22, 20 May 2015 (UTC)
 * You can create in at User:Rubbish computer/article name here. Winner 42 Talk to me!  15:26, 20 May 2015 (UTC)

Thank you. Rubbish computer 15:27, 20 May 2015 (UTC)

photo upload
Hi, I'm confused about which copyright category my jpg belongs to.

It is a photo of Lawrence Pitchko taken in the 1970s. I scanned it from a programme for a concert his was performing in Europe at the time Rayneet (talk) 15:32, 20 May 2015 (UTC)


 * The image is almost certainly subject to copyright and inappropriate to be uploaded, unless the subject is dead in which case it may be possible to upload it pursuant to our non-free content criteria.--ukexpat (talk) 15:47, 20 May 2015 (UTC)

History of Moropa High School
Name of School: Moropa High School Postal Address: P.O. Box 132, GOMPIES, 0631 Physical Address: Madisha-Ditoro, Zebediela, Mokopane, 0631 Tel: (015) 662-0114 email: moropa@live.co.za Principal: Mr. M.J. Nambo Mobile: 0825050114 email: nambo@webmail.co.za

The school was built by the community of Madisha-Ditoro in Zebediela, Limpopo Province, RSA (south of the Capital Polokwane). The school was originally started in 1984. It was initially operating from Mmammati Primary School with two teachers, namely Mr. Molepo and Mrs. Mphulo (nee). This is after the community realised that it was growing and needed a higher school nearby for their children.

During 1985, the school got two more teachers, namely Mr. Sediba and Mr. Kekana. During 1986, the community built one maiden block of three classrooms and the pupils and their four teachers were relocated from Mmammati Primary School to the new building at the western outskirts of the village, next to the Gompies River (its current location). Another block was added in 1987 to cater for the then Form 1 upto Form 3, modern day Grade 8 to 10.

The name of the school was given in honour of a great community leader named Moropa Madisha, who helped many community members to settle peacefully in the village under the old apartheid regime of bantustans (black African homelands). Ditoro is the grandfather of Fika Madisha, who is well-known in the village, hence the village being named Madish-Ditoro.

— Preceding unsigned comment added by 197.76.131.245 (talk) 03:47, 20 May 2015 (UTC)


 * Hello, . This is not the place to present a draft article. If you want to create an article about your school, please read WP:Your first article. Pay particular attention to notability: while this is less strongly applied for high schools than for many subjects, it remains the fact that every single piece of information in a Wikipedia article should be cited to a reliable published source. Before even thinking of writing an article about it, you need to find where other people, unconnected with the school, have already written about it, because that is what you must use for the basis of the article. --ColinFine (talk) 17:05, 20 May 2015 (UTC)


 * The OP came to the Help Desk on 18 May and asked how to create an article on the school. The advice given was first to create a registered account, and then to use the WP:Article Wizard to create the draft article in draft space, providing references to reliable sources for the information.  Create a registered account, then follow the advice given by User:ColinFine, which is the same as the advice that you were given at the Help Desk.  (Posting the same request at two different pages, after ignoring the advice at the first, often results in one's edits and requests also being ignored.)  Robert McClenon (talk) 18:01, 20 May 2015 (UTC)

Can someone see my first article and let me know the changes i need to make to conform to the Wikipedia guidelines
Dear friends at Teahouse, I have created my first article i.e, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAATH_Charitable_Trust Unfortunately i have got the following message https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Saath123#Welcome.21

I obviously don't want this article to be removed. Can someone tell me what the changes i can make on my article so that it survives!

Cheers! saath123Saath123 (talk) 08:44, 20 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Hi, Welcome to Teahouse. You wrote article nice, but it lacks sources. You should attach atleast 1-3 sources that mentions work of this organization. That organization is from Gujarat, India. Then if not The Times of India, Indian Express or Hindustan Times then atleast you have to mention some leading Gujarati newspapers mentioning work of this organization. Second Big mistake you done is your user name and organization name is same, it means that it is your own organization, and people will think that you just want to promote it. Promotion is against policy of Wikipedia. Read WP:Promotion. You can write article on your organization, but you have to provide some reliable sources regarding notability of your organization. Read WP:Notability.-- Human 3015  Say Hey!!  • 11:10, 20 May 2015 (UTC)


 * I have to disagree a little with : you need sources which do more than just mention the work of the organisation. You need two or three substantial pieces about the organisation, written by people who have no connection with it, and published in reliable sources such as those Human3015 mentions. If at least two people unconnected with the organisation have not written about it, then it is not at present notable, and Wikipedia will not accept an article about it, however that article is written. --ColinFine (talk) 16:56, 20 May 2015 (UTC)
 * , now no use of replying him, he has been already blocked for indefinite time for using promotional username. Thats why I already said him that he done "Big Mistake". Hope he will learn from this experience. -- Human 3015  Say Hey!! • 17:12, 20 May 2015 (UTC)
 * There should be a link in the notability tag showing what you need to do, and the message from the user is very helpful. I've added the copy edit tag to your article, and I'm happy to do some research and add sources for you later. KieranTribe (talk) 11:11, 20 May 2015 (UTC)
 * The article was deleted as a copyright violation. Robert McClenon (talk) 18:06, 20 May 2015 (UTC)

