Wikipedia:Village pump (assistance)/Archive 6

List of articles with most interwikis
Not sure if I placed this request properly, but here goes: is there any page that lists articles on english WP with most Interwiki links? And if not, would it be possible to compile something like that? I think such list would be helpful for identifying popular subjects that are not necessarily listed in the List of articles every Wikipedia should have --Yerpo (talk) 18:12, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
 * At Version 1.0 Editorial Team/SelectionBot they're trying to develop a robot which uses (among other things) the number of links between articles to assess their importance, sorta similar to what you're saying. There's also Special:Mostlinked, but it hasn't been updated in over a year unfortunately (blimey knows why!). • Anakin (contribs • complaints) 21:05, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
 * There is Common Interwiki links. Garion96 (talk) 21:46, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Ah, that's what I was looking for. Thanks! A bit out of date, tho... --Yerpo (talk) 22:07, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

Wikimedia Search - how does it work?
Hi there,

I am a postgraduate student (and advocate of Wikipedia) doing research for a project at the Centre for Digital Library Research at Strathclyde University on Wikipedia/Web 2.0. With no technical expertise I am having trouble finding out the answer to the following question, so if anyone could help me it would be much appreciated!

Why, if I search for the string "gdl.cdlr" does this article:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daldowie

show up in the search results, but not this one:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Maxton

?

As far as I can see, "gdl.cdlr" is part of what I call 'hidden text' behind the clickable link, and looking at the source code I see little difference; gdl.cdlr is not tagged as metadata; nor is it given as a keyword.

How does the Wikimedia search software work, and why am I am observing this effect?

Yours, Kathleen Menzies (email address removed) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.142.45.46 (talk) 07:53, 22 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Note: This was cross-posted to Village pump (technical) • Anakin (contribs • complaints) 14:52, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

Expresso grille badge
Any help at all would be appreciated.

This is a call out to all those who currently own, or know of someone who owns a fourth generation Plymouth Voyager or Grand Voyager with the rare Expresso grille badge. This is not the regular Plymouth blue & silver or grey & silver badge. This "Epresso badge" consists of two or three silver lines on a black circular background. This RARE grille badge has only been seen on the fourth generation Voyager/Grand Voyager. There are no documented photos on the internet. IF you own this vehicle or have digital photos of it, PLEASE upload them to wikipedia. thank you

P.S. IF I have uploaded this request on the wrong page, please forgive me and move it to its appropriate page. Thank you.

--Cdeboghorski (talk) 20:36, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

(removed leading spaces to change formatting to normal. -- Kateshort forbob  21:08, 22 January 2008 (UTC))
 * I don't know if this will be much help, but try adding reqphoto on the appropriate article's talk page and ask about the photo on the talk page. Billscottbob (talk) 04:34, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

Reference optimization tools?
Hey. I was just wondering if there are any sort of tools that will take a look at all of the references for an article and point out the redundancies. I guess I could bang out a PHP script to do it on my own, but if someone has already solved this problem, then I could save myself some work. &mdash;  Hello Annyong  (say whaaat?!) 06:09, 23 January 2008 (UTC)


 * This would be useful. Doesn't exist as far as I know. -- John Broughton (♫♫) 15:44, 23 January 2008 (UTC)


 * I was working on that, but an ArbCom kangaroo court decided you can't have it. Good luck, it is not trivial to make a general solution.  -- SEWilco (talk) 16:20, 23 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Link? -- John Broughton (♫♫) 18:05, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Boo. That sucks. &mdash;  Hello Annyong  (say whaaat?!) 20:29, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

Image based on other image
If I upload an image based on another image (on Commons), what do I make the tag? I did a great deal of work with the image, zooming in on one particular part. I've seen the disclaimers on other images, but I forget where. What do I put as the template? Thanks,  нмŵוτн τ  20:44, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
 * I think the people at Image copyright help desk may be able to help you better. Billscottbob (talk) 04:54, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

Upper-right shortcut bar?
Can someone give me a listing of the bars that appear on the top-right of a page when you log in and provide shortcuts to your settings/talk/watchlist/userpage/etc. My friend installed one on my account and I want to know what it is and how to remove or upgrade it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Noobeditor (talk • contribs) 00:30, 26 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Do you mean the Userpage, my talk, my preferences, my watchlist, my contributions and log out links? I'm not quite sure what you are asking for. What exactly did your friend install? Billscottbob (talk) 00:36, 26 January 2008 (UTC)


 * I know about the Noobeditor, My talk, My preferences, My watchlist, My contributions, Log out links, but my friend added something else. I think the Article, Discussion, Edit this page, History, Move, Watch tabs are also standard so he must have added shortcut links for other tasks. Noobeditor (talk) 01:19, 26 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Those extra links would probably be from the script you have installed at User:Noobeditor/monobook.js, where you have a collection of javascript tools 'bundled' into one. To answer your questions, to upgrade it, do nothing - when the scripts are updated, you will see the updates automatically. To uninstall it, blank that page then press Ctrl + F5. Tra (Talk) 01:36, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Splitting of List of schools in Malaysia
Yes I asked a question about this matter, but I do kinda know that if I am to post my questions back there I might not get much attention ._. Since there wasn't any comment by other editors, I just decided to split the article. My problem here now, is the naming convention. I did read WP:NC(S), but I still don't quite know which names to choose for the schools.
 * Kindly refer to Education in Malaysia.

