Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2024 June 22

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Template:Edit semi-protected

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more templates or modules. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).

The result of the discussion was Not merged. Clear consensus to keep Request edit (largely procedural point as this was withdrawn following the start of the discussion, however appears to have been commented on since the withdrawal).

For the rest of the templates, there is no consensus to merge, taking into account the technical restrictions pointed out by SilverLocust/Anomie and a few conditional !votes based on the behaviour being kept (which doesn't appear to have a solution). The consensus for this discussion has not been helped by the fact there are several !supports being cast referencing a vote making an !oppose point, which makes it more difficult to assign weight to the outcome they are desiring. If an alternative template is made, and it works as per the current one, I can see the consensus being different. (non-admin closure) Mdann52 (talk) 13:32, 14 July 2024 (UTC) Propose merging Template:Edit semi-protected with Template:Request edit.
 * Edit semi-protected
 * Edit extended-protected
 * Edit template-protected
 * Edit fully-protected
 * Edit interface-protected
 * Request edit

As I have (surprisingly) recently discovered, this entire family of templates auto-detects the protection level of the template for which the edit request is being made. This means that an FPER placed on a template-protected template will result in exactly the same thing as a TPER. Because of this, it seems to me that there is little reason to keep these all as separate templates, instead using the more obvious and reasonably-named request edit as the base template for this family (instead of the latter template being used as a dab for all five). Primefac (talk) 15:53, 22 May 2024 (UTC)I have struck request edit since most of the participants feel it's not well-suited for the final target. Primefac (talk) 13:00, 23 May 2024 (UTC) PAGE]]) 02:30, 3 June 2024 (UTC) Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Toadette Edit! 18:42, 22 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Merge the first five together but keep request edit as is since COI edit requests are, and need to be, a separate process (a page someone has a COI with can also be protected). * Pppery * it has begun... 16:02, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Perhaps a parameter such as  or   could be used to flag the type of edit request that is being made, which would allow all six templates to be merged into Template:Request edit. That would still keep them a separate process.  Adam Black  t &bull;  c 16:50, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Is there any reason to do that, though? It seems to just make things more complicated for everyone. * Pppery * it has begun... 18:30, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
 * I don't see how it complicates things, it streamlines the process of requesting an edit. Btw, has been deprecated, so you're already meant to use a different template - .  Adam Black  t &bull;  c 22:27, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Striking my merge !vote per below discussion. * Pppery * it has begun... 01:38, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Request edit used to be for COI, and it's a generic name that could refer to it or edit partially-blocked as well. Snowmanonahoe (talk · contribs · typos) 16:03, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Support Merge (Non-Admin vote) Babysharkboss2 was here!!  Dr. Wu is NOT a Doctor! 16:44, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Being an admin doesn't mean very much here--there's no need to point out you aren't one. Snowmanonahoe (talk · contribs · typos) 17:00, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Merge the first five and keep Request edit as a disambiguation per . I was also rather surprised and amused to find out that the edit request templates automatically emulate each other based on the page's protection level. —TechnoSquirrel69 (sigh) 18:37, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
 * As no one has suggested a title for the proposed merged template, perhaps Edit protected? —TechnoSquirrel69 (sigh) 18:48, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Should probably have "request" in its name. Gonnym (talk) 19:29, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Then maybe Protected edit request to match the Module it invokes, though I should note that the possibly enticing shortcut PER is already a template for the Peruvian flag. —TechnoSquirrel69 (sigh) 20:10, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
 * PTER and/or ProtER? Mathglot (talk) 18:13, 25 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Or even TPER, based on extension of, and analogy with WP:TPE? Mathglot (talk) 01:23, 26 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Merge first five unless there is some yet-to-be-discovered reason to have them separate. Gonnym (talk) 19:30, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
 * request edit needs a new name, since that's not what it does. Other than that, I see no issue with merging the others. Izno (talk) 21:31, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Ok, I see an issue (based on the VPT chatter), and the underlying module already deals with these reasonably. Oppose. Izno (talk) 06:13, 11 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Comment [Edit: Oppose]: These do not behave identically when the edit request is to an unprotected page. For example, you could use Edit extended-protected for an article that is within an WP:ARBECR topic area but which has not presently been protected. (If the page is protected, you have to use force to force a different protection level the default protection level specified by the wrapper .) SilverLocust 💬 23:38, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Need to make sure the force stuff isn't broken, it is needed sometimes. — xaosflux  Talk 15:51, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Because I don't think it's possible to merge these without breaking current functionality (as I explain below), I am changing my comment to an "oppose". (I don't oppose creating a sixth template with no default level that instead would say when the protection level could not be detected, but I oppose redirecting or deleting the five templates proposed for merging.) SilverLocust 💬 20:56, 1 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Comment this template set is missing a template for requesting edits that are editfiltered, so autodetection doesn't help, when you need extra rights due to an edit filter instead of page protection. If these are merged, will a switch be available to select a rights level for that situation? -- 65.92.244.237 (talk) 02:33, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Oppose Except the last, they're all wrappers for Module:Protected edit request with slightly different arguments, so in that sense they're already merged. But we should probably keep the slightly different behavior in that Edit fully-protected should default to fully-protected if the auto-detection fails, Edit semi-protected to semi-protected, and so on rather than turning them all into redirects to a single wrapper. Request edit should probably have no default, if that's reasonable. Anomie⚔ 12:01, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Weak merge, now that the last has been struck, keep different behavior defaults if feasible per Anomie. I also agree that with everything already under one-module it really doesn't make that much of a difference. 