Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)/Archive 134

Article assessment links STILL not working
These links have been broken about 50% of the time for the past 6 months or so, it is very frustrating. I refer to the links on this table here: Wikipedia:WikiProject_Anatomy. Is it possible to file a bug report or change the links to a tool that works? Cheers, --Tom (LT) (talk) 04:13, 25 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Day 3 and still not working. Tool is "enwp10". Example link is . --Tom (LT) (talk) 20:59, 25 January 2015 (UTC)
 * If you urgently need some lists, Catscan 2 on WMFlabs can provide similar results. Just search for the needed category and check the correct page type in "Namespaces" (usually the talk page). A pre-defined example query for Anatomy templates would be " http://tools.wmflabs.org/catscan2/catscan2.php?categories=Template-Class_Anatomy_articles&ns[11]=1&doit=1 " (nowiki here, because of [] characters). You can also search for specific importance levels, listing both class and importance category as selection criterion. Hope that helps a bit, while we wait for the "enwp10" project to recover (can't help with that - not a developer or tools writer). GermanJoe (talk) 00:58, 26 January 2015 (UTC)

^^ (as the only obviously active maintainer listed at https://tools.wmflabs.org/ :-) --Quiddity (WMF) (talk) 01:04, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
 * I was logged in for other reasons and noticed this message. I am no longer a maintainer. I have requested to have my name removed from the list - I think that a cached version is being shown. I can say that the wp10 project could use one or more additional maintainers, but I cannot do it at this time. &mdash; Carl (CBM · talk) 01:35, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Project has been restarted and works again (thanks Theopolisme). See also Wikipedia talk:Version 1.0 Editorial Team/Index with some information about that project and recent requests and questions. GermanJoe (talk) 13:41, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
 * +1 confirmed results are now available. --User:Ceyockey ( talk to me ) 14:46, 27 January 2015 (UTC)

Search Reverts
Is there a way to contributions search an editor's history of "undo" reverts?

If not, is there any possibility of implementing a tag, or preferably and easier a checkbox, that would filter the contribution list to show all the "undo" reverts implemented by an editor?

It appears that "tags" has "Rapid reverts" as an option, but when I put the option in the tags field, it doesn't work for registered editors (as indicated by the description "Non-autoconfirmed user rapidly reverting edits")  –GodBlessYou2 (talk) 21:33, 25 January 2015 (UTC)
 * You can use the "Edit summary search" tool at the bottom of their contribs page, and search for "undid" or "reverted". There's really not a better way to do it, since revisions don't contain any other indication of whether or not they're a revert. Jackmcbarn (talk) 21:44, 25 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks. That's very helpful.GodBlessYou2 (talk) 22:02, 25 January 2015 (UTC)
 * I've checked this tool out for a number of editors who frequently do a total revert of other's edits. For some, what you suggest works fine.  Some editors, however, delete the autogenerated comment line, replacing it with some other explanation, or even nothing useful for recognizing it as a revert.
 * As a diagnostic and evaluation tool, I think it would be helpful to be able to develop metrics on editors who have a tendency to "protect" articles with rapid deletions instead of working to refine articles collaboratively. Being able to identify how frequently editors revert without refinement would be a helpful tool.  I'm sure there are plenty of reasons not to add an extra field to the database, but it would be helpful if there was an automated log showing that an edit completely reverted the previous edit.  This would be helpful in being able to review the "revert" activity of specific editors for discussions regarding whether or not their pattern of reverts are generally helpful or generally disruptive or may indicate a tendency to WP:OWN an article.—GodBlessYou2 (talk) 22:18, 25 January 2015 (UTC)
 * If you use the "undo" link on a single edit, the default edit summary is "Undid revision nnnn by xxxx (talk  )". But if you are viewing a diff of two or more edits, and use the "undo" link, the default edit summary is blank. -- Red rose64 (talk) 23:09, 25 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Interesting. A record of a reverting multiple edits should also be logged. Couldn't the database record that the "undo" link was used to initiate the edit and save a tag in the tag field (or some other field) indicating it was initiated as an "undo" when the edit is saved?–GodBlessYou2 (talk) 15:31, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
 * GodBlessYou2, why would you want to do that? Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 19:36, 26 January 2015 (UTC)


 * Well, Whatamidoing, I think it would be helpful to view a list of reverts made for many reasons, especially in cases where editors may have a pattern of rapidly reverting goodfaith edits rather than practicing WP:PRESERVE methods. It may also be useful in arbitration to be able to more easily see the pattern of reverts.  Outside Wikipedia, other wiki's might benefit from being able to see reverts, too.--GodBlessYou2 (talk) 21:38, 27 January 2015 (UTC)

Font-weight or '
If I'm writing a template, what would be better from technical point of view? Using or  ? I'm not talking about this kind of problem (an empty, which if using the  results in '), but generally, using span/  is better, because ... ? -- Edgars2007  (talk/contribs) 16:43, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
 * For now wiki markup is better, because it could be rendered differently, e.g., for mobile devices not supporting CSS. –Be..anyone (talk) 17:02, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
 * That is a stretch. I would prefer CSS because it prevents reversing the bold wiki markup, ie. when text is already bold, it stays bold.  17:21, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Unless purely decorative, or is at least better than span, because they are semantic HTML elements. —Th e DJ (talk • contribs) 22:20, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
 * is a good idea, even screen readers and text browsers should grok this. –Be..anyone (talk) 02:31, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Yes, the  element "represents strong importance, seriousness, or urgency for its contents", whereas the   element "represents a span of text to which attention is being drawn for utilitarian purposes without conveying any extra importance and with no implication of an alternate voice or mood". The first is semantic; the second is merely presentational. As for the   element, it "doesn't mean anything on its own", and relies on CSS styling to achieve a change of appearance, but cannot give a semantic meaning. -- Red rose64 (talk) 11:10, 27 January 2015 (UTC)

XTools moved to Labs?
For those of us who still have User:Hedonil/common.js in our script .js, clicking on "See Full statistics" at the top of any article now flips to this: "301 Moved Permanently This tool has moved to a new location. You will be redirected to tools.wmflabs.org/xtools-articleinfo/index.php?pageid=27092849&project=en.wikipedia.org&uselang=en shortly."

And then it hangs in a loop forever and never really redirects to anything.

However, I do notice that Labs has all the XTools listed there. The problem is that the redirect doesn't really redirect. Can anyone please either correct that, or supply a new script to substitute for Hedonil's old one. Thanks. — Maile (talk) 00:10, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
 * That's because the maintainers agreed that we should segregate the /ec and /articleinfo tools into there own webservice to improve overall stability since they were the top two most likely culprits for locking the whole thing up. If it is getting stuck there, then articleinfo itself is locked up and you just need to ping one of the maintainers  and one of us will restart it (I just restarted it now, FTR). :) —   00:32, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
 * This also means we found the tool causing xTools' entire instability.—cyberpower  Chat:Online 00:37, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks, both of you. It is indeed getting stuck at Labs, because when I try to open the Page History tool directly from Labs, that's the one that hangs.  Thank you for trying to restart it, but it still does not seem to be working. Still getting that message, either from the article or directly at Labs. — Maile  (talk) 00:42, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
 * , I'm not sure what you have going on, it's working perfectly for me.  please? —   00:54, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
 * , Mozilla, Windows NT 6.3; WOW64; rv:35.0, 5.0, Gecko 20100101, Firefox 35.0. OK, its really strange. As of this morning, progress. After I get the above message, it stalls a few seconds and then, the full page read out that always used to show.  However...when I scroll down that to "Page views", the only thing there is a "bla" link.  I click on that, and I get "Again something is messed up after Tool Labs database maintenance Sorry for that!No db-connection-" with an image that resembles a test pattern. So, therein, we are back to the original problem that has existed since Hedonil stopped editing. What happened to the daily page views? — Maile  (talk) 13:31, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
 * I'm pestering Coren to give me access to that tool to restore functionality. I pestered him today, but nothing.—cyberpower  Chat:Online 00:14, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Today's part of "Tech Days" for the WMF dev staff, so he may be busy with event-related things right now. Things should mostly be back to normal by next week. Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 01:08, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

Navigation popups style change
This is to let everyone know that I have fulfilled the edit request at Wikipedia talk:Tools/Navigation popups, which brings the style of navigation popups in line with that of Hovercards. The actual edit was made to the page MediaWiki:Gadget-navpop.css. If anyone would like the style tweaked, or the change reverted altogether, please voice your opinion at the edit request discussion. — Mr. Stradivarius  ♪ talk ♪ 05:28, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
 * I've reverted, seeing as the first couple of reactions weren't positive. If others could join the discussion about whether/how to tweak the styling, it would be appreciated. — Mr. Stradivarius  ♪ talk ♪ 05:43, 27 January 2015 (UTC)

Edit request references
Is there anything that can be done to clean up the references at the bottom of a talk page generated by edit requests, this can be highly confusing if you don't know why they're there ? Mlpearc ( open channel ) 19:09, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
 * -- Red rose64 (talk) 19:17, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Thank you (quick response also :P ) Now I have a follow up, is there a way to have edit semi-protected and similar templates, place that template if it's needed and not present ?  Mlpearc  ( open channel ) 19:27, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
 * It's nothing to do with (or similar). The problem occurs when somebody uses  on a page that has no    or similar on the page at any point after the last  that is on the page. -- Red rose64 (talk) 19:55, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
 * , no because the Edit protected template goes at the top of the section and Reflist-talk is required to be below the references in order to work. Do you use 's Edit Protected Helper script?  If so, maybe we could convince  to add a pseudo-reflist inside the edit request template box itself. :) —   20:10, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
 * ecThank you again,. Yes I do use that script and your suggestion is basically what I was asking (Sorry I didn't realize about the tags).   Mlpearc  ( open channel ) 20:22, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
 * It is nothing to do with Edit protected, either. The automatic reflist was showing at the bottom of the page, in the "Reliability of Popjustice" section, which has no . I placed a in the "Genres" section, because that is the only section containing ; it also has no . The section between them, "Semi-protected edit request on 25 January 2015", does have a, but that is irrelevant because that is neither the section with refs, nor the section where the refs were showing. -- Red rose64 (talk) 20:18, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
 * I guess I got things confused here, Sorry. I only mentioned edit semi-protected cuz that's when editors usually add the references to the page. Not because I thought the template was causing the issue.  Mlpearc  ( open channel ) 20:28, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
 * , something was misunderstood here. I read the OP as is there a way that Reflist-talk can be added to the various Edit protected templates so that if there are references in the section below that, the reflist will show up. My answer to that interpretation is no, putting the call to list the references in the template above the references will not work in that way.  My response had nothing specifically to do with the templates used. I hope this clarifies what I was saying, although it seems that Mlpearc understood what I was saying. :) —   20:58, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Mlpearc said "the references at the bottom of a talk page" and gave [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Lady_Gaga&oldid=644440715#Reliability_of_Popjustice a link], I followed that link, looked for the references, and found them exactly where Mlpearc had said they were (at the bottom). I also noticed also that they were not in a section that bore an edit request, and regardless of that, I cleaned up these refs as requested. The link that I gave in my first post shows exactly how I did that. -- Red rose64 (talk) 21:27, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
 * In my "Example" link, I wanted to show that there's no separation between the last section and the reference links. (also the article has nothing to do with the issue, just the example I choose).  Mlpearc  ( open channel ) 21:39, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
 * It's not practical to automatically add a reflist, since it doesn't work if it's above the references, and there's nowhere suitable to add it below them. Jackmcbarn (talk) 23:01, 27 January 2015 (UTC)

502 Bad Gateway
About five minutes ago I got the message "502 Bad Gateway". Does this indicate that my connectivity was lost due to a temporary condition? Robert McClenon (talk) 19:17, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
 * See Bot owners' noticeboard and Due to a newly-discovered security vulnerability all labs instances will be rebooted today. Full details. —  19:26, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
 * I wasn't running a bot. Does the reboot of lab instances affect connections of regular editors to the servers?  Robert McClenon (talk) 22:27, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
 * It affects all bots and tools that are hosted on labs. —   23:22, 27 January 2015 (UTC)

Preventing user talk pages from being moved
It often happens that a new user writes an article in his main user page and then moves it to the mainspace, taking his user talk page with it. Sometimes the redirect at the original talk page gets over-written with new messages, and the confusion becomes difficult to sort out. Would it be possible to arrange that main user talk pages do not, by default, move with the user page, but can only be moved by an admin? JohnCD (talk) 20:31, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
 * When you move a page, there is always an option (checked by default) to move the associated talk page. If you move the talk page by mistake, one can tag the redirect page with db-a7 and an admin will delete it.  20:51, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Yes, but the sort of inexperience newbie I am talking about doesn't understand that, and as the default is checked, his user talk page goes off into the mainspace with his article and probably gets deleted with it. JohnCD (talk) 21:24, 27 January 2015 (UTC)

Template access to Preferences:Appearance:Offset (or local time generated from it)?
I'm doing a template that will show today in both the Western Calendar and the Hebrew Calendar. What I would like to have access to is the Preferences Appearances:Offset value (or something related) in order for the template to change what day it displays for the Western Calendar at Midnight based on the user preferences for offset (and the Hebrew date to change at 6PM). Is the information as to what the user has as their Offset value available to templates? (Asked on Help Desk, the suggestion was to post here)Naraht (talk) 13:53, 18 January 2015 (UTC)
 * That is not possible, as it would either show a version of the page cached with someone else's timezone preference or would fragment the caches. To do something like this, you'd have to have some sort of JavaScript (in common.js or a gadget) that would add in the user-specific date on the client side. Anomie⚔ 17:32, 18 January 2015 (UTC)
 * I guess that makes sense, everything that the offset affects are pages where they have to be calculated each time in areas like special. However it is possible to have templates that include the date and time, so this would cause a more rapid flush of the cache, correct?Naraht (talk) 15:20, 19 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Yes, they do to an extent. Also the times displayed by such templates may well be out of date. Anomie⚔ 11:09, 20 January 2015 (UTC)
 * And to the extreme, they can include time. Can this cause the cache to empty every second? (I'm curious as to whether there are things in pages that would force the cache to be emptied quicker) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Naraht (talk • contribs) 18:47, 21 January 2015 (UTC)
 * No, there is a minimum. Offhand I think it's one day, but I don't recall for certain and I'm not feeling like looking it up at the moment ;) Anomie⚔ 04:14, 23 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Accessing an article today the box says "Today Tuesday 27 January 2015 AD 7 Bahman 1393 SH 6 Rabi'al - Thani 1436 AH".  The source code is "Today|AD|SH|AH".   Actually there are curly brackets round that but I haven't included them because I don't know what will happen.   When I tried to insert that template into a page all I got was a link to a U S television programme.   Can someone explain how the workings of this template can be unearthed? - The template has just been updated, but I'd still like an answer to my question. 156.61.250.250 (talk) 09:45, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
 * More info: there is a "Template:  Today" marked "This page is about U.S. TV program.   It is not to be confused with Date - computing templates based on current time."   Clicking on this link leads to "category Date - computing templates based on current time", and clicking on "Template:Today|AD|SH|AH" simply brings up what appears in the article.   Now I see this text is editable (from "Editing Template:  Today|AD|SH|AH") and the source text contains lots of parameters in curly brackets.   Taking one of these at random, "CURRENT DAYNAME" produces the output "Wednesday".   So where is the interface which enables editors to check whether a template does what it says on the tin? 156.61.250.250 (talk) 13:04, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
 * The template you're looking for is Template:Today/AD/SH/AH with forward slashes ("/") rather than pipes ("|"). In template syntax, pipes separate a template name from its parameters, so  invokes Template:Today, the navbox about the TV program.   invokes the correct Template:Today/AD/SH/AH. SiBr4 (talk) 15:00, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

Renaming of User:Zhaofeng Li/Reflinks
Hello, folks! Since the the original Reflinks tool is working again on his own server, User:GoingBatty suggests that we use another name for the new tool on Tool Labs. This makes sense, since it's confusing to have two tools with the same name, and the current name doesn't get the purpose of the tool (expanding bare references) across very well. The localised version of the name in Chinese is 来源扩充 (as in "citation expander") which makes its purpose clear. Any idea for a concise name? Zhaofeng Li [ talk... contribs... ] 00:37, 25 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Bummer - looks like Citation expander already exists. GoingBatty (talk) 01:23, 25 January 2015 (UTC)
 * True, and it's too long anyway. Zhaofeng Li [ talk... contribs... ] 01:31, 25 January 2015 (UTC)
 * "RefMaker" or "CiteMaker" also seem to be taken. Maybe "CiteExpand"?  GoingBatty (talk) 01:38, 25 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Perhaps we could have a naming contest on Zhaofeng Li's talk page, or a brainstorming session. I thought of "CiteIt", but that's a commercial product. Could we include all or part of Zhaofeng Li's name, or the English meaning of the characters, in honor of the creator? Any groan-worthy puns, like "AppleCiter"? – Margin1522 (talk) 04:40, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Maybe something like "zLinks", "zLinkRefs" or "zLinkrefs" could fit the bill? With "zLi", any of them would honor the creator. &mdash; Dsimic (talk | contribs) 08:25, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Agree with the idea of a contest/brainstorming sessiom on Zhaofeng Li's talk page. As of now, I would pick something with "zLi" in it over my previous suggestion.  GoingBatty (talk) 13:02, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks for all your comments! I'll start a brainstorming session on the tool's talk page later when I have more time. Zhaofeng Li [ talk... contribs... ] 08:49, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

Indian Religions: mobile site picture cropping
I don't know what team to talk to about this, but I figured you guys would know. https://www.dropbox.com/s/fqgcmgjmtw38qa5/Screenshot_2015-01-25-13-20-50.png?dl=0

While this is a great shot of the statue, I think that on mobile devices, this is probably not the photo we want to see here. The crop places undue visual emphasis on the statue's genitals. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Spaceboss (talk • contribs) 18:49, 25 January 2015‎ (UTC)


 * Is this the Wikipedia app? It seems to center the first image it finds. I've swapped the two top images.  19:16, 25 January 2015 (UTC)


 * Yes, that was the Wikipedia app. It's good to know how to change the picture it grabs for the header - it looks great now. Spaceboss (talk) 20:32, 25 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks for posting a link to the image. User:Deskana (WMF) may already have this problem on his list.  I believe that this only affects the Android app (not what you would see if you used a web browser on an Android device).  Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 18:13, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the feedback. I've submitted a patch that changes the cropping of images to focus the top of the image rather than the centre. That should stop this kind of thing from happening. In the mean time, changing the image should also work. Thanks! --Dan Garry, Wikimedia Foundation (talk) 17:54, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

Watchlist changes curtailed
This morninng I logged on to find my watchlist's list of changes severely shortened. It is only displaying changes as far back as ca. 11:00 pm last night (about 12 hours ago). I checked my preferences and they are unchanged, I should be seeing many more days' worth. Is this a know issue or something to report? &mdash; Cheers, Steelpillow (Talk) 10:27, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
 * To confirm, the "Show last" period displayed is stuck on "12 hours". When I click on a different value, the script seems to run but the setting sticks at 12 hours. &mdash; Cheers, Steelpillow (Talk) 16:04, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
 * "Works for me" isn't a very helpful response, even though it's true. Have you tried all the usual things, like WP:BYPASS?  What happens if you go to the full URL:  https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Watchlist&days=30 ?  Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 20:43, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Thank you for the suggestions. Hving hit the probem with Chromium on Linux, I am now on my Andriod tablet and I can confirm that the probem perists. I tried the direct url for 30 days and that just resets the dispay to 12 hours as well. Seems to be some sort of corruption of my Wikipedia account settings? &mdash; Cheers, Steelpillow (Talk) 21:32, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
 * How many pages are on your watchlist? There used to be a threshold (which was once 1,000 pages) beyond which a user's watchlist would only display the last twelve hours of changes – I'm not sure if this is still the case. Also, how many changes are displayed on your watchlist? That could also have something to do with it. Graham 87 06:03, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Good thoughts. However the number of pages was 351, and I just now trimmed it to 343 and the problem persists. The last few weeks it has been above 343 and the list of changes has been displaying fine. The number of changes displayed is whatever were made in the last 12 hours: there is a user setting above the list for "Show last 1 | 2 | 6 | 12 hours |1 | 3 | 7 | 30 days" and whichever I select it just reverts to 12 hours selected. &mdash; Cheers, Steelpillow (Talk) 07:11, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
 * What happens when you click https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Watchlist&days=3? Does the url continue to say days=3? Post the line of form "Below are the last $1 changes in the last $2 hours". What is the first two fields at Special:Preferences, and is "Expand watchlist to show all changes, not just the most recent" enabled? PrimeHunter (talk) 11:19, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
 * the url remains correct but the displayed list of changes does not match it. First two fields are: Days to show in Watchlist 5, Maximum number of changes... 250
 * Any threshold that exists is plenty more than 1,000 pages, since my watchlist is now 19,736 pages, and it will show me right back to 13:21, 29 December 2014 - a genuine 30 days. -- Red rose64 (talk) 13:28, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

Solved, thanks to. Maximum number of changes to show in expanded watchlist was 250. I recently added WP:ANI and that's when the problem kicked off - it ate all my allowance. Raising it to 1000 has solved the problem. All the 12 hr stuff seems like it must have been coincidence, as I was judging the duration set by the list that appeared. Many thanks to all who chipped in. &mdash; Cheers, Steelpillow (Talk) 16:16, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
 * If you set it to zero, that's treated as "no limit on count", and the only limit that then applies is the time period. -- Red rose64 (talk) 17:33, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Cool, I'll do that. I keep forgetting MediaWiki is coded by people who are doing what they want. :) &mdash; Cheers, Steelpillow (Talk) 21:19, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

Help Needed Copying a Template to Another Wiki
I asked here if I could borrow the 'In5' template and copy it to another wiki, but nobody's responded there yet. I would just copy the page's wikitext to a page with the same name on the other wiki (or could I just use template transclusion?) but the 'In5' template delegates the work that it does to a Lua module. How can I copy it, or do I even need to?

—&thinsp;RandomDSdevel (talk) 22:38, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Do you have admin rights on the other wiki? If so, you should be able to use [//shifti.org/wiki/Special:Import Special:Import]. -- Red rose64 (talk) 23:03, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Unfortunately, I actually don't have administrative rights over there. I am, however, on good terms with one of that site's admins, so it couldn't hurt just to ask him if he might do it for me!
 * —&thinsp;RandomDSdevel (talk) 20:29, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
 * You cannot transclude a template from another wiki. Special:Version versus http://shifti.org/wiki/Special:Version shows no Lua or Scribunto at the latter so you cannot use the current version of Template:In5. The page history [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:In5&action=history] shows non-Lua versions before 2013. PrimeHunter (talk) 00:02, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

Don't panic
To deploy a patch for an urgent security vulnerability, the operations team at the Wikimedia Foundation are rolling out restarts of all servers. If something is down, from the wiki to labs to thumbnail renders/image scalers to whatever, never fear! they shall be back up very shortly. If the outage of something lasts for a really long time, do let me know. Keegan (WMF) (talk) 23:57, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
 * - AFD Stats on Labs has been dead since the restart. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont)  10:58, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks, it looks like it's working again. Labs was being fussy. Keegan (WMF) (talk) 19:35, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

What's going on with this page?
Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex - Solid State Society appears to be suffering from every script error imaginable, and I don't see the source---it appears to be an internal scripts issue. Perhaps this is related to the post above, but on the off chance that it isn't, can someone take a look and determine what's happening? Loading previous revisions seems to restore the page to working order for me.

Here is what I am seeing:. Res</b> Mar 14:37, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
 * I saw the same thing. All errors disappeared after a simple purge though. SiBr4 (talk) 14:46, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Well, whatever it was it's gone now. <span style="font-family:Verdana,Arial,Helvetica"><b style="color:#333333; font-size:small;">Res</b> Mar 02:48, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

Bad page names
Https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:The Wyatt Family (American Guns), a redirect, is up for deletion. Attempts to link to it using wiki syntax render, brokenly, as Https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:The Wyatt Family (American Guns), which is actually a link to Draft:The. Should we have an edit filter to prevent such pages from being created? Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 18:34, 28 January 2015 (UTC)


 * Use the entity  instead of the first colon: Https&. -- Red rose64 (talk) 18:48, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
 * URL-like page titles are already forbidden by means of the title blacklist. However, there have recently been some bugs that caused non-admin/-TE users to be able to create blacklisted pages. See this archived thread. SiBr4 (talk) 19:01, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
 * , sure enough, the title that was deleted matches a blacklist entry. Yeah, that MediaWiki software issue was a bit annoying; glad it's fixed now. Steel1943  (talk) 19:08, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Andy Mabbett, a better venue to bring this concern up would probably be MediaWiki talk:Titleblacklist. (I was going to suggest that to you in the RFD discussion, but the discussion was closed before I had a chance. Someone who watches that page may have an idea how to add it to the title creation blacklist, but unfortunately, I personally am not sure what syntax would have to be added to the list to accomplish the task you are asking ... which I agree needs to be done somehow.) Steel1943  (talk) 19:06, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
 * (Never mind on that; looks like the deleted title already matches a blacklist entry, and was probably created as a result if the software issue that referenced above.)  Steel1943  (talk) 19:11, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

Stats broken?
I've just noticed that stats.grok.se appears to be broken as It failed to record any record for this article yesterday. Is there an issue as WikiViewStats is down too?  The C of E God Save the Queen!  ( talk ) 21:59, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
 * , It's just that one article, I think. I see stats for all my articles for Jan 27.  Here's the Main_Page stats. — Maile  (talk) 20:31, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

Infoboxes
I am a fairly new editor, but am having some difficulty with infoboxes. If for example, a person is say both Native American leader and a politician, Harry J. W. Belvin it does not appear that the boxes can be combined, thus, as I did there, does one have to use 2 boxes? Or is there a way to combine the information?

On several articles, though I have completed the tribal leadership position and language, that information does not actually show in the infobox. It may or may not be a critical piece of information to a programmer but for example in the case of Bill Osceola and Billy Osceola their information is so similar that ANY identifying characteristics that help one to determine which is the correct one may be critical. They did not hold the same tribal office, nor did they speak the same native tongue, but that information does not show in the infobox, though it was completed. Can these become visible fields?

Thank you for your assistance. SusunW (talk) 23:08, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
 * I've echoed part of your question here: Template_talk:Infobox_Native_American_leader ... I note that for language the template is wanting an ISO code and not a link to the language artice page, so for Bill Osceola that would be native_name_lang = mik ... and the infobox seems to use the "mik" to alert your browser that the nickname is in that language ... your browser yawns and ignores the info being thrown at it. I've not figured out what, if anything, happens to the known_for parameter info. --Tagishsimon (talk) 23:34, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks, I think. LOL. I have no earthly idea what an ISO code is, nor a how one figures out what one is. Programming is pretty much unintelligible to me, as a researcher. Can you tell me in simple language for a writer what that means and how one determines what it is? I think, that it doesn't matter if one knows the secret "code" or not as someone added the box to Minnie Evans (Potawatomi leader) and it still isn't visible. I admit freely that programming is way over my head, don't remotely understand it. SusunW (talk) 04:00, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
 * totally confused. Andy responded at the link above on template talk, still have no clue what any of it means. Is he saying it won't show up even if you fill it out? I am wayyyyyy too old to learn so many new tricks. ;) SusunW (talk) 04:13, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

You're not intimately familiar with ISO 639-3 Susun? I'm shocked!. From the top. You quite reasonably want to be able to specify a language and a known_for sentence, so they'll appear in the infobox. I'm hoping that Andy, or someone else, will look at that in a short while. The ISO code for Mikasuki language is to be found at the bottom of the infobox on the Mikasuki language page - it's mik. But be clear: the native_name_lang parameter, into which you entered Mikasuki language, is not designed to display a language in the infobox, but instead to specify the language of the native_name of the individual, if such has been added to the infobox (and in a way - ISO codes - useful to browsers and the wider semantic web, but of no use to the human eye). You should only need to hunt for ISO codes if you add native_names and want to do your best for posterity by specifying the language of the native name in a machine-readable format. We - people on wikipedia who understands templates better than I - need to be responsive to your requirement to get a human readable "language" parameter, and a working "known_for" parameter. And if this comes to pass, then we get you to where you perhaps ought to be - able to use Mikasuki language rather than "mik". (There's also the open which infobox to use / should multiple infoboxen be used query yet to be answered.) hth. --Tagishsimon (talk) 04:34, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
 * You have made my night. I can hardly breathe from laughing so hard. I told Montanabw earlier that it would be an interesting conversation, but that there was a real possibly no communication would occur due to the language barrier ;) and here I am learning that humor is universal. While I (think I do) understand that the language parameter is meant to specify the correct spelling of the native name, from a writer's standpoint, I will have verified that with multiple sources. (In the case of Minnie, I verified it with 3 sources before I determined the 2nd syllable should be waht rather than what.) We call it preponderance of evidence. Not very scientific, possibly, but the way researchers work -- verifiable and weighted. I would much rather be able to see the mother-tongue if it can be determined, as an identifying biographical figure, than as a formula for determining how to spell their name properly, as, it may important for identification purposes, as previously identified, and how the name is spelled, has quite often changed over time. (My own name, case in point, has varied at numerous points in my lifetime, but I am still me.) SusunW (talk) 05:07, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
 * I find your case for a human readable native langauge field unimpeachable, and I live in hope it'll be implemented. The machine readable code of which we spoke is not to do with spelling/verification, so much as to tell the web browser software that "this next bit's in French" on the off chance the browser wants to display French text in a different font, for instance. In the case of Minnie Evans, it turns up in the code which makes up the page as: . Which is nice. Meanwhile, I find no guidance on the question of multiple candidate infoboxes, although I'm still poking about on that question. I triple checked the spelling of your name before committing it to my preceding paragraph ... "verifiable and weighted", I muttered to myself, as I typed... --Tagishsimon (talk) 05:25, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Indeed. Mi cabeza da vueltas. I suspect, that you are way too young to be at the muttering stage yet, so I apologize for reducing you to muttering, though I admit, it is often where I am in muddling through Wikipedia. The infobox is a very complicated tool o.O What if it is a woman, Native leader, politician? Oy vey, we input which box? Thank you for the levity. Nothing is so serious that it cannot be laughed about. SusunW (talk) 06:04, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
 * It's not a good idea to simply say "ISO code", since there are many different things that are assigned codes by the International Organization for Standardization (ISO). In this context, it's better to say "ISO 639 code", but even that is ambiguous - here, the ISO 639-3 code is what is needed. -- Red rose64 (talk) 11:43, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Not so much "display text in a different font" (though that'd be possible), but to set the accent for (for example) text readers for blind users; or to tell translation software what's going on. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 14:55, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

Updates
Please see the template talk page for updates, and continue discussion there (where it will be seen by other interested parties). Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 14:55, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Spoiler: known_for has been fixed by Andy and is showing up on Bill Osceola. And consensus is being sought on the template talk page as to whether or not, and if so how to add a native language parameter to the infobox. --Tagishsimon (talk) 15:12, 29 January 2015 (UTC)


 * Thank you all so much. I am amazed at how fast y'all were able to resolve this. Total respect for what you do, to make the articles more reader friendly. SusunW (talk) 19:28, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

Embedding Infobox officeholder
How do we make Infobox officeholder embeddable within another infobox? I can do that for templates based on Infobox, but this one isn't. Please discuss at Template talk:Infobox officeholder, or boldly make it so! Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 15:10, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Should/could this be rewritten to be based on Infobox? --Tagishsimon (talk) 15:13, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Ideally yes; whether that's possible, I have no idea. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 17:59, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

Templated reasons in MediaWiki:Ipbreason-dropdown
Many of the user talk templates were standardized several years ago, including block messages; Template messages/User talk namespace. It appears MediaWiki:Ipbreason-dropdown was missed in the update. I'd like to correct them to match the correct template names, and add an informative note beside each one. For example, would be changed to  <-- Promotional username - Bad faith -->. Any objections? I'll do a full mockup of all changes in a sandbox if requested. --Geniac (talk) 03:18, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
 * spamusernameblock doesn't sound like a warning, and its name as is doesn't need an XML explanation, it's clear. But actually I don't care, if you think your solution is better, make it so. JFTR,  –Be..anyone (talk) 16:52, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure what you mean. spamusernameblock doesn't sounds like a warning because it isn't a warning; it's a block notice. I'm proposing updating block reasons, not any warnings. I've posted to the sandbox subpage MediaWiki:Ipbreason-dropdown/sandbox and I'll wait at least a day or two for discussion. And yeah I forgot the ! in my example here. --Geniac (talk) 01:46, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Don't see the problem as long as you don't break Special:Block (which uses that page as the input to its dropdown menu). Black Kite (talk) 22:37, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Yes, Special:Block uses that page. That's my point; the options in that dropdown menu need updated and some of them need annotated. Another improvement I've made in the sandbox is to group some related block reasons together in a logical order. --Geniac (talk) 01:14, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
 * uw = "user warning" is arguably misleading for a block, but no big deal. –Be..anyone (talk) 03:35, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
 * The uw- prefix simply indicates that a user talk template was a part of the standardisation effort of 2007, not that a template is necessarily a warning. That's neither here nor there; those are the current correct template names. --Geniac (talk) 03:45, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

Unenforced non-blank edit summaries
Hello! While editing lead section of the Data scrubbing article, I've accidentally clicked on the "Save page" button instead of "Show preview" and with no edit summary. The trouble is that I have "Prompt me when entering a blank edit summary" ticked in my preferences and blank edit summaries shouldn't be allowed; that enforcement seems to be working as expected when editing non-lead sections, but fails to protect lead section edits. While editing that lead section, I've used the "edit" link provided by having "Add an [edit] link for the lead section of a page" ticked in my preferences.

