Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)/Archive 148

History splits for files - problems
So, at times it happens that people upload more than one image to a file page and that these images are unrelated. These are then tagged Split media, which recently was rewritten by to recommend a WP:HISTSPLIT procedure based on concerns about losing the upload history raised in a TfD discussion by. I've been performing the procedure a few times but I've seen that the vast majority of media requiring splitting tend to have a few issues: Because of these issues, I wonder if the recommendation of using history splitting is in fact a good one, and how to address such problems if a history split is warranted anyway.Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 11:47, 12 July 2016 (UTC)
 * The page history does not always record an upload event. In that case, a history split may result in a file which has an upload visible in the page but no page history showing such an upload.
 * Intervening edits between uploads by third editors, or a reupload by another editor, mean that if a history split is done, the edits to the file text (namely, license templates and description) end up being misattributed to the more recent uploader if the previous history is split off.
 * This is the process used on Commons and the same process has typically been used on Wikipedia too. If you are afraid of losing important attribution of revisions of the text page, you could ask an importer or steward to duplicate the text page by exporting it as an XML file and then importing it somewhere else in the file namespace. You will then have two identical copies of the same text page history, I think.
 * Mediawiki makes a null edit to the page when you upload a new revision of a file. If the file was uploaded more than a few years ago, there is no such null edit. Is there a problem if no "upload edit" is included in the page history?
 * If the uploader hasn't made any edits to the page (other than an automatic null edit resulting from the uploader uploading the file), then the uploader hasn't provided any source or licensing information other than information which has been provided in the upload log summary. In such situations, the file typically needs to be nominated for deletion (instead of being split) due to lack of sufficient information, although there could be some situations where the log summary or the uploader's userpage or another page contains sufficient information. If, after a split, the file information page ends up having copyright tags or other information which refers to another file, then you need to change this information on the page and note in the edit summary why you are changing this information. --Stefan2 (talk) 11:54, 13 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Technically, losing attribution is not the problem as much as edits being misattributed, which is also an issue when one history splits a file where not all uploads have a null edit. I've nominated some files for discussion when the intermediary uploads had questionable copyright status but that is the exception more than the rule.Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 15:52, 14 July 2016 (UTC)

The Night Manager
Currently, the Episodes section of The Night Manager (miniseries) displays the following error:
 * Lua error in Module:Episode_table at line 83: malformed pattern (ends with '%').

I have no idea how to fix this. If someone with more technical expertise could fix this, it would be greatly appreciated. Also I apologize if this is the wrong place to put this. JudgeRM  (talk to me)  17:27, 14 July 2016 (UTC)
 * I suspect that is to blame. -- Red rose64 (talk) 18:21, 14 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Seems like has fixed the issue.Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 18:33, 14 July 2016 (UTC)

Creating a new page: diff not available II
I'm sure that Village pump (technical)/Archive 127 got fixed - it's broken again. -- Red rose64 (talk) 18:48, 14 July 2016 (UTC)

Template documentation
I'm updating the template documentation for Series overview, and I'm adding the new documentation test cases. Typically, I've always had two copies of an example, one in "pre" tags and under a collapsible section, then then the second instance of the code being the actual example. However, that means having to update two instances of every example every time a change occurs or a fix is implemented. Is there a template for doing this with only one instance of the code, like Test case nowiki, but without the headers or second test case? Or should I just make my own template to do this? Alex&#124;The&#124;Whovian ? 09:40, 13 July 2016 (UTC)
 * At WT:CS1, frequently uses a template called  which passes one set of params into both the live and sandbox versions of a template. Clearly this is not directly suitable for your needs, but may provide ideas. -- Red rose64 (talk) 09:51, 13 July 2016 (UTC)
 * AlexTheWhovian, it would be great if you would pick up where Module:DemoTemplate left off. &mdash;  Cp i r al &sect; Cpiral  19:01, 13 July 2016 (UTC)
 * It shouldn't be hard to extend Module:Template test case to do what you need. I think the easiest way would be to add two new arguments, showheader and showtemplate2, and then create a new wrapper template where no and no are the default. Any suggestions for the template name? — Mr. Stradivarius  ♪ talk ♪ 23:37, 13 July 2016 (UTC)
 * I've now implemented no and no in Module:Template test case. You can test them out using test case nowiki. As for the template name with these arguments as default, how about Template:Nowiki template demo? — Mr. Stradivarius  ♪ talk ♪ 03:15, 15 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Brilliant. Thanks for that! (I reverted to my default method of duplicating the cases when I updated the documentation). And Template:Nowiki template demo works perfectly fine for me. Alex&#124;The&#124;Whovian ? 03:17, 15 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Nowiki template demo is now working, and I've changed the module to not require the  magic word if there is only one template being displayed. — Mr. Stradivarius  ♪ talk ♪ 05:48, 15 July 2016 (UTC)

Self edit conflicts
Is anyone else getting regular edit conflict with yourself and diffs of your own comment pre and post signature application? I get it in about one out of 10 talk edits. Is it just a problem with my signature or is this a general problem that can be fixed? Timothy Joseph Wood 23:07, 11 July 2016 (UTC)
 * I frequently get this when I "double click" the Return key to save my edit. Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 01:34, 14 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Can you clarify what you mean by "pre and post signature application"? Don't you sign your comments before you post? And what "diffs of your own comment" are you talking about? Can you provide diffs of examples? Softlavender (talk) 16:56, 14 July 2016 (UTC)


 * By the way,, this should be at WP:VPT, as it's not an idea for something new, but rather a technical question. Softlavender (talk) 18:36, 14 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Sorry about that. Didn't know exactly where to post. I guess it's not really a diff, since edit conflicts don't create any permanent record. It's the pseudo-diff you get in an edit conflict, except both your text and the conflicting text is your own comment, one with "~" and the other with " Timothy Joseph Wood ". Not sure how else to explain it. I will try to screen shot next time it happens. Or maybe I should sit on it and post over at VPT when I get a screen shot. Timothy Joseph Wood  18:50, 14 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Here you go. Timothy Joseph Wood  20:02, 14 July 2016 (UTC)
 * If you make an edit, save it, use the "Back" button to return to the editing window, make a small change and try to save again, you will get an edit conflict with yourself. If you have saved an edit, you need a fresh editing session - one where you explicitly clicked an "edit" link after the last save to that page. So use the "Back" button sufficient times to get to a view of the page which does not have an editing window, then go for "edit". -- Red rose64 (talk) 07:57, 15 July 2016 (UTC)

Incorrect protection template?
Why is showing up in Category:Wikipedia pages with incorrect protection templates? – nyuszika7h (talk) 12:18, 13 July 2016 (UTC)

And apparently Pokémon Go is, too. nyuszika7h (talk) 12:20, 13 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Is it to do with the move protection? — crh 23   &thinsp;(Talk) 13:40, 13 July 2016 (UTC)
 * might have some idea &mdash; Martin (MSGJ · talk) 14:04, 13 July 2016 (UTC)
 * It seems to happen when  is used on a semi-protected page where the protection expires later today, so maybe something is only checking the date and not time of day. I don't know Lua. PrimeHunter (talk) 14:11, 13 July 2016 (UTC)
 * I was thinking the same thing, so I removed the pp template from the article and it disappeared from the category. Can't do same with the redirect since protection notification is hard-wired through the This is a redirect template.  The redirect should fall out of the category on its own later today.  Wikipedian Sign Language  Paine   14:22, 13 July 2016 (UTC)
 * PS. Have added a note to the category page about the This is a redirect transclusions. PS added by  Paine 
 * The redir was still listed in the cat page when I checked just now, although the cat wasn't shown at the bottom of the redir page. A WP:NULLEDIT to the redir page has caused it to be no longer listed at the cat page. -- Red rose64 (talk) 20:40, 13 July 2016 (UTC)
 * I had tried that earlier - perhaps it was the protection expiring? — xaosflux  Talk 22:12, 13 July 2016 (UTC)
 * I don't have time to check properly now, but I think the reason might be an invalid reason parameter. — Mr. Stradivarius  ♪ talk ♪ 00:48, 14 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Pokémon Go is back in the category – it was reprotected with an expiry of 14 July 2016 at 20:15. I hesitate to remove the pp template again as right now it's only 01:31, 14 July 2016 (UTC).  Wikipedian Sign Language  Paine   01:31, 14 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Ok, I've found the problem, and it's got nothing to do with the reason parameter. The problem is that Module:Effective protection expiry returns a date in YYYY-MM-DD format, which is converted to Unix time by Module:Protection banner. The original YYYY-MM-DD format doesn't have the time of day in it, so when it is compared to the current time in Unix time (up to the current second), the loss of precision causes the expiry to be interpreted as earlier than the current time, even though it is really later - just as PrimeHunter thought. would it break anything if Module:Effective protection expiry was altered to output the expiry time as well as the date? — Mr. Stradivarius  ♪ talk ♪ 03:00, 14 July 2016 (UTC)
 * I've updated Module:Effective protection expiry to output dates in  format instead of   format. That should fix this problem. I have checked with the search function and I don't think any modules or templates should be adversely affected by this change, but it might be worth keeping a lookout for new protection-expiry-related issues that could be caused by this. — Mr. Stradivarius  ♪ talk ♪ 02:56, 16 July 2016 (UTC)

Orphan template not displaying
It displays when the date is July 2016, but not other dates. Example:


 * No display
 * Display

Odd.

Anna Frodesiak (talk) 23:14, 15 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Would explain why none of those categories are dropping anymore. Doesn't show up outside of multiple anymore. Someone changed this back in February I think. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 23:20, 15 July 2016 (UTC)
 * The behaviour is documented at Template:Orphan. PrimeHunter (talk) 23:22, 15 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I see the change was made here in March 2014. We can discuss if we want that I guess at the template talk page. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 23:26, 15 July 2016 (UTC)
 * There are already plenty of threads on this matter at Template talk:Orphan, going back about two and a half years - the earliest related thread on that page is Template talk:Orphan#Discussion on placement. Pick one of those to add a comment to, no need for another new thread. -- Red rose64 (talk) 08:27, 16 July 2016 (UTC)


 * Thank you, Redrose64. Best wishes. :) Anna Frodesiak (talk) 09:40, 16 July 2016 (UTC)

BBC use of https
On the BBC blog: Enabling Secure HTTP for BBC Online. Since the switch-over isn't complete, and will never apply to some archive pages, we can't apply a bot wholesale, but could do so for some templates, and some other links. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 19:11, 16 July 2016 (UTC)

Petscan (formerly Catscan)
Why is Petscan (https://petscan.wmflabs.org/), formerly known as Catscan, unavailable so often?

It has been saying  throughout this morning, for the umpteenth time this week. Is there some wider problem with wmflabs, or is this just Petscan? -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 11:03, 16 July 2016 (UTC)
 * it appears to be back up, here is where you can file an issues report: . — xaosflux  Talk 21:54, 16 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Thanks, . -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 21:59, 16 July 2016 (UTC)

HELP Welcome - template?
HELP Welcome - re template - PROBLEM => in the "present template code", "bar8" (re "Homo habilis" which appears between "-2.800 to -1.500" mya in the fossil record) ("bar8-to= -1.500") should overlap "bar9" (re "Homo erectus" which appears between "-1.800 to -0.070" mya in the fossil record) in the template timeline in some way - but goes to "-1.800" instead (due to "bar9-from=-1.800"?) - (Note: also related - "Neanderthal" appears between "-0.600 to -0.040" mya in the fossil record & template timeline - as well as - "Homo sapiens idaltu", from "-0.160 to 0.000" mya) - in any case - any help sorting out this code would be appreciated - Thanks in advance for any consideration with this issue - and - Enjoy! ) Drbogdan (talk) 14:43, 14 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Take a look at Human timeline/sandbox. Is that more like what you want? It's not perfect, but I tried to make the different bars visually distinct. You can see the code differences with this link. – Jonesey95 (talk) 22:17, 14 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Thank you *very much* for your efforts - they're *greatly* appreciated - my ideal (which may, or may not, be possible) would be to extend a narrow vertical (on the far left side) from the present "-1.800" of the "Homo habilis" area upward to "-1.500" *into* the "Homo erectus" area - see => "similar area HERE which needs to be "moved" rightward *from* the outside on the left side *to within* the left side instead if possible" - so far, I've not been able to do this with the coding - in any case - Thanks again for your efforts - and - Enjoy! :) Drbogdan (talk) 23:38, 14 July 2016 (UTC)

✅ - BRIEF Followup - Thanks again for your efforts with this - seems I may have found the solution to the coding issue - if interested, the adjusted coding may be found at the following => Human timeline/sandbox and HERE - Thanks again for your efforts - and - Enjoy! :) Drbogdan (talk) 14:56, 17 July 2016 (UTC)

Long navbox template
In October 1915, the "Events by month links" navbox appears longer than in other month articles such as September 1915. GeoffreyT2000 (talk) 05:16, 17 July 2016 (UTC)
 * A purge of September 1915 also made it use the whole page width there instead of only being as wide as the text. It's caused by [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Module:Navbox&curid=38634746&diff=730005287&oldid=679896088 this] edit to Module:Navbox by User:Matt Fitzpatrick. PrimeHunter (talk) 10:19, 17 July 2016 (UTC)
 * My edit broke width:auto. Sorry! I'll let the talk page know, and start working on a fix tonight. Matt Fitzpatrick (talk) 22:07, 17 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Looks like another alternative is to change the table-dependent width:auto; min-width:35em; to width:35em; margin-left:auto; margin-right:auto;, if that's acceptable? See testcases. Matt Fitzpatrick (talk) 22:35, 17 July 2016 (UTC)

Edit with no difference but one character addition
Some time back, at the help desk, had given an example of an edit that resulted in no difference but the addition of one character. While gave a reasonably guiding reply, I wanted to know whether there's any template that can be used in an article to make this happen (or is there any other method by which an editor can undertake blank edits with no difference). Thanks. Lourdes 04:20, 17 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Blank edits could result from a history merge. – nyuszika7h (talk) 09:24, 17 July 2016 (UTC)
 * That's probably not the case here. However, I found the thread in question using the User Contribution Search tool. Graham 87 10:45, 17 July 2016 (UTC)
 * That's right, . I wish to find out whether there is a standard method/template by which a normal editor can leave an edit that shows "no difference" while comparing consecutive versions, as exemplified in the link I have provided below and the Help Desk discussions linked by Graham above. Thanks. Lourdes  03:19, 18 July 2016 (UTC)

Notifications
Hello, I'm not sure if this is the right venue for this but it is here anyway. I have noticed in the last week or so my notifications have changed. It used to be everything except for talk pages messages were shown on the left bell-like notification list (the red one) and the talk-page messages on the write blue talk icon with a yellow banner accompanying it. I now notice this:


 * Red
 * Pings
 * Talk-page messages


 * Blue
 * Links

I haven't had any other notifications types since the change.

What has happened? - Yellow Dingo&#160;(talk) 05:02, 18 July 2016 (UTC)


 * It looks like the relevant section was archived. See Village pump (technical)/Archive 147. — Earwig   talk  06:13, 18 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Ok that makes more sense; thanks! - Yellow Dingo&#160;<b style="color:BLUE">(talk)</b> 06:21, 18 July 2016 (UTC)

login problems--device limit? or new additional cookies required?
My Windows10 laptop got stolen on May 21, so I bought this minilaptop, which also runs Windows10 but has a smaller screen, less memory, etc. I can login into wikipedia from this machine, my desktop, and my old, reliable Windows 7 laptop (which is missing a cover for one key since my dog pranced on it). However, for the last month or so, I've wanted to use my old Windows8 laptop for wikipedia editing at various reference libraries. All the machines have all security updates installed before I start editing wikipedia; and I generally use firefox as a browser. I don't want to update either my Win7 laptop or my Win8 laptop to Windows10 because of a lot of problems with that new OS on that stolen laptop, my converted desktop machine and this minilaptop. However, for at least the last month, I cannot log into my wikipedia account on that Win8 laptop--it gives me an error message about possible hijacking, so any edits I perform on it (like on Charles R. Fenwick) don't get attributed to me. The credit part doesn't annoy me, but sometimes it's nice to be able to keep track of my contributions, particularly when coordinating several related articles. (FYI, it was running firefox 46 and now is running firefox 47, as is this machine). Now, that coordination can't happen unless I go home and remember to do some more editing of the same articles on my desktop machine.

I know using many computers sounds extravagant, but they are all cheap machines, and I've chosen that route since someone threatened/bragged about cyberstalking me a couple of years ago--the multiple devices provide some additional backup. The Win8 laptop's refusal to loginto my wikipedia account (tho I can still edit anonymously) has me wondering whether wikipedia has a numerical device login limit which I've now bumped up against. Unfortunately, some of the threatened cyberstalking seems also to occur after I login or post to wikipedia (calls from anonymous callers or illegal robocallers within a half hour of posting on wikipedia--2 days ago my new phone got an amber alert shortly after I started attributed editing on this minilaptop). From my contributions list (contrary to the error message), I've seen no evidence that I've been hijacked. If there is a device limit, someone needs to take the stolen Windows10 laptop off the devices attributed to me, so I can use the bigger screen Win8 laptop.

FYI, I tried posting a shorter version of this at the Teahouse this morning from that machine, and an editor suggested posting here. I've looked in these archives, and seen suggestions from a couple of years ago that it might be a cookie problem. However, I think I did attributed editing on that Win8 laptop several months ago, and the login problem's recent. Plus, now I'm in a public library and apparently vainly trying to download Win10 updates on this native Win10 device (although its update history says all 4 successfully downloaded and installed two days ago--as I noted above, all my Win10 devices are problematic--and this machine doesn't seem to have an option to recheck for updates though it's been hanging on 0% download for over an hour). Thus, I can't check cookies on that bigger screen laptop, which right now is virus scanning at home (because it was seemingly vainly checking for updates for over an hour this morning).

