Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2024 March 8

 &lt; March 7 March 9 &gt;

Template:Anarchies

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more templates or modules. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).

The result of the discussion was delete. (non-admin closure) Queen of Hearts she/theytalk/stalk 06:10, 16 March 2024 (UTC) Per discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Anarchism, this is the navbox associated with Articles for deletion/List of anarchist communities, which was recently dissolved at AfD. This navbox should be removed based on the navbox criteria, namely not having a coherent subject (per the AfD), having little to no interrelation between the listed items, and in some cases having tenuous connections to anarchism at all. czar 15:31, 8 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Anarchies


 * Oppose The navbar does have a coherent topic. There is a degree of relation between the listed pages, but I do understand the criticism about some links not having a clear relation to Anarchism itself. Since that is the case, I suggest just editing the box, not deleting it.
 * Mangokeylime (talk) 21:12, 9 March 2024 (UTC)
 * @Mangokeylime, did you see the above links? We just deleted the article on "anarchist communities" because it isn't a clear/coherent concept. It's possible to navigate between individual types of communities (intentional communities, squats, etc.) but the idea of there being one larger "anarchies" isn't held up by sourcing. czar  19:31, 12 March 2024 (UTC)
 * @Czar You have changed my mind. Considering the page is literally deleted, it seems bizarre to have a navbox. It's just a shame that this list will be deleted. Mangokeylime (talk) 01:50, 13 March 2024 (UTC)
 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template or module's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Template:Cahiers du Cinéma's Top Ten Films

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more templates or modules. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).

The result of the discussion was delete. Those in favour of deletion have a slight numerical advantage, but their concerns are also reasonable given that the "all time list" is not mentioned in either related article, and to many seemed arbitrary and out-of-date. Primefac (talk) 12:27, 3 April 2024 (UTC) Subjective list, should be deleted for all the same reasons the AFI and Sight and Sound ones were. See discussions here and here -- wooden superman  16:23, 29 February 2024 (UTC) Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Doczilla  Ohhhhhh, no! 06:42, 8 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Cahiers du Cinéma's Top Ten Films
 * Huge Oppose (Keep), and let's get the Sight and Sound navbox back which was closed way too soon with very little editor participation. The Cahiers du Cinema's list is one of the two most-accepted lists of all-time best films, along with Sight and Sound. Randy Kryn (talk) 23:58, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
 * But, as the previous discussions point out, they are subjective. They're not even awards. And, the list isn't even shown at the article. Appetite to recreate the Sight and Sound one was not expressed with this more recent discussion. -- wooden  superman  06:55, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Both this and the Sight and Sound polls are considered determinative as rankings of best films. The rankings change in S&S every ten years, which is what makes the concise navbox very navigational and informative (i.e. being able to quickly view the swing of the ranking of a film, such as Citizen Kane, throughout the years). Randy Kryn (talk) 12:14, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Where is the data for the "all time" poll even coming from, it's not even mentioned at the article. The article shows the result of an annual poll, which changes over time, that is clearly not definitive.  And information belongs on an article, not a navbox.  There are enough bona fide awards templates cluttering up articles as it is, we don't need navboxes for results of polls too. -- wooden  superman  12:23, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
 * You see clutter where others see valued information. Randy Kryn (talk) 12:28, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Valued information belongs in articles. Navboxes are for navigating between defined sets. -- wooden  superman  12:30, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Okay, think I've found the source here. An article from 2008.  I can't see any world where the films that were decided by a single publication as the "best ever" in 2008 can be seen as definitive today.  Also, there seem to be eleven films in the navbox.  We cannot use magazine polls as good material for navboxes.  Hundreds of publications publish polls all the time, we cannot discriminate between this and any other magazine poll, like Empire's, etc, etc, etc... -- wooden  superman  12:30, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Thanks, I've added 'per 2008' in the navbox section head which should clear this up. The best of the polls, the Sight and Sound tenannual poll, is the main one that should be brought back and a move review on that one should be next in line (but will wait until the decision on this one, which should not be judged in the nom on the Sight and Sound removal which will be contested). Randy Kryn (talk) 14:16, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
 * You've already tried and failed to get the Sight & Sound one overturned Randy. WP:DROPTHESTICK. -- wooden  superman  14:25, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Not true, that was a discussion at a Wikiproject talk page, not an overall Deletion review. Look at the actual deletion nomination (another one of yours), this was in no way a good close - should have been relisted at a minimum - or a full discussion for such an important topic. That's why so much gets deleted here, it's an out-of-the-way Wikipedia backroom niche where major deletions such as this one is tucked away. Many more alerts are needed for controversial topics such as this (and no, an rarely noticed small line at the bottom of an article page is not an "alert" except in the broadest sense, it's more of a tiny footnote that will likely not be noticed, take the low attendence at the Sight and Sound deletion as an example of "major topic but small attendence". Randy Kryn (talk) 14:34, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Read the actual discussion Randy, multiple editors pointed out to you it was a good close and also refuted your claims that it was an "out-of-the-way Wikipedia backroom niche" (to which you even agreed that it was a "good point"), and there was more support for the deletion for good measure. WP:DROPTHESTICK. -- wooden  superman  14:37, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Oppose (Keep). I agree with Randy Kryn. This is not "subjective". Are Oscars subjective? What is not subjective in the field of culture? This is not an award but it's a recognition by one of the most prominent film magazines in the history of film. Makes sense, gives information about the degree of notability of certain works and puts them into perspective, and is not a big navbox anyway in terms of size. I can't see any actual reason for deletion. (I've read both discussions the nominator is referring their rationale to, and the least I can say is that I am not convinced).- My, oh my! (Mushy Yank)  09:09, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Of course it's subjective, "best of" lists always are, and this is a single list from 2008. It's not definitive -- wooden superman  14:46, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
 * And whilst I'm no advocate for awards navboxes, at least winning an award is something tangible, being included in an opinion poll is not. -- wooden superman  11:44, 6 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Yes, that's the point. You just don't like it. Randy Kryn (talk) 12:13, 6 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Comment I'd lean toward delete as this is just a magazine listing/ranking which in itself isn't a major award. However, the conversation has spiraled from being about the navbox into something else. But this navbox list should be added to the main article or the Cahiers du Cinéma's Annual Top 10 Lists article. --WikiCleanerMan (talk) 01:26, 8 March 2024 (UTC)
 *  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.


