Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2014 March 27



Template:Real Estate band

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The result of the discussion was delete Plastikspork ―Œ (talk) 15:15, 5 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Real Estate band

Of limited use, this template is for a little-known indie band with three albums. Liz Read! Talk! 00:04, 28 March 2014 (UTC)
 * delete, articles are already well-connected through succession links. Frietjes (talk) 22:25, 3 April 2014 (UTC)
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Template:French intervention in Mexico infobox

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The result of the discussion was no consensus Plastikspork ―Œ (talk) 02:57, 5 May 2014 (UTC)
 * French intervention in Mexico infobox

One transclusion, to be merged into the main article. eh bien mon prince (talk) 22:15, 27 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Oppose. There is precedent for this, cf. World War II. Having the infobox in a different namespace makes it less intimidating and difficult for new editors to edit the article text itself. The infobox is long (8.96 kB) and contains extensive references. Srnec (talk) 23:56, 27 March 2014 (UTC)
 * I'd delete as redundant, but Srnec raises a point worthy of wider consideration. RfC? Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 12:27, 28 March 2014 (UTC)
 * The purpose of the template namespace is to display the same bits of wikicode on multiple pages, and the idea of using it to hide bloated blocks of code without having to go through a boring and potentially contentious cleanup and summarisation process is damaging to the quality of both articles and templates, as well as to the accuracy of the information they contain.--eh bien mon prince (talk) 16:29, 28 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Do you have a problem with the quality of the infobox as is? My experience with Template:WW2InfoBox is what led me to this solution at the Mexican article. There is consensus that this is sometimes acceptable, regardless of the "purpose" of the template namespace. Srnec (talk) 20:18, 29 March 2014 (UTC)


 * merge with the article and delete. if we need to save the history for attribution, then move to a subpage, and redirect. Frietjes (talk) 22:26, 3 April 2014 (UTC)
 * In the case of the similar WWI infobox, the discussion resulted in a consensus to keep. Srnec (talk) 20:13, 13 April 2014 (UTC)
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Template:Obama cabinet infobox

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The result of the discussion was no consensus Plastikspork ―Œ (talk) 15:16, 5 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Obama cabinet infobox

Hardcoded instance of Infobox U.S. Cabinet, two transclusions. eh bien mon prince (talk) 22:13, 27 March 2014 (UTC)
 * keep so long as there is more than one transclusion, however delete if it should only be in one article. Frietjes (talk) 22:21, 27 March 2014 (UTC)
 * As the person who created this template, I believe I created it to match infoboxes that exists for other presidential cabinets. (I don't remember that well since I created it over five years ago.) If we have deprecated infoboxes for other presidential cabinets we could probably delete this, but I do like the idea of keeping this in one place so we don't have to update each infobox on all of the Obama administration articles. Harej (talk) 03:47, 28 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Question: Would labeled section transclusion be appropriate for infoboxes? —PC-XT+</tt> 05:11, 28 March 2014 (UTC)
 * I don't know, but if that's the alternative I'd rather keep the template.--eh bien mon prince (talk) 16:18, 28 March 2014 (UTC)


 * Keep unless it can be merged with one article and removed from the other <tt>—PC-XT+</tt> 01:48, 5 April 2014 (UTC)
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Template:GW Bush cabinet infobox
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The result of the discussion was delete Plastikspork <sub style="font-size: 60%">―Œ <sup style="margin-left:-3ex">(talk) 15:18, 5 April 2014 (UTC)
 * GW Bush cabinet infobox

Hardcoded instance of Infobox U.S. Cabinet, one transclusion. eh bien mon prince (talk) 22:12, 27 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Merge into article <tt>—PC-XT+</tt> 05:14, 28 March 2014 (UTC)
 * merge with the article. Frietjes (talk) 22:27, 3 April 2014 (UTC)
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Template:PlayStation 3/infobox
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The result of the discussion was delete Plastikspork <sub style="font-size: 60%">―Œ <sup style="margin-left:-3ex">(talk) 15:32, 5 April 2014 (UTC)
 * PlayStation 3/infobox