No malware has ever been found on either the Win8 laptop nor this native Win10 mini-laptop (nor the stolen laptop, if it makes any difference), although some might've been found on my desktop computer over a month ago (trouble is, its location wouldn't show, so the malware alert was either bogus or the malware was completely removed before I gave permission). Any suggestions would be appreciated--I presume you're not going to suggest I give into the cyberbully and stop editing wikipedia:)!Jweaver28 (talk) 21:07, 15 July 2016 (UTC)


 * Now the malware scan has finished (again no malware) and I brought the Win8 laptop to the library, along with the Win7 laptop that will log in. Seems the Win8 laptop is setup to accept cookies from wikipedia.org, but has none. By contrast, and to my chagrin, the Win7 laptop has been accepting cookies since the firefox upgrade, and has cookies from IMHO way too many sites, including wikidata.org (now allowed along with en.wikipedia.org and en.wikidata.org but to no effect), wikinew.org, wikiquote.org, wikisource.org and wikiversity.org and their en. subdomains), none of which I've consulted. I don't know if wikipedia has also partnered with advertising.com and other sites, but I'm now removing all cookies from that machine. I feel stupid for not noticing the settings change and would like to know what cookies wikipedia actually requires and why the allowed cookies from wikipedia.org aren't showing.173.15.51.213 (talk) 01:53, 16 July 2016 (UTC)
 * login.wikimedia.org has been the central login domain for a while now. Wikimedia does not partner with advertising.com --Malyacko (talk) 18:56, 17 July 2016 (UTC)
 * To reiterate: You will need to allow all cookies from login.wikimedia.org, wikipedia.org and en.wikipedia.org for basic login functionality. This will also TRY to set cookies for all other websites managed by wikimedia, like wikinews.org, wikiquote.org, wikisource.org, wikimedia.org and wikiversity.org. These latter ones are NOT required, but are safe. There are several cookies that might be set by these domains and a list is available. Looking at your problem description, I suspect a difference in cookie settings (either the defaults, or the ones that you have accepted/denied) between the machines. Nothing nefarious is likely (though when logging in from a public location, you should always be more carful. —Th e DJ (talk • contribs) 08:34, 18 July 2016 (UTC)

Tech News: 2016-29
<section begin="technews-2016-W29"/> Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Recent changes
 * Due to the rollback, new sorting of Notifications on the Fly-Out Menus has been deployed with a delay.
 * Octicons-tools.svg Due to the rollback, the daily special patch deployment process has been changed.
 * In notifications, "Messages" are now called "".

Problems
 * On July 12 all wikis were rolled back to MediaWiki 1.28.0-wmf.8 due to a problem in the log-in system.

Changes this week
 * Octicons-sync.svg The new version of MediaWiki will be on test wikis and MediaWiki.org from 19 July. It will be on non-Wikipedia wikis and some Wikipedias from 20 July. It will be on all wikis from 21 July (calendar).
 * Special:Log now has a help link.
 * The RevisionSlider can be tested on the beta cluster. From 22 July, it will be available as a beta feature at:, ,

Meetings
 * Octicons-sync.svg You can join the next meeting with the VisualEditor team. During the meeting, you can tell developers which bugs you think are the most important. The meeting will be on 19 July at 19:00 (UTC). See how to join.
 * Octicons-tools.svg You can join the next meeting with the Architecture committee. The topic this week is "Devise plan for a cross-wiki watchlist back-end". The meeting will be on 20 July at 21:00 (UTC). See how to join.

Future changes
 * User scripts and bots can no longer use http:// to edit wiki pages.
 * Octicons-tools.svg Gerrit is going to be updated. Developers are invited to test it.

Tech news prepared by tech ambassadors and posted by bot • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe. <section end="technews-2016-W29"/> 12:01, 18 July 2016 (UTC)

Project:AWB links in edit summaries broken
It seems AWB is showing up literally in AWB edit summaries (see my contributions for an example). Does anyone have an idea what's causing this? nyuszika7h (talk) 14:17, 18 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Could you try running another task, such as a regex spellcheck on a couple of random pages? It looks like it could be caused by the open link syntax at the beginning of the edit summary -- samtar talk or stalk 14:21, 18 July 2016 (UTC)
 * E.g. my test edit (with broken syntax) vs this test (with fixed syntax). Not entirely sure why AWB broke that though.. -- samtar talk or stalk 14:23, 18 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Yes, that seems to be the problem, as this works, though I'm pretty sure I remember this still working correctly earlier. I left out the closing brackets because I wanted to catch piped links too. nyuszika7h (talk) 14:24, 18 July 2016 (UTC)

Redundant rights included in the bureaucrat user group
Is there a specific reason the following rights are given to bureaucrats?:


 * Create accounts with names similar to existing usernames
 * Move pages with their subpages
 * Not be affected by rate limits
 * Not create redirects from source pages when moving pages
 * Override the title or username blacklist
 * Add groups: Account creators, and Pending changes reviewers
 * Remove groups: IP block exemptions, Account creators, and Pending changes reviewers

The only necessary rights that bureaucrats need are:
 * Add groups: Flow bots, Administrators, Bureaucrats, and Bots
 * Remove groups: Flow bots, Administrators, and Bots

Should the redundant rights be removed from InitialiseSettings.php? &mdash; Music1201  talk  19:58, 16 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Most of those are left over from when the rename process was a bureaucrat task. —  xaosflux  Talk 20:12, 16 July 2016 (UTC)
 * They were a few years ago because some bureaucrats did not want to be sysops but wanted to be still able to rename accounts. Now they should be removed, of course. Ruslik_ Zero 20:15, 16 July 2016 (UTC)
 * These are not strictly "redundant", as it is not required to be a sysop to be a 'crat; however they are likely unnecessary. —  xaosflux  Talk 20:32, 16 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Has the English Wikipedia ever had a bureaucrat who wasn't an administrator? It seems impossible that the community would accept that. &mdash; Music1201  talk  01:18, 17 July 2016 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure, what I was pointing out is that when entering a phab ticket to make such a change (after cross-posting this over to WP:BN at least) the "reason" should be "no longer required" not "redundant". — xaosflux  Talk 01:25, 17 July 2016 (UTC)
 * I seem to recall seeing a discussion some years back that added some of those user rights to the bureaucrat group. The rationale behind it wasn't that someone could become a bureaucrat without becoming an admin first, but rather that a current bureaucrat may wish to step down as an admin, while retaining their bureaucrat status. Also, it is plausible that a user could become a bureaucrat before becoming an admin. I believe that there have been such nominations in the past (although the only one I can remember seeing was SNOW closed).  Omni Flames ( talk ) 01:46, 17 July 2016 (UTC)
 * The extra rights seem kind of random though. Why would non-admin bureaucrats be able to add account creator and pending changes reviewer but not rollbacker, page mover, confirmed, etc. This seems quite odd. &mdash; Music1201  talk  01:50, 17 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Correct, however with the advent of WP:SUL, the permissions listed that would be part of user-renaming are no longer required. The 'crat procedures imply that 'crats are already administrators, e.g. "If present, remove userrights made redundant by the sysop flag." though most of these can only be technically changed by administrators.  Some of those groups are older, or it wasn't very clear who would deal with them.  Personally, I think this proposal is fine as written and should be uncontroversial. —  xaosflux  Talk 01:55, 17 July 2016 (UTC)

I have opened T140550. I'll post this to WP:BN. &mdash; Music1201  talk  02:01, 17 July 2016 (UTC)

Speaking as a bureaucrat, I'd suggest that the change proposed has no benefit and potentially does harm. As such, don't rush it. Particularly as it's my understanding that there are lists of useful developer tasks reaching from here to the moon that would make this place better and are desperately waiting to be done. --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 11:08, 18 July 2016 (UTC)


 * Ping . If I recall, he was keen for a while to drop the admin flag while keeping the crat one. Not sure if that ever went anywhere. Jenks24 (talk) 12:33, 18 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Yes, I put forth a proposal some years back but not enough rights were granted to the bureaucrat group to make it a workable position in my opinion (in particular, not having the ability to view deleted revisions). I don't think the change suggested in this thread is necessary as other bureaucrats who do not wish to be administrators may feel that the current ruleset is sufficient to step down as administrator while remaining a bureaucrat. Also it may impede the work of a non-admin bureaucrat who is a global renamer. –<b style="font-family:verdana;color:#000">xeno</b><sup style="color:#000">talk 13:28, 18 July 2016 (UTC)

Xeno's comments are enough to make me oppose this proposal. --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 17:15, 18 July 2016 (UTC)
 * I'm on board with dropping this without gaining community support first, as it was changed due to community consensus previously. The place to start would be to determine what permissions are necessary for this group to fulfill their duties without also being an administrator.  The current list of duties is quite small. —  xaosflux  Talk 00:23, 19 July 2016 (UTC)

Wikidata edit summaries in watchlist
Is there some way with a userscript I could get better wikidata edit summaries in my watchlist? "Created claim: Property:P31: Q494829" is pretty much undecipherable without visiting Wikidata, whereas something like "Created claim: : " would be much more meaningful. - Evad37 &#91;talk] 02:55, 18 July 2016 (UTC)
 * This is phab:T118935. --Izno (talk) 12:14, 18 July 2016 (UTC)
 * I did actually manage to create the script I wanted – User:Evad37/WikidataWatchlistLabels.js if anyone's interested. Probably not very efficient, but at least it works for now, until the phab task is completed. - Evad37 &#91;talk] 02:20, 19 July 2016 (UTC)
 * d:User:Yair rand/DiffLists.js. --Yair rand (talk) 05:17, 19 July 2016 (UTC)

Wiki email not working?
Hey. Has anyone else noticed that the email feature stopped working? Mails I send out is not delivered, nor do I get the sent copy. (I use Outlook [@live.com] on Firefox) Reh  man  23:52, 18 July 2016 (UTC)
 * To which domain did you try to send? Also @live.com? We have numerous reports (such as T130723, T134886, T136468, T137337), like related to DMARC policies. --AKlapper (WMF) (talk) 09:42, 19 July 2016 (UTC)
 * @AKlapper (WMF): The first was to a fellow editor to whom I emailed via Special:EmailUser (I don't know his email). I didn't get a sent mail copy for that (as I selected in Special:Preferences). Then I tested emailing a user whom I know in real life (who uses @live), that user received the email only many hours later, but I still did not get a confirmation. This issue is definitely new; I mean, @live never had any issue before. It may also not be anything to do with @live.  Reh  man  13:19, 19 July 2016 (UTC)

Save Page vs Publish Page - revisited July 2016

 * (Some prior discussion is in archive 146)

This may be more than a "technical" change, but most of the prior discussion has been on this page in the past. In a upcoming server update the WMF group plans to relabel button that say "Save" to "Publish". (c.f. T131132). Local projects (such as here on the English Wikipedia) are able to replace this, and based on some prior discussions some prep work to keep "save" on enwiki has already been done. Most of the discussions were not widely participated in - so I wanted to put this out to ensure we are gathering the right community input from editors. There are not a lot of choices to make, we can keep the status-quo "Save", adopt the new labels "Publish", or come up with a (more complicated) plan (I don't recommend that at all). I don't have a strong opinion one way or the other personally and invite anyone to contribute below. Feel free to convert to RfC format or move to VP-Proposals if needed. Thank you! — xaosflux  Talk 01:37, 2 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Cross-posted to VP Proposals, linking to here. — xaosflux  Talk 20:43, 2 July 2016 (UTC)


 * Personally, I think this is not worth our time. The term "Publish" is correct and any perceived negative effects should be supported by evidence, not gut feelings. So before any measures are taken to circumvent this change, I expect to see some proof. With that in mind, I will be reverting MediaWiki:Publishpage, as there really is no broad consensus to block this. (This can change of course, but let's not pre-empt that.)  20:39, 2 July 2016 (UTC)
 * To keep them consistent, I've removed MediaWiki:Tooltip-publish and MediaWiki:Visualeditor-savedialog-label-save until this gets any traction one way or the other. — xaosflux  Talk 20:48, 2 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I didn't know about those.  20:56, 2 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Watch that we don't set a double-standard there. Without implying support for one or the other, where's the evidence supporting "Publish page"? I understand that the Phabricator task says that the change is intended to address newbie confusion over the meaning of the "Save" button, and another, linked task proposes having a separate message for creating new pages compared to editing existing ones, but … has the "publish" version had any testing of its own, anything establishing it as an improvement? In particular the "publish" version risks confusion with certain workflows, most obviously "publishing" articles by moving them from the Draft namespace to the article one. {&#123; Nihiltres &#8202;&#124;talk&#8202;&#124;edits}&#125; 20:58, 2 July 2016 (UTC)
 * The choice is between and  if I'm not mistaken. Akld guy (talk) 23:03, 2 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Actually, it's . The only change is to the verb.  Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 02:13, 3 July 2016 (UTC)
 * In that case, it has been wrongly described on the T131132 page, and wrongly described by User:Xaosflux above. Let's be clear about what it is that we're being asked to decide. Akld guy (talk) 03:40, 3 July 2016 (UTC)
 * and MediaWiki:Publishpage show the default change is from to . T131132 and Village pump (technical)/Archive 146 inaccurately say "Publish". Per T139033 it may later become  for page creations and  for edits to existing pages. PrimeHunter (talk) 11:42, 3 July 2016 (UTC)
 * So it is not set yet. In any case, we seem to make a sport of blocking any visual changes. What is the point in developing the software if we continue to block them? As for evidence; the WMF held some interviews with users, and that is more then can be said of us. Perhaps Whatamidoing can share some of that intel?  12:45, 3 July 2016 (UTC)
 * I did invite Whatami to share, (she is looking in to it). —  xaosflux  Talk 13:48, 3 July 2016 (UTC)

There is no logical reason for blocking this change, which brings us into line with virtually every other CMS on the Web. —  Scott  •  talk  13:23, 3 July 2016 (UTC)
 * I popped over to some of the other websites on List_of_wikis after sorting by articles - some of the larger ones (AboutUs.com, WikiMapia, TV Tropes) are all using "Save" and/or "Save changes". — xaosflux  Talk 13:48, 3 July 2016 (UTC)
 * What do you mean by "CMS"? -- Red rose64 (talk) 18:16, 3 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Oh - content management system. Re Xaosflux, we should be looking to compare ourselves to things that aren't wikis, given that MediaWiki is a leading player in the sector that many other engines draw influence from. Just because we've been doing it a long time (since the transition from UseModWiki, which itself was based on WikiWikiWeb) doesn't mean that it's the right thing - rather it's indicative of the resistance to change that Edokter mentioned, combined with the notoriously slow pace of development of our software. —  Scott  •  talk  18:40, 3 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Well, every other site where I, erm, save a page says "save" not "publish". I have a hard time imagining any internet user who doesn't understand that "save" means that what they just wrote will be publicly viewable after they click the button.  This is bikeshedding to the extreme, and I cannot for the life of me understand why anyone would think that new users are confused about what will happen if they click a button that says "save".  Frankly, I think they're going to be a darn sight less certain about clicking a button that says "publish page". Risker (talk) 05:28, 4 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Concur with the above, but I'll reiterate what I said in an earlier discussion. It's a trivial difference considering the many far more significant obstacles to entry as an editor. If this is a significant problem for them they won't be around much longer anyway. Virtually all editors, doing their first edit, will look for something that says "Save", not find it, and decide to try "Publish" instead. They will discover that it does what they wanted to do, and then they will no longer care what the button says. &#8213; Mandruss  &#9742;  05:48, 4 July 2016 (UTC)
 * For more context, there was this followup thread on my talk page after the May discussion about this change. I didn't get the impression that any testing with the "Publish" version had been done (at least, not at the time), which is really the only way to settle the issue of whether it's more or less confusing. Opabinia regalis (talk) 05:51, 4 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Mandruss is right - to suggest that users would be bamboozled by changing "Save" to "Publish" is to vastly under-credit their intelligence. It's so trivial that testing is completely unnecessary. This is bikeshedding to the extreme - yes, Risker, that's exactly what you're doing. —  Scott  •  talk  10:36, 4 July 2016 (UTC)
 * By that logic, we could change the button to "qqyyzz page" and the editor would "look for something that says 'save', not find it, and decide to try 'qqyyzz page' instead. They will discover that it does what they wanted to do, and then they will no longer care what the button says." So should we next change "publish page" to "qqyyzz page"? There is nothing wrong with "Save Page" -- if it is "so trivial", then why is it necessary to change it? It's the responsibility of those suggesting change to prove that the change is necessary.--William Thweatt TalkContribs 10:53, 4 July 2016 (UTC)
 * I would submit that "Publish" is a closer approximation of "Save" than "qqyyzz" is. The rest is a question of process, of whether the change had some appropriate level of discussion and consensus. I'm not claiming that the change is so trivial that it didn't need that discussion and consensus; it is not. On the other hand, I don't declare a consensus void because I wasn't included and strongly disagree with the result. So my position would depend on the history of the change, of which I'm ignorant. &#8213; Mandruss  &#9742;  11:07, 4 July 2016 (UTC)

Between post-Wikimania travel and the US holidays, it's hard to track down the staff responsible for this right now. However, to answer a few minor points above:


 * WordPress has a "Publish" button, which is separate from "Save" (the private behavior that is expected by some users during interviews). Wikihow uses "Publish" (and "Discard" rather than "Cancel").
 * As noted above, checking other wikis is not necessarily a valid search, because MediaWiki software is the default for all MediaWiki wikis is currently "Save page". Also, those wikis will change to "Publish page" after this change is made (and they update their software).
 * Speaking of "after this change is made", there's no particular rush to get this done. It might happen later this month; it might get postponed again.  I don't know when this will happen.
 * I tend to be sympathetic to the "bikeshedding" comments. This change seems to be worth the trivial amount of dev work to make the change (e.g., making this change will make Legal happy, which is a Good Thing™), but very few experienced editors are going to be affected.  Or even notice.  I don't normally see that button on my screen; with the size of my wikitext window, it is just below the scroll.  When I'm done with my edits, I just hit Tab four times and press Return.  I know that was meant as hyperbole, but it really could be  for all it would matter to me.

Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 17:13, 4 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Four tabs? That's three more than me - once, type in edit summary, press . Or  if I had used  or  mid-edit. -- Red rose64 (talk) 19:49, 4 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Once to reach the Edit summary, then the minor edit tick box, then the watchlist tickbox, and finally I reach "Save page". Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 16:05, 5 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Try it with one tab and Return. -- Red rose64 (talk) 18:42, 5 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Personally, I made a user script to disable that behavior after accidentally submitting one too many times. Anomie⚔ 19:48, 5 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Anomie, would your script stop the "oops, I double-clicked the Return key and got an edit conflict with myself" problem? And is the cost taking my hands off the keyboard to scroll down and click that button?
 * Redrose, if you see this, then one tab and return worked. ;-)   (I've prefilled my edit summary.)  Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 20:10, 5 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Probably, if it's two returns in the edit summary box. The cost would be that you have to keep on doing the four-tabs that you have been doing, no one tab plus return. Anomie⚔ 20:47, 5 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Coming to the party a bit late, I figured I ought to chime in and say that this sounds like a good idea. It seems like we're always having to help the folks who misunderstand what "save" does, especially because "save" routinely means other stuff in computing contexts, e.g. Saved game.  Just please put up a short writeup to which we can point editors who ask what's going on: in a few sentences, explain what's been done and why.  Nyttend (talk) 04:11, 9 July 2016 (UTC)

Also late to the discussion. Without having thought about this too much or even read all the background carefully, my gut instinct is that this would mostly be a lateral change and any perceived improvement is comparable in size to the disruption it will cause. I don't feel strongly about it, however, either way. But if changing the button text is going to be entertained, all possibilities ought to be put on the table and my quick glance over the discussion and phab report did not see that the discussion has considered the idea of a button. Such a button may capture perceived benefits of each word while still being short enough to be acceptable. 2c. Jason Quinn (talk) 13:55, 11 July 2016 (UTC)
 * The change can't happen without James F's agreement, and he's completely opposed to "Save and publish". We continue to work on him, but, to be candid, our hopes are dim on that score.  Apparently it is particularly infelicitous (i.e., long and awkward) when translated into some languages.  Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 23:59, 11 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Very few things would translate easily to all languages. That's why the act of translation is half mechanical but also half art. Thank you very much for the update. See you around. Jason Quinn (talk) 12:15, 13 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Will it also say "publish page" for pages protected with Pending changes?; because the normal user doesn't publish that type of pages... Christian75 (talk) 14:10, 14 July 2016 (UTC)
 * I assume it will say "Submit changes" as it currently does. &mdash; Music1201  talk  15:21, 19 July 2016 (UTC)

Edits on English WP showing up on German WP Contributions log
I was idly browsing around when I ended up on de.WP where I noticed that my contributions log was not a redlink, so I looked and found that edits I've done on English articles are showing up there as if I edited the equivalent German articles, which I haven't. I can barely figure out what a German text is about, there's no way I can write the language. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 11:52, 18 July 2016 (UTC)
 * They were probably x-wiki imported there. This is not unexpected. --Izno (talk) 11:57, 18 July 2016 (UTC)
 * I just came across some unexpected behavior with respect to this. I was curious about my own "contributions" elsewhere, and when I ran the global contributions tool, I found that I had some imported edits to templates on two unattached wikis. Once I visited those wikis, thus attaching them to my SUL, those edits disappeared from my list of contributions on those wikis. ​—DoRD (talk)​ 12:24, 18 July 2016 (UTC)
 * This is Village pump (technical)/Archive 147.
 * It's happened to me too, it's apparently a known problem, but I can't find the previous thread or phab ticket. -- Red rose64 (talk) 18:46, 18 July 2016 (UTC)
 * The Phabricator task is T36873. GeoffreyT2000 (talk) 20:40, 18 July 2016 (UTC)
 * I had seen this when looking at my contribution list on the German Wikipedia. What it implies is that the history of content development is being preserved, when an article starts out as English and is then translated to German. So if you wonder how some previous editor reached a conclusion (or want to ask them more about sources) you know who to ask. Provided you and the original content editor have at least one language in common. Even though it looks strange, this feature has potential benefits. The same thing happens for articles cross-wiki imported from German into English. For example, look at the edit history of Gymnasium St. Augustine, an article imported from the German wiki by User:Xaosflux. By clicking on versions in the history, you'll see that those prior to May 30 are in German. The current article was translated to English on May 30. So I vote for keeping the cross-wikied contributions in the history of the imported article. Whether it's helpful to see them in the contributions list of the person within the importing wiki I suppose could be argued. EdJohnston (talk) 20:51, 18 July 2016 (UTC)
 * this can be done in theory with Special:Import. Special:export can make a file that contains all the history. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 08:49, 20 July 2016 (UTC)

Category with red line error - Expression error: Unrecognized punctuation character ",".
Greetings, At Category:American people stubs the above message shows in red immediately above the horizontal "Contents" bar. I'm reporting here because this is way beyond anything I know how to fix. Asking for help please. Regards, <span class="plainlinks" style="background: rgba(0,0,0,.05);">— JoeHebda • (talk) 20:47, 20 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Fixed by adding  to a magic word to get a raw number without commas.[//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Stub_category&diff=730728886&oldid=729524260] Affected categories can be fixed with a purge before the job queue automatically gets to them. PrimeHunter (talk) 21:05, 20 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Thanks Cheers! <span class="plainlinks" style="background: rgba(0,0,0,.05);">— JoeHebda • (talk) 21:11, 20 July 2016 (UTC)

51.171.156.10
[begin text copied from WP:AN]

I've just blocked this IP for vandalism after warnings and while I was blocking a popup popped into my screen saying You are blocking a sensitive IP address belonging to the UK Parliament. Please be sure to notify the Wikimedia Foundation Communications Committee immediately. I don't see the IP on the WP:SIP list nor WHOIS data consistent with the warning. What is going on? Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 22:11, 10 July 2016 (UTC)
 * That IP appears to geolocate to Eircom, county Sligo, and I'm pretty sure the UK Parliament doesn't operate from there ;-) Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 22:27, 10 July 2016 (UTC)
 * But it's unusual, as well as undesirable, for a popup to say it is the UK Parliament (at Special:Block/51.171.156.10). Maybe someone at WP:VPT knows how it works. -- zzuuzz (talk) 22:31, 10 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Curious. WP:SIP doesn't mention 51.x.x.x as a sensitive IP. Bug perhaps? --Majora (talk) 22:33, 10 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Alright, the popup is operated by MediaWiki:Group-sysop.js; it's that page which needs to be fixed, but it's all black magic to me and I know about the tale of the Sorcerer's Apprentice.Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 22:38, 10 July 2016 (UTC)

[end text copied from WP:AN] Nyttend (talk) 22:40, 10 July 2016 (UTC)
 * This appears to be coming from MediaWiki:Group-sysop.js. There are a lot of regexes at the bottom of the page used to match IP addresses, and it looks like this particular one is wrong or out of date. The regex for the UK parliament that was triggered this time is . — <span style="color: #194D00; font-family: Palatino, Times, serif">Mr. Stradivarius  ♪ talk ♪ 23:27, 10 July 2016 (UTC)
 * The code is marked as being maintained by User:East718, so they should know how to fix it. Or if anyone knows what IP ranges the UK Parliament uses, I can have a go at fixing it myself. — <span style="color: #194D00; font-family: Palatino, Times, serif">Mr. Stradivarius  ♪ talk ♪ 00:59, 11 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Try and, and the table at Blocking_IP_addresses --Tagishsimon (talk) 01:06, 11 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Aha, WP:SIP was linked above, which says that it's . That's in the regex already, but I'm not sure where the part starting with 51 comes from. The regex above matches anything in 51.0.0.0 - 51.255.255.255 or 194.60.0.0 - 194.60.95.255 (and there are a few sub-ranges left out of the latter range). — <span style="color: #194D00; font-family: Palatino, Times, serif">Mr. Stradivarius  ♪ talk ♪ 01:18, 11 July 2016 (UTC)


 * More of a headache is that the values on this list appear to have forked, see:
 * 1) Blocking_IP_addresses
 * 2) Template:Sensitive IP addresses
 * 3) MediaWiki:Blockiptext
 * 4) MediaWiki:Group-sysop.js
 * Now it is less of a "how" to fix it, but a "what is the appropriate value" problem. I've contacted ComCom to see if they have a current, master, list. —  xaosflux  Talk 01:12, 11 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Communications_committee/Notifications message left. — xaosflux  Talk 01:14, 11 July 2016 (UTC)
 * I sent a second request on their noticeboard, no answer - they have a mailing list too, I can try that later. — xaosflux  Talk 18:55, 12 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Message left for User talk:Mdennis (WMF) as well - I'm not even sure that ComCom list is current - if there are still "sensitive IP addresses" that the foundation cares about, I've got to imagine they are wider reaching than just the English Wikipedia. — xaosflux  Talk 19:07, 12 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Yes, it would be best to have one master list which we can query for all related templates and JavaScript. Otherwise we might find this scenario occurring quite regularly. — <span style="color: #194D00; font-family: Palatino, Times, serif">Mr. Stradivarius  ♪ talk ♪ 01:21, 11 July 2016 (UTC)


 * I wrote that script but don't think I've maintained the actual list in around eight years, no idea why my name's still on it haha. The code matches the following IP ranges: 194.60.0.0/20 (not exact but it gets the job done without problems) and 51.0.0.0/8. I went through the history of WP:IPB and didn't find anything around June 2008 with the latter range (since it was introduced here), but googling reveals that it was a large block of IP addresses formerly used by the UK government that was partially sold off in May 2015. Making matters weirder is the fact that the UK government never assigned an autonomous system number to it in the first place, which means my adding it to the template in the first place was erroneous, but didn't actually do any harm until around a year ago. — east718  &#124;  talk  &#124; 01:32, 11 July 2016 (UTC)
 * I've removed the outdated range from MediaWiki:Group-sysop.js. — east718  &#124;  talk  &#124; 01:41, 11 July 2016 (UTC)
 * We need some master template that lists all sensitive IP addresses and is transcluded on all relevant pages; I'd probably repurpose Template:Sensitive IP addresses and transclude it on the relevant pages. But I don't think a JavaScript readable list can also be human readable, so the sysop.js page will need its own list still.Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 05:06, 11 July 2016 (UTC)
 * You could do something like list the IP ranges in a Lua data module, then use another Lua module to convert them to human-readable format for the templates, and to JSON for JavaScript. But even better would be something in a MediaWiki message which is centralised for all wikis, not just enwiki. — <span style="color: #194D00; font-family: Palatino, Times, serif">Mr. Stradivarius  ♪ talk ♪ 05:10, 11 July 2016 (UTC)
 * I don't know anything about Lua to write such a thing, unfortunately. I am guessing something like Module:Sensitive IP addresses and Module:Sensitive IP addresses/list for the module that does the conversion and the list, respectively? A MediaWiki message may be another option but it would have to be per language domain, I believe - different language regions have different sensitive IP addresses.Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 05:53, 11 July 2016 (UTC)


 * Update, ComCom is still reviewing this Communications_committee/Notifications to determine if there is a WMF requirement anymore. If not, we may still want a list of flagged addresses here on enwiki that our project considers sensitive; it does not appear there is any resistance to having lists or notification requirements - but I think we should have a semi-stable source somewhere. —  xaosflux  Talk 13:58, 14 July 2016 (UTC)


 * Got an update from ComCom (User_talk:Mdennis_(WMF)) and just pending final information - this is looking like we should manage our own list, in accordance with ComCom guidelines that are being updated on meta. We have already merged the MediaWiki page and the Template back together and work in underway on a Lua Module (by  and ).  One other place to merge this in will be to WP:SIP and to the sysop.js; then notification to utility maintainers that also have their own lists (e.g. huggle). —  xaosflux  Talk 18:01, 20 July 2016 (UTC)


 * OK so final update (Special:PermaLink/730725448) WMF will provide guidance on what constitutes a sensitive IP, but we (enwiki community) will maintain our list, with current "notify comcom if you block this" type instructions. —  xaosflux  Talk 23:17, 20 July 2016 (UTC)

robots.txt problem
The answer to my problem may be "Archive.org made a mistake", and if that's the case, no point in further discussion.

File:Vulpes zerda sitting.jpg, a former featured picture, was deleted in 2007 (a year after its FP status was removed) because it was a corrupted image; when I view deleted edits, I can see the history of the description page, but there's no file history. I figured I'd try the Internet Archive, but give me a surprising message, Page cannot be displayed due to robots.txt.  Same result if I look for "Image:Vulpes..." instead of "File:Vulpes..." Moreover, I note that our robots.txt file appears to make no restrictions on this namespace: "Image" doesn't appear at all, and "File" appears only in blacklistings for WP:FFD. Any idea what's happened, and if anything can be done on our end to resolve this problem? Nyttend (talk) 02:27, 21 July 2016 (UTC)
 * It works as expected for me. Your link says "Wayback Machine doesn't have that page archived", with no mention of robots.txt. "Image:" instead  gives me  which displays the image from Commons. commons:File:Vulpes zerda sitting.jpg says it was deleted from Commons in February 2007. I don't think it was ever uploaded to the English Wikipedia. We create file pages for Commons files if they are featured here, so they can be placed in Category:Featured pictures. I'm not a Commons admin but I assume the deleted file history will show it there. PrimeHunter (talk) 02:56, 21 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Ug, that should have been an obvious place to check, especially since I'm a Commons admin. Yes, the deleted content is visible to anyone with the rights to access https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:Undelete/File:Vulpes_zerda_sitting.jpg.  Thanks!  Nyttend (talk) 03:22, 21 July 2016 (UTC)

Cannot access talkpage sections via TOC links (or #section-name links) if inside COT/COB tags.
I "compress" old sections of my talk page using cot/cob tags. Before today I put the ==section header== inside the tags but now I have learned that even though the section is recognized by the page TOC any attempt to click on the TOC link -- or link to the section as a wikilink or URL with #section-name -- fails, leaving the page arrival at the top of the page instead of at the desired section. Until this is fixed I have moved my headers outside the tags but this is kind of ugly and significantly increases the amount of vertical space consumed on the talk page. Is there any way that this can be fixed so that the compressed sections are correctly jumped to if the section headers are inside the tags? Koala Tea Of Mercy ( KTOM's Articulations &amp; Invigilations ) 17:02, 21 July 2016 (UTC)
 * This is a known feature of section headings inside collapsed text. You could use anchor to make your own anchors with the same titles but before the collapsing like in [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Koala_Tea_Of_Mercy&diff=730903719&oldid=730839567]. PrimeHunter (talk) 17:24, 21 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Thanks ! Much appreciated! Koala Tea Of Mercy ( KTOM's Articulations &amp; Invigilations ) 03:44, 22 July 2016 (UTC)

VisualEditor adding nowiki again
In this edit, VisualEditor incorrectly added tags again. nyuszika7h (talk) 21:36, 21 July 2016 (UTC)
 * It did that because of the dangling brackets in the original text. —Th e DJ (talk • contribs) 09:18, 22 July 2016 (UTC)

Long ago page move that went awry
I was remembering a talk page thread on the that I took part in 8+ years ago. When I went to look for it I was surprised that there was no trace of it. I was also surprised that there had been no edits to the talk page before Dec 2015. Next was to look at the edit history for the article itself. As you can see it shows two edits in 2005 and one in 06. Then there nothing until April 2015. You will note that there was a bot fixing a double redirect here and then there was a copy paste over the redirect here. I know there was editing in the intervening nine years. I have done some hunting to try and find the original edit history with no luck. If it can be found I'm sure a merge will be needed so I am hoping that one or more of you can figure out what has happened.. If this is the wrong place to post this please feel free to move it to a better board. MarnetteD&#124;Talk 04:35, 22 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Forgot to leave this for easier access to the talk page info. I also now realize it could be a cut and paste problem rather than a page move one. I hope these help. MarnetteD&#124;Talk 04:45, 22 July 2016 (UTC)
 * I have found the original edit history and the talk page here . Hopefully this will help in getting the merge taken care of. The editor who made the cut and paste  hasn't edited since April. It might be worth taking a look at their editing history to see if the made any other cut and paste moves. MarnetteD&#124;Talk 05:29, 22 July 2016 (UTC)
 * I've gone and history-merged both the article and talk pages, and combined the two talk pages together. The editor has not made any other cut-and-paste moves with that account, but I sent them a message about the one on Monsieur Hulot's Holiday (I'll add a link to this discussion). Graham 87 07:59, 22 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Thanks for cleaning this up . Much appreciated. MarnetteD&#124;Talk 14:08, 22 July 2016 (UTC)

WP:DRN/request - can't post request
I've filled out the request form at Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/request, but when I press the "save" button the 'working' indicator just keeps spinning. The "Form for filing disputes at the dispute resolution noticeboard" entry in my Preferences:Gadgets form is checked, and I'm able to see and fill the form. The problem comes when I save it. I'm using Firefox on Ubuntu. is helping me get the request posted. Felsic2 (talk) 19:52, 21 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Did check the browser console? Ruslik_ Zero 20:11, 21 July 2016 (UTC)
 * I have no idea how to do that. Robert McClenon reports that he is having the same trouble, presumably using a different browser/OS. See Wikipedia talk:Dispute resolution noticeboard. Felsic2 (talk) 20:13, 21 July 2016 (UTC)
 * A script is being used for the purpose, and is new. I am looking to see who supports the script, because it apparently isn't working as intended.  Robert McClenon (talk) 21:03, 21 July 2016 (UTC)
 * User:TransporterMan - Do you know who is the maintainer for the script? The tests that I have conducted indicate that it is just looping, as User:Felsic2 reports.  Robert McClenon (talk) 21:42, 21 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Mea culpa. I made an edit request to the script four days ago that apparently had a bug in it; for whatever reason, the testing I did didn't detect the error. An edit request to fix it has been filed. Enterprisey (talk!) (formerly APerson) 01:48, 22 July 2016 (UTC)
 * The test version ; all we need now is an admin. Enterprisey (talk!) (formerly APerson) 01:57, 22 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Fix has been published; everything should be working now. Enterprisey (talk!) (formerly APerson) 02:30, 22 July 2016 (UTC)

I just posted a test case and it posted correctly. Thanks for the fix. — TransporterMan  ( TALK ) 06:59, 22 July 2016 (UTC) (Current DRN Coordinator)
 * Thanks for the fix! Felsic2 (talk) 15:00, 22 July 2016 (UTC)

New maintenance category: "Pages using invalid self-closed HTML tags"
Attention gnomes!