2601:5CC:8300:A7F0:4CF1:7456:BBC:F8B5 (talk) 20:30, 24 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Support merge - I do like Anomie's point about the default action Happy Editing-- IAm Chaos  01:39, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Conditional oppose merge per Anomie. These separate 'templates' are just wrappers for that edit request module really, so not any duplicated template code to worry about. Let's not possibly cause unintended behaviour for a template that's used at least hundreds of times everyday, especially with the auto-detect failover. There are other potential complications like what 65.92.244.237 has written above. Though, consider this vote invalidated if it's possible to merge all of these templates together without changing the behaviour and functionality of these templates. — AP 499D25  (talk)  05:56, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Conditional support creating a template with auto-detection, as long as the existing templates are kept per SilverLocust and Anomie. Rusty4321  talk contribs 14:21, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Support, but the target should maybe be Protected edit request. Request edit may be the destination or redirect to a different merge target, since hatnotes can direct users to more appropriate templates. SWinxy (talk) 23:30, 27 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Support the currently-proposed merge of the first five. Agree the final template name should be something like Protected edit request. Elli (talk &#124; contribs) 13:18, 31 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Oppose. WP:ECR doesn't always get applied using WP:ECP. Therefore, using Edit extended-protected on a page that is not extended confirmed protected makes sense. The autodetection will not be able to handle that case. Add that to the other edge cases described above by other editors and it's clear that this merge will create more problems than in will solve. Nickps (talk) 16:08, 1 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Obviously I don't oppose a merge if the current default behavior is retained. Nickps (talk) 16:11, 1 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Unless I am mistaken EPER doesn't currently recognize non-ECP pages that also happen to be under ARBECR. If I am mistaken, then yes, the post-merge template will be able to handle it because no functionality is being lost (just renamed). Primefac (talk) 16:17, 1 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Well, I'm going by what said. If the auto-detection fails, EPER defaults to ECP. So, while it doesn't recognise that the page is under ARBECR, it still handles the situation correctly. I also just noticed that  has already raised this issue. Nickps (talk) 16:28, 1 June 2024 (UTC)
 * There would be a loss in current functionality, Primefac. For example,  would no longer work.
 * Each of the five wrapper templates proposed for merging has a default level. E.g., Edit extended-protected is  (where the default there is  ). If the page to be edited is unprotected or if   is used, then that default level is used. If these were all redirected to one template, then there would be a loss of functionality unless someone knows how to tell a module not merely which wrapper is invoking a module (since there would only be one merged wrapper), but rather which redirect is being used to transclude the wrapper that invokes the module (and I don't think that is possible). If no default is provided when invoking the module, then it presently breaks with the error message  when the page is unprotected or   is used. SilverLocust 💬 20:21, 1 June 2024 (UTC)
 * @SilverLocust The module could use  to get the text of the current page and then search it for one of the redirect templates. --Ahecht ([[User talk:Ahecht|TALK
 * That would potentially break when viewing old revisions/permalinks, and probably need to take into account possibilities like multiple requests on a page (compare Module:Is infobox in lead's difficulty of handling multiple infoboxes). I prefer not to have templates behave differently when viewing permalinks/old revisions of a page. (Ahecht also replied at Village pump (technical), where Nickps asked whether this is possible. PrimeHunter replied expressing opposition to the suggestion.) SilverLocust 💬 04:41, 3 June 2024 (UTC)
 * The simple solution for new uses is to transition from  to specifying the level to force, eg.  . I agree there's no straightforward solution for existing uses, so we should just leave the existing templates as is, but stop advertising them in preloads and documentation pages. –  SD0001  (talk) 06:58, 6 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Why exactly would something like  be better than  ? Other than to satisfy a misguided desire for Edit semi-protected to be a redirect rather than the wrapper it is now? Anomie⚔ 11:53, 6 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Support per reduced clutter of templates to ensu8re a smoother and more effective way of getting editor's attentions regarding articles and editing. The move would be very helpful in sorting edits an allowing -people to use those templates better as it would be easier and more effective as opposed to having them separate. 97.77.64.90 (talk) 19:09, 18 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Support, just makes sense and simplifies things on the technical side DimensionalFusion   (talk)  20:42, 18 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Support, The auto-detection feature makes the distinction between semi-protected and fully-protected templates unnecessary for users requesting edits. This would streamline the editing process and improve clarity. 2603:8080:B8F0:5360:70CF:3BF2:4A5C:A546 (talk) 16:46, 19 June 2024 (UTC)
 *  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.