The infobox should be merged into the main article. eh bien mon prince (talk) 22:11, 27 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Merge into article per nom <tt>—PC-XT+</tt> 05:24, 28 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Delete as redundant. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 12:27, 28 March 2014 (UTC)
 * merge with the article. Frietjes (talk) 22:28, 3 April 2014 (UTC)
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Template:Guatemalan ministries infobox
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The result of the discussion was delete Plastikspork <sub style="font-size: 60%">―Œ <sup style="margin-left:-3ex">(talk) 15:34, 5 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Guatemalan ministries infobox

Redundant to Template:Infobox government agency. eh bien mon prince (talk) 22:11, 27 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Delete as redundant. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 12:27, 28 March 2014 (UTC)
 * delete, replaced [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Ministry_of_Defence_(Guatemala)&diff=602646177&oldid=591515552 here]. Frietjes (talk) 22:33, 3 April 2014 (UTC)
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Template:George Pataki cabinet infobox
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The result of the discussion was delete Plastikspork <sub style="font-size: 60%">―Œ <sup style="margin-left:-3ex">(talk) 15:36, 5 April 2014 (UTC)
 * George Pataki cabinet infobox

Hardcoded instance of Infobox N.Y. Cabinet with 1 transclusion. eh bien mon prince (talk) 22:10, 27 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Merge with Governorship of George Pataki <tt>—PC-XT+</tt> 05:30, 28 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Delete after 'subst:' as redundant. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 12:27, 28 March 2014 (UTC)
 * merge with article, then delete. Frietjes (talk) 22:33, 3 April 2014 (UTC)
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Template:IBAF World Rankings infobox
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The result of the discussion was delete Plastikspork <sub style="font-size: 60%">―Œ <sup style="margin-left:-3ex">(talk) 16:17, 5 April 2014 (UTC)
 * IBAF World Rankings infobox

One transclusion, should be merged with its article. eh bien mon prince (talk) 22:09, 27 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Subst into article and sandbox then delete <tt>—PC-XT+</tt> 05:39, 28 March 2014 (UTC)
 * or, maybe subst and userfy, perhaps by moving over the sandbox? <tt>—PC-XT+</tt> 05:51, 28 March 2014 (UTC)


 * Delete (or userfy) as redundant. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 12:27, 28 March 2014 (UTC)
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Template:French Navy infobox
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The result of the discussion was delete Plastikspork <sub style="font-size: 60%">―Œ <sup style="margin-left:-3ex">(talk) 15:39, 5 April 2014 (UTC)
 * French Navy infobox

No reason to keep it separate from French Navy. eh bien mon prince (talk) 22:08, 27 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Merge per nom <tt>—PC-XT+</tt> 05:42, 28 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 12:27, 28 March 2014 (UTC)
 * merge with article, then delete. Frietjes (talk) 22:34, 3 April 2014 (UTC)
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Template:Kosovo infobox
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The result of the discussion was delete Plastikspork <sub style="font-size: 60%">―Œ <sup style="margin-left:-3ex">(talk) 15:43, 5 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Kosovo infobox

Unused. eh bien mon prince (talk) 22:05, 27 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Delete; it's redundant and it's outdated. bobrayner (talk) 23:03, 27 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Delete: per above. Nicholas  (Alo!) 05:13, 28 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Delete as redundant. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 12:27, 28 March 2014 (UTC)
 * delete Frietjes (talk) 22:34, 3 April 2014 (UTC)
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Template:Microsoft/infobox
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The result of the discussion was delete Plastikspork <sub style="font-size: 60%">―Œ <sup style="margin-left:-3ex">(talk) 15:43, 5 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Microsoft/infobox

Unused. eh bien mon prince (talk) 22:05, 27 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Delete as redundant. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 12:27, 28 March 2014 (UTC)
 * delete Frietjes (talk) 22:34, 3 April 2014 (UTC)
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Template:Eliot Spitzer cabinet infobox
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The result of the discussion was delete Plastikspork <sub style="font-size: 60%">―Œ <sup style="margin-left:-3ex">(talk) 15:44, 5 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Eliot Spitzer cabinet infobox