==I just wen't to the page I was told to go to so I could ask the person to bring my page back. It did not work because there was nowhere to ask it. I wan't my page back. Can someone get it back for me??== I just tried to get may page back. I just wen't to the place I was told to go. But you can't ask the person the question about how to get it back. Can anyone help me get my page back?? Donovan delaney (talk) 19:10, 20 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Hello . Go to User talk:Chrislk02, click the "new section" link, and make your request there. Cullen328  Let's discuss it  19:17, 20 May 2015 (UTC)

my page Donovan delaney/sandbox/the Corpse Bride Video Game has been deleted again. I don't won't to start all over again. Is it still on here?? and can you find it??
My page User:Donovan delaney/sandbox/The Corpse Bride Video Game., has been deleted again. I don't won't to start all over again. Can you find it for me?? Donovan delaney (talk) 18:38, 20 May 2015 (UTC)


 * Apparently it was deleted by under WP:CSD, blatant violation of WP:NOTWEBHOST. You'll have to ask them if you want the page restored. Joseph2302 (talk) 18:41, 20 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Let me look into it and I will get back to you. Chris  lk02  Chris Kreider 19:14, 20 May 2015 (UTC)

, per the first line which reads "The Corpse Bride Video Game is a fake game based on Tim Burten's Corpse Bride.", and the length of the content (at least 2 pages), this content is not encyclopedic in any way, and there is no way that having it available on Wikipedia can be rationalized (see WP:NOTMADEUP). What I am going to do is undelete the page, and blank it. You have a day or so to get the content from the revision I will link below, after which I will delete it again. (Here is the link ). (Please note, you cannot host this there, please move it into word or notepad on your local machine until you find a more appropriate place for it) Chris  lk02  Chris Kreider 19:24, 20 May 2015 (UTC)

What if I want to cite a source that is not online?
I understand how to cite online sources. How do I cite a source that is not online like a magazine? Thanks in advance! Alex Buxton (talk) 20:47, 20 May 2015 (UTC)


 * Hi Alex Buxton, use cite magazine, there are cite templates for a wide variety of source types. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 20:59, 20 May 2015 (UTC)
 * (ec)Hello u|Alex Buxton, welcome to Teahouse. You can "cite book" or "cite journal" . You can post this way. As long as other editors don't have any problem regarding verifiability of your info then mostly no one will object it. If your edits are controversial then people may object. (All this is according to my knowledge)-- Human 3015  Say Hey!! • 21:04, 20 May 2015 (UTC)
 * If the edits are controversial the person questioning them can always go to WP:RX and hopefully someone will investigate. I did it myself once when I had access to the source.— Vchimpanzee  •  talk  •  contributions  •  21:12, 20 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Hey Alex. To sum up, you cite it just like you would a source that is online, but don't provide a URL (and you would not of course, use the template cite web). You can cite manually, but the citation templates, placed between your   tags, are preferred as they provide consistent formatting (they also help remind users of the information a fully-attributed citation should contain). Links to the citation templates User:Human3015 referred to are cite book & cite journal. See more at Citation Style 1, and a beginner's guide at Help:Referencing for beginners with citation templates. On a side note, leave out the accessdate= parameter in these templates when your citation is to a paper source. Best regards--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 21:30, 20 May 2015 (UTC)

Bad things
Hw do i fill in morning when i got up on my bed — Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.79.122.26 (talk) 21:39, 20 May 2015 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry but I've read your question three times and I do not understand what you are asking. Please note that this page is for asking questions about using and editing Wikipedia, not general knowledge questions, as yours *appears* to be. We do have a reference desk that is for general knowledge questions, but I'm afraid even there you will have to write out what you mean more clearly. Best regards--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 21:43, 20 May 2015 (UTC)

Can we use non-English newspapers as source?
There are many issues which are covered by non-English news papers in detail than English. For Example, The Times of India is reliable English source, it is largest selling English daily in the world. But same "Times of India" publishes Marathi language version in Maharashtra state(Population=110 million) of India named Maharashtra Times, also it has Hindi language version Navbharat Times. Times of India will not cover every important issue of Maharashtra state as it is a national level newspaper but Maharashtra Times will cover every detail of work relating to Government of Maharashtra or Biographies of people related to Maharashtra which can be very useful for readers. (Marathi language is also 16th most spoken language in the world). We can write it on Marathi Wikipedia, but as we translate articles from English Wikipedia to Marathi Wikipedia based on English language sources, then why we can't translate Marathi language articles to English based on Marathi language sources?  Human 3015  talk • 06:26, 19 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Welcome to the Teahouse,, and thank you for your excellent question. The English Wikipedia is the free encylopedia of the entire world and universe. It is not the encyclopedia of the English speaking world. Reliable sources in other languages are perfectly acceptable, for topics where English language sources are lacking. So, when building an article on any given topic, English language sources are preferred if sources in many languages are ample. But if high-quality reliable sources are limited to those in other languages, those sources are perfectly acceptable as long as the resulting article otherwise complies with our policies and guidelines. Be sure that the sources are of high quality, and are cited properly. Cullen328  Let's discuss it  06:38, 19 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your nice guidance. Nice to know that we can use non-English newspapers as source. -- Human 3015  talk  • 07:49, 19 May 2015 (UTC)
 * One thing to add is that if you are citing a source that isn't in English, it is helpful to English readers to provide a short translation of the relevant portion of the text (no more than a sentence or so). For example  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ahecht (talk • contribs) 06:19, 20 May 2015 (UTC+9)
 * Not sure if the OP knows but there are several on-line translators available e.g. google - some of these are very good. DrChrissy (talk) 21:36, 19 May 2015 (UTC)
 * @User:DrChrissy, sorry but Google translate is nowhere near the required quality for Wiki-work. In fact, machine translation technology as a whole is still far from being an acceptable substitute for a competent multilingual human, thus machine translations are definitely deprecated. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 21:48, 20 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Hi . I suggest a slight tweak be made to the template markup suggested above by . I think it would be better to use script-title for the Maharathi text and title for a romanized version of that text. See Template:Cite web for more specific details on how to do this. - Marchjuly (talk) 04:13, 20 May 2015 (UTC)