Eg. SMK Tinggi Batu Pahat (Batu Pahat High School). According to the disastrous article (IMO), its full name (official name) is Sekolah Menengah Kebangsaan Tinggi Batu Pahat (SMKTBP), while when shortened is Sekolah Tinggi Batu Pahat (STBP), but "commonly referred" to as High School Batu Pahat (HSBP). However, in the Johor section, it is shown this way: SMK Tinggi Batu Pahat (Batu Pahat High School).
 * Note that Sekolah Menengah Kebangsaan = SMK

So what should I name it when I create "List of schools in Johor, Malaysia"? (Well I might as well get a minor cleanup for the article). SMK Tinggi Batu Pahat is the official name; High School Batu Pahat is its common name; Batu Pahat High School is in fact the correct grammar for its English name. — Yurei -egg tart 04:13, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia.org
I received an email from this address concerning an article. The email was asking to allow his website as a link into a Wiki article. Isn't Wikipedia.org an official email provider for the foundation? I'm so confused, because the "user" emailing me seems to not understand the basic Wikipedia policies. Can anyone acquire a Wikipedia.org email address? Sorry if this is the wrong place, or a stupid question, but it just seems strange to me. Thanks in advance. ←Gee ♥Alice  00:30, 23 January 2008 (UTC)


 * They might have spoofed the address, or it could be from a mailing list (though those are usually at lists.wikimedia.org. If you forward the email to me I will take a look (Prodego at gmail). Prodego  talk  00:40, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
 * OK, thanks. I'm going to forward the email to you now. ←Gee ♥Alice  01:32, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
 * I forwarded it to you, and it is from wikimedia.org. The same question applies though. I don't understand the difference ... well I do (m not p), and don't. LOL. ←Gee ♥Alice  01:37, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Check the full email headers. The "Received:" fields may give a hint. –Pomte 16:45, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Well this sounds very interesting. Could be a very well disguised hoax. Could it forwarded to me also? I'd like to investigate this further, and I might contact some OTRS people or someone more knowledgable than myself. Anyway, the difference between wikipedia and wikimedia is...well...wikipedia is the encyclopedia, wikimedia is the foundation that runs wikipedia and its sister projects (See the bottom of the main page or "Interwiki" on my userpage for more).-- Phoenix -  wiki  22:28, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Deleting Insulting re-direct to Barak Obama
I assume wiki automatically deletes redirects like this and will figure out how to do it unless someone else who knows wants to do it asap. And I'm leaving User:Herorev who created it a message to delete as well. http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Bareback_Osama&diff=prev&oldid=185343827 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bareback_Osama Carol Moore 14:49, 26 January 2008 (UTC)Carolmooredc {talk}
 * Resolved. For future reference, the quickest way to get such things deleted is to mark them for speedy deletion. In this case, the redirect fell under criterion G10 (no purpose other than to disparage the subject), so can be marked with db-attack. Algebraist 15:13, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

URL as plain text
How do I post a URL that will appear as plain text, rather than be converted to a live link? Lou Sander (talk) 14:59, 26 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Nowiki works: http://www.google.com . So does just leaving off the http:// (if you don't mind losing that): www.google.com. Algebraist 15:09, 26 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Or use ampersand codes like http&#58;//www.google.com –Pomte 15:12, 26 January 2008 (UTC)


 * It would probably be best (and easiest) to use the nowiki tags, as Pomte has stated. You do that by adding

YOUR LINK HERE
 * - Rjd0060 (talk) 04:35, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Help with an editor
seems uncommunicative and has gone from adding oversized images to articles, to completely replacing wikiformatting in articles with html formatting. I've asked him to use edit summary, made suggestions to him, and explained reverts in edit summaries, but he seems to plow forward undaunted. His edit here, leads me to believe his english is not fluent which could be part of the problem, but my french certainly isn't up to trying to converse with him in French. But these are unnecessary, ,. As well we had a repeated copyvio issue with him. He's contributing some great photos which might be useful. However I actually question his assertion that he's the copyright holder on this image (and others like it) Image:Seoulines.JPG. I'd rather not see him blocked, but I'm at a loss on how to handle him.--Crossmr (talk) 00:24, 26 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Try posting this on WP:ANI or WP:WQA, depending on the specifics. There administrators will be able to formally deal with the editor and take appropriate action, or give advice. Billscottbob (talk) 00:29, 26 January 2008 (UTC)