Hardcoded instance of Infobox N.Y. Cabinet, single use. eh bien mon prince (talk) 22:04, 27 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Merge into Eliot Spitzer <tt>—PC-XT+</tt> 05:45, 28 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Delete after 'subst:' as redundant. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 12:27, 28 March 2014 (UTC)
 * merge with article, then delete. Frietjes (talk) 22:34, 3 April 2014 (UTC)
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Template:David Paterson cabinet infobox
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The result of the discussion was delete Plastikspork <sub style="font-size: 60%">―Œ <sup style="margin-left:-3ex">(talk) 15:49, 5 April 2014 (UTC)
 * David Paterson cabinet infobox

Hardcoded instance of Infobox N.Y. Cabinet with one transclusion. Should be merged into the article. eh bien mon prince (talk) 22:04, 27 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Merge into David Paterson per nom <tt>—PC-XT+</tt> 05:48, 28 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Delete after 'subst:' as redundant. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 12:27, 28 March 2014 (UTC)
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Template:Afro-Asian Games infobox
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The result of the discussion was delete, after replacing with Infobox games. If you still want it to be replaced with Infobox sport event, feel free to do so in 2003 Afro-Asian Games, but replacing it with Infobox games is going to be much easier. Plastikspork <sub style="font-size: 60%">―Œ <sup style="margin-left:-3ex">(talk) 05:14, 6 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Afro-Asian Games infobox

Redundant to Template:Infobox sport event. eh bien mon prince (talk) 22:02, 27 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Delete as redundant. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 12:27, 28 March 2014 (UTC)
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Template:Kombi infobox
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The result of the discussion was delete Plastikspork <sub style="font-size: 60%">―Œ <sup style="margin-left:-3ex">(talk) 03:25, 30 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Kombi infobox

Redundant to Template:Infobox comedian. eh bien mon prince (talk) 22:01, 27 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Delete as redundant. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 12:27, 28 March 2014 (UTC)
 * either merge with infobox comedian, which doesn't have all the parameters, or move to (which would be a useful redirect if the comedian infobox is really the most appropriate for groups). Frietjes (talk) 17:25, 9 April 2014 (UTC)
 * now replaced using template:infobox comedy group as a redirect in case there is a desire to reverse the replacement, or split the comedy groups from the comedians. Frietjes (talk) 17:12, 29 April 2014 (UTC)
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Template:IBAF Women's World Rankings infobox
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The result of the discussion was delete Plastikspork <sub style="font-size: 60%">―Œ <sup style="margin-left:-3ex">(talk) 15:53, 5 April 2014 (UTC)
 * IBAF Women's World Rankings infobox

This table should be merged into the only article in which it appears. eh bien mon prince (talk) 21:58, 27 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Merge into IBAF World Rankings per nom <tt>—PC-XT+</tt> 05:41, 28 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Delete after 'subst:' as redundant. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 12:27, 28 March 2014 (UTC)
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Template:Economy of Africa infobox
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The result of the discussion was delete Plastikspork <sub style="font-size: 60%">―Œ <sup style="margin-left:-3ex">(talk) 15:56, 5 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Economy of Africa infobox

Unused, obsolete. eh bien mon prince (talk) 21:54, 27 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Delete as redundant. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 12:27, 28 March 2014 (UTC)
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Template:Cucuteni-Trypillian infobox
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The result of the discussion was delete Plastikspork <sub style="font-size: 60%">―Œ <sup style="margin-left:-3ex">(talk) 02:51, 5 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Cucuteni-Trypillian infobox

Hybrid of a sidebar and an infobox; Template:Infobox former country can be used as an infobox while the sidebar should be separate from the rest. eh bien mon prince (talk) 21:52, 27 March 2014 (UTC)