Copyright status of an image
I uploaded an image of William B. Strang Jr, which was taken from the Johnson County Museum's webpage. I am not sure who whould have copyright on this 100 year old image or where I make the copyright status known.Art davis (talk) 23:09, 20 May 2015 (UTC)
 * If the image is 100 years old, then it is in the public domain. Does the museum's web site specify when it was taken, so that you can state that it is in the public domain?  Robert McClenon (talk) 23:41, 20 May 2015 (UTC)
 * It is true that most (U.S.) images you come across are in the public domain if 100 years old, but this is not always the case. If published before January 1, 1924 they are indeed public domain; if published after that date (or never), then a series of other factors comes into play. A very useful chart can be found here.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 00:21, 21 May 2015 (UTC)

Can't find answer
I received an email to say that there was a message from John from Idegon but I cannot find it anywhere. Can you please help. Thank you. Maplepond (talk) 04:56, 19 May 2015 (UTC)
 * I posted what us known as a talkback template on your talk page (User talk:Maplepond) to let you know I'd replied to your earlier question here. Until you respond to the question I posed there,  I have no interest in helping you further. John from Idegon (talk) 05:36, 19 May 2015 (UTC)
 * HERE Click it. It might help you more than that reply above mine... Consider at least pointing them in the right direction next time. EoRdE6(Come Talk to Me!) 05:56, 19 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Your original question and the replies to it have now been archived here. If had left the section name on his talkback, you may have found it before it was archived. The question that John from Idegon refers to above is “what is your connection to the company you are writing about?” Perhaps he suspects you have a conflict of interest on the company. —teb728 t c 08:00, 19 May 2015 (UTC)

I work for ClearView, the company that I am trying to create the entry for. I am the marketing manager at ClearView. As mentioned before, someone unknown to the company, created an entry on Wiki for ClearView that was not factually correct. I am just trying to get factual information approved. Thank you. Maplepond (talk) 08:29, 19 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Please read Conflict of interest. Since you work for the company (and particularly in marketing the company), you are strongly discouraged from writing about it on Wikipedia. Also if as you say there is already an article about the company, a second article would not be accepted; any changes would be in the original article. Although you should not edit the article yourself, please feel free to request changes on the article talk page. —teb728 t c 09:06, 19 May 2015 (UTC)


 * I cannot find the existing article, only a disam page at Clearview.--ukexpat (talk) 12:34, 19 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Probably ClearView: According to its second AfD, it was about an Australian company, like Maplepond’s draft. if the previous article has been deleted, there is no need to correct the information in it. And not all companies are notable enough for an article in an encyclopedia. —teb728 t c 18:39, 19 May 2015 (UTC)

Thank you for this advice. I was not aware of this criteria. I would like to request the original article be amended. Is it possible to provide access to it and for me to provide corrected/updated information? Also could you please advise how a similar company in Australia, AMP, has a Wiki page? My assumption was they created it themselves? Here is the link. This company is very similar to ClearView. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMP_Limited thank you for your continued assistance. Maplepond (talk) 22:05, 19 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Hi Maplepond. I'll try and answer your question about similar articles. There are lots of articles that have been added to Wikipedia over the years: some very good and some very bad. Ideally, the bad ones are eventually discovered and improved if possible or deleted when they cannot be fixed. The reality of the situation, however, is that Wikipedia editors are all volunteers with limited time and energy, so many bad articles continue to go undetected.
 * Your draft is being judged based upon its own merits and whether it satisfies the notability criteria laid out in WP:ORG. The fact that other stuff such as the AMP article exists is not really relevant and does not automatically mean that your company should have a Wikipedia article. You need to establish that your company has received significant coverage in multiple independent reliable sources (not trivial coverage or passing mentions or coverage in primary sources). Wikipedia notability is not something that we can create or add through editing. It's not something that can be inherited from others.
 * Often copying the format of similar articles, especially really good ones such as featured articles or good articles, can be helpful when creating an article, but we cannot copy the notability of its subject. I don't mean to discourage you, but there are many things that Wikipedia is not and it looks, at least at the present, that your company does not satisfy Wikipedia's notability criteria. -Marchjuly (talk) 02:50, 20 May 2015 (UTC)

Just for clairty, all I did in the firt instance was amend the original entry which someone must have thought was notable enough to allow it. So, still not sure why I can't get my updated version approved? Thanks. Maplepond (talk) 22:10, 19 May 2015 (UTC)