Perhaps this bug has something to do with the automated insertion of  into edit summaries when lead sections are edited, what was introduced about a year ago or so. However, IMHO it should be fixed, if you agree. &mdash; Dsimic (talk | contribs) 13:20, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
 * , I'm not sure if this is what happened in your case here, but if you click save, and notice some text out of place or something and go back to fix it or whatnot I've found it easy to forget I clicked save once. When you click save again, it goes right through because you've already clicked once and technically gotten your blank summary warning.  It's actually never prevented saving, it just takes you back to the edit window and doesn't let you know why.  It can be very confusing to new users.  I'll try to put in a phab ticket today if I can remember. :) —   14:20, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I didn't mean that edits with no summaries are completely impossible, instead I had those "first click" warnings in mind. Sorry for not describing it more precisely.  However, just to make sure, I've tried to reproduce this bug, and  on a lead section, with no edit summary provided, was saved immediately after clicking on "Save page" with no warnings or anything.  So, that's what happened in the first place. :) &mdash; Dsimic (talk | contribs) 14:44, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Sooo... is this a bug or a feature? :) &mdash; Dsimic (talk | contribs) 11:35, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Nobody finds it important?, maybe? &mdash; Dsimic (talk | contribs) 12:50, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
 * It seems like a minor issue and I doubt it can be fixed without an unreasonable effort by the developers to adapt a MediaWiki feature to take a gadget into consideration. "Prompt me when entering a blank edit summary" at Special:Preferences is part of the MediaWiki software which powers thousands of wikis. "Add an [edit] link for the lead section of a page" and everything else at Special:Preferences is made at the English Wikipedia, in this case MediaWiki:Gadget-edittop.js where  in the edit summary was added in [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Gadget-edittop.js&diff=595448628&oldid=573136783] after discussion at Village pump (technical)/Archive 123. If you really want to avoid the issue then you could disable the gadget and make a version in  without  . You could probably just copy code from MediaWiki:Gadget-edittop.js and remove a few things near the end without having to know JavaScript. PrimeHunter (talk) 13:20, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
 * I really don't have time right now, but what I would do is modify the gadget to check if the `warn on blank summary` option is activated  and then hijack the  button to see   and if it does throw   and then if they click OK   or if they click cancel do  . Anyways, I don't currently have access to gadget pages and I'm too busy to work up and test it in a sandbox at this time.  Ping me back in a couple three weeks or so if you can't find someone else to do it and I'd be happy to. :) —   14:52, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Went ahead and had a look at includes/EditPage.php from MediaWiki 1.24.1: basically, MediaWiki sends an MD5 hash of the default edit summary as a value of the form variable  on edit pages, and compares it when the form is submitted later to see whether a summary was entered (better said, whether it was modified).  Gadget-edittop.js jumps into the middle of that and pretty much "breaks" the relationship between the default edit summary and its stored MD5 hash.  In more detail, Gadget-edittop.js presets the summary using GET variable , what is additionally handled in includes/EditPage.php as a fix for bug #17416: if submitted using  , edit summary is checked only to be non-empty (the default summary is forcibly assumed to be empty) –  that's why /* top */ is accepted.
 * Thus, Gadget-edittop.js should instead set the summary by modifying  form varible upon the initial loading of edit pages, and should also initially set the   to the value of  .  That should correct this issue, by establishing the same relationship as if the setting of a default edit summary was performed by MediaWiki.  Would something like that be doable in Gadget-edittop.js? &mdash; Dsimic (talk | contribs) 15:01, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Okay, so then T19416 apparently isn't fixed or was rebroken is what you are saying?, since you're the one that marked this as resolved, maybe you or (bug author?) can help clarify there. —   19:03, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Well, that's what the code in MediaWiki 1.24.1 does (see lines 2428–2433 in includes/EditPage.php). If that behavior is changed, then it seems that Gadget-edittop.js should be working as expected with no modifications. &mdash; Dsimic (talk | contribs) 20:04, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
 * T19416 asks to not require a different edit summary when &summary= is set. MrBlueSky (talk) 21:24, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Hm, the whole T19416 is like "well, I like my waffles with xyz syrup" with no real explanation and no analysis on what else could be affected by such changes. Maybe I'm missing something, but in a request like this it would be important to state where pre-specified summaries shouldn't be validated to be different when a page is submitted; as-is, IMHO it doesn't look like it's about a bug or specific misbehavior. &mdash; Dsimic (talk | contribs) 21:39, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Well, I guess this is one of those WP:DEADHORSEs. :) &mdash; Dsimic (talk | contribs) 06:00, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Well, I guess this is one of those WP:DEADHORSEs. :) &mdash; Dsimic (talk | contribs) 06:00, 31 January 2015 (UTC)

Japanese and Chinese character forms
Issues sometimes arise with browsers displaying the wrong form (Chinese or Japanese) of a particular character (e.g. 直 versus 直). Typically they seem to default to Chinese, which is inappropriate for Japanese content. Japanese (or Chinese) can be forced using the HTML "lang" parameter or various templates that presumably generate this internally, but it is highly tedious to do this throughout a long article that makes extensive use of such characters. Instead, what is needed is a way to set a default (Chinese or Japanese) for a whole article. Is this currently possible, and, if not, could I place a request for it to be considered as an enhancement? 109.157.11.14 (talk) 21:36, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Can you give an example of each? --  Gadget850talk 21:38, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Do you mean an example of a character that looks different in the two languages? I gave an example at the start of my post. If they look the same to you then it must be due to some local issue on your machine (e.g. maybe you don't have a Japanese font installed). If you don't mean this then I'm afraid I don't understand what you are asking. 109.157.11.14 (talk) 22:04, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
 * For those like me who didn't know the issue, it appears that some Unicode characters are supposed to render differently depending whether they are part of a Chinese or Japanese text.  renders as: 直 and 直 contain the same character 直. The zh and ja version render differently for me. The third unmarked version renders like the Japanese in my Firefox 35.0.1 on Windows Vista. So does all three in the nowiki text. lang merely adds a "span lang=". I see exactly the same if "span lang=" is made directly.   renders as: 直 and 直 contain the same character 直. PrimeHunter (talk) 22:04, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
 * The first samples appear different to me. Please provide examples where you see the problem: what articles? --  Gadget850talk 22:07, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Hes not saying anywhere is rendering it wrong, hes saying its tedious to have to set the language for every character, and would like to set it once for the whole page. Could a template at the top of the page set a variable that could then be read as a default value for unicode display later in the page? Gaijin42 (talk) 22:09, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
 * As I understand it, the display is potentially incorrect in any article that does not explicitly set the language (directly or indirectly via a template) every time Japanese or Chinese characters are used. Whether it is actually incorrect depends on what the browser does by default. Note also that most characters render the same. Only a few are different. 109.157.11.14 (talk) 22:38, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
 * When I read "whole article" then I infer that certain articles have a problem. What articles and what are some of the wrong characters in that article? --  Gadget850talk 22:45, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
 * I can't remember now, and it doesn't matter. It is a general usability/maintainablity thing. For example, Japanese grammar has masses of Japanese text with no language set. If there any any uses of these dual-form characters (I haven't checked the whole article!) then they would likely display incorrectly. Rather than going through checking every line and applying "lang=", a better solution is clearly to set the language once at the top of the article. 109.157.11.14 (talk) 22:50, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
 * The  attribute is already set at the top of every article, and it is set to   because this is the English Wikipedia. On the Japanese Wikipedia, pages have   set at the top. This code must match the language of the page as a whole: if any part is not in the default language, that part should be marked up as being in that other language (whether by using   or some other element isn't important), but if that element has (say) the   attribute, it cannot enclose any text that is not in Japanese, unless that text is itself marked up using (say)  for text in English. -- Red rose64 (talk) 23:33, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
 * It couldn't override the main language being English, of course. What would be convenient is a directive "everywhere you find Chinese/Japanese characters, set the language as Japanese (or Chinese)". 109.157.11.14 (talk) 00:12, 30 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Theoretically, you could write a parser function that could set a value like this for the whole page (a little like DEFAULTSORT). However, while it could work on a small subset of pages, I can see inherent problems on getting it to work for all pages in all languages. Even with a language pairing like English and Japanese that use different character sets, it would be difficult for a program to reliably tell which content was English and which was Japanese. For example, 三菱東京UFJ銀行 (Mitsubishi Tokyo UFJ Bank) should be tagged as being Japanese, but I could easily see a program mistakenly tagging the "UFJ" in the middle as being in English. And it only gets more complicated when you consider language pairings with the same or similar character sets, or pages that contain text in three or more languages. Tagging Japanese text manually may be a pain, but as far as I can see it is the only reliable way of getting it right. — <span style="color: #194D00; font-family: Palatino, Times, serif">Mr. Stradivarius  ♪ talk ♪ 11:44, 30 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Redrose64 is right: every English Wikipedia page has the language set to English by the MediaWiki software. Where other languages such as Chinese or Japanese are used, we have templates to set the language code. Without specific page examples, I can't see what is going on and I can't help. --  Gadget850talk 23:53, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
 * I have given you a page example. I believe I have explained the issue clearly enough. I don't know why you can't seem to understand it. 109.157.11.14 (talk) 00:09, 30 January 2015 (UTC)
 * I see you did point out Japanese grammar. ("I can't remember now, and it doesn't matter." made me skip over the example). All of the Japanese text should be enclosed in lang-ja for proper language support. As PrimeHunter pointed out, the characters render differently when different language templates are used or not used. We have a series of templates for language support. --  Gadget850talk 00:41, 30 January 2015 (UTC)
 * In both Chinese and Japanese 直 (U+76F4) is the same character with the same meaning. The difference is that the glyph in Chinese fonts looks different from the glyph in Japanese fonts. This FAQ from unicode.org explains how this works, using the example of this character (U+76F4). So if we had a global tag for the whole page, we would be telling the browser that we want one font or the other for characters in the Asian code range. I think that modern browsers already have heuristics to handle this and usually get it right. For example, Japanese grammar and Chinese grammar both display fine for me, even though neither specifies the lang= for all characters. The problems tend to come up when pages contain mixed languages. One example is this page. If you look at the HTML for that page, it handles the 3 different glyph sets in the same way that we do, by wrapping the characters in "lang=ja" or "lang=zh-Hant" spans. We can always do the same thing on Wikipedia if the characters are not displaying properly. – Margin1522 (talk) 06:24, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

Help needed with recursive template
I wrote a template which takes as its single unnamed parameter either a year or the word 'current'. In the latter case it determines from wikidata what the current year is, then calls itself with that value.

Documentation tells me recursion is fine for one level. However I got a recursion error straight away. Then I tried using safesubst: which seemed to work, but only later did I see that it did a regular substitution. Currently the only valid years for input are 2007 and 2010, but at the next census-like point there will be a later year, which I want 'current' to reach. That won't happen with substituted code. I know I can break this into two templates, one to determine the current year which is invoked from the other. But I'd like to know whether recursion is allowed or not.

1st version gave recursion error then safesubst: (or so I thought)

which became

As a supplementary, how does safesubst differ from subst (in words I can understand)? --Roger Camotes (talk) 13:42, 30 January 2015 (UTC)
 * As far as I know, no recursion is possible in wikicode. So you would have to use a simple ifeq on the main template and move the main code to the subtemplate. I have done this to Template:PH census (feel free to revert) but I'm not sure if the wikidata fetch is working correctly yet &mdash; Martin (MSGJ · talk) 16:18, 30 January 2015 (UTC)
 * A template may call itself once; a second level of recursion will throw " Template loop detected: Template:Template sandbox " (or whatever the template name is). -- Red rose64 (talk) 16:49, 30 January 2015 (UTC)
 * That's what I thought, but it gave the error on the first recursion.  – that's what I was after.  The subst'ed version wasn't even correct.--Roger Camotes (talk) 18:53, 30 January 2015 (UTC)


 * I hope you don't mind, I tucked some of that away in a collapsed section as it was making the page render in a way that was impossible to read. Beeblebrox (talk) 17:17, 30 January 2015 (UTC)
 * "it determines from wikidata what the current year is, then calls itself with that value." That's a terrible use for recursion, and there's no way to make that work. Either write your code in Lua instead, or use a /core template. Jackmcbarn (talk) 20:36, 30 January 2015 (UTC)
 * If all that you need is the current year, that's ... er ... which returns 2024. See H:MW. -- Red rose64 (talk) 20:40, 30 January 2015 (UTC)
 * "current year" was a confusing description. If "current" is passed then the template pulls the census year from the Wikidata entry for the article. You could just make the test in the switch like this: . A subtemplate also works fine. I agree an attempt at recursion is a bad idea. PrimeHunter (talk) 20:54, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

Find red links
Hello. Is there a way to find all red links that are in all the articles of a certain category? Xaris333 (talk) 21:28, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
 * There is in AWB: make a list of pages in the category, save the list, convert it to a pipe-separated list, and make a new list using "Links on page (only redlinks)" for those pages. If you don't use AWB, I could make the list for you if you gave the category name. SiBr4 (talk) 21:41, 28 January 2015 (UTC)


 * User:SiBr4 thank you! I did it! Xaris333 (talk) 22:13, 28 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks from me, too, as I didn't know I could provide a piped list of pages for that purpose, and I've been using AWB since last summer. Stevie is the man!  Talk • Work 15:10, 31 January 2015 (UTC)

Wikipedia's eMail interface
Over the past month or two, I have had problems using our eMail interface (on 4 or 5 occasions, most recently on this timestamped day). The messages were either prolonged in delay, or not delivered at all – in every instance, I was not sent a copy of the email either, which my preferences stipulate, should happen. Any ideas? Thank you.--John Cline (talk) 06:59, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
 * You may be running into the bug described at phab:T66795, if your email provider is Yahoo or one of the others mentioned on that bug page. -- John of Reading (talk) 09:35, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Thank you, this seems to be describing my problem.--John Cline (talk) 10:33, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
 * For those unaware, having an email account with Yahoo!, AOL, Comcast, Hotmail, GMail, or any other email provider that has set their Domain-based Message Authentication, Reporting & Conformance (DMARC) policy to   will prevent using Special:EmailUser. Since the MediaWiki software is set up to spoof sending emails with the from address set to pretend it is sending directly from your mail client that has a domain that does not match the sender domain, it causes it to be rejected by mail hosts instead of sending directly from the local domain with the reply to address set as your address. —   13:06, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Slight clarification yahoo.com and aol.com have set DMARC policy to p=reject . Others such as gmail.com and outlook.com (the new hotmail.com) and mail.ru have a setting of p=none   . Yahoo explains their policy here. Some other sites don't publish records. --<span style="font-family:'Segoe Script',cursive; color:blue;">Mrjulesd  <span style="font-family:'Segoe Script',cursive; color:orange;">(talk)  13:43, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Thank you Technical 13 and Mrjulesd. I am curious, will this situation also affect one's ability to get a password reset sent to the email address? It may seem obvious to the more technically fluent within our midst; but I must ask: what is a good/best manner of mitigation, or is this somehow in our own best interest; whereas instead, I should adopt a mindset of acceptance?--John Cline (talk) 13:55, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
 * , it shouldn't interfere with the ability to get a password reset because those emails are actually coming from the the domain they say they are coming from. Those emails come from something like   and have a sender set as  .  The issue is when we try to send email from one user to another and the emails actually come from   but the sender is set to  .  The way to fix this of course, although apparently not as simple as it seems, is to have the email come from , have the sender set to  , and have the reply-to set to  . —   14:15, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
 * And to be very clear, this isn't broken on Wikipedia's end, some mail provider have decided to block these messages and the complaint technically should be from their customers to them (customer being a VERY loose word here as these are free providers whose actual customers are advertisers, email users are their product) . I agree with T13 above that we could band-aid our system and the primary arguments against it all seem to be along the line of "sending a message to these providers that they shouldn't do this" - however I think the chance the providers will actually care about out message is slim to none. , I haven't followed this very closely, but if this is enwiki specific any reason an RFC to change this behavior would be rejected by the foundation? —  xaosflux  Talk 14:52, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
 * , it's not enwp specific. It affects all MediaWiki software customers.  That said, I still think that we should hold an RfC on whether or not we should formally complain to the foundation as a community that is a customer. The issue I have with calling it a bandaid to fix something that email providers shouldn't do is that more and more email providers are doing it.  Where is the threshold when the foundation accepts this is forward progress and will be the accepted norm? This is a question I can not answer and would love to hear feedback from the foundation on. —   15:05, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
 * I won't drop the bandaid calling :), but do think we should change this configuration. I'm missing the why this has to be a production process change for everyone -- even if it is a software change-should be able to be parameterized per project, no? —  xaosflux  Talk 15:10, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
 * I need to dig out the code for that special page and how it is processed to know for sure how much work it would be but it is certainly possible to be able to have it per project. —  16:12, 31 January 2015 (UTC)


 * One workaround at the moment is to have a second e-mail address, for example with gmail.com or outlook.com. Their current DMARC policy allows spoofing. But of course that could change in the future. Also, if anyone from a yahoo.com address tried to send you an e-mail through the system you'd suffer the same problem.
 * @everyone surely the best solution for the mediawiki software to spoof sender e-mail addresses slightly differently? For example if example@yahoo.com sent an e-mail, the mediawiki software could spoof the e-mail address something like example@WIKIPEDIA_yahoo.com? Of course to reply the e-mail address would have to altered, but at least the e-mail would be received. --<span style="font-family:'Segoe Script',cursive; color:blue;">Mrjulesd <span style="font-family:'Segoe Script',cursive; color:orange;">(talk)  15:56, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Altering is not even needed. All they need to do as add an appropriate reply-to: field and clicking reply will automatically put in the correct address.  —   16:12, 31 January 2015 (UTC)

Urbane Israel
Hi

There is a title on the Template:Largest cities of Israel that currently reads: Largest cities or towns of Israel which I would like to read Largest urban areas of Israel or Largest urban localities of Israel as per source material here. Help would be appreciated. thanks. GregKaye 15:40, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Edit the page Template:Largest cities of Israel, and inside the template, add the parameter urban areas -- Red rose64 (talk) 16:12, 31 January 2015 (UTC)

Categorization of stub tags doesn't work on creation
For some reason, when I've been creating new stub tags, when I save them the first time they don't show up in the category. This is always fixed by saving it the second time without editing it (null edit). I saw this both with Arizona-sport-stub (created as upmerged to 2 populated categories) and to NYC-sport-stub. Any idea why that's happenning? עוד מישהו Od Mishehu 09:57, 1 February 2015 (UTC)
 * The template - which is the core of every stub template - was Lua-ised a few days ago, so it's best to point out new problems at Template talk:Asbox, which has 45 watchers including me. Or at Module talk:Asbox, if you want to attract a possibly more knowledgeable (but smaller, just 5 watchers) audience. -- Red rose64 (talk) 14:05, 1 February 2015 (UTC)

How to - create both category and category talk page with template
I am a little stuck, probably just a little slow in understanding. I have been creating templates for the creation of categories and I am wondering how I could using the same template also create category talk pages. For instance, consider Media companies established in year cat; in addition to creating the category, I would like to create the associated talk page and put as the starting content. I've looked a bit at the Magic Word information in mediawiki, but I'm having a tough time understanding specifically how to do this. Thanks for your input. (please include in responding so I can get direct notice of your input -- thanks)  --User:Ceyockey ( talk to me ) 16:04, 1 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Templates don't create pages (categories or otherwise) - people and bots do. Do you mean that you want to put a link into a template, where if somebody clicks that link, they get taken to the edit screen? -- Red rose64 (talk) 16:09, 1 February 2015 (UTC)
 * OK - simpler explanation. In creating a page such as Category:Media companies established in 2015, if I apply the template Media companies established in year cat as the content and save the page, not only will the category page contain the desired content, but also the associated talk page will be created bearing the content WikiProject Companies.  In short, by creating the category page, the category talk page will also be created without having to manually add content to that page (i.e. will not have to click on the red talk tab and manually add the wikiproject template. --User:Ceyockey ( talk to me ) 16:14, 1 February 2015 (UTC)
 * P.S. I do understand it might not be possible to do this, that, in fact, one might still need to click on a link to invoke creation of the talk page. If that is the case, might it be possible to auto-populate the newly created page with the desired content so that one need only save the page rather than manually inserting content. Thanks. --User:Ceyockey ( talk to me ) 16:30, 1 February 2015 (UTC)
 * You say "not only will the category page contain the desired content, but also the associated talk page will be created bearing the content WikiProject Companies" - I've looked at the template and it has nothing special that might do this. It's transcluded on two category pages, and ; both have a talk page, which was created by yourself and going by the [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category_talk:Media_companies_established_in_1957&action=history page history] there is no evidence that it was automatic - you must have clicked on the "talk" tab, pasted in   and saved (please note, category is redundant). Can you give an example of a talk page which was clearly created automatically, in the manner that you describe? -- Red rose64 (talk) 16:48, 1 February 2015 (UTC)


 * , it doesn't work that way. If this is a common application however, a userscript could be created to allow easy creation of both pages in a minimal number of clicks. Let me know if this is desired, exactly what needs to be posted on which pages, and a list of possible editors or projects that would be interested in this. Thanks. —  16:50, 1 February 2015 (UTC)
 * See also AutoWikiBrowser/Create new pages with 2 processes to semi-automatically create pages with some predefined content. Depends on the number of uses, if it's really efficient to dig deeper into that somewhat complex topic (or do it manually like our forefathers :) ). I haven't used that approach yet. GermanJoe (talk) 16:54, 1 February 2015 (UTC)

Date parsing
Resolved&#58; Magog the Ogre (t • c) 19:15, 1 February 2015 (UTC) Let's say I feed the following string into a template: 20150131. I would like the template to spit out the previous and next dates, which would be 20150130 and 20150201 respectively. Is this doable with templates on Commons or templates on another project which I could copy to Commons? Magog the Ogre (t • c) 18:03, 1 February 2015 (UTC)
 * → and   →  -- Red rose64 (talk) 18:45, 1 February 2015 (UTC)

Rollback
Let me preface this by saying I am only asking for technical information on the feasibility of this idea. I just want to know if we can do it before opening a discussion of whether we should. Thanks.

So, the actual idea: rollback as a user right is deprecated and instead it becomes an optional gadget like Twinkle that autoconfirmed users can turn on or off for themselves in the "gadgets" tab of their preferences.

Is that possible, and if so can it be done locally or do we need the foundation to get involved? Also, any guesses about the time frame to implement it should it be approved? Beeblebrox (talk) 17:23, 30 January 2015 (UTC)
 * The simplest way would be to just give rollback rights to all autoconfirmed users, hide the actual links with CSS, then have a gadget to override that and display them. Another way would be to use $wgGroupsAddToSelf, which could allow autoconfirmed users to add themselves to the rollback group. Both would require relatively trivial changes to the site configuration, but no changes to the software itself. Mr.Z-man 17:32, 30 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Just remember we'd still need some way to restrict access to tools like Huggle. Huggle should not be enabled as a gadget. Maybe that can be what the "vandal fighter" right is for =P &mdash;  MusikAnimal talk 17:38, 30 January 2015 (UTC)
 * I might also add if we do create a separate right for Huggle and others, that would conflict with the cross-wiki support of those tools, as they look for rollback on other wikis but will have to be updated to look for a different right on enwiki. We'd also need to update STiki, Igloo and probably others as well. The biggest problem, I think, is that the sneakiest of the sneakiest vandals could create an account, wait till they become autoconfirmed, enable the rollback gadget, then use an older version of Huggle to cause massive damage. All I'm saying is we'd need to somehow ensure users can't get access to powerful semi-automated tools without explicitly being granted the permission on a case by case basis (except is STiki where you automatically get access after 1000 mainspace edits). &mdash;  MusikAnimal talk 20:28, 30 January 2015 (UTC)
 * A sneaky vandal could already easily use Huggle without being a rollbacker (in theory, they could as an IP). Jackmcbarn (talk) 20:35, 30 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Really?! Are the developers aware of this? If it's easy to do we should probably figure out how to fix it! &mdash;  MusikAnimal talk 23:50, 30 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Yes, really, and by its nature, it's inherently unfixable. For WP:BEANS reasons, I'm not going to provide details here, but I'll email them to you if you want. Jackmcbarn (talk) 23:55, 30 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Understandable. I'm intrigued, do contact me if you do not mind! :) &mdash;  MusikAnimal talk 23:57, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

Since I don't that's WP:BEANS, I'll give some hints here. For those interested, it's possible as 1) It's a wiki 2) All the userright checking is done client-side 3) Huggle can do "software rollback". Zhaofeng Li [ talk... contribs... ] 00:13, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
 * I'd support rolling rollback into reviewer and eliminating the extra hat. The reason I say roll it into the next closest grantable right instead of autoconfirmed is so that the community will still have control over who has it without having to revoke the lowest level of access.  I'd suggest doing it as a two step process, first add the rollbacker rights to reviewer explicitly.  Then give the developers and the community a (few) months notice that rollbacker is being deprecated and inform them they need to update their code accordingly.  Make sure that all notices mention that assistance will be available for those in need of it.  Then, when whatever is agreed to be a good amount of time has elapsed, run a script that removes the rollback group from all users listed in it and adds those users to reviewer if they are not already a part of that group.  Once that is done it will be safe to eliminate the unused and unneeded group entirely. —   16:21, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
 * So far I am only seeing one post here that seems to be responding to the question I actually asked. there is a reason I asked here, I am only looking to see if this is possible, this board is not the place to discuss an actual policy change. If I'm reading Mr Z-man's answer correctly the answer is that it probably is possible. Does anyone else have a take on that? Beeblebrox (talk) 18:37, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Since Twinkle already does it, it is obviously possible. The only question left is what to do with the rollback group itself. —   19:08, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Since the answer seems to be that it is possible I've gone ahead and proposed it at Requests for comment/Rollback 2015. Beeblebrox (talk) 21:43, 1 February 2015 (UTC)

External link icons
Different icons for e.g. https:// (see File:External link icons in Vector.png) have been withdrawn, see 56604.

The page Help:External link icons needs updating. Hoping someone here can be bothered. – Fayenatic  L ondon 15:01, 31 January 2015 (UTC)


 * Phabricator adds 2000 to bugzilla numbers so you mean 54604 = T56604. PrimeHunter (talk) 15:17, 31 January 2015 (UTC)


 * Help:External link icons is self-updating. MonoBook and Modern still use a number of icons; the help page shows the currently selected skin and different skins can be selected from the page heading. --  Gadget850talk 18:50, 31 January 2015 (UTC)


 * We removed them from Vector some time ago. Should we remove them for Monobook and Modern as well?  21:12, 31 January 2015 (UTC)


 * I think they are of limited value. And not accessible, so of no use to screen readers. The same for the locally added PDF icon. --  Gadget850talk 21:42, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
 * <tt>ftp:</tt> vs. <tt>http:</tt> is relevant for me, and PDF as a clear don't is also important, but IIRC the ftp-icon sucked. –Be..anyone (talk) 23:45, 1 February 2015 (UTC)


 * The Vector FTP icon was a generic document. --  Gadget850talk 00:27, 2 February 2015 (UTC)

Tech News: 2015-06
<section begin="technews-2015-W06"/> Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Problems
 * There was a security issue on Wikimedia Labs. Many Labs tools were down after the issue was fixed.

Software changes this week
 * The new version of MediaWiki has been on test wikis and MediaWiki.org since January 14. It will be on non-Wikipedia wikis from February 3. It will be on all Wikipedias from February 4 (calendar).
 * The "Save page" button in the VisualEditor toolbar is now blue rather than green. This is the same as on the mobile site.
 * You can now edit pages on the draft namespace with VisualEditor on the Russian Wikipedia and Hebrew Wikipedia. You can ask to get VisualEditor for a namespace on your wiki. When your community agrees, ask in Phabricator.

Tech news prepared by tech ambassadors and posted by bot • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe. <section end="technews-2015-W06"/> 16:31, 2 February 2015 (UTC)

XTools
Hi, XTools are wonderful. Thanks ! However it may need some improvements.I recently checked some articles I've created and I saw some articles which are live but labelled "deleted" and also some others which I'haven't created. Nedim Ardoğa (talk) 20:21, 2 February 2015 (UTC)

VisualEditor News 2015—#1


Since the last newsletter, the Editing Team has fixed many bugs and worked on VisualEditor's appearance, the coming Citoid reference service, and support for languages with complex input requirements. Status reports are posted on Mediawiki.org. Upcoming plans are posted at the VisualEditor roadmap.

The Wikimedia Foundation has named its top priorities for this quarter (January to March). The first priority is making VisualEditor ready for deployment by default to all new users and logged-out users at the remaining large Wikipedias. You can help identify these requirements. There will be weekly triage meetings which will be open to volunteers beginning Wednesday, 11 February 2015 at 12:00 (noon) PST (20:00 UTC). Tell Vice President of Engineering Damon Sicore, Product Manager James Forrester and other team members which bugs and features are most important to you. The decisions made at these meetings will determine what work is necessary for this quarter's goal of making VisualEditor ready for deployment to new users. The presence of volunteers who enjoy contributing MediaWiki code is particularly appreciated. Information about how to join the meeting will be posted at mw:Talk:VisualEditor/Portal shortly before the meeting begins. Due to some breaking changes in MobileFrontend and VisualEditor, VisualEditor was not working correctly on the mobile site for a couple of days in early January. The teams apologize for the problem.

Recent improvements
The new design for VisualEditor aligns with MediaWiki's Front-End Standards as led by the Design team. Several new versions of the OOjs UI library have also been released, and these also affect the appearance of VisualEditor and other MediaWiki software extensions. Most changes were minor, like changing the text size and the amount of white space in some windows. Buttons are consistently color-coded to indicate whether the action: The TemplateData editor has been completely re-written to use a different design (T67815) based on the same OOjs UI system as VisualEditor (T73746). This change fixed a couple of existing bugs (T73077 and T73078) and improved usability.
 * starts a new task, like opening the dialog: blue ,
 * takes a constructive action, like inserting a citation: green ,
 * might remove or lose your work, like removing a link: red, or
 * is neutral, like opening a link in a new browser window: gray.

Search and replace in long documents is now faster. It does not highlight every occurrence if there are more than 100 on-screen at once (T78234).

Editors at the Hebrew and Russian Wikipedias requested the ability to use VisualEditor in the "Article Incubator" or drafts namespace (T86688, T87027). If your community would like VisualEditor enabled on another namespace on your wiki, then you can file a request in Phabricator. Please include a link to a community discussion about the requested change.

Looking ahead
The Editing team will soon add auto-fill features for citations. The Citoid service takes a URL or DOI for a reliable source, and returns a pre-filled, pre-formatted bibliographic citation. After creating it, you will be able to change or add information to the citation, in the same way that you edit any other pre-existing citation in VisualEditor. Support for ISBNs, PMIDs, and other identifiers is planned. Later, editors will be able to contribute to the Citoid service's definitions for each website, to improve precision and reduce the need for manual corrections.

We will need editors to help test the new design of the special character inserter, especially if you speak Welsh, Breton, or another language that uses diacritics or special characters extensively. The new version should be available for testing next week. Please contact User:Whatamidoing (WMF) if you would like to be notified when the new version is available. After the special character tool is completed, VisualEditor will be deployed to all users at Phase 5 Wikipedias. This will affect about 50 mid-size and smaller Wikipedias, including Afrikaans, Azerbaijani, Breton, Kyrgyz, Macedonian, Mongolian, Tatar, and Welsh. The date for this change has not been determined.

Let's work together

 * Share your ideas and ask questions at mw:VisualEditor/Feedback.
 * Please help complete translations of the user guide for users who speak your language.
 * Join the weekly bug triage meetings beginning Wednesday, 11 February 2015 at 12:00 (noon) PST (20:00 UTC). Information about how to join the meeting will be posted at mw:Talk:VisualEditor/Portal shortly before the meeting begins. Contact James F. for more information.
 * Talk to the Editing team during the office hours via IRC. The next session is on Thursday, 19 February 2015 at 19:00 UTC.

Subscribe or unsubscribe at VisualEditor/Newsletter. Translations are available through Meta. Thank you! Whatamidoing (WMF) 20:23, 2 February 2015 (UTC)

Thank link on Recent Changes pages
It would be convenient if there was a Thank link on Recent Changes pages. I would suggest this as an update to the software, or barring that, if there's a user script that adds it, I would use that. I use RC pages a lot for patrolling changes, and having a Thank link there would reduce steps I take to thank other users. Stevie is the man! Talk • Work 15:05, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
 * I think the answer to this is not a technical issue but raher the fact that you should actually view a diff before thanking someone for it. Beeblebrox (talk) 18:39, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
 * And I can from the Recent Changes page. I can hover over the diff to see it. So, it would be nice if I can "thank" from there without additional navigation.  Stevie is the man!  Talk • Work 20:12, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
 * It would be cool if it was made an option in popups when you hover over a diff. Although I suppose if you added everything to popups that was "cool", it would soon become overwhelmed with options. --Floquenbeam (talk) 20:58, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
 * I should clarify that I'm not asking for the 'Thank' link to be in the popup, just on each Recent Changes entry like they appear in each History entry. Stevie is the man!  Talk • Work 23:02, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
 * I think that you should make this suggestion "official" by filing it as a feature request under the Thanks project in Phabricator:. (If you need help, then leave a note on my talk page.)  I can't guarantee that it would get acted on any time soon, but filing it would put your idea in the list for future consideration.  Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 07:17, 3 February 2015 (UTC)

Content not showing subsections
Hi, the contents on the following page is not displaying subsections. I have played around with it and not been able to get it work. Can anyone look at Operation Brevity and see what the problem is? RegardsEnigmaMcmxc (talk) 19:40, 2 February 2015 (UTC)
 * The article includes the template, which hides third-level and lower sections from the table of contents. SiBr4 (talk) 19:48, 2 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Thank you. Never noticed that there.EnigmaMcmxc (talk) 02:51, 3 February 2015 (UTC)

Toggle between default view and customized settings?
I sometimes wish to browse Wikipedia as a new user and see things as they would. On my own account, I have lots of settings configured. Is there a quick way to toggle all personalization off and see things as a new user would, in such a way that I could easily turn my settings back on?  Blue Rasberry  (talk)  21:03, 2 February 2015 (UTC)


 * You would have to log out or use an alternative account with default settings. A few things are different between logged out users and logged in users with default settings. Sock puppetry includes testing. I have User:PrimeHunter2 and User:PrimeHunter3. PrimeHunter (talk) 21:12, 2 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Alternatively, install a second browser on your computer. I have five (Chrome, Firefox, IE, Opera, Safari), and sometimes run two or more simultaneously (all five at once maxes out my PC memory), but I only log in using one at a time. The logged-out browsers (usually Chrome and IE) show me what a good majority of new users will see. For cases when I need to test for a user who is logged-in but with basic settings, I log in as, who with just one edit, isn't even autoconfirmed. -- Red rose64 (talk) 21:27, 2 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Alternatively, open a private/incognito window in your usual browser. Matma Rex talk 22:35, 2 February 2015 (UTC)
 * I use Matma Rex's approach in Firefox (File > New Private Window), but I don't think that's an option on all web browsers. Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 07:40, 3 February 2015 (UTC)
 * "all web browsers" is really not the target here (think Lynx). Privacy mode is supported by _practically_ all the popular browsers - see privacy mode. i doubt there are many wikipedians who feel the need to check the rendering for anons and do not have access to at least one of those. peace - קיפודנחש (aka kipod) (talk) 19:17, 3 February 2015 (UTC)

Edit summary search bug
Letter case affects search results when it shouldn't. Note the differing results for and  even though case-sensitive search is unchecked. Andreas JN 466 12:29, 3 February 2015 (UTC)


 * The tool is made by User:Σ. and  give the same results while  misses all results from section edits but finds all others. So it appears that if "Don't search within /* sections */" is enabled then the search always becomes case sensitive. PrimeHunter (talk) 13:04, 3 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Well spotted. Thanks. Andreas JN 466 14:34, 3 February 2015 (UTC)

Transclusions
I'm looking at two templates - and. can be used on its own in an article. However, it's also an element of.

When I look at "What links here" for, I can see all the articles where the template is being transcluded, but that's regardless of which of the two ways it's being transcluded. It feels like there ought to be a way to identify articles that transclude it directly - that is, the article specifically uses - but for the life of me, I can't figure it out.