 * The Cucuteni-Trypillian culture is not a former country. It was an Archaeological culture. So the former country infobox would not apply. If it is decided to remove the Cucuteni-Trypillian infobox, that would be fine with me (speaking as the largest contributor to edits on the Cucuteni-Trypillian articles). But I would suggest taking prompts on how the page is designed and what elements should be incorporated in it from other archaeological culture articles. Indeed, this is why I originally created the Cucuteni-Trypillian infobox, because other archaeological culture articles from the Neolithic also included similar infoboxes in their pages. But now I see that, for some reason, most of the archaeological culture articles have removed their infoboxes, and so this would be fine to emulate their standard. A good article for reference would be Corded Ware culture. --Saukkomies talk 22:18, 27 March 2014 (UTC)
 * As it happens, we also have a Infobox archaeological culture.--eh bien mon prince (talk) 23:00, 27 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Delete as redundant, per nom. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 12:27, 28 March 2014 (UTC)
 * split into infobox+sidebar and merge history with Cucuteni-Trypillian sidebar (which I just created for this purpose). Frietjes (talk) 16:34, 29 April 2014 (UTC)
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Template:Pakistan ministry infobox
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The result of the discussion was delete Plastikspork <sub style="font-size: 60%">―Œ <sup style="margin-left:-3ex">(talk) 03:27, 30 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Pakistan ministry infobox

Redundant to Template:Infobox government agency. eh bien mon prince (talk) 21:49, 27 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Delete as redundant. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 12:27, 28 March 2014 (UTC)
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Template:Scottish Parliament region infobox
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The result of the discussion was delete Plastikspork <sub style="font-size: 60%">―Œ <sup style="margin-left:-3ex">(talk) 03:26, 30 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Scottish Parliament region infobox

10 transclusions, redundant to Infobox constituency. eh bien mon prince (talk) 21:47, 27 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Delete as redundant. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 12:27, 28 March 2014 (UTC)
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Template:Economy of North America infobox
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The result of the discussion was delete Plastikspork <sub style="font-size: 60%">―Œ <sup style="margin-left:-3ex">(talk) 15:57, 5 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Economy of North America infobox

Unused. eh bien mon prince (talk) 21:45, 27 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Delete; redundant, and seems to be actual content (rather outdated), masquerading as an infobox template. bobrayner (talk) 01:13, 28 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Delete as redundant. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 12:27, 28 March 2014 (UTC)
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Template:IRL politician infobox
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The result of the discussion was delete Plastikspork <sub style="font-size: 60%">―Œ <sup style="margin-left:-3ex">(talk) 15:57, 5 April 2014 (UTC)
 * IRL politician infobox

Obsolete and unused, no need to keep it for historical reference. eh bien mon prince (talk) 21:45, 27 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Delete as redundant. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 12:27, 28 March 2014 (UTC)
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Template:Royal Melbourne Institute of Technology infobox
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The result of the discussion was delete Plastikspork <sub style="font-size: 60%">―Œ <sup style="margin-left:-3ex">(talk) 04:36, 29 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Royal Melbourne Institute of Technology infobox

31 transclusions, redundant to Infobox institute or Infobox university. eh bien mon prince (talk) 21:09, 27 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Delete as redundant. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 12:27, 28 March 2014 (UTC)
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Template:Media infobox
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The result of the discussion was delete Plastikspork <sub style="font-size: 60%">―Œ <sup style="margin-left:-3ex">(talk) 04:36, 29 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Media infobox

Five transclusions, redundant to Template:Infobox magazine. eh bien mon prince (talk) 21:04, 27 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Delete as redundant. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 12:27, 28 March 2014 (UTC)
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Template:Chola infobox
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The result of the discussion was delete Plastikspork <sub style="font-size: 60%">―Œ <sup style="margin-left:-3ex">(talk) 01:34, 28 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Chola infobox

Only transcluded on List of Solesvara temples which doesn't need an infobox. Redundant to Infobox former country in other contexts. eh bien mon prince (talk) 21:03, 27 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Delete (subst:' if needed) as redundant. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 12:27, 28 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Merge with article as single-use template <tt>—PC-XT+</tt> 21:41, 5 April 2014 (UTC)
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Template:Afsharid dynasty infobox
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The result of the discussion was delete Plastikspork <sub style="font-size: 60%">―Œ <sup style="margin-left:-3ex">(talk) 16:02, 5 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Afsharid dynasty infobox