 * Hi, . I'm afraid that assumption is wrong. There are many articles which were created by people who didn't know or didn't care about notability, and slipped in "under the radar". I think that is less likely to happen now than in the past, because there are many people patrolling new pages; but it certainly used to happen, often. --ColinFine (talk) 16:35, 20 May 2015 (UTC)
 * @ColinFine Sadly, since I spend quite a bit of time looking at Special:NewPages, I would say the problem is as bad as it's ever been and may be worse. The business world has discovered Wikipedia to an extent we didn't see in other years. The reams of spam we see is monumental. Every non-notable business in the world wants a Wikipedia page, and every notable business too, and we can't keep up – to a large degree because we hamstrung ourselves. The culture of talking about COI – discouraging it " it is permissible but we strongly suggest discourage it" ) – with no prohibition or even enforcement mechanism with teeth for self-interest promotion but use of G11 (easily foiled by anyone sophisticated) is sinking us; we are bailing but we can't keep up. I hate to see what we are becoming. --Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 02:01, 21 May 2015 (UTC)

Is it acceptable to use a URL from archive.org for a reference?
If a specific webpage no longer exists but there is an older version of that page at archive.org, are we allowed to use the URL link from archive.org (showing the older page version) in a reference? Lupine453 (talk) 22:11, 20 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Simply put, yes – if and only if the underlying source would have been acceptable as a reference, were it available. Best regards--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 22:40, 20 May 2015 (UTC)


 * Thank you Fuhghettaboutit Lupine453 (talk) 23:17, 20 May 2015 (UTC)
 * You're welcome.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 12:27, 21 May 2015 (UTC)

What oversight prevents veteran editors from misbehaving?
If these editors treated all articles the way they treat this one, you would try to add NPOV RS content to an article about elephants, and they would revert you and call you a single purpose account POV pusher. And you would say, "What??!!" They would delete blocks of relevant RS content, you would revert based on WP:PRESERVE suggesting we discuss before deleting, and they would immediately rerevert and again call you a single purpose account and POV pusher and they'd go on to say how ridiculous elephants are and how anyone who tries to expand the article with encyclopedic content must be working for the elephants. These are veteran editors behaving this way. Where is the oversight? Which dispute resolution process is meant to resolve this? Thanks for listening. :-( OnlyInYourMind T  11:00, 21 May 2015 (UTC)


 * You are the overseer, as is everyone else. Handle it within policy at the article on its talk page. You have mechanisms available to you if unable to solve it by discussion. Fiddle   Faddle  11:21, 21 May 2015 (UTC)


 * Indeed, I see you have filed a DRN matter about this. Fiddle   Faddle  11:30, 21 May 2015 (UTC)
 * I also note that you did that before coming here. Please be aware that WP:FORUMSHOPPING is deprecated. Please settle your dispute at the article talk page or the DRN. Bringing it here is not appropriate. 11:34, 21 May 2015 (UTC) Fiddle  Faddle


 * I'm sorry, I didn't think asking for advice would be considered forum shopping. I actually posted here first, but it got archived. DRNs apparently cannot discuss behavior, so I'm asking what resolution system is best for when all content is constantly disputed irrationally (even a tag to expand a 100 word film synopsis). I do not intend to forum shop while the DRN is active. Although the DRN result is quickly becoming irrelevant because the veteran editors have now also removed the content that was the context for the dispute. It's easy to look the other way when elephants are discredited and almost universally disliked, but that should not be license to mistreat other editors and corrupt article content. It's the behavior. This behavior is something all wikipedians should care about. OnlyInYourMind T  12:45, 21 May 2015 (UTC)


 * Well, you have the advice. You will find that rants that fail to assume good faith also fail to attract the help you expect that you deserve. This is a content dispute, not a behaviour issue. You can make it a behaviour issue if you choose to. If you place Helpme on your talk page and ask for help someone will come along and guide your hand. Note that everyone's behaviour in a behaviour dispute is under scrutiny. Starting one is no guarantee of immunity. Fiddle   Faddle  13:14, 21 May 2015 (UTC)
 * okay, I'll take it to my talk page with help me. Thanks. OnlyInYourMind T  16:38, 21 May 2015 (UTC)


 * I have found, at the Help Desk, that one should be wary when an editor asks a question that is posed hypothetically, because it never is a hypothetical question, and the editor posing the question is usually providing a biased description, specifically in order to get the answer that they want, and to use that answer to wikilawyer in the actual case. This isn't about elephants.  It is about Zeitgeist (film series).  Zeitgeist is already being discussed at the dispute resolution noticeboard, apparently successfully.  If you don't think that the moderated discussion is successful, address your concerns at DRN to the moderator.  If moderated discussion fails, the moderator will provide advice as to what to do next.  You say that you do not intend to forum shop while the DRN is active, but asking for advice here, rather than at DRN, is forum shopping.  If you really think that there is a conduct issue, raise it at DRN, because discussing the same issue in two or more places seldom works well.  Robert McClenon (talk) 16:50, 21 May 2015 (UTC)
 * No. Don't take it to your talk page with the HelpMe template.  Raise it at DRN.  Robert McClenon (talk) 16:51, 21 May 2015 (UTC)
 * WP:BOOMERANG usually takes effect very soon after such an editor finds out how to raise it as a behavioural issue. It is, of course, not one. It is just a discussion not going their way at DRN, and is a content issue, plain and simple. I suggest we wait and watch with interest. There is, of course, the thought that whoever responds to my suggested helpme template will have the good sense to advise them politely where to go. Fiddle   Faddle  16:56, 21 May 2015 (UTC)

definition of third worls countries
what is the definition of third world countries and how they differ from superpowers define crieteria