 * Comment Good luck finding "more thorough discussion and clearer consensus". The nomination is flawed in that it overlooks that the different templates have different behavior if the autodetection fails (and also if force is used?). Opinions seem largely split between those who seem unaware of that and so support merging, and those who are aware of it and want to keep that behavior. Anomie⚔ 20:31, 22 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Yes, @ToadetteEdit, a relist was not appropriate in this situation. What should have happened is a request probably WT:TFD to close the discussion, since several of the regular closers have participated already. Izno (talk) 20:58, 22 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Comment In my opinion, none of the editors who support the merge have adequately addressed the problems identified by myself, Anomie and SilverLocust. Moreover, the simplification in the process that they wish to achieve could also be done by following SilverLocust's idea of creating a sixth template with no default level that instead would say when the protection level could not be detected. By making that sixth template and updating the procedures at WP:MAKINGEREQ to use it we would get the best of both worlds. The editors wouldn't need to use a different template depending on the protection level, but at the same time they would be able to use the old templates with yes to force another level when appropriate. Nickps (talk) 14:04, 23 June 2024 (UTC)
 * I suppose this is somewhat directed at, , and , and maybe , but if this discussion is closed with no major changes taking place, and this RFD indicated that the generic-name redirects should be kept as-is, is everyone really saying that we should have inappropriately-named redirects pointing to templates that can detect the protection of a page, but because we don't want to change those wrappers we're just going to keep everything completely as-is? Primefac (talk) 15:34, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
 * I'm not following your logic there. I'm not seeing anything inappropriate about redirecting edit protected -> edit fully-protected given that the target works for both kinds of protection. And, looking back at the May discussion I could be convinced to retarget any redirects that don't specifically talk about protection to the disambiguation page request edit. * Pppery * it has begun... 15:42, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
 * My initial concern was that we have a bunch of generically-named redirects (e.g. ) that are pointing at Edit fully-protected. Those in favour of keeping the redirects as-is said that since FPER auto-detected the protection level anyway, it made no sense to retarget. However, when I came here to suggest getting rid of the distinction since the templates can all auto-detect anyway (i.e. just have one "edit request" template), those same people say that the auto-detection is insufficient and thus we have to keep all of the SPER/TPER/FPER/etc separate. I honestly haven't evaluated the whole discussion here to actually see what way the wind is blowing, but I just wanted to check with those opposed that I am reading their concerns properly. Primefac (talk) 15:58, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
 * IMO the main problem with your RFD was that you're trying to turn functional (if imperfect) redirects into redirects to a disambiguation page that doesn't function properly as a template. Turn Request edit into a template that actually requests an edit and I don't think anyone would object to changing the redirects. Nor do I see anyone here objecting to that idea of making Request edit function to request an edit ; the objections are all about breaking the fallback behavior if the auto-detection fails (and the force parameter) for all the other templates. Anomie⚔ 15:48, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
 * That's fair, and also the reason why I withdrew in favour of coming here. I suppose the main reason I never thought about using request edit in that way is because it used to be used for COI or pblocked requests (which are not covered under the SPER/FPER/etc scheme) and needed that disambiguation, but if folks think that having is a useful way to take care of these redirects, I'm all for it. Primefac (talk) 15:58, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
 * So, it's been over two weeks since the last comment here, now. Looks like there is overall a consensus in favour of the merge. Are we gonna close this? — AP 499D25  (talk)  14:12, 11 July 2024 (UTC)
 * An uninvolved editor will assess the consensus and make a decision. If you wish to speed up the process, feel free to post it at WP:ANRFC. Primefac (talk) 16:25, 11 July 2024 (UTC)
 * When this is closed, can someone ping me, so that I can check that my script User:Terasail/Edit Request Tool is up to date with the changes decided here. I haven't read through this discussion or what the changes are that have been proposed but I do intend to keep my script up to date with any changes that come from this. Terasail [✉️] 17:24, 11 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Personally, while the vote count seems in favor of merging, I stand by my earlier statement that the nomination was flawed and most of the supporters were unaware of the differences in behavior that cannot be preserved in any reasonable "merge". Anomie⚔ 17:41, 11 July 2024 (UTC)
 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template or module's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
 * as nominator - I forgot I no longer have TE/haven't requested it back, so will need the nomination templates removed. - as per above discussion. Mdann52 (talk) 13:34, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Sorted. Primefac (talk) 13:41, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Template:Snipertron12 Project

