Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2013 November 9



Template:Infobox sport horse

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The result of the discussion was merge Plastikspork ―Œ (talk) 18:54, 23 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Infobox sport horse

I suggest that we merge it with Infobox thoroughbred racehorse. In fact I think this one is just a duplicate of the other. Magioladitis (talk) 23:31, 9 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Merge per nom. We also have a third template for horses right now, Template:Infobox named horse.--eh bien mon prince (talk) 22:32, 10 November 2013 (UTC)
 * merge Frietjes (talk) 23:29, 12 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Comment. It may be that those three could usefully be merged. Have you notified the relevant WikiProjects? Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 23:20, 16 November 2013 (UTC)
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Template:Sources that relate generally to :Category:Buildings and structures in New York City

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The result of the discussion was delete Plastikspork ―Œ (talk) 21:52, 17 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Sources that relate generally to :Category:Buildings and structures in New York City

Basic violation of principle that Navigation templates do not provide external links to other websites. Fitnr 23:12, 9 November 2013 (UTC)
 * delete per nom. The sources in this template should be listed in relevant articles, or talk pages, or on the category page, or in wikipedia space of the relevant project(s). They don't belong in a navbox. -- NSH002 (talk) 00:48, 10 November 2013 (UTC)
 * delete Frietjes (talk) 23:28, 12 November 2013 (UTC)
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Template:Sam Brown

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The result of the discussion was keep Plastikspork ―Œ (talk) 02:40, 23 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Sam Brown

Two of the albums were redirected, leaving just one album and two singles, well short of WP:NENAN. I see no evidence that any other releases of theirs are notable. Ten Pound Hammer • (What did I screw up now?) 21:22, 9 November 2013 (UTC)
 * keep for now. I revived the April Moon article with some additional sources, and will work on it some more of the next few days. Frietjes (talk) 22:07, 15 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Keep, WP:NENAN is just an essay... written by the same nominator. Useful for navigation, no strong arguments given for deletion. Cavarrone 11:56, 18 November 2013 (UTC)
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Template:Same-sex legal relationships in USA

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The result of the discussion was delete Plastikspork ―Œ (talk) 21:56, 17 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Same-sex legal relationships in USA

This template is redundant due to Template:Same-sex unions in the United States, which is up to date and better designed, and the nominated template is not transcribed on any article pages. Dralwik&#124;Have a Chat 19:35, 9 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Erase it I made it and I directly kept the content of it in one of my sandox pages ... so deletion is OK for me, the creator. — Mimich (talk) 21:24, 9 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Delete per nomination. Fitnr 16:05, 10 November 2013 (UTC)
 * delete Frietjes (talk) 23:28, 12 November 2013 (UTC)
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Template:Stella Vine

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The result of the discussion was delete Plastikspork ―Œ (talk) 21:57, 17 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Stella Vine

Template is WP:UNDUE for a notable, but not tremendously important 21st century artist (in the headlines c.2004-2007). The template collects together a number of synthesised content forks and vaguely related articles (for example about her friend Cathy Lomax and sponsor Charles Saatchi. The remaining three main articles are under discussion for merger to Stella Vine, while Charitable work by Stella Vine has already been merged (following an AfD) and removed from the template. Sionk (talk) 11:58, 29 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Keep while merge discussions are pending: as things stand, it meets the "rule of five" yardstick for having five articles with a strong connection to Vine. It seems likely that three of these will be merged into the Stella Vine article, but there's no need to get ahead of ourselves. WP:UNDUE would be a problem if this template was being splashed across the Lomax and Saatchi articles, but that doesn't appear to be the case, it's only being used on the main Vine articles. --McGeddon (talk) 12:21, 29 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Keep per above...Modernist (talk) 12:45, 29 October 2013 (UTC)


 * keep if the other articles are not merged, but delete if they are merged. Frietjes (talk) 14:50, 29 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Update - another of the content forks has been merged to the main article and removed from the navbox template. Does that change things? Sionk (talk) 23:58, 6 November 2013 (UTC)
 * yes, I would say delete now since there is really only one "sub article" being linked. Frietjes (talk) 21:11, 8 November 2013 (UTC)

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 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.


 * Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Plastikspork <sub style="font-size: 60%">―Œ <sup style="margin-left:-3ex">(talk) 19:24, 9 November 2013 (UTC)

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 * Delete. Now that Charles Thomson, Stella Vine, and the Stuckists and Talks and collaborations by Stella Vine have been deleted or redirected, this template only has two articles about Vine (Stella Vine and Rosy Wilde). The other links are just galleries and magazines that she's appeared in. --McGeddon (talk) 15:23, 15 November 2013 (UTC)
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Template:TBTA
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The result of the discussion was delete since it is unused. If someone wants to actually deploy it, let me know and I can restore it. Plastikspork <sub style="font-size: 60%">―Œ <sup style="margin-left:-3ex">(talk) 02:39, 23 November 2013 (UTC)
 * TBTA

Used once, redundant to. Fitnr (talk) 15:25, 29 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Weak Oppose - This is supposed to be for bridges of the Triborough Bridge and Tunnel Authority I can't see why it can't be added strictly to those bridges and tunnels with or without Template:NYC Bridge. -User:DanTD (talk) 13:40, 31 October 2013 (UTC)

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 * delete, redundant navigation. Frietjes (talk) 21:13, 8 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.


 * Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Plastikspork <sub style="font-size: 60%">―Œ <sup style="margin-left:-3ex">(talk) 19:22, 9 November 2013 (UTC)

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Template:Years at the European Track Championships
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The result of the discussion was delete Plastikspork <sub style="font-size: 60%">―Œ <sup style="margin-left:-3ex">(talk) 21:58, 17 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Years at the European Track Championships
 * Years at the European Road Championships
 * Years at the UCI Road World Championships
 * Years at the UCI Track World Championships

unused. Frietjes (talk) 14:34, 9 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Delete. I created this template, and was made for articles like Netherlands at the European Track Championships, but now a general template is used. Sander.v.Ginkel (talk) 08:48, 11 November 2013 (UTC)
 * More templates: The same for (I added them): template:Years at the European Road Championships, template:Years at the UCI Road World Championships, template:Years at the UCI Track World Championships Sander.v.Ginkel (talk) 08:48, 11 November 2013 (UTC)
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Template:Index category
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The result of the discussion was moved and marked historical Plastikspork <sub style="font-size: 60%">―Œ <sup style="margin-left:-3ex">(talk) 22:14, 17 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Index category

This template is part of a failed proposal at Category_types, and isn't currently used nor needed. Obi-Wan Kenobi (talk) 06:21, 9 November 2013 (UTC)
 * While this proposal did not catch on, I think the issues raised are still valid, and anyone interested in the history of categorization at wikipedia and the issues that came up might be interested in seeing the proposal and the templates that went with it. Deleting all of them makes all the discussions meaningless because you would not understand what was being proposed.  For that reason,  I would request that they all be kept for historical purposes. -- &#x2611; Sam uelWantman  08:32, 9 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Sam, if you want the text of the templates preserved, you could subst-all of them, then the text would still exist within the proposal.


 * move to a subpage of Category types and mark as historical. Frietjes (talk) 14:35, 9 November 2013 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure if you can do that - can you have templates as a sub-page in wiki-space? I'd be fine with that as well, as long as they weren't useable as templates anymore (I suggesting using subst - above).--Obi-Wan Kenobi (talk) 23:42, 12 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Actually, basically any page can be transcluded or substituted, but template space is more convenient for this. So, this could have a deterrent effect. <tt>-PC-XT+</tt> 10:52, 15 November 2013 (UTC)


 * Move per Frietjes <tt>-PC-XT+</tt> 10:52, 15 November 2013 (UTC)
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Template:Sub category
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The result of the discussion was moved and marked historical Plastikspork <sub style="font-size: 60%">―Œ <sup style="margin-left:-3ex">(talk) 22:14, 17 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Sub category

This template is part of a failed proposal at Category_types, and isn't currently used nor needed. Obi-Wan Kenobi (talk) 06:21, 9 November 2013 (UTC)
 * delete Frietjes (talk) 23:27, 12 November 2013 (UTC)
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Template:Intersection
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The result of the discussion was moved and marked historical Plastikspork <sub style="font-size: 60%">―Œ <sup style="margin-left:-3ex">(talk) 22:14, 17 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Intersection

