Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2012 June 26



Template:Kashmir separatist movement

 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was keep for now, seems like something which could be better addressed on the talk page of the template. Plastikspork ―Œ (talk) 21:51, 6 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Kashmir separatist movement

Every time I remove the POV stuff which has nothing to do with seperatisim it is reverted back in. The template is unfix-able due to this behavior. I have made my points on the talk page, they are roundly ignored. The template remains and always will remain POV and needs to go. Darkness Shines (talk) 15:47, 26 June 2012 (UTC)


 * Speedy Keep and close: this place is not to resolve content disputes, talkpage is (where no effort has been made about the current dispute). This nomination would violate WP:POINT and WP:IDIDNTHEARTHAT because it was kept on two subsequent nominations consecutively in a short period and that too recently. . -- lTopGunl (talk) 16:06, 26 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Delete per WP:TFD Earlier discussion were closed as no consensus as multiple editors had hoped that a discussion would improve the template. The template has been created to push a biased POV and any attempt to neutralize the POV has been reverted. -- D Big X ray  17:04, 26 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Keep This is the third time that this user has nominated this template for deletion, after two closes where the consensus was clear. If anything, the nominator needs to be reported and slapped a good block per WP:BATTLEGROUND.  Mar4d  ( talk ) 17:15, 26 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Both were closed as no consensus actually, and the first closer said renominate if necessary. Darkness Shines (talk) 17:17, 26 June 2012 (UTC)
 * The first close is a bygone era. Check the second time you nominated and the result is there for you again. In short, what you want to happen has not happened. Get over it and stop being a snob. This is for you: WP:TROUT.  Mar4d  ( talk ) 17:19, 26 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes it is there Closed as no consensus. So here we are again due to editors continually pushing POV material into the template which has no place there. Darkness Shines (talk) 17:21, 26 June 2012 (UTC)


 * Delete. The problem is, Pakistan sees the Kashmir conflict as a separatism conflict in which Jammu and Kashmir (Indian-administered Kashmir) allegedly wants to separate itself from India with Pakistani help. Thus, some editors following the Pakistani pov created the Template:Kashmir separatist movement and put it on every Kashmir or India/Pakistan war-related article. India and editors here following the Indian point of view, however, see the Kashmir conflict as a conflict of attempted territorial conquest by Pakistan using terrorist means and forced eviction campaigns of Hindus from Kashmir. The template in question, exclusively representing Pakistan's pov, cannot possibly conciliate and represent properly both point of views. Therefore, the template should be deleted. The neutrally named Template:Kashmir conflict should be worked with and expanded instead. JCAla (talk) 17:25, 26 June 2012 (UTC)
 * The template is neither Indian nor Pakistani, it represents the Kashmiri seperatists point of view. How many times do I have to clarify that?  Mar4d  ( talk ) 17:27, 26 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Some one needs to inform the previous two closing admins. -- lTopGunl (talk) 17:47, 26 June 2012 (UTC)
 * You wrote: "The template in question, exclusively representing Pakistan's pov, cannot possibly conciliate and represent properly both point of views."
 * My first question would be, how, exactly, is the template representing the Pakistani point of view? Since uninvolved third parties need to understand the concerns of the delete camp, I request someone try to explain this so outsiders can understand.
 * Why can't the template aid navigation to the articles on all parties to the conflict in a way that is fair to all sides? If a civil discussion were to take place, as to the names and scopes of the subheadings, and that civil discussion was truly deadlocked, the template could simply list all the parties with no subheadings.  Geo Swan (talk) 17:54, 28 June 2012 (UTC)
 * I guess an indication for the template name representing the Pakistani pov is this very discussion and who is for delete and who for keep. If this was not a pov issue, there would be no discussion here. ;-) But seriously. The template's very name propagates the Pakistani pov on the Kashmir conflict which is that the conflict is a "separatism conflict". The articles chosen in the template are meant to propagate Pakistan's pov and if they get removed by editors with concrete objections, they are edit-warred back into the template. Troublesome is the following, "keep" editors have not given up on trying to include terrorist groups, such as Lashkar-e-Taiba which conducted the Mumbai attacks, in the template. For information on Lashkar-e-Taiba see:

and have all the infobox content auto-generated based off the PAGENAME in most cases. if this ends up getting deleted, please at userfy for me for a short while so i can copy content. --﻿ΖαππερΝαππερ BabelAlexandria 21:04, 26 June 2012 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.