Is this possible? Mlaffs (talk) 18:23, 3 February 2015 (UTC)
 * A way to do that is to compare the lists of transclusions of both templates to find out which pages transclude AMQ but not AM station data (easy if you have AWB). That will however not include pages that directly transclude both separately.
 * You can also just search for pages that contain "{{AMQ" in the source code, which WP's new CirrusSearch [//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Search?search=insource:AMQ+insource:/\{\{\s*AMQ/ can do] (a regex is needed to search for the brackets). A probably more accurate method, which uses AWB, is the one I used [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:SiBr4/AWB_Reports&oldid=602861707#Direct_and_indirect_transclusions_.28Method_2.29 here]. SiBr{{sub|4}} (talk) 22:28, 3 February 2015 (UTC)
 * I'm on a Mac, so AWB won't be an option. However, I've bookmarked that search link so I can use it in the future (and for similar cases) - I won't pretend to understand how that was built, but that's the beauty of bookmarks. Thanks! Mlaffs (talk) 23:03, 3 February 2015 (UTC)

Help requested
Over at my talk page - the CRG Int'l threads. We're having a problem getting Legobot to accept his request at CHU. I think I've got rid of a copied |, but Legobot is reading an ASCII 39 code instead of the ' that it wants. I'm getting out of my depth now. Peridon (talk) 20:43, 3 February 2015 (UTC)

Talk pages on Android devices.
I am really confused about talk pages when using Android devices. I am using the wikipedia app, but can't see the normal PC page layout with the talk page tab, except (strangely) on this particular page since I have started a new section by posing this question. Apologies if Im asking a stupid question. In conclusion then, how do I get e.g. Chrome apo or the wikipedia app on Android to display like a PC. 1812ahill (talk) 18:15, 30 January 2015 (UTC)
 * , scroll to the bottom of the page and click the link for "desktop mode". —  18:32, 30 January 2015 (UTC)
 * The Wikipedia app is meant to provide a simpler mobile view of articles. You can get a desktop view on Chrome, however. Visit any article through Chrome and then scroll to the very bottom - you should see a "Desktop" link. Clicking it will make Wikipedia start displaying like they would on a PC. You can switch back to mobile view by scrolling to the bottom again and selected "Mobile view". ~ Super  Hamster  Talk Contribs 18:33, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

I suggest ditching the app and just using your web browser (whether the default of Firefox, etc), which offers a nice mobile-oriented view and has a lot of options that the app is missing. Oiyarbepsy (talk) 05:47, 5 February 2015 (UTC)

Broken layout of Lua module page
I don't understand why Module:TemplatePar has a broken layout (compared to e.g. Module:String or Module:ATA). Maybe because it was imported, not created locally? --Leyo 19:34, 3 February 2015 (UTC)
 * I think the multiline comment at the top has confused something (and check the "Categories: %s" at the bottom!). I would try a simple "--" before each of the introductory comment lines. It's not the import. Johnuniq (talk) 20:55, 3 February 2015 (UTC)
 * It is the import. This is an known import bug, T47750.--Snaevar (talk) 22:58, 3 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Fixed. Jackmcbarn (talk) 23:24, 3 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Thank you. --Leyo 10:11, 4 February 2015 (UTC)

Vandalism showing up in Android app, but not the article itself
On the Wikipedia mobile app (Android), viewing the Tom Brady article brings up this (not my image); see the image caption, right below the page title. It's been like this for a couple days I believe, though the article doesn't contain the vandalism anywhere as far as I can tell - and I can't find any recent edits that inserted the text, either. Anyone know what's going on? Caching problem? Is the vandalism transcluded from elsewhere? ~ Super  Hamster  Talk Contribs 21:31, 3 February 2015 (UTC)
 * I've just [//www.wikidata.org/w/index.php?title=Q313381&diff=193305895&oldid=192050834 fixed] some vandalism at Wikidata. Oh dear... -- John of Reading (talk) 21:53, 3 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Ouch, that was long lived. Thank you! ~ Super  Hamster  Talk Contribs 22:16, 3 February 2015 (UTC)
 * There's discussion about it on Wikidata here and here. It looks as if the Wikidata admins are not yet on top of the problem. -- John of Reading (talk) 07:15, 4 February 2015 (UTC)

Category:Category:Pages with script errors
For some reason, a number of pages are getting populated into Category:Category:Pages with script errors. I'm not sure what is causing (or just caused) the double category problem. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 23:10, 3 February 2015 (UTC)
 * It looks like it was a transient issue. They're all gone now. Jackmcbarn (talk) 23:22, 3 February 2015 (UTC)
 * That they are. Well then I have nothing to add. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 08:47, 5 February 2015 (UTC)

Bare url tool fix
Hi,

I just installed /* User:Zhaofeng Li/Reflinks.js */ importScript( 'User:Zhaofeng Li/Reflinks.js' );// Backlink: User:Zhaofeng Li/Reflinks.js over my user page: User:Mr RD/common.js However I'm not sure how do I use it? Please help me here. Does it work like Twinkle or Proveit? Or is there something else I must do? Thanks.  Mr RD   09:51, 5 February 2015 (UTC)
 * It should add a link labeled "Reflinks" in the Tools sidebar on the left. Clicking it will run the tool against the current page. Zhaofeng Li [ talk... contribs... ] 10:14, 5 February 2015 (UTC)
 * , got it. Thank you. Nice tool you made there. Keep up the good work.  Mr RD   10:23, 5 February 2015 (UTC)

Bytes per article
Am I in the right place to ask, why the "Bytes per article" statistics had not been refreshed for the last 12 months and why there is no update for the EnWiki stats for more than 5 years? Is there a chance that the stats will be updated in the near future? Gyurika (talk) 11:56, 5 February 2015 (UTC)

restore IPA symbols that have been removed from editing window
The editing window has been revamped, and tone letters have been removed from the IPA (under 'special characters'). Perhaps others as well. Could someone restore them? There are also lots of useless entries, such as : If someone really needs a syllabic bilabial trill (and it's likely that in the entire history of WP no-one ever has), then it can be entered with two keystrokes. — kwami (talk) 22:21, 30 January 2015 (UTC)
 * See Help:CharInsert. --  Gadget850talk 22:28, 30 January 2015 (UTC)
 * presuming you use monobook, i think the problem is in User:Kwamikagami/monobook.js. some time ago, the script loading logic was somewhat changed, and now, if there is an error in your personal scripts, some of the system's gadgets and scripts will not load. your personal monobook script has a problem (it contains a line that was probably meant for your personal css file rather than your personal js file).
 * the problematic line is . my guess is that simply removing this line, will resurrect the functionality you lost. peace - קיפודנחש (aka kipod) (talk) 23:16, 30 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Tested: It completely kills CharInsert for me. Documented at Help:CharInsert. The JS page now warns of errors on save. --  Gadget850talk 23:59, 30 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks! That restored CharInsert under the edit window.  The one over the edit window is still missing tone in the IPA, but as long as people have access to both, it shouldn't matter.  — kwami (talk) 03:13, 31 January 2015 (UTC)

Per MediaWiki:Gadgets-definition, the CharInsert gadget depends on the 'user' module. If executing the user module fails (because of incorrect syntax), then the dependency will not be fulfilled, and CharInsert will therefore not be loaded. If this behavior is not desired, you shouldn't depend on the 'user' module. Matma Rex talk 12:42, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
 * i do not remember (and can not verify) that syntax error in personal common.js causes mediawilki.user to fail loading. actually, a 2-minutes experiment did not confirm that this behavior exists today. is this something new? peace - קיפודנחש (aka kipod) (talk) 19:22, 2 February 2015 (UTC)
 * for me, the "IPA" section under "special characters" from the toolbar has 226 different characters. are you sure it had more than that in the past? i do not use IPA characters, so i can't say it never did, but i find it highly unlikely. how many characters do *you* see under IPA in the toolbar? is it possible you missed the little scrollbar on the right? peace - קיפודנחש (aka kipod) (talk) 20:45, 2 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Because the bottom edit window had disappeared, and a new one appeared at top, I thought it had been moved. But I was wrong:  with the fix mentioned above, my browser now displayed both.  The one on top has a bunch of pre-composed charater+diacritic entries, the one on bottom has tone.  — kwami (talk) 23:42, 2 February 2015 (UTC)
 * again, i do not know much about IPA, but the one on top has 226 symbols. the charinsert one (the one on bottom) has 163. there's a second one called "IPA English" with thirty-odd symbols, but both of these groups combined contain less symbols than the one in the top toolbar, so i'm not sure what you mean when you talk about "tone"... peace - קיפודנחש (aka kipod) (talk) 18:42, 3 February 2015 (UTC)


 * The general IPA at bottom is complete. The tone letters are .  The English one is a subset for our conventions on WP.  The one on top adds a bunch of precomposed combinations.  — kwami (talk) 18:47, 3 February 2015 (UTC)
 * again, i know nothing about IPA, but if i understood what you just said, the one at the top is missing some characters it would have. can you please fill in a bug report? can be used directly with your wikipedia account (i think), so it should be pretty straightforward. just create a new task (click "+" in top toolbar) named something like "Edit toolbar: Special characters (IPA) missing symbols", and list all the missing ones in "description". thx. peace - קיפודנחש (aka kipod) (talk) 19:37, 3 February 2015 (UTC)

The top window is missing the following IPA symbols: ⱱ ᶣ ᵊ ˕˔ ˥ ˦ ˧ ˨ ˩ ꜛ ꜜ ↗ ↘

and the diacritics on the following: k̚ s̺ s̻ θ̼ s̬ n̥ ŋ̊ a̤ a̰ β̞ r̝ e̘ e̙ u̟ i̠ ɪ̈ e̽ ɔ̹ ɔ̜ ə̆ z̴ ə̋ ə́ ə̄ ə̀ ə̏ ə̌ ə̂ ə᷄ ə᷅ ə᷇ ə᷆ ə᷈ ə᷉ t͜ɬ k͈ s͎

— kwami (talk) 22:15, 3 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the list. I've filed the request in Phabricator.  Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 01:21, 6 February 2015 (UTC)

Code colouring
Wiki editing needs code colouring. Code colouring is a feature of code editing programs, such as XCode in Mac or Notepad++ in Windows, where the various elements are not displayed as black but different colours. It would be really handy, especially if the citations within ≤ref≥ were greyed as a comment as references were worst offenders in terms of legibility. (Yes, I just wanted to put my anger out there. I do not wish to join a technical steering committee, or vote argumentatively or place a counter proposal rich in WP links to push it forth… I'll go back to my science nest now) --Squidonius (talk) 20:17, 3 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Actually, there is a gadget for that. Special:Preferences in the section "Editing" find Syntax highlighter, make syntax stand out colorfully. Then you can try out wikied (the same gadget page section "Editing" wikEd, a full-featured integrated text editor for Firefox, Safari, and Google Chrome). I haven't tested them myself, but you can at least try. Maybe it will help you :) -- Edgars2007  (talk/contribs) 20:43, 3 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks ever so much! You've just made my procrastination fun again! --Squidonius (talk) 21:06, 3 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Squidonius, you might also consider trying VisualEditor (opt-in via Beta Features in Special:Preferences). Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 01:28, 6 February 2015 (UTC)

Page not found by Google
Google doesn't seem to know about British Plant Gall Society, even when searching for "British Plant Gall Society Wikipedia". Any ideas why not, or how to fix this? Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 23:55, 4 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Interestingly, if you add "wiki" you get a version found on a wiki re-publish site, not this one! I think the reason is that the content is too short and redundant with the pages it links to. Google sees this as a "link-to" page and thus rates those other pages higher. But knowing for sure... ain't gonna happen. Maury Markowitz (talk) 00:31, 5 February 2015 (UTC)
 * No, it's not that it rates those other ones higher; Google does not even index this page. Alakzi (talk) 00:40, 5 February 2015 (UTC)
 * It turned up as the first result in https://www.google.com/search?q=British+Plant+Gall+Society+wikipedia for me. Perhaps it's something to do with the URL you used? — <span style="color: #194D00; font-family: Palatino, Times, serif">Mr. Stradivarius  ♪ talk ♪ 02:21, 5 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Gall is the first result for me and British Plant Gall Society is nowhere. It's also missing from which finds many other pages with mentions. The opening sentence of the article has been stable but  only finds a bunch of mirrors. PrimeHunter (talk) 03:31, 5 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Are the people who aren't seeing this on Google all based in Europe, by any chance? Perhaps the article has fallen victim to a right to be forgotten request. (Although if that's the case, I have absolutely no idea what could possibly need to be forgotten from it.) — <span style="color: #194D00; font-family: Palatino, Times, serif">Mr. Stradivarius  ♪ talk ♪ 03:40, 5 February 2015 (UTC)
 * I'm in Florida and it's the seventh entry on . --NE2 03:48, 5 February 2015 (UTC)
 * I'm in the UK, nothing to do with EU. Get the WP article as the first result. Maybe some weird software bug at googles end, reminds me of when the search doesn't work on WP properly. --<span style="font-family:'Segoe Script',cursive; color:blue;">Mrjulesd  <span style="font-family:'Segoe Script',cursive; color:orange;">(talk)  03:55, 5 February 2015 (UTC)
 * I'm in Denmark. The article is now showing up in all the searches where it was missing before. PrimeHunter (talk) 04:32, 5 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Saying "Google" is imprecise, because Google has several front-end URLs; besides the international https://www.google.com/ the country-specific URL http://www.google.co.uk/ also exists, and its rankings differ. Three posters above (,, and ) indicate the URLs that they used, and all three were www.google.com; so those people who don't get a satisfactory search, like , , - which URL were you using? -- Red rose64 (talk) 10:11, 5 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 10:14, 5 February 2015 (UTC)
 * .com. I've also tried .co.uk. and .co.jp. Alakzi (talk) 11:21, 5 February 2015 (UTC)
 * I clicked the given google.com links but were redirected to a longer google.dk url. For example, https://www.google.com/search?q=British+Plant+Gall+Society+wikipedia leads me to https://www.google.dk/search?q=British+Plant+Gall+Society+wikipedia&gws_rd=cr&ei=n1_TVJyuGo3TaMOOgIgJ, but the  parameter is different each time. It currently varies which searches include the article. It's included in https://www.google.dk/search?q=British+Plant+Gall+Society+wikipedia&gws_rd=cr&ei=n1_TVJyuGo3TaMOOgIgJ but if I manually change the url to https://www.google.com/search?q=British+Plant+Gall+Society+wikipedia&gws_rd=cr&ei=n1_TVJyuGo3TaMOOgIgJ then I stay at google.com and it's not included. It's apparently   which prevents the redirect, and   makes no difference. PrimeHunter (talk) 12:32, 5 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Well the  seems to bring up a question about whether cookies from google are acceptable, on my system (EU law inspired check), at least some of the time. While gws_rd=ssl brings up a scholarly search result.
 * I'm pretty sure it's a google issue. Why? Because it doesn't seem consistent, sometimes search terms such as "British Plant Gall Society" site:en.wikipedia.org work to bring up the article, but at other times they don't. It certainly seems that google search brings up sub-optimal results on occasions, the most likely explanation being some degree of bugginess.
 * One factor might be all this domain shifting, e.g. .dk and .co.uk and .com. Now google always checks you geographical location, as you get country specific doodles even if you change the url from .co.uk to .com. Yes many google doodles are localised, but they pretend this is not so, bringing up the same result whatever the url. So basically the url does not give the full picture of the search operation, they also employ location checking algorithms, and possibly cookie related checks etc.. So the same url in two countries may not bring up the same result even if they are identical, and that is through design. --<span style="font-family:'Segoe Script',cursive; color:blue;">Mrjulesd <span style="font-family:'Segoe Script',cursive; color:orange;">(talk)  13:31, 5 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Andy's link works for me. The article is the first one in the list.  (I'm in the US.)  Andy, did you try WP:BYPASSing your cache?  Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 01:35, 6 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Yes. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 13:54, 6 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Interestingly, having tried the link I gave above again I now see BPGS (which is a redirect) as the first result (using the same machine, still logged in to Google, but on a different IP address). Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 13:56, 6 February 2015 (UTC)

Formatting the escape character
What is the suggested way for displaying a escape sequence? I need to illustrate the use of VT55 codes like the string ESCape H ESCape J. I'd like to do it so it is clear that those are escapes and not the three letters ESC, without inserting any whitespace or other formatting that might confuse matters. ESCHESCJ just isn't good enough, and ESC H ESC J is potentially confusing considering that the space is a common value character in VT55 strings. Suggestions? Maury Markowitz (talk) 13:30, 5 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Could you use ␛H␛J or maybe HJ ? Neither are ideal, but they're the best I can think off. Martijn Hoekstra (talk) 13:46, 5 February 2015 (UTC)
 * The H and J are not obvious. Try or with commas ,,, - don't use  because that implies that you need to press the keys together. -- Red rose64 (talk) 13:51, 5 February 2015 (UTC)
 * RedRose, as always, nails it. Maury Markowitz (talk) 15:13, 5 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Martin, what is that character in the first example? I think that's the solution I'm looking for, but I'm not sure how to generate it. Maury Markowitz (talk) 15:12, 5 February 2015 (UTC)
 * For me, the easiest way to generate anything that's not on my keyboard is by copy-paste. The downside of the first solution is that I find it very very hard to read. It's codepoint U+241B, which is in the Control Pictures block if that is any help. Martijn Hoekstra (talk) 15:26, 5 February 2015 (UTC)
 * It's called U+241B "Symbol for Escape" which you can type as  and looks like this &#x241B; -- Red rose64 (talk) 15:28, 5 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Of course, it should be pointed out that when a DEC terminal (like a VT55) is sent an escape sequence, the "escape" that must be used is the U+001B "Escape" character itself, not a graphical representation of it. -- Red rose64 (talk) 15:33, 5 February 2015 (UTC)
 * I'm afraid there are no turtles all the way down, and without a clarification any representation of a control character will always be ambiguous. With the VT55 pre-dating unicode by over 15 years, I think the clarification may be omitted without any loss of understanding for the reader (but you still may want to provide reading glasses with any article where you intend to use ␛H␛J ) Martijn Hoekstra (talk) 15:47, 5 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Martijn, does not look like a good "way for displaying a escape sequence" (OP). -DePiep (talk) 16:13, 5 February 2015 (UTC)
 * It doesn't look like a particularly good way for displaying an escape sequence to me either. Why would you suggest that? Martijn Hoekstra (talk) 16:20, 5 February 2015 (UTC)
 * That was incomplete of me. I mean to say that the letter sequence in your prelast post does not say that "esc" is a single character. The "keys" do so. (Still trying to understand whether you meant that old VT55 then is better than Unicode representation). btw I think Maury Markowitz already used the answer(s). -DePiep (talk) 19:08, 5 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Which one? I guess one can argue about semantics (what is a character?) but for most definitions, ␛ definitely is a single character. The keys template on the other hand doesn't say anything about single characters, but about keypresses. I'm not sure about the details, but for a fairly dumb terminal like the VT55, the two are likely completely interchangable. And no, I'm not saying that the old VT55 is better than Unicode representation (that would be silly), I'm saying very few would think in the context of a VT55 that when showing ␛ in an escape sequence would mean you need to enter ␛ rather than the escape character for which ␛ is a visual representation, because the VT55 predates the ␛ character in Unicode. Martijn Hoekstra (talk) 19:37, 5 February 2015 (UTC)


 * ,, , and I'll be happy to finish the template when I get out of UNIX class. —   20:16, 5 February 2015 (UTC)

Contributions link at the top of articles is an outdated link
The contributions link that appears at the top of pages goes to this page which HTTP-redirects to this page which doesn't give the stats on the article until the user manually types it it. Oiyarbepsy (talk) 15:54, 5 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Eh? For me, the link is contributions. -- Red rose64 (talk) 16:06, 5 February 2015 (UTC)
 * That's not what I'm talking about. Some of our pages have a "contributors" link at the top, just to the right of "From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia", such as Rheumatoid arthritis. Oiyarbepsy (talk) 16:42, 5 February 2015 (UTC)
 * I don't see any such link on Monobook, but it is in Category:Articles with contributors link. Template:Infobox disease is adding that category, but I still don't see where the link comes from (or why it's not displaying for me). I used to be better at this. Thanks, Lua! --NE2 16:56, 5 February 2015 (UTC)
 * I also don't see a link at Rheumatoid arthritis using MonoBook; but now that you mention some of its characteristics (exact position, not on all articles, example being that of a disease), I recall Village pump (proposals)/Archive 113 which spilled onto other pages, such as this discussion from a few months ago, User talk:TheDJ/Archive 10 and MediaWiki talk:Gadgets-definition. I think that the page to fix is MediaWiki:Gadget-ContributorsHack.js, and the gadget was put together by . Note that contributors ≠ contributions. -- Red rose64 (talk) 17:07, 5 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Can you add an explanation to Category:Articles with contributors link? --NE2 17:50, 5 February 2015 (UTC)
 * How's ? -- Red rose64 (talk) 19:40, 5 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks. --NE2 19:41, 5 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Not directly related to 's redirect issue, but I'll note that is working on getting the "login" feature working and -articleinfo may be down at various times during the day if it works at all until he is done. I suppose I'll start an internal discussion about how we let the community when there are going to be known/expected outages and how we report unexpected outages that may take awhile to fix to the community. I don't think the current way it is being dealt with is very good or appropriate <s style="font-size: smaller;">&lt;badhumor> and we need to set a much better example for the foundation to follow about communicating with communities about changes and outages &lt;/badhumor> . —   18:04, 5 February 2015 (UTC)

503 Service Unavailable
I just had a "503 Service Unavailable" for about 30 minutes across all Wikimedia sites, from approximately 17:20 until 17:50 UTC. Did anyone else have similar problems? And what could have been the cause for so long? Jared Preston (talk) 17:55, 5 February 2015 (UTC)
 * I did as well --209.224.239.164 17:56, 5 February 2015 (UTC)
 * I've just noticed on Special:RecentChanges that there was less than 20 edits here from 17:12 until 17:47 UTC... Jared Preston (talk) 17:59, 5 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Know issue, and has been resolved. Thanks for your report. —   18:04, 5 February 2015 (UTC)


 * I don't know about that, but Wikipedia has been odd all morning. My Hedonil XTool at the top of articles has been there, then not there, then it redirected to WMF saying there was no internet service, then back and forth.  Since then, I've been offline for a while.  My clock was gone when I booted back up.  After about 15 minutes, the clock reappeared. The Heconil XTool, however, very slowly redirects to a page history site at Labs, where there is nothing on the page except a blank to input an article name.  Except...when I input the article and click on Submit, the article name disappears and nothing else happens. — Maile  (talk) 18:12, 5 February 2015 (UTC)
 * , please see directly above this section.  -articleinfo is down for the day for maintenance. —   18:28, 5 February 2015 (UTC)
 * OK, thanks. — Maile (talk) 18:32, 5 February 2015 (UTC)


 * By convention, we blame Steven Walling for such outages. Due to changed circumstances, I'm not particularly sure if that is still the correct response. If it isn't, I suggest we blame Ironholds. (Sillyness aside, I guess a report is forthcoming. There will probably be notification on the wikitech mailinglist of a post-mortem, and I suppose there will be something in the technology report of the next signpost) Martijn Hoekstra (talk) 18:53, 5 February 2015 (UTC)
 * , when I asked on IRC I was told it was the same gopher that caused the last 'big' outage. Hopefully they catch that bugger soon. —   19:13, 5 February 2015 (UTC)
 * More details are available in the incident report on wikitech. Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 01:41, 6 February 2015 (UTC)

Strange
Just a few minutes ago, I was having trouble logging in. Whenever I tried to (on any WMF site), I got a message that said the login token was expired/invalid, or something like that. Obviously, I finally succeeded, but I'm just curious if anyone else had the same problem. -- Biblio worm  18:06, 5 February 2015 (UTC)
 * I suspect a widespread server issue. For over 30 minutes from 17:20 (UTC) all Wikimedia sites (incl. English Wikipedia,, , were throwing a HTTP 503 error. -- Red rose64 (talk) 18:08, 5 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Yes.  Tide  rolls  18:09, 5 February 2015 (UTC)
 * When I logged in it gave me the same message but it still logged me in. -- GB fan 18:10, 5 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Likewise for me. It started as the problem described just above at, and then the login problem seemed to happen as the site was starting to come back up, but not yet all the way back up. --Tryptofish (talk) 18:21, 5 February 2015 (UTC)

Rangeblock calculator down
The rangeblock calculator linked from the bottom of mw:Help:Range blocks returns "No webservice". Digging in the archives, I found a link to this one, which works, but is there any word on the wmflabs one? JohnCD (talk) 19:04, 5 February 2015 (UTC)
 * , I'm guessing the outage killed the webservice and or  will have to restart it. —   19:17, 5 February 2015 (UTC)
 * I started a module to calculate IPv4 ranges when I saw a report about this problem a few weeks ago, but when I mentioned it at Template talk:Blockcalc some much better tools were mentioned. Johnuniq (talk) 21:18, 5 February 2015 (UTC)
 * I restarted the webservice, it should work now. --Prolineserver (talk) 12:57, 6 February 2015 (UTC)

Xtools
does not actually show the stats when you put in a username: you put in the username and it goes back to the username selecting screen. Tried with various usernames to make sure it is not the result of a bad character or something.  Konveyor   Belt   00:56, 6 February 2015 (UTC)
 * has been working on getting the login feature to work. I've been unable to reach him for a status update, but will report back here as soon as I have. —   01:04, 6 February 2015 (UTC)
 * I had this happen just after the power outage but it worked when I tried it a few minutes ago. MarnetteD&#124;Talk 06:57, 6 February 2015 (UTC)

Random "Status read failed: Connection reset by peer" errors while using the API
I have a bot which mostly operates on Hebrew Wikisource. Recently it stopped to work because of random "connection reset by peer" errors. I checked that this error also happens when I try to use the bot in English Wikipedia. I reported the error on Phabricator but they said it probably does not belong there. Can you please tell me, where can I report this bug? --Erel Segal (talk) 06:52, 6 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Does the problem also happen when you use a different internet provider? --AKlapper (WMF) (talk) 12:36, 6 February 2015 (UTC)

VisualEditor on Wikipedia namespace pages
Can someone enable VE on these pages? It is difficult to edit things like WP:SCREENSHOT and VE would be very appreciated. --RezonansowyakaRezy (talk | contribs) 13:01, 3 February 2015 (UTC)
 *  --RezonansowyakaRezy (talk | contribs) 14:26, 4 February 2015 (UTC)
 * VisualEditor can be enabled on additional namespaces only via a configuration change. Please file a request on Phabricator (guide: Requesting wiki configuration changes), preferably after gathering community support at WP:VPR, as the community of this wiki has proven unreceptive to usability improvements in the past. :) Matma Rex talk 21:09, 4 February 2015 (UTC)
 * The main concern is that VisualEditor cannot sign comments, and many pages in the Wikipedia: namespace (like this one) are discussions. This might confuse editors, especially inexperienced ones.
 * As a workaround, you can copy any page into your userspace, make the changes in VisualEditor, and then transfer the contents back to the correct location afterwards. Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 01:26, 6 February 2015 (UTC)
 * I assume it is possible to make a blacklist of page titles which are used for discussion, and enable the Visual Editor on Wikipedia namespace pages which are not in the list (or which do not match regexes in the list, if we need to deal with subpages). Helder 17:07, 6 February 2015 (UTC)
 * It might be possible to create that capability, but currently a per-page blacklist is not possible. Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 18:26, 6 February 2015 (UTC)

Rollback issues
Hello. I often use Twinkle to rollback some edits but the last couple of months the action cannot get completed. I didn't have this issue in the past, only the last couple of months. I thought it might "go away" and gets solve by itself but the issue still exists. I don't know if I did something that caused this. Any help would be useful. In more details; when I click "OK" after I write the summary for the rollback, the action stops at: "Grabbing data of earlier revisions: revision .... Info: Opening user talk page edit form for user ...." I even waited for minutes in case that it just needed more time to complete the action but nothing happens. Any idea why is this happening and how can I fix it? Thank you TeamGale (talk) 16:47, 3 February 2015 (UTC)
 * What is in the browser console? Ruslik_ Zero 19:56, 3 February 2015 (UTC)
 * I am sorry, I forgot to add it. Firefox 35.0.1 W8 TeamGale (talk) 07:36, 4 February 2015 (UTC)
 * See https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Tools/Web_Console how to get debug information. --AKlapper (WMF) (talk) 23:05, 4 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I'll take a look and I hope I'll get something out of it because I am not really good with technical things. If there is something simpler it is welcome. Thanks again. TeamGale (talk) 21:53, 6 February 2015 (UTC)

Module Citation Style 1 not accepting the 2015 format for arXiv identifiers
Module:Citation/CS1 is borked. It's been that way for a while now. There doesn't seem to be any updates appearing in the talk pages. Can someone fix this? emits error messages onto user talk pages when it encounters perfectly valid arXiv IDs in citation templates that our citation module does not recognize, which may discourage editors from contributing, since they are valid identifiers, but are not being accepted and they receive warnings for doing perfectly valid edits.

ie. CITE JOURNAL

this is perfectly valid, and exists at http://arxiv.org/abs/1501.01375

-- 70.51.200.101 (talk) 23:25, 4 February 2015 (UTC)

Hello, I'm ReferenceBot. I have automatically detected that an edit performed by you may have introduced errors in referencing. as follows: Please check this page and fix the errors highlighted. If you think this is a false positive, you can [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?action=edit&preload=User:A930913/RBpreload&editintro=User:A930913/RBeditintro&minor=&title=User_talk:A930913&preloadtitle=ReferenceBot%20–%20&section=new report it to my operator]. Thanks, ReferenceBot (talk) 00:20, 5 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Reference Errors on 4 February
 * On the Wikipedia:Village pump (technical) page, [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=645673155 your edit] caused an arXiv error (help) . ([ Fix] | [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Help_desk&action=edit&section=new&preload=User:ReferenceBot/helpform&preloadtitle=Referencing%20errors%20on%20%5B%5BSpecial%3ADiff%2F645673155%7CWikipedia:Village pump (technical)%5D%5D Ask for help])


 * You mention Module:Citation/CS1; its talk page has a discussion on the matter at Module talk:Citation/CS1/Archive 11. There are also threads at Help talk:Citation Style 1 and in the archives of this page. -- Red rose64 (talk) 23:34, 4 February 2015 (UTC)


 * There's been no update on any of those threads in weeks, meanwhile, ReferenceBot is still throwing these incorrect error warnings. -- 70.51.200.101 (talk) 06:17, 5 February 2015 (UTC)

So anyone know when (if) this will be fixed? As I said before, there's been no status updates for weeks. The error has been known for over a month, and more and more material is published on arXiv all the time since the start of 2015, which will result in more and more Wikipedia articles carrying error messages, and more and more editors receiving incorrect error warnings from ReferenceBot, possibly discouraging editors from participating, as they may never understand why they are being warned, and thus just quit. This should be a serious editor retention issue. -- 70.51.200.101 (talk) 23:09, 7 February 2015 (UTC)

Praise be to FRAC
I wish I knew about this earlier. To whomever wrote this, thank you!. Maury Markowitz (talk) 00:28, 5 February 2015 (UTC)
 * What's FRAC? — <span style="color: #194D00; font-family: Palatino, Times, serif">Mr. Stradivarius  ♪ talk ♪ 02:25, 5 February 2015 (UTC)
 * $2/7$. It is my new god. Maury Markowitz (talk) 03:19, 5 February 2015 (UTC)
 * So you don't have to hit "edit source" like I did, he's talking about frac Oiyarbepsy (talk) 05:33, 5 February 2015 (UTC)
 * I had to edit to figure out how you did that! Maury Markowitz (talk) 11:49, 5 February 2015 (UTC)
 * So everyone gets to know about a new template! I didn't know about frac, but love it.   You might also like tlx and para if you liked 's use of tl. – Philosopher Let us reason together. 21:55, 6 February 2015 (UTC)

Wrong message trying to rv a Move


In short: a Move is listed in page History. Clicking its "undo" link gives an incorrect 'done' message. -DePiep (talk) 13:28, 5 February 2015 (UTC) I tried to revert an undesired move. In the page's history,, the Move shows (10:55 today) and I clicked its "undo" link. I then got an edit screen, with a red message in top: "The edit appears to have already been undone." So all fine I thought, and I left the page without saving anything. However, afterwards it appears that the Move was not undone. So the message is incorrect. I think that should be corrected. I did not try to save that edit screen (because, what would that do?). (Note: I requested the reversal at WP:RM by now, but that is not the issue). -DePiep (talk) 12:16, 5 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Interesting. Moving a page leaves a "pseudo edit" with only an edit summary of the move. The move itself isn't recorded as an edit. The undo link attempts to undo the pseudo-edit, but not the move itself, and results in the - broken - behavior you describe, presumably because the undo option finds that the previous revision is identical to the current revision, it thinks that the edit can't be reverted, and displays the unhelpful message. To fix the problem itself; you should be able to move the page back over the redirect yourself, as long as there are no new revisions on the redirect the move created. As for the behaviour of the undo link, I'll file a bug for that. Martijn Hoekstra (talk) 12:29, 5 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Your T88680 is a duplicate of T6433. PrimeHunter (talk) 12:43, 5 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Hot damn you're fast. Martijn Hoekstra (talk) 12:45, 5 February 2015 (UTC)
 * See also Village pump (technical)/Archive 131. -- Red rose64 (talk) 13:03, 5 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Why not change the message text right away? -DePiep (talk) 16:05, 5 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Because the message text "" has no way of knowing that you are trying to undo a page move. You get exactly the same message if you try to undo a normal edit that was already undone, such as . Somehow, the software needs changing so that it can distinguish a move from a normal edit. -- Red rose64 (talk) 16:28, 5 February 2015 (UTC)
 * I can understand that. Then, is it not an easier solution to make software detect such a "null record" and report accordingly? At least, that does not involve any change to the page(s) to take care of. A different bug maybe. -DePiep (talk) 19:04, 5 February 2015 (UTC)
 * There's nothing that we can do here. It's for the devs to fix, which means a feature request on phabricator; you could try commenting on the ticket noted above (T6433). -- Red rose64 (talk) 20:05, 5 February 2015 (UTC)
 * "There's nothing that we can do here". I knew, before. Something hope tells me some dev reads this page. I'll have to make that wikizilla account to communicate. -DePiep (talk) 22:05, 6 February 2015 (UTC)

closed. -DePiep (talk) 22:05, 6 February 2015 (UTC)
 * You don't need to make a "wikizilla" account - or any other kind of account. Phabricator uses your existing Wikipedia login. -- Red rose64 (talk) 23:12, 6 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Aha, bugzilla has been replaced. Nice. -DePiep (talk) 10:12, 7 February 2015 (UTC)

Security warning
I get a security warning: Do you want to view only the webpage content that was delivered securely?

I have not had that before on wiki. Is it something with wiki, or is it me?

HandsomeFella (talk) 06:36, 6 February 2015 (UTC)


 * It's a combination of your browser, and it being sent a mix of HTTPS and HTTP content. What URL did it occur on? --Tagishsimon (talk) 06:38, 6 February 2015 (UTC)


 * It occurs once on every page, every time I access it. For instance now, that I edit this page. HandsomeFella (talk) 06:54, 6 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Which specific browser and browser version is this about? --AKlapper (WMF) (talk) 12:35, 6 February 2015 (UTC)


 * IE 8.0.7601.17514. I must add that this started recently (today). Hasn't been there before. I have also noted that on my watchlist, it only occurs when there's an item that is not marked as visited. Could it be that something with the "bold bullet point" has been changed? It unbolds when you mark all pages visited, and then it doesn't occur again until another page on my watchlist is updated. On the other hand, it occurs every time I preview an edit. HandsomeFella (talk) 16:30, 6 February 2015 (UTC)

Infoboxes not correct when using the MonoBook appearance
Infoboxes (and perhaps a few more things) don't show up correctly when using MonoBook as the preferred style here on Wikipedia. Infoboxes show up correctly when Vector, Modern or Cologne Blue is selected. - Takeaway (talk) 20:54, 6 February 2015 (UTC)
 * In what way "not correct" (a screenshot may help)? What's your browser/ OS? Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 21:00, 6 February 2015 (UTC)
 * The infobox on Sergio Mattarella looks just fine to me when using Monobook, so I suspect that it may be your computer causing the issue. Hmm... In addition to Andy's question about browser/OS, which particular kind(s) of infoboxes are causing problems?  Not all of them use the same base template.  – Philosopher Let us reason together. 21:48, 6 February 2015 (UTC)
 * 2015 0206 WP Infobox glitch Windows 7 Chrome browser Monobook.jpg When using Chrome on my laptop running Windows 7, and WP appearance set to MonoBook, infoboxes (all of them as far as I can see) show up incorrectly as in the image on the right. I have no problem seeing the infoboxes displayed correctly when I use Internet Explorer on my computer. They also show up fine with Chrome on Android devices (4.4 and 5.0). - 22:25, 6 February 2015 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Takeaway (talk • contribs)
 * This may be a hangover from yesterday's outage. Your browser might have retrieved a corrupt CSS file so that not all of the styling is correct, and then cached it so that it affects all pages. Try a WP:BYPASS. -- Red rose64 (talk) 23:18, 6 February 2015 (UTC)
 * And also try clearing your cache... Chrome has a tendency to corrupt pages when its cache is full.  23:31, 6 February 2015 (UTC)
 * I had just cleaned the cache a few days ago but forgot that that might help after yesterday's outage. Thank you very much! CTRL+F5 did the trick! - Takeaway (talk) 23:38, 6 February 2015 (UTC)
 * As an aside, I appreciate that no one came running to say that Monobook is not supported, etc. <3 Monobook. Killiondude (talk) 23:56, 6 February 2015 (UTC)

XTools
I was checking random data about my account, and I clicked XTools editcounter. It shows strange data. It shows my first edit to be in year 2099, and total edits to be zero. I have more than 4.5k edits now. It occurred now, check sign data.  Ethically  Yours! 10:17, 7 February 2015 (UTC)
 * It has been as of now, so archiving it myself.  Ethically  Yours! 07:11, 8 February 2015 (UTC)

Small text at Special:BookSources
I use MonoBook skin. If I click on an ISBN link, like ISBN 0-86067-103-8 or ISBN 1-871944-17-1 I get to the normal BookSources page - except that the menus in the top and left margins are something like 80% of normal size. I've checked zoom level (which was unlikely to be the problem, since the main text on the page is normal size), and cleared caches; I also get the same problem in Firefox, Opera and IE 8, and happens whether logged in or out. The problem only occurs in MonoBook (to view in MonoBook when logged out, visit [//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:BookSources/0860671038?useskin=monobook this link]); and it doesn't happen when visiting Special:BookSources directly - but if I enter a ten- or thirteen-digit number into that ISBN box (it doesn't matter whether I enter a valid ISBN or not) and click, the problem appears. Has anybody been altering CSS files? -- Red rose64 (talk) 20:49, 7 February 2015 (UTC)
 * I see it too. It appears that Special:BookSources is somewhere providing unbalanced HTML which is causing to get put outside . Unfortunately the uselang=qqx trick doesn't seem to work on that page, so I can't easily see what messages might need looking at. Anomie⚔ 12:02, 8 February 2015 (UTC)
 * It uses Book sources. PrimeHunter (talk) 12:27, 8 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Book sources transcludes The Wikipedia Library/Navbox. [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:The_Wikipedia_Library/Navbox&diff=646193057&oldid=646189972] fixed it by moving  where it belongs. PrimeHunter (talk) 14:46, 8 February 2015 (UTC)

Wiki page typography
About typography and whitespace, I raised a question at&about #infobox, top alignments. -DePiep (talk) 19:13, 8 February 2015 (UTC)

Visible markup on category pages
Category pages are now showing visible markup <a ></a> immediately before the section heading 'Pages in category "..."'. This comes from MediaWiki:Category header, which hasn't changed in over eight years. Do other people see the problem? If so, it must be a recent bug in the MediaWiki software, since it wasn't doing that this morning. -- Red rose64 (talk) 20:59, 5 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Yes, it looks like the HTML is being escaped now. Alakzi (talk) 21:03, 5 February 2015 (UTC)
 * I see it too. HandsomeFella (talk) 21:09, 5 February 2015 (UTC)
 * But is not whitelisted through  so it should always show. Deleting the page would return it to the default  .  --   Gadget850talk 21:10, 5 February 2015 (UTC)
 * The real question is why it never showed before? --  Gadget850talk 21:25, 5 February 2015 (UTC)
 * There are several pages in MediaWiki space that contain HTML elements that are not whitelisted, including <a ></a>. The markup doesn't show up (normally). -- Red rose64 (talk) 23:34, 5 February 2015 (UTC)
 * I'm guessing that was added for a specific gadget or JavaScript. It's from far before my time here, does anyone know why it was added exactly or what script makes use of it? I'm guessing it is used as a marker or container for such a script to add something to the page.  I'm guessing it was never seen before because the script hid it or it was ignored since it is an empty link element.  —   21:14, 5 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Pinging as the editor that added it. —   21:16, 5 February 2015 (UTC)
 * It is valid HTML to leave the <a ></a> element empty, provided that it has a  attribute. This attribute (introduced right at the start) is used as the anchor for a URL that has a fragment. Since HTML 4 introduced the   attribute, which may be applied to any element and can also serve as an anchor, the need for empty <a ></a> elements has dropped significantly, except of course for old browsers that don't recognise anything later than HTML 3.2. The   attribute is marked as "obsolete but conforming" in HTML5. -- Red rose64 (talk) 23:34, 5 February 2015 (UTC)
 * I wasn't saying it was an invalid anchor or link, I was just saying that it appeared to be something that was injected as a way to find that specific spot by a script and I was wondering what snippet of code made use of that anchor. —  23:41, 5 February 2015 (UTC)

Today's outage may have changed something. There was a brief period that unvisited pages were bolded in my watchlist (rather than the hard-to-see green bullet). --NE2 21:28, 5 February 2015 (UTC)
 * It's an unintended side effect of the weekly software update. I'm taking care of it. Jackmcbarn (talk) 21:33, 5 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Another example (from an old HTML dog).