This template is part of a failed proposal at Category_types, and isn't currently used nor needed. Obi-Wan Kenobi (talk) 06:21, 9 November 2013 (UTC)
 * delete Frietjes (talk) 23:27, 12 November 2013 (UTC)
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Template:Nav category
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The result of the discussion was moved and marked historical Plastikspork <sub style="font-size: 60%">―Œ <sup style="margin-left:-3ex">(talk) 22:14, 17 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Nav category

This template is part of a failed proposal at Category_types, and isn't currently used nor needed. Obi-Wan Kenobi (talk) 06:21, 9 November 2013 (UTC)
 * delete Frietjes (talk) 23:27, 12 November 2013 (UTC)
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Template:Subject category
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The result of the discussion was moved and marked historical Plastikspork <sub style="font-size: 60%">―Œ <sup style="margin-left:-3ex">(talk) 22:15, 17 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Subject category

This template is part of a failed proposal at Category_types, and isn't currently used nor needed. Obi-Wan Kenobi (talk) 06:21, 9 November 2013 (UTC)
 * delete Frietjes (talk) 23:26, 12 November 2013 (UTC)
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Template:Topic category
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The result of the discussion was moved and marked historical Plastikspork <sub style="font-size: 60%">―Œ <sup style="margin-left:-3ex">(talk) 22:15, 17 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Topic category

Per Set category nomination, this template is part of a failed proposal Category_types, and isn't currently used nor needed. Obi-Wan Kenobi (talk) 06:14, 9 November 2013 (UTC)
 * delete Frietjes (talk) 23:26, 12 November 2013 (UTC)
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Template:NBATeam
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The result of the discussion was delete Plastikspork <sub style="font-size: 60%">―Œ <sup style="margin-left:-3ex">(talk) 21:50, 17 November 2013 (UTC)
 * NBATeam

This template is used to standardize external links to the official website of NBA teams. However, these links can be sufficiently standardized with more general Template:official website. Jweiss11 (talk) 05:48, 9 November 2013 (UTC)
 * delete Frietjes (talk) 23:26, 12 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Delete No page is using the template currently.—Bagumba (talk) 04:28, 15 November 2013 (UTC)
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NFL Championship Navigation Boxes
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The result of the discussion was delete Plastikspork <sub style="font-size: 60%">―Œ <sup style="margin-left:-3ex">(talk) 21:48, 17 November 2013 (UTC)
 * BearsBox
 * ColtsBox
 * PackersBox

These three templates are used to roll up a series of succession boxes and navboxes indicating championships won by each of three NFL teams. Each of these templates had been used in one instance in the mainspace, at Chicago Bears, Indianapolis Colts, and Green Bay Packers, respectively. As part of a larger clean-up of the footers of NFL team articles, I have removed such succession boxes and navboxes from those pages, as they were redundant and not specifically related to the subject of those articles, but rather more appropriate for inclusion on specific team year articles (e.g. 1985 Chicago Bears season and biography articles for relevant players and coaches. Furthermore, given that these three nominated templates were used only in one instance, they were unnecessary, even if that content was needed. Jweiss11 (talk) 05:20, 9 November 2013 (UTC)
 * delete all 3 per very clear reasoning by nom. --NSH002 (talk) 14:16, 10 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Delete per nomination. Fitnr 16:04, 10 November 2013 (UTC)
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Template:Set category
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The result of the discussion was no consensus Plastikspork <sub style="font-size: 60%">―Œ <sup style="margin-left:-3ex">(talk) 02:38, 23 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Set category
 * Note: See related category deletion discussion at Categories_for_discussion/Log/2013_November_12

We have likely tens of thousands of set categories. There is a general approach, which is set categories have plural names, like or, so we don't need an additional template to note that a category is a set category. This template is part of a failed scheme (see Category_types), and I wouldn't want to see it implemented at scale in any case- we don't to tag thousands of categories. I think we should delete it and the associated category: Category:Set_categories, which currently contains 39 elements, since its creation 2 years ago - further evidence that this scheme hasn't taken off. Obi-Wan Kenobi (talk) 05:05, 9 November 2013 (UTC)
 * This was not part of the proposal at Category_types. -- &#x2611; Sam uelWantman  08:29, 9 November 2013 (UTC)
 * True, I guess it was more of a reaction to it. In any case, I don't think it's a good idea, to label set categories nor topic categories - we simply have too many.--Obi-Wan Kenobi (talk) 02:31, 10 November 2013 (UTC)


