Wikipedia:Teahouse/Questions/Archive 704

How do I discuss revisions with another editor?
I unintentionally entered into an edit war. It would have been much better had we been able to converse via Wikipedia about the article. How can I do this? Thanks, Seek Of Truth Seeker of truth 2015 (talk) 22:06, 22 December 2017 (UTC)
 * , just use the article talk page or the editor's talk page. It might not be too late either. White Arabian Filly  Neigh 22:09, 22 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Add: I looked at your edits and they are to a very contentious topic and did not have sources. You can edit controversial stuff, but many people who spend a lot of time doing so end up getting mad and quitting. The same thing with any topic that has political overtones, people are going to have opinions and they're going to argue about how something should be covered on Wikipedia. I'm not trying to dissuade you, but you may also want to do some editing on non-controversial articles. Just some advice. White Arabian Filly  Neigh 22:17, 22 December 2017 (UTC)

two different works, both referenced separately, same author--getting conflated
I am having difficulty referencing two separate works by the same author--the software keeps getting confused. I attempted to differentiate the name itself in the 'name equals in quotes', but it doesn't seem to have worked. How is this properly done? Jenhawk777 (talk) 08:46, 22 December 2017 (UTC)
 * What are the symptoms of 'the software getting confused'? Can you give a link to the problematic page, or even better: to the problematic change? The latter can be obtained from the page history as a  link at appropriate edit. --CiaPan (talk) 09:17, 22 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Good morning from here where it's morning! Thank you for responding.  Basically the second reference is blank.  The number and space for it is there in the reflist--but there's nothing in the space. What code would I put in to provide a link and where will I find that code?  Do you know if there is a Wiki page that explains how to reference two works/one author?Jenhawk777 (talk) 16:22, 22 December 2017 (UTC)
 * As CiaPan said: "Can you give a link to the problematic page, or even better: to the problematic change?" --David Biddulph (talk) 16:26, 22 December 2017 (UTC)
 * If, by any chance, you were referring to Special:Contributions/Jenhawk777, did you intend  to read  ? Slightly worrying that the software didn't report an undefined ref.  --David Biddulph (talk) 16:34, 22 December 2017 (UTC)


 * If you're talking about User:Jenhawk777/sandbox and the end of the first sentence in the section Human violence and hamas, then I second David – add the dot after 'D' in 'F.D Creach'. --CiaPan (talk) 21:49, 22 December 2017 (UTC)


 * Are you kidding me? All of this because I can't type worth a crap?  I am laughing so hard I will pee myself if I don't get off the computer!  Oy vey! Thank you everyone!  I'm apparently an idiot who should not be allowed out alone!  :-)  Jenhawk777 (talk) 05:33, 23 December 2017 (UTC)

Editors with COI adding List of Accolades for Brands
What can we do if we come across editors who are doing PR for brands and adding promotional content to Wikipedia?

I came across User:Sarah J Y Wong and noticed the user (and her colleagues) and had been editing several Singaporean brands over the years under IP and other usernames such as user:SuSan NLBS50 and user:FirstToaPayohSecondarySchool NLBS50. I have no issues if the content is non-promotional, but she is insisting on adding a list of local achievements and accolades of On Cheong Jewellery to Wikipedia. Are such lists allowed on Wikipedia? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.161.196.133 (talk) 04:16, 22 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Hello, WP:COIN would be the right place to report conflict of interest and promotional editing. I couldn't find a specific guideline, but I do believe that a list of awards and accolades is promotional and shouldn't be added in most cases. Thanks! Darylgolden(talk) Ping when replying 09:50, 23 December 2017 (UTC)

Edit not being reviewed?
Hello All - Merry Christmas! I recently proposed an edit to the Charles Sabine biography page on the relevant talk page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Charles_Sabine It was reviewed and I was told I needed references. I've added a reference, but no one has reviewed the updated page. On the first edit, I saw an indication that editors had X number of edits to review ahead of mine. On the update, I didn't see an indication. Are things just slow over the Christmas period? Have I made an error in the way I've requested the second update? Thanks! PapaPapaya1 (talk) 16:06, 23 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Welcome to the Teahouse, . Your edit request was answered by a volunteer editor in less than 36 hours, which I think is an excellent response time. It can take many weeks, for example, for a draft of a new article to be reviewed by volunteers. Let me offer some friendly advice to you as a paid editor: Do not complain if volunteers take some time to respond to your requests. You are getting paid and we are not. Complaining causes resentment, and you do not want that. Thank you. Cullen328  Let's discuss it  17:48, 23 December 2017 (UTC)

WikEd blocks the keyboard shortcuts on Google Chrome and Firefox.

 * WikEd blocks the keyboard shortcuts  on Google Chrome and Firefox.  Is there a work around? thank you very much in advance! Imaginelenin (talk) 05:50, 19 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Hi . This might be a good question for Wikipedia:Village pump (technical) or even Wikipedia:Reference desk/Computing since the Teahouse tends to focus more on general editing questions than specific technical issues. -- Marchjuly (talk) 07:14, 20 December 2017 (UTC)
 * thank you! Imaginelenin (talk) 19:25, 23 December 2017 (UTC)

Updated file not showing up on page?
I updated a file with a better version, but on the article that it's on, it doesn't change to the correct version. The article is Takoba The Verified Cactus 100% 00:28, 22 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Hello, . When I look at that article and the image, I see a version that was updated at 22:50 on 21 December 2017. If you see the earlier version. you may need to purge your cache. Cullen328  Let's discuss it  01:27, 22 December 2017 (UTC)
 * How do I purge my cache? The Verified Cactus 100% 01:47, 22 December 2017 (UTC)
 * @The Verified Cactus that's a feature of your browser, not of Wikipedia. How to do it depends on which browser you're using, and in some cases which version. Try googling "how to clear the cache in" followed by the name of your browser and (if you know it) the version. That ought to find you some instructions. Neiltonks (talk) 09:16, 22 December 2017 (UTC)
 * I see, thanks! The Verified Cactus 100% 20:21, 23 December 2017 (UTC)
 * There is one more cache: the cache at Wikipedia servers. You can simply just wait a few hours for it to update automatically, or you can invoke it manually. To do that, go to the file page at File:Samata ténue touareg.jpg and click the   tab. This should refresh the image cached by enwiki. If that doesn't help, go to Commons: c:File:Samata ténue touareg.jpg and click the   tab – this should refresh the Commons' cache, which is the source for each of Wikipedias. --CiaPan (talk) 09:26, 22 December 2017 (UTC)