Unused and obsolete. eh bien mon prince (talk) 21:01, 27 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Delete as redundant. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 12:27, 28 March 2014 (UTC)
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Template:Northern Ireland Parliament constituency infobox
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The result of the discussion was delete Plastikspork <sub style="font-size: 60%">―Œ <sup style="margin-left:-3ex">(talk) 20:52, 27 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Northern Ireland Parliament constituency infobox

62 transclusions, redundant to Template:Infobox constituency. eh bien mon prince (talk) 21:00, 27 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Delete as redundant. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 12:27, 28 March 2014 (UTC)
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Template:Greatesthitsinfobox
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The result of the discussion was delete Plastikspork <sub style="font-size: 60%">―Œ <sup style="margin-left:-3ex">(talk) 16:03, 5 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Greatesthitsinfobox

Unused. eh bien mon prince (talk) 20:59, 27 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Delete as redundant. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 12:27, 28 March 2014 (UTC)
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Template:PlayStation 3 connectivity infobox
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The result of the discussion was delete Plastikspork <sub style="font-size: 60%">―Œ <sup style="margin-left:-3ex">(talk) 16:06, 5 April 2014 (UTC)
 * PlayStation 3 connectivity infobox

Unused. eh bien mon prince (talk) 20:58, 27 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Delete as redundant. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 12:27, 28 March 2014 (UTC)
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Template:Thai case infobox
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The result of the discussion was delete Plastikspork <sub style="font-size: 60%">―Œ <sup style="margin-left:-3ex">(talk) 16:08, 5 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Thai case infobox

Unused outside of userspace and redundant to  Template:Infobox court case. eh bien mon prince (talk) 20:55, 27 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Delete as redundant. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 12:27, 28 March 2014 (UTC)
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Template:ProbSig
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The result of the discussion was delete, now that User has been updated. Plastikspork <sub style="font-size: 60%">―Œ <sup style="margin-left:-3ex">(talk) 01:13, 9 April 2014 (UTC)
 * ProbSig

