Wikipedia:Teahouse/Questions/Archive 820

Avoiding gotchas for new page
Given the large backlog of new pages waiting for review before being included in the main article space, are there any common gotchas that I need to be careful of, to avoid the possibility of having to go round the review loop a second time? Also, given the backlog, is it acceptable to link to the draft from the main article space while I'm waiting for the article to be reviewed? For reference this is for Draft:List of successfully predicted asteroid impacts. Thanks. Rafflesgluft (talk) 20:54, 24 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Hello, - those are good questions. First off, no,  please don't link to a draft from within an existing mainspace article.  That link would be swiftly deleted, as it would open such a can of worms for everyone to link to content, no matter what their quality.  It looks far more interesting than the usual 'gotchas' of very minor sporting celebrities, barely-notably companies and the like - but that's just my view. I'd  suggest the real  'gotchas' to avoid are making statements which are unsubstantiated, or which come from sources not regarded as 'Reliable' and, of course, making sure the topic meets our criteria of 'Notability, nor repeats content already present elsewhere without adding significantly to it.
 * I've only had a cursory look at your submitted draft, but it does look as though you've used colour to indicate meaning - if that's so, it's important to ensure other means of communicating facts are used. Not everyone can read colours, and on my laptop screen the four colours look virtually identical. See MOS:CONTRAST. It also looks more like an article than a list - so I'd be interested to know if you think some of the content would be better placed in such an article discussing prediction methodology,or whether that already exists. I reiterate:  these comments are only made after a very cursory glance at this stage. Interesting-looking draft, though. Good luck at WP:AFC review. Regards, Nick Moyes (talk) 21:31, 24 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Hi, welcome to the Teahouse. In my experience by far the most common reason an article is rejected at Articles for Creation is that the references don't show the subject is notable. The biggest gotcha is that once that's resolved there are sometimes other, secondary issues that block publication and reviewers don't typically explain every issue at once; they give one rejection reason. That can cause more than one round of waiting for reviews. At a glance, I don't see any such issues with your draft and some aspects of it are very impressive. It should wait for a full review in case there are issues I'm missing but I don't foresee gotchas. If it does get rejected, feel free to ask me to look more closely and advise. Linking to a draft from mainspace is a bad idea because drafts aren't expected to be ready for public viewing. AfC is not mandatory, so you do have the option of moving the article to mainspace (and removing all the AfC templates etc). I recommend patience instead - this will get reviewed in due course - but you're clearly competent and once you've had an article or two looked over by other people you could start drafting articles and publishing them yourself rather than going through the review process. Welcome to Wikipedia, it's great to have you aboard. &rsaquo; Mortee  talk 21:35, 24 August 2018 (UTC)
 * (after edit conflict) the colour issue is a good suggestion for improvement, but would not block an AfC review. Articles don't have to be perfect to be accepted, just presentable and on notable subjects. &rsaquo; Mortee  talk 21:35, 24 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Thanks and, appreciated. I have deleted the link to the draft. I read somewhere that it's good to link to a new article when you create it to get other editors to work on it, but I guess it must have meant once it is beyond draft. Regarding the use of color, it is only a visual aid, I've put the warning time into the table to cover it. I take on board that the colours are a bit similar though! I'll have a look at some other pages and try to use some more distinct colours. Thanks very much for the advice and feedback both of you.Rafflesgluft (talk) 21:48, 24 August 2018 (UTC)
 * exactly. It's helpful to link to articles in mainspace so that traffic reaches them and they don't end up as orphans. Drafts aren't ready to be linked to yet. &rsaquo; Mortee  talk 22:00, 24 August 2018 (UTC)
 * I took a look too. I made a few minor edits - looks good.  I'm also not sure it's titled right though.  Since it's not a pure list, and there's a lot of text, it might be better as simply Successfully predicted asteroid impacts.  But then, that begs the question - wouldn't this be better as part of Impact event or Asteroid impact avoidance, the first two links in the see also section? TimTempleton (talk)  (cont)  22:09, 24 August 2018 (UTC)
 * You're welcome! I agree with that poor colour choices would never be a rationale for declining an article. Whilst I've not yet checked the references themselves, a further look does indicate it's going to be a very informative addition to our encyclopaedia. Bearing in mind that the page only actually tabulates three successfully predicted asteroid impacts in total, I'm not convinced you've titled the article most effectively. So, I wonder, would an article title along the lines of Asteroid impact prediction or maybe Successful prediction of asteroid impacts on Earth be better? Your table could still be included and updated - then only moved into a separate 'List' at such time as there are enough entries to warrant a stand-alone list. In essence, I think you're selling this content a little short; it deserves its own article (assuming one doesn't exist already - and I can't find one). Other minor comments I could make include:
 * "The current aim is to catalog 90% of objects larger than 140m in the next few decades..." (you need to clarify whose aim it is. Is it yours, NASA's, ESA's or a certain Mr Trump's?)
 * There's a little bit of unnecessary repetition of the fact that small objects are hard to spot and therefore to predict when they'll impact
 * Your four-colour scheme isn't actually needed right now, as all three rows fall within the 'red' category of prediction in less than 24hrs. So this could be a bit confusing to users. Recognising that future impacts may well fall into other categories, why not keep the text, but hide it from viewers until such time as it's actually needed. You can use to blank lines from view, whilst still retaining them.
 * Notes: I think your 'Notes' these should actually form part of the article, and not appear as footnotes mid-way through the page (assuming you rename the page, as suggested)
 * All my above comments are far more appropriate to a detailed critique at WP:PEERREVIEW, and definitely not WP:AFC. So I'm sure an AFC reviewer like, who regularly seeks feedback from us here, might well wish to take a look at this and give it his blessing. (famous last words!) Keep up the great work. (Oh, one other 'gotcha' at WP:AFC is WP:COPYVIO. I'm very pleased to say that absolutely none was detected in your draft, using our standard tool.) Cheers, Nick Moyes (talk) 22:37, 24 August 2018 (UTC)
 * The draft isn't a list. It is an article draft.  It should be renamed.  That is my first comment.  On initial reading, it is a lot better than most of the stuff that I review.  The basic question to be decided by an AFC reviewer is whether the draft, if accepted into article space, will survive an Articles for Deletion nomination.  My answer is that it will, and should be accepted.  I haven't read all of the related articles and so don't have an opinion as to whether it could be merged into other articles, but for now it is reasonable to accept it into article space.  The usual reasons why I decline drafts are lack of notability, promotional character, and general cluelessness.  It doesn't have those.  It is a notable topic, and isn't pushing anything.  Robert McClenon (talk) 23:39, 24 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Thanks -  I was hoping that would be your view. Nick Moyes (talk) 23:41, 24 August 2018 (UTC)
 * User:Rafflesgluft - I'll accept it if you tell me what article name (not list name) it should be given for me to accept. Robert McClenon (talk) 00:10, 25 August 2018 (UTC)
 * As I suggested above, I'd offer either Asteroid impact prediction or perhaps Successful prediction of asteroid impacts on Earth - but it would be nice for the article creator  to have some input on this. Nick Moyes (talk) 00:42, 25 August 2018 (UTC)
 * To my mind the article seems so pro-active as to be premature. Three successes, each only hours ahead, are hardly enough for a pie chart, table, and other trappings. When there's a dozen, some of them days ahead, or a real movement towards a systematic program for spotting these rogue rocks, a whole article will be appropriate. Either is probably years off, so a few paragraphs in the impact article or the avoidance article can suffice until then. I do hate to discourage someone who has obviously been working attentively on the draft, however. Jim.henderson (talk) 00:58, 25 August 2018 (UTC)
 * ,, , , many thanks for all the feedback. Taking all of the above into account it seems to me that the article really needs to be on the wider topic of Asteroid impact prediction, which can incorporate a section on successful predictions but will cover the topic more generally, as there is no separate article about impact prediction. I can then put a small amount of text about impact prediction into the Impact event article where you suggested Jim and refer to the new article from there. I take on board the point about there only being three right now and have commented out both the pie chart and table colouring. I will go ahead and make the other edits. One thing I don't know how to do: how do I change the title of the draft to Asteroid impact prediction, or is that something that you will do Robert? Thanks again all, much appreciated.Rafflesgluft (talk) 06:45, 25 August 2018 (UTC)

