Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2012 June 9



Template:Simon Property Group

 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was Withdrawn, non-admin closure. Ten Pound Hammer • (What did I screw up now?) 20:43, 10 June 2012 (UTC) Unnecessarily large navbox, can be covered by a list article or category.  Dough 48  72  02:21, 9 June 2012 (UTC)


 * Simon Property Group


 * Keep First of all, the navbox has four articles that are pertinent to Simon Property Group, which are David Simon, Herbert Simon, Melvin Simon and Simon Property Group Headquarters. This number of articles in itself meets the requirement of WP:NENAN (which would increase to six anyway if a list were created).  There already exists a category for "Simon Property Group", which does NOT separate the malls by state.
 * People who are looking for articles about Simon Property Group malls in neighboring metropolitan areas across state lines (or even more distant malls) may find the navbox useful in jumping from one to the other (i.e. Chicago/Milwaukee, Baltimore/Dulles). This template takes away one step needed to jump from one mall to the other, and eliminates the need for "See Also" sections, a list, or a category.--Jax 0677 (talk) 04:31, 9 June 2012 (UTC)
 * The problem with the template is that there are too many Simon malls in the country to list in one template. The template is only completed to Iowa, and it already looks too large. If you want to list Simon malls by state, you can always create a list article such as List of Simon Proprerty Group malls. If that is the case, the navbox can be kept to navigate between the main Simon Property Group article, the headquarters article, the articles about the people associated with the company, and the list of Simon malls.  Dough 48  72  04:55, 9 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Comment The template could potentially be converted into a collapsable template, with one template per state (or one template per two states) under the main template (similar to "Whitney Houston honors" at the bottom of Whitney Houston). A list still adds one (or more) extra step(s) in navigating between articles.  In any event, I think the list should be created before the template is deleted.--Jax 0677 (talk) 05:01, 9 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Keep per Jax 0677 m'encarta (t) 11:22, 9 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Keep. The whole purpose of a navbox is to be inserted in all the related articles to allow you to navigate between them. A list just does not allow you to come and go and jump between them. This is exactly what a navbox is for. Secondarywaltz (talk) 14:33, 9 June 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm not saying this is a useless navbox, I'm saying it is too much to list every mall that is owned by Simon. They own 393 malls, and including all of them (along with other related articles) would bring this template up to about 400 articles, which is too large and unreadable for a navbox. Splitting the navbox by state is not a good idea either as some states (like Delaware) only have one mall owned by Simon. The best idea is to create a list article listing malls by state and keeping the template to navigate through a smaller set of articles by not listing every mall owned by Simon.  Dough 48  72  20:12, 9 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Keep The purpose of the template is fine, but 20 fields is just not enough — Simon owns at least one mall in nearly every state. Therefore, this template would have to be split into smaller navboxen by U.S. regions, then nested. Ten Pound Hammer • (What did I screw up now?) 03:10, 10 June 2012 (UTC)
 * If we are to have a navbox for Simon malls, the best idea would be to split it based on Census Bureau regions (based on this map). In addition, we can keep this template for the main Simon article, the headquarters, key people, and the list of malls (assuming it is created). Also, the current template has factual errors, such as listing several MD and VA malls as DC.  Dough 48  72  04:10, 10 June 2012 (UTC)
 * I have created sample navboxen based on the four main census divisions here. These four subtemplates correct errata from the existing template, and add a few mall names not already present (mostly redlinks, but there's nothing wrong with redlinks in a navbox; besides, most malls are notable). Ten Pound Hammer • (What did I screw up now?) 04:15, 10 June 2012 (UTC)
 * The sandboxes look good. If we choose to go this way, the main template can exist as I described above. It may help for each template to have links to the other templates at the bottom as a "See also" type of section.  Dough 48  72  04:22, 10 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Comment I agree with Ten Pound Hammer. Let's take the four templates shown and nest them under the "Simon Property Group" template (which should be placed on ALL pages relating to SPG).  Additionally, we should add "See Also" or "Related article" sections to each template (including the "Simon Property Group" template) listing the other regions.--Jax 0677 (talk) 07:27, 10 June 2012 (UTC)


 * I have moved the four templates I made to Simon Property Group South, Simon Property Group West, Simon Property Group Northeast and Simon Property Group Midwest. These are now bundled within the main Simon Property Group template. Ten Pound Hammer • (What did I screw up now?) 12:12, 10 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Well done TPH!!! Thanks for all of your hard work!!!  If no one objects, I would like to invoke snowball and close this AfD with the template that now exists.--Jax 0677 (talk) 14:33, 10 June 2012 (UTC)
 * The template looks more manageable in this format. I can support closure of this discussion.  Dough 48  72  19:30, 10 June 2012 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.