Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2012 May 24



Template:MATA lines

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The result of the discussion was delete Plastikspork ―Œ (talk) 04:59, 1 June 2012 (UTC)
 * MATA lines

template was blanked. we should properly delete it if it is no longer needed. 198.102.153.2 (talk) 20:26, 24 May 2012 (UTC)
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Template:Liga Chilena de Fútbol: Segunda División

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The result of the discussion was delete Plastikspork ―Œ (talk) 04:59, 1 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Liga Chilena de Fútbol: Segunda División

template was blanked. we should properly delete it if it is no longer needed. 198.102.153.2 (talk) 20:25, 24 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. &#9733;&#9734; DUCK IS JAMMMY &#9734;&#9733; 20:01, 29 May 2012 (UTC)
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Template:Justice Commandos Against Armenian Genocide

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The result of the discussion was delete Plastikspork ―Œ (talk) 05:00, 1 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Justice Commandos Against Armenian Genocide

template was blanked. we should properly delete it if it is no longer needed. 198.102.153.2 (talk) 20:23, 24 May 2012 (UTC)
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Template:Administrative divisions of the Thousand Islands

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The result of the discussion was delete Plastikspork ―Œ (talk) 05:01, 1 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Administrative divisions of the Thousand Islands

template was blanked. we should properly delete it if it is no longer needed. 198.102.153.2 (talk) 20:22, 24 May 2012 (UTC)
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Template:For more on Tchaikovsky's general musical style

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The result of the discussion was delete Plastikspork ―Œ (talk) 05:02, 1 June 2012 (UTC)
 * For more on Tchaikovsky's general musical style

redundant to template:for. 198.102.153.2 (talk) 20:13, 24 May 2012 (UTC)
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Template:Ft end
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The result of the discussion was delete as orphaned Plastikspork <sub style="font-size: 60%">―Œ <sup style="margin-left:-3ex">(talk) 05:03, 1 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Ft end

old and unused. 198.102.153.2 (talk) 20:12, 24 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Comment Template:Ft begin still exists, but Template:Ft start was deleted in 2010. Since this was copied from meta, I suspect it is the companion to ft begin since that's also from meta by the same user. 70.24.251.208 (talk) 05:22, 25 May 2012 (UTC)
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Template:Euro birth date and age
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The result of the discussion was Speedy Delete G6. Template was blanked over a year ago, without complaint during that time. No links in article space. <span style="font:small-caps 1.3em Garamond,Times,serif;color:#447744;letter-spacing:0.2em;">-Scottywong <span style="font:0.75em Verdana,Geneva,sans-serif;color:#772277;">| comment _ 17:01, 25 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Euro birth date and age

was a redirect to template:birth date and age, which was kept after Redirects for discussion/Log/2010 May 9. then, probably due to some backwards compatibility issues was basically blanked. given the age, I doubt we need to keep it around for old revisions, especially if old revisions won't work with it as a redirect. 198.102.153.2 (talk) 20:08, 24 May 2012 (UTC)
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Template:Etext
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The result of the discussion was delete Plastikspork <sub style="font-size: 60%">―Œ <sup style="margin-left:-3ex">(talk) 05:04, 1 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Etext

redundant to color and cquote. 198.102.153.2 (talk) 20:03, 24 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Delete no idea what this is supposed to be for. It hardcodes orange in a table. 70.24.251.208 (talk) 05:30, 25 May 2012 (UTC)
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Template:EP6 MEP image with label
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The result of the discussion was delete Plastikspork <sub style="font-size: 60%">―Œ <sup style="margin-left:-3ex">(talk) 05:05, 1 June 2012 (UTC)
 * EP6 MEP image with label

unused. 198.102.153.2 (talk) 19:46, 24 May 2012 (UTC)
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Template:Enod
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The result of the discussion was delete Plastikspork <sub style="font-size: 60%">―Œ <sup style="margin-left:-3ex">(talk) 05:09, 1 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Enod