 * Keep. I have seen too many articles inappropriately placed in set categories (e.g., a topic article about "X in Y" in a set category for "Yian Xers") to agree that this is not useful or even necessary. The details and scope of its implementation can be discussed, but I very much consider this to be a useful notice and would be glad to see it used much more. -- Black Falcon (talk) 19:42, 17 November 2013 (UTC)
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WikiAfrica subpages
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The result of the discussion was no consensus to delete. I have deleted the unused one since it is clearly redundant. The defenders of the templates might like to consider redesigning them to match other talk page templates, or perhaps folding them into the WikiProject. DrKiernan (talk) 09:03, 10 December 2013 (UTC)
 * WikiAfrica/Artgate
 * WikiAfrica/Chimurenga
 * WikiAfrica/Festival Milano
 * WikiAfrica/Festival de Cine Africano de Tarifa
 * WikiAfrica/Griot
 * WikiAfrica/Hip-hop
 * WikiAfrica/NABA
 * WikiAfrica/Share Your Knowledge
 * WikiAfrica/doual'art
 * WikiAfrica/lettera27

Templates imply that editing has been carried out by groups or entities ("Doual'art", "Lettera27") rather than by individual editors, raising concerns about WP:NOSHARING and WP:COI. Their only purpose appears to be to provide publicity within Wikipedia for those entities or for WikiAfrica itself. Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 20:49, 9 November 2013 (UTC)
 * WikiAfrica is a wikiproject, it is not a brand or a company or not even a non profit institution. It is a wikiproject focused on increasing the quality and quantity of African content on Wikipedia. We used the templates in 2 ways: 1. to monitor content related to the wikiproject (a common practice) and 2. to attribute contend related to specific institutions (this is actually an important and legal issue; in several cases you can find the OTRS ticket in the template. I am not aware that you can just remove ticket numbers). We can shrink the description in the template (i think it would be even better to make it much smaller. the advantage of the template structure you are delating was exactly to be able to make modifications at once). --Iopensa (talk) 21:37, 9 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Except that as far as anyone can see it isn't a WikiProject. It isn't listed here. There is already a WikiProject for Africa, which focuses on improving the quality of content relating to that continent. It is WikiProject Africa. Was a WikiProject proposal made for WikiAfrica, as is strongly recommended (but not required)? What WikiAfrica actually appears to be is a kind of pressure group, here to promote the interests of a few organisations which have in common that the editors involved in WikiAfrica are also involved in them. Why exactly do we need an advertisement for a private art school in Milan ("Nuova Accademia di Belle Arti Milano students participated in creating or improving this article") on a few talk pages here? I happen to be an alumnus of Oxford University, the School of Oriental and African Studies and the Open University; I don't go round putting a template that says "Oxford University students edited this article" on the talkpage of every article I edit. Could there be any connection between that advertisement for NABA and the fact that you teach there? Enough of this, if it is to be continued it should probably be at WP:COIN, where you have very properly asked for comment.
 * The problem with these templates which I see as unfixable by editing is that they imply that edits have been made by a group or collective entity, when such edits are against policy here. How can a film festival in Tarifa edit Wikipedia? It can't. It's deceptive to suggest that it has done so. Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 23:03, 9 November 2013 (UTC)
 * I added to my talk page a reference to NABA and their involvement in contributing (sorry, I forgot it before).
 * The article with the Tarifa film festival template have been created by using content from the Tarifa film festival (the text is from the institution; content under cc by sa). here (it is Italian sorry but i think you can get the sense) you find how and where we used content (in particular related to Africa) from institutions. The template is meant to attribute the work (with a reference to the license and eventually the OTRS ticket number) and to monitor it, as I already explained. here the list of institutions we involved and the case studies available; here a report on the approach we used. Please do not hesitate to ask if there is any issue which is not properly clarified. --Iopensa (talk) 22:35, 10 November 2013 (UTC)


