Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2023 May 22

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Template:Official Mexican website

 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template(s) or module(s) below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).

The result of the discussion was delete. Plastikspork ―Œ (talk) 19:42, 29 May 2023 (UTC) Unused template that does not seem to work. CambridgeBayWeather, Uqaqtuq (talk), Huliva 17:52, 22 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Official Mexican website
 * Delete per nomination. --WikiCleanerMan (talk) 00:19, 23 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete per nomination. The person who loves reading (talk) 01:57, 25 May 2023 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).

Template:Official US website

 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template(s) or module(s) below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).

The result of the discussion was delete. Plastikspork ―Œ (talk) 19:42, 29 May 2023 (UTC) Unused template that does not seem to work. CambridgeBayWeather, Uqaqtuq (talk), Huliva 17:52, 22 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Official US website
 * Delete per nomination. --WikiCleanerMan (talk) 00:19, 23 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete per nomination. The person who loves reading (talk) 01:57, 25 May 2023 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).

Template:Official Canadian website

 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template(s) or module(s) below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).

The result of the discussion was delete. Plastikspork ―Œ (talk) 19:41, 29 May 2023 (UTC) Unused template that does not seem to work. CambridgeBayWeather, Uqaqtuq (talk), Huliva 17:52, 22 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Official Canadian website
 * Delete per nomination. --WikiCleanerMan (talk) 00:19, 23 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete per nomination. The person who loves reading (talk) 01:57, 25 May 2023 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).

Template:TV Guide 100 Greatest Episodes 1997

 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template(s) or module(s) below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).

The result of the discussion was delete. Plastikspork ―Œ (talk) 19:39, 29 May 2023 (UTC) This is not what a navbox is for, better suited to an article if it really is notable. -- wooden superman  14:33, 22 May 2023 (UTC)
 * TV Guide 100 Greatest Episodes 1997
 * Keep. A navbox, as a type of navigation template, is defined as: a grouping of links used in multiple related articles to facilitate navigation between those articles which is exactly what this is, and exactly what it is for.  Similar to other award/recognition navboxes we use in television, this is not really any different than something like EmmyAward DramaWriting or EmmyAward ComedyWriting which have accompanying articles (Primetime Emmy Award for Outstanding Writing for a Drama Series and Primetime Emmy Award for Outstanding Writing for a Comedy Series respectively), or a plethora of other similar navbox/article combinations.   Butler Blog   (talk) 15:58, 22 May 2023 (UTC)
 * There is a small difference between this and the other templates you mentioned. A navbox about a subject like this should have a main article that has this information. The nabox links to TV Guide's 100 Greatest Episodes of All-Time but nowhere in that article is this list. Articles show that the subject is notable. Gonnym (talk) 16:41, 22 May 2023 (UTC)
 * In this instance, it just has the first ten entries of each list. But that could be rectified (I seem to recall intending that, but no doubt was distracted by other things).   Butler Blog   (talk) 17:37, 22 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Once the article has the list (and sourced) then the navbox will have greater validity (WP:NAVBOX point #4). Gonnym (talk) 18:31, 22 May 2023 (UTC)
 * I added those tables to the article. This also exposed a small issue with the template for the 1997 list - items 11-20 are missing (which I will fix in both the article and template).   Butler Blog   (talk) 20:15, 22 May 2023 (UTC)
 * The full lists should not be added to the article. This is WP:INDISCRIMINATE WP:LISTCRUFT. -- wooden  superman  10:07, 23 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Also, I think there may be a WP:COPYVIO issue as the list would be the intellectual property of the magazine. -- wooden superman  12:40, 23 May 2023 (UTC)
 * This is nothing like an Emmy template. This is a list in one of many magazines that may publish lists of this kind, not a major award.  We cannot have navboxes for any magazine article that happens to have produced a list on their opinion of what were the best TV episodes.    etc. -- wooden  superman  09:43, 23 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Obviously, I disagree. It's important enough to the television project that there's a request for articles for each of them (along with Emmy articles).  If it were something other than TV Guide, I'd tend to agree with your assessment that it is indiscriminate.  But it's not a random mag - it's TV Guide, which, when the original list was created in 1997, was still the definitive source for all things television and as Gonnym pointed out, it's a notable subject (and list), which is why the television project lists these as high priority articles for creation.    Butler Blog   (talk) 11:29, 23 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Even The Sight and Sound Greatest Films of All Time 2022, probably the most prestigious magazine film list in the world, only lists the top 10 from each list. -- wooden superman  12:21, 23 May 2023 (UTC)
 * If we're going to cherry-pick, then I'll point out that AFI's 100 Years...100 Movies includes the complete list, and has an accompanying template Template:AFI's 100 Years...100 Movies (1998) which also includes the complete list. Likewise, AFI's list is not a major award, and they've produced a list on their opinion of what were the best [movies].  I get it - WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS works both directions: you cannot make a convincing argument based solely on whether other articles do or  do not  exist (emphasis added).  That's why I've pointed out this is notable because it's TV Guide (as the AFI list is notable because it's AFI).  It's not some random mag or somebody's blog.  At the time of the original list, people didn't go to the Internet or Wikipedia for information on what to watch - they went to TV Guide.  It's a recognized source for both the TV project (WP:TVRS) and in general WP:RSP, and (as already noted) it's a list of articles that the TV project has noted as high priorty.   Butler Blog   (talk) 14:33, 23 May 2023 (UTC)
 * I'm inclined to think that AFI's 100 Years...100 Movies (1998) isn't a suitable topic for a navbox either, along with Sight and Sound Poll. I'm not suggesting that these episodes shouldn't have articles, we just don't need a navbox for them. -- wooden  superman  15:29, 23 May 2023 (UTC)