duplicate of "done" with "done" in reverse. only used on one page. 198.102.153.2 (talk) 19:44, 24 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Comment it is not a duplicate. It produces a tickmark after the comment, instead of before the comment. 70.24.251.208 (talk) 05:35, 25 May 2012 (UTC)
 * What on Earth. Appears to be part of some elaborate joke on a WikiProject page. I'm inclined to undo the whole lot of that. Anyway, yes, this is pointless. Chris Cunningham (user:thumperward) (talk) 07:33, 26 May 2012 (UTC)
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Template:Endvotes
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The result of the discussion was delete per the deletion of Template:Votedecline, which was its companion. Plastikspork <sub style="font-size: 60%">―Œ <sup style="margin-left:-3ex">(talk) 05:11, 1 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Endvotes

redundant to template:end. 198.102.153.2 (talk) 19:41, 24 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Keep and redirect to end -- this matches the naming of other vote templates, so is useful as a redirect. 70.24.251.208 (talk) 05:36, 25 May 2012 (UTC)
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Template:Dáil Éireann Members Table Header
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The result of the discussion was delete Plastikspork <sub style="font-size: 60%">―Œ <sup style="margin-left:-3ex">(talk) 05:12, 1 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Dáil Éireann Members Table Header

unused. 198.102.153.2 (talk) 19:33, 24 May 2012 (UTC)
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Template:Dottymap
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The result of the discussion was delete Plastikspork <sub style="font-size: 60%">―Œ <sup style="margin-left:-3ex">(talk) 03:46, 31 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Dottymap
 * CHdot
 * FRdot
 * ZHdot

replaced by template:location map and template:site plan. 198.102.153.2 (talk) 19:23, 24 May 2012 (UTC)


 * delete much less flexible then the location map template. Requires a separate map for each municipality (2200+ in Switzerland and many more in France or China). Tobyc75 (talk) 19:53, 24 May 2012 (UTC)
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Template:Drilldown
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The result of the discussion was delete Plastikspork <sub style="font-size: 60%">―Œ <sup style="margin-left:-3ex">(talk) 05:12, 1 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Drilldown

purpose unclear. 198.102.153.2 (talk) 19:17, 24 May 2012 (UTC)
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Template:Declaration of financial interests of MEP is missing
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The result of the discussion was delete Plastikspork <sub style="font-size: 60%">―Œ <sup style="margin-left:-3ex">(talk) 05:13, 1 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Declaration of financial interests of MEP is missing

unused. 198.102.153.2 (talk) 19:14, 24 May 2012 (UTC)
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Template:Dashcell
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The result of the discussion was delete Plastikspork <sub style="font-size: 60%">―Œ <sup style="margin-left:-3ex">(talk) 05:13, 1 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Dashcell

unused. 198.102.153.2 (talk) 19:12, 24 May 2012 (UTC)
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Template:Cyrillic code positions table header
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The result of the discussion was delete Plastikspork <sub style="font-size: 60%">―Œ <sup style="margin-left:-3ex">(talk) 05:15, 1 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Cyrillic code positions table header

unused outside of a single user's userspace. 198.102.153.2 (talk) 19:09, 24 May 2012 (UTC)
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Template:CrossCountry lines
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The result of the discussion was delete Plastikspork <sub style="font-size: 60%">―Œ <sup style="margin-left:-3ex">(talk) 05:18, 1 June 2012 (UTC)
 * CrossCountry lines

unused, and trivial. 198.102.153.2 (talk) 19:08, 24 May 2012 (UTC)
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Template:Countryentry
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The result of the discussion was delete Plastikspork <sub style="font-size: 60%">―Œ <sup style="margin-left:-3ex">(talk) 05:18, 1 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Countryentry

unused outside of one user's userspace. 198.102.153.2 (talk) 19:05, 24 May 2012 (UTC)
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Template:CURRENTTIME UTC-4
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The result of the discussion was delete Plastikspork <sub style="font-size: 60%">―Œ <sup style="margin-left:-3ex">(talk) 05:18, 1 June 2012 (UTC)
 * CURRENTTIME UTC-3
 * CURRENTTIME UTC-4
 * CURRENTTIME UTC-5
 * CURRENTTIME UTC-45

