Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2014 July 28



Template:Nosubst2

 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was delete Plastikspork ―Œ (talk) 05:40, 7 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Nosubst2

Created just under a week ago; zero transclusions, unclear purpose (no documentation). It appears to be a template that transcludes a template, the name of which is specified in the first (only) positional parameter. It may have no point either: using e.g. (without further parameters) is exactly the same as using  (without parameters) but takes slightly longer to parse. A definite disadvantage is that if parameters are specified, they are not passed through, so behaves as if it were undated. Red rose64 (talk) 20:25, 28 July 2014 (UTC)


 * It appears as a signature transclusion. If when you signed it with 4 tildes it should replace with a signature template to stop signing much character that copied from a template. -- Allen talk 20:39, 28 July 2014 (UTC)


 * Delete - It was created as a consequence of the umpteenth failure to understand WP:SIG. Allen is also an editor on wikis hosted by Wikia, where the usual rule is that signatures should be templated because it reduces the amount of code in the source to a minimum. TFD surely isn't the place to discuss an editor's communication barriers, but I felt the information was relevant to clearing up why this template was created. moluɐɯ 21:38, 28 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Delete as against WP:SIG. This creates targets for vandalism. Even if we had a protected template which only transcluded protected signature templates, bots would need to be able to read the transclusions to tell they are signatures, and all the talk pages an editor signs would require updating every time the transcluded template they use is updated. —PC-XT+ 23:32, 29 July 2014 (UTC) 23:36, 29 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Why has WP:SIG not been made a policy? This template would be WP:T2-eligible then. — Keφr 06:40, 2 August 2014 (UTC)
 * I don't know, but I suppose we can use G4 after this... —PC-XT+ 22:22, 2 August 2014 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Template:!

 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was soft redirect Plastikspork ―Œ (talk) 05:43, 7 August 2014 (UTC)

Unused. — Keφr 10:18, 28 July 2014 (UTC)


 *  Support Soft redirect  - It's a magic word now, and I can't think of any consequences, especially if every page is "officially" using the magic word now as evident from WLH. Per Frietjes. It would probably prevent any confusion as to why one of the most important templates was deleted. moluɐɯ 12:50, 28 July 2014 (UTC) 21:48, 28 July 2014 (UTC)
 * soft redirect? this is what has been done with many other magic words. Frietjes (talk) 17:15, 28 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Category:Magic word templates suggests otherwise. — Keφr 06:06, 2 August 2014 (UTC)
 * "Many" may not be the best word, but there are 5+ magic words in Category:Wikipedia soft redirected templates. moluɐɯ 14:17, 3 August 2014 (UTC)
 * I suppose Category:Magic word templates would be inappropriate for redirects, but why not Category:Magic word soft redirects? Both could be in some kind of magic word category. Maybe better, just use the magic word category and catscan... This would keep them together, away from other soft redirects, for instance. —PC-XT+ 21:52, 3 August 2014 (UTC)
 * comment the documentation should be kept. If this is softredirected, the softredirect should carry documentation about how to use it, same as now. -- 65.94.169.222 (talk) 04:04, 29 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Keep or soft redirect, the documentation is useful, and helpful, and lets Wikipedian editors learning wikicode from our templates understand this. -- 65.94.169.222 (talk) 04:04, 29 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Soft redirect, keeping edit history and full protection (for template editors, anyways). There is some interesting Wiki-history here. =) —Locke Cole • t • c 12:22, 29 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Soft redirect to what? — Keφr 12:35, 29 July 2014 (UTC)
 * To mw:Help:Magic words moluɐɯ 14:02, 29 July 2014 (UTC)
 * ^^^ This. —Locke Cole • t • c 17:26, 30 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Soft redirect or at least link to mw:Help:Magic words in the documentation —PC-XT+ 23:46, 29 July 2014 (UTC) Make it like the templates in Category:Magic word templates, and add it to that category. —PC-XT+ 20:54, 2 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Query - if this was deleted, and then some vandal recreated it at some point with poop or similar, which would take priority? The Magic Word or the Template? If the latter, then this needs to be kept. Optimist on the run (talk) 22:07, 1 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Magic word, otherwise we would have a much higher transclusion count here. Transclusions can only come from constructs like or through redirects, so they would be (most likely) erroneous anyway . Also, create-protection is a thing. — Keφr 06:06, 2 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Post notes on the template documentation, VPT, and other fairly visible locations about this change; Keep for six months while people adjust; and then Soft Redirect to mw:Help:Magic words. — &#123;&#123;U&#124;Technical 13&#125;&#125; (e • t • c) 23:18, 2 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Bureaucracy. The template is already orphaned, and I only had to do edit like 20 pages to make it happen. They either, and neither was escaping itself; ; like  or ; or (thanks to shoddy regex parsing of templates by User:Werieth), . There is really nothing to "adjust" to, as the correct magic word syntax is the same as what was used before, and any transclusions are errors — and probably indicative of some other fault, like in the last case I mentioned. If the error were more visible there, it would be more likely to be noticed. — Keφr 05:53, 3 August 2014 (UTC)
 * All of the magic words that look like templates should have a blank page with a transclusion to documentation. If it looks like a template, it should act like a template. So, I'd say blank and continue to transclude the documentation, once its properly updated, of course. Then, do this for all the other magic words that look like template calls. Oiyarbepsy (talk) 05:44, 5 August 2014 (UTC)
 * To clarify, the text of the Template:! page should be changed to . Oiyarbepsy (talk) 05:47, 5 August 2014 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Template:BRICS countries