Redundant clone of User that was to solve a non-existent problem. —  Scott  •  talk  14:21, 27 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Delete as redundant, as far as I can tell <tt>—PC-XT+</tt> 19:16, 27 March 2014 (UTC)
 * delete Frietjes (talk) 22:20, 27 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Keep as it is not redundant of User and is intended to solve the problem of correcting signatures that are in violation of the signature policy per SIGCLEAN since User can not be used as it would violate WP:SIG even if User was subst: it would still violate WP:SIG as can be seen where I get yelled at in an edit summary for changing a signature per subst: SIGCLEAN (before I knew that User wasn't substitution friendly which I tried to subst to not violate WP:SIG). — &#123;&#123;U&#124;Technical 13&#125;&#125; (t • e • c) 11:42, 28 March 2014 (UTC)
 * A substitution-friendly version of User seems to be wanted. It looks like someone has a stand-alone version in Template:User/sandbox. A subst-friendly version that doesn't change the live template as much may be User:PC-XT/sandbox/Template:User. ( PC-XT → PC-XT (talk · contribs) ) <tt>—PC-XT+</tt> 20:18, 28 March 2014 (UTC)
 * , does not work just as well (I'm open to renaming or adding redirects) as such a template probably shouldn't be in userspace. — &#123;&#123;U&#124;Technical 13&#125;&#125; (t • e • c) 15:56, 29 March 2014 (UTC)
 * , I'm not sure I understand your question. My example is meant to be merged with User. (It could optionally use noinclude tags instead of parameter markup, as I said at SIGCLEAN.) If you mean that I used my sandbox instead of the one at the template, I do not intend to keep it in my userspace, nor for it to be used from there other than for testcases. I thought that was clear from the name. I did not use the one at the template because it is already holding a stand-alone variant, something similar to ProbSig. I do not think there is anything wrong with ProbSig. There are simply other ways of doing things that may work better, and I suggested something to consider. It is redundant to User and ProbSig as much as they are redundant to it, but it shares the code in one template, instead of forking. Only one choice should be kept. I see the idea was already mentioned at SIGCLEAN before I made the sandbox, and I don't consider it mine. If I missed the point, please ask again. <tt>—PC-XT+</tt> 20:05, 29 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Based on the results on Template:User/testcases, I maintain the the code used for ProbSig results in the lightest weight and effective code out of all of the options, as we wouldn't want to violate WP:SIGLEN after all while attempting to fix a signature. — &#123;&#123;U&#124;Technical 13&#125;&#125; (t • e • c) 20:25, 29 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Thanks for making the testcases page. It doesn't have a subst-friendly version of User listed, so I'll add the one from my sandbox for now. I would prefer a shorter code, myself, but User is not too much longer, looking at the example I gave above. (I don't know why it encloses the whole thing in a span tag with no attributes. Maybe that could even be removed.) <tt>—PC-XT+</tt> 21:10, 29 March 2014 (UTC)
 * It also does not need a plainlinks class to wrap wikilinks. <tt>—PC-XT+</tt> 21:18, 29 March 2014 (UTC)
 * It should be noted here, also, that user is a wrapper for user-multi, which now accounts for over 200,000 transclusions. Thus we shouldn't be creating any new user link templates that aren't based on it. WP:SIGLEN is also not a consideration here, because that applies to the length of a user's self-chosen signature code, not code used to replace it in problematic cases. —  Scott  •  talk  21:28, 29 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Ummm say what? the purpose of WP:SIGCLEAN is to replace custom signatures with a signature that is as close to the default code as possible, and yes, WP:SIGLEN is a consideration here as it says nothing about applying to "self-choosen signature code" only... Bullet number one states: Signatures that take up more than two or three lines in the edit window clutter the page and make it harder to distinguish posts from signatures. and bullet four Signatures that occupy more space than necessary in the edit box displace meaningful comments, thus forcing editors to scroll when writing their replies. which is relevant and applicable no matter how the signature got there. — &#123;&#123;U&#124;Technical 13&#125;&#125; (t • e • c) 22:03, 29 March 2014 (UTC)
 * As you quote, "signatures that take up...". But a replacement for a user's erroneous signature is not actually their signature, and anything much simpler is an adequate replacement. In other words, SIGLEN doesn't mandate that a replacement must be absolutely as short as possible - not that that wouldn't be a good thing. It would be better to improve the existing output of user than to have yet another template that's only different by being shorter "as we wouldn't want to violate SIGLEN". For example, as PC-XT points out, what's up with those span tags? I certainly don't know. You could definitely help by working with the authors of that template on getting that ironed out. —  Scott  •  talk  22:42, 29 March 2014 (UTC)
 * a signature is a signature whether it was put there by them or as a replacement for a user's erroneous signature. Those span tags are not part of ProbSig, they are part of User:PC-XT/sandbox/Template:User. Once those span tags are removed, you are left with ProbSig.  So, you would seem to agree that ProbSig should be kept.  Should I consider this agreement your way of requesting this TfD withdrawn? — &#123;&#123;U&#124;Technical 13&#125;&#125; (t • e • c) 22:54, 29 March 2014 (UTC)
 * I'm afraid not. I'm not sure how, but your reading of my comment is 180° from its intention. If anything, I'm emphasizing that your new template is unnecessary duplication of existing functionality, which your efforts would be better spent on working towards improving - not reimplementing. —  Scott  •  talk  23:48, 29 March 2014 (UTC)
 * It's done with modules, now. There are two modules involved in the spans. I mentioned the plainlinks span, which is also used to apply other classes and styles, at Template talk:Toolbar. The main span could be discussed at Template talk:User-multi. The main span may have been used in the past to contain an id, which probably was removed because multiple identical ids do not work well on the same page. They may have other functions, but they have little use blank or applying unneeded classes. <tt>—PC-XT+</tt> 23:12, 29 March 2014 (UTC)
 * When you remove the span wrappers you end up with ProbSig which is nothing more than a subst-friendly version of User that results in code that is the closest to the default signature (plus a contribs link), do you not? So... Why not just keep ProbSig for this purpose? — &#123;&#123;U&#124;Technical 13&#125;&#125; (t • e • c) 22:03, 29 March 2014 (UTC)
 * See, for example, User:RL0919/Templates of Redundancy Templates. I do think a shorter signature is desirable, but so is standardization. I don't think the one in my sandbox really produces too much code. ( Technical 13 → Technical 13 (talk · contribs) ) is shorter than the wikicode resulting from your custom signature, so I don't really think it is a big problem. (For those who don't know, I am talking about the wikicode source visible when editing the page, not the actual signature.) <tt>—PC-XT+</tt> 22:46, 29 March 2014 (UTC) 23:12, 29 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Yes, and you yourself said those spans should be removed, which leaves you with {{subst:ProbSig|Technical 13}} → Technical 13 (contribs · talk)... — &#123;&#123;U&#124;Technical 13&#125;&#125; (t • e • c) 22:54, 29 March 2014 (UTC)
 * ...which makes it redundant. You seem to be taking a defensive stance when I haven't attacked you or the template. Aren't we working for the good of the encyclopedia? Your template paved the way for improvement, but nothing stays the same forever on a wiki. <tt>—PC-XT+</tt> 23:12, 29 March 2014 (UTC) 23:26, 29 March 2014 (UTC)