unused and redundant to. 198.102.153.2 (talk) 17:38, 24 May 2012 (UTC)
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Template:Visual novel (Eng-t) top
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The result of the discussion was delete Plastikspork <sub style="font-size: 60%">―Œ <sup style="margin-left:-3ex">(talk) 05:19, 1 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Visual novel (Eng-t) top
 * Visual novel (Eng-t) row
 * Visual novel (Eng-t) bottom

old and unused. 198.102.153.2 (talk) 17:07, 24 May 2012 (UTC)
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Template:X-American-list-entry
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The result of the discussion was move to userspace Plastikspork <sub style="font-size: 60%">―Œ <sup style="margin-left:-3ex">(talk) 05:21, 1 June 2012 (UTC)
 * X-American-list-entry
 * X-American-list-start
 * X-American-list-end

unused outside of one user's userspace. should be userfied or deleted. 198.102.153.2 (talk) 17:03, 24 May 2012 (UTC)
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Template:Tributaryof
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The result of the discussion was delete Plastikspork <sub style="font-size: 60%">―Œ <sup style="margin-left:-3ex">(talk) 05:25, 1 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Tributaryof

unused. 198.102.153.2 (talk) 16:52, 24 May 2012 (UTC)
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Template:Heresies in Catholicism
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The result of the discussion was delete Plastikspork <sub style="font-size: 60%">―Œ <sup style="margin-left:-3ex">(talk) 05:26, 1 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Heresies in Catholicism

There is no good reason to privilege the Roman church viewpoint by tagging everything with which she has disagreement. Most early heresies are rejected by most major denominations, so there's no reason to associate them specifically with Catholicism; conversely, after the great schism and more particularly the reformation, one could just as well template transsubstantiation as an Error of the Church of Rome. there might be a neutral way to put together a nav template of heresies, but this certainly isn't it. Mangoe (talk) 01:11, 24 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I agree with the above comments. I could see a template on Early Christian heresies, which might include the various groups and individuals included in Irenaeus' work On the Detection and Overthrow of the So-Called Gnosis (what a title, huh?) and the works of some of the other early church heresiologists. Many of these groups are in fact known primarily, if not only, from their being mentioned in such works. But I cannot see why the template as it is currently structured should be used on any pages which directly relate to extant groups, as that would both be giving the Catholic perspective too much weight as per WP:WEIGHT and, particularly in the more recent eras, also probably violate WP:NPOV. Also, there is the concern as to how many of the so-called "heretics" to include. I am a Catholic, and I'm fairly sure most of the New Age religious groups violate one or more of the terms which have been used by Catholics to define hereies, and I can't see any way to include them all in a template like this. John Carter (talk) 01:21, 24 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I have already left my comments on the template talk:Heresies in Catholicism. They are substantially the same as the above. Unless, these objections can be met, the template may as well be deleted. Jpacobb (talk) 01:41, 24 May 2012 (UTC)


 * As I stated on the talk page there, this template pushes the issue beyond the limit. I mostly agree with the comments above. This is just going to cause friction among editors and not teach the reader anything of encyclopedic value. History2007 (talk) 01:47, 24 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Obviously per my comments when creating the template's Talk page, I agree the template should be deleted. I agree with John Carter that there may be some usefulness in a template about early Christian heresies.-- Jeffro 77 (talk) 02:06, 24 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I don't have strong feelings on the matter, but on the whole I think it would be better to delete it. Esoglou (talk) 06:31, 24 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Can the thing be renamed and salvaged? - while this looks like a straight copy from the contents list of the old Cath Enc there's some value in a template Early Christian groups which would segmentalize in chronological chunks everything up to the Reformation. As far as I know we don't have such a template, at least there wasn't one on these pages before this appeared. The later stuff, Reformation onwards is obviously highly POV, but there is some objectivity to grouping all non-Rome/Byzantium groups on a template prior to Luther. (btw, John "so-called Gnosis" is Paul's "knowledge falsely so-called", I guess you knew that) In ictu oculi (talk) 08:53, 24 May 2012 (UTC)