 * If you need a French speaker, WP:Local Embassy has a list of people who have offered to help. Puchiko (Talk-email) 18:13, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Ongoing vandalism on Croatian Wikipedia - need to block a user
Hello. Is there anyone who can block users on other Wikis? There's severe vandalism going on on Croatian Wikipedia right now and no one to stop it. If anyone could assist, it would be greatly appreciated. Rosier (talk) 06:01, 27 January 2008 (UTC) Link: http://hr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posebno:Recentchanges -- Rosier (talk) 06:03, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Nobody on the English Wikipedia has any authority as such on any other Wikipedias.  Corvus cornix talk  06:23, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Perhaps there is someone not limited to English Wikipedia only, someone with wider authority? But thank you anyway, ignore my request. Goodbye. Rosier (talk) 06:35, 27 January 2008 (UTC)


 * The people to contact in such cases are the stewards. If the problem is acute, the fastest way to do that is probably to go to the #wikimedia-stewards IRC channel.  —Ilmari Karonen (talk) 10:11, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
 * You can contact the Stewards via IRC through this web-based client, if you do not have one installed. Remember to select #wikipedia-stewards as your channel; it's near the bottom of the drop-down channel selection menu. Anthøny 15:20, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Question about NPOV
I was reading the Halter (horse show) article and was wondering if the part about presentation of halter horses in the USA was neutral? As I just recently started an account I'm not quite sure if I'm correct in my belief that it's not very neutral. I don't think that it could easily be proved that in the exhibitors in the US are more fond of grooming items than the rest of the world. Am I correct or not?SunshineStateOfMind (talk) 23:25, 27 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Actually, the entire article is completely without references, and I've tagged it as such. I would suggest going to the article talk page and pointing that out so other editors will get involved in the discussion there; if I've got the time, I'll give it a workover as well to try and get some references sorted out. Tony Fox (arf!) 23:31, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Thank you so much, I will go to the page and bring it up with the editors there. SunshineStateOfMind (talk) 23:37, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Long-term occasional vandalism
Hi all, I'm trying to find out if there's an article-oriented version of Long term abuse (which is for users). The article "loose cannon" has this perennial problem with people popping in and adding something like "John Smith is a notable example of a loose cannon.". It's not just one editor, and it's too infrequent for temporary protection to be of much help, but some sort of "global watchlist" for vandalism patrollers would be a good place to list it, I think. Have I missed such a page anywhere? -- tiny plastic Grey Knight  ⊖  07:33, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, there is a page just for that. The page that you are looking for is Most vandalized pages.  I must warn you though.  The page is not updated often. Johnny Au (talk) 20:37, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
 * I added it to the list anyway, better than nothing. Thanks! -- tiny plastic Grey Knight   ⊖  09:11, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Wierd HTML bug
Hi,

I'm havinag a problem with my user page...

I'm trying to put a bunch of userboxes on it in grouped boxes, but when I put this in only the Muslim userbox stays inside the box. The rest sit outside it.

Themagicmanfromtrent (talk) 06:08, 28 January 2008 (UTC)


 * There was a closing div tag to start the second box. Should be fixed now. –Pomte 06:32, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks a lot! Themagicmanfromtrent (talk) 06:42, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Requests for feedback
Hi all. Experienced editors are needed to assist in answering posts at Requests for feedback, it's been getting a bit neglected for a few weeks. Thanks! &mdash;Elipongo (Talk contribs) 20:32, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Dexter Lehtinen
Are the unlinked links provided in Dexter Lehtinen valid references? In my opinion, the original editor needs to provide links. The supposed references provided are pretty worthless, as far as I am concerned. <font face="Arial"> Corvus cornix talk  05:58, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

This has been resolved. <font face="Arial"> Corvus cornix talk  06:48, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

It's no longer resolved. <font face="Arial"> Corvus cornix talk  07:23, 27 January 2008 (UTC)


 * I've posted a comment at Talk:Dexter Lehtinen. If you can cite a policy or guideline that requires links, and disallows citations to newspaper articles without links, please do so. I don't think such a policy or guideline exists, however.  -- John Broughton  (♫♫) 21:50, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

Article deletion
I am trying to find out why my page "Australian Cinematographers Society" was deleted.

I am the Societies webmaster and posted our generic information from our website, into wikipedia (to link with some of our more high profile members), just like other cinematographer soicieies around the world and now I log on this morning and its been deleted 19:38, 28 January 2008 Woody (Talk | contribs) deleted "Australian Cinematographers Society" ‎ (CSD G12: Blatant copyright infringement)

I ask this be reconsidered and reinstated...