, you should be able to WP:MOVE it without problem. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 09:04, 25 August 2018 (UTC)
 * thanks - done. the article has now been renamed to Asteroid impact prediction and restructured accordingly (list moved to the bottom, introductory text at the top).Rafflesgluft (talk) 09:51, 25 August 2018 (UTC)
 * ✅ - Accepted into article space. Robert McClenon (talk) 11:34, 25 August 2018 (UTC)
 * thanks, and to all the others who contributed comments too. Although in hindsight I could have created this without going through the process, the article is much improved thanks to your input. Thanks!Rafflesgluft (talk) 13:32, 25 August 2018 (UTC)

Dead Links
What should I do when I find dead links?

Obviously I know you can get a new link from the Wayback Machine, but what do I do next?

Do I simply delete the old link, and add the new link?

Or

Do I press edit, and add/change stuff in the categories: URL, Title, Last Name, First Name, Source Date, Website, Publisher, Archive URL, Archive Date, Dead URL, URL Access Date?

Danstarr69 (talk) 16:25, 25 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Hi, welcome. There are some instructions at WP:DEADLINK. The short version is: leave url as it is. Add https://archivelinkyoufound.com. Add 4 February 2012 (or whatever date the archived version was created). deadurl is optional; it just changes which part of the readable citation gets hyperlinked. If there's a deadlink template next to the ref, that can be removed now you've fixed the issue. &rsaquo; Mortee  talk 16:44, 25 August 2018 (UTC)

Text Box Size
Hi,

When I click "Edit Source" the text box displayed is only 3 rows in height so it makes it really difficult to manage any edits. How do I increase the size of the edit box.

ThanksJopal22 (talk) 17:28, 25 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Hi, welcome to the Teahouse. That's very weird! The edit box always opens up at a sensible size for me. If it's a persistent problem, maybe experiment with other browsers? In any case, there should be a little triangle made of six squares right underneath the scroll bar in the bottom right. If you click and drag that, you should be able to resize the box. &rsaquo; Mortee  talk 19:10, 25 August 2018 (UTC)

Thanks Mortee. I restarted my computer, and now it is fine! Jopal22 (talk) 19:19, 25 August 2018 (UTC)

Notification of deletion - problem.
Hi, I've received a warning notification that the article - Momodou Ceesay, artist - is to be deleted. Apparently this is due to it having no references, yet it does have many references (which have been there since it was created in 2012). Could the warning notification be an error? I've read the guidelines/notes but I'm a little confused as I feel the article meets Wikipedia policies. I would be most grateful for any help/clarification from experienced Wikipedians, in the hopes that I can do whatever is necessary to prevent the proposed automatic deletion. Many thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Edgelic (talk • contribs) 19:28, 25 August 2018 (UTC)
 * God knows. I don't understand the nomination either and it's been reversed already. I'll pick it up with the editor that made it. Don't worry for now. &rsaquo; Mortee  talk 19:35, 25 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Many thanks for your quick reply, for the correction and for putting my mind at rest! Much appreciated.