 * Ok, it looks like there are a couple of votes for plastic surgery and the creation of a new identity for the template under the witness protection program. So I suggest whoever wants to do that should create a new identity so we know what it would be like before agreeing/disagreeing. Thanks. History2007 (talk) 15:34, 24 May 2012 (UTC)


 * This template has no place whatsoever on Wikipedia. The article itself is blatantly a violation of POV policy, and the fact this travesty of a template is getting slapped on everything that Rome disagrees with is sad. Imagine if Protestants made an article that was "List of Groups we think aren't Christian" or added a template with those categories... This needs to go away.ReformedArsenal (talk) 21:39, 24 May 2012 (UTC)

I made this template as a way to help people find heresies condemned by the Catholic Church. I don't see how it or the article on heresies condemned by Rome violates any Wikipedia policies, especially since many of the heresies in question are contrary to Catholic theology - not Christianity in general - and since just because something is Catholic doesn't mean it is POV. I'm getting tired of Wikipedia users claiming everything Catholic is against Wikipedia policies. I find it to be anti-Catholic discrimination. But I can be wrong. Oct13 (talk) 03:32, 25 May 2012 (UTC)


 * Well, in a sense the Church of Rome's arrogation of infallibility is against Wikipedia policies. Look, here's the problem: so we put another set of nav boxes for Eastern church heresies, conspicuously tagging Chalcedonian Christological ideas as such. Then we tag the Immaculate Conception as an Orthodox heresy with another set of nav boxes, and tag transsubstantiation with a Protestant heresy nav box, and so forth. Of course all of these will appear on Gnosticism. Once we get all ten or so major theological traditions in, the articles will be cluttered with these templates. I can see some purpose to a category structure, assuming that it is realized that one set of categories would be "Errors of the Church of Rome identified in Protestantism". But this template would seem to me to be more appropriate to the Catholic Wiki, where it would not have to compete with all the other as-far-as-we-are-concerned-legitimate but contrary doctrinal systems. Mangoe (talk) 04:46, 25 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Oct13, Wikipedia isn't a Catholic encyclopedia. It is not 'anti-Catholic' to forbid pro-Catholic discrimination of other topics. If you don't understand why it is in inappropriate to label articles with the Catholic Church's opinion of those subjects, then you probably shouldn't be editing Wikipedia articles.-- Jeffro 77 (talk) 04:52, 25 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Oct13, would you similarly like the article on the Catholic Church to be weighed down by templates like Template:Groups Tim La Haye has called evil, Template:Theologies rejected by Martin Luther and Lutheranism (substitute in John Calvin and Calvinism, Thomas Cranmer and Anglicanism, and any other religious groups as well if you prefer), Template:Antichrists (you know the Lutheran Church Wisconsin Synod has said all the popes are Antichrists, right?) and others. I believe you would consider it a clear violation of NPOV if the Catholic Church article were weighed down by such templates, and the simple fact of the greater size of the Catholic Church does not mean that its opinions are somehow that much more important. John Carter (talk) 18:39, 25 May 2012 (UTC)


 * WP:SNOW: I suggest we view this a WP:Snow-ed issue as a "delete" and and move on. It is already starting to generate unnecessary friction within the Wikiproject, taking up effort that should go into improving articles. History2007 (talk) 05:30, 25 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Delete: I've spent a couple days trying to think of ways that the template could be used appropriately and I haven't come up with many solutions. The template has been added to (and removed from) a whole bunch of pages that don't even mention Heresies in Catholicism and that aren't notable as such. Also, as has been pointed out above, there's no reason to favor the viewpoint of the Catholic Church on something like this. As far as I can tell, there's not even a "Category:Heresies in Catholicism" yet, so why should there be a big bulky navbox to go around slapping on articles? ~Adjwilley (talk) 19:32, 25 May 2012 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.