I was about to update it with more information about the society as we approach our 50 year celebtations

Austcine (talk) 21:22, 28 January 2008 (UTC)


 * it was deleted by User:Woody as a copyright infringement. If you are the webmaster, you need to follow Wikipedia's procedures on how to insert your own copyrighted information.  See CP.  You may also want to read Wikipedia's guideline on conflict of interest.  <font face="Arial"> Corvus cornix  talk  00:44, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
 * See also Donating copyrighted materials. Bovlb (talk) 20:06, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

Problem with posting messages on User talk:Nick Mks
This user seems to have been involved in some discussions with other users about a couple of websites which have since been blocked by the spam filter. As a result, it is now impossible to post on his talk page. The message that comes up says to remove the links, but seeing as it is a user talk page, this would be inappropriate. Could somebody please take a look at it, as I need to give him some information about a WikiProject that he is a member of. --<font color="#115566">GW_Simulations<font color="#000000">User Page 22:25, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
 * You could place nowiki tags around the URL to prevent it from creating a link. <font face="Arial"> Corvus cornix  talk  00:47, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks. --<font color="#115566">GW_Simulations<font color="#000000">User Page 08:12, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

Tibetan Night Yoga
I would like to introduce the following text as a new article to Wikipedia. I'm the author of this text, which is from my homepage www.dunkelyoga.com.

Manuprobst (talk) 22:57, 29 January 2008 (UTC)Manuela

Tibetan Night Yoga

Since times unremembered, darkness therapy, also known as nocturnal yoga, has been practiced by all ethnic groups. In particular, in Tibet the yogis have spent many weeks in dark caves in order to reach a state of deep meditation, known as Samadhi. Darkness therapy constitutes one of the most powerful means of finding oneself, and in this way, also for curing corporal, psychological, mental, and even spiritual illnesses.

During this therapy, one spends a determined time in absolute darkness. This period may be from just a few days up to several weeks. The procedure can be considered, in general terms, “sensory deprivation”.

In recent years scientific studies have been carried out regarding darkness therapy, which have shown beneficial results for many illnesses, such as depression, fibromyalgia, chronic fatigue, asthma, headaches, and other chronic illnesses. It is believed to be melatonin, which is released in great quantities, that induces a general detoxification and rejuvenation of the entire organism.

In general terms, three different stages in the experience can be identified. During the first stage, which can last until the second day, the absence of all forms of external stimulus can cause an almost unbearable mix of thoughts and emotions. Fear and boredom alternate. During the first 24 hours, in particular, this unsupportable mix of boredom, abandonment and loneliness can generate a temptation to abandon the experiment, especially if it is the first time.

During the second day, one becomes calmer and the first experiences of extrasensory perceptions may occur. In this second stage one looses bodily senses. The mental uneasiness and ego also decrease. One enters into a daydream like state. The aura of all animate and inanimate objects becomes visible. From this comes the denomination “Yoga of the internal light”. With the increase in the perception of vital energy, all thoughts and feelings become stronger.

In the third stage one looses more and more thoughts and feelings, and reaches ever longer periods of perception of total emptiness, which means everything. One begins to sense the “thunder of silence”, the revelation of the past and the future, and above all experiences of incomparable light, universal love, intense feelings of life and universal wisdom.

In this stage it is possible to spontaneously heal all types of corporal, psychological and spiritual illnesses. Encounter the nucleus of personality and then the authentic purpose and programme of life. Develop the capability of spiritual healing. Sharpen and broaden all feelings: feel by clair-sentience (extrasensory perception by touch), hear by clair-audience (extrasensory perception through the ear) and see by clair-voyance (extrasensory perception through the eyes). This extrasensory perception of the different senses can usually be maintained for a certain time after leaving the darkness, and can later be integrated into daily life.

So as to intensify the described experiences, it is recommended to combine the darkness therapy with a fasting of water, or at least with a strict diet of fresh tropical fruits, such as fresh coco water.
 * Welcome to Wikipedia, and thank you for offering this contribution. Your website gives no indication of copyright status, which means that we are unfortunately obliged to assume that it is copyright by default, and that we cannot use content from there.  In addition, for the protection of your rights, we cannot assume that you are who you say you are, and hence we can't just take your word for it that you are authorised to release this material.  Please take a look at Donating copyrighted materials and Copyright issues.   You also have to think about whether the subject of this text meets our criteria for notability, and whether this material can be adequately sourced.   Bovlb (talk) 06:07, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

SVG help
Question moved and answered here: Graphic_Lab/Images_to_improve Felsir (talk) 15:14, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

Question about posting topics
Hi there -

There is a topic that I have posted about and have been told that my information is incorrect when I know it is correct. And therefore it has been removed.

How do I go about correcting this and getting help with this?

