Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2012 May 22



Template:ASAP Rocky

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The result of the discussion was delete Plastikspork ―Œ (talk) 02:59, 31 May 2012 (UTC)
 * ASAP Rocky

only links two articles. 198.102.153.2 (talk) 23:36, 22 May 2012 (UTC)
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Template:I--

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The result of the discussion was delete Plastikspork ―Œ (talk) 03:01, 31 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I--
 * L--

redundant to more commonly used template:clade, which I used to replace these in the only article using them. 198.102.153.2 (talk) 21:09, 22 May 2012 (UTC)
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Template:FoP-USonly

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The result of the discussion was Keep Happy‑melon 16:38, 30 May 2012 (UTC)
 * FoP-USonly
 * FoP-US

Misrepresents US law and project policy, purpose unclear. 9carney (talk) 19:17, 22 May 2012 (UTC) Magog the Ogre has begrudgingly changed the law reference to 17 USC 120(a) yet the wording of the template remains defective: it goes on about the significance of the date December 1st, 1990 which is not even mentioned in 17 USC 120(a). The second paragraph is also defective because its wording ignores the possibility of freely licenced or fair use files. The innaccuracies of the text could easily be fixed but It's the lack of clarity as to purpose which is the biggest problem. some users have been mistakenly using this template in place of the correct non-free template for images of buildings in non-FoP countries. If this template carried a clear instruction that it was only to be used for buildings constructed in the US then it might be of some use. 9carney (talk) 17:54, 25 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Perfectly represents the law, please see Copyright in architecture in the United States -Nard ( Hablemonos ) ( Let's talk ) 19:44, 22 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Can you quote the part of 17 USC 102(a) which mentions photographs of buildings? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 9carney (talk • contribs) 19:53, 22 May 2012 (UTC)
 * 17 USC 120(a): " The copyright in an architectural work that has been constructed does not include the right to prevent the making, distributing, or public display of pictures, paintings, photographs, or other pictorial representations of the work, if the building in which the work is embodied is located in or ordinarily visible from a public place.". Magog the Ogre (talk) 19:57, 22 May 2012 (UTC)
 * do you see the mistake? 9carney (talk) 20:15, 22 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes I see it. So what? Are you seriously proposing the item be deleted because of a typo? (what's more, on a wiki?) Magog the Ogre (talk) 20:48, 22 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Keep The only mistake is that it says "17 USC 102(a)" instead of "17 USC 120(a)". A simple typo which is easily corrected. --Stefan2 (talk) 20:18, 22 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Do you agree with the statement to the effect that images of sculptures, paintings, or posters taken in the US must be deleted unless they are in the public domain, or their presence is incidental? Surely we tolerate thousands of such images here? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 9carney (talk • contribs) 20:27, 22 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Why, yes, we're deleting photos of US statues all of the time. See Commons:Commons:Public art and copyrights in the US for details on when the copyright to a statue expires. For deletion requests, see here and plenty of files here, for example. --Stefan2 (talk) 20:36, 22 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Keep. Why is "discussion" most of the time "deletion", aside from merge proposals? Anyway, photographs and buildings are different. Buildings, according to law, can be pictured, portrayed, or representated pictorially in any other way. Copyright of photo is separate from copyright of building. Photos and buildings are not treated the same. Why else are these tags nominated for deletion? --George Ho (talk) 20:54, 22 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Keep FoP-US is in-use on the commons and the template is useful for any photo that may be moved there. Not all countries have the same restrictions on photography and this template is used to discourage frivolous deletion requests.   Morgan Kevin J (talk) 00:51, 24 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Right, the date 1 December 1990 is not given in that law. I assume that a link to Architectural Works Copyright Protection Act should be added somewhere. The second "error" is that you haven't understood what the templates mean. They just tells that architects have no say in the use of a photo of a building in the United States, unless the architects themselves took the photo. FoP-US and FoP-USonly license the building and need to be accompanied by a second licence which licenses the photo or painting of the building. --Stefan2 (talk) 18:57, 25 May 2012 (UTC)
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Template:Constituent college

