Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2024 July 13

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Template:Blink
This template has been deleted multiple times. The creator removed a speedy deletion tag, so rather than get in a dispute, here's a TFD. – Jonesey95 (talk) 18:10, 5 July 2024 (UTC) Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Primefac (talk) 21:27, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Blink
 * The previous, unrelated version of this template was deleted because it didn't work (it used the actual blink tag, which has been deprecated for around twenty years). There was not a consensus to forbid any template from ever existing on the English Wikipedia with the pagename, although if it would make you happy, I could rename this to blink2 so that it isn't a "recreation". jp×g🗯️ 18:13, 5 July 2024 (UTC)
 * , what do you want this gross thing for? Folly Mox (talk) 23:57, 5 July 2024 (UTC)
 * There's an article about the blink element, whose primary illustration is rendered with this template, which makes text blink. There is also a section about the deprecated blink and marquee tags at HTML element. It's obvious that the template is not appropriate to randomly be used for emphasis in article text, which is why there's a bold exclamation-pointed sentence on the /doc page telling you not to use it this way. Indeed, we have lots of content that would be inappropriate to put in random articles, like File:Communist Hammer and Sickle Star Flag.svg or File:Flag of the Ku Klux Klan.svg (which are illegal to display in some countries). The tag was quite bad, but hopefully we can agree it was less bad than the Khmer Rouge, whose insigna we display in their article; I think we can similarly depict a tag in the articles about tags, or deprecated HTML tags more broadly.
 * It's true that it would be in theory possible to delete the template, and replace its invocations entirely with inline formatting on the two articles where it's in use -- but that inline formatting would still require TemplateStyles, so it would still require a stylesheet to be located somewhere. The idea of attaching a  subpage to a mainspace article, and then invoking that stylesheet from a different mainspace article (or having two identical .css pages on two different mainspace pages) seems quite obtuse and unorthodox to me, especially if a template for doing this already exists and works fine.
 * In general, my understanding of the purpose of Wikipedia templates is that they're supposed to allow code to be used on multiple pages, rather than forcing people to manually copypasta large complicated blocks of 100% identical code (in this case,  and , and additionally a content-model change to enable the second to be loaded from a separate page because it can't be styled inline with MediaWiki). jp×g🗯️ 00:39, 6 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Just like with Template:Marquee, you build it and people use it and we end up with horrible (User:Alpine0x37 User:One cookie) GeoCities like pages. Gonnym (talk) 12:14, 6 July 2024 (UTC)
 * I don't think it is reasonable for us to try to completely prevent people from making silly userpages, that doing so should be an objective of our template system, or that it should take a higher priority than using said system to write articles. jp×<b style="color: #029D74">g</b>🗯️</b> 06:02, 7 July 2024 (UTC)
 * At any rate, if it is really earnestly demanded with gusto and urgency, I can write something that makes it physically impossible to use this in userspace, or perhaps on any article other than HTML element or Blink element, but this seems unneceessary to me. <b style="font-family: monospace; color:#E35BD8"><b style="color:#029D74">jp</b>×<b style="color: #029D74">g</b>🗯️</b> 04:24, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
 * I find neither argument convincing here. Deleting blink won't stop people from building GeoCities-style pages if they want to, and I'm not even convinced we should care if they do. But I also don't see the value in a fake (because it doesn't actually use the blink HTML tag) self-demonstrating example in pages like blink element - it seems to me that people can understand what an element blinking means without it being shown to them. And I agree G4 doesn't apply. Since the burden is normally on the nominator in deletion discussions weak keep I guess. * Pppery * <sub style="color:#800000">it has begun... 00:48, 9 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Delete: the 2007 discussion covers all the same ground that I probably would have processed this as a G4. If you really want to demonstrate in article space blinking without encouraging all the things a template encourages (or for that matter, marqueeing), consider creating an SVG (which can accept the same CSS). Izno (talk) 14:52, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
 * To whit, the fundamental reason neither of these templates should exist is WP:Accessibility. There's a reason the actual elements were nuked off the planet and that it took another decade before CSS finally added a way to fuck around with the same visibility "properties". Izno (talk) 14:55, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Surely no more offensive than a guy having his head cut off with a giant sword, which we have a great many illustrations of at decapitation. <b style="font-family: monospace; color:#E35BD8"><b style="color:#029D74">jp</b>×<b style="color: #029D74">g</b>🗯️</b> 04:22, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
 * <p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * Delete per Izno's accessibility argument and because this template is not the blink property which makes it incorrect to use in HTML element. As a personal opinion, we should also make life as hard as possible for any user wanting to use these very annoying effects and not create for them easy to use templates. Gonnym (talk) 06:16, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Well, the caption for it at HTML element and Blink element say explicitly that it's a simulation of the effect using CSS. I submit here that the article pipe is illustrated, not with a pipe, but a digital representations of a photograph depicting a pipe. <b style="font-family: monospace; color:#E35BD8"><b style="color:#029D74">jp</b>×<b style="color: #029D74">g</b>🗯️</b> 04:20, 22 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Comment couldn't uses at blink element be replaced with animated gifs? (same with marquee) -- 65.92.247.96 (talk) 08:57, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
 * A gif also works in addition to an SVG. One of those is probably easier to manufacture. Izno (talk) 21:46, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Keep, per JPxG. It's got a real use (illustrating old HTML capabilities), and it does it succinctly. Whether or not people could maybe use it to make their user page look a bit ugly is irrelevant. Arguments for deletion seem weak to me (no examples of it actually being misused in a user page has been shown; accessiblity issues would be exacerbated if blink demos were replaced with SVG/GIF files or bespoke inline CSS). Blinking html was ugly but this template is helpful to convey that historical ugliness. <span style="border-radius:3px;padding:2px 3px;background:#ffc3b3;color:#552a2a;font-weight:bold;font-family:monospace">BugGhost 🦗👻 12:11, 17 July 2024 (UTC)