 * <a name="Pages_in_category" id="Pages_in_category"></a>Pages in category "Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Anchorage"
 * <a name="Pages_in_category" id="Pages_in_category"></a>Pages in category "Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Anchorage"


 * Seeing an extra > before the closing </a>.


 * Regards, JoeHebda (talk) 21:39, 5 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Only partially fixed. See Category:Women's studies journal stubs. Vegaswikian (talk) 21:46, 5 February 2015 (UTC)
 * We all knew that this house of cards PHP jenga was gonna come tumbling down one day. ;-) Alakzi (talk) 21:54, 5 February 2015 (UTC)
 * I knew. PrimeHunter (talk) 22:08, 5 February 2015 (UTC)

This should be completely fixed now. Jackmcbarn (talk) 00:16, 6 February 2015 (UTC)

The real question is why was this not showing before? <a> is not whitelisted through so it should have always been exposed. We don't even have to nowiki the markup in question: <a name="Pages_in_category" id="Pages_in_category"></a>. --  Gadget850talk 11:51, 7 February 2015 (UTC)
 * It showed on the MediaWiki page itself [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Category_header&oldid=86207875] but many MediaWiki messages allow <a> when they are used. A search on href for example gives MediaWiki:Wikimedia-copyright which is displayed at the bottom of all pages and has working links there. PrimeHunter (talk) 13:48, 7 February 2015 (UTC)
 * My guess is that not all MediaWiki: pages are transcluded at the same time. If this transclusion happens at a late stage, it might be that the sanitiser has already run, and possibly the Wikimarkup parser too, which leaves no choice but to use raw HTML. I count something like 40 system messages with one or more <a ></a> elements. Of customised messages, we have MediaWiki:Centralauth-login-progress, MediaWiki:Googlesearch, MediaWiki:History copyright, MediaWiki:Readonly lag, and as noted above, MediaWiki:Wikimedia-copyright. -- Red rose64 (talk) 15:44, 7 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Not a timing issue; some system messages simply never go through the sanytizer because they do not go through the parser.  16:43, 7 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Starting to make sense. what does "some" mean here? How would I know if an interface page went through the parser? --   Gadget850talk 20:57, 7 February 2015 (UTC)
 * It depends on what part of MediaWiki is actually using the messages. Messages used in the user interface, like MediaWiki:Copyright, are usually not parsed, because wiki markup has no relevance outside content space. Such messages let HTML pass unobstructed. The same goes for messages used by special pages. Some people see this as a security risk (because admins can use raw HTML there). There is a bug at T85864 listing those special pages.  21:51, 7 February 2015 (UTC)
 * They all should go through the parser (or just be HTML-escaped, but that obviously limits customization). If any don't, that's a bug. The bug for MediaWiki:Copyright is . Matma Rex talk 16:21, 9 February 2015 (UTC)

Wikipedia Library Minimum Criteria
Hi Folks: The Wikipedia Library has some pretty stringent requirements for access: a 1-year old account and 1000 edits.

I want to learn many potential users we are 'losing' with this scheme. Could someone create a query that looks for the number of editors active in the last year with at least a 1 year-old account and at least: This would ultimately help us get more accounts to more editors, if we can make the case that we are missing a substantial number of potentially qualified recipients! Cheers, Jake Ocaasit &#124; c 11:46, 6 February 2015 (UTC)
 * a) 250 edits
 * b) 500 edits
 * c) 1000 edits?


 * Hi Jake. First pass - 37940 users on enwiki registered before 2014 and over 1000 edits; 60302 with over 500; 98153 with over 250. However (big caveat) not all of these are still active - the first one I checked was indefinitely blocked, and many more will have made their thousand edits and vanished by 2007. I'll try and figure out the best way to check for # of reasonably active users - has edited in the last month, say? Andrew Gray (talk) 23:35, 6 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Hey Andrew. Thanks!  Yeah, I think active in last month, or even last year would give a pretty good sense of proportion either way.  So if you can do last month, awesome... cheers, Jake Ocaasit &#124; c 19:36, 7 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Not been having much luck with this, I'm afraid. There's a "last touched" field in the user database, which would be exactly what we need, but (presumably for privacy reasons) it's either blank or restricted to internal WMF visibility only. Andrew Gray (talk) 21:12, 9 February 2015 (UTC)

Feature request: "remove redlinks from my watchlist"
I propose: Special:EditWatchlist can have a button that says & does: "Remove redlinks from watchlist". -DePiep (talk) — Preceding undated comment added 21:47, 7 February 2015 (UTC)
 * And while I am here: why not a link in my watchlist: "unwatch this page"? -DePiep (talk) 22:00, 7 February 2015 (UTC)
 * @DePiep: You can install this snippet of JavaScript in your common.js: Snippets/Unwatch from watchlist. Helder 22:10, 7 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Should be wiki. Enough of these hacks I must maintain and that bug my screen ten years after. btw Do you know how I can get rid of that 0-subs "More" tab I inherited? What is more logic that those two button-links in a wikipage? -DePiep (talk) 22:16, 7 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Watch/unwatch is available in popups, more general solution than just unwatch from just watchlist. DMacks (talk) 09:11, 8 February 2015 (UTC)
 * OK. Time for me to accept modernity. Thx. -DePiep (talk) 16:09, 8 February 2015 (UTC)


 * There is an shorter bookmarklet here: c:User:Rillke/Code (you can also simply paste it in your console to execute).
 * PS: The script from Krinkle get hooked on every page load?? This feature is needed only all 2 months (he is good but I saw already some strange scripts from him)<kbd style="white-space:nowrap;color:#567"> → User: Perhelion  12:08, 9 February 2015 (UTC)

API namespace issue / page reported existing in two namespaces
In AWB we are doing an API query to list pages in Category:Book-Class Wikipedia-Books articles. Something odd is happening, we are getting results indicating that pages such as Book talk:Math are in mainspace. Digging into this, we run [//en.wikipedia.org/w/api.php?action=query&format=xml&?action=query&list=categorymembers&cmtitle=Category:Book-Class+Wikipedia-Books+articles&cmcategory=Book-Class+Wikipedia-Books+articles&cmlimit=max&cmcontinue=page%7c4249524453204f4620494e44494120564f4c204949%7c39173120 this query] (seems you won't 'continue' to the right page, but you should get the idea). In the results returned we get: and then in a later 'continue' query we get:  So can anybody please explain why the API says the same page is in two namspaces? Thanks Rjwilmsi  09:56, 8 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Looks like exactly the same thing that happened at Help desk/Archives/2015 January 31. &mdash;Cryptic 10:50, 8 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Yes. See also T87645, User talk:ClueBot Commons/Archives/2015/February, User talk:Redrose64/unclassified 12, User talk:MZMcBride and User talk:ClueBot Commons/Archives/2015/February. -- Red rose64 (talk) 13:15, 8 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Yeah, this is definitely part of a larger problem — I've listed, at User talk:JaGa/Archive 17, 37 titles in Template:, User:, Wikipedia: or User talk: space which, despite being located in internal project spaces, are being erroneously picked up as uncategorized articles by the Untagged Uncategorized Articles toolserver — which should never be picking up anything outside of mainspace. (The WikiProject Encyclopaedia Britannica example that Cryptic raised above is one of the titles in question.) JaGa did a database search, and found that many of the affected pages do have metadata files with the datum "page_namespace: 0" (meaning mainspace) in them — although he only checked the "Wikipedia:" titles and didn't specifically check the others, this is almost certainly the explanation for the others as well. But if he looks at the metadata files that are directly attached to the pages themselves, they're coded correctly — so in other words, there appears to have been a database corruption issue of some kind, in which some pages in project namespaces somehow ended up having duplicate metadata files ghosted into mainspace for some reason. That's how a page can be "in" two namespaces at once: there are two separate metadata files for the same page, with different namespace codes in them. This certainly needs to be corrected somehow — it's interfering with critical maintenance tools, and absolutely cannot be tolerated as a permanent speedbump that users of those tools should be forced to work around — but I'm not sure how to repair the problem directly. Bearcat (talk) 21:09, 9 February 2015 (UTC)
 * I should add as well that the list I gave to JaGa provides one very valuable clue that may help pinpoint the problem: one of the ghost titles is User talk:108.69.192.159, a user talk page which has somehow ended up with a metadata file even though it's not just a page that got deleted, but one which has never actually existed at all. The user's sole contribution was on January 27, so whatever caused this blip most likely happened on or soon after that date. Bearcat (talk) 21:27, 9 February 2015 (UTC)
 * To confirm (I guess) what you are saying, the API seems convinced that both of the above pages exist, the first in namespace 0, and the second in 109: [//en.wikipedia.org/w/api.php?action=query&prop=info&pageids=45227281|43653252 API info]. Johnuniq (talk) 22:25, 9 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Most (if not all) of this is already known, see that Phab ticket which I linked, also the Help desk page. From that, we can see that the first edit in error was at 08:15, 27 January 2015 and the last was at 12:08, 2 February 2015. -- Red rose64 (talk) 22:54, 9 February 2015 (UTC)

Deprecating HTML code breaks
In a template, I changed  into   , being deprecated HTML code. However, in mobile view the new code does not center images any more. Can someone take a look? A demo is in User:DePiep/sandbox1, /sandbox4's are open for your edits. (Warning: old wikitable infobox construct ahead). -DePiep (talk) 16:07, 8 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Images aren't text. To center an image, use the center option, see WP:EIS -- Red rose64 (talk) 16:57, 8 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Used yes in module:InfoboxImage. Is that disadvised in a wikitable? -DePiep (talk) 18:00, 8 February 2015 (UTC)
 * No, should work.  11:47, 9 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Which template? Center is not that easy (as you can see on the deWP is an extra help-page for this) In De there is also an class, but default on Mediawiki is  . You can try it (it is a bit more than  ).<kbd style="white-space:nowrap;color:#567"> → User: Perhelion  11:58, 9 February 2015 (UTC)
 * class="center" didn't do the trick for me elsewhere, I trust that tidy will handle align="center" before the validator sees it. –Be..anyone (talk) 22:13, 9 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Tidy doesn't care about any attributes.  22:21, 9 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Tidy will not fix  as it is whitelisted through, thus it is still valid for Wikipedia. The   class should work, but it sets   so it will expands tables to full width which is usually not desired. See HTML5 for help. If I can get a specific example I am sure I can help. --   Gadget850talk 22:24, 9 February 2015 (UTC)

Table at Teahouse appears broken
The table that is at Teahouse/Questions/Archive_Index appears broken to me. It stretches out way past the boundaries of the right side of the screen by maybe an extra 30% or so. Funny thing is it loads at the right size at first but then expands to mega-sized about one second later. Is anyone else getting this? I'm running Chrome on Windows 8.1 for what it's worth. &#160;<span style="background:#fff;padding:0px 6px;font-family:Garamond;font-weight:bold;letter-spacing:5px;border:1px dotted black"> Discant X  06:39, 9 February 2015 (UTC)
 * I can confirm what you're seeing, and it looks like a broken item is causing this. I have no idea how that archive index works, but I'll see if I can solve it. Martijn Hoekstra (talk) 10:00, 9 February 2015 (UTC)
 * I've added a which seems to fix the table; hopefully the bot won't undo it next time it updates the table. DH85868993 (talk) 10:19, 9 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Solved it; there was a question with a nowiki tag in the title; this caused the next load of questions in the archive to be nowiki'd. Sam Walton (talk) 10:19, 9 February 2015 (UTC)
 * And I changed] the original section that caused the breakage, hopefully making sure the bot will do the right thing on the next run. Go go team fix-it. Martijn Hoekstra (talk) 10:28, 9 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Yay. Thanks for looking at it. &#160;<span style="background:#fff;padding:0px 6px;font-family:Garamond;font-weight:bold;letter-spacing:5px;border:1px dotted black"> Discant X  10:58, 9 February 2015 (UTC)

Lightbox images
Hello all, I'm having a bit of an issue with viewing pictures: I have a script/gadget enabled that opens pictures in a lightbox rather than MediaViewer, and until recently, I was able to close out by just clicking outside the picture. However, I'm now having to hit the back arrow and then re-searching whatever article I was at before (Splatoon, in this case). Any idea why it's now acting up? I've been consistently using the most updated version of Firefox (I've had it for a while, so no specific numbers), so it shouldn't be a browser issue. <font style="text-shadow:0em 0em 0.75em #B87333;">Supernerd11 Firemind <font color="9F000F">^_^ Pokedex 17:43, 9 February 2015 (UTC)

Bits on the fritz?
About half the time, I don't get any CSS/JavaScript served. What's up? 22:23, 9 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Anything in the Network tab of your browser's developer tools? Wondering if this problem happens with everything served from bits or just some parts. --AKlapper (WMF) (talk) 23:51, 9 February 2015 (UTC)
 * FWIW - not sure if its related to this or not but I'm getting reports like "... after 10 minutes or so of editing, when scrolling the original, the page rendering stops for about 10-15 seconds after each touch of the scroll bar, and I am unable to produce much work." among other "new" behaviors over on Wikisource (pretty much since the [re]deployment of 1.25wmf15 on 2/5). So far - only FireFox users seem to be speaking to these new quirks. -- George Orwell III (talk) 00:05, 10 February 2015 (UTC)

Error: Invalid time.
I was finishing up a Good Article review, and putting the template in to signify the successful promotion on this page. However, when I saved it, in red text was the error "Error: Invalid time." I Googled it and found the same error elsewhere. I'm using Firefox 35.0.1 on OS X 10.10.1. Thanks, <font color="Sky blue">Acalycine <font color="Sky blue">(talk <font color="Sky blue">/contribs) 05:38, 10 February 2015 (UTC)
 * You did 4 ~ instead of 5 ~. I fixed it for you. ChrisGualtieri (talk) 05:54, 10 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Doh! Stupid me, that was the problem. Thanks Chris! <font color="Sky blue">Acalycine <font color="Sky blue">(talk <font color="Sky blue">/contribs) 05:59, 10 February 2015 (UTC)
 * As for the second one, the template m:Template:Archive header expects the last part of the page name to resemble a date. In the case of Help Forum/Archive 2, the last part is "Archive 2", which is not a date. -- Red rose64 (talk) 12:07, 10 February 2015 (UTC)

Archives template
The Archives template cannot cope with more than 48 pages. Please can someone fix this? Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 10:46, 10 February 2015 (UTC)
 * I've been working on an archive module for WP:CHU archives, and it's starting to turn into a more general-purpose archive module. I'll see if it can apply over there as well. — <span style="color: #194D00; font-family: Palatino, Times, serif">Mr. Stradivarius on tour  ♪ talk ♪ 11:39, 10 February 2015 (UTC)
 * (ec) I'll have the setup for an alternative done in a bit, but getting all the parameters supported might take a bit. Martijn Hoekstra (talk) 12:32, 10 February 2015 (UTC)
 * As a proof of concept, User:Martijn Hoekstra/archivealt2 seems to work as an adequate replacement for archives (it replaces the call to the inner module with a call to a lua module Module:Martijn Hoekstra/archivecounter) apart from the root parameter. I can attempt to make this nice and all tonight CET. Review appreciated (I'm looking at you /) Martijn Hoekstra (talk) 13:11, 10 February 2015 (UTC)
 * That should be done. See Template_talk:Archive_list_long. Any advice on how to move forward? Martijn Hoekstra (talk) 20:28, 10 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Seems to be working well; thank you. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 23:49, 10 February 2015 (UTC)

Change in blocking reasons
I've just blocked someone spamublock, and found the blocking reasons have been changed in order. That's no real problem, but the reason shown on the red banner of blocking (and in the drop-down list to select from) is now " " instead of "  ". Is this supposed to be an advance? These spamublocks aren't always 'bad faith' in the sense that vandalism is. They are often through ignorance and not through deliberate attack on Wikipedia. For a now example, see User:Sumtrix. and a before at User:Mkn000. Peridon (talk) 11:48, 7 February 2015 (UTC)
 * I've posted a message at AN as well to send people here. Peridon (talk) 11:53, 7 February 2015 (UTC)
 * If there isn't sign of bad faith, then spamusernameblock isn't appropriate. You'd want softerblock, uw-softestblock, or perhaps causeblock instead. &mdash;Cryptic 12:30, 7 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Soft block is for an organisational name, not for advertising, as I see it. I'm talking about the ones who genuinely haven't realised that they can't advertise here like they can on social media, or haven't realised how promotional their post was - and have an inappropriate name. This change is accusing all the spamublock ones of bad faith. Has there been a discussion on this, and if so where? Or has an intended non-displaying comment become displayed on the red banner? That looks like comment coding, but it's displaying on the banner. Peridon (talk) 12:46, 7 February 2015 (UTC)
 * You have a better AGFometer than me, I suppose. I've [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log/block&page=User%3ACryptic tested] the new block message; the comments appear in the block log, but not in the message that shows up when you try to edit, so I don't see how it's any worse than the template name including the word "spam". &mdash;Cryptic 13:00, 7 February 2015 (UTC)
 * If you look in the Sumtrix link above, it's showing there - for me, at least, in Monobook and signed out in Vector. Peridon (talk) 13:57, 7 February 2015 (UTC)


 * I have to agree with Peridon, I don't see the additional verbiage added to the block reasons as needed or helpful, especially in the case of the spamublock template. The change should be undone until it can be discussed further.-- Jezebel's Ponyo bons mots 17:22, 7 February 2015 (UTC)
 * I don't think this is a technical issue, the list was recently changed by ; suggest moving discussion to MediaWiki talk:Ipbreason-dropdown unless there is an actual technical issue identified. — xaosflux  Talk 19:34, 7 February 2015 (UTC)
 * I'd prefer a move to AN rather than MediaWiki - there'll be more participation over here and it's an en-wiki problem not an MW one. I still think the comment might not be supposed to display outside the list, and that's probably technical. Peridon (talk) 20:30, 7 February 2015 (UTC)
 * MediaWiki talk:Ipbreason-dropdown is a page on en-wiki. It's the talk page for MediaWiki:Ipbreason-dropdown, where all those block reasons are listed. Pages on MW begin mw:, as in mw:MediaWiki:Ipbreason-dropdown. -- Red rose64 (talk) 20:53, 7 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks for that. I hate going to other places that don't show up on my contribs list. I lose track of them... Peridon (talk) 21:22, 7 February 2015 (UTC)

Well since the conversation is continuing here, I guess I'll reply here. I suggested this change on January 26 at this very village pump, now archived here. There didn't seem to be any great uproar at the idea. I took the "additional verbiage" as Ponyo describes it directly from the descriptions at WP:UTN. For example, uw-spamublock is the appropriate message for a bad-faith promotional username block and has been since 2008 when that template was created. (Ironically, that was the template I used in my original suggestion as an example of what would be changed.) If the majority agrees that the additional verbiage is not required, that's great; I only included those to assist users that are somehow not familiar with the correct template names, so they can find the appropriate one to use. I'm happy to hear that somebody agrees that people should know the correct templates and their usage by now. --Geniac (talk) 02:48, 8 February 2015 (UTC) Addendum: I'm happy to see other users successfully choosing the updated block reasons without too much of a problem:, , , , --Geniac (talk) 03:01, 8 February 2015 (UTC)
 * If the template were sanely named, it wouldn't need the additional verbiage. "uw-spamublock" is almost completely meaningless, like most of what WP:UW has come up with; the redirect from spamusernameblock is actually readable by humans. &mdash;Cryptic 08:37, 8 February 2015 (UTC)
 * What the templates are named are what the templates are named. If you wish to for a change in that regard, I'd suggest proposing that at WT:UTM --Geniac (talk) 16:10, 8 February 2015 (UTC)


 * It's the wording appearing on the red banner that worries me, not what it says in the dropdown. Softerblock is OK for very minor promotionality, but for a full-blown ad there's only spamublock no matter whether they posted it as a deliberate attempt to flout our rules, or whether they were either under the impression that it was OK (as it is at Facebook) or thought that that was how it should be worded, being indoctrinated by PR wording seen everywhere. (An example in the UK in particular is a sign on a shop saying 'Car park to rear' because estate agents seem incapable of using the word 'at' even for things that are very immobile.) Until a revision of these classes is made (with possibly a reduction of size of spamublock), I don't thing the words 'bad faith' should be on the banner. They're fine as a comment on the dropdown because only admins see that. Peridon (talk) 12:51, 8 February 2015 (UTC)
 * BTW I for one of the admins who delete lots of stuff only come on this board when there's a problem. And when I do come here, I don't see the others I see frequently in CSD etc, unless they've also experienced the problem. As it's an admin thing rather than a technical thing (apart, of course, from making the change), I'd have thought AN a better place for the suggestion. Peridon (talk) 12:57, 8 February 2015 (UTC)
 * If I'd seen that heading here, I wouldn't have known what it was about. I also notice that only one of the two that commented was an admin. But if I had seen this, and looked in, I would have taken <-- Promotional username - Bad faith --> to be a comment line for admins to see. Peridon (talk) 13:08, 8 February 2015 (UTC)
 * How about this for a solution to both issues (1: users only familiar with the redirect template names and 2: the additional verbiage showing up in the block banner not just the dropdown)... the entries are changed to say something like <tt> </tt>. So issue 1 is solved; the redirect name some may be more familiar with is listed right there. And issue 2 is solved: no "bad faith" wording showing up in the block banner message. --Geniac (talk) 16:10, 8 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Looks fine to me. Thanks. Peridon (talk) 18:30, 8 February 2015 (UTC)
 * I've made some changes along those lines . I'd probably still like it a little better without the comments, or at least if the comments somehow didn't show up in the actual block log, but I don't mind it too much now. --Bongwarrior (talk) 07:29, 9 February 2015 (UTC)
 * That looks OK too. Thanks. Peridon (talk) 09:17, 9 February 2015 (UTC)
 * I'm happy with those changes as well.-- Jezebel's Ponyo bons mots 16:31, 9 February 2015 (UTC)
 * I'm also happy with the "hard block/soft block" verbiage. Everybody fine? Things are cool? Ok, time for a nice hot cup of tea. --Geniac (talk) 01:59, 10 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Sorry to delay teatime, but could I suggest one more small change? For  and , can we use a more generic term like "organization name" instead of "company" because these block templates can apply to other types of organizations (for example a band, musical group, etc.) rather than just a company. -- Ed (Edgar181) 13:15, 11 February 2015 (UTC)

Tech News: 2015-07
<section begin="technews-2015-W07"/> Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Recent software changes
 * You can now use  to transclude a section by its title.

Problems
 * MediaWiki was reverted to the previous version on February 4. It was because of a performance issue. It was restored later.
 * UploadWizard was broken on February 4 because of the revert of MediaWiki.
 * All sites were broken for 30 minutes on February 5. It was due to a network problem.

Software changes this week
 * The new version of MediaWiki has been on test wikis and MediaWiki.org since February 5. It will be on non-Wikipedia wikis from February 10. It will be on all Wikipedias from February 11 (calendar).
 * You can have one user page for all wikis. Your Meta user page will show if you don't have a user page on a wiki. You can test this tool on test wikis.
 * You can search for media files in VisualEditor more easily. Images are bigger and you see the size and license.
 * It is easier to review your changes when you save the page in VisualEditor. The window is wider.
 * You can read the latest news about VisualEditor. You can now join weekly meetings with developers. During the meetings you can tell developers which bugs are the most important. The first meeting is on February 11 at 20:00 (UTC).

Future changes
 * Administrators will soon be able to delete change tags used fewer than 5,000 times.
 * In the future you will be able to have personal lists of articles on the mobile site.

Tech news prepared by tech ambassadors and posted by bot • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe. <section end="technews-2015-W07"/> 16:27, 9 February 2015 (UTC)

New search not finding title matches
Special:Search/U of A Community College at Hope doesn't have University of Arkansas Community College at Hope on the first page, and List of colleges and universities in Arkansas is #19. --NE2 04:05, 11 February 2015 (UTC)
 * The "U" and "A" are being searched for literally, first at least, and other pages mention say "U.S.A." and so are matching more words completely.
 * I assume you're suggesting the old search did "better" with this. Could it be that shorter words matching produced a lesser relevance score than now?
 * Mark Hurd (talk) 10:23, 11 February 2015 (UTC)
 * If the search results aren't "fixed" to your satisfaction (or you really want a short term workaround), specify "country = U.S.A." in the Infobox (which should really be done anyway, seeing as this is not US-specific, but I haven't done it so as to not change this search result). Mark Hurd (talk) 11:08, 11 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Google, whose core business is web search, has some pretty nifty innovations, among which understanding that "U of A" in some contexts means University of Arkansas, and rather than treating all tokens separately additionally searches for the set phrase "University of Arkansas". It's some pretty cool stuff. Our search isn't nearly as sophisticated, and doesn't draw that same conclusion. I don't think our search will ever be as good as Googles. As an alternative, you could use google search rather than our own search. Martijn Hoekstra (talk) 11:57, 11 February 2015 (UTC)

Problem with DS alerts template
There's a problem with one of the discretionary-sanctions templates that I can't see how to fix. Template:Ds/alert says that gg refers to gamergate and GGTF to gender gap task force, but currently both alerts – gg and ggtf – lead to GGTF. They have different messages: the alert produced by gg is correct, but it should be called ggtf. If someone could fix this it would be very helpful. I can't see how to get to it. Sarah (SV) (talk) 22:46, 11 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Sorry, cancel that. I just worked out how to do it. Sarah (SV) (talk) 22:54, 11 February 2015 (UTC)

Lua module for date handling
Could someone please make (or point me to it, of one exists already) a Lua module which takes a date in a variety of unambiguous formats, and outputs it in one of a few a standard formats, as selected by a switch parameter?

For example, it should accept dates in formats such as:


 * 01 February 2014
 * 1 Feb 2015
 * 1 Feb. 2015
 * 23/4/2014
 * 23-04-2014
 * 2014-04-23
 * 2014-04-01 <- note, not ambiguous, as ISO compliant
 * 1FEB2014
 * others tbc?

(all case insensitive, and allowing other permutations of "1" and "01", "4" and "04"); and output dates in these formats:


 * 1 February 2015
 * February 1st, 2015
 * 2015-02-01
 * [as three parameters, YYYY, MM and DD]

It should reject dates in the format:


 * 01-02-2015
 * 02-01-2015
 * 1 Feb 15

as ambiguous, and should reject invalid dates such as:


 * 29 February 2015
 * 31 September 2015

I would like this module to be available for use in a number of other templates. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 13:50, 3 February 2015 (UTC)


 * mw:Help:Extension:ParserFunctions is pretty advanced and uses an existing well-known PHP function. I'm not sure it's a good idea to make an alternative. PrimeHunter (talk) 14:20, 3 February 2015 (UTC)
 * seems to accept almost all of these and output what you want.
 * 01 February 2014 → =
 * 1 Feb 2015 →
 * 1 Feb. 2015 →
 * 23/4/2014 → Error: Invalid time. (This one fails as "Invalid time", presumably this is parsed as M/D/Y, which makes it invalid. Clearly, the format is ambiguous.)
 * 23-04-2014 →
 * 2014-04-23 →
 * 2014-04-01 →
 * 1FEB2014 →
 * It will, however, also accept your ambiguous and invalid examples, and try to do its best to parse them.
 * 01-02-2015 →
 * 02-01-2015 →
 * 1 Feb 15 →
 * 29 February 2015 →
 * 31 September 2015 → (these two are really fun, heh)
 * I agree that it would be better to stick to it rather than create an alternative. As the one invalid "good" example you've given shows, it's really hard to do this well, and #time does an okay job. Matma Rex talk 15:09, 3 February 2015 (UTC)
 * The extension parser function #time can silently "correct" instances of dates stated in the Julian calendar. For example, 29 February 1900 (which was observed in Greece and Russia) would be rendered as 1 March 1900. This doesn't seem like the kind of function you would want to hide under the covers for use by editors who are potentially unaware of the subtleties of calendars. I would think a function that screams bloody murder when fed a date it considers invalid would be a better choice. Jc3s5h (talk) 15:38, 3 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Quite. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 15:39, 3 February 2015 (UTC)
 * How would we get the multi-parameter output? (Assuming that 01-02-2015 is 2015-02-01 is very, very dumb.) Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 15:39, 3 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Did you see the above question? Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 10:48, 10 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Module:Citation/CS1 should have most of this functionality. --  Gadget850talk 06:13, 4 February 2015 (UTC)
 * I asked there, but there was no indication that that was the case, and little inetrest in implementing such ficntionality. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 10:48, 10 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Um, what is "multi-parameter output"? Matma Rex talk 16:03, 10 February 2015 (UTC)
 * From my initial post: "[as three parameters, YYYY, MM and DD]". Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 16:21, 10 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Ah. You can just produce each one separately, like this (look at source wikicode): year=, month=, day=. Matma Rex talk 15:11, 11 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Thank you. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 16:40, 11 February 2015 (UTC)

Past discussion
Something similar has come up before, Cite web/auto, The point of that was to fix various errors in citation templates. But there was no support for it; other than the author people thought it better to have the template report problems rather than fix them silently, otherwise problems would persist for much longer. Although these aren't strictly errors I think the same applies: better to flag them and have editors fix them, checking sources for e.g. ambiguous or clearly wrong (31 September etc.) dates, rather than have software guess, possibly get it wrong, and hide the error so other editors have less chance of fixing it.-- JohnBlackburne words<sub style="margin-left:-2.0ex;">deeds 16:22, 10 February 2015 (UTC)
 * The above request isn't about citations, and it's not about guessing I specifically referred to unambiguous dates). Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 23:52, 10 February 2015 (UTC)
 * I was bringing it up as something similar that has been considered, in particular for citations templates which you enquired about yourself, though it is unclear which templates this is for so how relevant. I still think the same applies; flag it as incorrect and get the editor to fix it, ideally as they preview it so before they hit save. Don't silently 'fix' it its in the correct format but the source is still non-standard.-- JohnBlackburne words<sub style="margin-left:-2.0ex;">deeds 00:39, 11 February 2015 (UTC)
 * My two-penn'orth: I'd like to see date extended so that it emits date in user preference. I.e. a render-time. N.B. 'preference' to include user language, so  would give 13 fév 2015 for a French speaker, etc. --  Unbuttered parsnip  (talk) mytime= Fri 08:47, wikitime=  00:47, 13 February 2015 (UTC)
 * I think French is a bit too far – the French WP is over there – but even within English there are different preferences, and differences between British and American practices, The problem though is this could cause problems, from the subtle to the serious, as e.g. one editor adds dates to a table or infobox, say, with one preference and it's viewed by a user with different preferences. It might just look untidy, it might be too wide and end up wrapping, making rows of the table twice as high perhaps. The second user might then fix it, but it might then look wrong, even broken, to the first or another editor who reverts or repairs it. And so on. Such disputes would be hard to resolve as different editors would be seeing different things, even with the same browser and OS.-- JohnBlackburne words<sub style="margin-left:-2.0ex;">deeds 01:53, 13 February 2015 (UTC)

Echo notificiations
I've got a red "1" next to my name, but I don't have any new notifications. I clicked on all of the ones listed just to try to clear it but it won't go away.--v/r - TP 18:04, 5 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Known issue - WP:BYPASS. :) —  18:26, 5 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Even if it doesn't go after a WP:BYPASS, it should go away in a little while. Just be patient. I think we've all had this problem at some point. Jared Preston (talk) 18:28, 5 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Note there may be two tabs. When you click the 1, you should see either just "Alerts" or both "Alerts" and "Messages" (the latter is used for Flow).  If you see "Messages", make sure you click that to check any notifications in that tab (in the "Messages" tab, there is also an X to "Mark as read" (if visiting doesn't work for some reason) and a "Mark all as read". Mattflaschen (WMF) (talk) 00:56, 11 February 2015 (UTC)
 * I look at both and everything was read. No matter, though.  Someone else pinged me, I got a "2", read the new one, and it cleared.--v/r - TP 02:18, 11 February 2015 (UTC)


 * I have the same problem and it has not gone away in weeks. On top, I am also not receiving notifications that I should. Ottawahitech (talk) 01:12, 11 February 2015 (UTC)

I seem to be getting selective echo "mentions" on user talk pages, perhaps 50 percent of the time, with the others disappearing into the ether. Does anyone know what's going on? Viriditas (talk) 02:22, 12 February 2015 (UTC)
 * See recent posts by at WT:Echo (also at Template talk:Reply to and Template talk:User link). Have these selective mentions been happening for some time, or did they begin yesterday? -- Red rose64 (talk) 12:17, 12 February 2015 (UTC)
 * I just looked at the last two pings I didn't receive, and in both cases the editor did not sign their posts. Viriditas (talk) 19:31, 12 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Well, that would certainly explain it. A valid signature must be added with the same edit that the link to your user page is added. -- Red rose64 (talk) 19:33, 12 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks for helping me isolate the problem. Since there are still editors that are still not up to speed on Echo, would you be in favor of advertising the simple fact that one must sign and ping in the same edit to the wider community, possibly through a sitewide watchlist message or banner notice? Viriditas (talk) 02:52, 13 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Or can that be fixed? Not being able to fix a typo isn't ideal. Sarah (SV) (talk) 04:41, 13 February 2015 (UTC)
 * The requirement to sign on the same post as the user link is already described, at WP:Echo, also (other places too). I can't force people to read documentation.
 * Not being able to fix a typo is a known problem with Notifications. -- Red rose64 (talk) 09:25, 13 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Question: should we expect our users to read documentation on every feature? Or should we make them more intuitive with some kind of error checking? Viriditas (talk) 10:32, 13 February 2015 (UTC)

It looks like the problem is still unresolved. Here's another recent ping I never got: [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:WhisperToMe&diff=prev&oldid=646827698] And, another one: [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3AArthur_Rubin&diff=644618085&oldid=644603772] Can you look at those diffs  to see if anything went wrong? Viriditas (talk) 03:13, 13 February 2015 (UTC)
 * The first one possibly failed because it has instead of . The second one possibly failed because a subheading was added. -- Red rose64 (talk) 09:25, 13 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks! Viriditas (talk) 10:32, 13 February 2015 (UTC)

Cite menu on toolbar
Hello. Is there a way to put my own templates in cite menu? Or to have in toolbar some of my own preferences? Xaris333 (talk) 10:09, 10 February 2015 (UTC)
 * I haven't tried it here, but I added the Redirect button to my toolbar on a wiki that didn't include it for everyone. (Ignore the unrelated top three changes, and look at the intermediate revisions if you want to add more than one button.) Mark Hurd (talk) 11:23, 11 February 2015 (UTC)

But how I know which are the buttons I can add? Xaris333 (talk) 21:20, 12 February 2015 (UTC)

Issue with fonts caused by Windows Vista update
Just a public announcement if anyone else is having an issue with fonts looking like shite: --NE2 02:37, 12 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Reference desk/Computing. --  Gadget850talk 10:45, 12 February 2015 (UTC)
 * The official line. -- Red rose64 (talk) 12:26, 12 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Ha! I just wanted to post this one! Learned a lot today about fonts, while I was trying to figure out wat was causing the problem. See also Patch Tuesday: Font Corruption with KB3013455 and Update KB3013455 Messes Up Fonts. Joshua Jonathan  - Let's talk!  20:06, 12 February 2015 (UTC)

Unpaired font-size tag on Template:Copyviocore?
The font size of the header of Copyviocore has suddenly got much bigger (which is fine by me), but a weird </font-size> tag has sprung up at the same time. There's nothing in the history of the template to explain the change; indeed, it shows up in historic versions too. Can anyone explain? Fix? Many thanks, Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 23:45, 12 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Oddly did not show until I purged. Changed invalid to . --   Gadget850talk 00:05, 13 February 2015 (UTC)


 * It seems to have been added by during edits attempting fix some problem in ! Mark Hurd (talk) 01:30, 13 February 2015 (UTC)


 * It sounds like Sanitizer.php fixed the invalid html before but has stopped doing it. PrimeHunter (talk) 02:03, 13 February 2015 (UTC)

Is this more than coincidence?
Yesterday amongst other corrections to pages with ref errors, I made one to Browser hijacking. Today my notebook is unusable, as things keep popping up in MSIE, Firefox and Opera. Is it just coincidence, or is there some secret stuff hidden there? It could be coincidence, because yesterday I also ran the weekly Windows update. (W7). Also, that notebook is falling to pieces, literally, so anything could be going on. But worth checking just the same. -- Unbuttered parsnip  (talk) mytime= Fri 08:53, wikitime=  00:53, 13 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Looking through the source editing window, I don't see anything out of the ordinary. I'm not aware of any way to hide stuff within a Wikipedia page, but I'm no expert, so take that as you will. <font style="text-shadow:0em 0em 0.75em #B87333;">Supernerd11 Firemind <font color="9F000F">^_^ Pokedex 02:30, 13 February 2015 (UTC)

And if your machine doesn't work tomorrow you'll know why! -- Unbuttered parsnip  (talk) mytime= Fri 13:52, wikitime=  05:52, 13 February 2015 (UTC)
 * I know a few weeks ago I was correcting a software page, and it was just XML, nothing else. But when I saved, there was a 'nothing-changed' report and it didn't show up on my contributions list, so I can't even tell you what it was.