How do I get an article to be semi-protected?
Is there a nomination process? The Verified Cactus 100% 20:18, 23 December 2017 (UTC)
 * requests are made at Requests for page protection. You'll need a valid reason Meters (talk) 20:21, 23 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Got it, thanks The Verified Cactus 100% 20:25, 23 December 2017 (UTC)

Can someone fix this
This article has no sources and has been tagged since 2009 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1983_Israel_bank_stock_crisis can somebody please fix this the writing is inflammatory Flamingoflorida (talk) 05:38, 23 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Welcome to the Teahouse, . You are now the best person in the world to improve this article. Using your Google search skills, find the best sources that describe this 1983 banking crisis. Format those sources into references, according to Referencing for beginners. Rewrite the article, summarizing what those reliable sources say about this banking crisis. The encyclopedia will be better off when you are done. Cullen328  Let's discuss it  07:08, 23 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Actually, whilst you'd normally be absolutely right to say this, I think in this particular instance, might be far from the best person in the world to edit this article. This editor has a conflict of interest on this topic and matters relating to the Renati family, and has been brought to both WP:COIN and now  WP:ANI in recent days. Nick Moyes (talk) 23:59, 23 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Yes, I see that you are right, . My usual inclination is to assume good faith but sometimes evidence emerges that indicates that extra caution is required. Cullen328  Let's discuss it  03:29, 24 December 2017 (UTC)

Can someone give feedback about my article please?
Hello, I've written an article but an editor thought it was autobiographical, so I did some reading at Wikipedia, reedited it and added independent sources as citations. Could someone please review it for me to see if it works now please?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:Alper_Tuzcu

[User:Alpertuzcu] (talk) 20:27, 22 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Hello and welcome to the Teahouse. You state "an editor thought it was autobiographical" but your username is that of the person you wrote the draft about.  Are you Alper Tuzcu?  As to the draft, it is in the review pipeline, please be patient as there are over 2600 drafts waiting for review. 331dot (talk) 20:44, 22 December 2017 (UTC)


 * Hello, thanks so much for writing back! So the content itself is solely made of facts and doesn't have any subjective statements after my latest edits. Yet, I might have missed out, which is why I wanted to double check with you guys. If there is anything that I would need to fix, could you please let me know? It's been in the review for 58 days, so I wouldn't want it to get rejected to wait another 2 months! I appreciate you help and thank you.

talk) 22:49, 22 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Hey,, it was lovely to look through you article whilst listening to your music on Soundcloud. Thank you for that. I relaxed to it and checked all your references, and you'll be pleased to know that you do actually exist, according to Wikipedia's criteria, anyway! The question you have to ask is, do you meet our notability criteria for musicians? (Read it here: WP:NMUSIC) If you can't show evidence that you can meet these criteria today, then console yourself that you're a good musician and that you may well win awards or attract sufficient media attention that you may do later. There are plenty of other platforms for creative people to promote themselves online without trying to get a page on Wikipedia. Of course, if you can meet them today, do put them into your draft, as there's nothing there to show this at the moment . You also need to declare your Conflict of Interest if, as seems apparent, you are the artist trying to write about yourself. This, I'm afraid, is the hardest of all task for anyone trying to create a new article,  and if you're that notable, it's best left for other independent editors to write about you instead. Hope this helps a bit. Regards from the UK, Nick Moyes (talk) 00:37, 23 December 2017 (UTC)


 * Hello and thank you for your feedback! Also I'm glad you enjoyed the music. To answer your question, yes I do fulfill Wikipedia's criteria for notable musicians, specifically:

'Has been the subject of multiple, non-trivial, published works appearing in sources that are reliable, not self-published, and are independent of the musician or ensemble itself.'

I have cited articles and interviews in the article featuring national newspapers Agos and Radikal (Turkey) and Sunday Times (Sri Lanka) in my references, and I have more that I can provide to you if you wish (they don't have online links but I can provide the scans of newspaper articles). I kindly invite you to check these newspapers and their reliability, because just because you might not have heard of them, or that you live in a different country would not make them less reliable.

To reiterate, the information in my article can be verified from these independent publications and if an editor were to write an article, there would be nothing different because the article I wrote just has facts and no subjective lines as to my knowledge. But, again, we are all humans and I might have missed out something so I would appreciate if you could let me know if there is any part in the article that needs to be fixed.

I would be happy to declare a conflict of interest if you can please guide me how to do so.

Thank you for your help and have a nice weekend!

Alpertuzcu (talk) 04:04, 24 December 2017 (UTC)
 * To declare a conflict of interest, simply make a statement about it on your user page. Details about this can be found at WP:COI.  I would again ask you if you are Alper Tuzcu.  If you are only a representative of Alper Tuzcu, you will need to change your username by following the instructions at WP:CHU.  If you are a representative you will also need to declare as a paid editor per WP:PAID. 331dot (talk) 05:13, 24 December 2017 (UTC)

Ettiquette For Requesting A Copy Of A Deleted Page
Per the Help Desk request at 'https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Help_desk#Blockfolio_page_"speedy_deleted"_but_how_can_I_modify_what_I_first_wrote?_Can't_find_history._Please_advise.' a copy of the deleted content would be expected; is there some reason it would not be forthcoming (even if only to the original author himself)? Further, the author had his account deleted by the editor who marked the article for deletion; is the fact of the same considered fair/standard practice for Wikipedia these days? idfubar (talk) 09:31, 24 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Hello again, . Your question has been asked and answered at several other locations, and you are unlikely to get a different answer no matter where you ask. The deleted article was completely unacceptable and there is no reason to restore it in any form. Please get the message. We do not restore content that is 100% inappropriate for the encyclopedia. Instead, please write content that is in full compliance with our policies and guidelines. Persisting in this campaign may be seen as disruptive editing, which may lead to a block. Please stop now. <b style="color:#070">Cullen</b><sup style="color:#707">328  Let's discuss it  09:50, 24 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Mmmmm... change of seasons, change of host... but only one of two questions answered? (Talk to you later?) idfubar (talk) 09:58, 24 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Er, sorry, "blocked" (not "deleted"); incidentally, per the ( deleting editor's reply) the matter appears to be addressed, for now (though no explanation - of how openly expressing suspicion, via unsubstantiated allegation a la a "corporate we" being the source of the article WP:PA, is behavior becoming or otherwise correctly expected of a Wikipedia editor - has been provided; does that need to be reported?)...idfubar (talk) 11:19, 24 December 2017 (UTC)