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The result of the discussion was delete Plastikspork ―Œ (talk) 03:06, 31 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Constituent college

replaced by template:for. 198.102.153.2 (talk) 18:42, 22 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Author agrees - this template was intended to encourage clarification linking for university colleges (as opposed to community colleges, high schools or dorms), where confusion is common and little explanation normally available, but this is just as easy with template:for. Philtweir (talk) 19:04, 22 May 2012 (UTC)
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Template:Consul Datebox

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The result of the discussion was delete Plastikspork <sub style="font-size: 60%">―Œ <sup style="margin-left:-3ex">(talk) 03:09, 31 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Consul Datebox

unused, except for a user sandbox. 198.102.153.2 (talk) 18:37, 22 May 2012 (UTC)
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Template:Contact-me
<div class="boilerplate vfd tfd-closed" style="background-color: #e3f9df; padding: 0 10px 0 10px; border: 1px solid #AAAAAA;">
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The result of the discussion was delete Plastikspork <sub style="font-size: 60%">―Œ <sup style="margin-left:-3ex">(talk) 03:09, 31 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Contact-me

single use template, redundant to other templates. 198.102.153.2 (talk) 18:35, 22 May 2012 (UTC)
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Template:Contact XMPP
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The result of the discussion was delete Plastikspork <sub style="font-size: 60%">―Œ <sup style="margin-left:-3ex">(talk) 03:10, 31 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Contact XMPP
 * XMPP

unused and probably replaced by template:User XMPP. 198.102.153.2 (talk) 18:33, 22 May 2012 (UTC)
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Template:Convergent evolution infobox
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The result of the discussion was delete Plastikspork <sub style="font-size: 60%">―Œ <sup style="margin-left:-3ex">(talk) 03:10, 31 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Convergent evolution infobox

was only being used in one article, where I replaced it with template:multiple image. 198.102.153.2 (talk) 18:25, 22 May 2012 (UTC)
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Template:En2bndigit
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The result of the discussion was delete Plastikspork <sub style="font-size: 60%">―Œ <sup style="margin-left:-3ex">(talk) 03:10, 31 May 2012 (UTC)
 * En2bndigit
 * ConvertDigit

unused. 198.102.153.2 (talk) 18:21, 22 May 2012 (UTC)
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Template:ConvertFile
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The result of the discussion was delete Plastikspork <sub style="font-size: 60%">―Œ <sup style="margin-left:-3ex">(talk) 03:10, 31 May 2012 (UTC)
 * ConvertFile

replaced by template:should be PNG, template:should be SVG, ... 198.102.153.2 (talk) 18:18, 22 May 2012 (UTC)
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Template:Baseball Hitting Stats
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The result of the discussion was delete Plastikspork <sub style="font-size: 60%">―Œ <sup style="margin-left:-3ex">(talk) 03:12, 31 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Baseball Hitting Stats

unused. 198.102.153.2 (talk) 17:08, 22 May 2012 (UTC)
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Template:BSACouncil
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The result of the discussion was delete Plastikspork <sub style="font-size: 60%">―Œ <sup style="margin-left:-3ex">(talk) 03:12, 31 May 2012 (UTC)
 * BSACouncil

unused infobox. 198.102.153.2 (talk) 17:02, 22 May 2012 (UTC)
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Template:BDInDecade
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The result of the discussion was delete Plastikspork <sub style="font-size: 60%">―Œ <sup style="margin-left:-3ex">(talk) 03:13, 31 May 2012 (UTC)
 * BDInDecade

appears to be replaced by Template:BDDecadesInCentury. 198.102.153.2 (talk) 17:01, 22 May 2012 (UTC)
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Template:BBC News World Divisions map
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The result of the discussion was delete Plastikspork <sub style="font-size: 60%">―Œ <sup style="margin-left:-3ex">(talk) 03:13, 31 May 2012 (UTC)
 * BBC News World Divisions map