 * A long shot but could your browser be trying to look ahead and cache pages that are e.g. linked from ones you visit? I'm not going to look for myself but Browser hijacking might have links that lead to, well, browser hijacking; deliberately (unlikely) or to sites which link to them, or even to sites about browser hijacking which have been tempting targets for hackers (especially given how ELs can suffer serious link rot). My first guess though was coincidence, possibly something picked up somewhere else, possibly Windows needing a rebuild or reinstall.-- JohnBlackburne words<sub style="margin-left:-2.0ex;">deeds 06:28, 13 February 2015 (UTC)

The Amazing Spider-Man (2012 film) vandalism
Hi, looks like this page was vandalized yesterday but not spotted, and other changes have been made since, can someone look at ? Thanks GrahamHardy (talk) 13:07, 13 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Could have been a mistake. Anyway, I reverted to last known-good version. Any subsequent edits will have to be redone.  13:31, 13 February 2015 (UTC)

Wikipedia pages getting hung up pretty frequently lately
I've been getting the following message pretty frequently on Wikipedia pages in the last week or so:

''A script on this page may be busy, or it may have stopped responding. You can stop the script now, open the script in the debugger, or let the script continue.

Script: https://bits.wikimedia.org/en.wikipedia.org/load.php?debug=false&lang=en&modules=jquery%2Cmediawiki&only=scripts&skin=monobook&version=20150205T202925Z:4''

Happens probably every 5th page I load, more or less. No other site besides WP. I'm 95% clueless on how all this works. From this message, is this enough info to tell if this is a problem on my end, or on WP's end? Is this something in my .js or .css file, which I can remove? Or do I have to live with it because it's not under my control?

I haven't changed my .js or .css files in months, and haven't (intentionally) changed or upgraded browsers in the last month or so. --Floquenbeam (talk) 16:45, 8 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Is your browser Firefox? -- Red rose64 (talk) 16:58, 8 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Sorry, I know I'm supposed to say that. Yes, Firefox 35.0.1. --Floquenbeam (talk) 17:19, 8 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Me too, but I get the problem on lots of web pages; rarely Wikipedia. Newspaper websites are worst. It mostly seems to happen when I have lots of applications running, a slow connection and am trying to load a web page that is heavy on scripts or video content. It appears to trigger if the page fails to complete inside 60 seconds. Usually, if it's an advert I, but when waiting for text I.
 * You could try clearing caches, and temporary internet files. -- Red rose64 (talk) 18:02, 8 February 2015 (UTC)
 * You can try turning off the userscripts you are using to try to determine if one of those is causing the issue (you can find them on User:Floquenbeam/common.js and User:Floquenbeam/monobook.js (that is assuming you use monobook, which seems to be the case). If you remove them all, and turn them back on one by one, and the problem starts when you activate one, that's your issue. Martijn Hoekstra (talk) 20:31, 8 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Yes, I've been gettig this recently (Firefox 35.0.1) not just on WP but I've found just clicking "stop script" seems to leave the page properly displayed. Thincat (talk) 17:47, 9 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks all. For me, it's only happening on WP, but I don't frequent other sites with a lot of scripts (well, that I know of).  I get the page served up eventually, I'm just annoyed at the 30 second wait until I get the error message, when everything locks up and I can't do anything.  I've followed Martijn's advice; if this solved the problem, I'll slowly add them back.  Thanks again. --Floquenbeam (talk) 16:32, 10 February 2015 (UTC)
 * I've been getting the same thing for a few weeks now. It's obnoxious.  I hope someone figures out a fix. Curly Turkey ¡gobble! 07:43, 14 February 2015 (UTC)

Reminder: Weekly VisualEditor triage meeting tomorrow at 20:00 UTC (12:00 PST)
As a reminder, on Wednesday, 11 February 2015 at 12:00 (noon) PST (20:00 UTC) there will be the first of a weekly series of open triage meetings about VisualEditor.

We will discuss the release criteria for VisualEditor, and jointly prioritise the work of the team, talking about the bugs and features which are most important to you. We particularly welcome the presence of volunteers who enjoy contributing MediaWiki code.

The joining instructions are available on MediaWiki.org. Hope to see many of you there.

Jdforrester (WMF) (talk) 19:29, 10 February 2015 (UTC)


 * I missed this. Is there a transscript/log? Martijn Hoekstra (talk) 21:58, 12 February 2015 (UTC)


 * We're not recording the calls, no; however, I'm about to write-up the outcomes with an e-mail to wikitech-l which I can link to from here. Next week's meeting (at 08:00 PST == 16:00 UTC) will have a slot where people can nominate things to be de-listed, and new and re-nominations will be considered in the main session as this time. Jdforrester (WMF) (talk) 20:51, 13 February 2015 (UTC)

signature
Why I can not sign correctly? does anybody know? M.Sakhaie 11:29, 14 February 2015 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by M.Sakhaie (talk • contribs)
 * Are you typing four tildes at the end of your talk page posts? (i.e.  )  GoingBatty (talk) 13:42, 14 February 2015 (UTC)


 * The easiest way to get a valid signature is to have a blank "Signature" field at Special:Preferences and no check mark at "Treat the above as wiki markup." See more at Signatures. PrimeHunter (talk) 13:44, 14 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Thank you very much! { M.Sakhaie (talk) 17:58, 14 February 2015 (UTC)

Tool down, maintainer notified
The tool at http://tools.wmflabs.org/bibleversefinder, mantained by a veteran editor, has been down for almost (or "at least"?) five months now. That editor's talk page has three comments on it (including mine, a few days ago) from other users. What to do in that case? I would like to edit one page which uses that tool, but don't want to seem rude about it. I wrote the third note on the veteran editor's talk page. The other two notes were written by two other different editors, within months of each other. In wikipedia-editing time (if there is such a thing), is it the right time to do something about it? I'm not quite offering myself to mantaining it...but perhaps would like to know what it might entail to maintain a lab tool (I'm new to the registered Wikipedia "world," but not to editing articles). -- Capikiw (talk) 22:37, 11 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Starting the same discussion in multiple places is discouraged. Please see Teahouse/Questions. —   22:41, 11 February 2015 (UTC)
 * In regards to this, people may be interested in commenting on Requests for comment/Abandoned Labs tools as well. —  16:56, 15 February 2015 (UTC)

I don't know whether this is the right spot for this but.
Some pages refuse to let me post. Right now I am trying to edit [|this] and here. I press save edit and nothing happens. Please help. I am using a phone and chrome browser Wikipedia. Not an app. I have no idea what is triggering this. It might have something to do with references but I've posted at least 5 references before without an issue. Thanks. Don't forget to ping me. -DangerousJXD (talk) 01:11, 13 February 2015 (UTC)
 * OK I think I know what caused it. I got it to work now. Finally! And added a bucket load of references.-DangerousJXD (talk) 02:01, 13 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Care to share what you did to fix it, for future reference? Matma Rex talk 14:49, 15 February 2015 (UTC)
 * OK then. Turns out the reference I was trying to post was not done properly or something. To fix it I went to the reference itself again and copied it again and redid the reference. Before I fixed it, I tried a few things, one of them was switching to desktop mode. When I clicked save in desktop mode, I got an error message instead of it just hanging there. The error said that the reference was wrong or something. So to sum it up, I did the reference wrong. -DangerousJXD (talk) 20:54, 15 February 2015 (UTC)

Is this old AfC submission a suitable article?
Dear tech people: I posted a notice at the Internet Wikiproject about this some time ago, but received to reply, so I thought perhaps editors here would be familiar with this kind of thing. The draft article Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Echo (Cloud Services) has quite a few references, but I can't tell if this is a notable topic. It's eligible for db-g13 deletion now. I'm willing to fix it up if it's notable, but if not this would be a good time for it to disappear. Any opinions? &mdash;Anne Delong (talk) 17:44, 14 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Notability is established by the sources. TechTarget seems good and the author of the sourced article seems credible enough in his own right; DiscussIT Blog is, well, a blog (plus the link 404's); bub.licio.us seems okay, but not sure about that one; TechCrunch has been discussed over at WikiProject Video Games multiple times before, where opinions are very split, but sound like it's generally unreliable; ReadWrite Web is a little iffy (It would depend on a way to establish the author's notability, of which only the second one has anything written about them, and that doesn't really establish credibility); Backplane Exchange is a first-party site; and Synaptic Web sounds like a wiki. This leaves us with one good reference, nine possibly good ones split between two sites, and three no-no's. I couldn't find much of anything else on a ref hunt. Depending on how other editors look at TechCrunch and ReadWrite Web, whether to delete this or not could go either way. <font style="text-shadow:0em 0em 0.75em #B87333;">Supernerd11 Firemind <font color="9F000F">^_^ Pokedex 23:22, 15 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Thank you very much, Supernerd11, for the detailed analysis. Your explanations will help me the next time I am trying to evaluate an online product.   has started improving this one, so it's no longer eligible for db-g13 deletion.  Since it's on the edge, it may as well stay in Draft for now, and see what press it may garner over the next while.  &mdash;Anne Delong (talk) 12:23, 16 February 2015 (UTC)

WP:RFED and editprotected talk pages
Below I copy from a WP:AN section: edit protected The blue "submit an edit request" button does not work on protected talk pages, hence my request here.

In please change
 * I have opened a new section at WT:MOS for continued development of new dash guidelines, as 16 July approaches and we need plenary discussion with fuller participation. See also a summary of the action up till now, in the section that precedes that one ("Dash guidelines: toward a conclusion").

to


 * I have opened a new section at WT:MOS for continued development of new dash guidelines, as 16 July approaches and we need plenary discussion with fuller participation. See also a summary of the action up till now, in the section that precedes that one ("Dash guidelines: toward a conclusion").

Reason: links to two archive pages, to facilitate following the trail of archived discussions. Thanks, Wbm1058 (talk) 23:12, 14 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Done. For future reference, WP:RFPP has a section for this (shortcut WP:RFED), "Current requests for edits to a protected page".  Nyttend (talk) 07:25, 15 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I figured that there was such a place, but Edit requests, the obvious page to look for it, was a dead end for me. I just updated to more broadly discuss the purpose of WP:RFED. It would also be helpful if the magic behind the blue "submit an edit request" button were made intelligent enough to detect pages which are protected beyond the editors' privilege level and automatically redirect them to WP:RFED rather than open up an edit window that the editor can't edit. Wbm1058 (talk) 16:20, 15 February 2015 (UTC) Is there a way to resolve this situation?  Can we set up the "submit an edit request" button so that it automatically goes to WP:RFED when the protected page is a talk page?  Nyttend (talk) 19:57, 15 February 2015 (UTC)
 * ✅ Jackmcbarn (talk) 01:32, 16 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks, ! Works great. Wbm1058 (talk) 04:53, 16 February 2015 (UTC)

Missing Central Notice?
Has anyone else not seen the stewards elections central notice while on enwiki? (See also MediaWiki_talk:Watchlist-details). — xaosflux  Talk 13:58, 15 February 2015 (UTC)
 * No. I had to update my AdBlock filters on c: d: de: m: and mw:, but not here. Either my old filters still work only here or the central notice didn't show up here for Monobook users. –Be..anyone (talk) 01:53, 17 February 2015 (UTC)
 * ✅ Solved at MediaWiki talk:Watchlist-details. — xaosflux  Talk 01:56, 17 February 2015 (UTC)

Page load not completing.
It is taking a very long time to load any page. I'm not certain whether this is my end or Wikipedia's, but I notice the when I look at the load on Firebug, every page is sitting there trying to load WikEd_error.png, apparently for ever. (Firefox 35.0 on Fedora 20). --ColinFine (talk) 00:13, 16 February 2015 (UTC)
 * What is the URL of that WikEd_error.png file? Sounds like it comes from some gadget? --AKlapper (WMF) (talk) 14:12, 16 February 2015 (UTC)


 * https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3e/WikEd_error.png I didn't actually realise that I had WikEd enabled: I'll turn it off and see if that makes a difference. --ColinFine (talk) 17:56, 16 February 2015 (UTC)

Possible problem with Navigation Popup gadget
Possible problem with Navigation Popup gadget

I have this gadget enabled just about always, because it often avoids having to open another tab when you just want to clarify the meaning of a word/phrase that is linked to a wikipedia article.

Today I was looking at the Percent-encoding article. When I moused over the Uniform Resource Locator link in the first paragraph, the text presented in the popup confused me, so I opened the article and sure enough it was presented differently to the information in the popup, so that the meaning of the article itself was clear.

To illustrate the difference, the text below is a direct copy of the wiki markup from the first paragraph of the uniform resource locator article (except that I have removed the references along with their enclosing ref tags, because they otherwise appear at the end of this note), so you should see it exactly as it is presented on the wikipedia page (but without the blue superscript links "[1]" and "[2]"):

A uniform resource locator (abbreviated URL; also known as a web address, particularly when used with HTTP) is a specific character string that constitutes a reference to a resource. Most web browsers display the URL of a web page above the page in an address bar. A typical URL might look like:

[//www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc3986.txt RFC 3986 (2005)] classifies URLs as a specific type of uniform resource identifier (URI), although many people use the two terms interchangeably.

The text presented in the popup is:

A uniform resource locator (abbreviated URL; also known as a web address, particularly when used with HTTP) is a specific character string that constitutes a reference to a resource. Most web browsers display the URL of a web page above the page in an address bar. A typical URL might look like: [//www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc3986.txt RFC 3986 (2005)] classifies URLs as a specific type of uniform resource identifier (URI), although many people use the two terms interchangeably.

The text immediately above is copied directly from the popup using pointer dragging. Here's how it looks (except for emboldening and blue text colour for links) as displayed in the popup:

A uniform resource locator (abbreviated URL; also known as a web address, particularly when used with HTTP) is a specific character string that constitutes a reference to a resource. Most web browsers display the URL of a web page above the page in an address bar. A typical URL might look like: [//www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc3986.txt RFC 3986 (2005)] classifies URLs as a specific type of uniform resource identifier (URI), although many people use the two terms interchangeably.

As you should be able to see by comparing the immediately preceding paragraph with the first quote above (from the actual article), the popup processor seems to have a problem with rendering the quoted URL ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page ) between tags - nothing appears in the popup for this markup. It then fails to render the following square bracket enclosed URL, [//www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc3986.txt RFC 3986 (2005)], as a link and conflates the two sentences into one - which is a tad confusing.

(If you have the navigation popup gadget enabled, try mousing over this Uniform Resource Locator link to see if you get the same result.)

In case this might be a browser specific problem. I'm using Chrome (Version 40.0.2214.93 m) in Windows 7.Hedles (talk) 10:19, 16 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Firefox 33.0.2 on Windows 7 does the same, at least until I opened the edit window, in which case there's no sign of any url in it. (Looking at the history, it appears to have been edited out between when I came across this thread and opened the edit box). <font style="text-shadow:0em 0em 0.75em #B87333;">Supernerd11 Firemind <font color="9F000F">^_^ Pokedex 17:10, 17 February 2015 (UTC)

Tech News: 2015-08
<section begin="technews-2015-W08"/> Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Software changes this week
 * The new version of MediaWiki has been on test wikis and MediaWiki.org since February 11. It will be on non-Wikipedia wikis from February 17. It will be on all Wikipedias from February 18 (calendar).
 * On Wednesday your Meta user page will be shown if you don't have a user page on a wiki.
 * You can now change the order of categories in VisualEditor using drag-and-drop.
 * In VisualEditor, you now need to make a change before you can "Apply Changes" to citations and templates.
 * The way the cursor moves in VisualEditor is changing. Your browser now handles the cursor directly. Most of you will see no change. In right-to-left text, the cursor now moves in a 'visible' rather than 'logical' way. This is like other sites but you may be surprised at first.​

Meetings
 * The VisualEditor Team had their first public bug triage meeting on February 11. They will post the results on the meeting page.
 * You can join the second weekly meeting with the VisualEditor team. During the meetings you can tell developers which bugs are the most important. The meeting will be on February 18 at 16:00 (UTC). See how to join.
 * You can join a meeting with the developers of the Content Translation tool. It will be on February 18 at 13:00 (UTC).

Future changes
 * You can comment on a proposal about abandoned Labs tools.

Tech news prepared by tech ambassadors and posted by bot • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe. <section end="technews-2015-W08"/> 17:57, 16 February 2015 (UTC)

Journalisted IDs

 * [Meta: I'm never sure whether requests like this belong at WP:BOTREQ, here, or elsewhere. I tried the former, but got no response]

Could somebody extract some data for me, please?

I need the Journalisted ID values from: UK MP links, UK Peer links and Journalisted, in a CSV (or Goggle spreadsheet or similar), with the corresponding Wikidata IDs. I'll then add the values to Wikidata. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 19:50, 16 February 2015 (UTC)

Wikipedia app on Windowsphone
Is it possible, on Windows Phone, to save Wikipedia articles so that they can be read offline (e.g. when no network connectivity is available)? With Wikipedia on PC an article can be saved as a .pdf file and read using Adobe Reader; such files are perfectly rendered by the Adobe Reader app on the phone but, being formatted for the "big screen", the text is much too small to read. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gareaves (talk • contribs) 22:58, 16 February 2015 (UTC)

Category:Androgynous Wikipedians
Category:Androgynous Wikipedians includes itself, causing pywikibot to go into endless recursion. I think I have found and fixed the problem, but it is still appearing after action=purge. Do we need to wait; for how long? John Vandenberg (chat) 04:01, 17 February 2015 (UTC)


 * It's fixed now. The category list at the bottom of a page is updated by a purge but the listing under "Pages in category" on the category page requires a null edit to update. PrimeHunter (talk) 05:00, 17 February 2015 (UTC)

SPI form
I don't know whether this is the right Help Desk for this query. I am having great difficulty filling in an SPI form. I have had no trouble before but that time I only had two sock-puppets to report. I have 18 IP sock-puppets this time and the sock-puppeteer to report and have prepared the evidence. I have followed the instructions at WP:SPI but nothing works. I have tried different methods. I think it is the list of IPs that is causing the problem. I have tried entering the numbers as the form indicates with |ip1=[number] etc, and then with *, but neither works. The list keeps duplicating or does not appear at all, the username of the sock-puppeteer does not show, and sometimes the evidence appears in the wrong place. These are the raw details I am trying to enter (ignoring any code there, of course.). I user IE11 and Windows 8.1. Can you help, please? ~ P-123 (talk) 11:20, 17 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Problem resolved, found help elsewhere. Instructions on how to fill in an SPI form could be clearer, IMO.  ~ P-123 (talk) 12:14, 17 February 2015 (UTC)

Note: SPI == Sockpuppet investigations for those of us who didn't know. --Ancheta Wis   (talk  &#124; contribs) 14:14, 17 February 2015 (UTC)

Consensus regarding a edit-protected request to
Well, currently we use whym's Whois tool which is still experimental and fails to display AfriNIC queries in the template. So, I prefer that we use an external source like domaintools which is way more reliable and informative. But as, has said, I need to establish consensus for the edit-protected request to get approved. Write Aye and Nay depending on your opinion and put forth your reason accordingly. -- QEDK ♠  T  ♥  C  16:17, 17 February 2015 (UTC)

Automatically substituting Template:Unsigned and friends
Would anyone object to automatic substitution of Template:Unsigned and other similar signature templates? There are almost 30,000 transclusions of them, so it would be better to make sure there is a consensus to do it before letting a bot loose on them. Please see the discussion at Template talk:Unsigned and the corresponding edit request here. — <span style="color: #194D00; font-family: Palatino, Times, serif">Mr. Stradivarius  ♪ talk ♪ 02:47, 4 February 2015 (UTC) I thought there was a consensus for this. I put a whole bunch of unsigned templates on a talk page, then tried to get bots to archive, and Clubot refused to archive the transcluded unsigned templates (thus, this is a real problem and not just cosmetic). When I posted about it at the bot's talk page, I was told that the bots behavior is intentional since the unsigned template should always be substituted, and the user then went the the talk page and substituted them all. So, to fix this, I put it in this bot's category, but the bot doesn't do it if there's over 100 transclusions. Unsigned has over 20,000, so it would be way too much work for a human. Oiyarbepsy (talk) 03:20, 4 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Yes, I object. This request not only assumes bad faith on the part of an editor who may have simply forgot or been unable to sign ( the ~ isn't available on all mobile devices and copy and past if you have edittools or charinsert isn't always easy ) it is also a change to the content of a discussion that isn't visibly apparent in the rendering and fails COSMETICBOT. I've commented as such and closed the edit request until there is a consensus which should've been obtained first. —   03:21, 4 February 2015 (UTC)
 * How does it assume bad faith? The templates are already there, so I don't see how substituting them makes any kind of statement about the editors who made the posts.   ekips <b style="color: #162">39</b> 05:59, 4 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Does anyone know the rationale for (a) us wanting all these occurrences to be substituted, (b) the bot not wanting to perform too many substitutions at once? Is the latter due to fear of temporarily overloading the system, though the end result is still desirable? EdJohnston (talk) 04:25, 4 February 2015 (UTC)
 * I'm not aware of any special rationale for (a), although with this kind of template the reason for substing is usually to make sure that users are guaranteed to see the message as it was originally sent. (If the message is not substed, and someone changes the template after the message is sent, it could look completely different to what the sender intended.) As for (b), this is to prevent vandals from maliciously substing templates with thousands of transclusions, as reverting all the edits would take a disproportionate amount of time and effort. The edits themselves don't put much strain on the system; they are (I think) done at the rate of 6-10 a minute, a similar rate to other bots. This means that while the system load wouldn't be very high, a run of 30,000 substitutions would take a few days to complete. — <span style="color: #194D00; font-family: Palatino, Times, serif">Mr. Stradivarius  ♪ talk ♪ 06:31, 4 February 2015 (UTC)
 * SmackBot, which was operated by Rich Farmbrough, used to do this work; here's an [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Jimbo_Wales/Archive_13&diff=390522345&oldid=382058439 example]. Graham 87 08:32, 4 February 2015 (UTC)
 * As far as (a) goes, I assume this to be the dating; a transcluded template containing the current date will always contain the (now) current time (it doesn't, off course, because of bugs/reasons, but it does after an action=purge), while the substituted template will have the time of substitution. Martijn Hoekstra (talk) 13:16, 4 February 2015 (UTC)
 * I'd thought (a) in this case was mainly to make pages render faster for the server for templates that would be transcluded probably hundreds of thousands of times without subst:, especially if User:SineBot didn't add them substituted. These templates were almost added to Anomie's auto subst list in 2012; only a lack of interested admins at the time prevented it. &#8209;&#8209; xensyria T 15:13, 4 February 2015 (UTC)
 * It's a pretty minor issue either way. But I would be perfectly willing to restart this task, should circumstances permit.  All the best: Rich Farmbrough, 18:34, 4 February 2015 (UTC).


 * {{subst:unsigned}} is less readable than unsigned, so I think that {{subst:unsigned}} should be deprecated instead. Any bots which can't handle unsigned should be corrected. --Stefan2 (talk) 23:53, 4 February 2015 (UTC)

Should unsigned templates be substituted
Sounds like we need an answer to the basic question here. I see three options: Hopefully we can get this resolved. Oiyarbepsy (talk) 01:43, 5 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Substitute All unsigned templates should be substituted. Bots should substitute any transcluded versions, so these templates need to be added to Anomiebot's list.
 * Transclude All unsigned templates should be transcluded. Archiving bots will needs to be updated to ensure they can read a transcluded unsigned template
 * Who cares? It doesn't matter. We still would need to change the archive bots, though.
 * Substitute, substitute them, Anomie's unsigned script substitute them, and there is no difference on substituting and transcluding. I don't think making archivebots to read Unsigned is good idea. &mdash; <span style="color:green;font-family:Courier new, serif;font-variant:small-caps">Revi  04:38, 5 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Substitute, no point in transcluding as autosigs never need updating. Transcluding only adds to transclusion depth thus slows down rendering, especially on archived talk pages. (also fixed wrong word.)  12:13, 5 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Transclude at least for 7 days before substituting. Immediate substituting implies bad faith on the part of the OP and they should have a chance to go back and remove the template adding their own three tilde signature. Good faith new users may see the template being substituted as a permanent red mark on their editing.  This is different than how sinebot does it because sinebot leaves a notice on the user's talk page explaining the situation and teaching the user how to fix the situation. Alternatively this is another case of the perennial Wikipedia talk:Signatures which has been rejected by the community multiple times. —   14:20, 5 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Technical, I'm just not buying the bad faith argument. If there is an element of bad faith, it's not in the bot that substitutes the template, but in the human user that places it in the first place (since our signing bots substitute it). And having one bot transclude it and another bot substitute 7 days later seem entirely ridiculous to me. Now, on the other hand, if you want the signing bot to wait before signing, that addresses your argument, but we're not talking about signing posts, we're talking about modifying posts already signed. Oiyarbepsy (talk) 15:30, 5 February 2015 (UTC)
 * If you're really worried about making the editor unhappy, then I think the more important point would be to change the bot signature to say something like  rather than the current display, which says Ha, ha!  User:Example doesn't know how to sign comments! .  WhatamIdoing (talk) 00:22, 12 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Substitute. I don't see any need to include a delay as suggested immediately above; for one bot actions aren't instant, except for those bots reversing vandalism. Mostly it should be substituted when first added anyway. Getting a bot to do it gives the OP more time to correct it. Not that they can't easily correct the final substituted version, by editing the HTML or undoing (e.g.) AnomieBot's action before replacing the template.-- JohnBlackburne words<sub style="margin-left:-2.0ex;">deeds 14:40, 5 February 2015 (UTC)
 * It's a lot harder for new users to figure out how to replace substituted HTML then a template. I've seen it done and it has resulted in half the page being left with an open  tag but no close which breaks half the page. —   15:03, 5 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Then someone will fix it. Saying something should not be changed because a subsequent edit might break things is a recipe for making no changes at all, or at least no changes that introduce relatively complex HTML/Wikicode. So no adding CSS to tables for example.-- JohnBlackburne words<sub style="margin-left:-2.0ex;">deeds 15:25, 5 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Substitute: the exception being if parameters are left out because whoever added it hasn't bothered to look up the timestamp or whatnot (like Unsigned-unk; these should all be added to a hidden category if they aren't already). Would be simpler for bot design and debugging, and should lower server-load. Temporary transclusion for a fixed time before this isn't a bad idea though, and wouldn't be a problem for archive-bots or server-load. &#8209;&#8209; xensyria T 15:33, 5 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Substitute &mdash; I don't feel there's a truly compelling reason to transclude at this point. The template is unlikely to ever be significantly changed (and really hasn't been, historically), doesn't need to blend in with generalized UI changes, and doesn't need to dynamically add or remove categories (or update text based on dynamic conditions). On top of all of this, every bot, script, and tool that makes use of it would need to then account for the new format as well as the old, plus enforcing transclusion (i.e., transforming a substitution into a transclusion) in an automated way is a giant pain in the ass inevitably fraught with bugs. :P Overall, seems to be an unnecessary hassle for more people than it's hypothetically&mdash;and I'm not sure how, hypothetically&mdash;it's supposed to help in any significant way. -- slakr \ talk / 04:25, 6 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Transclude A transclusion creates shorter wikicode, making it easier to read the source. --Stefan2 (talk) 11:36, 6 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Substitute: no legitimate reason to change the signature after signing; reduces server load and prevents any future tampering. BethNaught (talk) 11:41, 6 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Exactly, it prevents tampering in a way that suggests to new editors that they are not allowed fix it to what their actual signature is and in doing so assumes bad faith that editors are all of a sudden intentionally not posting their signature and fully automated signatures for all posts need to be done to prevent increased disruption to the encyclopedia. —  11:49, 6 February 2015 (UTC)
 * You know very well that I meant it prevented tampering with the template as opposed to the signature. If a new editor knows how to sign, I would have thought they would know how to resign. The template is not about assuming bad faith, it's about being helpful when people accidentally forget. I really can't understand why anyone would take offence at a bot signing when they had forgotten. Your deduction that editors are all of a sudden intentionally not posting their signature and fully automated signatures for all posts need to be done to prevent increased disruption to the encyclopedia simply doesn't logically follow. Also, my name is not Beth. BethNaught (talk) 11:54, 6 February 2015 (UTC)

PAGE''' ]]) 18:46, 10 February 2015 (UTC)
 * You might be interested in this post: Wikipedia talk:Signatures Oiyarbepsy (talk) 15:37, 6 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Substitute per Slakr. No reason for the signature to be changed after the template goes on the page. APerson (talk!) 15:59, 6 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Substitute per Slakr. --I am  k6ka  Talk to me!   See what I have done  02:30, 9 February 2015 (UTC)
 * There should be no need to change the archive bots, to my understanding. But if the result of this discussion is to substitute them, we should set up a lua module to remove left-to-right marks in order to address this. →<font color="#BA0000">Σ <font color="#036">σ <font color="#036">ς . (Sigma) 02:59, 9 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Substitute In general, templates used in talk page discussions should be subst:ed whenever possible to avoid a future change to the template changing archived discussions. I don't see any compelling reason to transclude, and subst:ing isn't assuming bad faith. --Ahecht ([[User_talk:Ahecht|<span style="color:#FFF;background:#00f;display:inline-block;padding:1px 1px 0;vertical-align:-0.3em;line-height:1;font-size:62.5%;text-align:center;">'''TALK

nbsp
Is there a way to replace all "& nbsp ;" with   throughout Wikipedia? The first one is hard on editors - hard to read and easy to get wrong. Bubba73 You talkin' to me? 20:09, 12 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Please, no. is two characters longer, and not all bots or scripts recognise it, whereas all recognise   -- Red rose64 (talk) 20:14, 12 February 2015 (UTC)
 * And it creates which can break things when used in other templates. --   Gadget850talk 20:28, 12 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Then why do we have  ?  I thought it was replacing the bad version (from HTML?).  Bubba73 You talkin' to me? 23:49, 12 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Presumably by "from HTML" you mean the  entity. Why do you describe this as the "bad version"? There is nothing wrong with it; it is recognised by every browser (except possibly some from 20+ years ago); and indeed, that entity is at the core of, so if   was in some way "bad", then disguising it in a template must be just as bad, if not worse.
 * Anyway, exists because it was created and hasn't (yet) been taken to TFD. The original documentation said "template to minimize code used for multiple consecutive non-breaking spaces", which sounds like a primary reason that it was created. The template still does that - given a parameter (and used in carefully supervised conditions), it can reduce the amount of wiki markup - if you want four non-breaking spaces, you can use  instead of  . But used without a parameter, it is pointless, much less efficient than the entity, and breaks certain bots, scripts and templates (such as the citation templates). -- Red rose64 (talk) 09:16, 13 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Yes, the HTML version is what I call the bad version. I can remember to open and close with a pair of curly braces, but I can't remember the format of the HTML version.  It is easy for the editor to get wrong and if there is no space between it and the text to the sides, it makes reading the text difficult for the editor.  And it is not pointless without a parameter - it makes it easier for the editors to edit and not make mistakes. Bubba73 You talkin' to me? 00:36, 14 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Where would there be a legitimate use for multiple non-breaking spaces? Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 21:07, 14 February 2015 (UTC)


 * For consistent spacing, where some browsers make adjustments with multiple regular spaces. (Sorry, don't recall specfic instances.) Or for indenting the first line of a paragraph. If the "&amp;xxx;" format is too hard then that is a problem with all html entities, not just this one. Not something that is likely to get "fixed". ~ J. Johnson (JJ) (talk) 21:30, 14 February 2015 (UTC)
 * ┌0000000000000000000┘
 * Not exactly "legit", but I often use &amp;nbsp; in tables instead of convoluted styles I don't know by heart, recent example. –Be..anyone (talk) 01:40, 17 February 2015 (UTC)
 * This is the craziest template I've ever seen on all Wikipedias. I can't believe that there are so much Interwiki-links. I can not imagine any real useful case for the template⁉ PS: If more than one space is needed, for example " " can do the same,  is here completely useless (Lua here is fully overdone). Anyway this is also an hack against wiki-syntax.<kbd style="white-space:nowrap;color:#567"> → User: Perhelion  11:57, 16 February 2015 (UTC)


 * The one with the braces is more readable and easily remembered for editors. Bubba73 You talkin' to me? 02:34, 18 February 2015 (UTC)
 * It is certainly true that is wiki-markup, and &amp;nbsp; is HTML.  It is also true that, in general, we discourage raw HTML, as  we don't want our editors to have to learn HTML.  It is not true that all bots and scripts understand &amp;nbsp;. The span could well be removed from the template.  I would not support a task to convert from one form to the other, though I would not oppose the change being done when other edits were being done.  All the best: Rich Farmbrough, 11:35, 18 February 2015 (UTC).

Is anybody bothered that readership stats for Wiki are haywire ?
I have been following Wiki readership stats for over two years. I recently established that Wikipedia readership levels had seemed to have halved over 2 years by comparing https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:WikiProject_Psychology/Popular_pages&oldid=533632110 with: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Psychology/Popular_pages. I am sure that readership levels in reality have actually increased over this time. I suspect that the stats are wrong by about a factor of 4. It seems a very plausible theory that mobile views are not being included and there may be another mysterious factor to do with "load shedding". Is Wikipedia so short of cash that this cannot be fixed ? Surely people want to know how Wikipedia readership levels are doing ?

See: User_talk:Mr.Z-man

--Penbat (talk) 12:38, 14 February 2015 (UTC)


 * The outside measurement of usage stats are pretty well maintained. The switchover to the new toolserver may also be a factor in following the stats. Aside from looking at comScore, etc, do you follow the new toolserver? LawrencePrincipe (talk) 13:48, 14 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Is this related to above? -- Red rose64 (talk) 15:20, 14 February 2015 (UTC)
 * It relates to the same set of data but a less important side issue, a few days recently have had no data at all, see eg: http://stats.grok.se/en/latest/Psychopathy_in_the_workplace This seems to happen occasionally but does not explain the huge reduction in user stats over the last two years in general. --Penbat (talk) 20:41, 14 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Oh i see Village_pump_(technical) and Wikipedia_Signpost/2014-09-17/News_and_notes is relevant.--Penbat (talk) 21:04, 14 February 2015 (UTC)

This is generally thought to be (mainly) because of Google putting the first chunk of the Wikipedia article on their pages. All the best: Rich Farmbrough, 12:06, 18 February 2015 (UTC).

Regular expression matching first sentence of an article?
I need a regular expression with which to extract the first sentence of any article from its wikitext, ignoring and removing all reference citations, templates, and images. Please help. EllenCT (talk) 16:01, 15 February 2015 (UTC)
 * I think Popups does something sort of like that. You should see how it does it. Jackmcbarn (talk) 19:29, 15 February 2015 (UTC)


 * This is not really a job for rock solid regular expressions. For example  Now the way I type it you can see  the end of the sentence is a "." followed by two " ", but if you are just looking for   you will break it after "...Dr."


 * That aside you could get a pretty good chance of having the first sentence if you use something like


 * You should then repeatedly remove the stuff you don't want:



(Alternatively, and probably better, remove the cruft from the page first, then look at the first sentence as simply )

Note that this will leave sentences like "The Taj Mahal at over high, is the world's tallest building." because the units are in a  template.


 * HTH. All the best: Rich Farmbrough, 12:53, 18 February 2015 (UTC).


 * What is the context? I could craft a regex that would have a good chance of working in one hit. All the best: Rich Farmbrough, 13:04, 18 February 2015 (UTC).

Echo is not working
Echo notifications are not working or only working sporadically. It's happening all over the place in the last three days. In all the cases I've seen, the formatting was correct and the comment was signed at the same time the user-to-be-pinged's name was linked. It still doesn't work. Voceditenore (talk) 17:45, 15 February 2015 (UTC)
 * , another thread for the pile. -- Red rose64 (talk) 14:07, 16 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Yes, echo is really not working as expressed at Kudpung's talk page.  As echo is not working then how is it  possible that your ping to Quiddity will work?  Jim  Car  ter  14:33, 16 February 2015 (UTC)
 * It definitely is working, since your post just now notified me. -- Red rose64 (talk) 14:34, 16 February 2015 (UTC)
 * I haven't got your ping, .  Jim Car ter  15:13, 16 February 2015 (UTC)
 * That one also notified me. It must be something to do with your settings at . -- Red rose64 (talk) 15:15, 16 February 2015 (UTC)
 * I don't think so. A week ago everything was fine, it is very unreasonable that there is a problem in my preferences when I haven't changed anything.  Jim  Car  ter  15:28, 16 February 2015 (UTC)
 * The developers have been investigating various reports for the last few weeks. (See T78424, and linked blockers). They've been changing the signature-recognition code to account for various edge-cases. Please link me to any (recent) specific diffs, that should've but didn't, trigger an echo notification, so that I can add them to the list of fresh examples. (Jim, I've already tracked down the two at kudpung's page which you refer to. It looks like the  in his signature might be the problem, which they're already working on. Thanks :) --Quiddity (WMF) (talk) 20:01, 16 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Here are two pings to me which did not generate a notification. The user has  in their signature. 13 February 2015 + 17 February 2015. Please ask for some feedback to be added to the tool ("2 notifications sent" like "your edit was saved") because even when glitches like #top are fixed, people are going to edit a notification in their post and will never know that their edit failed. Johnuniq (talk) 08:15, 17 February 2015 (UTC)
 * In the "Message from Eddielawrocks" thread on my talk page, there two pings that didn't work. I pinged MelanieN, and she only saw it when monitoring my talk page, and George8211 also pinged Melanie in that thread, but as he didn't sign his post, that might upset the ping. I've got a niggling feeling that that has an effect, but I definitely signed my post. There again, as both these involve, and she has found others not getting through, there could be a problem there. Peridon (talk) 12:22, 17 February 2015 (UTC)
 * I am finding it to be intermittent. As Peridon said, I did not receive this ping: . The other ping he mentions failed because the user did not sign his post. There were a couple of other failures in recent days, where the edit WAS signed but I did not get the ping; sorry, I can't find them right now, because (obviously) they are not in my Alerts log. However, multiple pings today have worked, including the one in this thread. --MelanieN (talk) 12:44, 17 February 2015 (UTC)


 * This, This, and this all around 14 February didn't work. I seem to be getting pings now, although I have no way of knowing which ones I didn't get. User:Quiddity (WMF) are you getting this ping? Best, Voceditenore (talk) 15:49, 17 February 2015 (UTC)
 * The task for creating a popup-feedback message about # of mentions sent, is T68078 (with a few details there about the difficulties to do with preference-privacy and the optional opt-out settings, making it impossible for us to be told exactly who was successfully "mentioned").
 * , yup, we have to sign the post in the same edit as the mentions, and a few other requirements described at mw:Manual:Echo; this is to avoid false-positives when refactoring, manual archiving, etc.
 * I did get your ping here. That second example you linked would not have worked, because "The diff hunk must be recognised as an addition of new content, not a change to existing content." per above link.
 * Thanks, all. As noted at the task, a patch is currently going through code-review, and will hopefully go live a.s.a.p. Quiddity (WMF) (talk) 17:57, 17 February 2015 (UTC)
 * The patch has just been pushed live. Please ping me with any further issues. (Here, or WT:Notifications, or my talkpage). Thanks. Quiddity (WMF) (talk) 00:21, 18 February 2015 (UTC)

Extremely long list article
I generally use Google Chrome Version 40.0.2214.111 (64-bit) on a 2 year old MacBook Pro.