New Question
Hi, I would like to check before making major changes to the page on Service Dogs and the page on Assistance dogs and clarify with someone more experienced that I am doing the right thing, and how matters are usually addressed when terms have very close but not identical meanings. At the moment there are 2 pages, both saying different things, but covering the same topic. The 'correct' term is assistance dog, as supported by Assistance Dog s International, the international body to which most member states in the world seek to affiliate. The term 'service dog' is used colloquially in the USA but not widely outside the USA, and most US law also still avoids this term, as it's technical meaning is wider than simply assistance dog, and also covers several other types of working dogs. I would like to move most of the information currently on the 'Service Dog' page onto the 'Assistance Dog' page, with a clear Disambiguation at the top to redirect anyone using the term 'service dog' to look specifically for information on dogs that support disabled people, as well as providing links to other types of service dogs, and a small discussion on controversies on service dogs in general. I would also like to move a small amount of information from the current assistance dog page back to the service dog page, as the information about dogs who work in court houses and schools are actually good examples of dogs who are service dogs, not assistance dogs so that information is also in the wrong place. However, as I haven't been involved in any Wikipedia editing in years, I wanted to run this past someone with a bit of experience before I did it, as it is a rather significant change to someone else's work. Many thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wheeled Ciara (talk • contribs) 19:14, 25 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Hello, and welcome to the Teahouse. You have phrased your question quite clearly, but I think you would be better directing it to the talk pages of the two articles. Asked there, it should elicit feedback from users with interests in editing those pages, rather than seeking general views or approval here. Having done so, don't rush to make changes but wait at least a week for others to come in to give their views, and do discuss in a reasonable and logical manner. This is how we work on Wikipedia, and I wish you luck gaining that consensus. You're going about it in the right way. Regards from the UK, Nick Moyes (talk) 19:53, 25 August 2018 (UTC)


 * Hello, . Welcome to the Teahouse, and thank you for wanting to help improve Wikipedia. The place to discuss this sort of thing is the Talk pages of the relevant articles (every article has a Talk page, though in some cases it hasn't been created yet). Since you want to talk about both articles together, I suggest you start a discussion on one of the talk pages, and post a note on the other one pointing to the discussion, so that it can be done in one place. --ColinFine (talk) 19:46, 25 August 2018 (UTC)
 * , I agree with both of you: there's a problem here, and the best way to address it is a discussion on the talk page of one article, linked to from the other. There are two categories being conflated by our current articles: dogs assisting people with disabilities, specifically, and a broader category including rescue dogs, sniffer dogs, possibly sled dogs. If you do start a discussion, as Colin suggests, please do message us again here to let us know where it is. &rsaquo;  Mortee  talk 19:57, 25 August 2018 (UTC)

Many thanks and  for your help, I have now put a message on both pages talk page and directed the discussion to the Service dog page as it seems to have slightly more recent traffic. Wheeled Ciara (talk) 21:10, 25 August 2018 (UTC)

Additional reading
I keep having my additions removed, I am told I am in some sort of war and that I might be a spammer, whatever that is, but I simply thought my website might be interesting for readers, it involved no advertising of any sort and nor will it ever do so, and so I am wondering why my website is unsuitable. Dave Murray — Preceding unsigned comment added by Davemurray58 (talk • contribs) 16:05, 25 August 2018 (UTC)
 * You have added your website to at least a dozen beetle articles. Other editors have deleted it. An "edit war" is when two editors are changing/reverting the same content repeatedly. Individuals' websites are not appropriate as External links. Factual accuracy is not the issue. (I, personally, am impressed with your professionalism.) Warnings have been posted to your Talk page. If you persist, you will be blocked. David notMD (talk) 16:36, 25 August 2018 (UTC)


 * Hello, and welcome to the Teahouse. More of a general tip: when you receive such a warning on your user talkpage (like the one by ), do not continue with similar edits but try to clarify the issue with the other editor first. Personal websites are generally not acceptable as external links (or as references for that matter). As a knowledgeable editor your contributions to this topic area would be greatly appreciated, but you need to source them to scholarly reliable sources (see WP:RS for Wikipedia's guideline about "reliability"). You might also be interested in WikiProject Insects and WikiProject Beetles with information and forums for editors who are interested in this topic area. GermanJoe (talk) 17:36, 25 August 2018 (UTC)

Basically they only like links from local/national/international newspapers, national/international magazines, national/international websites from well known names, and book references from well-known authors. They don't link links from social media websites, or people/companies own websites promoting their own products. They have to be independent. There's quite a few pages which I think should exist on Wikipedia, but don't yet as they're seen as "not notable enough", or the links aren't deemed "good/independent enough", but one day most of them will exist on Wikipedia once I've read the "notability guidelines" properly, and have found enough independent links from notable sources like the BBC. For example there's around 3 or 4 well known Grime websites and artists that get millions of hits or views every month which aren't seen as "notable enough" because they're seen as personal websites. Yet they've appeared on BBC radio and TV multiple times (among other networks), or been mentioned in BBC articles multiple times. One day when I get around to it those artists/websites will be on Wikipedia because I'll collect as many BBC articles as I can find to prove their notability. Danstarr69 (talk) 16:55, 25 August 2018 (UTC)
 * that's true where links are being used as a reference. What is discussing is external links, in a separate section at the bottom of the article. The rules there are a bit different. For example, IMDb isn't considered "reliable" for most purposes as a reference because anyone can contribute to it, but it's a totally standard external link because readers might very well want to look at the information and ratings there. Similarly many articles link to an official website, but for some purposes that's not great as a reference (it doesn't help establish notability but can be used for verification in some cases). In the case of this beetles site, I think the reason it's been flagged is that a new editor was adding a link to the same, less high-profile, site several times in a row, which suggested to some editors not in this discussion that it was spam. There's no reason in principle (that I can see) why an external link to ukbeetles.co.uk wouldn't be appropriate. I applaud your efforts to find reliable sources like the BBC to bolster any Grime articles you'd like to improve. &rsaquo;  Mortee  talk 19:29, 25 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Actually a couple of clarifications, in case anyone reading this gets the wrong impression. Local papers can be useful as references too, as can e.g. obscure academic journals. There's another distinction here between what are useful references for verifiability (anything trustworthy) vs for notability (anything trustworthy that demonstrates significance). Those are quite different, and it's easy to confuse them. &rsaquo; Mortee  talk 20:01, 25 August 2018 (UTC)