I just created after seeing it in a redlink at the bottom of a page. It had 227 items when I created it, and 312 now, which usually means that something changed somewhere (in the Wikimedia code base, I believe) that is tagging articles with this new maintenance category as they are edited or processed by the job queue.

See this discussion from two months ago, which I think is related to this new category.

If I've done something wrong, feel free to fix, revert, trout, whatever. – Jonesey95 (talk) 19:51, 14 July 2016 (UTC)


 * Looks good. Maybe MediaWiki-added tracking categories should be hidden by default when they haven't been created yet. Some foreign languages now have ugly red category names displayed on articles (in English since the name hasn't been translated yet). Current example: pt:Paulo Magalhaes. The category name is determined by MediaWiki:Deprecated-self-close-category. sounds OK.
 * Module:TreeChart has 3020 transclusions and is responsible for many of the pages in the category. It's called by chart. Special:ExpandTemplates shows  produces code with  . Can a Lua coder look at it? PrimeHunter (talk) 20:48, 14 July 2016 (UTC)
 * It looks like Module:TreeChart/data may produce the offending code. A line near the end says . – Jonesey95 (talk) 22:44, 14 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Yes. Where is the function  defined? -- Red rose64 (talk) 22:57, 14 July 2016 (UTC)
 * "renderedcells" appears to be a function defined two lines above the code I quoted. It calls mw.html.create. See the documentation. Maybe or  will know how to fix this one. – Jonesey95 (talk) 23:39, 14 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Done. Jackmcbarn (talk) 18:56, 15 July 2016 (UTC)
 * ^He fixed it. I used self-closing tags because why not. It reduced the size post-expansion. Had no clue this was deprecated in HTML5. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ mol  uɐɯ  22:14, 15 July 2016 (UTC)
 * There's another module/template on Andy Warhol producing it. --Izno (talk) 21:44, 14 July 2016 (UTC)
 * In Andy Warhol, the last ref in the Music sub-section is a containing HUMO magazine and that parameter is italicised in the cite templates - there's a function in Module:Citation/CS1/Utilities called   that inserted a  to prevent four consecutive apostrophes from occurring, this would be interpreted as three then one - boldface and literal apostrophe.  should fix it. Also hundreds of others. -- Red rose64 (talk) 22:08, 14 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Categories can't be hidden by default when their cat pages haven't been created yet, because the mechanism by which they're hidden is by placing the behaviour switch  on the cat page. So the cat page must exist in order for the cat to be hidden. -- Red rose64 (talk) 22:15, 14 July 2016 (UTC)
 * I know that's how it works now. I was thinking of a change in the MediaWiki software, not something we can do here. PrimeHunter (talk) 22:21, 14 July 2016 (UTC)

Here's an error in a mass message that someone could fix with AWB. Change " " to " ". – Jonesey95 (talk) 23:58, 14 July 2016 (UTC)

Are the pages containing  added to this tracking category? And if yes, should they be then changed to ? AFAIK HTML supports both of those tags? --Stryn (talk) 14:25, 15 July 2016 (UTC) etc. accepted no matter that they contain /> (these are self-closing and accepted in HTML5). Is there anything additional that should be changed/made [such as the change you mentioned] in order for this categorization to function properly on other Wikis, or all of this is solved elswehere (outside of local Wikipedias such as sr.wiki) because category is a Mediawiki category? --Obsuser (talk) 17:24, 15 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Html 5 allows to be self-closing, so a slash there is fine. --Izno (talk) 14:34, 15 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Why are pages using  (at least on sr.wiki) still added to the tracking category Pages using invalid self-closed HTML tags? Example: sr:Проширени периодни систем. Note: Maybe it is other reason why is this page in particular added to the tracking cat; could you explain why is this happening?
 * Also, if there are some modules etc. that should be implemented on other wikis such sr.wiki so this category functions as it should, please tell. --Obsuser (talk) 14:41, 15 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Wait a day or two to see if this change affects your category. Then start opening pages, see if /> shows up in the source; if it's an html tag which can't use that, replace/remove it. If it doesn't show up, it's probably in a module or template somewhere, and finding that is on you. --Izno (talk) 15:21, 15 July 2016 (UTC)
 * I've seen some module on en.wiki and discussions on how to get
 * and some others like  are valid and do not cause the category. All pages in the category for a specific wiki are caused by invalid self-closing tags on a page somewhere at that wiki, but it may often be another page which is transcluded by a page in the category. sr:Проширени периодни систем transcludes sr:Шаблон:Periodic table (32 columns, micro)/119+ which has many invalid  . They can be replaced by  . The categorization is made by MediaWiki and works as intended at sr. The only thing for the local editors to do (which can be a lot of work) is find and fix the invalid self-closing tags. the change you linked is an example of doing that. Special:Expandtemplates at the local wiki can be of help in finding transcluded cases. Actually, there is one more thing you can do: A local admin can rename the tracking category in the local MediaWiki:Deprecated-self-close-category. If you don't create that message at sr then it may suddenly get a Serbian name when somebody adds a Serbian translation to the MediaWiki software itself. PrimeHunter (talk) 18:01, 15 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Here's a fun one: File:Smash_the_House_logo.jpg. --Izno (talk) 16:16, 15 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Caused by OTRS received, now fixed. Reach Out to the Truth 16:36, 15 July 2016 (UTC)

If someone wants to tell me why my talk page is in this category that would be great. Even better if they can fix the problem. Cheers, Jenks24 (talk) 18:48, 15 July 2016 (UTC)
 * to User:MiszaBot/config should have fixed it, similarly for other pages using lowercase sigmabot III archiving. -- Red rose64 (talk) 08:14, 16 July 2016 (UTC)

Common non-void elements (div, span)
The category seems to have a lot of pages caused by
 * Do we have a good standard for how we want these remediated? — xaosflux  Talk 01:22, 16 July 2016 (UTC)
 * WP:ANCHOR says: code, or (see Anchor syntax).
 * I don't know whether there is a reason to use a div instead of a span to make an anchor. PrimeHunter (talk) 01:30, 16 July 2016 (UTC)
 * OK the template produces:   (if expanded). —  xaosflux  Talk 01:38, 16 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Many of them are football tournaments; the fix for those is to move the id inside the template, and drop the  or  completely. That is to say, make an edit . -- Red rose64 (talk) 08:18, 16 July 2016 (UTC)
 * OK the template produces:   (if expanded). —  xaosflux  Talk 01:38, 16 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Many of them are football tournaments; the fix for those is to move the id inside the template, and drop the  or  completely. That is to say, make an edit . -- Red rose64 (talk) 08:18, 16 July 2016 (UTC)

What should be done with <cite ></cite> tags? I've never used them before, so I don't know what they do. Example: List of airports by IATA code: B. – Jonesey95 (talk) 18:40, 18 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Those in that case are being used as anchor, so I would recommend replacement with that template. Other users of cite may be context dependent. --Izno (talk) 18:43, 18 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Easier to . -- Red rose64 (talk) 21:42, 18 July 2016 (UTC)

span tags suitable for bot action
There are a few thousand pages with self-closed span tags that should be suitable for closing by a bot, or a robotic human with AWB. Here's an insource search that reveals a subset of them (in the Wikipedia namespace). Here's the same search in article space. – Jonesey95 (talk) 05:48, 17 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Some may need human review, does anyone have the AWB style regex for this find/replace handy:
 * to-->
 * — xaosflux  Talk 16:35, 17 July 2016 (UTC)
 * for ? Does span ever take any other arguments? Or none? —  crh 23   &thinsp;(Talk) 16:52, 17 July 2016 (UTC)
 * that regex is matching other things, we can start with just "id" but the match needs to be only when:
 * Starts with  (e.g. must end with "/>"). —  xaosflux  Talk 17:27, 17 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Sorry, pretty inexperienced with regex. Can you give me an example of the false positives? I have gone through a small sample and not found any (or I misunderstand the intended behaviour). — crh 23   &thinsp;(Talk) 17:42, 17 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Re-checking, may have been a syntax error on my side. — xaosflux  Talk 17:53, 17 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Thank you, that seems to be good, I'm checking for div's too, may be a slow run see example that worked: (example. — xaosflux  Talk 17:57, 17 July 2016 (UTC)
 * I might churn through a few of these later. May have to use a database dump, as wiki search including  in AWB is quite broken (T133799). —  crh 23   &thinsp;(Talk) 18:13, 17 July 2016 (UTC)
 * I'm doing a few small runs against the maint category. — xaosflux  Talk 18:16, 17 July 2016 (UTC)
 * A number of these are better fixed by moving the  attribute to another element (which might mean altering   to <b ></b> at the same time), allowing the span to be eliminated,  - two different situations in the same article. -- Red rose64 (talk) 08:37, 18 July 2016 (UTC)
 * To your q. "does span ever take any other arguments?" - yes, like any other HTML element it allows [//www.w3.org/TR/html5/dom.html#global-attributes several other attributes] - those that I've come across in Wikipedia include      and  . -- Red rose64 (talk) 08:43, 18 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Style is somewhat popular of the ones I've run across so far. — xaosflux  Talk 11:52, 18 July 2016 (UTC)
 * I ran a large batch, seeding from the category - now just have to wait for it to catch up (new pages are still being populated in that that category as well (new as in old pages that are new to that cat). — xaosflux  Talk 11:52, 18 July 2016 (UTC)
 * No need to wait. . Feel free to copy it to a page of your own. And . These lists were generated from the insource searches above. They match the regex, which is not comprehensive but should avoid false positives. – Jonesey95 (talk) 14:29, 18 July 2016 (UTC)
 * . – Jonesey95 (talk) 18:58, 18 July 2016 (UTC)
 * I have filed a bot request - though my initial reviews shows that most of these still need to be carefully supervised - there are a lot of oddities and there may be some false positives in the checking routine (when nesting modules or where comment code is in use). — xaosflux  Talk 16:29, 22 July 2016 (UTC)

user:192.168.1.1
The page at, a redirect to Private network, has been nominated at RfD. The discussion would benefit from input from those knowledgeable about the subject, and whether the address could ever (accidentally or otherwise) have edits to Wikipedia attributed to it. Please comment at Redirects for discussion/Log/2016 July 22 rather than here to keep discussion in one place. Thryduulf (talk) 19:41, 22 July 2016 (UTC)

Page scrolling
As soon as I type one stroke in an article, the edit window immediately scrolls up to the top of the page, entirely by itself, so I can't see what I'm typing. This just started today. It's making editing long articles a hassle. White Arabian Filly Neigh 22:08, 21 July 2016 (UTC)
 * This must be Thursday. Strange new things always seem to happen on Thursdays. -- Red rose64 (talk) 22:49, 21 July 2016 (UTC)
 * I never could get the hang of Thursdays. clpo13(talk) 23:21, 21 July 2016 (UTC)
 * It's working normally for me in both the normal editor and in VisualEditor in Chrome. Could you let us know your browser, and what editor you're using? It might be a browser-specific or editor-specific bug (or both). — <span style="color: #194D00; font-family: Palatino, Times, serif">Mr. Stradivarius  ♪ talk ♪ 23:28, 21 July 2016 (UTC)
 * I use the default mobile view on a Samsung Galaxy S4 smartphone. It is still scrolling today, though not as bad as yesterday; it's not going to the top of the page like yesterday. White Arabian Filly  Neigh 20:29, 22 July 2016 (UTC)

Edit tab change, MonoBook
In MonoBook, I have an "edit this page" tab, I think that it's been like that for 7+ years. If I click it, all that used to happen was that it went boldface. Now, it changes to "edit source" on articles (but not here at VPT). I think that this is recent alteration; why does it now change to "edit source" on clicking, only to return to "edit this page" on save? -- Red rose64 (talk) 22:14, 22 July 2016 (UTC)
 * I assume, this is at least somehow related? -- Edgars2007  (talk/contribs) 22:31, 22 July 2016 (UTC)
 * It depends on your Special:Preferences. The software sometimes changes the VisualEditor options and may not be entirely logical. When you are on an edit page in a namespace where VisualEditor works, you can swap between source editor and VisualEditor and the tab can indicate which one you are currently using. It's also possible to get two edit tabs. If you always want to see "edit this page" in MonoBook ("Edit" in Vector) then remove the checkmark from "Temporarily disable the visual editor" if you have one and save preferences. Then go back to Special:Preferences and select "Always give me the source editor" at the "Editing mode" box you should see. PrimeHunter (talk) 00:20, 23 July 2016 (UTC)

Message jam
Hi, I seem to have a problem with the ping messages, i'm getting 99+ constantly showing and am unable to mark all as read. Ser Amantio did it when he invited people recently to the WikiProject Africa/Contests.♦ Dr. Blofeld  16:43, 22 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Did you try to remove them by specifically accessing Special:Notifications? Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 17:23, 22 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Yes, it still says 99+.♦ Dr. Blofeld  19:05, 22 July 2016 (UTC)
 * See if this will work for you. —&thinsp;JJMC89&thinsp; (T·C) 20:04, 22 July 2016 (UTC)
 * The easiest current way to clear notifications in bulk, is slightly technical, but if you're comfortable opening your browser-console (how-to) then follow just step #2 in the first post of my explanation here.
 * The easiest non-technical (manual) method, is to go to Special:BlankPage, open the flyout and click "Mark all as read" (which will mark the 25 in the flyout as "read"), then reload the page, and repeat.
 * Next week (Thursday) there will be a new menu item to clear all notifications on a wiki at once, on the Special:Notifications page, but it isn't live yet. HTH. Quiddity (WMF) (talk) 01:26, 23 July 2016 (UTC)

Edit count reduced
At the end of a session I check my edit count, just to see how many edits I've knocked off and to get an idea of the ground I've covered. The last time I checked a couple of days ago my edit count was over 53,400. After checking just a few minutes ago it's down to 53,044. Some how, about 400 edits just sort of 'disappeared'. No big deal I suppose, because my actual edits are still with us. Any ideas? -- Gwillhickers (talk) 09:28, 14 July 2016 (UTC)
 * It's probably a T138967 issue of some sort. If someone can determine exactly what's wrong on the database level, they should report it there. Anomie⚔ 11:38, 14 July 2016 (UTC)
 * User talk:Cyberpower678 may be related. -- Red rose64 (talk) 15:02, 14 July 2016 (UTC)
 * -- Okay, don't quite know what happened, but my edit count is back up where it belongs. (Ghost in the machine?)  Thanks to any and all who may have solved this problem. -- Gwillhickers (talk) 19:01, 14 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Well, the problem is back. I informed Cyberpower678 and was told it was an issue with Labs' DB cluster, period -- whoever they may be. Don't even know how to contact them. -- Gwillhickers (talk) 07:12, 15 July 2016 (UTC)

Edit counter still acting funny
The edit counter is at it again. Yesterday I reported a problem (posted above) -- the edit-counts were below par, but this morning when I checked things were back to normal. Just checked it again and my edit-count is even lower than before. Could someone report this to the people who manage this thing? Thanx. -- Gwillhickers (talk) 00:33, 15 July 2016 (UTC)
 * ✅   Just left User talk:cyberpower678 a message about the problem. Hopefully this will help. Is anyone else experiencing this problem?-- Gwillhickers (talk) 01:03, 15 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Cyberpower678 was unable to help and deferred me to something called "Labs' DB cluster", which I've never heard of and don't know how to contact. Anyone? -- Gwillhickers (talk) 07:16, 15 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Cyberpower678 should look at the specific database queries that are being executed here and report it at T138967, as I mentioned earlier. Just "it's the database's fault" doesn't help the problem get fixed. Anomie⚔ 12:39, 23 July 2016 (UTC)

See https://wikitech.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Tool_Labs#Contact. I'll ping Yuvi on your behalf now though, I hope he'll be able to provide some kind of information here. --Elitre (WMF) (talk) 09:39, 18 July 2016 (UTC)

FFD close script request
This is something that has asked for, I wonder if it would be possible to write a script to close FFD discussions (mainly, adding and removing templates). The venue is highly backlogged and all the manual steps to take for discussions where the outcome is not a simple deletion is cumbersome.

