Wikipedia:Village pump (proposals)/Archive 5

Templates with red links
I notice that this project has fallen into defunctness. Probably my fault for moving on to other things, but it's a good and useful project that could probably provide some real benefits if it were rebooted and adopted by Wikipedians who work on templates in general, and on articles in some of the specialized areas that have been singled out there (Olympics, wars, tv/radio stations, etc.). Cheers! bd2412 T 09:57, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

National Institute of Science Media / Joel Ball author adding
How do I add the company National Institute of Science Media and their books by Joel Ball? joelballJoelball 15:00, 15 November 2007 (UTC)


 * First, you should read our guideline on what articles are and aren't appropriate for Wikipedia. Then you should read our conflict of interest guideline, since your name ("Joel Ball") and the author you are interested in writing about seem to be one and the same. -- John Broughton (♫♫) 23:02, 16 November 2007 (UTC)


 * (Similar information has been posted, by another editor, on the user talk page of Mr. Ball.) -- John Broughton (♫♫) 23:03, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Content warning and refferal links?
It's great that wikipedia has various warnings about content, but links from search engines completely bypass that warning. Would it be possible to have some kind of visible alert appear at the top of articles when the user has clicked a link from another site, giving them proper warning about what to expect on wikipedia? If your gonna have disclaimers, you should make sure people actually see them.

Just an idea... --Carterhawk 19:26, 15 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Not sure where you get the idea that clicking a link from within Wikipedia will result in a disclaimer being displayed at the top of an article, because that doesn't happen. Someone arriving via Google sees exactly the same page as someone arriving at a page via an internal Wikipedia link. -- John Broughton (♫♫) 23:00, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

User signatures should link to both the user page and user talk page by default

 * The bugzilla page for this is here.

The default signature links to a user's page but not the talk page. This is inconvenient, since the talk page is needed just as often (or more) than the user page. I propose that the default signature should be changed to link to both, something like:
 * -- Name (talk)

This will require a change to the Mediawiki code, which I can write and submit for review, that will make the default signature editable in the Mediawiki namespace. &mdash; Carl (CBM · talk) 21:34, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Agree both. Sensible. FT2 (Talk 21:36, 9 November 2007 (UTC)


 * I'd strongly support this, makes things much easier for new users and less experienced users, and quicker for the rest of us. Nick 21:37, 9 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Yes, definitely a good idea - there must be thousands of times every day when an editor has to click on the user name in a signature in order to get to the user talk page.
 * I suppose there isn't any possibility of changing existing useraccount signatures as well as new ones? I'm thinking of only cases where (a) the "Raw signature" box is not checked, and (b) the contents of the signature field are blank. (Just asking, in case there is, which would be a huge help; otherwise we'll have to wait a while for the change to really make an impact.)  -- John Broughton  (♫♫) 01:23, 10 November 2007 (UTC)


 * I could support the idea more if, for simplicity's sake as much as anything, there was just one default link, as now, but it went to the talk page. I cannot see the point in linking to both pages. I use just one link now because I consider user pages, nice though they are, to be very much secondary to talk pages. One caveat with that, though, I admit; those red links are handy for spotting new editors.  Adrian M. H.  01:38, 10 November 2007 (UTC)


 * (resp. to John Broughton). The patch I have submitted would change the signature for everyone who does not have the 'raw signature' option checked. It would work whether or not they set a 'nickname' in their preferences, and would respect the nickname of course.
 * (Resp. Adrian M.H.) The patch would allow us to customize the default signature using a page in the Mediawiki: namespace, so whatever format is agreed upon could be used. &mdash; Carl (CBM · talk) 11:49, 10 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Well, time's a wastin' - it looks like a great idea, and if I hope there are no hinderances in implementing it. -- John Broughton  (♫♫) 14:27, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Strongly agree. --Quiddity (talk) 08:23, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I've suggested this before and it didn't take off. Hopefully it does this time. -- John Reaves 20:42, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Does this need a bugzilla request? -- John Reaves 20:48, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I already submitted a patch to bugzilla to show the devs how easy it is. I'm waiting for the patch to be reviewed. &mdash; Carl (CBM · talk) 17:12, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

For anons, it should link to contribs, in addition to (or instead of) the User: page, analogous to how it does on article history. —Random832 17:47, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I've linked the bugzilla page at the top. bug#11315 is related to the anon enhancement (would probably need to be implemented as two separate mediawiki: pages, one for anons and one without) —Random832 18:09, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Those two bugs should be resolved at the same time, since they involve exactly the same lines of code. I agree the way to do it is with two messages. &mdash; Carl (CBM · talk) 18:26, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Good idea, and it'll be useful for those who don't use popups. But it'd be much more useful if there was something that could be done about the editors who sigs are of the form SomeOtherName . It's a great nuisance not to be able tie up the names in a revision list with the names that appear onscreen, and to have to mouseover each sig in turn to find that the User:KingZogShootsAcidInTheWhiteHouse is the person who chooses to sign themselves as MaryPoppinsFiresAnAK47. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 00:38, 18 November 2007 (UTC)
 * The updated version does respect the 'nickname' a user specifies in their preferences. But since uses can have raw signatures that completely bypass the defaults, there isn't much that can be done with the defaults to fix this issue. &mdash; Carl (CBM · talk) 01:35, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