Thanks —Preceding unsigned comment added by Marnad1963 (talk • contribs) 17:34, 30 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Information added to Wikipedia needs to be Verifiable, if you can find a reference for the information from a reliable source then their is no reason why you cant add it to the article with the appropriate citation. If it is removed and disputed you should discuss it on the appropriate talk page. I dont known what your tried to add but please remember that just because you know it is wrong you are not regarded as a reliable source and this is called original research which may be challenged and removed. MilborneOne (talk) 17:45, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

Reformatting
Could someone who knows how to reformat WikiProject User Page Help/Help Desk to make the table of contents more userfriendly and easier to edit?  MBisanz  talk 04:50, 31 January 2008 (UTC)
 * And yes I do see the irony of having to ask for help on reformatting a page that's purpose is to help users reformat pages.  MBisanz  talk 04:53, 31 January 2008 (UTC)
 * I've done a minor tweak on the page, but there isn't more that I would want to do until you give some more information about what you'd like to see. For example, normally TOCs aren't editable, they're auto-generated; what did you have in mind with "easier to edit"?  Similarly, what would a more "userfriendly" TOC look like?  (Or, alternatively, what do you think is the problem now?  I have a guess on this, but I'd rather hear your opinion.)  -- John Broughton  (♫♫) 14:12, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

Table formatting
How do I align all the arrows to the right on User:Billscottbob/User Page Draft. The template for the boxes can be found at User:Billscottbob/bluebox. Thanks. —Preceding comment was added at 05:23, 31 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Also, is it possible to link the arrows?Billscottbob (talk) 05:25, 31 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Fixed and responded on user talk. -- omtay 38  07:31, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

Template Centering Assistance
Hi, I've added a locator map to Infobox_Paris_metro. However, while the map works fine, I've had a terrible time getting it to center in the infobox. If I can center it, then I lose the coordinates (which is OK...but would require digging through all 250 odd Paris Metro articles and getting new coords...which would be difficult because they would then not match the French wikis coords). Anyway, any and all assistance would be greatly appreciated because....well....I'm going insane ;) Thanks! Lazulilasher (talk) 15:51, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

Help integrating trivia section into main article
I know trivia sections are discouraged now, so I'm trying to integrate these two bits of trivia from Urban Assault into the main article. Any help would be appreciated, thanks! &mdash;shoecream 04:44, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia and Google search results?
Searching Google for "regexp" gives me this page of hits.

The first hit is a link to WP, but there's a typo. A Wikipedia articele on regular expressions with an informal discussion, a formal definition and examples. Where does Google get that text from, and how can I repair it? Dan Beale-Cocks 18:24, 29 January 2008 (UTC)


 * How very strange! Those words appear nowhere in the article, or Google's cached copy of it, or in the HTML source of either. Searching for the misspelled text only reveals more search pages. Randomly I searched on "java" to see what came up. And again, Google's description of the Wikipedia page contains no text from the article. It says: "Presents the language and gives insight into its philosophy and syntax. Lists criticism, resources, links and literature on the topic". I wonder who is writing these descriptions? Is it Google themselves? Or some web directory? Worrying. • <font color="#5a3696">Anakin (contribs • complaints) 19:33, 29 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Some web directory - dmoz.org, to be specific. -- John Broughton (♫♫) 20:44, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

They have a form to submit corrections, I've sent one in. —Random832 16:45, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

A question about a talk page
Aren't off topic discussions supposed to be deleted? There is a problem here: Talk:List_of_Virtual_Console_games_%28North_America%29. The discussion is off topic, and a user keeps re-adding the off topic posts. As he stated on the talk page: ''There is nothing wrong with a little side discussion. If you want to complain about side discussion, then this whole section needs to be removed, since it does not affect the article.'' Indeed it's completely off topic, as every week someone just says "this will be coming out" before it actually does. It's speculation at best, and shouldn't be on the talk page period. People are making claims about a site being a reliable source, however not once (that I've seen) does that information get added to the article early. It seems to me that they know it's not a decent source, yet they refuse to move the discussions to their talk pages or a message board. To sum it all up: several editors seem to be abusing the talk page just for general discussion on the subject itself. RobJ1981 (talk) 19:23, 31 January 2008 (UTC)
 * People are making claims about a site being a reliable source, however not once (that I've seen) does that information get added to the article early.

You can add yourself to that list of editors; you, me, and a few other editors have shot down their source (a message board post) because we typically don't accept that as verifiable information (even despite the fact that the source has been 100% correct so far). However, you can't complain that they refuse to use the source when you, I, and others have have all stated that it is not a reliable source. Second, source reliability and off-topic discussions on talk pages are two different issues, and the issue that some users have taken with your deletions is that you're deleting a discussion that relevant to the article itself (what will be released on what date). Despite the fact that you have stated that these subjects are off-topic, you still participate in them and then scold other users for doing so as well. Blanking out an entire section when it contains information pertaining to the article is simply unacceptable, and edit-warring to keep it out is unacceptable as well; even when I agreed that the off-topic discussion didn't belong and removed only what was OT, you still wanted to remove article-relevant information, and did so. Considering that you have also participated in these "off-topic" discussions about what is about to come out and whether or not the source is reliable, you can't say that you're not guilty as well if these subjects are truly "off-topic". PeanutCheeseBar (talk) 14:16, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I agree with Cheese. Thank you very much. --LN3000 (talk) 19:02, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Show me some posts where I'm whining that only the games released are bad. I'm pretty sure I've never done that, like the majority of the talk page has. The talk page isn't the place to bash the subject, whine about it, or anything else of that sort. I've stated the source is bad, that's more on topic than whining about the games being bad. RobJ1981 (talk) 18:53, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
 * You are correct in that they shouldn't be complaining about the quality of the games released (since the article is meant to state what is or will be available, not the quality), but that does not mean that they cannot discuss WHAT game is being released WHEN. There are no rules against discussing what will be coming out and when, and so long as they're not putting it in the article without a reliable source, they aren't breaking any rules or violating any policies.  PeanutCheeseBar (talk) 19:37, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