 * Keep It's one of the most prestigious of movie lists since the 1950s. Espngeek (talk) 12:17, 8 March 2024 (UTC)
 * That's fine for a list article, but not a navbox. -- wooden superman  12:32, 8 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Lists, navboxes. and categories are all, by guideline, complementary and should not be excluded because another of these three forms are utilized. All three are allowable and each is used and preferred by different readers. Randy Kryn (talk) 12:38, 8 March 2024 (UTC)
 * That doesn't mean that all are appropriate for each case. -- wooden superman  10:41, 12 March 2024 (UTC)
 * delete, I am not seeing the "all time per 2008" in Cahiers du Cinéma's Annual Top 10 Lists or Cahiers du Cinéma? Frietjes (talk) 16:52, 8 March 2024 (UTC)
 * The poll was taken in 2008. Is this fact being on the navbox your reason for deletion? Randy Kryn (talk) 02:52, 11 March 2024 (UTC)
 * so, the fact that the poll is out-of-date is why it's not either article, but good enough for a navbox? Frietjes (talk) 21:36, 11 March 2024 (UTC)
 * You misunderstand, my fault. The Top Ten of All-Time was the 2008 poll, of interest to "all time" film fans, but they also do a yearly poll of the Top Ten of the Year as well, which is linked. Not everyone knows this, and the navbox alerts readers of the all-time films to it. This poll is important, but not as interesting as the Sight and Sound poll of all time films taken and looked forward to every ten years, and has two parts: critics and directors (interesting comparing the two). Randy Kryn (talk) 22:11, 11 March 2024 (UTC)
 * every ten years seems like a strange reason to have a poll that is 15-16 years old, and also strange that the most interesting poll is not in the article. also, not sure why we are talking about Sight and Sound when this discussion is about Cahiers du Cinéma.  Frietjes (talk) 15:26, 12 March 2024 (UTC)
 * The every ten-year poll is the famous Sight and Sound poll. It is really a touchstone of film importance and the acceptance by critics and directors of relative importance. These two polls are related and important due to their quality and historical importance. I don't know which article you are pointing to which doesn't include either of the polls. Randy Kryn (talk) 15:33, 12 March 2024 (UTC)
 * can we agree that this discussion is about Cahiers du Cinéma navbox and not the Sight and Sound navbox? Frietjes (talk) 15:38, 12 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Of course, but still interested in what article you referred to which might be lacking key information, thanks. Randy Kryn (talk) 15:42, 12 March 2024 (UTC)
 * see above where I say I am not seeing the "all time per 2008" in Cahiers du Cinéma's Annual Top 10 Lists or Cahiers du Cinéma. Frietjes (talk) 15:52, 12 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Thanks. The first is an article on the yearly top ten lists, not the all-time list. Randy Kryn (talk) 12:47, 13 March 2024 (UTC)
 * so, still no reason why this list isn't in Cahiers du Cinéma, but I guess we should merge it there per WikiCleanerMan above. Frietjes (talk) 19:48, 15 March 2024 (UTC)


 * Delete per others and previous deletions. Random top 10 list from 15 years ago is not sufficient reason to use a navbox. Izno (talk) 23:30, 20 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Delete This is just a magazine listing/ranking which in itself isn't a major award. There's still no reason why this list can't be its own article or be added to a relevant article. --WikiCleanerMan (talk) 01:45, 22 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Delete, I don't see a compelling reason to have a navbox for a top 10 list from 15 years ago. Plastikspork ―Œ (talk) 14:49, 29 March 2024 (UTC)
 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template or module's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Template:Bowman sports card products

 * The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more templates or modules. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).

The result of the discussion was delete. ✗ plicit  12:27, 15 March 2024 (UTC) Delete. All red links; not sure what this was meant to be either. Omnis Scientia (talk) 00:02, 8 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Bowman sports card products
 * Delete. All linked articles appear to have been deleted in 2021. – Jonesey95 (talk) 17:15, 8 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Delete per nomination. --WikiCleanerMan (talk) 00:46, 11 March 2024 (UTC)
 * The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template or module's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.