Such a script could have three input options for each file (for single file discussions; multi-file ones are more complex):
 * Delete without comment: Simply deletes the file.
 * Delete with comment: Adds the  ~ template at the top (with "reason" containing the comment) and {{subst:ffd bottom}} at the bottom, while removing any Closing templates. Then deletes the file.
 * Other action with comment: Adds the  ~ template at the top (with "reason" containing the comment) and {{subst:ffd bottom}} at the bottom, while removing any Closing templates. It then adds   (with "result" containing the comment) to the file talk page and removes the FFD template from the file talk page. Then it would open the file page in an additional window for implementing the decision.'''
 * Relist.

Thanks! Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 14:32, 21 July 2016 (UTC)
 * I've started making a script over at User:Evad37/FFDcloser.js. I haven't yet looked at relisting, but have done (very) basic tests on the other functions, and at this stage it looks like the script will be able to do most or all of the above. I'll provide an update when it's ready for testing. - Evad37 &#91;talk] 18:49, 22 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Thanks! I see Czar is already working with it.Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 21:09, 22 July 2016 (UTC)

The script is now ready for more testing – in particular, the actual deletion of a file needs an admin to test it. I ended up coding five options: All of the above will refresh the page after editing; Keep and Other will also open the file page in a new tab/window afterwards; Relist will also open the new listing in a new tab/window afterwards. - Evad37 &#91;talk] 14:12, 23 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Quick Delete [qDel] – Closes the discussion as "Delete" and deletes the file.
 * Delete With Comments [Delete] – Prompts for closing comment, closes the discussion with that comment, and deletes the file.
 * Quick Keep [qKeep] – Closes the discussion as "Keep", removes template from file page, and adds  to file talk page.
 * Other Close/Keep With Comments [Other close] – Prompts for closing comment, closes the discussion with that comment, removes template from file page, and adds  to file talk page.
 * Relist Discussion [Relist] – Closes the discussion as "Relist" (and collapses the discussion), relists discussion on the current day's subpage, and updates the log parameter in the template on the file page
 * Great! Let's discuss on talk page? Farm-Fresh eye.png User talk:Evad37/FFDcloser.js czar  19:39, 23 July 2016 (UTC)

Search expressions
I want to search for the literal string  (like the one that I removed ) in page source. I tried insource:, insource:<\/span\/> , insource:<//span//> , insource:" " , insource:"<\/span\/>" and several other combinations, but they all come back as if I were searching insource:span which is useless to me. What's the regexp that will allow literal searches? -- Red rose64 (talk) 23:14, 23 July 2016 (UTC)
 * \<\/span\/\> finds it for me in Xcode. --Tagishsimon (talk) 23:23, 23 July 2016 (UTC)
 * and  both search plain text (and ignore punctuation); regex search is  .  seems to work. <span title="User:SiBr₄">SiBr4  (<span title="User talk:SiBr₄">talk ) 23:24, 23 July 2016 (UTC)
 * that worked; now, where are these documented? -- Red rose64 (talk) 23:45, 23 July 2016 (UTC)
 * mw:Help:CirrusSearch. <span title="User:SiBr₄">SiBr4 (<span title="User talk:SiBr₄">talk ) 23:50, 23 July 2016 (UTC)

Cut back on the length of the interwiki links
I recently noticed that on Hebrew Wikipedia, on pages with lots of interwiki links, the page shows only the first 9 - and a button which will show me the rest. How could I do that here? עוד מישהו Od Mishehu 03:22, 24 July 2016 (UTC)


 * Preferences>Beta Features>Shorter language links. Someguy1221 (talk) 03:27, 24 July 2016 (UTC)


 * Thanks. עוד מישהו Od Mishehu 03:40, 24 July 2016 (UTC)

Hatnotes, lists and outdenting when image is to the left
Do you know why are hatnotes such as here not outdented i.e. right on the text left margin? I made all modules, .css and .js are updated – so nobody could find error till now. Also, why are bulleted and numbered list, not only on sr.wiki but on en.wiki too, not outdented more from the text left margin when image is to the left (bulleted lists' content is displayed also right on the text left margin)?--Obsuser (talk) 07:18, 18 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Because in CSS, a margin is reduced, before a 'box' is shifted. The same happens to lists. In en.wp we have Template:flowlist and it's accompanying class in MediaWiki:Common.css to deal with lists that are bothered by this issue. For hatnotes, you can add the style rule "overflow:hidden", which as a side effect prevents this compromise of the margin. —Th e DJ (talk • contribs) 08:18, 18 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Thank you, I've just made sr:Template:flowlist. Couldn't this be fixed for all lists directly in MediaWiki:Common.css + that white space below images does not appear i.e. wrapping is enabled / list becomes non-block element?
 * Regarding hatnotes: I didn't understand you about "overflow:hidden". Thing is that I've just seen that hatnotes are not outdented when right to the left-positioned image on en.wiki either (as same as they are not on sr.wiki). Do you know how to fix this for both projects and all instances of hatnote templates use at once i.e. where to add "overflow:hidden" and why is it not already implemented on en.wiki? --Obsuser (talk) 20:30, 18 July 2016 (UTC)
 * ... Could someone check this so it does not get archived...--Obsuser (talk) 07:04, 24 July 2016 (UTC)

Unexpected consequences of edit. Bug?
This edit https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Evolutionary_theory_of_sex_(ETS)&diff=prev&oldid=731337577 had the unexpected effect of apparently deleting the rest of the article, though the size is reported to have increased. I do not know what happened, or if it is a permanent effect. A subsequent bot edit added some dates and the missing material is still missing. I expect going back and saving an old version will bring it back, but I left it so someone with a better technical understanding can look at the evidence. &bull; &bull; &bull; Peter (Southwood) (talk): 18:32, 24 July 2016 (UTC)
 * You didn't delete the rest of the wikisource (hence the size of the page went up); you simply didn't close a comment, making the rest of the content appear to be inside of it. עוד מישהו Od Mishehu 18:40, 24 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Ah! the mighty typo. Thanks, it had me baffled. &bull; &bull; &bull; Peter (Southwood) (talk): 18:50, 24 July 2016 (UTC)

Twinkle adding "Orphaned non-free revisions" twice
I ran into a strange bug here. Twinkle added an Orphaned non-free revisions template with yesterday's date, and another with today's date. nyuszika7h (talk) 14:56, 24 July 2016 (UTC)
 * This looks like User talk:Stefan2 -- Red rose64 (talk) 19:32, 24 July 2016 (UTC)

Exact time of registration
I want to thank you again for making that link to a user's commons uploads. It is very handy.

I often have the need to know the exact time of registration. Rather than going to Special:CentralAuth for each user, would this be possible with a script or something:

At a userpage under the username it says "Registered 07/25/2016; 10 edits". It would be great if new users, for the first, say, week or month, could have the time of registration as well, like "Registered 07/25/2016 16:55 (41 minutes ago); 10 edits". Is this possible? Anna Frodesiak (talk) 06:52, 24 July 2016 (UTC)
 * This script does pretty much all of that if I understand you correctly, and it also shows user rights. Just install it and go to any user/user talk/contributions page and click the icons next to the page title.  Omni Flames ( talk ) 06:59, 24 July 2016 (UTC)
 * In case you haven't seen it, at the bottom of a user's contributions is a "User rights" link, and clicking that shows the user's rights and has text "Created on...date/time". Johnuniq (talk) 07:02, 24 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Thanks, Johnuniq. I would just love to have it displayed at their userpage without having to click anything. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 08:42, 24 July 2016 (UTC)

Ping :) Anna is talking about modifying User:MastCell/user-rights.js - NQ  (talk)  08:28, 24 July 2016 (UTC)


 * Struck through the first sentence. This post was actually intended for our beloved Mr. Stradivarius, but I decided to post it here instead and forgot to remove the first sentence. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 08:36, 24 July 2016 (UTC)


 * These scripts really confuse me. If someone would be so kind as to put it wherever it is supposed to go, that would be great. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 08:42, 24 July 2016 (UTC)


 * The two linked to above are User:MastCell/user-rights.js and User:Anomie/useridentifier.js. I have no clue what they do or where they go. It's all just symbols and colours to me. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 08:43, 24 July 2016 (UTC)
 * For User:Anomie/useridentifier.js, installation instructions are at the top. User:MastCell/user-rights.js doesn't have any, but it does show "Heavily borrowed and lightly adapted from User:Splarka/sysopdectector.js"; and User:Splarka/sysopdectector.js also lacks installation instructions. Notifying and, although the latter has edited only once in the last two years. -- Red rose64 (talk) 09:44, 24 July 2016 (UTC)


 * User:Anna Frodesiak/common.js says:

importScript('User:MastCell/user-rights.js'); // Linkback: User:MastCell/user-rights.js
 * That means your account runs User:MastCell/user-rights.js. Requests can be posted to User talk:MastCell. If you want to run User:Anomie/useridentifier.js then place this in :

importScript('User:Anomie/useridentifier.js'); // Linkback: User:Anomie/useridentifier.js
 * Requests can be posted to User talk:Anomie. You can also use the talk pages of the scripts but posts there may not be noticed. PrimeHunter (talk) 09:49, 24 July 2016 (UTC)

I'm lost here. I don't even know what they do or don't do or how to install these. Could some kind editor please just make "Registered 07/25/2016; 10 edits" become "Registered 07/25/2016 16:55 (41 minutes ago); 10 edits"? I'd be so grateful. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 12:01, 24 July 2016 (UTC)
 * you say "at a userpage", do you mean a specific user's page - or any userpage? As far where you are looking, especially for older users the Special:CentralAuth timestamp not be the oringal registration time, the Special:Log/newusers (User creation log) for the user is usually more accurate. —  xaosflux  Talk 13:24, 24 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Anna is using User:MastCell/user-rights.js whichs adds information when you view a user page. The script is made by MastCell so if you want it to display more information like account age in minutes then you can ask for it at User talk:MastCell. The script has not been edited since 2012 and I don't know whether MastCell has interest in changing it. PrimeHunter (talk) 13:35, 24 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Hi PrimeHunter. I posted and asked at here. Couldn't I just take that script and ask someone to modify it a bit and stick it in my .js thing-a-me-doodle? Anna Frodesiak (talk) 17:35, 24 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Hi Xaosflux. Yes, I mean for all new users when I am at their userpage. I normally have to open a new tab for each at Special:CentralAuth. When I want to look into a bunch of users for an SPI or maybe tagteam vandalism, it would be useful without having to click more tabs. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 17:35, 24 July 2016 (UTC)

becomes: To get the date from now you can use Date.now and subtract the regDateObj from that which gets you milliseconds, then divide by 1000*60 to get minutes. II | (t - c) 21:27, 24 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Looks like you just need to modify a line a bit:


 * You'd also have to change  to  . Combine this code snippet with User:PleaseStand/userinfo.js and it . - NQ  (talk)  03:45, 25 July 2016 (UTC)


 * Thank you, ImperfectlyInformed! Now, of course, I have no clue what all that means, but if it can now be done, that is great. So, would you stick that in the .js doo-dad or wherever, please? I'd be eternally grateful. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 21:38, 24 July 2016 (UTC)

You are all so nice, and I am sorry to cause such a fuss over all of this. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 21:38, 24 July 2016 (UTC)


 * Click here and replace the contents of that page with this. - NQ (talk)  03:45, 25 July 2016 (UTC)


 * Hi NQ. When I did that, it said "An administrator, 7 years 8 months old, with 99,918 edits. Last edited 15 hours ago. From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia." Again, I am sorry to cause such a fuss over this. It is not a hugely important thing and I can live with opening the extra tabs. I just thought it would be a teeny tweak to a script or something. Thank you all for trying and I am terribly sorry to have wasted so much community resources over this. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 04:01, 25 July 2016 (UTC)


 * Yes it shows you how old the account is. (eg. "28 minutes old", "7 years, 8 months old" etc.) If you click on that link, it'll take you to Special:ListUsers which will display the exact registration date and time. Anyway, if you prefer to have the registration info displayed as well, try this : Copy the contents of this page and paste them here. Then click here and replace the contents with this. Let me know how it goes. - NQ (talk)  04:12, 25 July 2016 (UTC)
 * It should show up like this for your account or like this for a new user - NQ (talk)  04:20, 25 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Really? I must be going blind. Let me try it again. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 04:24, 25 July 2016 (UTC)
 * NQ, it works! Fantastic! I must be going bonkers because I didn't even read the above "...Yes it shows you how old the account..." paragraph when I typed "Really". And thank you for the 'replace-this-with-this' presentation. That makes it so easy. I am totally terrified by adding 'code'. I keep thinking it will melt Wikipedia or go all haywire or something. Thank you again! Oh, and if it is super easy, could that line get trimmed or shrunk or both? No real need for "A registered user" or "6 years 6 months old", and "Last edited" could just be "last" and I know it is "From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia." If that is not a total sinch, don't worry about it. Thank you again! :) Anna Frodesiak (talk) 04:34, 25 July 2016 (UTC)

✅! Anna Frodesiak (talk) 06:55, 25 July 2016 (UTC)

By the way, it's all nice and concise and tiny now, thanks to NQ. Feel free to give it a go. It is here: User:Anna Frodesiak/user-info.js. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 07:43, 25 July 2016 (UTC)

Tech News: 2016-30
<section begin="technews-2016-W30"/> Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Recent changes
 * Interactive maps have been enabled for Meta wiki and the Catalan, Hebrew, and Macedonian Wikipedias. Learn how to add interactive maps to wiki pages.
 * Octicons-tools.svg Last week's rollback is now documented.

Problems
 * Sometimes, the visual editor required saving twice. That problem is now fixed.

Changes this week
 * Octicons-sync.svg The new version of MediaWiki will be on test wikis and MediaWiki.org from 26 July. It will be on non-Wikipedia wikis and some Wikipedias from 27 July. It will be on all wikis from 28 July (calendar).
 * It is now possible to mark all Notifications as read on Special:Notifications, by clicking on the cog icon.
 * Wikipedia search will now detect the language of your search if 2 or fewer results are found. It will then show results from the matching language Wikipedia, if any relevant article exists. It will start to roll out in 5 languages.

Meetings
 * Octicons-sync.svg You can join the next meeting with the VisualEditor team. During the meeting, you can tell developers which bugs you think are the most important. The meeting will be on 26 July at 19:00 (UTC). See how to join.
 * Octicons-tools.svg You can join the next meeting with the Architecture committee. The topic this week is "an extension that implements an authenticated key-value store". The meeting will be on 27 July at 21:00 (UTC). See how to join.

Future changes
 * The current icon for Notifications "" (in English "Notices") will be changed from a bubble-speech icon to a tray icon for consistency.
 * Special:Notifications page code will be changed to be more Mobile friendly.

Tech news prepared by tech ambassadors and posted by bot • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe. <section end="technews-2016-W30"/> 19:54, 25 July 2016 (UTC)

Syntax highlighting
Is there any way to highlight just a word or regular expression in edit box via User:USERNAME/common.js?--ԱշոտՏՆՂ (talk) 12:02, 17 July 2016 (UTC)
 * You can look at this. Ruslik_ Zero 13:34, 17 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Ruslik, thanks!--ԱշոտՏՆՂ (talk) 22:19, 18 July 2016 (UTC)
 * I'm fond of User:Ais523/highlightmyname2.js, but it only works in "Read mode", so I don't think it will do what you want. OTOH, since I started using it, I feel more confident that I'm not overlooking my username (and you can set it to any single string that you want).  WhatamIdoing (talk) 07:27, 23 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Thank you, dear WhatamIdoing--ԱշոտՏՆՂ (talk) 12:19, 26 July 2016 (UTC)

The editing environment appears to have changed, detrimentally
In the past, when beginning to edit a page, the advanced edit options atop the edit window and the special characters/wiki markup underneath were immediately available. As of recently, to my chagrin, I have realized that these options are no longer available until after the page is previewed. Is this a change that was intended? I think it is counterproductive and wish it could be reversed. It literally wastes data having to reload the page in preview just to access these tools. Many users, including me, purchase our internet access by the gig and I do not see a good reason for loading a page superfluously. If there is a good reason, please tell me of it, so I may know. Thank you.--John Cline (talk) 11:52, 26 July 2016 (UTC)
 * I checked and I seem to be able to view it just fine without hitting the show preview button. It does take a few seconds to appear though, so maybe try waiting for a moment. --Jakob (talk)  aka Jakec  11:57, 26 July 2016 (UTC)
 * It is certainly slower than it used to be, and has been for some weeks - it's why I made seven weeks ago. I can live without the buttons at the top, but the box of links (the "charinsert" gadget, defined at MediaWiki:Gadget-charinsert-core.js with MediaWiki:Gadget-charinsert-core.css) is indispensable. This does take time loading, and sometimes never loads at all. -- Red rose64 (talk) 12:11, 26 July 2016 (UTC)
 * I apologize. My connection is running slow, and I apparently did not wait for the page to fully load in edit mode. It does seem to take longer to load than I recollect of the past, but I can adapt. Best.--John Cline (talk) 12:21, 26 July 2016 (UTC)

Page Information Stats
While I really like and appreciate the new design and layout of the Page information stats, I was hoping someone could explain why there is a column for % of minor edits made by a user, but not a % of major edits, and why there is Text Share column: Username | Edits | Minor | Minor (%) | First Edit | Last Edit | Text Share. <span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em;color:#A2006D">Atsme 📞📧 18:30, 24 July 2016 (UTC)
 * You refer to the "Revision history statistics" link at the bottom after you click "Page information" in the left pane of an article (not the same tool as "Revision history statistics" in the page history). Example: https://tools.wmflabs.org/xtools/wikihistory/wh.php?page_title=Example. "major edit" is an unofficial term for either all edits which are not marked minor edit by the editor, or edits which are considered major by some subjective evaluation. For the former definition, just subtract minor edits from 100% to get "major" edits. The latter "definition" is not precise enough to compute a percentage. When I load a page with the tool it says "Attention: The data for authorship is loading. Depending on the data and the size of the article, this may take a while. The page does not need to be reloaded. The data will automatically appear." But nothing more happens. It apparently refers to a feature which is supposed to fill out the "Text Share" column. The tool links to de:Benutzer:APPER/WikiHistory/Autorenbestimmung (in German). It talks about the feature but doesn't mention it's broken. PrimeHunter (talk) 21:19, 24 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Thank you, <span style="text-shadow:#F8F8FF 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em,#F4BBFF -0.2em -0.3em 0.6em,#BFFF00 0.8em 0.8em 0.6em;color:#A2006D">Atsme 📞📧 15:18, 26 July 2016 (UTC)

Page movers applying pending changes protection bug?
Observe after a WP:PM/C. It seems apparent that pending changes settings don't go away upon deletion (unlike edit prot), and do migrate with page moves (like edit prot). This result is also what got separately and posted here and here.