Weird instructions
These instructions were commented out text in an article about a list of characters on a tv show. Is this standard form or a template from somewhere?  MBisanz  talk 19:03, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
 * This is not standard form, but I sometimes leave hidden comments like this (though shorter) when I cleaned up an article and other editors repeatedly do the same mistake afterwards. My suggestion: Leave it in. It doesn't do any harm and can only help to maintain a high quality of the article. If however the article is so bad that it needs a complete overhaul, delete the hidden comment and rather use the normal cleanup templates. – sgeureka t•c 13:01, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

time template ?

 * How do I add the template code for a clock on my user page. Just asking.--Rio de oro (talk) 01:53, 2 February 2008 (UTC)
 * You may want to see WP:TIME for some ideas. If none of these templates suit you, there are some "magic words" that can be incorporated into normal wikitext to make customizable templates. Hope this helps! -- omtay 38  01:58, 2 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I have a clock! ^_^ • <font color="#539">Anakin (talk) 11:07, 2 February 2008 (UTC)
 * So do I. <font face="Arial"> Corvus cornix  talk  22:19, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

What to do with this article?
I just came across this article, Mark II pump, and I'm not sure what to do with it. It's basically a direct copy of http://www.unicef.org/sowc96/hpump.htm, but because the page lists it as a reference it's technically not a copyvio. I'm leaning towards AfD to remove the page for being a blatant copy, but maybe the topic is notable enough to just require heavy rewrites. Could someone else take a look at this and give an opinion? Thanks. &mdash;  Hello Annyong  (say whaaat?!) 04:28, 3 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Isn't it still a copyvio because the source isn't public domain or released under the GDFL? If the whole article is copied from a website that is neither public domain nor GDFL, it meets WP:CSD. Billscottbob (talk) 04:52, 3 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Alright, I've nominated the page. We'll see where this goes. &mdash;  Hello Annyong  (say whaaat?!) 05:14, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

How to delete an empty category?
I have depopulated Category:Architecture and engineering occupations and was under the impression that it would delete itself after a few quiet days. It is still there. How can I delete it? BrainyBabe (talk) 11:58, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
 * It doesn't disappear by itself; an admin has to delete it. Tag with db-catempty. –Pomte 12:38, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks, I hope that does it. BrainyBabe (talk) 12:56, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

Help with signature
I'm trying to make a sig for my first time and I'm having a little bit of trouble. If you go look at User:Icestorm815/sandbox, I want my sig to look like the first line, but when I try and put it in as a raw signature, I keep getting an html error. Help would be greatly appreciated! Icestorm815 (talk) 02:06, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Try it now. Prodego  <sup style="color:darkgreen;">talk  02:17, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Thank you very much! Icestorm815  •  Talk  02:38, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

#ifexist: linebreaks, and tables
Could somebody please help me sort this out. (Instructions on page). Thanks! -- omtay 38  05:08, 6 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Got it, nvmd. -- omtay 38  17:55, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

Portrait of Ibn al-Haytham from an old Iraqi 10000 Dinar note.
There is a deletion notice on an image in use on Scientific method, I believe incorrectly. Can someone with access to the Commons update the provenance in Wikimedia commons, it comes from an old Iraqi 10000 Dinar note. --Ancheta Wis (talk) 07:37, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

BROWN EYE PARENTS - BLUE EYE KIDS?
Valerie Breedt (talk) 11:19, 6 February 2008 (UTC)My son married a very pregnant girl and adopted her baby as his own. We all love the child very much and she is very spoilt by us, as she is our first grand child. A boy has also since be born.

Our daughter-in-law has since given us all the hell one could not hope for (flared up by the assistance of her parents). She is now calling for divorce with the most sickning reasons unheard of, nevertheless, we have to carry on.

My question is, the first born - the little that is not our son's biological child, has the most beautiful blue eyes. The mother (our daughter-in-law), has true brown and the man she claims to be the father, also has true brown eyes. Can this be so? Can a child have such lovely blue eyes, when both parents have prominent brown eyes?