 * Comment User is now substitution friendly. For the record, I'm going to put my sandboxed version up for speedy deletion, since it is no longer a useful example: the template has surpassed it. I'll update the testcase page, as well... <tt>—PC-XT+</tt> 08:11, 6 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Delete. Not necessary now that user is substable. Disclaimer: I am the one who did the recent work on user and Module:UserLinks to make substing work. — <span style="color: #194D00; font-family: Palatino, Times, serif">Mr. Stradivarius  ♪ talk ♪ 10:38, 6 April 2014 (UTC)
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Template:1986 Missouri Intercollegiate Athletic Association football standings
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The result of the discussion was no consensus Plastikspork <sub style="font-size: 60%">―Œ <sup style="margin-left:-3ex">(talk) 00:53, 27 April 2014 (UTC)
 * 1986 Missouri Intercollegiate Athletic Association football standings

Unnecessary template is possibly for one's personal usage, not the multitude of Wikipedians. May also create bias as special template for this team makes other teams appear less notable, when they may not be. Nomination for deletion. Mr. Guye (talk) 02:24, 27 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Comment I don't understand the deletion rationale. The template is for a league, not a team. I also don't understand how it could be for personal usage. — X96lee15 (talk) 02:45, 27 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Comment I don't understand the rationale either. This TfD nomination (as it's presented) makes no sense. Jrcla2 (talk) 03:37, 27 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Keep on the basis that User:Mr. Guye has absolutely no clue how to edit Wikipedia or what a reasonable rationale for deletion is. Please take a look at his talk page edit history that shows how many messages he's received (which he deleted) regarding his nominations, editing habits, and total inexperience. WP:COMPETENCE is required to edit Wikipedia, and I've failed to see enough of it to support any TfDs put forth by Mr, Guye. My keep is a procedural one. Jrcla2 (talk) 03:48, 27 March 2014 (UTC)

Delete. (This was User:Mr. Guye's edit, who cannot !vote for his own nomination –Jrcla2 (talk) 03:45, 27 March 2014 (UTC)) That wasn't really the MAIN rationale. the main rationale was really the fact that it was unnecessary. Why not just use an infobox. This isn't worth creating an entire template for.


 * Subst and delete as a single-use template, but suspend until the general case can be resolved. Although  is almost almost always wrong, he has pointed out a problem with the template.  If it, or many others in its class (members of Category:Mid-America Intercollegiate Athletics Association football standings templates) are used more than once, the guidelines still suggest it shouldn't be done, but WP:IAR suggests that maintaining the same table in two places would allow it.  (I acknowledge a procedural "Keep" makes sense, and if the result would otherwise be "no consensus", it should be considered a procedural Keep.)  — Arthur Rubin  (talk) 07:32, 27 March 2014 (UTC)


 * Keep. Deletion rationale is factually incorrect.  Also, per Arthur Rubin's comment, other templates in the same class do have multiple uses, e.g. Template:2012 Mid-America Intercollegiate Athletics Association football standings. Jweiss11 (talk) 02:08, 28 March 2014 (UTC)
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