Rape of the Sabine Women
Hello my name is Mark my username is jdamsforall, I have written two edits to Wikipedia on "Syria" and the other on the "Rape of the Sabine Women" both were extremely well researched and cited. Both were rejected out of hand. The latest was on the Rape of the Sabines history. The only historical reference anywhere to be found is in the Book of Jasher which is found cited in Joshua and 2nd Samuel, copies of it can be readily found on Amazon. It is the Book of Genesis it was written by Moses, Jasher simply means upright, true account. It is the only historical reference of this event I have ever come across. Who ever deleted it decided it was "apocryphal" ? Apocryphal means hidden...Jasher is not some hidden book, it tells the history of so much of Egypt, Babylon etc...it is too hard to list all it contains, it fleshes out so many historical references in Genesis, I have found it to be an absolute gold mine of information. The content of the Rape as given in Wikipedia is nothing but myth and supposition yet this is acceptable for what entertainment ? You might as well buy a comic book and believe that, the article on Syria was even worse. The history of Syria in the Bible is extensive, the language, Aramaic, the origin of the name the people who dwelt there all were referenced from the Bible. Aramaic used to be the court language of Assyria and Babylon, Aramaic,Persian and Hebrew were all synonymous back then because everyone after the flood spoke the same language Adam and Eve spoke. Babylon was built by Nimrod the son of Ethiopia. That city was built 40 years before Abraham was born, the Tower was destroyed in the 48th of Abraham's life and the 940th year of Noah's life. The confusion of languages took place in that same year when the tower was destroyed. Aram was the brother of Elam, Asshur and Arphaxad, the sons of Shem. Aram is Syria, Asshur was the founder of Assyria, he built Nineveh the capital of that ancient empire. Elam is Persia, as in the Persian empire. Arphaxad was the son through whom Abraham was born. The Bible is not welcome to the heathen and unfortunately this is likely the real reason for such immediate deletions. Anyway I did not know how to communicate with anyone of responsibility and I navigated to your pic and thought I'll just write to you regarding the response from Wikipedia. You can check my posts for yourself if history interests you, I could have greatly expand on the citations and cross references, but I'm not a person to waste time, " I don't speak to the deaf twice"... anyway for whatever it's worth, Thanks Jdamsforall (talk) 10:17, 24 December 2017 (UTC)
 * According to Book of Jasher (biblical references), the actual book referenced in the bible, is unknown. However, there exist 12th, 13th and 16th century books with that name (Sefer haYashar) and even an 18th century fake version (Book of Jasher (Pseudo-Jasher)). Since all but the book mentioned in the Bible were written long after the story Rape of the Sabine Women was told by Romans, references to it are unsurprising. Your contribution to the article does not say which version is being referenced and you may have read a (much) more modern book with that title than you assumed. Moreover, you used a book with that title as a WP:PRIMARY source. It's a typical case of extraordinary claims requiring extraordinary evidence. Kleuske (talk) 11:33, 24 December 2017 (UTC)
 * The long paragraph above is quite hard to follow. It seems that you want to cite the Book of Jasher as a reference in the article The Rape of the Sabine Women. As far as I can tell, no copy of the Book of Jasher exists, its existence is known only from mentions of it in other works. I'm pretty sure that a work which no longer exists and whose contents are known to no-one does not qualify as a "reliable published source".
 * It is possible that I have misunderstood you. If so, perhaps you could state your question more clearly, and much less verbosely. Maproom (talk) 11:39, 24 December 2017 (UTC)

Other web archives
web.archive.org has been really wonky recently were I live, it fails to save pages often and claims it doesn't have several article in the archive despite the fact that I looked at them the previous day. It says "bad request" all the time. Is there any alternative I could use?★Trekker (talk) 15:53, 20 December 2017 (UTC)
 * From WP:LINKROT there is also WebCite or look at Web archiving. RudolfRed (talk) 20:01, 20 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Thank you, I'm abit worried aboutgiving out my email adress but it's better than nothing.★Trekker (talk) 20:06, 20 December 2017 (UTC)


 * I suggest that you consider archive.is. I use it when Archive.org isn't working properly and on pages for which Archive.org will not create an archive. No email address is needed. It offers two options: 1) you can paste the URL of a page into a box on the page I linked in the first sentence or 2) you can add a bookmarklet to your browser window. Eddie Blick (talk) 01:55, 22 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Thank you!★Trekker (talk) 01:59, 22 December 2017 (UTC)


 * You might also want to look at this web page. It lists about a dozen services for saving web pages. The only one that I have tried is Archive.is, so I can't vouch for any of the others. Eddie Blick (talk) 19:38, 24 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Thank a lot again Eddie Blick! I feel much better kowing that I have alternatives, Archive.is is very good so far.★Trekker (talk) 20:07, 24 December 2017 (UTC)


 * You're welcome! Archive.is has worked well for me, too. Like you, though, I think it's good to have alternatives available. I wish that I had known about archiving pages when I began working on Wikipedia. Eddie Blick (talk) 20:47, 24 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Me too. So many good old sources I wish I could have saved.★Trekker (talk) 20:50, 24 December 2017 (UTC)
 * I have noticed that Archive.is has stoped working for me. :( Am I overusing it or something?