I haven't created any articles yet, but when I do I'll be focusing more on articles about the City of Bradford or Television in the United Kingdom before I start on articles about Grime (music genre). Grime is just an example that sticks out as some people don't see it as "real music" and the same goes for Bassline (music genre) which is the Northern equivalent of Grime. I'm by no means an expert, but I think if an artist is good enough to appear regularly on radio stations like BBC Radio 1, BBC Radio 1Xtra, BBC Radio Leeds, BBC Asian Network, Capital XTRA etc, (along with their Youtube channels), BBC channels like BBC Three (online), huge Youtube channels like SB.TV, Link Up TV, GRM Daily, Tim Westwood TV, Charlie Sloth, JDZ Media etc, and music festivals like Reading and Leeds Festivals, Creamfields, and countless festivals by the BBC among others, then they must be notable right? Yes the majority of the ones I'm thinking of haven't been signed to any big record labels or had songs in the charts yet, but if they're being hired/asked to perform on radio, TV, festivals etc surely they're more notable than some of the "musicians" who have pages on here. For example artists who've had a one-hit-wonder, and then were never heard from again like 3 of a Kind (band). — Preceding unsigned comment added by Danstarr69 (talk • contribs) 20:55, 25 August 2018 (UTC)
 * absolutely. WP:NBAND#11 says if they're regularly played on such channels then they're likely to be notable, so you shouldn't have trouble on that account. &rsaquo; Mortee  talk 21:12, 25 August 2018 (UTC)

Wait, where did the beetles go? David notMD (talk) 23:56, 25 August 2018 (UTC)

Mental health UK
Awful, biased, factually incorrect article — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.43.198.81 (talk) 22:41, 21 August 2018 (UTC)


 * Do you have any examples to back up your claims? MarnetteD&#124;Talk 22:57, 21 August 2018 (UTC)


 * Hello 82.43.198.81 and welcome to the Teahouse.
 * It seems you are commenting on the content of Mental health in the United Kingdom, not asking about how to edit Wikipedia. While we appreciate that the Teahouse seems like a friendly place to discuss all manner of things, it turns out that complaints about the article should go on the talk page of the article. It's best if you can point out particular statements that are incorrect and, if possible, point to suitable sources for the correct and unbiased information. Otherwise, the article will likely remain as it is.  — jmcgnh (talk) (contribs) 00:10, 22 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Mental health in the United Kingdom is not a neutral article about a subject. It's an opinion piece, almost a rant. Maproom (talk) 08:16, 23 August 2018 (UTC)
 * I've added the article to Cleanup. Rosalina2427   (talk to me)  03:56, 26 August 2018 (UTC)

New article
I want to create Zbruč. But I can't. Why? --Zazbruchanec&#39; (talk) 08:01, 26 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Hello and welcome to the Teahouse. Only autoconfirmed users can create articles in mainspace directly. It takes four days and ten edits to become autoconfirmed. Since your account is 0 days old (created today), you are not autoconfirmed yet and cannot create articles. You may draft it in your sandbox or Draft:Zbruč for now. Regards ~ Abelmoschus Esculentus  (talk to me) 08:05, 26 August 2018 (UTC)

Twinkle
I have one doubt that what is the purpose of Rollback(AGF) in twinkle?-- PATH SLOPU (Talk) 08:04, 26 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Hello and welcome to the Teahouse. AGF means "Assume good faith". This is the relevant guideline. You can use it to revert good-faith edits (not vandalism) and leave an edit summary. ~ Abelmoschus Esculentus  (talk to me) 08:07, 26 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Thank you for your help. PATH SLOPU (Talk) 08:24, 26 August 2018 (UTC)

Account confirmation
Hi guys, hope you all alright. My account hasn't been auto-confirmed since I've reached 10 edits and 4days have passed. My question is does it take more than 4 days or I just have to be a little more patient? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jeff Chakanyuka (talk • contribs) 08:44, 26 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Hello and welcome to the Teahouse. The time now is 08:52, 26 Aug. According to your user creation log, you created your account in 19:52, 22 Aug. Unfortunately you need to wait for about 11 hours to become autoconfirmed. Be patient ~  Abelmoschus Esculentus  (talk to me) 08:54, 26 August 2018 (UTC)

Wine AOC is now AOP
I just returned from France where those in the industry are all referring to their wines as being AOP (Appellation d'Origine Protégée) and no longer AOC (Appellation d'Origine Contrôlée). This applies to cheeses and some other foods as well. This would require some work among the Wikipedia members to update this, but it probably should be done.