2601:6C5:201:C4D0:6126:C4A2:3C0E:16A9 (talk) 13:16, 21 May 2015 (UTC)


 * This sounds like a homework question. Please note that we will not do your homework for you. In any event, see developing country.--ukexpat (talk) 14:15, 21 May 2015 (UTC)
 * I agree, that merely looks like a homework. We cannot answer your homework for the sake of your understanding, please, you may only ask questions regarding about Wikipedia and other related topics. You can try searching the specific subject in the search bar above. CryOceD (talk) 14:57, 21 May 2015 (UTC)
 * hello and welcome to The Teahouse. If you have made a genuine attempt to find the information, which might include the search bar above, try the reference desk.— Vchimpanzee  •  talk  •  contributions  •  21:43, 21 May 2015 (UTC)

How to deal with admin abusing his/her powers?
The reason I am asking this is that some of my edits have been overwritten by certain W admin who removes all positive references and supporting research and leaves only negative information about the subject. Considering that the ratio of positive research/references to negative is 10 to 1, his actions are at least questionable. Yet, being new to Wikipedia, I don't really know how to deal with such situation, it is obviously pointless to go into editing wars with admins...Wiki-shield (talk) 22:46, 21 May 2015 (UTC)


 * To anyone giving an answer to this you will want to see this thread Administrators' noticeboard/Archive272 for some background info. MarnetteD&#124;Talk 22:52, 21 May 2015 (UTC)

How can i create a wikipedia page
Good morning everyone at Teahouse. I would be grateful if someone of you could provide me some useful information.I'm interested in creating an account and additionally create a new page,but i can't find the steps that i have to follow in order to do it. Moreover, am i able to write some private details in my page about myself (e.g educational background, work experience,etc), or it is forbidden by Wikipedia policy?

Thank you in advance.Aidanika (talk) 10:48, 20 May 2015 (UTC)
 * See WP:Your first article. Everymorning   talk  11:16, 20 May 2015 (UTC)

So you might want to mention which languages you speak, or what your special interests are, because it can be useful for other editors to know this, if, for example, they need help with translating. However, your education and/or work experience are not relevant to your editing. For more detail please see User pages - in particular, for what is generally allowed see WP:UPYES and for what is generally not allowed see WP:UPNO - Arjayay (talk) 11:28, 20 May 2015 (UTC)
 * To answer your second question - user pages are NOT the place to post your CV/resume "your user page is not a personal website. Your user page is about you as a Wikipedian, and pages in your user space should be used as part of your efforts to contribute to the project."
 * hello and welcome to The Teahouse. says "your education and/or work experience are not relevant to your editing" but that's not entirely true. What you know about can be helpful to others if your knowledge helps you to understand how to do research and evaluate sources for articles that relate to your experiences.—  Vchimpanzee  •  talk  •  contributions  •  20:18, 20 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Hello, Aidanika, and welcome. Everybody here is glad to see you, and we'll be watching to see what you put on your WP:User page. Just look around at other folks' pages and you can see the wide variety of our very diverse group of editors. Good luck! BeenAroundAWhile (talk) 23:17, 21 May 2015 (UTC)

What is the difference between External Links and References?
I completely understand why the References section is needed and that its used to backup the information that is represented on a certain page or article. However, I noticed that many articles have a lot of external links, which lead to a homepage, which adds no value to the page/article and don't support the information that page has.

My question is how can you determine whether to add/have an external link on a page/article - do they have to add value? and what are the main purpose of them in comparison to references? (I guess thats two questions!!)

Thank you Kingoptimizer (talk) 07:03, 20 May 2015 (UTC)
 * I think you have pretty much answered your own questions but to expand a bit. References are there to ensure that readers can check for themselves that what they are reading on Wikipedia is not just made up.  That's why it is preferred that material is backed up by verifiable information from reliable sources that are (normally) independent of the article subject.
 * Also allowed are external links which do not in themselves support information in the article but they need to conform to the guidelines found at WP:External links. In the main the number of external links should be kept to a minimum and they do need to add value which is why, for example, lists of all a subjects social media outlets are not encouraged but perhaps a link to the subject's official web site would be considered acceptable. Also acceptable are links which do add information to the article but are too voluminous to be used as references.  An example might be a website that records every performance by an athelete where the Wikipedia article has only summarised their career and highlighted notable preformances.
 * External links are one of those areas that are commonly misused and numerous links added which don't conform to the guidelines by people who misunderstand the purpose of Wikipedia which is to be an encyclopedia and not a promotional tool for the article subjects. Nthep (talk) 09:11, 20 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Thank you Nthep for the detailed explanation. It makes more sense now. Kingoptimizer (talk) 17:47, 20 May 2015 (UTC)


 * Nice to see you, Kingoptimizer. Please come back and chat with us again. BeenAroundAWhile (talk) 23:22, 21 May 2015 (UTC)

Help getting an article reviwed
Hello! I have been working on a article for weeks, getting it reviewed, recieving feedback and making the edits and now I can't get anyone to look at it. I have reached out twice to the reviewer that worked on it and have heard nothing. Anything else I can do?