I'm working on a project to include photos for every entry on List of municipalities in Pennsylvania, which has 2562 municipalities plus a dozen or 2 entries for places in 2 counties. My major concern is whether a 2600 entry table can be read and edited and saved. The table is very simple in its structure with almost no links or templates. It does sort very quickly.

I've worked with large tables for a long time with WP:NRHP but a few years ago a large table was considered to be 300 entries, which we'd then split up.

So far the table is easily edited (I'm half-way thru adding the pics), but for entries numbered over 2100 I have to wait just a second before typing "|100px]]" after copying in the photo's name - no big deal. Saving is also easy and may have gotten better since November. I'm wondering how well editing will go if I add links to the municipalities, or a template for coords.

There also is a style question here. Can a table so large be used by readers? It probably can't be browsed usefully in the way most tables are, but with sorting and or Cntl-F searching it works great for me. Loading is also no problem for me, but I'm wondering how well it might work for other readers, especially on mobile.

Any suggestions or comments appreciated.

Smallbones( smalltalk ) 16:54, 16 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Two thoughts occur to me.


 * I agree that when the table is fully populated it may pose some burdens, but I'll leave it to others to determine whether those burdens are two much. I have fairly fast access, and note that when I just tried to edit it, I had some problems.


 * One suggestion is to group the municipalities by county and have a separate table for each county.


 * As a second suggestion you might look at List_of_current_NCAA_Division_I_women%27s_basketball_coaches. It is a table with 351 entries. However, if you choose to edit any entry, instead of editing the whole table, you edit one conference. I didn't set it up, someone helped me with the setup, but it makes it much faster to edit an individual entry, while preserving the single table view. You could do it by county, but have the county breakdown invisible to the reader; only the editors would see it.-- S Philbrick (Talk)  17:34, 16 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the suggestions. I'm loathe to break up the list, partially because there are multiple lists already, e.g. one for cities and boroughs, another for townships, another for CDPs, another for unincorporated settlements. This list is the largest one and allows comparisons between types.  My purpose in using this one is that so much (including the photos) gets to be seen together in an orderly way.
 * The coaches list is very impressive, but I'm wondering if all the templates would prevent that list from getting up to 2600 rows? My experience suggests that a lot of templates slows things down, but I don't know for sure.  What slows uploading and sorting the most? I'd guess templates, then photos, then ordinary links, but I don't know.  So far - half way through the list, photos don't seem to be slowing it down at all!  Perhaps there is some new technology that I haven't been aware of, or maybe, just over the course of 3-4 years everything speeds up beyond recognition?  Smallbones( smalltalk ) 19:42, 18 February 2015 (UTC)


 * This page was at the time, the largest table on Wikipedia.  It seemed to function with no problems.  Saving was not instant.  There were, however, another several hundred references to be added.  All the best: Rich Farmbrough, 14:02, 18 February 2015 (UTC).


 * Thats an interesting list no matter how you look at it! I don't really have to add any refs (maybe one for everything), but would like to link directly to each municipality, and maybe even adding a coord template 2600 times. So far I've just assumed that the coords will be beyond reach.  Smallbones( smalltalk ) 19:42, 18 February 2015 (UTC)

MediaViewer "broken"?
I am very puzzled, and it is driving me crazy... On today's main page, the image of Jafar Panafi does not trigger the media viewer. I can find nothing different from any of the other images that work just fine. What magic is preventing the MV to trigger on that particular image??? 10:07, 17 February 2015 (UTC)
 * My guess is because it's actually File:Jafar Panahi, Cines del Sur 2007-1 (cropped).jpg, using link to link it to File:Jafar Panahi, Cines del Sur 2007-1.jpg. MV may be refusing to mess with images using link. Anomie⚔ 13:34, 17 February 2015 (UTC)
 * That makes sense. Still, it does come across as 'broken'. I think MV could be smart enough to open the non-cropped version if the image links to another image (and partially matches the filename).  14:26, 17 February 2015 (UTC)
 * (ec)No, please don't! MV's primarily failure IMO was that when it wasn't sure of what to show, it tried to show the best it could, which resulted in doing the wrong thing in some cases. When in doubt, MV should fall back to just giving up, rather than trying to make an intelligent guess of what should happen. Sure, if it can be made to recognize this case with full certainty, it could be handled, but when in doubt, bail and fall back to known good behavior. That's exactly what's happening here, and exactly what should happen. Martijn Hoekstra (talk) 14:31, 17 February 2015 (UTC)
 * (edit conflict) I haven't found it documented at mw:Help:Extension:Media Viewer or elsewhere but it certainly makes sense. The first image below has the link code currently produced by Template:ITN and skips Media Viewer. The second omits the link parameter and activates Media Viewer. The third and fourth also omit the link parameter but use the two methods at mw:Help:Extension:Media Viewer They skip Media Viewer as expected.  PrimeHunter (talk) 14:28, 17 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Too bad this doesn't work inside the image syntax.  15:22, 17 February 2015 (UTC)
 * A serious flaw of that method is that you need to specify both ends of the link - the page you're linking from as well as the one that you're linking to. -- Red rose64 (talk) 22:45, 17 February 2015 (UTC)
 * You need to specify the image to open and the page on top of which it should be opened. The page containing the link does not need to be specified. If you want to use the current page, you can always just use . --Tgr (WMF) (talk) 23:44, 17 February 2015 (UTC)

In general, activating Meda Viewer on an image with  would be a bad idea. Such images are explicitly meant to take the user somewhere else, and are most often used on icons and logos and such. When someone clicks on such an image, seeing it enlarged is the last thing they want.

Special-casing images linking to other images is T75902; no one is working on Media Viewer ATM though, apart from fixing regressions. --Tgr (WMF) (talk) 23:44, 17 February 2015 (UTC)
 * (Added link= to the Media Viewer documentation. --Tgr (WMF) (talk) 23:52, 17 February 2015 (UTC))

no space to add text to edit summary- due to Tamil characters used within a username?
I noticed something odd when I went to revert an edit. I expected to be able to leave a comment about my edit in the edit summary box but could not do so initially. In this instance the default addition of text to the edit summary box meant the box was already full, with the result being that none of the characters that I was trying to type would appear in the edit box. Strangely there didn't seem to be a long text string displayed on-screen (which I might expect to see if the edit summary box was full of text characters). The user who had left the edit I was trying to revert was User:தென்காசி_சுப்பிரமணியன் Their name was displayed as Tenkasi Subramanian when they wrote on my user page but it looked as though it was only the Tamil characters that were shown in the edit box summary. This editor had been upset that I had not left an explanation of my actions. I went back and made a similar reversion, and this time was able to leave a small amount of text in the edit summary field, but only after deleting some of the pre-filled text. Could this to do with how MediaWiki deals with Tamil letters, characters and unicode? Is this a known issue? Drchriswilliams (talk) 22:11, 17 February 2015 (UTC)
 * It appears that you're hitting the 255 byte limit in the edit summary because of the UTF-8 characters (See Help:Edit summary). The edit summary automatically places <tt> </tt> in the box which is 138 bytes on it's own, but only 54 characters. If you then add on the link to their talk as <tt> </tt> (85 bytes/43 characters) then you're up to 223 bytes before any spacing or message. Nanonic (talk) 23:24, 17 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Yes, the number of bytes in the username was the problem. You can simply delete part or all of the prefilled edit summary so you get room for your own. You could for example reduce it to "Undid revision by தென்காசி சுப்பிரமணியன்". PrimeHunter (talk) 00:21, 18 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Sounds like T6715. --AKlapper (WMF) (talk) 10:38, 18 February 2015 (UTC)

Using a photo on he:
I found this image on he:. I'd quite like to add it to Menachem Banitt, but can't work out how to do it. Any advice? --Dweller (talk) 09:22, 18 February 2015 (UTC)
 * It's released under PD-self, so assuming that permission is correct, the best answer would be for the file to be moved from he-wiki to Commons and then it could be used anywhere. Nthep (talk) 09:40, 18 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I have no idea how to do that. --Dweller (talk) 09:50, 18 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Template:Copy_to_Wikimedia_Commons seems to have a version on the Hebrew WP, he:תבנית:העברה_לוויקישיתוף. If you add that and have a global account then anyone with questions could get back to you.-- JohnBlackburne words<sub style="margin-left:-2.0ex;">deeds 10:11, 18 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I'll slap that on the image page. --Dweller (talk) 10:35, 18 February 2015 (UTC)
 * That might take some time: he:קטגוריה:תמונות להעברה לוויקישיתוף is backlogged, having over 4,000 files waiting to be moved. But it's not as bad as our own which (taking its subcategories into account) has a backlog of about 300,000. -- Red rose64 (talk) 13:56, 18 February 2015 (UTC)
 * If it's urgent (see above), you could try asking an active editor in Category:User he to help with an immediate manual transfer. GermanJoe (talk) 18:10, 18 February 2015 (UTC)

Thanks all. --Dweller (talk) 20:41, 18 February 2015 (UTC)

Move log
Anyone know an answer to my question here? -- pretty IittIe Iiar 12:57, 18 February 2015 (UTC)
 * The answers seem to be accumulating at Help desk. -- Red rose64 (talk) 13:49, 18 February 2015 (UTC)

Unblock requests and = signs
When a user puts pairs of = signs around their templated request for unblocking (yes, some of them do...). the only way of editing the request is via the whole page edit button, as the section edit buttons won't give access to the request, displaying nothing after the first pair of = signs - in the edit window (the page displays perfectly in normal view). The last case I've seen (out of quite a lot - WHY do they do it?) was at User talk:Infomatrixinc. Once the = signs are removed, the bottom of the page goes back to normal. Is there a purpose in this, or is it just one of those things that no-one's bothered to report before? Peridon (talk) 13:26, 18 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Permalink. How bizarre; I've never seen this before.  This has to be a bug: I've never before seen a situation in which a section edit link is prevented from appearing by anything except the no-edit-section magic word.  Nyttend (talk) 13:31, 18 February 2015 (UTC)
 * The template breaks the line so you don't get a valid section heading  on the same line. That means The first   just becomes rendered before the template and the last   after the template. The whole thing should become an addition to the previous section and can be edited by editing that. PrimeHunter (talk) 13:38, 18 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Permalinks never have section edit links so it cannot be tested on Nyttend's Permalink. If you did try editing the previous section and the edit box stopped the text too soon then I guess the section edit software doesn't discover that the following heading is broken. PrimeHunter (talk) 13:43, 18 February 2015 (UTC)
 * "Permalinks never have section edit links" Huh?  See https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?oldid=647703833; it has section edit links for me, at least right now.  Nyttend (talk) 13:47, 18 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Permalinks have section edit links only if they are the current revision. -- Red rose64 (talk) 13:48, 18 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Right, I should have said old revisions. PrimeHunter (talk) 13:53, 18 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Hm, I'd forgotten that; thank you. However, PrimeHunter and Redrose64, see my talk page; I added the unblock template from Infomatrixinc's talk page (changing the username and the rationale, but not the formatting), and that revision is the latest to my talk page.  It still doesn't have the edit-section link in the unblock section, even though the links are present in other sections.  Nyttend (talk) 13:54, 18 February 2015 (UTC)
 * It behaves as my second post indicated. The page rendering software expands the template which breaks the section heading syntax so the unblock "section" is not actually a section but becomes part of the previous section, like my below example "This is not a section heading" where I manually added newlines to break the heading. The section editing software for the previous section apparently stops at the next source line of form  without discovering whether the   part breaks the section heading. PrimeHunter (talk) 14:31, 18 February 2015 (UTC)

= This is not a section heading

=


 * The false section at the botom of User talk:Nyttend can be edited by clicking edit at the previous section and manually changing the section number in the url, currently from https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Nyttend&action=edit&section=65 to https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Nyttend&action=edit&section=66. PrimeHunter (talk) 14:43, 18 February 2015 (UTC)


 * The question of "why are people doing this" is relevant; is there a block notice of some sort that recommends this broken syntax? --jpgordon:==( o ) 15:03, 18 February 2015 (UTC)
 * I just assume they're using the new-section tab and pasting the template in the Subject/headline field too. &mdash;Cryptic 15:46, 18 February 2015 (UTC)

Labs tools
Which is the best page to report a problem with some labs tool, if the maintainer (author) of it is kind of retired? -- Edgars2007  (talk/contribs) 19:53, 18 February 2015 (UTC)
 * There isn't any place, really. At the moment, there's no process for someone getting access to/taking over a tool run by an inactive user, short of getting the source code and setting up a fork. Mr.Z-man 20:39, 18 February 2015 (UTC)
 * But can't I report to some WMF technical stuff about some problem, so it can be fixed? For some reasons I don't want to reveal which is the tool (yes, I know, it is kind of stange etc., but we all Wikipedians are somehow strange :) ), but if I can send e-mail to somebody, then I would be glad to do that :) -- Edgars2007  (talk/contribs) 20:49, 18 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Update: sent email to Δ. -- Edgars2007  (talk/contribs) 21:49, 18 February 2015 (UTC)
 * As it happens there is a fresh RfC Abandoned Labs tools on Meta, share your ideas there, please. –Be..anyone (talk) 00:25, 19 February 2015 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure was the best person to report it to, although I respect his technical ability.  Please see the RfC mentioned above on meta and wikiviewstats has been migrated into xtools if that was the tool you are talking about and once the above RfC is closed, I plan on requesting being added to bibleversefinder (or maybe even sooner). —   02:01, 19 February 2015 (UTC)

Spurious vandalism warnings
Hi everyone,

It seems that User:BTP51 has been receiving vandalism warnings for edits he hasn't made, but he's using a home IP address (background information here). Is there any advice we can give him, or anything that can be done on our end? Thanks, <font color="FF6600"><font face="Times New Roman">Sunrise  <font size="1.8">(talk)  08:30, 19 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Just dynamic IP address. I have commented and reassured. &mdash; Martin (MSGJ · talk) 09:05, 19 February 2015 (UTC)

apihighlimits
Can someone just confirm something for me please. If I want the apihighlimits user right, are the only ways of getting it to become a Bureaucrat, an Administrator or to get a Bot account? Because, to be honest, I don't want to be a Bureaucrat or an Administrator, and I can't see the point in creating a bot account that is only going to be used to read data and never edit. I just want to continue to Gnome away in the background with AWB, a task that is becoming harder due to the the growing size of Wikipedia and the 25,000 article limit in AWB. - X201 (talk) 11:46, 18 February 2015 (UTC)
 * According to Special:ListGroupRights, you need to be a bot, administrator or "researcher". Bureaucrats don't actually have this permission (but they usually also happen to be administrators). Matma Rex talk 12:11, 18 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Add researcher to the list of things I don't want to be as well :-) Looks like applying for a pointless Bot is my only route forward. - X201 (talk) 12:19, 18 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Out of interest, and possibly improving the situation, what is your usecase? Martijn Hoekstra (talk) 12:48, 18 February 2015 (UTC)
 * There is also a global group for higher API limit ('API high limit requestors'). Ruslik_ Zero 20:45, 18 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Cool: I was going to suggest a "Gnome" group with that right... because I too ran into that problem today, with Category:Living people. All the best: Rich Farmbrough, 20:54, 18 February 2015 (UTC).


 * Yes, if you want to become an "API high limit requestor" you would have to apply at Meta by following the instructions at Steward_requests/Global_permissions. At the moment, there are only 5 bots and no non-bot users in this group. However, there's no harm to try asking for the permission to see whether they are willing to grant it. — This, that and the other (talk) 00:20, 19 February 2015 (UTC)


 * I personally think this right should be added to the existing group or as part of a new admin-tech/interface-editor/sysop group that would be the next level of of TE.  I look forward to someone making that proposal in a productive manner that will get community support. —   01:58, 19 February 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for pointing out the Global possibility, I didn't realise that was another way of attacking this. I agree with and in that we need the ability for this user right to be handed out through other methods. Under the current arrangements, obtaining this user right feels like the Month Python Spam sketch, you've got to become an Admin and have delete, undelete, block, unblock, protected move, user right granting and removal and bulk vandalism removal, regardless of whether you want them or not. Looking at the archive of PumpTech, a new group has been mooted several times before but never really got off the ground. I can't see any reason why the right can't be added to a new "Gnome" group, or an existing technically orientated group like Template Editors, but I suppose someone will have an objection of some sort. - X201 (talk) 15:48, 19 February 2015 (UTC)

CatScan
Is there a status page for CatScan? It was working this morning, but now appears to be dead. - X201 (talk) 16:11, 18 February 2015 (UTC)
 * See m:User_talk:Duesentrieb/CatScan. Ruslik_ Zero 20:40, 18 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks. It now appears to be back (sort of) - X201 (talk) 16:42, 19 February 2015 (UTC)

joanjoc
Hi there from fr, I want to know if someone know what happen with this tool, particularly the "Suggest articles from interwikis" option ? It didn't work for me, showing the message "Can't connect to local MySQL server through socket '/var/run/mysqld/mysqld.sock' (2)ERROR: No result returned." Thank you ! --Simon Villeneuve (talk) 11:40, 18 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Have you already tried to contact its maintainer? --AKlapper (WMF) (talk) 10:56, 19 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Someone have done it February 7. We also tried to contact The Master of the masters, but nothing for now. Simon Villeneuve (talk) 21:14, 19 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Someone have done it February 7. We also tried to contact The Master of the masters, but nothing for now. Simon Villeneuve (talk) 21:14, 19 February 2015 (UTC)

Tool comparing edits of different editors
I vaguely remember I once saw a tool which could compare the articles and pages two different users have edited, giving a breakdown of where they coincide. Anyone know what I'm referring to? --Dweller (talk) 17:13, 19 February 2015 (UTC)
 * http://tools.wmflabs.org/sigma/editorinteract.py 78.146.24.68 (talk) 17:29, 19 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Ooh, that was fast, thank you! --Dweller (talk) 23:09, 19 February 2015 (UTC)

Structured Data on Commons update
Greetings,

After a delay in updates to the Structured data on Commons project, I wanted to catch you up with what has been going on over the past three months. In short: The project is on hold, but that doesn't mean nothing is happening.

The meeting in Berlin in October provided the engineering teams with a lot to start on. Unfortunately the Structured Data on Commons project was put on hold not too long after this meeting. Development of the actual Structured data system for Commons will not begin until more resources can be allocated to it.

The Wikimedia Foundation and Wikimedia Germany have been working to improve the Wikidata query process on the back-end. This is designed to be a production-grade replacement of WikidataQuery integrated with search. The full project is described at Mediawiki.org.This will benefit the structured data project greatly since developing a high-level search for Commons is a desired goal of this project.

The Wikidata development team is working on the arbitrary access feature. Currently it's only possible to access items that are connected to the current page. So for example on Vincent van Gogh you can access the statements on Q5582, but you can't access these statements on c:Category:Vincent van Gogh or c:Creator:Vincent van Gogh. With arbitrary access enabled on Commons we no longer have this limitation. This opens up the possibility to use Wikidata data on Creator, Institution, Authority control and other templates instead of duplicating the data (what we do now). This will greatly enhance the usefulness of Wikidata for Commons.

To use the full potential of arbitrary access the Commons community needs to reimplement several templates in LUA. In LUA it's possible to use the local fields and fallback to Wikidata if it's not locally available. Help with this conversion is greatly appreciated. The different tasks are tracked in phabricator, see https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T89594.

Volunteers are continuing to add data about artworks to Wikidata. Sometimes an institution website is used and sometimes data is being transfered from Commons to Wikidata. Wikidata now has almost 35.000 items about paintings. This is done as part of the WikiProject sum of all paintings. This helps us to learn how to model and refine metadata about artworks. Experience that will of course be very useful for Commons too.

Additionally, the metadata cleanup drive continues to produce results. The drive, which is intended to identify files missing information or the like structured data fields and to add such fields when absent, has reduced the number of files missing information by on Commons. You can help by looking for files with similarly-formatted description pages, and listing them at Commons:Bots/Work requests so that a bot can add the information template on them.

At the Amsterdam Hackathon in November 2014, a couple of different models were developed about how artwork can be viewed on the web using structured data from Wikidata. You can browse two examples here and here. These examples can give you an idea of the kind of data that file pages have the potential to display on-wiki in the future.

The Structured Data project is a long-term one, and the volunteers and staff will continue working together to provide the structure and support in the back-end toward front-end development. There are still many things to do to help advance the project, and I hope to have more news for you in the near future. Contact me any time with questions, comments, concerns.

-- User:Keegan (WMF) (talk) 19:46, 19 February 2015 (UTC)


 * I've lightly edited the above message to fix broken links to project-namespace pages on Commons. {&#123; Nihiltres &#124;talk&#124;edits}&#125; 20:00, 19 February 2015 (UTC)
 * And I've tweaked it a bit further. Graham 87 03:34, 20 February 2015 (UTC)

FORCETOC causes whitespace problems
I have TOC turned off (I find it breaks up the article). When I read an article with FORCETOC, I see a line of whitespace. Is this the right place to report this? Maury Markowitz (talk) 13:13, 20 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Yes, it is. -- Edgars2007  (talk/contribs) 14:06, 20 February 2015 (UTC)

Log-in problem
Why am I constantly being asked to log in to Wikipedia, even though I check "Keep me logged in"? I use Internet Explorer 11. Wahrmund (talk) 16:33, 18 February 2015 (UTC)
 * A very non-expert suggestion: Have you got IE set to delete your history at the end of a session? If you have, it'll delete the cookie that enables your log-in. I use 'delete history' on Firefox, and I keep cookies form a small number of sites, but bin all others. (I also have third party cookies banned, which cuts down on the junk.) Peridon (talk) 12:26, 21 February 2015 (UTC)

Improve the canned edit summary tag filter
Currently (see ) the "canned edit summary" tag is only to be triggered by: A check in Special:AbuseFilter/633 (I swear I wasn't able to see the abuse filter before ) shows that those are the only summaries that work. The tag needs to be improved to cover summaries like: &mdash;George8211 / T 23:00, 19 February 2015 (UTC)
 * "Fixed grammar"
 * "Added links"
 * "Fixed typo"
 * "Added content"
 * "Typo"
 * "I made it correct"


 * "canned edit summary" refers to canned responses in the official Wikipedia App. Does the app have other canned edit summaries than "Fixed typo", "Fixed grammar", "Added links"? PrimeHunter (talk) 00:52, 20 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Oh, sorry. I thought it meant something like standard edit summary. &mdash;George8211 / T 17:18, 20 February 2015 (UTC)

Searching user list
Is there a way to get a list of user names that contain a particular string? This only works if the string is at the beginning of the user name. --<b style="color:navy">Neil N </b> <i style="color:blue">talk to me</i> 17:27, 20 February 2015 (UTC)


 * It should be relatively easy to do something in Quarry. Do you have a particular string you want? Andrew Gray (talk) 18:18, 20 February 2015 (UTC)


 * ...and here is the code to generate it for <tt>*example*</tt> or <tt>*Example*</tt>. Not sure how to make it case-insensitive. Andrew Gray (talk) 18:24, 20 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Hey, thanks! I had no idea something like Quarry existed. --<b style="color:navy">Neil N </b> <i style="color:blue">talk to me</i> 20:46, 20 February 2015 (UTC)
 * It's an amazing resource (a hassle to figure out all the arcane tables, but that's life). Wish we'd had it a decade sooner :-) Andrew Gray (talk) 11:21, 21 February 2015 (UTC)

Apawamis Club
Help! I just created an article for "Apawamis Club". However, the name of the article seems to be "Apawamic Club" instead due to a typo. How do I change that? Can someone help me please. --EditorExtraordinaire (talk) 20:35, 20 February 2015 (UTC)
 * [[File:Vector hidden move button.jpg]]
 * If there is not already an article by the correct name (or a redirect with only trivial history), you can move the page. —EncMstr (talk) 20:44, 20 February 2015 (UTC)


 * I've moved it for you. Although you're newer, you've been around long enough and have enough edits that you should be autoconfirmed, which means that when you are looking at a page there should be a button next to history that says "More" and has a down arrow.  Click on that and there's one that says, "Move".  Click on that and fill in the new title and the reason for the move and click the submit button and it should move the page.
 * Also, I took a look at the page, and you need more sources for that article. Currently all you cite is the club history on the club's website.  Given what else you say in the article, (the fact that it's over 100 years old and has hosted several major tournaments) you should be able to find some more reliable, independent sources.  The article needs to cite those before someone comes along and tries to delete it.  ~  ONUnicorn (Talk&#124;Contribs) problem solving 20:50, 20 February 2015 (UTC)

QUESTION: How to "Center" Template:MarsRocks on Article Page?
QUESTION: What code is needed to "Center" my newly created "Template:MarsRocks" on an Article Page - such as the "List of rocks on Mars" article page? - Thanks in advance for your reply - Enjoy! :) Drbogdan (talk) 18:21, 21 February 2015 (UTC)
 * See Help:TABLECENTER. --  Gadget850talk 18:49, 21 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Thank you *very much* for your comment - and suggestion - noted coding centered the "Template:MarsRocks" table *very well* - Thanks for your help with this - and - Enjoy! :) Drbogdan (talk) 19:07, 21 February 2015 (UTC)

Strange behavior from PAGESIZE magic word
Hello all,

I've spent basically today building this really complicated template and it's really close to done. A manually programmed mockup is at User:Resident Mario/Voter/Results while a template version is at User:Resident Mario/Voter/Results/core. I ran through the entire setup procedure and hit a wall at the final step which goes like follows:

If you go to User:Resident Mario/Voter/Test Poll/No, edit it, and insert a ~ in place of a - in the comment opener it will reveal the hidden counter on the page, which is functioning as expected&mdash;returning the number of votes on the page.

However when this template is transclusized to another page it mysteriously instead returns meaningless variable input that seems to change every once in a while and is mysteriously the same for both values:

What the hey? <span style="font-family:Verdana,Arial,Helvetica"><b style="color:#333333; font-size:small;">Res</b> Mar 01:57, 22 February 2015 (UTC)


 * If  is on page A and you transclude A on page B then   returns B, in this case . So the number is based on the size of this page in both cases. PrimeHunter (talk) 02:16, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the prompt reply; any way you know of that solves this issue? Looking into it now (so refreshing to know what's broke, for once). <span style="font-family:Verdana,Arial,Helvetica"><b style="color:#333333; font-size:small;">Res</b> Mar 02:20, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Clarification: I see the problem is in the interface between  and  . Would a naive solution, then be to subtract the current page's FULLPAGESIZE from the total? But there's a division operation in between and, well, there goes another half hour...<span style="font-family:Verdana,Arial,Helvetica"><b style="color:#333333; font-size:small;">Res</b> Mar  02:27, 22 February 2015 (UTC)


 * (edit conflict) Why do you want the name of the template page? Is there something wrong with  and  ? You could allow a default option with subpages called /Yes and /No with this:   and  . PrimeHunter (talk) 02:33, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
 * If you make defaults then /Support and /Oppose may fit more cases, or it could be something generic like "/Option 1" and "/Option 2". PrimeHunter (talk) 02:43, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
 * I'm keeping that open ended because I implement an optional third polling option later on. I started using that configuration, which I wasn't even previously aware of, because laughed at me and hurt my feelings. I'll try substituting your construction now. <span style="font-family:Verdana,Arial,Helvetica"><b style="color:#333333; font-size:small;">Res</b> Mar  02:47, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
 * You can use something like, but you need to insert spaces for it to work properly, otherwise the parser doesn't know whether you mean a template name taken from a parameter, or a parameter name taken from a template call. For the former, use  , and for the latter, use  . — <span style="color: #194D00; font-family: Palatino, Times, serif">Mr. Stradivarius  ♪ talk ♪ 02:57, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
 * has the same problem that my current implementation does, the topic of this question. I'm frankly not sure the whole thing is salvageable, actually. It's very frustrating because I got the mockup working in an hour or so and this has taken me an entire day and I'm not out of the woods yet ,at all... <span style="font-family:Verdana,Arial,Helvetica"><b style="color:#333333; font-size:small;">Res</b> Mar 03:04, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
 * To do it with PAGESIZE and have it work with transclusion, you need to specify the vote page explicitly, like this. — <span style="color: #194D00; font-family: Palatino, Times, serif">Mr. Stradivarius  ♪ talk ♪ 03:25, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
 * It would be easy to get the wrong vote count using PAGESIZE, for example if someone changed the formatting of the vote page like I just did here (without thinking about how it would affect the calculations). Or if someone added a comment with their vote. Instead, how about using a preload to insert a pre-designated string, and then using a simple Lua module to count the number of times those strings occur on the page? Users would still be able to break the vote count by removing the string, or by adding extra unique strings, but at least it would be harder to break accidentally. — <span style="color: #194D00; font-family: Palatino, Times, serif">Mr. Stradivarius  ♪ talk ♪ 03:10, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Do you know Lua, and would you be willing to help me out here, then? I know nothing of the capacities of the new template plugins but from my experience with scripting languages it would be a trivial problem, yes. Frankly I just didn't expect this to take so much time to get roadblocked: if it wasn't for the weird glitch that Prime has pointed out in this really borderline case I'd be done, now (and if he hadn't, well I doubt I'd have figured it out myself!). As efficient use of time goes learning to use Lua and Lua templates might have been, uh, smarter. <span style="font-family:Verdana,Arial,Helvetica"><b style="color:#333333; font-size:small;">Res</b> Mar 03:16, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Further context: vision, originating discussion at the Signpost. <span style="font-family:Verdana,Arial,Helvetica"><b style="color:#333333; font-size:small;">Res</b> Mar 03:20, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Ok, I'm officially calling this particular effort in. Stradivarius, let's discuss this Lua angle... <span style="font-family:Verdana,Arial,Helvetica"><b style="color:#333333; font-size:small;">Res</b> Mar 03:36, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Well, I've gone ahead and created a simple string counting module at Module:User:Mr. Stradivarius/String count. For example, to count the number of times the string "admin" appears in the source wikitext of ANI, you would use  (result: ). If this looks like a good approach, then I can fix it up so that input errors etc. are caught, and put it in the template. — <span style="color: #194D00; font-family: Palatino, Times, serif">Mr. Stradivarius  ♪ talk ♪ 03:52, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Please by all means do! <span style="font-family:Verdana,Arial,Helvetica"><b style="color:#333333; font-size:small;">Res</b> Mar 03:58, 22 February 2015 (UTC)

Lua
I will like to know where are the reasons or discussion for the integration of Lua in order to render templates/infoboxes. -- Keysanger (talk) 22:08, 10 February 2015 (UTC)
 * A scripting engine was created for maintainability, ease of writing logic, and performance. Lua specifically was chosen for its sandboxing capabilities. Martijn Hoekstra (talk) 22:35, 10 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Do you know whether there is a paper about, or RfC? -- Keysanger (talk) 23:19, 10 February 2015 (UTC)
 * There sure is a whole lot of mailinglist stuff about it. There is which is one of the oldest documents about it I guess. I'm not 100% sure if there was an RFC, but the general sentiment was one of thank god. An RFC wasn't really needed either, as nothing was really changing, just additional options were provided. People started using it naturally, and there wasn't much, if any, opposition. Mediawiki templates are really not suitable for programming, and something like Scribunto, which is the name of the Lua extension was sorely needed. You could ask Tim Starling or Anome, who both worked on the implementation, they surely remember if there were any en.wiki discussions about the implementation. Martijn Hoekstra (talk) 23:35, 10 February 2015 (UTC)
 * While I don't particularly recall an RfC as such, there were quite a few discussions. I'd try checking out the archives of he various Village Pumps or the discussion pages for the particular template(s) that you are interested in. – Philosopher Let us reason together. 23:51, 10 February 2015 (UTC)
 * There's a decent summary of the history and reasons in File:Wikimedia Hackathon 2013 - Scribunto presentation slides.pdf. Anomie⚔ 01:08, 11 February 2015 (UTC)

That is what I was looking for, thank you, Martijn, Philosopher, Anomie. -- Keysanger (talk) 10:06, 11 February 2015 (UTC)

Lua has made some templates far more efficient, and made it possible for others to do things that were impossible or impractical, before. However, it has also made it harder for many editors to understand how templates work, or to change them. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 21:10, 14 February 2015 (UTC)
 * I imagine there are some editors who actually prefer parser functions, either through long exposure to it or because its syntax seems simpler somehow (and it arguably is, but that simplicity means doing anything non-trivial with it is far more complex). But I can't think there are many. Lua is so much better in almost every single way: apart from the above it's far easier to work with, with proper syntax colouring, syntax checking and easier conceptually with a clear separation between code (the Module namespace) and everything else - no more ugly linebreaking comments because the parser code in a template is also its output.-- JohnBlackburne words<sub style="margin-left:-2.0ex;">deeds 23:07, 14 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Please explain how to obtain a list of recognised parameters from a Lua-ised template. With a normal template, I search for triple opening braces; anything from that point to the next pipe or triple closing brace is the name of a valid parameter. For example, the template code might be  in which I find   - of these, the first is the null parameter which is a "special" (almost always found, as here, preceding a parser function or template name in the form  ); there are three named parameters name reason date and one positional parameter. Now, how do I do that with a Lua-ised template? Sometimes, they're helpful, as with  which we know recognises three positional parameters - but it might take more than three, and it might also take named parameters. -- Red rose64 (talk) 09:23, 15 February 2015 (UTC)
 * In a module, you can (almost) always scan the entry point for  Martijn Hoekstra (talk) 11:02, 15 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Doesn't work with Module:Infobox and I bet I can dig up more examples. -- Red rose64 (talk) 12:10, 15 February 2015 (UTC)
 * I think there was (at least) once such question at VPT, which resulted in answer, that there is no 100% sure way of doing that. But maybe I'm wrong or things has changed.  Edgars2007  (talk/contribs) 23:40, 15 February 2015 (UTC)


 * I don’t think 'make it easier to find function parameters by looking at source code' should be a design principal of any programming language. It may be easier for some editors in some cases (though I suspect not generally even for them: see e.g. this version of Dynkin before its Luafication) but all parameters available for use should be fully documented in the documentation, and editors should refer to that. You could easily make a mistake, using parameters wrongly, not recognising dependencies, using parameters meant only for testing or replaced by newer parameters and left in for compatibility but not meant to be used.
 * This to me seems an argument for properly documenting all templates and modules meant to be used by editors other than their creator. There seems to be no requirement at the moment; understandably editors are focussed on getting templates finished, working, with bugs squashed. Documentation often seems to lag behind, only fixed when someone notices perhaps weeks later that it no longer matches the template. In a few cases templates go without documentation for weeks, months or years. Dynkin was one that only got documentation as I converted it to Lua; it had none for the previous three+ years.-- JohnBlackburne words<sub style="margin-left:-2.0ex;">deeds 23:37, 17 February 2015 (UTC)
 * It absolutely should be, it is important for internationalisation. When you have a simple language like template-speak a suitable parser can be crafted in a couple of lines, for Lua its a different ball game.  One cannot rely on every template author to exhaustively document and understand nuances, this is why languages have thrown away flexibility (un-forced locking, multiple inheritance, type looseness, uninitialised variables, memory reuse, etc.).  Indeed Lua was dragged kicking and screaming out of the Foundation, and was probably not the best solution.  Also it has lead to compulsive re-writing of templates to "be more efficient" which it often is, but not always, since many programmers are taught how to program, but not taught any computer science.  Certainly we have abandoned a lot of readability, which is a cardinal sin. It is much like the obsession with every jot and tittle having a CSS class, which is actually implemented in every skin in every browser as "default text, default size". All the best: Rich Farmbrough, 11:23, 18 February 2015 (UTC).


