Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2016 August 11



Template:Hoysala Architecture

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The result of the discussion was merge and redirect to preserve attribution. ~ Rob 13 Talk 05:02, 20 August 2016 (UTC)

these image galleries were being used in only one article (Architecture of Karnataka), so I merged them with the article. Frietjes (talk) 23:52, 11 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Hoysala Architecture
 * Vijayanagara architecture
 * Pattadakal
 * Western Chalukya Architecture
 * Architecture of Kingdom of Mysore


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Template:ArchINFORM

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The result of the discussion was relisted on 2016 August 23. Plastikspork ―Œ (talk) 01:23, 23 August 2016 (UTC)
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Template:CNKI

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The result of the discussion was delete. Plastikspork ―Œ (talk) 01:24, 23 August 2016 (UTC) Site-specific DOI template; redundant to doi. Only two translcsuions. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 19:58, 11 August 2016 (UTC)
 * CNKI
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Template:Metavisualizer

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The result of the discussion was delete. Plastikspork ―Œ (talk) 01:25, 23 August 2016 (UTC) Non-functioning. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 19:55, 11 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Metavisualizer
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Template:ColumnChart

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The result of the discussion was delete. Plastikspork ―Œ (talk) 01:24, 23 August 2016 (UTC) Single-use; wraps a link to the non-functioning metavisualizer. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 19:50, 11 August 2016 (UTC)
 * ColumnChart
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Template:DoD detainees ARB

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The result of the discussion was Keep (non-admin closure) Primefac (talk) 19:53, 20 August 2016 (UTC)

Pointless URL template, with no text content. 179 transclusions.
 * DoD detainees ARB

Typical use:

Should be Subst:, then deleted.

(TfD template would break instances like that above, and so has been "noincluded".) Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 19:06, 11 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Keep Prior deletion discussion raised the supposed issue of it being pointless. Except, it isn't. I don't think anything's changed? --Hammersoft (talk) 19:26, 11 August 2016 (UTC)
 * I've add a vote now to keep, due to nominator returning to editing without explaining what has changed since the last TfD making this template less useful than at that time. Nothing has apparently changed. Thus, no apparent rationale for deletion. Nearly 200 transclusions too. I'm open to further discussion on why this needs to be deleted, but at this time no valid reason has been submitted. --Hammersoft (talk) 14:18, 12 August 2016 (UTC)


 * Keep url has already changed once. No objection to improving implementation, as suggested in previous discussion, though there may be some issues there.   All the best: Rich Farmbrough, 07:43, 12 August 2016 (UTC).


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Template:CfDM
<div class="boilerplate tfd vfd tfd-closed" style="background-color: #e3f9df; padding: 0 10px 0 10px; border: 1px solid #AAAAAA;">
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The result of the discussion was Delete ~ Rob 13 <sup style="margin-left:-1.0ex;">Talk 05:00, 20 August 2016 (UTC)

Unused and unusable deletion discussion templates. These templates seem to be designed for use in some hypothetical world where CfD used the AfD system (of one subpage per category discussed). Such a system is not in use. It appears that such a system was briefly proposed and accepted but quickly overturned in 2008. P p p e<big style="position:relative;top:10px">r y <big style="position:relative;top:5px">(talk) 18:35, 11 August 2016 (UTC)
 * CfDM
 * Cfd3
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Template:Fb team ground Zamalek SC
<div class="boilerplate tfd vfd tfd-closed" style="background-color: #e3f9df; padding: 0 10px 0 10px; border: 1px solid #AAAAAA;">
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The result of the discussion was delete. Plastikspork <sub style="font-size: 60%">―Œ <sup style="margin-left:-3ex">(talk) 03:03, 18 August 2016 (UTC) unused. Frietjes (talk) 14:35, 11 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Fb team ground Zamalek SC
 * Fb team ground Tala'ea El Gaish
 * Fb team ground Smouha Sporting Club
 * Fb team ground Haras El Hodood
 * Fb team ground ENPPI
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Template:Largest cities of Illinois
<div class="boilerplate tfd vfd tfd-closed" style="background-color: #e3f9df; padding: 0 10px 0 10px; border: 1px solid #AAAAAA;">
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The result of the discussion was merge. Plastikspork <sub style="font-size: 60%">―Œ <sup style="margin-left:-3ex">(talk) 01:12, 23 August 2016 (UTC) single use, should be merged with the article. Frietjes (talk) 14:12, 11 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Largest cities of Illinois
 * Largest cities of New York
 * Largest cities of Wisconsin
 * Just pointing out that you can't merge then delete something per WP:MAD P p p e<big style="position:relative;top:10px">r y  <big style="position:relative;top:5px">(talk) 02:27, 12 August 2016 (UTC)
 * A cut down version could be beneficial in the city articles demographics section. All the best: Rich Farmbrough, 07:39, 12 August 2016 (UTC).


