Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2012 December 27



Template:Basic Instinct track listing

 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was Delete Plastikspork ―Œ (talk) 05:43, 9 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Basic Instinct track listing

This template duplicates what is already included at Template:Ciara and is redundant because the only songs which have an article are the three singles from the album, and are thus already included in the Ciara artist template. &mdash;  Lil_ ℧ niquℇ № 1  [talk]  21:03, 27 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom. Redundant to Ciara. -- Star cheers peaks news lost wars Talk to me 17:30, 28 December 2012 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Template:Fantasy Ride track listing

 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was Delete Plastikspork ―Œ (talk) 05:38, 9 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Fantasy Ride track listing

This template duplicates what is already included at Template:Ciara and is redundant because the only songs which have an article are the four singles from the album. &mdash;  Lil_ ℧ niquℇ № 1  [talk]  20:59, 27 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom. Redundant to Ciara. -- Star cheers peaks news lost wars Talk to me 17:30, 28 December 2012 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Template:Contra

 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was Delete Plastikspork ―Œ (talk) 05:37, 9 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Contra

Previously deleted (see Templates for deletion/Log/2006 April 29) template that essentially promotes discussion in another language, which doesn't seem appropriate for the English Wikipedia. BDD (talk) 20:06, 27 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Delete this is not a template pertaining to one of our Contra articles -- 65.92.180.225 (talk) 23:53, 27 December 2012 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Template:Underline

 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was no consensus Plastikspork ―Œ (talk) 05:36, 9 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Underline

was deprecated under XHTML, >but has been revived and repurposed in HTML5. — Gadget850 (Ed) talk 14:21, 27 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Keep. The template uses a span and css style, which is preferable to a raw tag. Mackensen (talk) 14:48, 27 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Why is CSS preferable? --— Gadget850 (Ed) talk 16:26, 27 December 2012 (UTC)
 * It's more flexible than a raw tag, especially a tag whose support is variable at best. I'm surprised it even came back. Whether we should really be underlining anything is another question altogether; I've no idea what the MOS says on the question. Mackensen (talk) 16:49, 27 December 2012 (UTC)
 * MOS:BADEMPHASIS --— Gadget850 (Ed) talk 17:03, 27 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Good point on usage: sampling, only Diff seems valid. River East Collegiate is quite odd, and there are camera templates such as Nikon DSLR cameras where the the intent is not apparent. Regardless of the outcome here, it should be removed from a lot of current uses. --— Gadget850 (Ed) talk 02:20, 28 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Let me expand a bit: per W3C: "The element represents a span of text offset from its surrounding content without conveying any extra emphasis or importance, and for which the conventional typographic presentation is underlining; for example, a span of text in Chinese that is a proper name (a Chinese proper name mark), or span of text that is known to be misspelled." Thus the CSS used in this template does not present the semantics of  as defined in HTML5. --—  Gadget850 (Ed) talk 12:45, 28 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Strong Keep Period. Or someone has to replace ALL uses !!! Be responsible ! Tagremover (talk) 15:19, 27 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Even if the TfD were closed as delete (which I don't favor) all uses would be substed or otherwise replaced, so your comment isn't helpful to the closing administrator. Do you have an opinion on the merits? Mackensen (talk) 16:19, 27 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Tagremover:You have made the same comment on various TfDs. As explained before, we don't simply delete a template and leave broken articles. There are several tools that we can use to migrate a template. --— Gadget850 (Ed) talk 16:26, 27 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Comment: Transferred:
 * removing the TFD notice from Template:Underline. The template works just fine when the TFD notice is surrounded by tags. Reaper Eternal (talk) 15:04, 27 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Please stop adding this tag. YOU ARE WRONG ! It does NOT work !!! Tagremover (talk) 15:08, 27 December 2012 (UTC)
 * PROOF: Template:Nikon DSLR cameras Tagremover (talk) 15:12, 27 December 2012 (UTC)
 * The template no longer shows the notice when transcluded, thus there will be little further discussion. --— Gadget850 (Ed) talk 16:26, 27 December 2012 (UTC)