 * Rich, I've read this a couple of times now, and I have no idea what the point is you're trying to make. Martijn Hoekstra (talk) 11:38, 18 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Template documentation is not kept up to date, although it certainly should be. If I see from a diff that a template has been amended in such a way that a triple opening brace has been added, I know that either a new parameter has been added, or an existing param has been given greater functionality. Similarly for when a triple opening brace is removed. Either way, I know that the documentation should be checked and updated where necessary. But if the template is in Lua, how do I know that a parameter has been added, amended or removed? What are the simple tell-tale signs (equivalent to the triple opening brace) that I can look for? Until and unless there is a mandatory requirement that templates not be amended without the documentation also being amended, there needs to be a way for people to spot and correct any discrepancy between template and documentation.
 * I agree with Rich: there are people on a drive to rewrite templates in Lua, not because it should be done, but because it can be done. In so doing, something is always overlooked, unexpected behaviour is added, previous expected behaviour suddenly fails to operate as it should. Also, the number of people capable of sorting out these (and future) problems is greatly reduced. See WT:WSS -- Red rose64 (talk) 13:02, 18 February 2015 (UTC)

Parser functions are simpler, yes, so there is really only one way to handle parameters. But this is one of their worst features. Simple tasks like taking a number/date, converting it to a standard format such as an integer, then using that throughout the template are impossible. You either do it in-place every time it's used in a parser function or you impose stringent conditions on input, so a task that would take a single line of [Lua] code becomes an obligation on every editor using the template/a source of numerous errors when the wrong format is used. More generally Parser functions' simplicity make doing even simple things very hard, and makes doing even mildly complex things (such as those requiring simple loops - all those templates with hard coded limits on the number of parameters as each parameter has to be handled individually) impossible. It is an appalling language for programming and is long overdue replacement.

I also dispute the number of people capable of sorting out these problems is reduced. It's greatly expanded because we are now using a proper programming language, one that many programmers use, or if they don't that they can quickly pick it up as it has much in common with other modern programming languages. It may take time for existing editors to become as proficient and for new editors with appropriate skills to join but it should be quicker and easier for most than learning parser functions.

We could do better at updating templates though. Apart from requiring all templates be properly documented, proper use of each template's sandbox (and module sandbox) and testcases would catch at least some problems. Where this isn't enough or practical (not every template can be tested on a template subpage) perhaps have a process of code review, where other editors look over the code changes in the sandbox. This is common in industry and has other benefits besides helping ensure correctness.-- JohnBlackburne words<sub style="margin-left:-2.0ex;">deeds 01:26, 19 February 2015 (UTC)
 * If Lua was used to encapsulate stuff that is hard in template language, we would have broken the main roadblock, which was the functions that were either horrendous or impossible in template language, and which the developers refused to supply as parser functions (although they were written and tested). Certainly looping and recursion are useful, but they were denied from the original langu age for performance reasons (as was "if", and Tim even said he regretted permitting that (actually "qif") on one occasion) - recursion could be reintroduced trivially.
 * Moreover template language is actually wiki-markup, there's nothing special about it. Therefore anyone who can write articles can write templates.  Templates that have simple arguments require a little more knowledge, but not much.
 * As for the lack of variables in templates, other Mediawiki wikis have created a syntax that allows them.
 * All the best: Rich Farmbrough, 20:37, 22 February 2015 (UTC).

AnomieBOT
I'd really love it if AnomieBot could be excluded from making changes show up as "not current". Samsara 00:09, 17 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Pinging its owner . --AKlapper (WMF) (talk) 09:42, 17 February 2015 (UTC)
 * That would require a rather major change to MediaWiki in how the "bot" flag on a revision gets stored, and then another change to how the "current" revision gets flagged that might prove prohibitive from a database performance standpoint. Anomie⚔ 13:29, 17 February 2015 (UTC)
 * I was aware that the problem is with MediaWiki, not with the bot, which is why I brought discussion here so as to gauge the level of support for this idea. The database load depends on the desired depth of the feature. I'd be happy with a depth of 1.


 * Allowing people to set up custom ignore lists has potential benefits beyond ignoring actions by trusted bots. Samsara 18:32, 17 February 2015 (UTC)

(There used to be a gadget which helped with the watch-list problem.) If this was built in (and wasn't just "all bots") there would need to be a preferences page for  each user to list their "ignored-for-purposes-of-calculating-current list". I also doubt that there would be much impact on performance, especially if it was not a default option. All the best: Rich Farmbrough, 20:45, 22 February 2015 (UTC).

Strange page name linked in alerts
Hello! Please have a look at this screenshot, which shows my alerts from today. What's that " &#91;No page&#93; " page, I've never seen it before? Could it be some kind of a bug? &mdash; Dsimic (talk | contribs) 18:54, 21 February 2015 (UTC)
 * This happens when the page has been deleted by the time you see the notification. More at phab:T52829. -- John of Reading (talk) 19:01, 21 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Thank you for the clarification! &mdash; Dsimic (talk | contribs) 21:50, 21 February 2015 (UTC)
 * It's from MediaWiki:Echo-no-title. If it's believed to only occur for deleted pages then I suggest we change it to say "[Deleted page]". The page name would be nice to have but if it's not available then "[Deleted page]" at least indicates the problem while "[No page]" sounds like a bug or unknown feature. PrimeHunter (talk) — Preceding undated comment added 22:10, 21 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Agreed, "[Deleted page]" would be less confusing. &mdash; Dsimic (talk | contribs) 22:55, 21 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Just to check we don't have more information available, what exactly does the entry say when viewed at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Notifications?uselang=qqx? Quote the whole text. PrimeHunter (talk) 23:45, 21 February 2015 (UTC)
 * It says this: "(notification-page-linked: HM Tamim7, HipHop Virtual Machine, (echo-no-title))". &mdash; Dsimic (talk | contribs) 00:08, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
 * It reveals the user who linked it but nothing directly about the page. You can however guess the pagename from User talk:HM Tamim7, even without access to deleted edits. The link in Hmtsoft was in . Should we code MediaWiki:Notification-page-linked to display the username when the pagename is unavailable due to deletion? PrimeHunter (talk) 01:07, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
 * I'd say that displaying more of the available information can only be beneficial. So yes, I'd vote for both "[Deleted page]" instead of "[No page]", and for displaying the username. &mdash; Dsimic (talk | contribs) 01:30, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
 * I agree, but would prefer more input before changing a default interface message. phab:T52829 is from July 2013 with no recent activity so there is no telling when or if the pagename becomes available. PrimeHunter (talk) 01:45, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Sure thing, any interface changes of this kind would require input from more than a few editors. &mdash; Dsimic (talk | contribs) 02:52, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Moreover, it would be even better to have something like "HipHop Virtual Machine was linked from a page that was later deleted", of course if that would be doable, instead of having a "[Deleted page]" that confusingly links nowhere. The username could be also added, for example with something like "HipHop Virtual Machine was linked from a now deleted page that was created by Hmtsoft".  Just as a wording suggestion. &mdash; Dsimic (talk | contribs) 03:31, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Hmtsoft is the unavailable name of the deleted page. The user was User:HM Tamim7. The passed username is the one who added the link in an edit and not necessarily the page creator. Notifications are usually brief. MediaWiki:Echo-no-title can be used by other notifications and I think consistency is good. How about simply changing "HipHop Virtual Machine was linked from [No page]" to "HipHop Virtual Machine was linked from [Deleted page] by HM Tamim7". PrimeHunter (talk) 03:59, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Oops, sorry, obviously I didn't pay enough attention. Maybe this could be slightly better: "HipHop Virtual Machine was linked from a now deleted page by HM Tamim7"? &mdash; Dsimic (talk | contribs) 04:30, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Prime Hunter's version if it gives the actual deleted page, Dsimic's if that is not available. Even then "HipHop Virtual Machine was linked  by HM Tamim7, from a now deleted page"  is better, because we don't want to imply HM Tarim7 deleted the page. All the best: Rich Farmbrough, 20:16, 22 February 2015 (UTC).

The page $ already exists and cannot be overwritten
What's the message that says this? See the text inside the big red box in this screenshot if my meaning isn't clear. It's kind-of under discussion in the final section of Wikipedia talk:Requested moves right now, so I searched for the title (searching only Mediawiki: space pages), but all I could find was the related but different MediaWiki:Fileexists-forbidden. It's definitely not Mediawiki:Talkexists, because Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/MediaWiki:Talkexists notes that this message was deprecated several years ago. As far as I can tell, uselang=qqx doesn't work when you're at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/special:movepage — after I moved a page, I changed the URL to https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:MovePage&action=submit&uselang=qqx, but all it gave me was the message for "you didn't specify a page to move". Nyttend (talk) 18:55, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
 * It's MediaWiki:movepage-page-exists.  19:29, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
 * See Village pump (technical)/Archive 131 for tips another time. PrimeHunter (talk) 21:11, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Edokter, thanks for the link! I created it by adding a second sentence and a pair of &lt;big> tags to the Mediawiki page.  This didn't work, however: the additional sentence displayed, of course, but when moving User:Salvidrim!/sandboxorig to User:Salvidrim!/sandboxtest and checking the "move talk page" box, I got  The page User talk:Salvidrim!/sandboxtest already exists and cannot be automatically overwritten. You must resolve the situation manually if you want to complete this pagemove.   I didn't realise that tags like &lt;big>&lt;/big> would display as text when used in a Mediawiki tag, rather than working.  Any ideas on what to do?  I was going to delete my version of MediaWiki:movepage-page-exists, but I suppose I ought to leave it up in case anyone else wants to try something, but feel free to request deletion at any point if you think that there's no more testing to be done.  Nyttend (talk) 23:09, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
 * No all system messages are going through the sanitizer/parser to process HTML and wiki markup, so it is treated raw. Not much one can do here in terms of styling this message. I've deleted it.  23:29, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Also, please don't use ; it is deprecated in HTML5.  23:31, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Actually, it's obsolete in HTML 5, which is "stronger" than deprecated. -- Red rose64 (talk) 23:36, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
 * I'll think about doing so once WikiMedia stops allowing me to use ...which'll never happen (ae. cruft is cruft is cruft and chalk it up to the age of the website). <span style="font-family:Verdana,Arial,Helvetica"><b style="color:#333333; font-size:small;">Res</b> Mar  01:43, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
 * I'm pretty sure center is converted by the parser to div style="margin:auto" /div. But... I could be wrong. --Izno (talk) 05:10, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
 * You are wrong, there are no parser conversions for obsolete elements or attributes at the moment (this change was reverted in 2012). Center is probably also a obsolete tag that the parser will never substitute. The reason is that it's effects are dependent on it's parents, which makes it difficult for the parser to replace it correctly. Instead, like bgcolor on tables, it will work for as long as browsers choose to support it and then simply stop working. I believe we recently got reports from the first browsers dropping support for some obsolete attributes, so that might be reason to re assess changes to the parser (I think Edokter actually was considering taking another look at that). Any change will likely first start with adding tracking categories or something similar, giving editors a way to assist and observe changes. —Th e DJ (talk • contribs) 09:35, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
 * On the <table ></table> <tr ></tr> <th ></th> <td ></td> elements, the  attribute was never a full part of the HTML spec. It was first described in HTML 4, but was marked as deprecated even then, hence browser vendors were never obliged to provide it; it is known that some browsers do not support this attribute, which is why we have bots going around altering them to  . The <big ></big> and <center ></center> elements are different, in that both were part of the formal spec - both were added in HTML 3.2; center was marked as deprecated in HTML 4.01, but big was not; both are obsolete in HTML 5. If an element - or an element's attributes - were part of the formal spec for HTML 2.0, HTML 3.2 or HTML 4.01, browser vendors of the time will have included support for those elements or attributes (otherwise they wouldn't have been compliant), and since nobody is obliged to rewrite web pages to accord with the latest spec, there will be a lot of web pages out there which are pure HTML 3.2, so browser vendors are unlikely to drop support at any time soon. -- Red rose64 (talk) 11:19, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
 * If all system messages are treated as raw, what about the big involved ones with lots of links and other stuff, like MediaWiki:Blockiptext? What if we added its use of NOTOC/NOEDITSECTION and turned the warning into a section header?  Nyttend (talk) 02:53, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Won't work. Not all system messages are treated raw; it depends on what part of the software or extension is actually using the messages. Phabricator is your best chance.  09:24, 23 February 2015 (UTC)

Unclosed div in Template:Start tab
At the end of Template:Start tab there's an unclosed  tag, and it's causing the sections on this page not to collapse on mobile view. (Compare this page with, e.g., ANI in mobile view.) This unclosed div has been there for a long time, so I think something in the mobile skin must have changed recently. There might be a bug report in that, if someone wants to look. On the premise that unclosed divs are usually bad news I tested what would happen if I removed it, but the result is that the tabs don't display properly. Can anyone see how to balance the tags while still getting everything to display correctly? — <span style="color: #194D00; font-family: Palatino, Times, serif">Mr. Stradivarius  ♪ talk ♪ 12:37, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
 * The closing tags can be found in End tab.  12:49, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
 * That makes sense. In that case, it looks like the problem is that Template:Village pump page header isn't using end tab when it should be. I can't quite see how it can be made to fit in with the current code, though. — <span style="color: #194D00; font-family: Palatino, Times, serif">Mr. Stradivarius  ♪ talk ♪ 14:10, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
 * That template is a mess, and it takes a bit of profiling to fix it.  15:46, 23 February 2015 (UTC)

Size of Wikipedia
Dear editors: I have been looking at some of the statistics about Wikipedia, and I find graphs about the number of edits, the number of articles, the number of active editors, etc. Is there also a graph that shows the growth over time of the combined size (maybe in gigabytes) of all articles? (not talk pages, etc.) This, to me, would be the best overall indicator of Wikipedia's growth, rather than the number of articles, since more articles created means more articles to be enlarged and updated.&mdash;Anne Delong (talk) 14:22, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
 * is this any help? - X201 (talk) 14:37, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
 * I have lots of questions on these graphs, but the main one is: how can I see statistics more recent than 2006? Just curious. Ottawahitech (talk) 14:55, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Scroll your browser window from left to right. - X201 (talk) 15:04, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Several of the charts stop at January 2010 - any idea why? GoingBatty (talk) 15:42, 23 February 2015 (UTC)

Tech News: 2015-09
<section begin="technews-2015-W09"/> Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Recent software changes
 * All new accounts are now global.
 * Your Meta user page is now shown if you don't have a user page on a wiki. You can report problems if you see any. You can ask a bot to delete your old user pages.

Software changes this week
 * The new version of MediaWiki has been on test wikis and MediaWiki.org since February 18. It will be on non-Wikipedia wikis from February 25. It will be on all Wikipedias from February 26 (calendar).
 * It is now easier to see template fields in VisualEditor. The fields are bigger.
 * It is now easier to see when a button is disabled in VisualEditor.
 * Sometimes when you copy-pasted a template in VisualEditor, it was replaced by HTML. This problem is now fixed.
 * Tools in Labs will stop working for a few hours on February 24.

Meetings
 * You can read the notes from the last meeting with the VisualEditor team.
 * You can join the next weekly meeting with the VisualEditor team. During the meetings you can tell developers which bugs are the most important. The meeting will be on February 26 at 00:00 (UTC). See how to join.

Future changes
 * At the moment you need to log in to edit Wikimedia wikis on mobile devices. You can say if anyone should be allowed to edit on the mobile sites. The discussion ends on March 15.
 * Images in the interface will soon work better in Opera 12.

Tech news prepared by tech ambassadors and posted by bot • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe. <section end="technews-2015-W09"/> 16:29, 23 February 2015 (UTC)

I am not able to edit my user page
I am not able to edit my user page using my android mobile browser (Google Chrome). This error starts appearing from 2 days. The edit source icon in mobile version of wikipedia(A Pencil Logo), get merged to the notification icon on the top right corner of the page. I can give a screenshot of this. I am not able to understanding the kind of error happening to it, even though when I opening wikipedia on PC, it's all right. Please anyone solve this problem. Mobile Browser: Google Chrome 38.0.1847(Android) Link: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Saurabh_Chatterjee_2 Saurabh Chatterjee 2 (talk) 17:03, 18 February 2015 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Saurabh Chatterjee 2 (talk • contribs) 16:58, 18 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Hi, I can't reproduce this issue (anymore?), can you take a screenshot and upload it? --Florianschmidtwelzow (talk) 19:24, 18 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Can you still reproduce the problem? :) --Florianschmidtwelzow (talk) 17:50, 23 February 2015 (UTC)

CSS 'nth-child' integration into long tables?
I asked over at the help desk, but I haven't gotten much of a response&mdash;thought I'd try here. Basically, I was wondering if it's possible to use the CSS parameter  (as explained here: ) in tables to ease the coding of background colors or text features at a steady interval? Currently, I'd have to code  on every other row, even though I only want a gray background color on the even-numbered rows. Were I designing a table in a webpage, I could use  to set up this style from the beginning. Additionally, the parameter allows the designer to set up whatever intervals s/he wishes and to begin the intervals after a certain number of columns or rows. This would be greatly beneficial in extremely long tables where reading clarity is paramount. I think alternating row colors help the reader stay on course through detailed and lengthy data points. Is this possible? -- Veggies (<font color="blue" face="Times New Roman">talk ) 04:48, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Unfortunately nth child can only be used with a stylesheet on Wikipedia. Related stackoverflow exchange. --Izno (talk) 05:12, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
 * You could use Alternating rows table section, but really I think the syntax for that is uglier than just styling the tables yourself. Maybe a better template could be created that uses Lua?--Dudemanfellabra (talk) 06:36, 23 February 2015 (UTC)

The last of three discussions at MediaWiki talk:Common.css/Archive 15. --  Gadget850talk 17:34, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
 * I may well just add the following line of CSS (from the previous discussions, adding white stripes), just to give editors the option. We'll see how popular it gets.   17:51, 23 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Fwiw... we started the needed polling for facilitating the development of "something" along the same lines as mentioned above over on Wikisource more than a month ago. You can check out both the nth test-bed & the findings to date (even participate) starting HERE. -- George Orwell III (talk) 00:36, 24 February 2015 (UTC)

Edit API error
I have a script at User:Dudemanfellabra/NRISOnly.js that controls my bot, User:NationalRegisterBot. I run it ~weekly and it scours the lists on WP:NRHPPROGRESS to produce this list of all pages in the project, along with a bunch of other information that it dumps in various places. It takes about 3 hours for each run, and I've tried to run it twice today, both times failing at the very end when it tries to dump the information by editing subpages of the above-linked page. Since it takes so long to run, I haven't had time to poke around to figure out what's wrong with it. I haven't changed the code since the last bot run a week ago, so I'm wondering if anything has changed in the API since then? Is anyone else having problems? The editing is done through an AJAX call as follows: $.ajax({       url: mw.util.wikiScript( 'api' ),        type: 'POST',        dataType: 'json',        async: false,        data: {            format: 'json',            action: 'edit',            title: info.title,            text: info.text,            summary: info.summary,            token: mw.user.tokens.get( 'editToken' ),            bot: 'true'        }    }) where  is an object with the relevant information. Any ideas?--Dudemanfellabra (talk) 06:32, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
 * What error response is the API returning? Legoktm (talk) 07:41, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
 * See, that's the problem. I don't have the code set up to show me the error (dumb mistake on my part). It just says it encountered an error. (Side note: If I wanted to output the API error, how would I do so?) But it's never encountered one before, and like I said, it ran fine last week, so something has had to change somewhere besides the code. I was hoping someone with knowledge of a recent change would chime in, but it seems no one knows of anything. I'll look into it more if I can.--Dudemanfellabra (talk) 06:59, 24 February 2015 (UTC)

Download as PDF failing
This was reported on the HelpDesk. The download as PDF feature is failing on the Madoff investment scandal article, but works OK on other articles. The eror message is "Status: Rendering process died with non zero code: 1". any ideas? - X201 (talk) 14:46, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks for reporting this. The problem is tracked in T74002. --AKlapper (WMF) (talk) 18:07, 23 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Apparently caused by statement <NOWIKI>CAHIERS NO 6.pdf</NOWIKI> (recursive PDF?) --Boson (talk) 18:15, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
 * PS: The first German one under T74002 also appears to be caused by an embedded file, the statement being the German equivalent of <NOWIKI>EU financial transaction tax.svg]]</NOWIKI> (can be reproduced using that statement).--Boson (talk) 18:37, 23 February 2015 (UTC)

Issue with history link for Redirects for discussion/Log/2015 February 4
For some reason, for the past couple of days, whenever I attempt to load the history page for Redirects for discussion/Log/2015 February 4 on my device's browser, my browser freezes and crashes. Can this issue be replicated by someone else, and if it can be replicated, can it be fixed? Steel1943 (talk) 20:20, 23 February 2015 (UTC)


 * It works fine for me on Linux/Firefox 22. —EncMstr (talk) 21:30, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Also me, Windows XP/Firefox 35.0.1 -- Red rose64 (talk) 21:37, 23 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Loads fine here too; Win 8.1/IE 11. The only thing "odd" I can report about opening that history page was the re-appearance of the cite-banner announcing Steward Elections when I know I "dismissed it" already right around the time of the issue/changes concerning the Hide Fundraising gadget a couple of days ago. -- George Orwell III (talk) 00:46, 24 February 2015 (UTC)

Searching, dates, and bots
When you do a search on Wikipedia, under the search is a green date indicating when the page was last modified. This is a useful tool when searching discussion pages, as it enables you to search within a time frame. Unfortunately, bot edits update the last edited date, making it harder to brows by discussion date. Is there any way to make it so that bot edits do not trigger an update to the last edited date in search results? – Philosopher Let us reason together. 01:19, 24 February 2015 (UTC)

http://stats.grok.se partial data
Both January 27 and February 4 only show partial data for pageviews. Both dates compiled only articles up to some point in the alphabet between Royce White and Tim Hardaway, Jr.. All articles after this point in the alphabet have no pageview data for these dates. Recall that December 31, 2013 stopped between TNZ and TO and was not compiled completely for several months thereafter.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 21:31, 5 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Currently, February 5 has compiled to somewhere between Emily Ratajkowski and Frank Underwood (House of Cards).--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 05:40, 6 February 2015 (UTC)
 * No Page view statistics at all are available for February 6, and Henrik's talkpage is pretty much deserted Ottawahitech (talk) 14:32, 7 February 2015 (UTC)
 * 2/7 did almost none of the pageviews. It stopped somewhere between Aardvark and Anthony Davis (basketball).--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 09:07, 8 February 2015 (UTC)
 * It appears that the program follows the alphabet not only in the articles but also in the Wikipedias it serves. According to this posting the Arab Wikipedia's Page view statistics are still working while the English Wikipedia's are not. Ottawahitech (talk) 14:37, 9 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Still no Page view statistics ? Ottawahitech (talk) 14:29, 9 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Is the source data from Wikimedia complete? It's best to narrow down the offender. It'd be nice if the Foundation could follow through and actually make their own page view statistics in a readable format rather than relying on a website that frequently breaks. Killiondude (talk) 00:27, 10 February 2015 (UTC)
 * You may be thinking of WMF Labs "Wikiviewstats", which has been in this condition since last October <b style="color:seagreen">Noyster</b> (talk),  16:41, 10 February 2015 (UTC)
 * The source data from appears to be complete. Mr.Z-man 05:06, 11 February 2015 (UTC)

The following is a better summary of the problem dates. The following shows the last page I quickly found with seemingly full stats and the first page that I did not see stats for.


 * Jan 27: Royce White and Tim Hardaway, Jr.
 * Feb 4: Royce White and Tim Hardaway, Jr.
 * Feb 5: Emily Ratajkowski and Frank Underwood (House of Cards)
 * Feb 6: None (before Aardvark)
 * Feb 7: Aardvark and Anthony Davis (basketball)
 * Feb 8: None (before Aardvark)
 * Feb 9: Campbell's Soup Cans and Cloud Gate
 * Feb 10: None (before Aardvark)
 * Feb 12: None (before Aardvark)
 * Feb 13: None (before Aardvark)

I continue to assume the English WP pageview stats are compiled alphabetically and base the above information on that fact.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 06:42, 10 February 2015 (UTC)

In Polish Wikipedia stats are down from 2015-02-02. --Swd (talk) 07:47, 10 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Still no Page view statistics ? Ottawahitech (talk) 01:06, 11 February 2015 (UTC)
 * It's up again for 11 February now. While I saw a graph yesterday where only 6th, 8th and 10th February were missing, the graph for the same page today shows a gap from 5 thru 11 February... Does anyone know if the missing data will be restored? --78.53.66.106 (talk) 21:29, 12 February 2015 (UTC) (PS ping as you asked there :)

No data?
I've been checking both the English and Japanese Wikipedias, and essentially, data for February 4 and 5 is missing. What happened? Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 13:49, 6 February 2015 (UTC)
 * I use the service regularly for it.wiki and I've noticed some lack of data on January, the 27th, but in the previous months it has been performing quite well. It did show some interruptions in the past, but not recently.--Alexmar983 (talk) 21:26, 10 February 2015 (UTC)
 * I reported this earlier after seeing Stand Up, Stand Up for Jesus apparently not have any views for the 27th despite being on DYK. But when I reported it, no-one appeared interested. I would like to know why there is no data and why WikiViewStats are down too.  The C of E God Save the Queen!  ( talk ) 09:54, 11 February 2015 (UTC)

Anyone interested?
In collaborating on a new, stable, pageview system? grok.se and wikiviewstats are both maintained by single users who haven't been active in months. I don't have the time or interest to do it all myself (plus, we obviously want to avoid having a single person running important systems like this), but I have some experience (and already-written code) from popularpages. So if 2 or 3 other people are interested, I'd also be in. Mr.Z-man 05:06, 11 February 2015 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure if this is still a plan, but last October, the WMF said that they were trying to build a new page view system: "Negrin told [the Signpost] that they are aware of the problem [with grok.se] and are currently working to replace the current apparatus with a "modern, scalable system," which will come out in a preliminary form next quarter." Now, my memory could be wrong and the WMF was referring to something else ... but that's one reason we have pings. Ed [talk] [majestic titan] 18:09, 11 February 2015 (UTC)
 * What about https://stats.wikimedia.org/ ? Anyway there could be a replacement needed, as seems to be [//tools.wmflabs.org/guc/?user=Henrik on the leave]? (Unfortunately, I am no programmer, even not when I log in ;) PS. stats.grok.se says: "This is very much a beta service and may disappear or change at any time." :( --78.53.66.106 (talk) 21:54, 12 February 2015 (UTC)

Working again?
Ha. Looks like it may be working again. Pkeets (talk) 02:35, 14 February 2015 (UTC)
 * All I'm getting is "Internal server error". Squinge (talk) 10:38, 14 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Still not working as far as I can see... Simon Burchell (talk) 17:47, 14 February 2015 (UTC)


 * I still see an empty gap between February 6 and February 11. Dustin  ( talk ) 18:17, 14 February 2015 (UTC)
 * And there's been nothing since Feb 11 as far as I can see - not even blank entries now, just no update to the chart at all. Squinge (talk) 06:36, 15 February 2015 (UTC)

This is really making it hard to do quite a lot of things... Fix needed soon, and lost data recovered.  Rcsprinter123    (lecture)  @ 19:55, 15 February 2015 (UTC)

EN WP pageview stats are all caught up except for one date
Since I believe that the pageview statistics are done alphabetically, I have looked at the pageview stats for Zoo and believe that all the problematic February dates have been caught up and the only remaining date at issue is January 27, which cut off somewhere between Royce White and Tim Hardaway, Jr.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 06:21, 16 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Looking good to me too. I've checked a number of pages on my watchlist and they're all up to date with the exception of Jan 27. Squinge (talk) 10:54, 16 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Now it is Jan 27 and Feb 16, given that today did not run.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 06:13, 17 February 2015 (UTC)
 * The 27th and everything up throught the 17th is now done. Not sure why the 18th is not done yet, but all seems to be going well again.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 23:01, 19 February 2015 (UTC)

Not updating
Now the 18th through 20th are undone. This is no longer updating pageviews daily.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 08:50, 21 February 2015 (UTC)

stats.grok.se
I know this is a recurring problem that has been happening for years. But we have not had stats since Feb 17: Main page stats. Any chance WMF will be hooking the articles up to a more reliable method? — Maile (talk) 13:11, 21 February 2015 (UTC)
 * See also Wikipedia_talk:Wikipedia_Signpost. Ottawahitech (talk) 15:58, 24 February 2015 (UTC)

===Cannot connect to server=== My browser cannot connect to the server stat.grok.se. Ottawahitech (talk) 17:11, 22 February 2015 (UTC)

Page Curation toolbar went away?
Off and on for a few weeks now I've been working on trying to reduce the backlog at Special:NewPagesFeed (currently up to December 7th). I've found the page curation toolbar to be extremely helpful. Yesterday, it was gone. I figured I must have mucked something up in my preferences, so I played around with them and then it came back. I have not changed them at all since then, but today it's gone again. Does anyone know what's going on with that? I can't even mark a page as reviewed. ~  ONUnicorn (Talk&#124;Contribs) problem solving 19:31, 20 February 2015 (UTC)
 * And now it's back again? But I didn't do anything.  This is odd. ~  ONUnicorn (Talk&#124;Contribs) problem solving 20:37, 20 February 2015 (UTC)
 * And now it's gone again. I don't get it. ~  ONUnicorn (Talk&#124;Contribs) problem solving 18:39, 24 February 2015 (UTC)

API request for listing per-user contributions
Is there an API or bulk-export version of Special:Contributions? —Steve Summit (talk) 03:17, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
 * mw:API:Usercontribs--Dudemanfellabra (talk) 07:02, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Perfect, thanks! —Steve Summit (talk) 12:17, 24 February 2015 (UTC)

Weird bug at Template:RFC
Please look at Template talk:Rfc, where an IP has discovered a strange formatting bug. Oiyarbepsy (talk) 05:47, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Please revert Special:Diff/648592168 if it doesn't solve the problem. –Be..anyone (talk) 06:28, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
 * It didn't. Per WP:TESTCASES, please use the template's sandbox for testing, don't do it on live templates; and per WP:MULTI, please discuss on the original thread, which is Template talk:Rfc. -- Red rose64 (talk) 10:29, 24 February 2015 (UTC)

Getting the URL for a PDF
Google has changed the way it's links worked, at least I don't recall them working this way in the past, and PDFs no longer point to the document but an intermediate google page with the URL encoded in it. I'm trying to cite the paper "DARPA Paves the Way for U.S. Efforts in Ballistic Missile Defense", which if you Google, will find the document but if you click on it will not reveal the URL. In this case the complete URL is listed in green, but in every other case it runs out of that area and has been mangled. Does anyone know a simple way to get the original URL from Google? Maury Markowitz (talk) 13:41, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
 * There's a little down-arrow symbol next to the green URL. Click that, go to the cached page, and the full original URL will be listed at the top. — <span style="color: #194D00; font-family: Palatino, Times, serif">Mr. Stradivarius  ♪ talk ♪ 13:54, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Perfect, thanks!. This also shows the article in my browser instead of download, which is an immediate improvement. Maury Markowitz (talk) 13:56, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
 * If you use Firefox: http://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/google-search-link-fix/ --NE2 19:42, 24 February 2015 (UTC)

Importing a gadget
I tried to import Commons' TinEye gadget to my common.js page in this edit, but it isn't working. Any idea what I did wrong? – Philosopher Let us reason together. 04:50, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
 * You want commons.wikimedia.org, not commons.mediawiki.org, for starters. &mdash;Cryptic 05:01, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
 * That would be it. Thanks. – Philosopher Let us reason together. 21:30, 24 February 2015 (UTC)

May 2,014 cleanup tags
Notrees, Texas (got to love the name :-) is currently in the nonexistent Category:Articles with unsourced statements from May 2,014, along with two other articles. Why is it here, not in Category:Articles with unsourced statements from May 2014? The text string  appears only twice in the article: once in a citation (it was accessed last year) and once in the fact that's apparently to blame here, but the code appears flawless. Why would { {fact|date=May 2014} } (note the lack of a comma) put it in a 2,014 category? In another article from this category, Tangerine, Florida, the category gets added by this edit. As far as I can tell, the bot worked just normally and made no mistakes. Why is the comma added when it's not in the code? Nyttend (talk) 08:35, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Infobox settlement expects the to consist only of digits, and displays it using formatnum. This messes up the output of the fact tag. One possible fix is to move the tag to the  field. -- John of Reading (talk) 09:18, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks! Fixed the other article, an airport, as well.  I also reported this to Anomie, since it first appeared when the bot tagged it; without even looking at the page or the diffs, he identified the problem correctly.  Surely this isn't the only nonexistent category with this problem: I assume that other months and other types of cleanup categories have been mangled this way (e.g. Category:Wikipedia articles needing clarification from September 2,014, although that's empty), but I don't know how to search for them without manually examining every page individually.  Is there a way to get a list of all pages that are included in nonexistent categories with names including "2,001" through "2,015"?  Perhaps a database dump?  Nyttend (talk) 15:01, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
 * The downloadable XML dumps won't help with this. Someone with SQL skills might be able to run a query for you. -- John of Reading (talk) 15:23, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
 * A "fuzzy" search does work, search for  and following years (2013 seems to be earliest year with this problem), see extended search help. But of course a more professional SQL query would be better in the long run. GermanJoe (talk) 16:14, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
 * PS: Searching for the shorter  will catch all maintenance categories, that follow the "... from month year" convention. A few false positives sneak in, but the results appear to be (almost) complete. GermanJoe (talk) 17:09, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Would it be easier to have a bot do it one at a time? I'm imagining that the bot creates a list by opening every subcategory of Category:Wikipedia maintenance categories sorted by month and expanding the name by adding "from MONTH Y,EAR".  With this done, it simply checks every item on the list, and it logs any categories that have entries.  There are currently 163 subcategories; with 15 possible years, and 12 possible months per year, this works out to 29,340 nonexistent categories that it would need to check.  Reasonable or unreasonable?  Nyttend (talk) 16:32, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
 * The easiest way is probably to just run a query like  on Tool Labs. Doing that just now turned up the following:
 * Category:Articles with disputed statements from January 2,014
 * Category:Articles with unsourced statements from April 2,013
 * Category:Articles with unsourced statements from August 2,014
 * Category:Articles with unsourced statements from December 2,013
 * Category:Articles with unsourced statements from December 2,014
 * Category:Articles with unsourced statements from February 2,013
 * Category:Articles with unsourced statements from January 2,015
 * Category:Articles with unsourced statements from June 2,014
 * Category:Articles with unsourced statements from November 2,013
 * Category:Articles with unsourced statements from November 2,014
 * Category:Articles with unsourced statements from October 2,014
 * Category:Articles with unsourced statements from September 2,013
 * Category:Articles with unsourced statements from September 2,014
 * Category:Self-contradictory articles from February 2,013 (Done, tag moved)
 * Category:Vague or ambiguous time from February 2,015
 * Category:Vague or ambiguous time from January 2,015
 * Category:Wikipedia articles in need of updating from January 2,014
 * So not that many categories to look at currently. I might look into writing a bot task to automatically fix the common cases, if someone wants to help by identifying any besides . Anomie⚔ 19:02, 24 February 2015 (UTC)

!!!Fuck You!!! - search question
Why does typing a hash character  #  into the search box bring up !!!Fuck You!!! as one of the first results, while typing an exclamation mark ! – apparently the first character of that string – does not? Is this some sort of intentional Easter-egg feature? I don't mind, but ask because there was an email to OTRS about it. Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 19:20, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Interesting, I vaguely recall some other unexpected result on commons, and when I try it here today I get a perfectly boring and correct "Number sign". Monobook, Chrome, almost no gadgets. –Be..anyone (talk) 19:35, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
 * My guess: since # is used for anchors, the search box ignores it and starts listing all articles. But if you type ! it uses some algorithm to determine which articles beginning with ! you're more likely to want. Note that !! gets you fucked in the seventh position. --NE2 19:40, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Yes most likely, # is invalid to start page titles with so it will probably strip that character at some point and search for everything. While ! possibly does some ranking in the results starting with !. —Th e DJ (talk • contribs) 19:44, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
 * '#' is one of Naming conventions (technical restrictions). The searchbox autocomplete for '#' produces the first 10 names at Special:Allpages. I guess this is a somewhat arbitrary consequence of an implementation detail and not a deliberate decision. I think Be..anyone made an actual search.[//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ASearch&search=%23&fulltext=Search] That gives me Number sign. PrimeHunter (talk) 20:23, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks to all – I should really have been able to work that out for myself. Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 21:54, 24 February 2015 (UTC)

Extremely slow load speeds
For the past couple days Wikipedia has been very slow on loading, getting stuck on transferring data from bits.wikimedia.org. I've cleared my cache/cookies, but even things on Wi-Fi experience these slow speeds. KyoufuNoDaiou (talk) 04:10, 20 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Please use your browser's developer tools ("Network") to see which specific files load how slowly. --AKlapper (WMF) (talk) 13:06, 20 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Today it's working at proper speeds. Should it happen again I will check and post again. Thanks! KyoufuNoDaiou (talk) 15:53, 20 February 2015 (UTC)
 * It's extremely slow again, not even loading. I had to use noscript to get here. This image took something like 2 minutes to load only after I opened it in a new tab. https://bits.wikimedia.org/images/wikimedia-button.png It seems to be anything coming from bits slows it down. Let me know if you need anything else, I appreciate the help. It's only bits as well. I can view the page source a couple seconds after loading the page, it's just that nothing displays.KyoufuNoDaiou (talk) 02:38, 21 February 2015 (UTC)
 * I suggest using the command  (or  ) to check which specific intermediate hosts between you and bits.wikimedia.org are slow. I'm not sure if it's related, but for the record, at Japanese Wikipedia some people (presumably all of which were connecting from Japan) simlarly reported slowness between February 14-18. Whym (talk) 03:12, 21 February 2015 (UTC)
 * It's working at a good speed again today. If it slows down again (hopefully not) and the reply time is coming from a Wikipedia server, I'll post again. Thanks!KyoufuNoDaiou (talk) 15:53, 21 February 2015 (UTC)