See, e.g.: http://www.internationalwineguild.com/aoc--aop

Leigh Pomeroy

 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Redjackco (talk • contribs) 17:11, 22 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Hi, welcome to the Teahouse. Thanks for mentioning this. I don't know if there are any wine specialists that frequent this board, but there might well be. If you'd like to help improve articles about foods with protected statuses, or find experienced editors in that field, you might be interested in WikiProject Food and drink and WikiProject Wine. If you have any specific questions, feel free to come back to the Teahouse and ask us. &rsaquo; Mortee  talk 17:35, 23 August 2018 (UTC)
 * I will also note,, that your username—which can be read as "Red Jack Co."—seems to suggest that this may be a shared account or otherwise one performing a role on behalf of a company or organization. If so, then it is important for you to declare as much and manage your conflicts of interest here according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines on it, which can be found here and here. If that is not the case, though, then you may want to consider changing your username to avoid such confusion in the future. —Nøkkenbuer (talk • contribs) 12:31, 26 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Nevermind, I see that it declared in the original post, but that part was removed as part of the redaction. In that case, then it is probably best for you to either request a username change if you intend to edit on this account further or abandon the account entirely (and create a new one if you want) in order to protect . For all we know, you may be an impersonator seeking to libel the company. We cannot readily verify your identity (please don't post anything here, it's all public!), and even if we could it would nonetheless violate our policies and guidelines regarding shared and corporate accounts and usernames.I can help you along the way through all this, though I am not an administrator nor do I have the user privileges to change your account username. Feel free to respond either here or on my talk page if you want further assistance. —Nøkkenbuer (talk • contribs) 12:43, 26 August 2018 (UTC)

Margrét Vilhjálmsdóttir
Dear Wikipedia My name is Margrét Vilhjálmsdóttir and it seems that someone made a personal Wikipedia site based on my persona some years ago. This have had serious consequences and I ask for your help to please close the site down or give my the opportunity to fix this in order to have the information about my carrier and professional live correct in respect of me and others involved. Warmth Margrét Vilhjálmsdóttir — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.225.189.53 (talk) 11:31, 26 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Margrét Vilhjálmsdóttir was created in 2007, has had very few edits in last few years, and gets 5-10 visits a day. More to the point, people who are 'notable' in the Wikipedia sense of that word do not have the right to not have a Wikipedia article about themselves. And are advised to not edit articles about themselves. One path open to you is the create a new section in the Talk page of the article (See "Talk" upper left, to get there), and there enter correct information with references to support the correct information. Doing that should lead to other editors inserting the correct information into the article itself. David notMD (talk) 11:52, 26 August 2018 (UTC)


 * That article has no references at all, and I have tagged it as such. The subject may or may not be notable, in Wikipedia's sense, but the article does nothing to establish whether she is. --ColinFine (talk) 13:10, 26 August 2018 (UTC)

TheWikiWizard
Hi all. I just started creating a Rival Newspaper for TheSignPost. Would anyone be intrested to join my newspaper? If you are please leave a message on the newspaper's talk page. Thank you. Thegooduser  Let's Chat  🍁  23:48, 24 August 2018 (UTC)
 * I love your initiative and enthusiasm, my friend. But do please be sure you're getting the balance right between home/school life and online stuff here. Take care. Nick Moyes (talk) 00:37, 25 August 2018 (UTC)
 * I'd personally prefer if you contributed to The Signpost instead simply for the sake of consolidated collaboration,, but I'll place the page on my watchlist anyway. I'm currently busy with a number of things, including at The Signpost; however, I don't consider it that I will contribute there, too, if there's work to copy-edit. I wish you the best, I suppose. —Nøkkenbuer (talk • contribs) 13:12, 26 August 2018 (UTC); edited at 13:13, 26 August 2018 (UTC)

Suggestbot
How do I turn Suggestbot off?

BigJoeRockHead (talk) 13:22, 26 August 2018 (UTC)


 * Hi! To turn SuggestBot off, you can simply remove the SuggestBot template which you added to your userpage and it will stop sending you suggested articles. Cheers, Katniss   May the odds be ever in your favor ♥  14:04, 26 August 2018 (UTC)

Are my own photos useful? How many photos should an article have?
I noticed that the photo here is a little blurry: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palaemonetes_paludosus

I may be able to get access to a decent camera and take a better picture of one of these little guys. Would this be useful for the article? How many different kinds of pictures would be useful? E.g. I could potentially try to take one for the main picture, one of a shrimp carrying eggs, one of a newly hatched shrimp, and maybe any other unique behaviors. Who knows, someday I could maybe even get a video of some of the shrimp hatching if I manage to catch them in time. Any advice would be appreciated, thank you. Ikjbagl (talk) 12:46, 26 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Hey Ikjbagl. The short answer is, very useful indeed. Looking at our sister project media repository, Wikimedia Commons, it looks like we have a category for Palaemonetes, but no category at all for Palaemonetes paludosus. So it looks an awful lot like, out of about fifty million free files we currently have, the image that is currently on the Wikipedia article is literally the only one of this species we currently have.
 * As to the English Wikipedia article, normally the amount of images is largely determined by how much space we have, which is determined by how long the article is. Although if we do have a collection of quality images of a high encyclopedic value, we can sometimes add an entire section of a gallery of images to the article. Having said that, even if we have images that are not currently used on the English Wikipedia, they are still valuable for Wikimedia Commons, because Commons supports all of our sister projects, including things like Wikispecies, Wikidata, Wikibooks, and also every version of Wikipedia in about 300 different languages. So just because an image isn't currently used here, that doesn't mean it won't be used at all. Commons also acts as a free media repository for the public in general. So these could also serve as an educational resource for lots of things, from students doing a class presentation, to someone writing a text book, to someone who is just really into glass shrimp, and wants to print out their own glass shrimp t-shirt.
 * So if you can, I definitely encourage you to contribute these kinds of images. Part of what makes all these projects work is that we each have pieces of our everyday life that may seem fairly mundane to us, but turn out to be super educationally useful for the general public. For example, this image I took when I went to college in this small town in Kentucky, was something lots of people drove by every day without thinking about it, but turns out, it was probably an image that the editors on the Urdu language Wikipedia article never ever would have been able to get if someone who thought it was fairly boring hadn't decided to upload it.  G M G  talk  13:03, 26 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Ikjbagl: as to specific images to get (especially since Wikimedia Commons is currently so lacking), it would be nice to have: images of males and females and juveniles, views of head, tail, dorsal side, ventral side, and left/right side, video of any behaviors (eating, mating, hatching). Obviously, some of these might be difficult, but this would be the ideal. Chris857 (talk) 14:52, 26 August 2018 (UTC)