While it may be a "feature", I currently believe that page movers can indirectly pending-change protect pages with a set of page moves requiring suppressredirect. Example: suppose A is pending changes protected and suppose I want to pending-change-protect B. Then I can carry out this procedure:
 * 1) Move A → new location C (with suppressredirect )
 * 2) Move B → A (with suppressredirect )
 * 3) Move A → B (with suppressredirect )
 * 4) Move C → A (with suppressredirect )

I believe the page at title B is now pending changes protected, and I believe a side effect is that the non-existent C is pending changes protected as well. I don't dare test this (complicated cleanup needed by a sysop perhaps), but it's what I believe to be a logical result of pending changes settings not resetting after a deletion (or in this case, redirect suppression). A mitigation is to make it expire like edit protection does, which I'm suggesting here. — Andy W.  ( talk  · ctb) 00:02, 27 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Retracting a lot, didn't read the pc1 expiry clearly. It looks like Cyberbot II removed the template just 9 minutes later... but in any case, these two edits are still puzzling. Is Draft:Move/Syrian Civil War pending changes protected despite not existing? Or is it just a replication issue that made Cyberbot II add and remove the template in that time frame? — Andy W.  ( talk  · ctb) 00:22, 27 July 2016 (UTC)
 * (Should have done some more observation) Special:Diff/728148235 is also puzzling. Bot bug? Small addition, if a sysop would volunteer testing the steps I crossed out above anyway, just to be sure, that would be nice — Andy W.  ( talk  · ctb) 00:25, 27 July 2016 (UTC) 00:30, 27 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Had some more time to ponder, and I have an answer for myself I now think the reason this happened was because the page currently at "Syrian civil war" was briefly at "Syrian Civil War" for technical move reasons, and carried over pending changes prot briefly to the new title. Either Cyberbot II had a slow reaction (twice), or the MW backend had a slow reaction to the second quick move back to "Syrian civil war". (Sorry for some of the strike-out mess here) — Andy W.  ( talk  · ctb) 00:46, 27 July 2016 (UTC)
 * This also applies when a page with pending changes enabled was moved with the usual redirect left behind. An example of this is County High School, Leftwich, which I have moved to The County High School, Leftwich back in November 2015 and that redirect had 2 edits by Cyberbot II. GeoffreyT2000 (talk) 05:01, 27 July 2016 (UTC)

Addition of rollbacker right unlogged
The user rights log for Steven Crossin says that the group membership for that user was changed from "rollbacker" to "rollbacker and account creator" on 10 May 2008, but the addition of the rollbacker right is neither logged there nor at meta. GeoffreyT2000 (talk) 21:38, 27 July 2016 (UTC)
 * There are several renames involved and a log entry from February 2008 [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALog&type=rights&user=&page=Cro0016%7Eenwiki&year=&month=-1&tagfilter=&hide_thanks_log=1&hide_patrol_log=1&hide_tag_log=1&hide_review_log=1] apparently didn't move at the first renaming after that. PrimeHunter (talk) 22:09, 27 July 2016 (UTC)

Purpose of protocol-relative links
Maybe I'm missing something, but could somebody please explain to me why we still encourage Wikipedians to implement PRURL when Wikipedia (or Wikimedia in general) is HTTPS-only and not going back? Are there usage scenarios that I am not thinking about?

Because it seems to me now that Wikipedia is HTTPS-only it makes no difference on a technical level whether we use  or. However, PRURL does seem to irritate or confuse people. I remember when I used to convert links to PRURL, other people complained to me thinking I was destroying a working link due to a software bug, because they hadn't heard of PRURL before.

Long story short, I believe there is no point in using PRURL at all anymore. But, like I said, maybe I'm missing something. --bender235 (talk) 13:46, 26 July 2016 (UTC)
 * The only case would be mirrors who can't figure out (somehow) how to implement HTTPS. --Izno (talk) 15:12, 26 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Mirrors and forks may still be on http:. This was covered at the RfC -- Red rose64 (talk) 15:14, 26 July 2016 (UTC)


 * How many pages are we talking about here? Just so to get a perspective on the scale of the problem, and whether it is worth even considering. Just like, for instance, we don't worry about design/display issues from old browsers like IE4 since the amount of people still using them is negligible. --bender235 (talk) 15:32, 26 July 2016 (UTC)
 * PS: I am aware of this list, but it seems close to 100% there are dead (my inference from randomly checking 15 links, all dead). --bender235 (talk) 15:36, 26 July 2016 (UTC)
 * So http pages are HTTP 301 redirects to the corresponding https pages. The change also had some consequences; in particular, IE6 users on Windows XP can no longer access Wikipedia and IE7 (Windows XP, Windows Vista), IE8 (Windows XP, Windows Vista, Windows 7), IE9 (Windows Vista, Windows 7), and IE10 (Windows 7, Windows 8) users no longer have autocompletion of previous edit summaries and visited Wikipedia pages are no longer stored in the browsing history for those users. GeoffreyT2000 (talk) 16:22, 28 July 2016 (UTC)

SyntaxHighlight problem
I have a problem with  What I'd like to get (with appropriate highlighting) is: <CopyFiles> <Dest>C:\DestFiles\DestFile1.txt</Dest> </CopyFiles> What I actually get is:

<CopyFiles> <Dest>C:\DestFiles\DestFile1.txt</Dest> </CopyFiles>

If it doesn't show up above, the "    <Dest>C:\DestFiles\DestFile1.txt</Dest> </CopyFiles>}}


 * —  Earwig   talk 17:24, 28 July 2016 (UTC)
 * That seems OK, thanks. Tevildo (talk) 21:45, 28 July 2016 (UTC)

Got ping hours later and it wasn't supposed to ping
I just got a notification for this edit when I went to Wiktionary, but that was two hours ago and I've already seen that message, plus it wasn't supposed to ping as there was no mention in a new message there (I remember the latter part was raised as an issue here earlier). nyuszika7h (talk) 17:37, 22 July 2016 (UTC)
 * And I am still receiving notifications that I have read hours ago when I go to other wikis. nyuszika7h (talk) 11:11, 24 July 2016 (UTC)
 * The same happened to me a couple days ago. Maybe it's just database lag... It seems to help to mark them read. —PC-XT+ 02:14, 29 July 2016 (UTC)

Lua modules
Why did Wikipedia introduce Lua modules/templates? What is the benefit of them? - NeedAGoodUsername (talk) 15:52, 24 July 2016 (UTC)


 * if you're referring to modules such as Module:Reply to, they are used for a wide range of purposes - for example, in the template Reply to it is invoked to produce a ping notification -- samtar talk or stalk 16:00, 24 July 2016 (UTC)
 * One of benefits - it allows to create much more complex "structures" than templates allowed. Also, compare this version with Module:Demography. The code, which creates the table, is only some 10 lines long in Lua (almost everything else there is only for the table definition and style). -- Edgars2007  (talk/contribs) 16:46, 24 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Right, but doesn't it limit those who don't understand or know Lua? Seeing as people creating their own wikis tend to use templates from Wikipedia (like ambox and infobox) the old code makes it easier for them to customize how the template looks and works than the lua ones. - NeedAGoodUsername (talk) 16:59, 24 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Yes it does limit the number of people who can contribute to these modules, but we have plenty of technical editors who are able to. Is there a particular module you're struggling with? -- samtar talk or stalk 17:11, 24 July 2016 (UTC)

It's more that I'm trying to create my own wiki and using some of the templates used by Wikipedia (like Ambox, infobox, etc.) and it's really hard to change or customise them if you don't know Lua as you can't just ask people to go to another site to do changes for them. - NeedAGoodUsername (talk) 18:56, 24 July 2016 (UTC)
 * As a programmer Lua is far more accessible and approachable than parser functions which are highly unusual. Further Lua is a much better language. It makes often hard things easy, and many previously impossible things possible. Finally where it makes a difference it’s faster, speeding page load and reducing server load.-- JohnBlackburne words<sub style="margin-left:-2.0ex;">deeds 17:28, 24 July 2016 (UTC)

But isn't the page load speed outweighed to having another thing to process when generating the page? - NeedAGoodUsername (talk) 18:56, 24 July 2016 (UTC)
 * They are more functional. They are also much faster to execute on the server, noticeably improving response times for saving and rendering large pages.  Dragons flight (talk) 17:19, 24 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Many of the templates have reached the stage of being unintelligible to most users. Lua can actually simplify many of these. עוד מישהו Od Mishehu 18:52, 24 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Samtar: It is not true that in the template Reply to it is invoked to produce a ping notification. The essential feature of a notification is a link to the user page, like the one at the start of this post: you will have got a notification from me, and I didn't use a single template. -- Red rose64 (talk) 18:59, 24 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Have you tried looking in the template histories to find pre-Lua versions? There are some templates which were completely replaced, though. I remember some talk of hosting them in a repository or something, somewhere... —PC-XT+ 02:32, 29 July 2016 (UTC)

GeoHack
Apologies if this has been asked before, but is there a way to bypass the geohack page when clicking on the GPS coordinates in an article and go directly to the Google satellite view (or another view, if I wanted)?  Calidum   ¤   03:08, 27 July 2016 (UTC)
 * There's an old user script at GeoHack/Replacement script, but it will need updating (it still references the old toolserver, while geohack is now on Tool Labs) - Evad37 &#91;talk] 16:01, 27 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Could you articulate why you want to bypass the GeoHack page? Also whether you are looking to bypass on one or two pages or hundreds/thousands? --User:Ceyockey ( talk to me ) 22:31, 27 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Adding the following to your common.js will bypass GeoHack and take you straight to Google Maps satellite view:

importScript('User:Evad37/GeoHack replacement script.js'); // User:Evad37/GeoHack replacement script.js ghrs_mapprovider = "https://maps.google.com/maps?ll={latdegdec},{londegdec}&q={latdegdec},{londegdec}&hl={language}&t=h&z={osmzoom}";
 * Changing the value of  will allow you to specify a different mapping provider (you can get urls to use from Template:GeoTemplate).
 * I presume he or she wants to save time by not loading GeoHack and just going straight to the mapping service he or she wants. - Evad37 &#91;talk] 05:32, 28 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Thanks, that's exactly what I was looking for.  I was looking to avoid having to click through the GeoHack page because I find it cumbersome, as Evad said.   Calidum   ¤   01:21, 29 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Thanks Evad37, like Calidum I always found the geohacks interface to be cumbersome in offering so many options. older ≠ wiser 01:38, 29 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Just curious, could something like this be used to create a lightweight version of geohacks? I.e., perhaps a menu with just a few frequently used options? older ≠ wiser 01:52, 29 July 2016 (UTC)
 * We already have this, through appropriate setting of the  parameter. When that is not set, what you get above the fold is a big list of global mapping services, followed by many lists of regional mapping services, as you get by following the coords link at ; now compare, try out the coordinates link - what you should see is that the Great Britain links have moved above the fold, and appear on the right-hand half of the page, and all the non-global non-Great Britain services have been removed. Where a GeoHack page has two halves like that, I ignore the left-hand (Global services) half; if it doesn't, I add a suitable  . -- Red rose64 (talk) 08:45, 29 July 2016 (UTC)


 * @older ≠ wiser: Yes, I made an alternate script User:Evad37/GeoHack_replacement_script.js that will load a /GeoHack user subpage. You can format that page however you like, with whatever links you like (as I mentioned above, urls to use can be found at Template:GeoTemplate). - Evad37 &#91;talk] 08:53, 29 July 2016 (UTC)

Commonist appears to have died
Yes this is not the page to ask- but it is the page where I can talk to the technical elite. Commons has been announcing for weeks that it switching off its http service and moving to https. Well it has. On doing an upload we get a message HTTP/1.1 403 Insure Request Forbidden- use HTTPS.

Does anyone know which file has to be hacked to change a target server address (or whatever). Where do I find it on Linux Mint 17.1 box? I am looking to do a switch to Vicuna- but a few extra Java Netbeans programmers helping out on GitHub would speed the progress over there, there have been losses as well as gains particularly in the User input skin.

Back to Commonist it must be easy to add HTTPS-Commons as a new wiki so we can back to business as usual. Comments and suggestions please- or just a little bit of magic.--ClemRutter (talk) 20:03, 28 July 2016 (UTC)
 * For the record, this is about the upload tool at commons:Commons:Commonist. I haven't tried it but are you sure you are using the current version? PrimeHunter (talk) 23:05, 28 July 2016 (UTC)


 * Version 0.4.28- (could be the issue) checking there appears to be movement at github | #Mediawiki-api-announce Insecure (non-HTTPS) API Requests to become unsupported starting 2016-06-12. Following the links it appears that detail is stored in wikis.txt which is missing in my version.--ClemRutter (talk) 00:03, 29 July 2016 (UTC)
 * 0.4.28 is from 22 May 2011. No wonder it doesn't work. Get the current version at commons:Commons:Commonist. PrimeHunter (talk) 00:22, 29 July 2016 (UTC)
 * I am still in shock that five year code was working perfectly until last month! Still I will have a poke around and see what else is happening. My first attempt at using the webstart link on |http://neonstau.de/commonist/ died with the error message
 * -: image_wikimedia_commons.bpp unknown error: access denied ("java.lang.RuntimePermission","accessDeclaredMembers") so there is still some work to do. ClemRutter (talk) 10:07, 29 July 2016 (UTC)

common.css: Tables in route diagram templates
If anyone cares (I'm following the instructions at the top of the page), I've opened a discussion at MediaWiki talk:Common.css regarding display issues in Routemap in the Minerva (mobile) skin. Jc86035 (talk • contribs) Use &#123;&#123;re&#124;Jc86035&#125;&#125; to reply to me 11:00, 29 July 2016 (UTC)

Issue: Book creator, special page - missing from list on '"Special pages"
Greetings, Today while updating Tip of the day for July 29 I noticed that Book creator is not on Special pages. Wondering if an expert could please add. Thanks! <span class="plainlinks" style="background: rgba(0,0,0,.05);">— JoeHebda • (talk) 19:28, 29 July 2016 (UTC)
 * I guess you mean Special:SpecialPages which is linked on "Special pages" under "Tools". Many special pages are omitted there but Special:SpecialPages starts with Book for me. It links to Special:Book which is the Book Creator. We could change the text to "Book Creator" in MediaWiki:Coll-collection but "Book" is the name of the special page and seems OK to me. PrimeHunter (talk) 20:00, 29 July 2016 (UTC)

Is echo putting the notifications under the wrong bubble?
If I'm not mistaken, mentions and new talk page messages, currently share a similar icon of blue dialog bubbles, yet they get placed under the alert box that turns red, instead of the new messages box that turns blue, which also has the dialog bubbles as the icon. Conversely, all new alerts show up under the new messages box. It's very misleading as it makes me think I got a new message, instead of something else.—cyberpower <sub style="margin-left:-10.1ex;color:olive;font-family:Comic Sans MS"> Chat :Online 08:55, 27 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Some kinds of notification were recently moved from red to blue or vice versa, see previous threads e.g. Village pump (technical)/Archive 147. The idea is that all the "you may need to action this now" ones (which may be messages on user talk) go under red, whereas the "you can ignore this one until next week" ones (like thanks) go under blue. -- Red rose64 (talk) 09:22, 27 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Can't they at least move the icons too? The red one has a bell which I consider non-important alerts, while the blue has the messages icon which indeed do consider important.—cyberpower <sub style="margin-left:-10.1ex;color:olive;font-family:Comic Sans MS"> Chat :Online 11:33, 27 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Ya it's happening with me too. VarunFEB2003 (talk) 13:59, 27 July 2016 (UTC)
 * I hear that one of the icons is changing soon, possibly to something that looks like an inbox tray. Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 14:03, 27 July 2016 (UTC)
 * That's right, we're changing both the icon for the non-urgent (blue) category (from "speech bubbles" to a "tray"), and the appearance of the notification badges generally. See this Phabricator task for details. This change will hopefully (if we don't find any more bugs in it) be live on beta labs for testing later today, and live here on English Wikipedia on Thursday August 4th. --Roan Kattouw (WMF) (talk) 21:17, 29 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Sidenote, just for anyone else's interest/fascination. Part of the delay with rolling this more accessible design and icon-change out, has been getting it to work well with some languages that use non-Arabic numerals. If you haven't encountered these before, see examples in the ToC at bn:বাংলা ভাষা and lo:ພາສາລາວ, and links to more here). I find this intriguing, and some other Wikimedians probably will, too. :) Quiddity (WMF) (talk) 21:43, 29 July 2016 (UTC)