Displaying notability
My question concerns Draft: Markus Meechan. I was told that the sources I used did not show Meechan's notability. Given that he is the centre of a story that most of the media in Scotland, and to a far lesser extent outside, has been following, and that he owns a YouTube channel with 500k subscribers, I believe he is notable. My question is: how can I show this? — Preceding unsigned comment added by TheInspector5 (talk • contribs) 22:25, 22 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Hi, . Welcome to our Teahouse, and thanks for asking a very good question. To answer very briefly: I doubt you ever will. Sorry. The problem you have here is experienced by innumerable editors who, through no fault of their own (apart from perhaps not reading or understanding our key policies and guidelines) fail to grasp the core purpose of this encyclopaedia - to gather together and present information in a neutral manner on subjects worthy of note, all backed up with references to support that information. Yes, you have met our requirement of verifiability in that you've given reliable sources that prove this person exists. But to meet our standard for notability, we require in-depth coverage of that subject, and none of the articles you cite go anywhere near achieving that. Lots of people -good and bad- get short term coverage in newspapers because of some minor event or other. These don't interest us here. Do please read this guideline WP:NOTNEWS to learn why this encyclopaedia is not a medium for reporting on relatively insignificant people involved in short-term news events. Nobody here cares how many followers they have on social media, and you would need to have demonstrated much more coverage about the subject before your draft ever stood a chance of being accepted. I'm sorry if this disappoints you, but I do earnestly hope it won't put you off from contributing in other ways to this amazing encyclopaedia. Of course, you could always consider contributing this story to our sister project, Wikinews. Regards, Nick Moyes (talk) 23:28, 22 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Hi there is a "meme" about Youtube that is used here sometimes: "Being famous on Youtube is like being rich in Monopoly", it has little to no relevance outside of Youtube itself. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 06:53, 23 December 2017 (UTC)

How to fix a misdirected link
In the article https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_House_Where_Evil_Dwells there is a list of actors. One of the hyperlinked names, Amy Barrett, links to an article about the wrong person. How do you fix that? 96.41.41.48 (talk) 06:32, 25 December 2017 (UTC)


 * ; thank you for letting us know. --David Biddulph (talk) 06:38, 25 December 2017 (UTC)

Invited Me On Teahouse
Hello, sir i want to moved a draft with a article. Draft Name: Draft: Aap Ke Aa Jane Se Article Name : Aap Ke Aa Jane Se please invited on Teahouse Thank You. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Http002 (talk • contribs) 15:45, 22 December 2017 (UTC)


 * Welcome to Wikipedia. You will need to find published reliable sources independent of the subject.  At present the sources in your draft seem to be one from the subject's publisher and one from a forum. --David Biddulph (talk) 16:10, 22 December 2017 (UTC)


 * Please stop resubmitting the draft without addressing the problems. Repeatedly doing so is a waste of your time but more significantly is a waste of time for reviewers, and if you continue to do so it is liable to be regarded as tendentious editing. --David Biddulph (talk) 06:54, 25 December 2017 (UTC)

Bias present in a business organization's article
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Advertising_Bureau This article on UK-based advertising bureau has a really biased point of view, and it seems a major contributor's (username is Sarah Chetta) only contributions on this site (over a span of two years) are to this organization's page. I'm going to change it, but I thought I would bring it to others' attention.

Update: I took a look into the user as her username is her real name. Lo and behold, https://iabuk.net/blogs/sarah-chetta she works for the IAB. Specifically, she's the 'Online Content and Communications Manager.' https://www.linkedin.com/in/sarah-chetta-60149538

TheTechnician27 (talk) 08:16, 25 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Welcome to the Teahouse, . The best places to discuss your valid concerns are Talk:Internet Advertising Bureau and User talk: Sarah Chetta. It has been about three years since anyone has posted on her talk page, which indicates that active editors are not paying much attention to this article that she edits. You may want to notify her about Paid-contribution disclosure, which is mandatory. Perhaps she is unaware of that policy. Please feel free to edit the article to comply with the neutral point of view. <b style="color:#070">Cullen</b><sup style="color:#707">328  Let's discuss it  09:50, 25 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Internet_Advertising_Bureau was recreated by Chetta in defiance of its deletion under another name. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 10:37, 25 December 2017 (UTC)

How to delineate Author's notability
Hi guys,

I have been submitting a draft for Author and Art-Critic John K. Grande Draft: John K. Grande and it was declined, with the understandable argument, that the sources show not adequately Grande's notability. Thing is, eventhough there are dozens of sources stating Grande as an important figure in the field of Ecological Art (even the Wikipage states a couple of his books) I could not find particular readings with solely him being the subject of it. None of the sources are him talking about himself, which seems to be usually the problem with doubtful notability. One also has to understand, that the field he works in is narrow and low-profile, but even from the sources I have on my hands it becomes quite obvious that a lot of working artists and theorists in this field owe a lot to Grandes contributions and ideas. He obviously was not very keen on selling himself as somekind of a personality. Do you have any ideas of improving the draft to facilitate the creation of a wikipedia article this guy deserves?

Thanks, Teahouse!

2607:F2C0:956A:3F00:1D0D:6D03:8FF9:81BD (talk) 04:45, 25 December 2017 (UTC)


 * Hello, IP user. I'm sorry, but what you have told us in the paragraph above is precisely that he is not notable as Wikipedia uses the term. Another way of looking at this is that Wikipedia articles should be based close to 100% on what people unconnected with the subject have chosen to publish about them. If there is little such material, then it follows that it is literally impossible to write an acceptable article about them. The only way you can proceed successfully is by finding reliable independent sources, and if they don't exist, I'm afraid there is no way round it. --ColinFine (talk) 11:32, 25 December 2017 (UTC)


 * Sorry, was not logged in posting the question. Okay, I understand the guidelines of Wikipedias notability.

Would you mind having a look at the sources? I mean receiving a honorary doctor and different prices already points out to the acknowledgment Grande has received from high academic and independent institutions. That does not really contribute to the discussion, but I have read Wiki articles about less important figures in academic and artistic fields, with worth sources. --Lundizius (talk) 15:08, 25 December 2017 (UTC)
 * In the movie Field of Dreams there is a line "If you build it, they will come." Mr. Grande is truly a notable author, artist and art-critic. What you need to find is what people have published about him. Those will be suitable citations for the biography of a living person. Until then, not.