old and unused. 198.102.153.2 (talk) 16:59, 22 May 2012 (UTC)
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Template:Infobox foremost royal claimant
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The result of the discussion was delete Plastikspork <sub style="font-size: 60%">―Œ <sup style="margin-left:-3ex">(talk) 03:13, 31 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Infobox foremost royal claimant

unused. 198.102.153.2 (talk) 16:37, 22 May 2012 (UTC)
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Template:Infobox Digimon organization
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The result of the discussion was delete Plastikspork <sub style="font-size: 60%">―Œ <sup style="margin-left:-3ex">(talk) 03:13, 31 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Infobox Digimon organization

unused. 198.102.153.2 (talk) 16:35, 22 May 2012 (UTC)
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Template:Infobox Country Special Olympics World Games
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The result of the discussion was delete Plastikspork <sub style="font-size: 60%">―Œ <sup style="margin-left:-3ex">(talk) 03:14, 31 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Infobox Country Special Olympics World Games

unused. 198.102.153.2 (talk) 16:34, 22 May 2012 (UTC)
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Template:Info ISO-3166-2
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The result of the discussion was delete Plastikspork <sub style="font-size: 60%">―Œ <sup style="margin-left:-3ex">(talk) 03:14, 31 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Info ISO-3166-2

unused. 198.102.153.2 (talk) 16:33, 22 May 2012 (UTC)
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Template:Infobox AFL
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The result of the discussion was delete Plastikspork <sub style="font-size: 60%">―Œ <sup style="margin-left:-3ex">(talk) 03:14, 31 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Infobox AFL

unused. 198.102.153.2 (talk) 16:32, 22 May 2012 (UTC)
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Template:Infobox AFL2 1969
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The result of the discussion was delete Plastikspork <sub style="font-size: 60%">―Œ <sup style="margin-left:-3ex">(talk) 03:14, 31 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Infobox AFL2 1969

unused. 198.102.153.2 (talk) 16:31, 22 May 2012 (UTC)
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Template:Infobox hot spot data
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The result of the discussion was delete Plastikspork <sub style="font-size: 60%">―Œ <sup style="margin-left:-3ex">(talk) 03:12, 31 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Infobox hot spot data

unused. 198.102.153.2 (talk) 16:30, 22 May 2012 (UTC)
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Template:Infobox mars hot spot data
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The result of the discussion was delete Plastikspork <sub style="font-size: 60%">―Œ <sup style="margin-left:-3ex">(talk) 03:11, 31 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Infobox mars hot spot data

unused template frontend. 198.102.153.2 (talk) 16:29, 22 May 2012 (UTC)
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Template:Gibson County, Indiana topics
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The result of the discussion was delete Plastikspork <sub style="font-size: 60%">―Œ <sup style="margin-left:-3ex">(talk) 03:11, 31 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Gibson County, Indiana topics

unused wrapper for two other navboxes. 198.102.153.2 (talk) 16:25, 22 May 2012 (UTC)
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Template:GiulianiTop
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The result of the discussion was Delete <b style="color:forestgreen">Happy</b>‑<b style="color:darkorange">melon</b> 16:33, 30 May 2012 (UTC)
 * GiulianiTop

old and redundant to current sidebar system. 198.102.153.2 (talk) 16:23, 22 May 2012 (UTC)
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Template:Gilbert&Sullivan opera
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The result of the discussion was Delete <b style="color:forestgreen">Happy</b>‑<b style="color:darkorange">melon</b> 16:34, 30 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Gilbert&Sullivan opera

old and unused. 198.102.153.2 (talk) 16:22, 22 May 2012 (UTC)


 * Delete per nom. -- Alan Liefting (talk - contribs) 19:35, 22 May 2012 (UTC)
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Template:Unsolved
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The result of the discussion was Keep <b style="color:forestgreen">Happy</b>‑<b style="color:darkorange">melon</b> 16:31, 30 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Unsolved