Thx SusanChana (talk) 02:00, 22 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Welcome to the Teahouse, . "Anything" includes asking here. The quality of the sourcing in your draft article is very weak. A routine Bloomberg catalog listing plus some local coverage about a tax incentive is "really" weak. What is the best you have to offer with your sources? Significant coverage in reliable sources is golden here on Wikipedia. If your sources remain weak, then experienced editors are reluctant to waste more than a minute looking at your draft. I gave you ten minutes. Cullen<sup style="color:#707">328  Let's discuss it  04:39, 22 May 2015 (UTC)

BnF inline template
I have an id number for an item in the France national library (BnF No. FRBNF36688567g). What is the Wiki inline template that I can use to link this id number? When a reader clicks on the link, it will automatically go to the France national library and look up the item.

I would like an inline template similar to the "asin" template that uses an Amazon id number to automatically look up an item on Amazon. I am not interested in the authority control templates (because they are not inline).

Thanks for your assistance. Knife-in-the-drawer (talk) 05:15, 22 May 2015 (UTC)
 * It sounds to me like you want to embed a link to external website into the body of a Wikipedia article. I don't believe this way of linking is acceptable any more on Wikipedia per WP:CS. I think you can add such links to the external links section if they satisfy the criteria listed at WP:ELYES, but if you want add the link in-line then I think you are supposed to use a footnote instead. - Marchjuly (talk) 06:33, 22 May 2015 (UTC)

confusing way to get around Wikipedia
Group:

Somehow, somewhere I saw a response from Plasmic Physic to a request for a reference and he seems to have made it, but cannot find it again or find how to find his talk page if that is how one does it. This is the worst website I've ever worked with in either trying to find your way around or trying to make corrections to typing. I just went through 3 or 4 periods of waiting 30 seconds to a minute for the focus to come back to the posting page. I know this will be a major insult, but what grade school people does Wikipedia use to run this website? Chem4EngrChem4Engr (talk) 11:15, 22 May 2015 (UTC)


 * Hi Chem4Engr, at the top right of all pages is a link saying "Contributions". Click it to see edits you have made. Click the little arrow "→‎" to go directly to the section User talk:Plasmic Physics. See more at Help:User contributions. Posts are either answered where you made them or on your own talk page, linked on "Talk" at the top of all pages. Wikipedia is the sixth most visited website but runs on a modest budget because advertisements are not allowed. Some things can be slow due to limited resources. PrimeHunter (talk) 12:13, 22 May 2015 (UTC)


 * Picking up on one part of the original question 'corrections to typing'; is there an undo facility when pasting or typing in an edit has gone wrong? SovalValtos (talk) 12:19, 22 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Before clicking on Save page the keyboard combo of Ctrl-Z should undo. Cheers JoeHebda (talk) 13:30, 22 May 2015 (UTC)


 * (e/c x2) At the top of this page or any page you will see a permanent link labeled "contributions". Those are your contributions. Clicking that will show you every page you've edited (that's not hidden or deleted) with a link to it and lots of other information and navigation abilities. You will find there that you edited that user's talk page and can click on it to visit it again. Every user has a talk page, and that will always be at "user talk:name", so you could always type that into the search field, i.e., <tt>User talk:Plasmic Physics</tt>. Every page also has a page history. So since you knew from your post the other day that User:Plasma Physics was recommended to you because they were a major contributor to Methyl radical, you could have gone there, clicked history at the top and navigated to the talk page of every user whose contributions are linked there. Also, since you knew that you had made your prior request at this page, and were provided a link in the response to that user's talk page, you could have searched this page for the prior thread, which is still there. If you know how to use your browser's basic find function it would take literally 2-3 seconds to find the prior post by finding your name on this page, or "plasma physics" or " Methyl". What I'm saying with all this is that there are numerous easy ways to have found the post and your being stymied and impression that it's all very complex and difficult is only a result of being unfamiliar with a new environment.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 12:25, 22 May 2015 (UTC)

Create an article for the IMGA
Hi there!

We want to have a Wikipedia article for our awards, that exist since 2004. There are more than 3000 entries on Wikipedia about the awards but no page at the moment: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Search?search=International+Mobile+Gaming+Awards&go=Go

What would be the best methodology to write this article? Should it be our team (but we don't want it to be considered as promotion) or another writer from Wikipedia community?

Thanks!!!

Anne90.37.1.22 (talk) 13:30, 22 May 2015 (UTC)


 * Hi Anne - welcome to the Teahouse, and thanks for asking! To put it simply, no, people shouldn't be directly writing about themselves or the companies they work for. That's considered having a conflict of interest, and it's very difficult to write on a subject neutrally - even with good intention. Ideally, if the subject is notable enough, someone not affiliated with the subject will write on it. What I do recommend doing is creating a draft of the article, which will let you prepare the article and submit it for review when you think it's ready. An editor will swing by and review it, and either approve the article or let you know why they're rejecting it. Your draft could be located at Draft:International Mobile Gaming Awards. If you'd like, the Article Wizard will guide you through the process of preparing for writing an entry, and will let you create a draft at the end. Your first article is also a nice resource for getting started. Keep in mind that article subjects on Wikipedia require significant coverage from a variety of independent and reliable sources, which should be used to get information to write your article with - this lets readers verify information and shows that the subject is notable (or "significant") enough for an article. I also recommend creating an account, which will let editors more easily find and communicate with you. Hope this helps. ~ Super  Hamster  Talk Contribs 14:14, 22 May 2015 (UTC)