New "basic" usergroup?
Is anyone else seeing a new empty "basic" usergroup at Special:ListGroupRights? Was this the result of a phab ticket? — Andy W. ( talk  · ctb) 22:05, 28 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Yes I see it. And it is not just on enwiki but on meta and on commons as well. Which probably means it was a global rollout. It doesn't look like sysops have the ability to assign it though so not entirely sure what the purpose is. The only permission assigned to the group is the ability to bypass tor blocks. Seems like a duplicate of IPBE to me. --Majora (talk) 22:32, 28 July 2016 (UTC)
 * I cannot make sense of it. [//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:ListGroupRights?uselang=qqx uselang=qqx] says the name "basic" is made by MediaWiki:Group-basic but there is no such message. No group is listed as able to add or remove the basic group at Special:ListGroupRights. Special:UserRights/Example (admin only) lists it under "Groups you cannot change" in my admin account. But I can change IP block exemptions, a group which includes the only right by basic: torunblocked. I suspect basic is a bug or incomplete feature. PrimeHunter (talk) 22:39, 28 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Don't see any phab requests, I asked on [Wikitech-l], awaiting response. — xaosflux  Talk 01:11, 29 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Hi all. Yes, as I just wrote on wikitech-l, this would appear to be a mistake. Some configuration code was being moved to a new system and a GrantPermissions line for 'basic' to have torunblocked was added under GroupPermissions in the new file instead of GrantPermissions. I'll see if I can get it fixed - thanks for pointing it out. --Alex Monk (WMF) (talk) 01:48, 29 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Mystery solved, thank you for the speedy response . — xaosflux  Talk 01:52, 29 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Another developer merged and deployed my fix to the servers at 04:04 this morning. --Alex Monk (WMF) (talk) 17:29, 29 July 2016 (UTC)

User:MarkS/Extra edit buttons
This is an extremely awesome feature offered via a script but it is no longer functional and is not working even with the browsers and skins most preferred. Can a new version of this script be developed or someone fix whatever issues this has. I really want to use it but 'am unable to. Thanks VarunFEB2003 (talk) 11:58, 27 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Have you tried User talk:MarkS/Extra edit buttons and m:User:Krinkle/Scripts/InsertWikiEditorButton? Helder 20:49, 27 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Thanks. VarunFEB2003 (talk) 10:18, 31 July 2016 (UTC)

Template:Cite journal
Hello. Is there any particular reason why titles are not displayed in italics with this template? I must point out that I'm not a technical geniusǃ So I'm just asking whether that's supposed to be like that.--Liuthar (talk) 21:10, 30 July 2016 (UTC)
 * It's deliberate. See MOS:TITLEQUOTES. PrimeHunter (talk) 21:51, 30 July 2016 (UTC)
 * That was quick – thanks! Yet, I personally don't find it particularly aesthetic when the typography is inconsistent. But I'm afraid that will hardly count as an argument in this respect...--Hubon (talk) 22:23, 30 July 2016 (UTC)
 * I agree, by the way.--Liuthar (talk) 22:56, 30 July 2016 (UTC)
 * This sort of thing is best discussed at the template's talk page, i.e. Help talk:Citation Style 1 (redirected from Template talk:Cite journal). There (and in the archives) you will find many threads on matters of styling like this. -- Red rose64 (talk) 22:26, 30 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the advice, but I guess we'll have to skip that...--Liuthar (talk) 22:56, 30 July 2016 (UTC)
 * My point is, it's not a VPT matter. -- Red rose64 (talk) 23:09, 30 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Okay, then I guess we're done here.--Hubon (talk) 16:23, 31 July 2016 (UTC)

Correct drawing of the capital letter "i" and the lower case "L" on computer keyboards and in typing.
Computer keyboards and typing the letters do not have the correct drawing for the capital letter "i" and the lowercase letter "L". They both look the same. It can be confusing for people trying to learn our language or for young ones. Examples: Type in Isle or Israel into search box. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Deanroysden (talk • contribs) 19:10, 31 July 2016 (UTC)
 * What do you expect us to do about this problem? עוד מישהו Od Mishehu 19:52, 31 July 2016 (UTC)
 * It displays differently in the wikicode versus on the actual screen. I displays with the bars in the code but displays without it once rendered making it look just like l (lowercase L). We can't really change that without changing the way the entire site renders. Which really isn't going to happen. You could probably change the way the site renders for you in your personal CSS script though. --Majora (talk) 01:09, 1 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Wikipedia doesn't set a font in the default Vector skin or the former default MonoBook. It just uses the default sans-serif font of your browser. If you don't like this font then you can probably change it in your browser and it will also affect other sites which don't set a font. The edit box uses the default monospace font in your browser (assuming it uses monospace for textarea). Registered users have some options at "Edit area font style" at Special:Preferences. If you want to change font of rendered pages then it has to be done in your personal CSS. For example, this in will use the default serif font of your browser:

body {font-family: serif; }
 * No font-family specified by me: Illinois.  specified: Illinois .   specified: Illinois .   specified: Illinois . See more at Typography. PrimeHunter (talk) 10:53, 1 August 2016 (UTC)

Who-has-edited tool?
Is there a tool which, for a given article, will tell me whether I, or another named editor, have edited it, and maybe list the first/ most recent contribution, or list all of them? Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 14:47, 1 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Click on "Edits by User" underneath the search bar in page history, and it will take you to that tool: Example. Mamyles (talk) 15:10, 1 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Thank you. That looks like what I want, but it's not working; it says I have no edits on Ernest Durig, for instance, which I created yesterday, and still have the majority of edits. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 15:34, 1 August 2016 (UTC)
 * It works now "Found 33 edits by Pigsonthewing on Ernest Durig (100.0% of the total edits made to the page)" [//tools.wmflabs.org/sigma/usersearch.py?name=Pigsonthewing&page=Ernest_Durig&server=enwiki&max=]. I don't really know what happened for you. [//wikitech.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Tool_Labs/Database#Identifying_lag This] suggests only a few minutes lag is normal if I'm understanding correctly, but maybe something was up then. Nil Einne (talk) 17:25, 1 August 2016 (UTC)

Error display in Kraków article
Can you please confirm or otherwise that it is not a single PC error? There's a huge blank space below the article Kraków, five times the size of the actual article, making the scroll bar on my monitor tiny. I tried to locate the possible source of the error in the editing window, but found nothing. If you also get this enormous blank space below the article, please comment in talk. Thank you in advance,  Poeticbent  <span style="color:#FFFFFF;font-size:7.0pt;font-weight:bold;background:#FF88AF;border:1px solid #DF2929;padding:0.0em 0.2em;">talk 17:42, 1 August 2016 (UTC)
 * I suspect which exhibits the same problem.  You were the last editor of that template so perhaps you should undo your changes to see if that resolves the problem.
 * —Trappist the monk (talk) 17:56, 1 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Yes, it's because of but it displayed normally before [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Image_label&diff=prev&oldid=730021226 this] edit to Image label by Matt Fitzpatrick. Matt made changes to the documentation [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template%3AImage_label_begin%2Fdoc&type=revision&diff=730430135&oldid=729856909] but I haven't examined it. PrimeHunter (talk) 18:10, 1 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Matt changed the default  value from 400 to 1. I'm not sure how Image label works but calling it with   seems to have solved the issue here.[//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Krak%C3%B3w_districts&diff=732551679&oldid=487933568] The documentation says x and y must be between 0 and 1 but they are large in  so maybe my fix is not the best. PrimeHunter (talk) 18:29, 1 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Anyhow, the error in display is gone. Thank you .  Poeticbent  <span style="color:#FFFFFF;font-size:7.0pt;font-weight:bold;background:#FF88AF;border:1px solid #DF2929;padding:0.0em 0.2em;">talk 18:44, 1 August 2016 (UTC)

Tech News: 2016-31
<section begin="technews-2016-W31"/> Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Recent changes
 * A prototype for structured data on Commons is available now.
 * The RevisionSlider beta feature can now be tested on mediawiki.org, German Wikipedia, Arabic Wikipedia and Hebrew Wikipedia.

Problems
 * Renamed users on some wikis were not connected to their account on other wikis between 20 July and 21 July. This has been fixed.

Changes this week
 * Octicons-sync.svg The new version of MediaWiki will be on test wikis and MediaWiki.org from 2 August. It will be on non-Wikipedia wikis and some Wikipedias from 3 August. It will be on all wikis from 4 August (calendar).

Meetings
 * Octicons-sync.svg You can join the next meeting with the VisualEditor team. During the meeting, you can tell developers which bugs you think are the most important. The meeting will be on 2 August at 19:00 (UTC). See how to join.
 * The next CREDIT showcase will be on 3 August at 18:00 (UTC). This is to present and comment on new gadgets, small projects and works in progress. See how to join.
 * Octicons-tools.svg You can join the next meeting with the Architecture committee. The topic this week is "notifications in core". The meeting will be on 3 August at 21:00 (UTC). See how to join.

Tech news prepared by tech ambassadors and posted by bot • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe. <section end="technews-2016-W31"/> 21:48, 1 August 2016 (UTC)

Search still not functioning as Search
30 months ago, I complained that when I entered "Brolin" in Wikipedia search, instead of being shown a list of search results, I was taken straight to this page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brolin Today, the same thing is still happening!

This seems to be a serious flaw in Wikipedia. "Search" does not mean "Redirect me to a page that matches the search term."

If I google "Brolin" the first page of results shows 3 Wikipedia pages, including the one I was looking for. Wikipedia search, meanwhile, seems more like Google's "I'm feeling lucky" option, although I think most people would feel pretty unlucky if Google sent them to a page about Famotidine...

What went wrong with Wikipedia search? And when will this problem finally be addressed?? Dadge (talk) 13:07, 30 July 2016 (UTC)
 * This is a deliberate feature. The top right of search pages have a "Help" link going to Help:Searching. The lead shows three ways to make a search instead of going to directly to a perfect match. Registered users can choose three alternative skins at Special:Preferences. All three have both a "Go" and "Search" button. The current default Vector skin doesn't use buttons at the search box but relies on other methods. PrimeHunter (talk) 14:26, 30 July 2016 (UTC)
 * The old discussion is at Village pump (technical)/Archive 123. PrimeHunter (talk) 14:43, 30 July 2016 (UTC)
 * While it is mentioned at the link, I'll add that I'm often in a position of not wanting the Search box to take me directly to the article (that said, I often do so I'm happy that it is the default approach). Whenever I want to do a search but do not want to be automatically brought to an article that might match my search string, I simply click on the magnifying glass. That brings up a search page which I believe works exactly the way you wanted to work.-- S Philbrick (Talk)  15:09, 30 July 2016 (UTC)
 * I use MonoBook skin. In most Wikimedia project wikis, the action of the key is the same as clicking, but at Commons, it's as if I clicked . How can I configure that search box at Commons so that it sends a , so that it's consistent with the others? -- Red rose64 (talk) 19:48, 30 July 2016 (UTC)
 * I would like to know this also.  Rcsprinter123    (jaw)  22:33, 1 August 2016 (UTC)
 * The OP's problem seems to be that "Brolin" redirects to Famotidine, where there is no mention whatsoever of Brolin or whether the name is somehow connected. It seems to me that instead of a redirect, Brolin should be a disambiguation page that includes James Brolin, Josh Brolin, and perhaps other individuals. Akld guy (talk) 21:00, 30 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Fixed - I included all tiles including the word "Brolin" on the page the OP expected to get. עוד מישהו Od Mishehu 03:09, 31 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the replies and for fixing this particular instance, but there must be more. I acknowledge that in most cases, e.g. "Birmingham" the search box takes people to the most likely (?) page, and there is a link at the top to a disambiguation page, but if there are a lot of examples of the Brolin kind that do not have a link to such a page, perhaps it'd be better if the search box didn't operate in this "deliberate" way. Is there a way to find out how many searches exist on WP of the Brolin kind? Dadge (talk) 14:16, 31 July 2016 (UTC)
 * The problem is not with the Search feature, per se. If the Search takes you to the "most likely" page, which is not the article you wanted, there is a clear need for a disambiguation page for the searched term. Whenever you find a case like that, you're welcome to follow Od Mishehu's example and create a disambig page. Akld guy (talk) 00:58, 1 August 2016 (UTC)
 * As an aside, redirects to pages which don't explain the term and where it's not obvious are one of my pet peeves. A case like Brolin isn't actually quite so bad since if you have some idea what Brolin is, you can probably gues you're at the right place but I've definitely seen cases where plenty of people would have no idea the relevance of what they're reading. Nil Einne (talk) 17:33, 1 August 2016 (UTC)

Strange increase in main page views on July 20th
I was curious about the page view statistics on the main page, and there was a giant increase on July 20th-21rst. Like... from around 20 million a day to 60 million a day. Is this accurate? Did the page view statistics tool change somehow to count more visits? Rwelean (talk) 02:42, 2 August 2016 (UTC)
 * I am also baffled, see T141506. I think it might be some sort of bot that is using a human-like user agent. I will try to reach out to some folks who may be able to do a deeper investigation &mdash; MusikAnimal  talk  03:33, 2 August 2016 (UTC)

Coordinate formats
Please join a discussion of geographic coordinate formats. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 12:50, 2 August 2016 (UTC)

Admins online now
I remember a page years ago that listed admins online with a green dot. What happened to that?

If that no longer exists, maybe we could have something like a page that shows admins who edited within the last 15 minutes listed in order of most recent. (I know you are already thinking of pointing out AN/I to me. ) I just thought this might be useful for editors to request a low-profile DENY-type sock block rather than an AN/I post or bringing the SPI back to life. I suspect some socks like the prestige of an AN/I mention or an open SPI. Also, such a page may be useful to editors for other purposes. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 02:31, 2 August 2016 (UTC)

Ah, I just noticed Admin help. Well, I'd still prefer the "who's on now" page suggested above. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 02:33, 2 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Maybe could create a script that would update such a page. It should probably be opt-in as there are content-focused admins who rarely do admin-type activities. --<b style="color:navy">Neil N </b> <i style="color:blue">talk to me</i> 02:48, 2 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Good point about non-admin-type activities. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 02:50, 2 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Try Special:Log/block. It shows blocks issued recently by all admins, which lets you know who is active. EdJohnston (talk) 02:59, 2 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Does Admin help create notifications for all admins? Or only those online?  Eve rgr een Fir  (talk) 03:18, 2 August 2016 (UTC)
 * There are no notifications created. Admins have to look at the admin dashboard or monitor Category:Wikipedians_looking_for_help_from_administrators. --<b style="color:navy">Neil N </b> <i style="color:blue">talk to me</i> 05:49, 2 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Oh okay! Was wondering!  Eve rgr een Fir  (talk) 05:55, 2 August 2016 (UTC)
 * That is a very good idea, EdJohnston. Thank you. :) Anna Frodesiak (talk) 03:37, 2 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Or the protection/deletion log, etc., depending on what area you are seeking admin assistance. An "active admins" page isn't a bad idea but I think admins should opt-in to it, as many may prefer not to have themselves advertised &mdash; MusikAnimal  talk  03:59, 2 August 2016 (UTC)
 * 's apersonbot/recently-active may be useful to you. —&thinsp;JJMC89&thinsp; (T·C) 16:06, 2 August 2016 (UTC)

Open Street Map
Hi, for some reason I can never successfully upload a map crop from OSM. It always comes up as a dead file or says it exceeds limit or something. Useless. What am I doing wrong. I want to crop a map of Atlantic City, new Jersey for use as a pin map in articles like Club Harlem. Can somebody crop and upload one?♦ Dr. Blofeld  15:10, 2 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Map uploaded as File:Atlantic City, New Jersey - OpenStreetMap.png. Module as Module:Location map/data/Atlantic City NJ. I'd like to specify that I don't have a clue what I'm doing when it comes to modue naming / parameters / convensions, but it should all work. If you want the bounds of the map tweaking let me know ... happy to. --Tagishsimon (talk) 15:39, 2 August 2016 (UTC)
 * What are you doing wrong? I enter OSM, hit the Export button and specify that I want to "Manually select a different area". I select my area. Then on the right side of the page, hit the Share icon, tick "set custom dimensions", and arrange the share rectangle to be the same as the export rectangle. I download the map from the right side of the screen - the share - but take the coordinates from the left side of the screen - the export side. hth. --Tagishsimon (talk) 15:43, 2 August 2016 (UTC)

Awesome, thanks. Boundary looks fine to me, though I'm not that familar with the city as a whole. Let me see, I access the site, find the location, crop an area, save the coordinates and export. It says it saves it, but then I access the file and it's dead. Perhaps I'm missing the "share" button, I'll look shortly.♦ Dr. Blofeld  10:44, 3 August 2016 (UTC)

How to include JS pages in a category?
How is it possible to achieve? I mean example like User:Ronhjones/pdcV2.js in Category:Copy to Wikimedia Commons reviewed by a human. --RezonansowyakaRezy (talk &#124; contribs) 10:13, 3 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Because the MediaWiki parser expands templates on JavaScript pages, and in that expansion, ignores everything except categories. The page in question had  and the code inside  has this code   and  doesn't exist, so   is emitted.  fixes it. -- Red rose64 (talk) 10:51, 3 August 2016 (UTC)