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more templates or modules. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).

The result of the discussion was delete. Plastikspork ―Œ (talk) 23:43, 29 June 2024 (UTC) This navbox links only to a user page. DB 1729 talk 18:29, 22 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Snipertron12 Project


 * Thats because I haven't started the project and it isn't in full swing. Snipertron12   Talk  09:54, 23 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Userfy Not ready for mainspace. --WikiCleanerMan (talk) 00:02, 26 June 2024 (UTC)
 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template or module's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Template:Sri Ramakrishna Group
<div class="boilerplate tfd vfd tfd-closed mw-archivedtalk" style="background-color: #e3f9df; padding: 0 10px 0 10px; border: 1px solid #AAAAAA;">
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more templates or modules. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).

The result of the discussion was delete. Plastikspork <sub style="font-size: 60%">―Œ <sup style="margin-left:-3ex">(talk) 23:42, 29 June 2024 (UTC) Navbox with no links. DB 1729 talk 16:48, 22 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Sri Ramakrishna Group
 * Delete per nomination. --WikiCleanerMan (talk) 00:01, 26 June 2024 (UTC)
 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template or module's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Template:The Swearengens
<div class="boilerplate tfd vfd tfd-closed mw-archivedtalk" style="background-color: #e3f9df; padding: 0 10px 0 10px; border: 1px solid #AAAAAA;">
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more templates or modules. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).

The result of the discussion was delete. ✗ plicit  14:18, 29 June 2024 (UTC) One useful blue link in the body. Two of the three redirect to the subject. DB 1729 talk 13:00, 22 June 2024 (UTC)
 * The Swearengens
 * Delete per nomination. --WikiCleanerMan (talk) 00:01, 26 June 2024 (UTC)
 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template or module's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Template:Silverwing
<div class="boilerplate tfd vfd tfd-closed mw-archivedtalk" style="background-color: #e3f9df; padding: 0 10px 0 10px; border: 1px solid #AAAAAA;">
 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more templates or modules. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).

The result of the discussion was delete. ✗ plicit  14:17, 29 June 2024 (UTC) Per WP:NENAN The Banner  <i style="color:maroon">talk</i> 10:37, 22 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Silverwing
 * Delete There used to be (barely) enough stuff to warrant a navbox here. Then I BLARed most of it and now there isn't. * Pppery * <sub style="color:#800000">it has begun... 01:39, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Delete per nomination. --WikiCleanerMan (talk) 22:04, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template or module's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.