I have created three new wiki pages, but they are not published yet?
I have created a Wikipedia page for American-reality star, Mehgan James. I have also created two for British soap opera actress, Jazmine Franks and Lauren McQueen. I have finished creating them but they are not published yet. Mehgan James' wikipedia page was declined but I corrected my mistakes, but it's still not up yet. The same with the other two. Why? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jordan2k19 (talk • contribs) 16:17, 26 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Hello and welcome to the Teahouse. Reviewing drafts may be a long process – there are over 3000 pending submissions, and when they are reviewed may vary from a few days to over two months. If a draft is declined, the best steps are to revise what the reviewer has marked for improvement. If you require further help, you may go to WikiProject Articles for creation/Help desk. Otherwise, while it is being reviewed, be patient and continue to improve the article! Regards, Rosalina2427   (talk to me)  18:10, 26 August 2018 (UTC)

Question about Reliable Sources, Editorial Bias, Neutrality, and Personal Opinion
Hi there. I've got a general question about assessing a source for reliability. Suppose you're dealing with a controversial topic, and a quotation is drawn from a generally reliable source (say the New York Times, or some major news organization). But it seems to you--it is your personal opinion, in other words--that the source in this particular case is not free of editorial bias. In such a case, is it appropriate to express your opinion on the talk page and try to persuade other editors of the editorial bias you think you see? Or is that somehow unacceptable? Thanks!Shinealittlelight (talk) 00:27, 24 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Hi, welcome to the Teahouse. Debating which sources are reliable/neutral and which aren't is completely fine on talk pages. For example, if someone were citing a New York Times opinion piece to support a factual claim without qualification, the talk page of the article would be the right place to contest that. (Of course, how you contest it makes a huge difference). There seems to be a vibrant argument going on at , which I haven't tried to read through fully. If that's what you're asking about, you'll need to be more specific if you'd like a bit of Tea on that specific situation. Whatever the problem is, it's not with the principle that debating a source's legitimacy is suitable for a talk page discussion. &rsaquo; Mortee  talk 00:52, 24 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Hi again. I wanted to thank you for your advice in the talk page for the Prager article. I think that's going to help a lot, and perhaps we will be able to reach consensus on how to improve the article. I've spent some more time with the pages on NPOV (and related pages), specifically the pages on biased sources. I have some questions about these policies and I'd be curious to get your take. Specifically, the policies suggest several ways of mitigating bias in sources, but nowhere in policy that I can find does it say that the suggestions are meant to be exhaustive. The methods of mitigating that I see in policy are: acknowledge a controversy and balance with other (appropriately weighted) sources, and use in-text attribution. So my first question is: do you think these methods are meant to be exhaustive? For example, could it ever be appropriate to mitigate bias by paraphrasing the statement in the source in a more objective phrasing that keeps the factual content while leaving out the editorial content? Or does doing such a thing itself always violate NPOV? Or can you think of other ways to mitigate bias that are within policy? My second question is: what are we to make of a case in which (let's say) there are very few sources on a controversial event or figure or topic, and what sources there are all seem to be biased in the same direction? (This is no doubt rare, but it seems clearly possible.) In such a case, would you think that the correct course of action is not to acknowledge or comment on the bias? (Obviously this second question is connected to the first.) Third, it seems to me that there are very often cases in which a controversy arises about whether a certain source is biased or not. It seems to me that, when there is disagreement among editors about whether a source is biased, each editor's opinion on the issue may well be a political opinion, and so the editors should express these opinions and try to reach a compromise. I feel like this is what came up in the recent controversy, and two editors who disagreed with me just thought it was totally inappropriate to express opinions in this way. But how is expressing political opinion to be avoided in such a case? So my third question is: am I wrong here? Ok, thanks! From what I can tell, you are a true voice of reason and a very nice person. I appreciate your help. Also: don't hesitate to tell me where you think I'm in error in what I've said above!Shinealittlelight (talk) 18:45, 25 August 2018 (UTC)
 * PS: I'm going to take a break from posting on the Prager talk page for a day or two, as advised in various policy documents. If you think that's not well-advised, please let me know.Shinealittlelight (talk) 19:13, 25 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Hi, you're welcome. I don't know how much I helped on the Prager page, but it seemed a little cooler, at least. I've not checked in today, but will do at some point. You've asked some good and deep questions here. I haven't considered them fully enough to do them justice, but here are my quick thoughts. I'll try to get back to you with something more considered. Feel free to ping me (u or re) here or on my talk page (probably better - Teahouse is better suited to simpler questions) if I forget to do that.
 * I doubt those two are supposed to be the only means of mitigation, necessarily. Re-phrasing purely factual claims is usual – many articles on non-contentious topics don't use direct quotation at all. Where we're reporting a source's position, though, it's particularly important not to misrepresent them, and direct quotation is often best. I'll try to think through that better, and ponder other approaches.
 * If the subject is controversial, almost by definition you'd expect there to be sources on both sides. Hypothetically, if only inherently biased sources from the same side were available, I don't know what could be done about that. Pointing out the bias without having other reliable sources with which to do so would be original research. Perhaps we'd have to just leave it all out.
 * Editors should be able to express their opinions about sources, but where that bleeds into giving opinions about the subject, it's typically unhelpful, particularly if it turns into a debate about the topic itself rather than the article. Our article Abortion debate, for example, wouldn't benefit at all from editors giving their view on the morality of abortion on the talk pages. What matters is our understanding of what the themes of the debate are and which expressions of them by published sources are the best to explain them. Still, there must be grey zones. Something like "As I understand it, X isn't essentially pro-Y, more anti-Z and Y-ambivalent, I'll look for sources later" don't seem objectionable (to me); "X isn't pro-Y, she's anti-Z", maybe too likely to start an "Oh no she isn't!"/"Oh yes she is!" situation. I'll try to consider this one further too.
 * Re taking a break from the conversation, I think that's a good idea for everyone most of the time. Slowing conversations down, replying after a pause, helps dialogue, I think. Not that I always follow my own advice on that score, but rapid-fire exchanges are the most likely to veer off course, so I try to avoid fueling them. I really appreciate you taking the time to think through the principles in this way, and discuss them. Thinking through the philosophical side of Wikipedia is fascinating, and easy to lose sight of down in the edit-mines. &rsaquo; Mortee  talk 18:22, 26 August 2018 (UTC)