 * Keep If I am understanding the situation properly, this nomination is quite misconceived. There is no prohibition at all on editing in a collaborative manner. The prohibition is on shared accounts and with usernames which are promotional. Are there any invalid usernames? These templates are used on talk pages to indicate the involvement of a group of editors and sometimes to record OTRS permission. This is a laudable thing to do. If there is a problem with WikiAfrica/Share Your Knowledge, please raise the matter elsewhere, I suggest Wikipedia talk:WikiAfrica in the first instance. Thincat (talk) 13:40, 10 November 2013 (UTC)
 * I have now come across a NYB "speedy keep" of Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Wikipedia:WikiAfrica of about a year ago. Also, we shouldn't be deleting OTRS notices as, for example, here. Thincat (talk) 14:37, 10 November 2013 (UTC)
 * I have informed here. Thincat (talk) 15:04, 10 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Sorry, it's me again. I see following this recent TfD, deleted a number of "WikiAfrica" templates, some of which don't look to have been subpages of Template:WikiProject WikiAfrica. I am not able to follow what has been happening. Thincat (talk) 15:31, 10 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Template:WikiAfrica was a redirect to Template:WikiProject WikiAfrica. The only subtemplates which were deleted were ones with zero transclusions.  I can certainly restore any that you plan to use per WP:REFUND, but they were unused. Thanks! Plastikspork <sub style="font-size: 60%">―Œ <sup style="margin-left:-3ex">(talk)  20:29, 10 November 2013 (UTC)
 * I understand now. That is fine. I'm lurker with no involvement in WikiAfrica. Thincat (talk) 20:39, 10 November 2013 (UTC)


 * Comment - I'm not sure of the keep reasoning. Consensus has been that attribution should be placed in edit summaries so that it is available with the rest of the attribution information in the article history, rather than article or talk pages themselves. If the main reason these templates are kept is attribution, they should be deprecated with a notice telling how to use edit summaries for attribution, instead, per Templates_for_discussion/Log/2010_March_20 and the more recent Templates_for_discussion/Log/2013_September_16 <tt>-PC-XT+</tt> 11:25, 15 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Reply to : You may be right that this nomination is misconceived; I think the purpose of this discussion is to establish exactly whether or not that is the case. I'm in full agreement that that collaborative editing within Wikipedia is not prohibited; it is in fact strongly encouraged. However when the collaboration is off-wiki and undisclosed I'm considerably less than convinced that the same applies. These templates were created by two editors, and . If those editors are acquainted in real life, as seems probable, then their contributions invite scrutiny (please note that I'm not making any kind of accusation here).  has an evident COI with doual'art, for which she is a freelance consultant, with Lettera27, which she founded, and with NABA where she teaches or has taught. With respect, I do not believe that giving a free puff to a private art school in Milan just because a student there has made an edit here is a laudable thing to do, or in any way in accordance with the policies and practices of this wiki. It's my opinion that these templates were misconceived when they were created, and should now be deleted forthwith. Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 23:14, 16 November 2013 (UTC)
 * I understand there may be promotional aspects to all this but does removing the templates in any way help? It seems to me it merely reduces the visibility of the matter and actually goes against the editors' attempts at some transparency. And somewhat similar talk page notices are indeed used, for example Connected contributor. Do you really think it would be wise to remove the OTRS notice at WikiAfrica/doual'art or helpful to remove the note of student involvement at WikiAfrica/NABA? Templates like Course_assignment (used here) are a benefit. Thincat (talk) 23:40, 16 November 2013 (UTC)
 * BTW I started looking into things but came to realise I would never get to the bottom of what has been going on. Certainly real life relationships are involved and not all of them are friendships. Here is an interesting discussion. Thincat (talk) 00:05, 17 November 2013 (UTC)
 * First, thanks to for balanced and rational analysis, responses and questions here. Some replies: no, I don't think it would be appropriate to remove the OTRS notice from  WikiAfrica/doual'art until every article it is used on has been gone through and the "contributed" content either removed or rewritten in other words, after which it can be cited in the same way as any other source, as indeed it could have been right from the start if normal Wikipedia practices had been followed. Yes, I think WikiAfrica/NABA should be deleted forthwith; as you rightly point out, we already have perfectly good general-purpose templates for course assignments. While the value of those assignments to the encyclopaedia is doubtful, it is at least acknowledged that the students have attempted to contribute to this project. The NABA template reads "Template which can be used in the talk pages of articles to akwnowledge [sic] the contribution of NABA students to WikiAfrica". So what? WikiAfrica is one of Ms Pensa's projects; it really doesn't matter here whether some of her students have contributed to it or not. Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 00:38, 29 November 2013 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.