 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was merge Plastikspork ―Œ (talk) 05:50, 7 August 2014 (UTC)
 * BRICS countries
 * BRIC summits

Propose merging Template:BRICS countries with Template:BRIC summits.

Redundant. Merge similar to Templates_for_discussion/Log/2014_July_16. §§ Dharmadhyaksha §§ {T/C} 05:35, 28 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Support and rename BRICS-- Redtigerxyz Talk 06:03, 28 July 2014 (UTC)
 * sure why not? Frietjes (talk) 17:15, 28 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Note BRICS countries only really appears on country articles. If this is merged, there should be a way (a parameter) to turn off all other links except the country links, as I don't see the relevance of linking to summits in the country articles. -- 65.94.169.222 (talk) 04:07, 29 July 2014 (UTC)
 * And how would some superflous links at the end of huge country article really matter? §§ Dharmadhyaksha §§ {T/C} 14:34, 29 July 2014 (UTC)
 * It's more clutter at the end of country articles. So if this is merged, there should be a way to hide everything except the country links, to reduce the clutter. (such as a  switch that only displays the country links.) -- 65.94.169.222 (talk) 04:16, 30 July 2014 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Template:Legislative districts of Valenzuela City

 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was delete Plastikspork <sub style="font-size: 60%">―Œ <sup style="margin-left:-3ex">(talk) 04:10, 7 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Legislative districts of Valenzuela City

All links covered in the main Template:Valenzuela City.--RioHondo (talk) 03:03, 28 July 2014 (UTC)
 * delete Frietjes (talk) 15:48, 29 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Delete as redundant <span style="font-family:monospace, monospace;">—PC-XT+ 00:00, 30 July 2014 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Template:Overlinked
<div class="boilerplate tfd vfd tfd-closed" style="background-color: #e3f9df; padding: 0 10px 0 10px; border: 1px solid #AAAAAA;">
 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was no consensus Plastikspork <sub style="font-size: 60%">―Œ <sup style="margin-left:-3ex">(talk) 04:06, 7 August 2014 (UTC).
 * Followup per the request on my talk page
 * Note that by sheer vote count, some might close this as "keep", but we are reminded that these are discussions and not votes. In addition, unlike other venues, there is no "vote percentage threshold" in template deletion discussions for when a discussion should be closed as keep/no consensus/delete.  Hence, it is up to the closer to weigh the arguments for and against deleting the template.  In this case, I felt as though there were strong arguments on both sides, but no consensus.  Hence, this was closed as "no consensus".  Please feel free to discuss the merits (or lack of merits) of this template elsewhere.  Plastikspork <sub style="font-size: 60%">―Œ <sup style="margin-left:-3ex">(talk)  16:58, 9 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Overlinked