Template:Team data Royal Challengers Bengaluru
<div class="boilerplate tfd vfd tfd-closed mw-archivedtalk" style="background-color: #e3f9df; padding: 0 10px 0 10px; border: 1px solid #AAAAAA;">
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more templates or modules. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).

The result of the discussion was delete. ✗ plicit  23:19, 20 July 2024 (UTC) Unused Plastikspork <sub style="font-size: 60%">―Œ <sup style="margin-left:-3ex">(talk) 17:30, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Team data Royal Challengers Bengaluru
 * Team data Chennai Super Kings
 * Delete per nomination. --WikiCleanerMan (talk) 23:40, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template or module's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Taiwan political party templates
This family of templates contains just wikilinks, maybe with an icon (mostly used for decoration in violation of MOS:ICON). Over the last few years we've been moving away from the "one template for every version of X" system (be it for political parties, national sports, etc) in order to allow for easier updating and centralised coding. This is also a good example of "text stored in a template". Primefac (talk) 23:29, 26 June 2024 (UTC) Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Izno (talk) 15:14, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Congress Party Alliance
 * DPP/short
 * Green Party Taiwan
 * Hakka Party
 * Independent (Taiwan)
 * Kuomintang Party
 * New Party Taiwan
 * New Power Party
 * Non-Partisan Solidarity Union
 * People First Party
 * Taiwan Constitution Association
 * Taiwan Farmers Party
 * Taiwan Home Party
 * Taiwan Independence Party
 * Taiwan People's Party
 * Taiwan Solidarity Union
 * Third Society Party
 * Young China Party
 * I looked at most of these templates and several transclusion cases. I'm not seeing a violation of MOS:ICON, but I agree that this is a lot of templates for what could be easily accomplished with a single template taking a single parameter (and maybe an optional boolean controlling icon display). I'm thinking combine and replace, although I'm not presently volunteering to do the work, since I've been pretty busy and will almost certainly forget. Folly Mox (talk) 14:13, 28 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Support. I agree that simple links should not be hosted in a template. There is just no reason for that. If such a thing is actually valid, then there probably should be a template for every single concept. In reality, writing New Power Party or New Power Party is no different and if NPP is valid as a redirect, then it would have been valid as redirect, which NPP is not. This just seems to bypass the basic system of how links work here. Other than that, we already have a module that acts as database for political party names and colors. So that should already take care of this. Regarding the icons, I also agree, but for some reason during the merge a few years back, we left the group of templates with icons out of it. So if this passes, we should take care of the other templates in Category:Political party name templates (which also includes US templates like Template:GOP, which is exactly the same). Gonnym (talk) 14:58, 1 July 2024 (UTC)
 * <p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"> Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.

Template:～～～～
<div class="boilerplate tfd vfd tfd-closed mw-archivedtalk" style="background-color: #e3f9df; padding: 0 10px 0 10px; border: 1px solid #AAAAAA;">
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more templates or modules. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).

The result of the discussion was merge to Template:4~. Izno (talk) 16:18, 20 July 2024 (UTC) I do not dispute claims or counterlaims about being useful for CJK users, but the only difference from 4~ is that this one warns the user if it is not substituted, which would be a useful feature that should be incorporated into 4~ and its relatives. Here is one statement from the talk page that is more recent than the previous TfD in 2020: –<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b> ( d c̄ ) 07:59, 13 July 2024 (UTC)


 * The template is template-protected, so I cannot add the TfD tag. –<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b> ( d c̄ ) 08:00, 13 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Delete for the reason quoted above. Nardog (talk) 02:58, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Merge and redirect with 4~ -- to add the subst warning, and have a searchable redirect in templatespace for CJK users. -- 65.92.247.96 (talk) 08:59, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template or module's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.