my page keeps geting deleted. How do make it stop??
My page: Donovan deleney/sandbox/the Corpse Bride Video Game, was deleted by Jeraphine Gryphon. Can you or someone get my page back?? how do I block people and make sure it never happens again??Donovan delaney (talk) 06:09, 21 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Welcome to the Teahouse, . If you want to be sure that your contributions are not deleted, then be 100% certain that they improve the encyclopedia. Be prepared to explain how your edits comply with our most important policies and guidelines, and then we can have a conversation. Details are more persuasive than outrage. <b style="color:#070">Cullen</b><sup style="color:#707">328  Let's discuss it  06:16, 21 May 2015 (UTC)
 * User:Donovan delaney/sandbox/The Corpse Bride Video Game. is the page in question. Was U5'ed. EoRdE6(Come Talk to Me!) 06:27, 21 May 2015 (UTC)
 * I am well aware of all that,, and was gently trying to point the new editor in the right direction. <b style="color:#070">Cullen</b><sup style="color:#707">328  Let's discuss it  06:35, 21 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Just I checking, I was not so well aware of that and your answer seemed to skirt around the reason... EoRdE6(Come Talk to Me!) 06:39, 21 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Oh and might help reading EoRdE6(Come Talk to Me!) 06:29, 21 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Apparently this topic has already been answered by, for the following reason: @Donovan delaney:, per the first line which reads "The Corpse Bride Video Game is a fake game based on Tim Burten's Corpse Bride.", and the length of the content (at least 2 pages), this content is not encyclopedic in any way, and there is no way that having it available on Wikipedia can be rationalized (see WP:NOTMADEUP). CryOceD (talk) 9:55, 21 May 2015 (UTC)


 * FYI - see WP:WikiProject Articles for creation/Help desk where this same issue has come up. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 09:50, 21 May 2015 (UTC)
 * , I don't know your article but I will tell you in general. There are many articles on Wikipedia which have just 3-4 lines still they have survived on Wikipedia just because of their WP:Notability and 1-2 reliable sources. You should also know style of writing, for that you should read 9-10 featured or good articles related to your topic. If your topic is games then read some standard articles on games on Wikipedia, you will get idea that how long should be the lead, what to mention in lead, what should be the other relevant sections etc. But you must have reliable sources attached to it. Such articles usually don't get deleted.  Human 3015  Say Hey!! • 10:13, 21 May 2015 (UTC)
 * @User:Human3015 the stuff he keeps posting specifically and definitively violates WP:MADEUP. Please investigate the issue a bit before giving wrong advice that inadvertently encourages misbehaviour. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 10:26, 21 May 2015 (UTC)

So this is about a made-up game, admin deleted it, then restored it on request, telling them to save it, and get it off Wikipedia. They ignored this request, so it appears to have been deleted again. WP:NOTAWEBHOST Joseph2302 (talk) 11:59, 21 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Indeed, looking at the deleted content, the answer to the headlined question is: you don't; this material has no place here and was properly deleted.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 12:26, 21 May 2015 (UTC)


 * May I suggest we continue on the editor's own talk page. I've left them what may be descried as a hint there. Fiddle   Faddle  12:36, 21 May 2015 (UTC)


 * I'd suggest he gets a blog account somewhere if it's just made up -- IamM1rv (talk) 14:24, 22 May 2015 (UTC)


 * Just so people know, he got blocked for being unconstructive and legal threats. Joseph2302 (talk) 14:34, 22 May 2015 (UTC)

Info about adding a Company Page to Wikipedia
Hi, my startup company was recently featured in popular science. We have also won grants from the Mass Clean Energy Center as well as from the National Science Foundation. I would like to add these facts and information about the company to a wikipedia page. I thought the best way to do this was through setting up a page for me company, but that was immediately deleted. Any suggestions? Shaunbamforth (talk) 15:06, 22 May 2015 (UTC)
 * What is the name of the company? What is the name of the article that was deleted? Chris  lk02  Chris Kreider 15:11, 22 May 2015 (UTC)

Actually, I found it Loci Controls. Let me look into it, I was the one who deleted it, and based on what you say above, it does seem they would pass wikipedias general notability requirements for inclusion. Chris lk02  Chris Kreider 15:13, 22 May 2015 (UTC)


 * From their talkpage, looks like artcile was Loci Controls, deleted under A7.
 * It's strongly recommended that you don't write about your own company- if you do, please read WP:COI. To show the company is notable, it must have significant, independent coverage from reliable sources- if you think it has this and you want to create an article, I'd recommend using Article Wizard and submitting it for review with the WP:AFC process. Joseph2302 (talk) 15:17, 22 May 2015 (UTC)

I went ahead and created the article. If there is something you would like added to the article, please refrain from doing it yourself if you are an employee or are closely related to the company in question (read WP:COI). You are welcome to post on my talk page User talk:Chrislk02 with any references that contain content to be added, and I will be glad to look it over. Hope this helps. Chris lk02  Chris Kreider 15:38, 22 May 2015 (UTC)


 * I have made the changes for the article on TERI (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Energy_and_Resources_Institute) keeping in mind NPOV and Wikipedia guidelines. I vouch for the authenticity of the sources and have tried to keep the tone of the article as neutral and non-promotional as possible.