27 transclusions. Of dubious value as a cleanup template given the ease of fixing the alleged problem. Chris Cunningham (user:thumperward) (talk) 19:56, 18 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Comment I tend to agree with CC's position. Articles tend to have poor usability when aggressively delinked, as you need to hunt for links on the page if you knew the condition existed, or you'd believe no articles existed for likely key topic, as in long articles, the first occurrence may be nowhere near what you're reading, especially if you used a section-redirect or the TOC to get to where you're reading. -- 65.94.171.126 (talk) 05:17, 19 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Strong keep This template has been in continued use for years, because there are always a few editors who exaggerate in adding links to articles. I have found this template useful in finding those articles. The argument by Chris Cunningham (user:thumperward) is flawed, because this template doesn't serve to fix the problem but to draw willing editors' attention to it. Debresser (talk) 18:19, 19 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Delete When an editor sees there is a redundant link, a "link not relevant to the context", or a combination of (or multiples of) the 2, he can simply delete the few characters that create the link(s) (e.g., the  brackets)--instead of typing all the characters for the hatbox code. (That is, the Chris Cunningham (user:thumperward) argument is valid.)  Moreover, Template:Cleanup suffices and makes Template:Overlinked of extremely low extra value.  30 SW (talk) 13:31, 22 July 2014 (UTC)
 * The template is needed to draw attention to such articles. The fact remains that articles with heavy overlinking do exist, and these articles need attention drawn to them. Template:Cleanup is too general, so that is a non-argument. Debresser (talk) 22:24, 22 July 2014 (UTC)


 * Strong keep Here's an example my usage: Doti District. There's way too many (and weird) red links/red-linked templates in that article for my liking. It's just unappealing to a reader and needs to be slimmed down. Just because a template is less used than others, doesn't mean it needs to be tossed in the bin. With the template applied, the issue is addressed and time is given to hand pick bad links out, whether it be too many red or blue links. Obviously, no article needs too many blue links (hence this template). They only need what's relevant. MrScorch6200  (talk &#124; ctrb) 05:12, 23 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Keep Yes it may have few transclusions, but this does not mean that it isn't useful. Besides, if it was added to something like Twinkle, it might actually start being transcluded more. Kevin Rutherford (talk) 05:22, 23 July 2014 (UTC)
 * It is in Twinkle. It's under Specific content issues then links. MrScorch6200  (talk &#124; ctrb) 05:41, 23 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Keep, this template is not meant to be used transcluded frequently. It is meant to draw attention to over-linked articles, so they may be fixed, and the template removed. --Zfish118 (talk) 16:38, 23 July 2014 (UTC)

<hr style="width:55%;" />
 * Keep. Full disclosure: I created the template. But I didn't create it for the occasional article with three links to the same article.  Some people will link 60% of the words in an sentence.  Also, more often, creating redlinks, often in lists.  Or, in some type of advertising campaign, overlink a particular term many, many times.  Sometimes, you don't have time (or desire) in that moment to rectify the problem personally, but as Debresser said, it will draw another willing editor's attention to the problem if he/she desires to correct it.--Esprit15d • talk • contribs 12:56, 23 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Keep Not all useful templates will be use frequently. --I dream of horses (T) @ 06:49, 26 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.


 * Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Plastikspork <sub style="font-size: 60%">―Œ <sup style="margin-left:-3ex">(talk) 00:13, 28 July 2014 (UTC)

<hr style="width:55%;" />

Keep One may not have the time to remove all those links. --Mr. Guye (talk) 01:53, 28 July 2014 (UTC)
 *  Keep - If an article has too many unneeded links, it may be useful to tag it. --Jax 0677 (talk) 22:41, 29 July 2014 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Template:Cite image
<div class="boilerplate tfd vfd tfd-closed" style="background-color: #e3f9df; padding: 0 10px 0 10px; border: 1px solid #AAAAAA;">
 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was userfy Plastikspork <sub style="font-size: 60%">―Œ <sup style="margin-left:-3ex">(talk) 06:04, 7 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Cite image

Only one article use; replaceable by cite AV media; not mergeable due to differing parameters.  Gadget850talk 10:55, 18 July 2014 (UTC)
 * What is the point of nominating for deletion a template which is attached to a proposal (hence only one example usage)? It is clearly not replaceable with cite AV media, which is just a normal citation template for text in articles. It's a bit rude that you didn't read Image citation or ever attempt to contact me before this nomination. Dominic·t 15:13, 18 July 2014 (UTC)
 * There is no indication in the template documentation that it is attached to a proposal. If this is part of a proposal, then it should be marked as such and should not be used in articles. This has been in template space for six months. The only thing missing from cite AV media is the LOC ID, and that can be included as a separate template. This would also allow IDs other than LOC (I have worked with these before and understand how they work).
 * Lastly, this page is Templates for Discussion, and that is what we are doing here. One of these days we will change the TfD template to reflect this.