Question Regarding Watchlists (Publicly Accessible/Viewable?)
May I please inquire as to whether a means exist to make one's own watchlist viewable to others, e.g. via a 'Share Publicly' checkbox - or even some Wiki markup code that could be included on a given 'User:' page? (Editors who have a lot of experience appear to have quite diverse tastes - but creative use of the 'User:' page, to share something about both Wikipedia and themselves, appears to be a common thread amongst all such accounts...) idfubar (talk) 07:04, 25 December 2017 (UTC)


 * I'm not sure I would consider this a good idea, but it is possible to download your watchlist and then (possibly with some reformatting to make it look better) you could upload that file in your userspace so it would become visible to others. My impression is that most active editors have a fairly large and dynamic watchlist, so something uploaded by this method is likely to get out-of-date. For many editors, the fact that their watchlist is not public is very important.


 * Other sorts of offline tricks are possible with watchlists. For instance, it would be possible for a WikiProject to post a sample list of pages that their members are advised to watch and interested editors could then slurp that list into their own watchlist. To explore this further, try clicking on the button that says "Edit raw watchlist".  &mdash; jmcgnh  (talk) (contribs)  11:34, 25 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Yes, those approaches (and their reasoning) were considered... but the application in this particular case would be something like 'https://www.goodreads.com/user/show/5564812-rishi-chopra' (a bookshelf, but more like a living compendium - as the links are to articles)... Is there a proper way to request a feature which would facilitate the same? (Also, "thank you" for the the replies...) idfubar (talk) 12:26, 25 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Hi, . There's just time (between putting the turkey in the oven and starting the vegetables for Chistmas dinner) for me add that you could consider installing Page Collector script. It is entirely separate from your Watchlist, but allows you to create any number of named sub-pages, and then you can instantly add pages to them via a tab at the top of any page. These are all public, so can be easily shared. I have 3 such pages - one I'm building up with useful help or guidance pages that I feel I should sit down and read in detail sometime, and another for pages I personally want to edit in the future, and a 3rd for other pages I want to monitor for one reason or another. You could easily create one for a particular project and either share or encourage others to edit it, and anyone can use 'Recent Changes' to monitor altered pages on it. See also this advice. Merry Christmas, and regards from the UK, Nick Moyes (talk) 12:57, 25 December 2017 (UTC)
 * , thanks for the tip; is there a way to see the script in use? Just curious to see what a page of links created by 'Page Collector script' looks like... (Also, "Happy Holidays!") idfubar (talk) 14:05, 25 December 2017 (UTC)
 * No problem,, I've just gone back and added in links to my relevant subpages. New pages are automatically added to the bottom of the page, but you'll see you can then easily re-arrange content yourself if you want to. Remember, you won't get automatic notification of changes - they're more as a form of aide memoire. Hope this is a useful Xmas gift! Nick Moyes (talk) 16:16, 25 December 2017 (UTC)

How do I change a redirect?
I've just written a short article on St Lawrence Shakespeare Festival. Previously, when one searched for the company in Wikipedia, there was a redirect to Prescott, ON (the town in which the festival is located), although in fact there was no information about the festival there. I have added a short paragraph about the festival to the Prescott article, but the link in that paragraph still shows no actual article on SLSF. Can anyone help, please? Craig Walker (talk) 18:45, 25 December 2017 (UTC) Thank you! Craig Walker (talk) 19:09, 25 December 2017 (UTC)
 * The link at Prescott,_Ontario does indeed appear red in my browser, but if you actually click it it does bring you to the new page (St Lawrence Shakespeare Festival) rather than to the usual "page not found, create it or search for the terms" page. This may be a "purge" problem, and will likely solve itself within a few days. Tigraan <span title="Send me a silicium letter!" style="color:">Click here to contact me 18:51, 25 December 2017 (UTC)

Help
I need ur hlp — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hemantr4714 (talk • contribs) 00:35, 26 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Welcome to the Teahouse, . If you ask a specific question, we will try to help you. <b style="color:#070">Cullen</b><sup style="color:#707">328  Let's discuss it  00:38, 26 December 2017 (UTC)

how to publish online an article from sandbox?
how to publish online an article from sandbox? Leadpakistan (talk) 01:49, 26 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Good evening,, and welcome to the Teahouse. For a very new editor like yourself, the only way to publish a new article is to copy your sandbox text and submit it through articles for creation. However, I can tell you that, as it stands, your article I think it has no chances of being accepted. Creating a new article is one of the hardest things to do here - I took a year before I created my first page!
 * It is possible that LEAD Pakistan might just meet our Notability criteria for organisations, but not without more work by you. Do please read Your first article, and stand back a bit. Imagine you know nothing about this body -so what would a neutral encyclopaedia tell an uninformed reader about it? First of all, tell us what it actually is! You then need to establish that it meets our criteria for Notability, basing it on references to Reliable Sources that are totally independent of the subject. News or government websites are ideal for this. Nobody really cares about the Trustees and governors, so cut all that stuff out. You can work on an article in draft (once put into the articles for creation process) for almost as long as you like. Unattended drafts get deleted after 6 months, but not if youre still editing it. This is the best way to avoid being disappointed and disillusioned, but please remember that most of us here started slowly and learned Wikipedia's rules and guidlines as we went along over many hundreds of edits. Regards from the UK, Nick Moyes (talk) 03:02, 26 December 2017 (UTC)

How do I request that a user be blocked?
Hi! I have encountered a user, Yaarbelli (talk), whose account seems to be used entirely for unconstructive edits. Yaarbelli has been warned four times (plus once by a bot), but continues to make unconstructive edits. Where do I ask that Yaarbelli be blocked for whatever duration appears to be useful to the blocking admin? Noah Kastin (talk) (🖋) 07:18, 26 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Hi Noah Kastin, you can report them to WP:AIV if they make another disruptive edit after their final warning. NZFC  (talk) 07:32, 26 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Looks like they've already been blocked. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk)
 * Indeed, thanks to . Thank you, Alex Shih!
 * Thanks for the information! I will try to remember to use WP:AIV if a situation like this one ever occurs again.
 * Noah Kastin (talk) (🖋) 07:40, 26 December 2017 (UTC)
 * No problem. If you are ever unsure though, you can always consult individual admins. is your friendly next door admin for this kind of situation. I tend to bite. Alex Shih (talk) 07:46, 26 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the suggestion! (Use WP:AIV/contact . Noted.) Noah Kastin (talk) (🖋) 07:48, 26 December 2017 (UTC)

Becoming a better editor.
Hello fellow Wikipedians, and Merry Christmas! I was given a link to the Teahouse, and I have come here to ask some questions so that I can become a better editor on here. I made an account on here with one goal: to expand articles on here that are classified as stubs and to add my own articles on here as well. It would be really appreciative if someone helped me out by giving me good, adequate information that is easy for me to understand. Here are my questions:

My first question is, will someone please look over the edit that I made to the History section in the article of Bethel, Anderson County, Texas and tell me how I can paraphrase it so that it doesn't look like I wrote it word for word? I received it from its article on the Handbook of Texas.