 * Merge and redirect per attribution concerns. ~ Rob 13 <sup style="margin-left:-1.0ex;">Talk 05:00, 20 August 2016 (UTC)
 * What's to attribute? There is no original content, just facts. Merge and delete. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 11:44, 20 August 2016 (UTC)
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Template:Largest cities of Arkansas
<div class="boilerplate tfd vfd tfd-closed" style="background-color: #e3f9df; padding: 0 10px 0 10px; border: 1px solid #AAAAAA;">
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The result of the discussion was soft delete. WP:REFUND applies. ~ Rob 13 <sup style="margin-left:-1.0ex;">Talk 04:50, 20 August 2016 (UTC)

unused. Frietjes (talk) 14:06, 11 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Largest cities of Arkansas
 * Largest cities of Delaware
 * Largest cities of Kansas
 * Largest cities of Nevada
 * Largest cities and towns of Rhode Island
 * Largest cities of South Carolina
 * Delete Kansas version, because included in Template:Kansas. •  Sbmeirow  •  Talk  • 17:30, 11 August 2016 (UTC)


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Template:The Surreal Life
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The result of the discussion was Delete (non-admin closure) Primefac (talk) 20:10, 20 August 2016 (UTC)

We don't have cast and crew in navboxes per longstanding consensus. A navbox just detailing performers in a reality TV show is just an extension of the same principle. Navboxes like this just encourage WP:TEMPLATECREEP and put WP:UNDUE weight on certain performances of an entertainer over others. For the same reason we have the guideline WP:PERFCAT for categories. Rob Sinden (talk) 08:18, 11 August 2016 (UTC)
 * The Surreal Life
 * delete, better to just link to the parent article for the cast list. this is also different from other navboxes since the celebrities are not primarily known for being on The Surreal Life. Frietjes (talk) 13:08, 11 August 2016 (UTC)
 * improve Instead of deleting this particular template since it is the only one for its parent show just a simple restructure of the template so it contains information similar to Big Brother in the United States or Dancing with the Stars (United States). A complete delete could cause someone to recreate the same existing template.  ♪♫Al ucard   16♫♪  02:27, 18 August 2016 (UTC)
 * If you take out the participants all you are left with is a couple of links, which isn't enough to warrant a navbox. --Rob Sinden (talk) 07:52, 18 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Ah see your point on that one then delete as per nom  ♪♫Al ucard   16♫♪  12:47, 18 August 2016 (UTC)


 * Listify then delete. I'm in favour of deletion for the reasons given above, but as there is no list I think one should be made, possibly in the existing article (perhaps a list for each season). I believe an "improved" template would only include links to The Surreal Life and The Surreal Life: Fame Games, so would be pointless. anemone  projectors  11:22, 20 August 2016 (UTC)


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Template:Celebrity Big Brother
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The result of the discussion was delete. The consensus here favors deletion, which happens to also match the long-running overall community consensus that is repeatedly found at TfD. While the arguments used in establishing the longstanding consensus here, they typically include WP:NAVBOX (which suggests using navboxes only where readers would want to navigate from any one article to each of the other articles), WP:BIDIRECTIONAL (as the cast articles almost certainly shouldn't all have a navbox for every show/movie they've participated in), and the sentiments behind WP:TEMPLATECREEP. ~ Rob 13 <sup style="margin-left:-1.0ex;">Talk 04:41, 20 August 2016 (UTC)