 * I've had extremely slow load speeds for wikipedia all week, but today it is even worse. It is only wikipedia that is affected no other websites, and regardless of where I am trying to acces it from.User:Maunus ·ʍaunus·snunɐw· 21:11, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
 * It's slow again for me as well. Most of the time traceroute gives good numbers (approx 55-85 ms) a couple times I got some higher ones (100-200 ms) but it still is slow.KyoufuNoDaiou (talk) 21:36, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
 * I just ran a Network test and some Javascript took ~88 seconds to download that and on another test a css took a while as well.KyoufuNoDaiou (talk) 21:52, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
 * It's been hit and miss for me all week, too. Using MonoBook. Smarkflea (talk) 23:00, 22 February 2015 (UTC)

I'll email ops, but while we're waiting, could you please post (or e-mail to User:Faidon Liambotis (WMF)) your general location or IP address? Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 01:43, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Im in San Diego, CA. When I use another laptop I have normal load speeds though. User:Maunus ·ʍaunus·snunɐw· 05:55, 23 February 2015 (UTC)

I think these are all issues with AT&T in the US (and possibly focused on the west coast?), we've had a couple of more reports from there as well. I haven't been able to pinpoint where the issue lies exactly so far, I'm afraid. I did made a change just now but it was more of a guess — please do let me know if you continue to see issues or if they are magically fixed. I'll reach out to AT&T contacts in the meantime to report the issue and possibly get some insight. Thanks for your report and for your patience! Faidon Liambotis (WMF) (talk) 07:23, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Ah, I've been getting this behavior too, and I'm on AT&T U-verse on a dynamic IP on the west coast (Mountain View, CA). My current traceroute to bits.wikimedia.org looks like this (I'm posting this for the route, not the times, and I have no timing issues at the moment anyway):

traceroute to bits.wikimedia.org (208.80.154.234), 64 hops max, 52 byte packets 1 homeportal (192.168.1.254)  0.949 ms  0.790 ms  0.740 ms 2  99-45-168-2.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net (99.45.168.2)  19.612 ms  25.996 ms  19.302 ms 3  71.145.0.196 (71.145.0.196)  27.317 ms  19.185 ms  19.794 ms 4  12.83.39.189 (12.83.39.189)  20.220 ms    12.83.39.185 (12.83.39.185)  20.219 ms  20.898 ms 5  12.122.149.137 (12.122.149.137)  21.978 ms  23.541 ms  24.127 ms 6  192.205.37.58 (192.205.37.58)  22.712 ms  23.026 ms  22.803 ms 7  ae-9.r22.snjsca04.us.bb.gin.ntt.net (129.250.5.241)  23.488 ms  22.586 ms  22.569 ms 8  ae-7.r23.asbnva02.us.bb.gin.ntt.net (129.250.6.238)  88.753 ms  93.651 ms  89.593 ms 9  ae-45.r06.asbnva02.us.bb.gin.ntt.net (129.250.6.11)  88.924 ms  94.450 ms  92.912 ms 10  * * * ...
 * This slowdown behavior seems to depend on the time of day, being the worst in mid to late afternoon local time. It's completely absent right now (11:30 PM local time), but unless your change fixed it, I would expect it to return around the same time tomorrow. --Colin Douglas Howell (talk) 07:34, 23 February 2015 (UTC)

We debugged this extensively with an AT&T engineer. They made some recommendations on which paths to use and which to avoid, as some of their paths are currently congested for various reasons. I've made some adjustments to our config to use a different carrier and it's very likely it may help. Please do let me know if you keep seeing slowdowns, esp. if you are an AT&T customer. Thanks! Faidon Liambotis (WMF) (talk) 18:16, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
 * I'm not an AT&T customer, but it uses their phone lines. No other site has been affected...Smarkflea (talk) 19:04, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
 * It's been working well the past couple days and today. Thanks for all your work!KyoufuNoDaiou (talk) 19:15, 25 February 2015 (UTC)

Viewing KML data in Google Maps
It appears that links to https://maps.google.com/ - such as the one titled "Map all microformatted coordinates" in - will stop working soon. I've started a thread at Template talk:GeoGroup. -- Red rose64 (talk) 19:55, 25 February 2015 (UTC)

CAPTCHA behaviour is broken
Lately, whenever I try to save an edit that includes a new external link, I get a red error message saying "Incorrect or missing CAPTCHA". This is despite not having been prompted to enter one. When I go to the bottom of the page and enter the CAPTCHA that does now appear, everything works. However, the sequence of events, which always used to offer a CAPTCHA prompt on save, is now broken. 86.150.71.35 (talk) 02:00, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Which browser is this about? I assume you are not logged in when this happens? --AKlapper (WMF) (talk) 09:31, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
 * It happens for me in both Chrome 40 and IE 11 under Win 7 when not logged in. Are you not seeing it? 31.49.120.201 (talk) 12:06, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Anyone??? 86.155.201.148 (talk) 12:04, 26 February 2015 (UTC)

PDF/book creator
For the past several days, every time I try to download and generate a PDF file for an article(s) I get a Wikimedia Foundation Error result. Also, every time I try to generate a pdf file with one column I get a Rendering failed result. When I switch to two columns there are no problems -- until recently, that is. As I said, I'm getting a Wiki'Foundation error all the time now. -- Gwillhickers (talk) 23:12, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Is this the same as above? -- Red rose64 (talk) 23:21, 25 February 2015 (UTC)

2015 Hackathon in France
Is anyone planning to go to the Hackathon in Lyon, France (23–25 May 2015)? The WMF devs are looking for some volunteers to partner with. People with all kinds of skills (including language and design skills) are needed, and you might get a chance to work with some of the WMF's rockstar devs. If you're interested, please read the linked pages about how to volunteer. (You can e-mail me if you need help figuring out how the process works.) Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 01:06, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Not sure where to look, so I'll be lazy and ask here. Have you left a similar question at fr:wp?  fr:Special:Contributions/Whatamidoing (WMF) doesn't show me anything, but of course I know that someone else could have asked.  Nyttend (talk) 01:18, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
 * This page is one of the central pages for reaching technically minded people from all over the world, which is why I chose it for the sole message I've posted. Also, these events seem to be, in practice, mostly English-speaking.  But the information has been announced by other people/in other ways, too.  Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 23:38, 26 February 2015 (UTC)

New CSS in Firefox
Hi all; if anybody here uses Firefox, but has not yet upgraded from Firefox 35 to FF 36, please describe the appearance of the underline in this text. -- Red rose64 (talk) 09:57, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
 * I'm still on 35, on Ubuntu. Here's what it looks like for me. — <span style="color: #194D00; font-family: Palatino, Times, serif">Mr. Stradivarius  ♪ talk ♪ 10:07, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Chrome 40 and FF 35; it is just a straight black underline.  10:10, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Updated to FF 40 now... Spell checker.  10:19, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks, I thought as much: I upgraded from FF 35 to FF 36 overnight, and what I now see is a wavy red underline. This means that as from version 36, Firefox now implements CSS Text Decoration Module Level 3 but don't rely on it, since it's still a W3C Candidate Recommendation, not yet a W3C Recommendation. -- Red rose64 (talk) 10:20, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
 * FF34 still doesn't show the text-decoration-color and text-decoration-style, consistent with the MDN compatibility table. 62.194.104.217 (talk) 10:24, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Also noteworthy: FF36 finally fixed their longstanding gradient bug.  10:30, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Pale Moon 25.2.1 (Gecko/20150122, its the 64-bit non-chromified Firefox, highly recommended) still see the straight black underline. — Dispenser 16:30, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Chrome 40.0.2214.115m (current version) and Opera 12.17 (also current) both show straight black. Chrome's Inspect element feature says "Unknown property name" for both and . So it looks like Firefox is ahead of the others for those properties. -- Red rose64 (talk) 16:57, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Note that Firefox has supported these properties since V6, but prefixed <span style="text-decoration: underline; -moz-text-decoration-color: red; -moz-text-decoration-style: wavy">with -moz- .  17:32, 26 February 2015 (UTC)

What is my mouseover telling me?
On Safari, when I hover over a inter-wiki link I see a pop-up that appears. The text in the popup is identical to the link text - it does not display either the URL or the "real" link below it. For instance, the link to Point Magu in one of my articles points to Naval Air Station Point Mugu, but this does not appear in the popup. Anyone know what this is and what it's for? Maury Markowitz (talk) 23:30, 26 February 2015 (UTC)


 * I suspect you are using wrong terminology. Please post a link to the article with your example, and say where on the article you see it. PrimeHunter (talk) 23:42, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Maury Markowitz, are you using Vector (default) or Monobook as your Wikipedia skin? WhatamIdoing (talk) 00:12, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
 * I think monobook. The article is Nike Zeus, look for Point Magu. Maury Markowitz (talk) 00:14, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
 * When I just looked at the page LIM-49 Nike Zeus, and placed my mouse over Point Mugu, the pop-up worked (showing a redirect to Point Mugu, California and the first paragraph of that article). If you are you saying that the popup is just a text repeat of the text of the link, what may be happening is that the page hasn't completely loaded, or the server is busy; at least, that's when it happens to me from time to time. --Arxiloxos (talk) 00:25, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
 * The report is very confused. An interwiki link is a link to another wiki. This is apparently about a wikilink, i.e. a link to another English Wikipedia page. Nike Zeus is not an article, it is a redirect to LIM-49 Nike Zeus. The string "Point Magu" does not occur in LIM-49 Nike Zeus. The string "Point Mugu" occurs twice. Once without being linked and once as an unpiped link Point Mugu which redirects to Point Mugu, California and not to Naval Air Station Point Mugu. I guess this is what really happens for Maury: On the article LIM-49 Nike Zeus he hovers over "Point Mugu" in the "Testing" section and if he clicks it then he goes to Point Mugu, California, but the mouseover only says "Point Mugu". I guess Arxiloxos has enabled either "Navigation popups" at Special:Preferences or "Hovercards" Special:Preferences, and Maury Markowitz has neither. If you have neither then you get the same as logged out users: A small box with the name of the link target and nothing else. The link in LIM-49 Nike Zeus says  which renders as Point Mugu. The small box says "Point Mugu" exactly as it's supposed to. Point Mugu is a redirect to Point Mugu, California but the small box doesn't examine that. If it had been a piped link   which renders as Point Mugu, then the small box would have said "Point Mugu, California". PrimeHunter (talk) 00:58, 27 February 2015 (UTC)

Automatic capitalization of title-initial Unicode characters
Has the automatic capitalization of initial letters in titles been changed recently? ɱ is no longer autocapitalized to Ɱ. Compare this to ɔ, which correctly becomes Ɔ. Gorobay (talk) 15:23, 25 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Examples, please. Your links are redirects to articles on the characters. --  Gadget850talk 15:26, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
 * The capitalized form of ⟨ɱ⟩ is ⟨Ɱ⟩. Therefore, ɱ should be the same page as Ɱ, but it is not. Similarly, Ꞅ redirects to Insular S, but its lowercase form (ꞅ) does not. Similarly, Ỽ is an article, but its lowercase form ỽ does not exist. That means that some characters are not being capitalized properly. Gorobay (talk) 15:49, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Look under the title of the target articles — go to ɔ and you correctly see (Redirected from Ɔ) (because it capitalises the letter), but for some weird reason, going to ɱ provides a message of (Redirected from ɱ). Or click the link, to examine the redirect directly; you'll see an uppercase Ɔ and a lowercase ɱ for the page titles.  Nyttend (talk) 17:17, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Couple of years back had a lot of trouble because the system suddenly started uppercasing their username to . I believe they couldn't edit their user page or access their contributions, and other things were not possible. -- Red rose64 (talk) 17:21, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
 * It seems that the lowercase user was renamed to uppercase in early 2013, but the lowercase user still seems to exist with zero edits on other projects. Very confusing. --Stefan2 (talk) 17:26, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Found it, Village pump (technical)/Archive 105. -- Red rose64 (talk) 19:34, 25 February 2015 (UTC)

Capitalization only works with character pairs encoded in Unicode 4.0. I guess some MediaWiki config file thinks it’s still 2003. However, Utf8Case.ser (the version in MediaWiki 1.25wmf17) maps ⟨ɱ⟩ to ⟨Ɱ⟩, so it should still work. What else controls capitalization? Gorobay (talk) 20:32, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
 * I tested this on my local test installation of the MediaWiki software and it works fine (the page title "ɱ" automatically transforms to "Ɱ"). There must be something wrong with the way WMF wikis in particular are configured. — This, that and the other (talk) 23:44, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
 * The function uc (which I assume is the right function) looks for PHP’s built-in mb_strtoupper before falling back to Utf8Case.ser. Wikipedia currently uses HHVM 3.3.1, which includes mb_strtoupper. HHVM 3.3.1 does not support the latest version of Unicode. What version of PHP or HHVM are you using? Gorobay (talk) 04:32, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Gorobay, you can find a list of (most) version numbers at Special:Version. Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 23:47, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Right, that’s how I knew Wikipedia uses HHVM 3.3.1. I was asking This, that and the other for specifics about their local test. Gorobay (talk) 02:20, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
 * I use Zend PHP version 5.5.15. Looks like we need to get someone to look at WMF's build of HHVM. I filed T91056 to track the issue. — This, that and the other (talk) 11:22, 27 February 2015 (UTC)

Save button placement
I frequently find that after editing, in trying to hit the "save" button, I will inadvertently hit the adjoining link to CC-BY-SA-3.0 License. Can we somehow provide a little safe space around what is arguably the most important widget on Wikipedia? LeadSongDog come howl!  13:53, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
 * What I did was to add  to Special:MyPage/common.css. This hides the block of text from 'By clicking the "Save page" button' down to 'a hyperlink or URL is sufficient for CC BY-SA 3.0 attribution.' -- Red rose64 (talk) 14:24, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Most users probably have the links in MediaWiki:Wikimedia-copyrightwarning on the first line to the right of the buttons in the edit window. I don't think we should add spaces in the interface for everybody just to avoid that some users get a link in the vicinity of a button. PrimeHunter (talk) 15:18, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
 * That's why I suggested personal customisation. But MediaWiki:Wikimedia-copyrightwarning isn't to the right of the buttons, it's directly above, in both Vector and MonoBook. If doesn't want to hide that block of text, they can increase the gap below it with a rule like   or perhaps   - again, put the chosen rule in Special:MyPage/common.css. -- Red rose64 (talk) 15:30, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Thank you for the suggestions on simplifying my life, but of course personal customization does nothing for the vast majority of users who are not logged in. Can we not simply use the same space presently above the copyright warning, but put it below it instead? The problem is particularly egregious when working in Safari on the iPad with fat fingers.... It probably runs afoul of some wp:accessibility principles too. LeadSongDog come howl!  16:11, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
 * The problem would only affect users working on 4:3 resolutions as far as I can tell, on 16:9 and 16:10 resolutions there is no link close to the save page button. Sam Walton (talk) 16:17, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Perhaps, but 1024x768 is supposed to be our most basic viewport size. Looking at the WCAG, one finds that we've missed G178: Providing controls on the Web page that allow users to incrementally change the size of all text on the page up to 200 percent. Though that wouldn't be the ideal solution to this particular issue, it really should be addressed. More to the point, though, is G155: Providing a checkbox in addition to a submit button. We fall afoul of that (on every viewport size) simply by making the irrevocable agreement on "Save page" not require a dismiss checkbox. LeadSongDog come howl!  17:03, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
 * LeadSongDog, can you clarify your request? Do you want an extra blank line underneath the copyright notice, or do you want the copyright notice underneath the Save button?
 * Also, changing anything about the copyright statement requires approval from Legal, so we'd have to check with them before anything could be done. Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 00:01, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Not suggesting any change to the notice, just looking for some space above the "Save page" button to separate it from the CC BY-SA 3.0 License link. If vertical space is an issue, reducing the gap below "Watch this page" or below the "Save page" would do it. LeadSongDog  come howl!  01:20, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
 * I'm not a lawyer and don't work for WMF but I guess the legal concern is that By clicking the "Save page" button, you agree to... should be close to the "Save page" button so contributors are clearly warned of what they agree to. The text also starts above the button for me. Earlier I meant that the part containing the links is not near the Save button on my screen where the line wraps after the last link on "GFDL". On narrow screens/windows or with large fonts the line may wrap earlier and place a link near the Save button. PrimeHunter (talk) 02:40, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Well that's the real argument for having a separate checkbox for "I understand" before enabling the save page button, but that's a rather larger change than 2 or 3 en of white space. LeadSongDog come howl!  03:10, 27 February 2015 (UTC)

Colors in vector skin?
Hello, I need some help please (Windows XP, FF 36, Vector skin). For some reason all colors within my Wikipedia windows are brighter and/or messed up. For example: WP:PR usually had a light green background color for me, but now is very light gray, almost white. The documentation box in template:cite web was light green, but is now very light blue. Project banners on talkpages have been turquiose / light greenish and are now bright yellow. The Wiki browser page as a whole "looks" brighter. Any idea, where to look for such settings or how to reset them to the "old" status? (I tried to reset brightness and contrast on my monitor and graphic settings, but with no success). GermanJoe (talk) 14:36, 26 February 2015 (UTC)


 * I have Win 8.1, FF36 and Vector. I see no changes. documentation still has the same light green/blue background. --   Gadget850talk 15:01, 26 February 2015 (UTC)

PAGE''' ]]) 20:36, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks for checking, Gadget850. I did a complete color recalibration in my monitor setup and that somehow fixed the problem. I still don't know, how the settings got corrupted to begin with, but never mind - it's OK again :). GermanJoe (talk) 15:20, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Did you upgrade graphics drivers (either manually or through Windows Update)? I had this problem about 6 years ago on XP with new NVidia drivers defaulting to some whacky color settings. --Ahecht ([[User_talk:Ahecht|<span style="color:#FFF;background:#00f;display:inline-block;padding:1px 1px 0;vertical-align:-0.3em;line-height:1;font-size:62.5%;text-align:center;">'''TALK
 * Only one minor non-graphical update yesterday (that I know of), but I'll check this more closely. Thanks for the tip. GermanJoe (talk) 04:39, 27 February 2015 (UTC)

Strings
Can somebody give me a link about this kind of patterns: %s%((.-)%) (example from Template:Title disambig text)? I would like to understand them and not ask questions "how to do that or that" :) -- Edgars2007  (talk/contribs) 14:42, 26 February 2015 (UTC)


 * The template says . That means it uses the   function of Module:String. The documentation at Module:String has three links under "For information on constructing Lua patterns". PrimeHunter (talk) 15:06, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
 * So obvious. Thanks! -- Edgars2007  (talk/contribs) 15:33, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Sorry, I tweaked pattern in the template, and then protected it, as I noticed it was used in Template:Disambiguation which has more than 100,000 transclusions. Hopefully that was something along the lines of what you were looking to do... — <span style="color: #194D00; font-family: Palatino, Times, serif">Mr. Stradivarius  ♪ talk ♪ 03:14, 27 February 2015 (UTC)

I'm assuming you didn't bother testing that one.


 * Original on "Foo (bar)": ->
 * Your version on "Foo (bar)": ->

You broke it. Reverted. And for the record, the "-1" was already there to get the last match. Dragons flight (talk) 04:04, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Oops. Sorry, yes, I should have tested that properly. Thanks for catching it. — <span style="color: #194D00; font-family: Palatino, Times, serif">Mr. Stradivarius  ♪ talk ♪ 04:18, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
 * No biggie. Though, I did get a kick out of the fact you broke that template and then immediately protected the broken version.  Dragons flight (talk) 04:28, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Does that qualify for WP:STOCKS? I can see the caption now - "Mr. Stradivarius for the when-it's-broken-it-stays-broken award"... — <span style="color: #194D00; font-family: Palatino, Times, serif">Mr. Stradivarius  ♪ talk ♪ 04:45, 27 February 2015 (UTC)


 * In case you are curious, the problem appears to be that the use of a match selection index (in this case, "-1") is incompatible with the use of the start anchor tag "^".
 * That's a pretty subtle thing to miss, but does show the value of double checking the result. Dragons flight (talk) 04:47, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
 * That's a pretty subtle thing to miss, but does show the value of double checking the result. Dragons flight (talk) 04:47, 27 February 2015 (UTC)

Is there a such parser function/magic word?
I'm not sure exactly where to ask this, so I thought this would be the best place: Is there a magic word/parser function that automatically detects the target of a redirect (and returns that value) if the page which the magic word/parser function is placed is a redirect? I'm just wondering since there's an edit I would like to perform on Db-redirnone, but I can only do it properly if that magic word/parser function exists. Steel1943 (talk) 20:56, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
 * I don't think so, unless H:MW is out of date. -- Red rose64 (talk) 21:05, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
 * No magic word AFAIK, though there is a Lua script that does that. SiBr4 (talk) 21:08, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks for letting me know about that Lua module. However, I tested it out, and I cannot use it for my intended purpose since I cannot use the parser function  for the "redirect-page-name". I'm going to ask this on the module's talk page. Thanks again for finding this.  Steel1943  (talk) 21:55, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Never mind SiBr4 ... it work as I need it to (after a 2nd test). Thanks again! Steel1943  (talk) 21:59, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Neither using the page the module is on as parameter nor using magic words fails by itself. However, placing any text above the redirect breaks the redirect, so the module returns the current page name. Therefore you'll need something else for the deletion template to work. SiBr4 (talk) 08:42, 27 February 2015 (UTC)

Template:Main - appearance (or lack thereof) on mobile browsers
It seems that is hidden on mobiles, due to site CSS. I suggested personal CSS to unhide it, but apparently that doesn't work. Please discuss at Template talk:Main. -- Red rose64 (talk) 16:11, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
 * More generally, all hatnotes (specifically, all elements with the <tt>hatnote</tt> CSS class) are hidden unless the display width is large enough. This means important navigation information is missing for mobile users who don't think to (or can't) rotate the display to a landscape configuration. Hairy Dude (talk) 16:26, 27 February 2015 (UTC)

Unlabeled star is meaningless to newcomers and many advanced editors
At the top of my page there is an unlabeled star. When I hover over it I get a message stating, "Add this page to your watchlist." Why doesn't it bear a label so editors will know what it is supposed to do? I know (now), but for a long time I didn't. While I'm at it, there is a label marked "TW." I am surmising that this is short for "Twinkle," but really I have no idea what Twinkle is. Why must we have such ingroup labels at the tops of our pages? Sincerely, GeorgeLouis (talk) 06:51, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
 * That star is part of the "Vector" skin (explicitly designed to be compact); it's not found in the Monobook skin - the word "watch" is. עוד מישהו Od Mishehu 08:17, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Also, there's a tooltip displayed when hovering over the star, which describes its purpose. &mdash; Dsimic (talk | contribs) 08:22, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
 * I would say, what's wrong with the star, when you can hover over it to see what it does? And you must have enabled Twinkle for yourself if you see "TW" there. Twinkle is not enabled for all users, only those who choose to enable it. The "TW" abbreviation is used simply to save space, not as an intentional obfuscation measure. — This, that and the other (talk) 13:03, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
 * The star icon has become a browser standard: Firefox, IE and others use it for bookmarks. The watchlist icon was chosen as an analogue to bookmarks. --  Gadget850talk 13:24, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Chrome and IE use it so IMHO it makes sense for us too, As for Twinkle - It's easier and with the greatest respect I'd imagine 90% know what it is so not really seeing any need to change the star or even consider doing so. But that's just my 2¢. – Davey 2010 Talk 13:38, 25 February 2015 (UTC)


 * I know very well what they both mean, but I do agree if I didn't I would be upset when viewing from my mobile in desktop mode where I can't 'just hover' over either to see. I'm guessing if I was first editing from a tablet I'd be upset too since it is another touch device without hover.  I'd suspect that it would be a good idea to include in our vector.css/js a way to determine if the user is on a touch device and 'use our words' instead of symbols.  Just my 2cp on it, and I really don't care anyways except I was a little annoyed by the direction of this discussion. —   13:43, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
 * - "little annoyed by the direction of this discussion" - Well I'm assuming it's me - I've read my comment 4 times and still see nothing wrong with it so could you explain what I've said that's ticked you off?.... – Davey 2010 Talk 14:08, 25 February 2015 (UTC)

PAGE''' ]]) 14:22, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
 * For once I have to agree with T13 here. Every other function on the Wikipedia page is represented by words, not an icon (at least until you get into edit mode and use the RefToolbar). It's kind of jarring. Besides, mystery meat navigation is never a good thing. By default, I think that  and   would be better. --Ahecht ([[User_talk:Ahecht|<span style="color:#FFF;background:#00f;display:inline-block;padding:1px 1px 0;vertical-align:-0.3em;line-height:1;font-size:62.5%;text-align:center;">'''TALK

I think GeorgeLouis makes a really good point!

1) Watching articles really, really matters. Watching articles, looking at your watchlist is the engine of Wikipedia! If nobody watches articles, they degrade. Recent Changes patrol is not able to be our only quality control, and page watchers are regularly better qualified to assess the merits of an edit. I would even say that it is erroneous to quantify "user activity" or "editor attrition" by number of new user registrations, or by new users with +1 edits, but that "regular users" is the important metric: "users that watch articles". I don't know how to count those users, but for the trends we can take these old stats 2013/2014 about article numbers (in thousands=k) and number of "superuser" (phantasyname for user with >100 edits per month) and calculate the number of articles "to watch" per superuser (in thousands=k) : You notice the wikis with lots of botgenerated articles, but this is not my point here: More articles over time and not more users over time = problem to watch articles and maintain quality. In July 2013 every "superuser" would have to watch 1300 articles, to have all articles watched (by all 3281 "superusers"). In August 2014 every "superuser" would have to watch 1500 articles, to have all articles watched (by all 3056 "superusers"). We need watchers!

2) There is another aspect, that may be a problem. New users attention could be diverted by the more prominent colourful notifications (introduced in 2013). And while the notifications are about me-me-me (my edits, my conversations, my thanks, my status, my reverts, ...), the watchlist is about the articles, about actual Wikipedia content. In the old days, there was only the watchlist and the users talkpage - now the notifications could distract contributors from that. I found some research about the introduction of notifications in 2013, which seems to support my concerns that the competition for user attention between the "me-me-me-notifications-bling-icon" vs. "static watchlist-link" has harmful effects on productivity: meta:Research:Notifications/Experiment_1: ''Our results suggest that the presence of Notifications effectively increases the amount of activity that new users will engage in (more edits, more edit sessions and more hours spent editing). However, the effect of Notifications on the productivity of new users is unclear. On average, users with Notifications were less likely to make productive contributions to articles, but in our experiment, a few highly productive newcomers made up some of the difference. Our results also show that newcomers with Notifications enabled are more burdensome. They made more edits that were reverted by others and they were more likely to be blocked.''

3) I think showing the word "watch" (or not) is the kind of small change that you don't notice if you have clicked the watchstar dozends of times, but that can have a real impact for how new users use Wikipedia and how much they are "dragged in" by the watchlist.

4) I think we should do A/B testing to find out if there is an effect for new users. It would be a very small change, there can't be any harm and the test would be limited to a certain period. What do you think?

5) Another way to make people notice the watch-star could be to display the watch-star on the Hovercard (see beta-features Hovercard, really cool feature). --Atlasowa (talk) 17:52, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Today, my watchlist passed 20,000. Will this help lower the minimum for other people? -- Red rose64 (talk) 19:42, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Ha, I like you :-D --Atlasowa (talk) 21:34, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Redrose64: Just saw that you're no. 419 of Database_reports/Most-watched users, you're royalty! I definitely think that people should stop watching Little Barrier Island (~4000 watchers, Database_reports/Most-watched_pages), go watch a bird! (prefererably botgenerated and from Africa) --Atlasowa (talk) 21:51, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
 * It's out of date. I now have 208 watchers, according to [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Redrose64&action=info page information]. -- Red rose64 (talk) 22:01, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Thank you! Surely we could replace the star with "Watch" or "Unwatch," as the case may be?? 22:47, 25 February 2015 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by GeorgeLouis (talk • contribs)
 * Little Barrier Island is the result of pagemove vandalism (see WP:STOCKS); the Main Page got moved to Hauturu/Little Barrier Island some time back, so everyone watching the Main Page ended up with both pages on their watchlists. Probably a lot of the watchers are no longer active, since we don't currently have a ton of active editors who were active when the event happened.  Nyttend (talk) 02:32, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Interesting to see that nobody notices that the word "Watch" outside of the context of MediaWiki is probably less 'informing' and meaningful (so even more mystery meat) than the 'star' icon is to all people. If I remember correctly, that was confirmed by user testing in 2009 and actually led the Vector team to switch away from that word to a more common representation that people know from bookmarks etc. —Th e DJ (talk • contribs) 13:27, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
 * [citation needed] :-) TheDJ: link? --Atlasowa (talk) 22:18, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
 * https://usability.wikimedia.org/wiki/What%27s_new,_questions_and_answers#Where_did_the_watch_tab_go? Still looking for the data, though. --Atlasowa (talk) 17:39, 27 February 2015 (UTC)

Wow. Many old-timers only dimly remember our pre-WP days, which is why software is tested on the innocent. So, the whole concept of article watching, is what newbies don't get. Once that's understood, the question of star or word becomes a small one. And we've stumbled into a slightly related topic, the poor interface for mobile. That's one reason why I seldom use my Android phone for editing, and not often my iPad. The idea of an intermediate level of interface, showing as much as my real computer does but not relying on hover box or tooltip (the distinction makes little difference) is appealing but our clever and industrious software developers are already 'way behind the likes of Facebook or GMail in serving the various platforms. It seems a bit much to add to their load. Jim.henderson (talk) 13:49, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
 * We are getting into some serious and arcane in-groupishness here. How and where do I make an official request to replace the star with a word or (better) a phrase? GeorgeLouis (talk) 17:15, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
 * . -- Red rose64 (talk) 17:17, 26 February 2015 (UTC)

"looking at your watchlist is the engine of Wikipedia" I have over 8000 pages on my watchlist. It's not quite as useful as you might image. :-) Maury Markowitz (talk) 00:23, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Maury Markowitz, I'm dead serious about "watchlists = the engine of Wikipedia". The individual watchlist is a small cog in the machine, but together watchlists are the engine. Because they feed editor attention. We can see the effect of watchlists in "editing burst" at articles. Even after bots: articles show up in watchlists and are checked and edited by other editors afterwards. Editing is contagious :-) --Atlasowa (talk) 18:14, 27 February 2015 (UTC)

mw:Mobile_Beta/Watchlist/Logging :
 * Account creation hooks like the watchlist star are an effective way to draw more new users to sign up: Over half (56%) of new users creating an account on mobile came directly from the watchlist star CTA. This number is an underestimate of users coming from the CTA, since we were not logging users who first visited the login link from the CTA and then tapped on Create account from the login page.


 * New users may not understand or value the watchlist star feature as much as existing Wikimedians: The vast majority of one-time watchlist star users were brand-new Wikimedians who had registered via mobile. However, the vast majority of users who tapped the star more than once were existing users who already had a Wikimedia account.


 * Very few users are unwatching pages from their watchlist view: Either most users are not finding their watchlist view, or the unwatch-from-watchlist feature is not useful for those who do find it.


 * Overall, the watchlist star hook + account creation has proven to be a very effective new account creation funnel, helping arrest the year-over-year decline of new account creations: Since the full deployment of account creation and watchlist star to the mobile web, new account creations have held steady at about 800 global registrations/400 English Wikipedia registrations per day. These additional account are pushing the hourly registration rates up to 2012 levels.

Maybe we should have: And when you click watch, the star starts *spinning* AND above the watchlist icon should *blink* or *glow*, so that you see these things are connected. --Atlasowa (talk) 17:53, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
 * and above:
 * and above:

Linking to IPV6 user accounts
2602:304:b1ae:8970:2186:8b44:f7ad:ef34 results in this 2602:304:b1ae:8970:2186:8b44:f7ad:ef34. The text is the IP, but the link goes to User. Oiyarbepsy (talk) 05:43, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Yes, that's how piped links work. Did you mean, which produces ? Regards,  Orange Suede Sofa  (talk) 05:48, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Or perhaps you meant  → User:2602:304:b1ae:8970:2186:8b44:f7ad:ef34 - colon, not pipe. -- Red rose64 (talk) 11:10, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Doh, now I feel like an idiot. Oiyarbepsy (talk) 19:43, 27 February 2015 (UTC)

If subpages in mainspace are "disabled", why aren't they disabled?
Subpages tells us that "in main namespace (article namespace) ... the subpage feature has been disabled in the English Wikipedia". So how could a page such as Barbara Borts/Temp get created? It's the second one of these I've come across in the last few days (editors apparently find it counter-intuitive to work on a draft in talkspace). Might it be an idea to actually disable mainspace subpages if people aren't supposed to make them? Or limit the capability to admins or something? Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 17:54, 27 February 2015 (UTC)


 * "disabled" does not mean that pagenames with '/' are impossible. It just means they are treated like any other mainspace pagename, and the features associated with subpages do not apply. For example, Barbara Borts/Temp has no automatically added link to Barbara Borts at the top. Compare to Talk:Barbara Borts/Temp which does have a link to Talk:Barbara Borts. The talk page is a subpage but the mainspace page is not. This is admittedly confusing. PrimeHunter (talk) 17:59, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
 * I don't know how common mistaken "subpages" in mainspace are but it would be possible in MediaWiki:Titleblacklist to limit creation of '/' in mainspace to admins. There are many valid reasons for '/' in article titles, like OS/2 and 9/11 Commission, so it would inconvenience many non-admins. PrimeHunter (talk) 18:08, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the reply. Yes, I see (and knew) that names with a slash are possible; I too am unsure how often the mistake is made, I just happen to have seen it twice in a short space (both times experienced editors rewriting copyvio pages). It may be better to live with that level of background noise. But what is easily fixed is the documentation: if subpages are not disabled, we shouldn't really be saying that they are. If what we actually mean is "mainspace pages containing a slash character do not become subpages; instead, the whole name is treated as the pagename", then that might be a better way of explaining it. Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 20:59, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Go forth and update that documentation. --Izno (talk) 22:11, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
 * But they are disabled. Subpages are a feature which can be enabled or disabled in each namespace with mw:Manual:$wgNamespacesWithSubpages. It's called enable and disable in the MediaWiki documentation and those are the common and perfectly fine names for features which can, well, be enabled or disabled. It's used about hundreds of MediaWiki and Wikipedia features. Subpages is not a technical help page but an editing guideline in project space. It starts: Except in main namespace (article namespace), where the subpage feature has been disabled in the English Wikipedia, subpages are pages separated with a "/" (a slash) from their 'parent' page.
 * Click "subpage feature" to learn more about the feature. That's how we work. A page may have some info about something and link to a page with more info. Subpages also explains that articles can have slashes in the title. PrimeHunter (talk) 23:41, 27 February 2015 (UTC)

I can't login to Wikimedia
I tried nominating a Wikimedia user page for deletion due to WP:G11, however, I'm failing to login because everytime I refresh it never logs me in, instead it shows me the Central login message. How can I fix this? --<b style="color: red">Toon</b><b style="color: blue">Lucas</b><b style="color: red">22</b> (<i style= "color:green">talk</i>) 22:02, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
 * The Wikimedia Foundation runs a lot of wikis and some of them don't allow account creation or login without permission. Please post a link to the page you want deleted and the page where you try to log in. PrimeHunter (talk) 23:14, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
 * This page I want deleted. --<b style="color: red">Toon</b><b style="color: blue">Lucas</b><b style="color: red">22</b> (<i style= "color:green">talk</i>) 23:19, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
 * That's... weird. Special:CentralAuth/ToonLucas22 looks ok.  Have you tried going directly to meta to log in (m:Special:UserLogin)?(I've marked that page for deletion myself, and created it blank here.  I'm sure we'll be seeing lots, lots more block and deleted-userpage evasion of this sort in the future.) —Cryptic 23:37, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
 * You didn't post the requested link to the page where you try to log in. The wiki of the user page is called meta or Meta-Wiki and not Wikimedia so I wonder whether it's another wiki you try to log in at. Please post the url of the login page. PrimeHunter (talk) 23:51, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
 * I try to log in to m:Special:UserLogin. --<b style="color: red">Toon</b><b style="color: blue">Lucas</b><b style="color: red">22</b> (<i style= "color:green">talk</i>) 00:11, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
 * OK, that's meta where your account was created in December and should work. Does Help:Logging in help? Note that browsers can have site-dependent settings. Can you log in at which is also on wikimedia.org? PrimeHunter (talk) 00:26, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Nope, I can't log in there either. I refresh, still gives me Central Login message. --<b style="color: red">Toon</b><b style="color: blue">Lucas</b><b style="color: red">22</b> (<i style= "color:green">talk</i>) 00:36, 28 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Try others at Wikimedia sister projects and see if it's limited to wikimedia.org. Try another browser if you can. Look for site-dependent cookie and security settings in your browser. Or just drop the whole thing if you only need to edit Wikipedia. PrimeHunter (talk) 02:43, 28 February 2015 (UTC)