My second question is, how can I paraphrase the information I want to add to the History section in the article of Blackfoot, Texas and tell me how I can copyright it so that it doesn't look like I plagiarized on here? I also received this information from its article on the Handbook of Texas online.

My third and final question is, will someone please look over an edit I made in the Geography section in the article of Mendoza, Texas so that I can keep it stable and prevent it from being removed? Another user said I had partially sourced what I added to this section. Will someone tell me what I did not source, and how I can source it to make sure it remains stable?

Thank you for taking the time to read this message. I do not want anymore warnings posted on my talk page saying I did not source anything, I did not copyright anything, or I plagiarized what I wrote, and that I did not paraphrase information. If someone could give me some good, adequate help that I can understand, that would be really appreciative. Thank you so much, and Merry Christmas! Colman2000 (talk) 01:01, 26 December 2017 (UTC)


 * Many experienced editors committed time at Help and on your Talk page on how to improve your editing. Your responses were combative, and at times insulting. You did not follow their advice. You also deleted all evidence of their advice from your Talk (which is all still there for anyone who views the history). In simple answers to your above questions: Don't copy. Don't copy. Don't copy. You big addition to Bethel was to take ~340 words from your source and very lightly reorder the content. Similar with the other articles. Having a citation at the end does not give the right to copy or nearly copy. To better paraphrase, copy text into your Sandbox for editng purposes. Then try to write it in your own words, shorter by 1/3 to 1/2, so that none of the original sentences and few of the original sentence sections remain. And then paste into an article, with appropriate citation(s). As an example, I paraphrased the Bethel history content to 209 words. If there is content you feel it is necessary to use word for word, put it in quotation marks and reference the source. There is no "keep it stable." If another editor reverts your changes, go to the Talk for that article and start a discussion on the topic (there, NOT on the editor's Talk page). Re-reverting the content is considered edit-warring, and can get you warned, possibly temporarily blocked. At Mendoza, there was a lot of adding and subtracting content, but no one ever started a discussion at Talk to work out the problems. If you do get around to creating articles, those are not 'your' articles. There is no 'own.' Other editors can add or subtract content. David notMD (talk) 11:38, 26 December 2017 (UTC)

Jimbo Wales 10 second speech excerpt about unlocking the sum total of human knowledge?
I'm trying to find a famous excerpt from maybe 5-10 years ago where Jimbo Wales is giving a speech for his vision of wikipedia something about "unlocking the sum total of human knowledge and making it available to the entire world, for free" and it was used over and over again in video montages. Can anyone help me find it? 67.233.34.199 (talk) 20:21, 26 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Google seems to have come up trumps for you. Try this: https://onbeing.org/programs/jimmy-wales-the-sum-of-all-human-knowledge-2/ Regards from the UK, Nick Moyes (talk) 20:35, 26 December 2017 (UTC)
 * “Imagine a world in which every single person on the planet is given free access to the sum of all human knowledge." Yes that's the quote! More specifically, now I just need to find one of those inspirational video montages that were popular 5-10 years ago. Now I have the quote, the rest of the journey should be fairly easy. Thanks again, 67.233.34.199 (talk) 20:49, 26 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Have you tried looking on Wikimedia Commons? I know there are a lot of Wikipedia-related presentations of various sorts there. Nick Moyes (talk)

Undoing a page move
A number of editors have been attempting to change the terminology in the Purple Drank article to "Lean" - I restored the last stable version, but it hasn't moved the article back to Purple Drank. Since there is a redirect at the original article now, how can I move it back? Seraphim System ( talk ) 21:41, 26 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Nominate the redirect for speedy deletion under G6. Once it's deleted, move it back and speedy the redirect. Or ask a Page mover to do it for you. Either one works. A lad insane  <small style="color:#6C2EA2">talk  22:04, 26 December 2017 (UTC)

WikiVisually
WikiVisually has scraped my sandbox. Should this even be possible? Narky Blert (talk) 23:58, 26 December 2017 (UTC)


 * Yes. Why not?  You made the text of your sandbox available under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License (as it says at the foot of the page).  There are many Wikipedia mirror sites. --David Biddulph (talk) 00:12, 27 December 2017 (UTC)
 * , everything you put on Wikipedia is licensed under a copyleft license, free for anyone to share as long as attribution is given. How they found it is another question as your sandbox shouldn't be indexed, but yeah, they certainly can copy and repost it. John from Idegon (talk) 00:14, 27 December 2017 (UTC)
 * I have no problems per se with my Wiki postings being scraped; though I share most editors' contempt. What surprised me was, that WikiVisually found my sandbox. Narky Blert (talk) 00:19, 27 December 2017 (UTC)
 * You'll be aware, no doubt, of the very recent change to the blue "Save changes" button in the editor? For legal reasons it has been renamed "Publish changes" so as to clarify that everything here is actually published online, whether in a draft or in your sandbox. If you know where to look, you can find anything. Indexing is irrelevant. But quite why some routine was created to do this is beyond me. I found my sandbox there, too, and any subpages just by swapping our usernames around,  so I suppose it's done the same for every editor. Regards from the UK,  Nick Moyes (talk) 00:43, 27 December 2017 (UTC)

Time zone?
Hello! Is it possible to change my timezone? Moss Boss 254 Talk 00:31, 27 December 2017 (UTC)