How to create a map?
Hi guys, I would like to learn how to create a simple map, adding some colors to some countries, highlighting some cities etc. Where do I find a tutorial (or a tutor)? Thanx--Nievsky (talk) 18:34, 26 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Hello and welcome to the Teahouse. Is this a general question on how to create a map? If so, the Teahouse may not be the place to ask this, since this is a forum for asking questions on how to edit Wikipedia. You can try Reference desk for general questions. Rosalina2427   (talk to me)  18:51, 26 August 2018 (UTC)
 * There are some tutorials and resources for creating maps for Wikipedia at WikiProject Maps. –&#8239;Joe (talk) 19:12, 26 August 2018 (UTC)

Inserting key points in Wikipedia Article
When I include some key points or editing in the wikipidea pages what should I follow? I whether I should mention the references? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tudor Godwin (talk • contribs) 19:22, 26 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Always cite at least one professionally-published mainstream academic or journalistic source for any new information added to an article. Ian.thomson (talk) 19:24, 26 August 2018 (UTC)

သကၠရာဇသက္နုိင္ဦး
Myanmar — Preceding unsigned comment added by 37.111.5.133 (talk) 16:30, 26 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Hello logged-out person. We can't answer your question until you ask it, unfortunately. What would you like help with? &rsaquo; Mortee  talk 20:56, 26 August 2018 (UTC)

Creating a Template
Hi All,

I have created a new table which I want to turn into a template page (i.e. a page that can be referenced by other pages to import a pre created and populated table that might want to be used in more than one article), but I can't seem to work out how. How do I code something to be a template page and choose the name? Obviously I am aware it will have to pass all wikipedia conditions before being active.

Thanks

--Jopal22 (talk) 21:38, 26 August 2018 (UTC)


 * Hi take a look at HELP:Template. The talk page of that guide seems to be used for specific discussions so you can ask there if the guide page does not solve your problem. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 22:07, 26 August 2018 (UTC)

Complaint against user: Drmies
I would like to formally complain about several of the edits of the user. I see several examples of swearing at other users, using otherwise demeaning language, demoralizing and/or patronizing people who may in fact be good faith editors who are new to Wikipedia, and generally exhibiting conflict-inducing behavior that would be upsetting for the average new user to read and is not conducive to building an encyclopedia.

Below are some examples I have found of edit summaries displaying a rude, dismissive attitude; please examine carefully his edit descriptions, some of which he uses to swear at other users (at one point flatly telling a user to "fuck off"). Some of them may be relatively innocuous and may be me misunderstanding, but several of the edits are clearly inappropriate. I'm starting to see a pattern of inappropriate behavior through lack of civility.

For the sake of disclosure, I personally encountered this user when he began commenting on an ANI post I had made. It was probably not the right thing to do for me to make an ANI post at the time, but it seemed like what I was supposed to do, and one of Wiki's policies is supposedly to be "bold". I felt that this user was incredibly rude towards me for making the post (which I openly stated on the page) in the way that he commented on my post, telling me (at least twice) that I was "wasting people's time", saying "[Y]ou have contributed very little that I can tell, except that you raised the temperature and are wasting our time, you and that other editor both--not to mention all the other right-wing activists...", and he eventually accusing me of being a single-purpose account. I was personally offended enough by this person's rudeness that I stopped editing for at least a week and wasn't sure I wanted to start again. Here is a link to that discussion.

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents&oldid=853786883#Repeated_BLP_&_consensus_violations_by_Abecedare

Overall, this person seems to have an attitude problem in dealing with other users. Drmies has apparently forgotten that WP:CIVIL is one of the five pillars of Wikipedia, which is something I would think an administrator should have a heightened awareness of. I suggest that he be reminded of civility or be warned that failure to abide by WP:CIVIL may result in the loss of his mop.

I invite anyone to review the edit summaries which I have linked below.

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Ikjbagl (talk • contribs)
 * https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=2017_Las_Vegas_shooting&oldid=856428861
 * https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=2017_Las_Vegas_shooting&oldid=856429673
 * https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Indiana_Jones&oldid=856552644
 * https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Simon_Cox_(author)&oldid=856423189
 * https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Judy_Ward&oldid=856405696
 * https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Duncan_D._Hunter&oldid=856118869
 * https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Notoriousthug69&oldid=855665475
 * https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=1936_LSU_Tigers_football_team&oldid=855523216
 * https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Ann_Coulter&oldid=855517778
 * https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Bruce_Ohr&oldid=855411291
 * https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:89.40.124.99&oldid=854833580
 * https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Yo-yo&oldid=854829283
 * https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Get-rich-quick_scheme&oldid=854646533
 * https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Tony1&oldid=854604839
 * https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Adrian_C._Wilcox_High_School&oldid=854260328
 * https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Alexis_Bledel&oldid=854107280
 * https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Khattar_(clan)&diff=prev&oldid=853901381
 * https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Bill_Lee_(Tennessee_politician)&oldid=853620155
 * https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Helen_Mirren&oldid=853045082