We don't have cast and crew in navboxes per longstanding consensus. A navbox just detailing performers in a reality TV show is just an extension of the same principle. Navboxes like this just encourage WP:TEMPLATECREEP and put WP:UNDUE weight on certain performances of an entertainer over others. For the same reason we have the guideline WP:PERFCAT for categories. Rob Sinden (talk) 08:09, 11 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Celebrity Big Brother
 * Pinoy Big Brother contestants
 * Pinoy Big Brother: Celebrity Edition
 * Pinoy Big Brother: Celebrity Edition 2
 * Big Brother UK housemates
 * Big Brother (U.S. TV series) contestants
 * delete, better to just link to the parent article for the cast list. this is also different from other navboxes since the celebrities are not primarily known for being on Big Brother. Frietjes (talk) 13:08, 11 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Delete if indeed we are not meant to include cast. If the cast are removed, then the template is redundant to Template:Big Brother UK, which contains links to the list of celebrity housemates and each individual series. anemone  projectors  10:48, 12 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Keep I honestly can't see anything wrong in the infobox whatsoever, it has links to every series and its contestants, Wikipedia has gone crazy with these stupid infobox changes lately, even ones used for years without changes are suddenly becoming messy. I mean to delete this you might as well delete the Dancing on Ice celebrities one below also. Superdry19 (talk) 13:25, 12 August 2016 (UTC)
 * This isn't an infobox, it's a navbox. And yes, Dancing on Ice celebrities should be reduced to only contain the seasons and articles that are directly related to the production of the TV series.  --Rob Sinden (talk) 07:58, 15 August 2016 (UTC)


 * Keep They are just as useful as all the other templates for TV shows and I don't see any policy that forbids or even advises against them. Jim Michael (talk) 18:56, 12 August 2016 (UTC)
 * There's a longstanding consensus not to include cast or crew in navboxes. That is basically all this is...  --Rob Sinden (talk) 07:58, 15 August 2016 (UTC)
 * They're not cast or crew - they're real people rather than employees or fictional characters. Jim Michael (talk) 09:59, 16 August 2016 (UTC)
 * A celebrity appearance in a television show counts as the same thing. --Rob Sinden (talk) 11:35, 17 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Who (other than you) says that they count as the same thing? Their stay in the BB House isn't acting or guest-appearing. They're not presenting or performing. They're not working with or for the show, the channel or the company that produces the show. BB isn't scripted - it's not even structured reality. They're contestants who live in the BB House for the duration of their stay. Jim Michael (talk) 15:46, 17 August 2016 (UTC)


 * Keep They are useful and yes, maybe the celebrity is known for other things but the vast majority of celebrities who enter this show are hardly known for a lot in anyways. Also, if you're going to delete the Big Brother one then delete every reality show template. Reli source (talk) 00:50, 13 August 2016 (UTC)
 * It isn't WP:USEFUL, it causes WP:TEMPLATECREEP. Yes, we should reduce or delete any navbox that only contains a list of celebrities, per the longstanding consensus not to include cast or crew in navboxes.  --Rob Sinden (talk) 07:58, 15 August 2016 (UTC)
 * It's not more useful than List of Celebrity Big Brother housemates, which is the place to go to find a list of Celebrity Big Brother housemates, rather than a navbox. I'm sure the other templates will be discussed in due course. anemone  projectors  20:58, 15 August 2016 (UTC)
 * It doesn't only contain a list of celebs - it also contains links to each series. Jim Michael (talk) 09:59, 16 August 2016 (UTC)
 * These are already covered at Big Brother UK. --Rob Sinden (talk) 11:36, 17 August 2016 (UTC)