 * Welcome to Wikipedia. There is an option at Special:Preferences. --David Biddulph (talk) 00:42, 27 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Click the link above that David posted (to get there manually, click the "preferences" button near the top right of the screen, and click the tab marked "Appearance") and scroll down. There should be a section marked "Time offset" that displays the server time and the local time, and an expandable selection list of time zones. It's a bit long, but select the one that applies to you. There's also a gadget in this list (under the "Appearance" tab, ninth one down) that replaces time stamps, which are in UTC, with local time stamps. Hope it helps! A lad insane  <small style="color:#6C2EA2">talk  00:44, 27 December 2017 (UTC)

Ah ok got it. Thanks! Also, just realized that there's a mobile and desktop view option, so yay :) Moss Boss 254  Talk 00:56, 27 December 2017 (UTC)

Help...
I have not figured out how to use the "talk" section. I would like to engage with the person who has reverted my edit, but I do not know how. At least one writer tried to help but I still could not figure it out. Can anyone call me and talk me through it? JakeSeeker of truth 2015 (talk) 19:52, 26 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Hello and welcome. To use a talk page, click the Talk tab at the top of the article, that you see when viewing the main article. You can then either edit the talk page as a whole (click "edit" at the top) or individual sections (click "edit" in the header of the relevant section).
 * I don't think it's a good idea to request to be called on the phone; this is a global project and people outside your nation may not want to spend money calling you; it is also risky security wise to exchange phone numbers. 331dot (talk) 19:59, 26 December 2017 (UTC)
 * There are some local libraries or computer help centers who may offer personal assistance in using the Internet that might help you, if there is one in your area. 331dot (talk) 20:01, 26 December 2017 (UTC)


 * If you want live chat help, goto IRC_help_disclaimer and click the button to start the IRC session. RudolfRed (talk) 22:22, 26 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Assuming you mean your edits to List of Confederate monuments and memorials. You have made six edits and those have been reverted by five different people. When viewing that article, upper left has a tab "Talk" Once there, you will see past discussions about the article. You should click on New section, top menu, toward right. This lets you start a new discussion topic. The other editors can choose to participate. Or not. That path is considered more appropriate than leaving comments on their Talk pages. David notMD (talk) 04:00, 27 December 2017 (UTC)

POLICY: Attribution of quotes from fiction
Do we have a policy on quoting statements from fiction and attributing it to the author without mentioning the book title. This type of attribution could be used to give an impression that a quote is endorsed by an author where in fact the author is writing it in the voice of a fictional character which may not reflect or may totally contradict the author's own opinions or position on a subject. Edaham (talk) 01:48, 27 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Welcome to the Teahouse, . Yes, our core content policy Verifiability says that we must "Attribute all quotations and any material whose verifiability is challenged or likely to be challenged to a reliable, published source using an inline citation." A proper inline citation must include complete bibliographic detail, which would certainly include the title of the work of fiction, along with its author, publisher, publication date, ISBN number, and so on. In my opinion, if the quote is from a fictional character, then that character, not the author, must be mentioned in the body of the article. In other words, you should not use a random early remark by Huckleberry Finn to portray Mark Twain (Samuel Clemens) as an advocate of racism. <b style="color:#070">Cullen</b><sup style="color:#707">328  Let's discuss it  05:04, 27 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Thanks . I'd read through wp:v before asking this question. Our core policy would certainly uphold the correction of any material published here, were it constructed as I described above. Is the situation I described above mentioned more explicitly, or does it warrant mentioning with a view to preventing such a practice from taking place? Edaham (talk) 05:12, 27 December 2017 (UTC)
 * I believe that the policy language I quoted above is perfectly applicable to this situation, . Even though it does not explicitly mention works of fiction, it applies to every single quotation in a Wikipedia article, without exception. The fact that a work is fictional does not exempt quotations from that work from the ironclad policy requirement that any quote in an encyclopedia article must be properly attributed by a proper inline citation. <b style="color:#070">Cullen</b><sup style="color:#707">328  Let's discuss it  05:24, 27 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Not to worry then. Many thanks! Edaham (talk) 05:52, 27 December 2017 (UTC)

Why my article "Tor Madira Machier" was rejected?
I recently created a page with the name 'Tor Madira Machier' but unfortunately it was rejected. I wonder why despite the fact that i included reliable sourcesJunubipedia (talk) 10:08, 27 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Hello and welcome to the Teahouse. You are already communicating with Theroadislong about this; I would agree with their assessment of the draft you wrote.  The person you are writing about needs to have in depth coverage of themselves as a journalist in independent reliable sources, that is, sources not associated with the person. 331dot (talk) 10:11, 27 December 2017 (UTC)

Frozen sandbox
Hi I’m not sure if this question is within the scope if the Teahouse, but if anyone can assist I’d be very grateful. Earlier today I was drafting an article in my sandbox when it kind of ground to a halt and froze. I’ve tried opening my sandbox from different computers over several hours, but the browser just churns round and can’t open it. I have no problem logging into my account or looking at other personal pages; only the sandbox won’t open. Any advice very welcome. Thanks Mccapra (talk) 14:30, 27 December 2017 (UTC)
 * I've tried to look at User:Mccapra/sandbox with three different browsers, and they all timed out. But I can access User:Mccapra/sandbox&action=edit, and am suspicious of all the tags, some of them empty, and all missing their  tags.  Maproom (talk) 15:33, 27 December 2017 (UTC)
 * ok thanks. I’ve tried following the link you provided but it doesn’t work. If you’re able to get into the sandbox would you mind just clearing it out and just deleting everything? I’ll start again and avoid using the 3 column dividers. I guess you’re right and they’re what’s messed it up. Many thanks indeed for your help with this.Mccapra (talk) 16:04, 27 December 2017 (UTC)

Visual editor unavailable on Talk pages?
Is the Visual editor completely unavailable on Talk pages---if so, why?

(When editing main space, the option to toggle between Visual/code editors is present; however, Talk pages default to the Code editor).

Thanks!