(this is the first time I am making use of this service, please if I posted it on the wrong page, would you forward it for me and advise me how to do this in future. Thanks)


 * You probably should be over at the reference desk, but in short it is perfectly possible for two brown-eyed parents, see Eye colour. In relatively simple terms, the gene that produces blue eye colour is recessive, so both parents could have the gene, but their eyes would appear brown. If the child happens to inherit the blue-eyed gene from both parents (a one-in-four chance) then it will have blue eyes.  Also the brown colour tends to increase as the child gets older, so it's posible that the child's eyes will turn darker as it grows up.  David Underdown (talk) 12:18, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

Jason Dolley
Our article at Jason Dolley is basically the same as what's at http://www.whosdatedwho.com/celebrities/people/profile/jason-dolley.htm, but I can't tell who's copying from whom. Our article appears to have had the information on it prior to July 7, 2007, which the Wayback Machine says was when the article at whosdatedwho got updated, but they only have one copy of that article at http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.whosdatedwho.com/celebrities/people/profile/jason-dolley.htm and that doesn't have this material in it. The "rock n roll fanatic" edit was added with this edit over a year ago. What's our option? <font face="Arial"> Corvus cornix talk  06:53, 3 February 2008 (UTC)


 * I don't see the problem. As you noted, the July 7, 2007 version of the whosdatedwho site doesn't have the information in question, so it's clear (at least to me) that it subsequently copied text from Wikipedia. Moreover, the article in Wikipedia had hundreds of edits before July 2007; that makes it extremely unlikely that the wording is exactly the same as wherever the information came from, eliminated the duplicate text/copyright issue. Plus what's in the article as of July 5, 2007 is factual; what really triggers copyright problems is lifting large chunks of text that are a mix of facts and analysis. (Facts can't be copyrighted.) -- John Broughton (♫♫) 23:02, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

What to do with an article beyond cleanup?
Specifically this one: Smooth jazz. There are a large number of issues with the article, and just today, another editor found another two that he/she felt they could not be confident to deal with themselves. The article has a wide range of issues that I noted with first Cleanup and the (not dead) Cleanup Taskforce. Specifically issues dealing with reliable sources and verifiability, as well as neutral point of view (in particular the radio section which at one time became a magnet for spam links - WP:NOT and WP:EL), original research and peacock terms. The editor this morning added two more tags, another for original research and one for weasel words, with an edit summary of a "blatant WP:ATT vio".

The only thing that stops me hauling it to articles for deletion is that it is a notable and worldwide major subgenre of jazz, with significant press coverage and dedicated radio stations broadcast terrestrially, via cable, satellite and the Internet across the world. That and the fact that I listen to the genre daily!

Every post in the talk page talks of major cleanup of the article and I suggested the whole article should be rewritten from scratch, considering many of the issues and differences in opinion, reference finding and citations would be needed for everything written in the rewritten article. However, no-one has given consensus and no-one seems to be bold enough to cleanup the article, maybe because of the uphill task of doing so. I started citing and removing things from the opening paragraph but just gave up after that, and I have never gained the energy or determination to tackle it since.

Does anyone know if there is a way that the article could be treated considering the above issues? Thanks in advance. --tgheretford (talk) 20:56, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
 * If you think that it is easier to rewrite the article completely instead of fixing the current article, you could create a draft. You can create a draft as a subpage of the talk page and use Draft to indicate that it is a draft.
 * Other places to get community help for articles include WP:PNA and, if it is really notable, WP:ACID.
 * I hope that helps. Billscottbob (talk) 00:34, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks for that. I'll look into those later when I get home. --tgheretford (talk) 08:52, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

Watchlist - Is there a way to automatically watch every page you view
Watchlist - Is there a way to automatically watch every page you look at, not just edit. Alexsanderson83 (talk) 07:44, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

Maybe a bot can help. Visit me at Ftbhrygvn(T alk |C ontribs |L og ) 15:52, 8 February 2008 (UTC)


 * As far as I know, you can manually add any page to your watch list... even if you have never edited it. Just click on the "Watch" button at the top of the page when you look at the article.  You would have to create some sort of bot to do it automatically. Blueboar (talk) 18:58, 8 February 2008 (UTC)


 * No, a bot wouldn't help. A bot is just an automated user account, and it's impossible for another user account to know what pages you've viewed. Or what pages are already on your watchlist. Or (most importantly) to add a page to your watchlist.


 * Perhaps it might be possible to create a user script, which would see if the tab at the top of the page you're on reads "watch" or "unwatch", and where it says "watch", would "click" on the tab to change it.