 * Delete - No need for this when we have List of Celebrity Big Brother housemates. – Davey 2010 Talk 22:33, 16 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Suggestion I'm suggesting we add the following templates to this discussion as well Pinoy Big Brother contestants Pinoy Big Brother: Celebrity Edition Pinoy Big Brother: Celebrity Edition 2 Big Brother UK housemates Big Brother (U.S. TV series) contestants. I searched through all the templates relating to this particular global reality show and think that we should discuss them all at once so there isn't another discussion about this down the road. Also there is an article that lists the same info for each of these templates as well like List of Pinoy Big Brother housemates, List of Big Brother (UK) housemates & List of Big Brother (U.S. TV series) houseguests.  ♪♫Al  ucard   16♫♪  01:42, 18 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Went ahead and added them to this discussion  ♪♫Al ucard   16♫♪  02:04, 18 August 2016 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure that the non-celebrity housemate templates fall under the same rationale. I mean, I'm in favour of deletion of these too, but the argument could be made that the non-celebrities are intrinsically linked to the show.  --Rob Sinden (talk) 07:56, 18 August 2016 (UTC)
 * I'm in agreement here, I think the non-celebrity templates should be discussed separately. Is it really fair for Alucard 16 to add templates to Robsinden's nomination, especially 7 days after the discussion started, when it's actually close to ending? I think the other templates should be withdrawn so they can each have a fair discussion. anemone  projectors  08:40, 18 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Removed. --Rob Sinden (talk) 08:51, 18 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Sorry about that I should have read up on how the process works that was my fault I'll nominate these separately. However falling under the same rational or not if the discussion is about not having cast and crew in navboxes per a longstanding consensus then it shouldn't matter if it was celebrity or non-celebrity as they are "cast" for the reality show in question.  ♪♫Al ucard   16♫♪  11:23, 18 August 2016 (UTC)
 * They're not cast or crew; they're contestants in a reality show. Jim Michael (talk) 15:29, 18 August 2016 (UTC)


 * Delete I'm in favor of deleting all these templates because there is a list page containing all the same information. Each of the series main articles also has a sidebar linking each contestant (celebrity & civilian) to either their own Wikipedia article or links them to the season/series they participated in (see Big Brother (U.S. TV series) for example.) Also for each season of a notable series there is a page listing participants of that particular season if they are not notable enough to have their own Wikipedia article (i.e. List of Big Brother 18 houseguests (U.S.), List of Big Brother 17 housemates (UK).) Templates like Big Brother in the United States lists the winning contestant from each season and a link to an article for more information about them along with key visible people like the presenters of the program. Templates like Big Brother UK are similar just omit the presenters currently. With so many places to find the same information here on Wikipedia we don't need these templates and they cause WP:TEMPLATECREEP. For shows like The Surreal Life that template can be restructured similar to one of the existing Big Brother series templates instead of a complete delete. This same discussion can also be applied to the templates of the Dancing with the Stars series as well.  ♪♫Al ucard   16♫♪  02:23, 18 August 2016 (UTC)


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Template:California toll roads
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 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).

The result of the discussion was delete. WP:REFUND into userspace applies for anyone seeking to create a bridge-only navbox, although there's no guarantee that won't swiftly find its way back to TfD. ~ Rob 13 <sup style="margin-left:-1.0ex;">Talk 04:54, 20 August 2016 (UTC)

WP:NENAN. This is better suited by a category, especially as many of the express lanes don't and shouldn't have their own article, and the list will keep growing as HOT lanes become more popular in California. Rschen7754 03:31, 11 August 2016 (UTC)
 * California toll roads
 * Comment. If it means anything, this use to just list the San Francisco Bay toll bridges, before I was bold and added the other roads. Would there be consensus to revert it back, or would that sort of be redundant to the "Bridges" row in SF Freeways? Zzyzx11 (talk) 04:05, 11 August 2016 (UTC)
 * I don't think SF Freeways should exist either, for similar reasons. A template of the SF Bay toll bridges might be useful, though I'm not really sure that it should exist. --Rschen7754 04:09, 11 August 2016 (UTC)
 * That's what this template was when I made it, a listing of the Bay Area bridges in one section, but it somehow evolved into what it is now. I'd love to revert it back to a bridge listing (as it saves clicks when browsing around for local bridges). -- w L &lt;speak&middot;check&gt; 09:05, 11 August 2016 (UTC)
 * delete, we already have precedent for deleting navboxes like Washington metropolitan area roads and other regional road groupings. Frietjes (talk) 13:10, 11 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Delete in the current form, or revise to a bridge-only box. Either would account for the consensus against similar navboxes for highway listings in the US.  Imzadi 1979  →   08:31, 15 August 2016 (UTC)
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