 * Keep for when becomes deprecated in HTML6 (in HTML5 it is not used for emphasis). Underlining certainly has a legitimate use in quoting text containing underlining. Thincat (talk) 20:27, 27 December 2012 (UTC)
 * I presume the first is tongue-in-cheek, as the W3C has no plans for HTML6, but are still working on expanding HTML5. --— Gadget850 (Ed) talk 21:12, 27 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Keep I don't see any real reason to delete this template. </u> was deprecated, but that has nothing to do with this template. There are reasons to have text underlined, and in those cases this template should be used since CSS styling is the recommended way to have text underlined in HTML. --Odie5533 (talk) 15:11, 29 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Keep – Having or  is much more user-friendly than everyone having to remember and properly format the HTLM/CSS (or the proper semantic use thereof). <span style="border-bottom:2px solid #3FFF00; font-family:Impact, Times New Roman, serif; font-size:1.2em; color:#05260A;">Senator2029  leave me a message 01:15, 30 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Textbook MOS:BADEMPHASIS. "It is easier than manually underlining things" rather misses the point here, which is that we don't want to make it easy to underline things because we don't want people underlining things. If there are any cases where underlining is desirable then the underlining markup should be incorporated into a semantically meaningful wrapper template rather than this purely stylistic one. Chris Cunningham (user:thumperward) (talk) 10:48, 3 January 2013 (UTC)
 * I don't see why making it easier to underline things is not useful. Underlining is a stylistic choice, and probably should not be conveyed through semantic markup. --Odie5533 (talk) 11:53, 3 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Underlining should certainly mean something other than just a visual style. Underline imparts style, whereas imparts meaning. I started a discussion at Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Text formatting. --—  Gadget850 (Ed) talk 12:56, 3 January 2013 (UTC)
 * And we do not desire for our text to be tarted up with arbitrary styling which imparts no semantic meaning. Chris Cunningham (user:thumperward) (talk) 13:34, 3 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Useful usages: Interrogative mood, Sticky bomb (used in a quote), Constant sheaf. --Odie5533 (talk) 14:01, 3 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Sigh. We may, on rare occasion, want to make text 30pts large; we may, on rare occasion, want to make text with a bright yellow background. That does not compel us to create utility templates in wikicode for every such occasion. A major advantage of wikicode is being able to abstract away presentation, and that goal is hurt by adding purely presentational wrappers for use in rare cases where just using raw HTML works fine. Chris Cunningham (user:thumperward) (talk) 14:22, 3 January 2013 (UTC)
 * I do not think the average editor knows how to apply inline CSS to a span element. This template makes it easy for all and so is useful. --Odie5533 (talk) 18:56, 3 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Interrogative mood should use Asiantitle, which uses and language-related markup. Sticky bomb] can certainly use italics for emphasis, and such modification is compliant with [[MOS:QUOTE. Constant sheaf should use math markup. I have looked at a number of these. --—  Gadget850 (Ed) talk 19:50, 3 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Asiantitle uses the deprecated <u ></u> element and should probably be changed to use the Underline template. For Interrogative mood, I think underline would be a better choice given that underline uses styling instead of a deprecated tag. --Odie5533 (talk) 08:02, 4 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Ummm: as the nomination itself quite clearly states, <u ></u> has been un-deprecated in HTML5 with Asian titles specifically noted in the standard as a use case. Chris Cunningham (user:thumperward) (talk) 11:13, 4 January 2013 (UTC)
 * As to the issue of quotations: MOS:QUOTE states "Underlining... should be changed to italics." --— Gadget850 (Ed) talk 20:19, 6 January 2013 (UTC)
 * keep. I fully support templating function.  this template underlines text.  if the way in which we implement underlining changes, we need only change it in one place, rather than everywhere the html tag is used. Frietjes (talk) 16:36, 6 January 2013 (UTC)
 * commentIn the interest of transparency. --— Gadget850 (Ed) talk 20:09, 6 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Articles where I have removed the use of underline due to MOS issues: River East Collegiate, List of Disney animated shorts, Greater Armenia (political concept), Sticky bomb
 * Articles where I have left underline: Bhairavi (Hindustani) (because I don't understand the intent)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.