 * Delete This is not an award navbox. This is a listing from a magazine which in itself is a non-defining for template. A simple list as it is on the main article is sufficient. The article is notable on its own and this navbox is extremely bloated to be capable of simple and clear navigation. --WikiCleanerMan (talk) 00:19, 23 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Per WP:NOTDUPE It is neither improper nor uncommon to simultaneously have a category, a list, and a navigation template that all cover the same topic. These systems of organizing information are considered to be complementary, not inappropriately duplicative. As stated above, it's notable.    Butler Blog   (talk) 11:35, 23 May 2023 (UTC)
 * But on top of WP:INDISCRIMINATE, this also fails multiple points of WP:NAVBOX. Why would you need to navigate between episodes of completely different series? -- wooden  superman  12:22, 23 May 2023 (UTC)
 * delete, as stated above, TV Guide's 100 Greatest Episodes of All-Time is sufficient, otherwise this is navbox overkill. Frietjes (talk) 19:52, 25 May 2023 (UTC)
 * That is not a valid reason for deletion per WP:NOTDUPE; they are complementary, not inappropriately duplicative.  Butler Blog   (talk) 20:45, 25 May 2023 (UTC)
 * yes, it is a valid reason for deletion. dozens of these have been deleted in the past for the same reason, see for example, this discussion. Frietjes (talk) 15:14, 26 May 2023 (UTC)
 * The specific discussion referenced is not and apples-to-apples comparison. It is of templates that are essentially duplicative of other templates (there already was a template for the AFI article). Regarding additional similar discussions, I understand that people can have opinions that may not be in line with the guideline and they're welcome to that opinion.  But that doesn't nullify the fact that a guideline exists; which in this case is WP:NOTDUPE: It is neither improper nor uncommon to simultaneously have a category, a list, and a navigation template that all cover the same topic. These systems of organizing information are considered to be complementary, not inappropriately duplicative.   Butler Blog   (talk) 16:01, 26 May 2023 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).

Template:TV Guide 100 Greatest Episodes 2009

 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template(s) or module(s) below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).

The result of the discussion was delete. Plastikspork ―Œ (talk) 19:39, 29 May 2023 (UTC) This is not what a navbox is for, better suited to an article if it really is notable. -- wooden superman  14:33, 22 May 2023 (UTC)
 * TV Guide 100 Greatest Episodes 2009
 * Keep. A navbox, as a type of navigation template, is defined as: a grouping of links used in multiple related articles to facilitate navigation between those articles which is exactly what this is, and exactly what it is for.  Similar to other award/recognition navboxes we use in television, this is not really any different than something like EmmyAward DramaWriting or EmmyAward ComedyWriting which have accompanying articles (Primetime Emmy Award for Outstanding Writing for a Drama Series and Primetime Emmy Award for Outstanding Writing for a Comedy Series respectively), or a plethora of other similar navbox/article combinations.   Butler Blog   (talk) 15:58, 22 May 2023 (UTC)


 * Delete This is not an award navbox. This is a listing from a magazine which in itself is a non-defining for template. A simple list as it is on the main article is sufficient. The article is notable on its own and this navbox is extremely bloated to be capable of simple and clear navigation. --WikiCleanerMan (talk) 00:19, 23 May 2023 (UTC)
 * delete, excessive navboxing, and per prior discussion: see for example, this discussion. Frietjes (talk) 15:15, 26 May 2023 (UTC)
 * The example given is not apples-to-apples as it's a discussion of templates that are duplicative of another template. This discussion is whether a navbox should exist when there is already an article. Template/article/category overlap is not considered duplicative nor excessive per WP:NOTDUPE, and based on that guideline, using an argument of duplication is not sufficient for deletion.  Butler Blog   (talk) 12:00, 29 May 2023 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).

Template:Alignd column
<div class="boilerplate tfd vfd tfd-closed mw-archivedtalk" style="background-color: #e3f9df; padding: 0 10px 0 10px; border: 1px solid #AAAAAA;">
 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template(s) or module(s) below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).

The result of the discussion was delete. ✗ plicit  13:11, 29 May 2023 (UTC) Used only on one old talk page. Subst there and delete. Gonnym (talk) 12:19, 22 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Alignd column
 * Delete Subst per nomination. --WikiCleanerMan (talk) 00:19, 23 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete per nomination. The person who loves reading (talk) 01:57, 25 May 2023 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).

Template:8TeamBracket-SWC
<div class="boilerplate tfd vfd tfd-closed mw-archivedtalk" style="background-color: #e3f9df; padding: 0 10px 0 10px; border: 1px solid #AAAAAA;">
 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template(s) or module(s) below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).

The result of the discussion was delete. ✗ plicit  13:07, 29 May 2023 (UTC) Unused bracket template. Gonnym (talk) 12:09, 22 May 2023 (UTC)
 * 8TeamBracket-SWC
 * Delete per nomination. --WikiCleanerMan (talk) 00:19, 23 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete per nomination. The person who loves reading (talk) 01:57, 25 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Delete per nomination. -fuzzy510 (talk) 06:44, 29 May 2023 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).