Not encyclopaedic and WP:NOTTEXTBOOK Gnevin (talk) 12:59, 22 May 2012 (UTC)


 * Keep - I disagree. WP:NOTTEXTBOOK suggests not providing leading questions with solutions, which this template does not do (in fact the whole point is that there is no solution). As for the unencyclopedic side of things, we do have categories for this sort of thing, but the linking to Unsolved problems in computer science beside the discussion of the problem is a useful one. --Michael Billington (talk) 06:07, 23 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Comment This is a relic of Wikipedia's past remaining essentially unchanged since 2005 while the rest of the project has move on leaps and bounds . We don't have random Did you know's in article bodies or ask the reader questions Which team won the 2012 Champions league in the Champions league . While I'm aware of WP:OTHERSTUFF, i've never seen anything like this used anywhere else in the project. Gnevin (talk) 08:53, 23 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Keep, even Strong Keep - Didn't we just have this discussion? I guess not - it was a year and a half ago. Still, all the reasons mentioned before that led it to be kept. WP:NOTTEXTBOOK is a policy meant to avoid the creation of lists of information, not a policy which prohibits an accurate and catchy way of describing a problem associated with the encyclopedia entry. What do people have against this template? Do we prefer our information only be listed in visually unappealing long-text form? Anyway, seeing as we apparently are just going to nominate it over and over again, I'll just copy paste my response from last time: I think it is helpful (it's helped me find my way to some very interesting pages while I was browsing - ways that categories likely wouldn't have). And yes it is unorthodox but I don't find it necessarily unprofessional (I would be glad to introduce the template to a society of important people!). In any case asking a question is a completely legitimate exercise if it is clearly meant to show that the question is unanswered: it is less clumsy and more attention-grabbing to say "Unanswered question: is the universe expanding?" than to say "Unanswered problem: whether or not the universe is expanding" (or worse, footnote without any graphics or font change: "Category:Unanswered problems in Physics"). Magog the Ogre (talk) 09:07, 23 May 2012 (UTC)
 * While it is indeed correct that we don't include random DYK templates in articles, the difference is that DYKs are not linked in any way in the real world. "Unsolved problems in physics" is a tangible subject: we have a list article for it. What is also true from the nom, however, is that as of 2012 we have (finally) mostly standardised the way we present navigational templates into either navboxes or sidebars, and this is neither. So it is perhaps worth considering transmogrifying this into an actual navigational sidebar so that editors can browse around that most interesting of domains rather than having it be essentially a nutshell for the article they're already on. In fact, looking at the previous TfD (nearly two years ago), I suggested this at the time. That TfD was anything but a unanimous keep anyway, especially considering some of the non-reasons given in support of it. Chris Cunningham (user:thumperward) (talk) 10:12, 23 May 2012 (UTC)
 * To elaborate on that, the plan would be to create ten sidebars:
 * unsolved problems in biology
 * unsolved problems in chemistry
 * unsolved problems in computer science
 * unsolved problems in economics
 * unsolved problems in linguistics
 * unsolved problems in mathematics
 * unsolved problems in neuroscience
 * unsolved problems in philosophy
 * unsolved problems in physics
 * unsolved problems in statistics
 * These would duplicate the basic form of the list articles (links to the questions, but no summaries), with a link in the footer to the general list of unsolved problems article. Chris Cunningham (user:thumperward) (talk) 10:16, 23 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Good idea Gnevin (talk) 14:48, 23 May 2012 (UTC)