 * , you've been here long enough to know where WP:ANI is and to know this is not the correct forum. Please feel free to delete my comment if you choose to remove this thread before someone removes it for you. power~enwiki ( π,  ν ) 22:48, 26 August 2018 (UTC)


 * I was yelled at last time I used ANI. If I am now being directed to post this there, I will do so. Ikjbagl (talk) 22:50, 26 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Probably because, if you even have a case, you'd done a poor job presenting it. Why are you hiding the context of the edit summaries?  There was nothing inappropriate here or here.  Are you the IP editor in question or something?
 * WP:Civil doesn't mean that we have to act like we're on Barney and Friends. We're allowed to point out when someone's doing something wrong, as seems to be the case in the ones I bothered opening before giving up.  I cannot begin to imagine a good-faith complaint about this edit summary.  Ian.thomson (talk) 22:57, 26 August 2018 (UTC)
 * I am not hiding anything, I posted all of the links that I am talking about and I thought it was a fairly decent list. What do you think I am hiding? I also said that I may have misunderstood some of the edit summaries and some may be innocuous (as perhaps the edits you mention are), but there are other edit summaries that are clearly inappropriate. I can't imagine that telling a user to "fuck off" is in line with WP:CIVIL. Ikjbagl (talk) 23:00, 26 August 2018 (UTC)
 * I can't say you won't be yelled at again there. If you're yelled at there, it will be because people don't think this is a concern (or think you have some ulterior motive to dislike Drmies), rather than it being at the wrong forum. power~enwiki ( π,  ν ) 23:01, 26 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Non-blatant diffs should be removed from the above list, or moved to another list of less egregious examples. I'd also suggest you talk directly with and ask him politely to be more polite and see how that works out before taking it to ANI. ANI is a terrible place, don't go there unless you have to. —  Insertcleverphrasehere (or here)  23:04, 26 August 2018 (UTC)
 * I agree. Some of these (on Simon Cox) are perfectly reasonable in context; the unsourced claim that a person is a keen Rugby Union watcher should be on Facebook and not on Wikipedia.  Others may be more worrisome (telling vandals to fuck off is not always appreciated); a list of 3-5 diffs would be more convincing that 20 diffs, most of which are clearly fine. power~enwiki ( π,  ν ) 23:10, 26 August 2018 (UTC)

Follow-up to Jenny Koller/Jenny Thomann-Koller
As my earlier messages conveyed: I need help in coordinating the reference numbers with the numbers in the text. The article Jenny Koller/Jenny Thomann Koller is in my name Htewarso. --Htewarso (talk) 19:18, 26 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Hi could you link to the draft? The only link I see in the earlier discussion is to User:Htewarso/sandbox, which doesn't have any content apart from the header. For referencing in general, see Help:Referencing for beginners. There should never be a need to write reference numbers in the text yourself, so there shouldn't be a problem with coordination. &rsaquo;  Mortee  talk 20:42, 26 August 2018 (UTC)
 * You put the draft in your User box (a not uncommon mistake for new editors). A better place is your Sandbox. David notMD (talk) 23:34, 26 August 2018 (UTC)

Move from 'draft' to publish after I have added sources?
Hi guys, I have created a draft and linked in sources. However I do not know how to move from the draft section to publish the article and link to other articles that are related. I was hoping you could advise me please? Thanks, Eoin — Preceding unsigned comment added by Eoikel (talk • contribs) 21:14, 26 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Hi, if you'd like to submit a draft, you need to add AFC submission at the top. However, Draft:Patrick Joseph Bermingham needs work before it would be accepted. Please read Help:Referencing for beginners to see how to make your references show up properly, and consider adding subsections. Also, please don't submit until you're confident Beringham will be accepted as notable (in Wikipedia terms) by way of either WP:NFOOTY or WP:GNG. Thank you for your work on the article so far. &rsaquo; Mortee  talk 21:30, 26 August 2018 (UTC)
 * I put the close ref (< /ref >) at the end of each ref, which cleared all the red, but still not right. See referencing for beginners. David notMD (talk) 23:47, 26 August 2018 (UTC)

Draft
How long that my draft become a permanent article? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Chhengly (talk • contribs) 07:59, 26 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Hello and welcome to the Teahouse. Your draft will be accepted and become an article if your draft strictly follow certain guidelines, such as the topic should be notable and be covered in detail in good references from independent sources (WP:N, WP:V). You may read WP:YFA for details. Regards ~ Abelmoschus Esculentus  (talk to me) 08:35, 26 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Hi Chhengly, in response to your question, the exact length of time varies for a draft to be accepted or declined. There is a huge backlog of drafts currently - over 3000 pending submissions, some of which are from over 2 months ago. Some drafts, particularly more obvious ones, will be reviewed within a few days of submission, while others may take several months. The best thing to do is just be patient and know that your draft will be reviewed eventually. I hope this answers your question.-- SkyGazer 512 Oh no, what did I do this time? 12:51, 26 August 2018 (UTC)
 * What the previous answers failed to mention is that your draft won't be considered until you submit it for review. To do this, you would need to add   to the top of the draft.  Before doing so, however, you ought to read about notability, and the advice at WP:Your first article.  You need to provide evidence of significant coverage in multiple published reliable sources.  While sources in languages other than English are permitted, you are likely to find that the review is delayed if the sources can't be understood by the reviewer; if you need to use non-English sources, it is recommended that you provide an English translation of the relevant text. --David Biddulph (talk) 01:02, 27 August 2018 (UTC)