Updated in svn
The patch I submitted was added to revision r27473 in the Mediawiki source code. I don't know when it will become live. I created the special pages Mediawiki:Signature and Mediawiki:Signature-ip and added documentation on their respective talk pages. The format currently there will make signatures of these forms: It would be possible to format these other ways if desired. &mdash; Carl (CBM · talk) 21:25, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
 * 0.0.0.0 (talk)
 * Name (talk)


 * Excellent, this is a wonderful change, thanks! —Remember the dot (talk) 23:28, 13 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Excelllent--Phoenix-wiki (talk · contribs) 21:28, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Can you please remove the "--" from the begging of the default signature. It's both unnecessary and interferes with those who use their own preferred dashes or similar variant (or choose not to use any). Thank you. ~ -- UBeR (talk) 22:02, 16 November 2007 (UTC)


 * I started a thread below to resolve this issue. &mdash; Carl (CBM · talk) 22:38, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Separate footnotes from references
There should a It shows a warning similar to the one you suggested as long as you don't have the top edit to your own userspace. --ais523 10:54, 2 November 2007 (UTC)


 * That script didn't work for me. —Signed by KoЯn fan71 My TalkSign Here! 01:33, 3 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Also, when I made this proposal, I implied that your talk page would (should) be exempted, since Wikipedia has a New Messages banner, which, to my knowledge, picks up all edits on the talk page. —Signed by KoЯn fan71 My TalkSign Here! 01:35, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
 * The script only covers your own userpage; you're right, the new-messages banner picks up all edits to your talk page except minor edits made by bots. Remember to bypass your cache after installing it (that needs to be done for all scripts). --ais523 12:20, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

While the script is a good workaround, I like the original idea of having the message built in. I was thinking the same thing myself yesterday.  Citi Cat   ♫ 17:06, 4 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Ais523, I tried bypassing my cache and it still didn't work. Why wouldn't it work? And, when I added that other paragraph about when I made the proposal, it was because Gp75motorsports was unclear on the fact that the talk page would be exempt from the banner. Sorry for that bit of confusion. —Signed by KoЯn fan71 My TalkSign Here! 00:44, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I don't know why it isn't working for you; it does work for me. What browser are you using? --ais523 09:37, 5 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Citicat, if we obtain consensus for such a change to the software, then someone can file a bugzilla report for it. I support the idea of the userpage edit banner being built into the software. Fun  Pika  21:30, 5 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Ais, I'm using Firefox. —Signed by KoЯn fan71 My TalkSign Here! 00:56, 6 November 2007 (UTC)


 * So am I, and I can't think of any reason why it wouldn't work, unless it's a conflict with another script. What happens if you place it before Twinkle in your monobook.js? --ais523 16:19, 6 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Nothing. I don't get it. I put it all over the place in my monobook and it didn't work. Is it JavaScript? That could cause a problem as I'm putting it in my monobook.js. —Signed by KoЯn fan71 My TalkSign Here! 01:06, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Yes, it's JavaScript. I'm confused; you don't seem to be doing anything wrong at all, and I know that it works on Firefox because it does for me. Sometimes this sort of problem with username-dependent scripts is caused by unusual things in a users' username, but we both have the same sort of username (letters followed by numbers) and it can't even be that. Do you get an error when you try to run the script? You can type  into the address bar to open up Firefox's window where it reports errors. --ais523 18:01, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

I love the idea and I want to add it to my .js, but first one question: Does it work for subpages of your userpage as well, or just the main userpage? The above doesn't make it very clear. Thanks! Reywas92 Talk 17:17, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Userpag eonly. --ais523 18:01, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

I looked through the code and I noticed the very last parenthesis at the absolute end of the function right before the semicolon and the end. I read through the script and could not find where the opening parenthesis corresponding to that one was. You may want to double check me, but could that cause a problem? —Signed by KoЯn fan71 My TalkSign Here! 02:09, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Sorry about that. I looked through the code again and I missed a parenthesis that set it all right. I also looked at my javascript: and it didn't show errors involving the script. I don't know what could possibly be wrong. —Signed by KoЯn fan71 My TalkSign Here! 02:18, 8 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Great idea. It's especially useful for those of us who have a bunch of pages under one username. --Gp75motorsports 23:26, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

I'm just wondering, how exactly would I/we go about doing what FunPika said above? ("...if we obtain consensus for such a change to the software, then someone can file a bugzilla report for it. I support the idea of the userpage edit banner being built into the software.") —Signed by KoЯn fan71 My TalkSign Here! 00:35, 17 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Do that by going to Bugzilla and requesting the change. Although frankly I doubt this is enough consensus for a software change (remember this isn't to delete some random non-notable article, this is a change to the actual software. More consensus is probably needed for something like this). Fun  Pika  01:02, 21 November 2007 (UTC)