 * Comment: (Comment in response to User:Dbachmann, originally posted at Template_talk:Unsolved) I would argue that while the encyclopedia naturally should contain only encyclopedic material, some of what we do is purely for educational purposes that may not quite qualify as encyclopedic. Consider for example some of the material on Commons. Open questions in the sciences is an interesting dimension that merits certain focus. When I created the template I was thinking about the physical sciences, which tends to confine its questions to the realistic. The examples you give point to a possible flaw in this argument, but AFAIK no one has misused this template for example on the time travel article precisely because in physics the line between what is fantasy and simply unsolved tends to be rather clear. How "unsolved" may be misused in other fields is something I have not given any thought to - you may be right in that there may be a problem of misuse. Regards, -Stevertigo (t | c) 00:12, 24 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Comment: I am working on a superior version of this template, which might be more useful and less of a distraction than this template. Please see User:Toshio Yamaguchi/Template:Unsolved for the template and my sandbox for a test transclusion. The template is usually intended to be placed at the bottom of a page, similar to a navbox. -- Toshio Yamaguchi (tlk−ctb) 06:29, 24 May 2012 (UTC)
 * No offence, but I don't think replacing one nonstandard template design with another is a great improvement. If something is to be done about this template it should be to turn it into either a navbox or a sidebar rather than some other custom thing. Chris Cunningham (user:thumperward) (talk) 10:12, 24 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Converting the template I created into a proper navbox sounds like a good idea, although it wouldn't really function as a proper 'navbox', since it just lists open problems related to the topic of the article and usually wouldn't contain wikilinks. -- Toshio Yamaguchi (tlk−ctb) 10:29, 24 May 2012 (UTC)
 * How is User:Toshio Yamaguchi/Template:Unsolved 2? (See this test transclusion for how it looks like). -- Toshio Yamaguchi (tlk−ctb) 11:21, 24 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I don't understand what problem this is attempting to fix. It makes absolutely no sense to restate the problem that the reader's current article describes at the very bottom of the page, which one would presumably get to after having read the rest of it. Chris Cunningham (user:thumperward) (talk) 12:10, 24 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Moving it to the bottom removes a distraction from inside the article text. I think having this as a navbox is fine. Regarding some topics there are sometimes interesting notable open problems which could be stated at the end of the article in this way. -- Toshio Yamaguchi (tlk−ctb) 12:30, 24 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I don't think the problem is that it is a distraction as such: the problem is that it is pointless. All it does is reiterate the reason for the article: it's little more than an oddly-formatted pull quote or nutshell. Fixing that requires more than just moving it out of the way. Chris Cunningham (user:thumperward) (talk) 13:10, 24 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Keep - there's nothing wrong with this - David Gerard (talk) 18:38, 26 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Keep - textbooks only tangentally describe things like this. Nowhere near being a textbook.--Jasper Deng (talk) 05:26, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Keep - highlighting open problems seems like a pretty reasonable thing to do, I don't see what this has to do with WP:NOTTEXTBOOK. --a3_nm (talk) 14:28, 29 May 2012 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Template:Energy-civ
<div class="boilerplate vfd tfd-closed" style="background-color: #e3f9df; padding: 0 10px 0 10px; border: 1px solid #AAAAAA;">
 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was Delete <b style="color:forestgreen">Happy</b>‑<b style="color:darkorange">melon</b> 16:29, 30 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Energy-civ

Delete Unused template of unknown use. -- Alan Liefting (talk - contribs) 04:28, 22 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Delete it looks like a template for videogames or science fiction, so illustrates a fictional element overly much. If it were to be used for a real civilization (human civilization in toto), it could only be applied to a single instance, so should still be deleted. 70.24.251.208 (talk) 04:38, 22 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Keep, the Kardashev scale is a well-known and standard scale used heavily in both science fiction and science fact, with even human society receiving rankings (usually around 0.6 or 0.7, BTW). Makes sense to use this on various sci-fi pages. D O N D E groovily   Talk to me  06:44, 28 May 2012 (UTC)
 * delete, as it is unused. if we want to note the Kardashev scale in an article, we can do so in prose, or in a field in an existing infobox.  no need for a completely separate infobox for this task. Frietjes (talk) 15:45, 28 May 2012 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.