Persondata
If a BLP article needs a persondata template, can any editor add the template to the article? Or are only certain editors allowed to do that? Lupine453 (talk) 19:14, 22 May 2015 (UTC)


 * Anyone can add them, Template:Persondata tells you how to do it (although most of it is self-explanatory). Joseph2302 (talk) 19:17, 22 May 2015 (UTC)


 * Thank you Joseph2302 Lupine453 (talk) 19:21, 22 May 2015 (UTC)

How to alert others
When you leave comments, or questions, replies, answers, etc... in various threads, talk pages, etc., what are the right ways to alert the other members? For example, someone has suggested one of my articles be merged into another, and they've created a section on a talk page. A few people have commented there, and I have added a comment.

...Should I do something now, to alert them? Can I? What would you do?

It seems silly (?) to go to each of their personal talk pages and post a "FYI, I responded." ...Right?

Thanks. Justapersona (talk) 19:49, 22 May 2015 (UTC)


 * You can assume that they have not un-watched the page, so they will probably see your response on their watchlist, whenever they check that. If you want to be sure someone is notified then use the ping template. — Jeraphine Gryphon (talk) 19:55, 22 May 2015 (UTC)


 * (edit conflict) There's a few ways, the one I use is, so  to ping me. Joseph2302 (talk) 19:56, 22 May 2015 (UTC)


 * ping! :D — Jeraphine Gryphon (talk) 19:58, 22 May 2015 (UTC)


 * That's cool! Thanks & ! Justapersona (talk) 20:11, 22 May 2015 (UTC)

Can I delete a redirect to a draft article, after the article is submitted.
Once I submit an article for review, the article is no longer in my sandbox, it goes someplace else and I get a (redirect to that draft article) in my sandbox. I moved redirect to my user-page but it doesn't even need to be there, I can access it through contributions. Can I delete, remove it and still access it through contributions? Bobmodikiw (talk) 18:33, 22 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Hi Bobmodikiw, yes there is no need to keep the redirect or wink link, unless you want to as..... it's your user-space. Cheers KylieTastic (talk) 18:44, 22 May 2015 (UTC)


 * Also, if you want to clean your sandbox truly so that your next effort there has no artifacts in its history, you can ask for deletion (and then recreate the sandbox for the next use). Just place db-u1 or db-userreq at the top. However, you don't actually need to use a sandbox called "sandbox". You can create an unlimited number of them in your user or user talk space using an intuitive title. For example, if you were going to write about "Whozeewatsit", you could create a sandbox draft at User:Bobmodikiw/Whozeewatsit or User talk:Bobmodikiw/Whozeewatsit. Best regards--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 20:33, 22 May 2015 (UTC)

After adding persondata
There is a parameter in the WP:Biography template on the article's talk page that reads: "|needs-persondata = yes"

Once you've added the persondata, do you remove that whole parameter, or do you just remove the word "yes"? Or do you put the word "no"? Lupine453 (talk) 21:15, 22 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Hey Lupine453. According to the template's documentation, you just "remove this line". Best regards--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 21:45, 22 May 2015 (UTC)


 * Thanks Fuhghettaboutit Lupine453 (talk) 21:52, 22 May 2015 (UTC)

pictures
I'm new to the process and I understand that we have access to a library of free pictures. Where do I access the pictures?

Hbazarte Hbazarte (talk) 19:07, 21 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Hey Hbazarte. It's called the Wikimedia Commons. It hosts almost 26 million putatively free media files that can be used here. Images and other types of media files hosted there can be used her natively, using our normal file markup. Best regards--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 19:19, 21 May 2015 (UTC)


 * Welcome to the Teahouse, . You can also search all the images that are available on wikipedia itself in addition to searching Wikimedia Commons. click here and you will be taken to a google website set up to search for the copyright "safe" images available in Wikipedia.  In the url box at the top of the browser window, type in a word or two describing the image you are looking for-but type the name of the image in-between the set of quotation marks, and then hit the search button.  Let me know if this worked or if I didn't describe the process in enough detail.  What image are you looking for?
 * <span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva;background:#E6E6FA;border:solid 1px;border-radius:7px;box-shadow:darkgray 0px 3px 3px;"> Bfpage &#124;leave a message 21:55, 22 May 2015 (UTC)

Expanding stubs and removing stub status
Hi, kind Teahouse hosts! I've been expanding the page Whiskeytown, California, which is listed as a stub. I fleshed it out considerably, adding a history and present day section. I'm thinking it's not so much a stub anymore. It's still rather short, but it's an article on a ghost town, so I'm not sure it needs to be any longer than the brief history. But I'm wondering if I should remove the stub classification? Or ask another editor to review it first, since I did most of the writing for the article? And if so, who should I ask? Thank you for your help, Teahouse! Fuzchia (talk) 16:57, 22 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Welcome to the Teahouse, . I upgraded it to start class. Whenever you expand a stub, you can do the same. The template is at the top of the article's talk page. Just change stub to start. <b style="color:#070">Cullen</b><sup style="color:#707">328  Let's discuss it  21:12, 22 May 2015 (UTC)


 * Hey Fuzchia. There are actually two meanings your reference to stub classification could have referred to. Cullen328 addressed one of them. I addressed another by removing the stub tag in the article. Nice job expanding it!--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 21:58, 22 May 2015 (UTC)


 * Thank you both for your assistance! I'll keep that in mind when editing stubs in the future. Fuzchia (talk) 22:00, 22 May 2015 (UTC)