 * Or perhaps an existing specialized editor (software), like wikEd, has this functionality, though that would surprise me. -- John Broughton (♫♫) 01:42, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

don't link dab pages when one topic is less popular than the other?
User:Jojit fb did put a otheruses-template on top of the page FAMAS (which is about the french rifle "Fusil d'Assaut de la Manufacture d'Armes de Saint-Étienne"), in order to link to the article Filipino Academy of Movie Arts and Sciences Award, which is referred to as FAMAS as well. This link was removed by another user, who explained on the talk page, that this link does not belong there (according to WP:NOT as he said). The reason he named was, that the other meaning is obscure and most people who type in "FAMAS" seek the rifle, not the film organisation. Is that true? And if yes: what is the otheruses-template good for anyway?--79.212.239.47 (talk) 00:21, 9 February 2008 (UTC)


 * I think it would be better to create the page FAMAS (disambiguation) and then, at the top of the article FAMAS, use an otheruses template to redirect to this disambiguation page. That's less distracting to the reader than a link to a relatively less popular article.


 * In other words, I'm suggesting using the otheruses1 template rather than otheruses4, as you did. (And I completely fail to see what WP:NOT has to do with this - is there a particularly section of that policy that's particularly relevant?) -- John Broughton (♫♫) 01:31, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I submitted the disambiguation page to Articles for creation/Today.--79.212.220.29 (talk) 19:11, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
 * OK the dab-page is at FAMAS (disambiguation) and I've put a Otheruses1 template on FAMAS. As I'm understanding, this should be fine and there should be no reason to remove the otheruses-template now(?).--79.212.242.77 (talk) 21:51, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I've tweaked the disambiguation page, put the otheruses1 template back on the FAMAS article, via revert, and have posted a note about the revert on the article talk page. If that doesn't solve the problem, please drop me a note on my user talk page. -- John Broughton  (♫♫) 00:14, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

WP script
Hello! I have a bit of a basic problem with the java script I have; I was trying to use addOnloadHook( function where I append text upon clicking on a certain tool bar button, and it did not work. I have tried to look at friendly's welcome script but it had too many parameters I did not need. I am novice at java script to say the least, and I would appreciate if someone could help me with this-perhaps providing the script needed if it was short :)- I know this should be simple enough, and I am quite sure that I have nothing wrong with the procedure (bypassing cache, importing scripts from their locations, monobook.js, etc.) so the problem must be with the script I wrote. Thanks <font size="2.5" color="blue">&Lambda;ua&int; Wi  se  (Operibus anteire) 15:48, 10 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Can you give a link to a page containing the script? You seem to have [ deleted it]. Or do you not need it any more? • <font color="#539">Anakin (talk) 02:36, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Help requested - unsure how to proceed
This a request for suggestions on how to proceed, not a request for intervention or review. I've been a registered Wikipedian since 2004, and have run across all sorts of difficult situations in the past four years, but I'm now stumped... For the last year or so I've witnessed a particular editor repeatedly attempt to push a particular agenda. I've seen him (her?) repeatedly attempt to scrub criticism and negative information from all articles related to a particular right-leaning media outlet. This is often done by misrepresenting policy, or more often than not just repeating the same (broken / rejected) points until no one has the patience to continue trying to explain things to him... literally the "wear them down till they stop caring" (I'm serious). I could compile a list (with diffs) of dozens of instances of this behaviour, and I just don't know what to do. Each little bit of minutae goes on for so long that most editors won't even take the time to read the kilobytes (literally) of back-and-forth, and the long term pattern is only evident to those who are patient and consistant enough to witness it. It's not a simple content dispute (though I can reference dozens) because it spreads across multiple articles, and I can't say that he's broken any particular rules (other than some personal attacks and incivility) enough to warrant administrative action. Usually it ends up such that editors not familiar with his pattern/history try to treat it as a simple content dispute, or attempt to try and relegate it to a singular issue (instead of taking a more macro view). I know I'm not being as clear as I could be, and I request editors who have made it this far to read this thread with a (mostly) uninvolved editor to help more clearly explain what I mean. I'm not sure what to do, and I need some help on how to proceed. Any suggestions welcome; I'll be glad to be more specific/particular if anyone wants more info (just leave me a message on my talk page). Thanks in advance! /Blaxthos ( t / c ) 09:45, 11 February 2008 (UTC)


 * If you don't get a response here or on your talk page, I strongly recommend going to WP:EA; it's designed exactly for situations like this, I think.


 * One suggestion - you should ask the editor to review WP:COI and declare whether he/she does or doesn't have a conflict of interest with regard to this media outlet. Normally people who are persistent (in the way you describe) aren't simply disinterested editors. -- John Broughton  (♫♫) 14:28, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

Portal leadership
The Portal:Rapid transit is in decay, and it's founder, User:Selmo, is not around. Can I just assume responsibility for it, or should I ask somewhere, or email Selmo, or what? Note: I am not new to Wikipedia, and I am a long-standing member of the trains wikiproject.--MrFishGo Fish 18:14, 11 February 2008 (UTC)


 * I'd say drop a note to Portal talk:Transport and Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Council and if no one there objects, go for it.  MBisanz  talk 19:47, 11 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the advice.--MrFishGo Fish 20:28, 11 February 2008 (UTC)