<span style="color: #0000000; text-shadow: 2px 2px 15px #0099FF, -2px -2px 15px #0026ff;">— Apollonaut <span style="text-shadow: -4px 4px 15px grey, 4px -4px 15px grey;">📞 14:50, 27 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Yes, the Visual Editor is disable on talk pages. The short reason is that talk pages use a variety of complex features of wikitext (e.g. indenting, closure/collapse templates, pings and signing) that would be awkward to edit using VE. The longer answer is that when VE was first introduced, it had a sister project called Flow that was supposed to modernise discussion pages, including the ability to write comments using a visual editor. However, after a rather bungled launch Flow ended up being indefinitely disabled on the English Wikipedia. –&#8239;Joe (talk) 16:02, 27 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Thank you,, for the good news. I was aware of Flow as the WMF's next impending train crash, following Visual Editor and Media Viewer. I was unaware that it had been cancelled. Maproom (talk) 17:54, 27 December 2017 (UTC)

Can WP:PROD be removed?
Hi, I have a question. I nominated an article Christopher Homes for deletion based on the fact that there was very little substance that warranted a full article and it mainly relied on events and didn't cover the subject matter itself. I did institute WP:PROD to put it up for discussion to see if others agreed, however my tag was removed by an editor because he/she deemed the subject notable enough. Can the WP:PROD tag be removed by a single editor without any discussion? I wasn't aware that could be the case. Snickers2686 (talk) 17:47, 27 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Hi, welcome to the Teahouse. Yes, if another uninvolved editor challenges the PROD, it is no longer uncontroversial. Instead, you should nominate the article for WP:AFD instead. Regards, Alex Shih (talk) 17:51, 27 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Thanks. That's just what I did. Snickers2686 (talk) 17:57, 27 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Doesn't even have to be an uninvolved editor. An editor other than the (main) contributor would be needed to remove a speedy tag, but PRODs can be removed by just about anyone (banned users and block evaders are the only exception). PRODs only work when there's nobody interested in keeping the article. It's supposed to be super-low maintenance: a reason, but not necessarily any discussion, to put on a PROD and no discussion required (though it would be nice to know reasons) to remove it. If the prod expires, it goes on a list and if the admin who looks at it decides it really needs to stay, they can just remove the PROD and it's done.  &mdash; jmcgnh  (talk) (contribs)  23:50, 27 December 2017 (UTC)

How has Wikipedia changed in the last 5-ish years?
I used to be a very devoted editor to Wikipedia, and then I stopped editing about five years ago (let's say, for the sake of argument, January of 2012).

What's changed since then -- in terms of policies, technology, etc? Obviously I see we have a cool new editing interface. Did anyone ever make progress on setting up an auto-archive system to combat link rot in cited sources? What were the big scandals and crises that I missed?

Thanks! Andrew Gradman talk/WP:Hornbook 19:38, 23 December 2017 (UTC)


 * With regards to the linkrot we now have IABot, which use can use here https://tools.wmflabs.org/iabot/index.php?page=runbotsingle -- Emir of Wikipedia (talk) 19:43, 23 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Since that time span is virtually equivalent to my time here, let me add my observations:
 * There is a much stronger drive to include sourcing for all changes, not just controversial ones. Personally, I view this as good, as we are rapidly replacing traditional encyclopedias as the go-to source for information, and since Wikipedia will never be "citable" due to its dynamic nature, it gives the reader something to use as a real source.
 * As just a quick read of this very page will indicate, paid editing and the use of Wikipedia for promotion and SEO has become a thing/problem/nuisance/overriding issue, depending on your viewpoint.
 * Although not completely, most needed articles have already been created, shifting the emphasis from article creation to article improvement and updating.
 * Partially because of #3, there are many more articles being created dealing with current events than in the past. The desirability of this is also subject to widely varying acceptance amongst the community.
 * Welcome back! John from Idegon (talk) 04:30, 25 December 2017 (UTC)
 * We also have this nifty new thing called a ping, which I should have used in my message above to let you know I'd responded, . Merry Christmas. John from Idegon (talk) 04:34, 25 December 2017 (UTC)

Did "Edit Conflict" ever get fixed if 2 people are replying on a talk page at the same time? 67.233.34.199 (talk) 02:42, 28 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Yes, but unfortunately (other then the ping), nothing new have changed. Edit conflicts are common, and people will come to you talkpage and complain and you need to explain again and again that it was due to edit conflict, etc. But yes, welcome back!--Biografer (talk) 02:48, 28 December 2017 (UTC)

Free help?
Is anyone can help me free of charge to edit my page and approve it? Will appreciate your help. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:Denis_KhoroshkoKhoroshko (talk) 20:18, 24 December 2017 (UTC)


 * You might like to read WP:Referencing for beginners to learn how to insert an in-line reference for each statement in the draft. I'm not sure how many people will be available to help on Christmas day, but Happy Christmas anyway.    D b f i r s   20:38, 24 December 2017 (UTC)


 * I looked at each reference. They are all in Russian which I can not read.... so I was unable to relate them to the text of the article. sorry I could not help.  You will also have difficulty because it is an autobiography. Regards, Ariconte (talk) 21:41, 24 December 2017 (UTC)
 * All Wikipedians edit for free, or are supposed to. If somebody is paid to write something here they are supposed to disclose it on their userpage or possibly the talk page of the article they are working on.
 * Merry Christmas! White Arabian Filly  Neigh 22:15, 24 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Yes, most Wikipedians will help you free of charge (I don't know where you got that idea from), but just like any other Wiki, its free of charge. See WP:Free content for more details. PS: Luckily for you I speak Russian so, I might help you. Come to my talkpage after you will be done reading this, I will help you out with whatever you need. :)--Biografer (talk) 02:56, 28 December 2017 (UTC)

Photography credits
Should photographers be credited for photos, like at Jon Brion? The Verified Cactus 100% 00:17, 28 December 2017 (UTC)


 * No, . MOS:CREDITS. --ColinFine (talk) 00:35, 28 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Noted, thank you. The Verified Cactus 100% 00:36, 28 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Improper credit removed on indicated article. John from Idegon (talk) 00:42, 28 December 2017 (UTC)
 * All due credit is given to the photographer, on the photo's own page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Jon_Brion.jpg . Maproom (talk) 08:45, 28 December 2017 (UTC)