 * cite image


 * cite AV media


 * I fail to see what harm the page is causing or why I need to spend my time defending it now. You nominated this page for deletion without giving anyone the courtesy of asking what it was for first or looking at the pages where it was used, and now you are insisting that we must discuss the specific design of a template for an idea that doesn't even have consensus yet here. You can claim that this isn't a deletion nomination and that you just want to discuss, even though it seems to me that that was not your original intention, but if you actually have comments on that proposal, please discuss it on the talk page where it is more appropriate and not here. Dominic·t 19:46, 18 July 2014 (UTC)


 * Immediately obvious from the nom that this is redundant; no idea what the author is on about in his TLDR response. Chris Cunningham (user:thumperward) (talk) 19:58, 18 July 2014 (UTC)

<hr style="width:55%;" />
 * Comment why is this called "cite image" ? Shouldn't it be called "cite file info" ? The namespace is called "FILE", and this would obviously be usable in non-image files. As for why "info" would be to distinguish citing files from citations for files. -- 65.94.171.126 (talk) 13:25, 19 July 2014 (UTC)
 * It should be image, since all the examples show that it is clearly intended for images only, not for other files. Oiyarbepsy (talk) 05:35, 5 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Move to user space or Image citation/template or similar. It's a proposal which should be kept, although not in template space. — This, that and the other (talk) 07:24, 21 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.


 * Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Plastikspork <sub style="font-size: 60%">―Œ <sup style="margin-left:-3ex">(talk) 00:09, 28 July 2014 (UTC)

<hr style="width:55%;" />
 * move to userspace Frietjes (talk) 15:46, 29 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Move to an appropriate destination, such as suggested above, since it is only a proposed template, and shouldn't really be in template space, yet. <span style="font-family:monospace, monospace;">—PC-XT+ 00:19, 30 July 2014 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Template:Anik Dutta
<div class="boilerplate tfd vfd tfd-closed" style="background-color: #e3f9df; padding: 0 10px 0 10px; border: 1px solid #AAAAAA;">
 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was no consensus Plastikspork <sub style="font-size: 60%">―Œ <sup style="margin-left:-3ex">(talk) 04:08, 7 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Anik Dutta

fails WP:NENAN with just two valid blue links <span style="font-family:'Old English Text MT',serif;color:green">The Banner <i style="color:maroon">talk</i> 20:47, 18 July 2014 (UTC) <hr style="width:55%;" />
 * Delete per nominator....William 14:23, 19 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Keep. WP:NENAN is not a policy and there is no consensus for the view that there is a minimum number of links necessary for a navigational template. The template has three blue links, not two, and as Dutta is an active director it is likely that there will be more links as time goes on. If the template is extended to include writing credits, which has been done elsewhere, the number of blue links increases to four, not that there's a magic number for survival. "Directed by" templates a common feature on WP:FILM articles and useful to our readers. Mackensen (talk) 21:16, 19 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Keep per WP:ANOEP, with support for the expansion mentioned by User:Mackensen. I would think about putting this on Anik Dutta, as well. <span style="font-family:monospace, monospace;">—PC-XT+ 01:58, 20 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.


 * Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Plastikspork <sub style="font-size: 60%">―Œ <sup style="margin-left:-3ex">(talk) 00:05, 28 July 2014 (UTC)

<hr style="width:55%;" />
 * weak keep, seems to be active, but no problem with reconsidering if it hasn't expanded in a year or two. Frietjes (talk) 15:48, 29 July 2014 (UTC)
 * I probably should have said keep for now, since this should be rediscussed if nothing changes <span style="font-family:monospace, monospace;">—PC-XT+ 00:36, 30 July 2014 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.