 * (edit conflict, some of this written before Redrose64's edit to the page, some after) JavaScript pages are actually evaluated like wikitext pages. The result is ignored when the page itself is rendered but it's used when link tables are built. That's why all the linkbacks in User:Rezonansowy/common.js work. For example,  is in a JavaScript comment so it doesn't affect the JavaScript, but it's not in a wikitext comment so it causes an entry at Special:WhatLinksHere/User:Where next Columbus?/commonsmover.js. User:Ronhjones/pdcV2.js has the code  . This causes a transclusion of Copy to Wikimedia Commons which adds Category:Copy to Wikimedia Commons reviewed by a human. It's probably unintentional here. Some scripts add code like   at the end. The wikitext comment tags prevent the code between them from being evaluated as wikitext. They are inside JavaScript comment tags so they don't cause a JavaScript error. Redrose64 didn't do this in  so the JavaScript is still evaluated as wikitext. Page information still shows many transclusions and Category:Classified Chemical Structures. If you want to add a JavaScript page to a category then just remember to place the category code inside   or after   on a line, so it's in a JavaScript comment and doesn't interfere with the script. PrimeHunter (talk) 11:17, 3 August 2016 (UTC)

Thank you for such quick and detailed answer! --RezonansowyakaRezy (talk &#124; contribs) 12:19, 3 August 2016 (UTC)

Unregistered users see old revisions
I have seen three reports today that unregistered users are seeing old revisions of pages. I examined it and it's true for many pages which have been edited since yesterday. It is not about browser caching. Reloading the pages doesn't help. They have to be purged to force the current revision to unregistered users. I tested random pages at Special:RecentChanges. For the majority, the time at "This page was last modified" at the bottom shows that the current revision is not being served. At Help desk I currently see 18:30, 28 July 2016 when logged out. There are 30 revisions since then. I always see the current revision when logged in. I'm in Denmark and using a desktop browser. PrimeHunter (talk) 19:13, 29 July 2016 (UTC)
 * I've gotten the same experience logged out about 3-4 hours ago. — Andy W. ( talk  · ctb) 19:28, 29 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Unregistered users have always been served cached versions as opposed to logged-in users. Ruslik_ Zero 19:53, 29 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Yes, cached versions for performance reasons but usually not old page revisions as far as I know, at least not in a majority of the cases. I don't think the multiple reports today is a coincidence. PrimeHunter (talk) 20:05, 29 July 2016 (UTC)
 * I had the same experience a few hours ago when not logged in. It was disconcerting to not see a post I had made earlier on a ref desk and a reply to it. The post and reply appeared immediately after I logged in. Akld guy (talk) 20:55, 29 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Cross-referencing from Help desk: Help_desk I can only link to this section when logged on. Richard Nowell (talk) 13:27, 30 July 2016 (UTC)
 * I don't know whether this is related but seems like it might be. I'm an OTRS agent trying to answer questions that are emailed to Wikimedia. Every so often I get a message about not seeing the most recent version of the page but it is usually a one off email. A day or two ago I fielded three such emails in the same day, one of which claimed that purging didn't resolve it. As a possible aside they noted that the material look different in the mobile version compared to the desktop version. I just wonder if there was some issue keeping the database caught up.-- S Philbrick (Talk)  15:13, 30 July 2016 (UTC)
 * I've reported this on Phabricator as it does look like there is an increase in these occurences: T141693. --Glaisher (talk) 16:50, 30 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Happening with me too when I log out and these are increasing day by day. VarunFEB2003 (talk) 10:20, 31 July 2016 (UTC)
 * I've just uploaded a screenshot of the article Citizen Science when I am logged out, on to Photobucket.com. The screenshot shows the article with a 'Very Long' tag, which was removed at 17.11 by another editor. The screenshot I took was made at 21.45. I don't think the patch for T141687 has fully worked; it hasn't for me anyway. It was odd; I purposely went to the WP main page, logged-off, cleared my browser (IE) history and cache etc and then went to the CS article, which had the tag on it, but I had just answered on the Talk page about it being removed. Bizarre. So, I took a screenshot which has a 'created ‎31 ‎July ‎2016, ‏‎21:46:00' property as a time signature. I can send the image to anyone if needs be by email or post it somewhere, but it is screenshot of a WP article- just saying. Richard Nowell (talk) 21:23, 31 July 2016 (UTC)
 * It didn't work because the edit (made at 17:11 UTC) was done prior to the fix deployment (at 17:49 UTC). The fix will only take effect for edits done after the patch was deployed to English Wikipedia so it didn't work in this case. If you think that all pages which didn't get purged during the breakage should be purged, please request that on Phabricator. P.S. I have manually purged Citizen Science now. --Glaisher (talk) 04:23, 1 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Ah,OK. Thankyou. So unless an article has been manually purged it will not be up-to-date, but then after a purge it will function as it should do? Or solely the act of editing itself is sufficient- just that I'd edited the CS Talk page at 20:42 UTC but I could not see the edit when not logged on, as above. Richard Nowell (talk) 07:17, 1 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Theoretically, making an edit should invalidate the cache for both logged-in and logged-out users but this is not 100% reliable always. There is a very old well-known bug that makes it show logged-out users outdated revisions and you might have been affected by that bug but the recent bug only made that happen very frequently and also serve very outdated revisions. Since this temporary bug was introduced during last week's deployment train and was fixed in a few days, it shouldn't cause issues now but you may be affected by the old bug sometimes (which has been occurring for years). --Glaisher (talk) 05:19, 2 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Thanks for reply. It's great to know the WP programming is in good hands. I'd assumed, wrongly, that any pages effected by this recent bug would 'retrospectively auto-purge', which is of course impractical for an unknown number of articles. Although having written that, some people might get a shock if they only planned to change a ref but then found a large section as the article 'catches up'.  I guess a fix which compared "the last edit time on the edit page" with "the last time updated on the article's front page" and then adjusted "the last time updated" to be up-to-date could cause mayhem. Rgds Richard Nowell (talk) 08:02, 2 August 2016 (UTC)
 * One way that this has happened in years past is redirection caching. If you visit, say, Citizen Science, you are apparently redirected to Citizen science, but this might not be the current version but the version that was current last time the redirect was updated. If you make an edit to the article, the page that is sent back to you is the latest version, because you're not going through the redirect; but if you visit Citizen Science again, you might still get an old version. Try going to the redirect page and carrying out a WP:PURGE there. -- Red rose64 (talk) 13:31, 2 August 2016 (UTC)

Why is this article showing an old version when I'm logged out?
Hi

I'm wondering why the article 3DBenchy is showing an old version of the article when I'm logged out, I've tried it on several computers and they all give the same results so its not my cache.

Thanks

--John Cummings (talk) 16:28, 30 July 2016 (UTC)
 * This is the same problem as above. — crh 23   &thinsp;(Talk) 16:31, 30 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Ah, thanks I've been told that if I add ?=purge to the end of the article URL it will fix it, and it does :) --John Cummings (talk) 16:32, 30 July 2016 (UTC)
 * that should do nothing. The syntax is  if there is no   in the existing URL, but   if there is already a   -- Red rose64 (talk) 19:44, 30 July 2016 (UTC)

Not my area (almost nothing technical is ;-) so you are not to take these comments as if I were well-informed about this, but I think that one of the usual questions is whether the affected people might be from the same part of the world or using the same ISP. It's apparently possible for popular pages to get cached in between the WMF's servers and the user's computer. (Think about some corporate network employee saying, "We keep downloading Wikipedia's Main Page. Maybe we should just make a copy of that locally, and save the traffic..."). So if someone has location information and has some reason to believe that is relevant, then you could pre-emptively share it on the Phab task. However, given the number of people affected, it seems unlikely to me. (Also,  doesn't affect those intermediate caches, so that's another strike against this idea.) Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 06:43, 31 July 2016 (UTC)


 * Thanks, well I don't know, I'm not sure what happened, I tried your solution on another page I had the same issue with and it works. --John Cummings (talk) 19:39, 31 July 2016 (UTC)
 * I've been going to the page history and clicking on the topmost version. This still (1 August) presents an old version, with the pink "old version" warning bar, but an arrow for a "newer revision" appears just beneath. It's possible to click through from here to get to the real latest version. Workaround until it's fixed. Its now happening to my sandbox drafts as well now.... --John Cummings (talk) 15:48, 1 August 2016 (UTC)
 * : Can you repeat what you just described above (clicking topmost link) and -- IF the pink header shows up again -- cut and paste the URL of the page displayed here inside no-wiki tags? Koala Tea Of Mercy ( KTOM's Articulations &amp; Invigilations ) 18:13, 1 August 2016 (UTC)
 * When I encountered the situation at the Refdesk a few days ago, an ?action=purge actually did fix it. Presumably a meddling ISP wouldn't have known about the purge any more than they knew about the intervening edits, so I think this rules out that idea, at least in my case. Wnt (talk) 23:21, 3 August 2016 (UTC)

New cite error "Check date values in date"
Plz, could someone check the new cite error that appears in accessdate for the date format "Month Year" ("February 1900") ? Note that the table in Help:CS1_errors explicitly allows for such format. This is a new cite error that appears only when editing. If access-date now needs a day, then this should be documented immediately or people will get upset. R fassbind – talk  18:56, 31 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Your example itself is malformed for another reason (you cannot have an access date before recent times), so perhaps it would help us to understand the specific problem if you were to link us to the article containing the error, or which contained the error. --Izno (talk) 19:34, 31 July 2016 (UTC)
 * As with the previous section, this is a matter for Help talk:Citation Style 1, where you will find that there have been several recent changes to parameter validation. -- Red rose64 (talk) 20:35, 31 July 2016 (UTC)
 * I would mention it in wikitable Examples of unacceptable dates and how to fix them. Best,  R fassbind  – talk   20:51, 31 July 2016 (UTC)
 * ✅. I have updated the documentation. – Jonesey95 (talk) 18:20, 4 August 2016 (UTC)

Made the plunge to Linux
I now have one Windows machine and one Linux machine.

Is there anything available for Linux for use on WP with the functionality of AWB? (Auto-page loading, list making, regex search/replace, etc.) The Transhumanist 17:45, 4 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Sadly, the answer is basically AWB under wine, as far as I know. — crh 23   &thinsp;(Talk) 19:04, 4 August 2016 (UTC)
 * I heard Wine is a (tweak tweak) nightmare for this type of thing. Would VirtualBox work better for this? The Transhumanist 22:30, 4 August 2016 (UTC)

Are there faster tools?
Hello tech gurus,

I'm looking for enlightenment...

I use LINKY and AWB for loading and editing pages fast. Besides page-loading and regex search/replace, I rely heavily on AWB's list makers (both the built-in one and the database scanner).

Are there any other tools that can speed up performance for list building (straight lists and structured lists) and copy editing in general?

What power tools do you use to speed your performance? The Transhumanist 17:40, 4 August 2016 (UTC)
 * You can take a look at petscan for list building. -- Edgars2007  (talk/contribs) 19:47, 4 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Looks interesting. Thank you! The Transhumanist 22:32, 4 August 2016 (UTC)

Enhanced editing toolbar messed up
The "enhanced editing toolbar", available as an option under the Preferences/Editing tab, has been messed up for the last couple of days. I've tried different skins, clearing the browser cache and restarting the browser, all to no avail. Although the different areas of the toolbar still have links that appear to work, the icon graphics are missing, e.g., the "I" for "Italic", the globe for "Link", etc. The areas that should have link icons or buttons are blank. Has anybody else seen problems with this feature? I've made no changes to my browser recently, so I blame some change on the Wikipedia end. Have any edits recently been made to the toolbar code, or is there an issue with the Wikimedia servers not sending the icon graphics files? — Quicksilver (Hydrargyrum)T @ 20:04, 3 August 2016 (UTC)


 * Works for me. Does loading https://en.wikipedia.org/w/extensions/WikiEditor/modules/images/toolbar/button-sprite.svg work for you? You should see an image with all the icons in it. Kaldari (talk) 00:24, 4 August 2016 (UTC)


 * Yes, I can see all the sprites in my browser. To be sure, I also downloaded the SVG file and opened it with Inkscape, and I see no difference between Inkscape and what the browser shows me.  My primary browser is Mozilla SeaMonkey, and it has worked very well on Wikipedia for years.  I tried Firefox and Opera, and both browsers (still) seem to be rendering the sprites in the toolbar correctly.  I'm running on Linux, so I don't have access to any Apple or Microsoft browser.  Interestingly, when I checked the button-sprite.svg page properties, it shows that the SVG file was most recently edited on Tue 02 Aug 2016 10:33:32 AM PDT, just a couple of days ago.  I wonder if the toolbar code has recently been modified as well.  Perhaps it is now sending code that SeaMonkey and possibly other browsers don't like. — Quicksilver (Hydrargyrum)T @ 03:35, 5 August 2016 (UTC)

Gadget filling templates not working
In preferences, I have "Enable tracking bugs on Phabricator using the template" checked, but it's not doing anything. Just creating a generic template. JS problem?—cyberpower <sub style="margin-left:-13.5ex;color:\#FF8C00;font-family:Comic Sans MS"><span style="color:\#FF8C00">Chat :Limited Access 19:31, 4 August 2016 (UTC)
 * In my error log I’m seeing the following on loading this page:
 * [Error] Failed to load resource: the server responded with a status of 500 (HTTP/2.0 500)     (queryTasks, line 0) https://tools.wmflabs.org/phabricator-bug-status/queryTasks?callback=jQuery1113009742425801232457_1470344754910&ids=%5B141687%2C141506%5D&_=1470344754911
 * Don’t know if it is related.-- JohnBlackburne words<sub style="margin-left:-2.0ex;">deeds 21:08, 4 August 2016 (UTC)
 * I've asked the service owner to restart it on labs. (per old notes at MediaWiki_talk:Gadget-BugStatusUpdate.js). Quiddity (WMF) (talk) 22:56, 4 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Fixed. Quiddity (WMF) (talk) 00:15, 5 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Confirmed it's now working. Thanks.—cyberpower <sub style="margin-left:-10.1ex;color:olive;font-family:Comic Sans MS"> Chat :Online 08:13, 5 August 2016 (UTC)

Internal Statistics Link Doesn't Work
When using the See here link for the job queue statistic ("jobs") in the sub-section Internal statistics on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Statistics, a page appears which has the following coding; obviously something is wrong. I've tried it ten times or so. I'm using IE 11.

"This is the HTML representation of the JSON format. HTML is good for debugging, but is unsuitable for application use. Specify the format parameter to change the output format. To see the non-HTML representation of the JSON format, set format=json. See the complete documentation, or the API help for more information."

{   "batchcomplete": "", "query": { "statistics": { "pages": 39901391, "articles": 5209646, "edits": 842164719, "images": 851915, "users": 28789521, "activeusers": 112067, "admins": 1291, "jobs": 30049, "queued-massmessages": 0 }   } } Richard Nowell (talk) 07:17, 5 August 2016 (UTC)
 * No, that is the right coding. You are accessing an API page, their output looks like this. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 09:32, 5 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Working as designed. At Special:Statistics the entry says
 * See [//en.wikipedia.org/w/api.php?action=query&meta=siteinfo&siprop=statistics here] for the job queue statistic ("jobs")
 * What happens when you click that link is that you run an API query, and the report of that query is what you've pasted above, and as it says, it's in JSON format. The parenthesis ("jobs") at Special:Statistics indicates that the item that you're interested in is . -- Red rose64 (talk) 09:37, 5 August 2016 (UTC)
 * (edit conflict) The link is and says   in your quote. What makes you think something is wrong? If you were expecting a page with nice formatting for human readers then note the url starts with https://en.wikipedia.org/w/api.php. This is part of API (MediaWIki's API) which is designed for programs and not humans. The link is made by MediaWiki:Statistics-footer which is blank by default in MediaWiki installations. Administrators at the English Wikipedia have added some links to it. Do you know a better way to show the number of jobs to humans? format=json seems worse. PrimeHunter (talk) 09:38, 5 August 2016 (UTC)
 * I think that it did use  until two or three years ago. -- Red rose64 (talk) 09:56, 5 August 2016 (UTC)
 * I'm confused. As it was a link that I might have expected to go to a usual Wiki page, it seemed reasonable to ask as it is an uneditable page. The same link is found in the Help:Job_queue page in the section 'Typical values' and retrieves a similar page as above when the link is followed. I'd assumed that it was for humans which is why it had a link. My query was not about the correctness of the coding, but as much about how it was displayed. I have a vague memory of being taken via a link to a page that listed "jobs to do" that editors might interact with: That's what I was looking for. Richard Nowell (talk) 11:26, 5 August 2016 (UTC)
 * The link has an external link icon to hint it isn't a wiki page. API pages are generated by the software. I don't know a better place the job queue length can be seen. The line says:
 * See [//en.wikipedia.org/w/api.php?action=query&meta=siteinfo&siprop=statistics here] for the job queue statistic ("jobs")
 * Users can click job queue to see what the job queue is. Special:Statistics is a page about statistics, not about work for editors to do. The link was obviously placed there for humans to click it. I'm just saying it leads to an API page which is designed for programs, since that appears to be the only option. If you want to see the job queue length displayed on wiki pages then you can file a Phabricator request for a magic word giving the current job queue length. Note however that wiki pages are cached and the job queue length fluctuates quickly so it would be useless on a wiki page unless the page is purged before a user reads the number. Maybe you were looking for Community portal which is linked under "Interaction" in the left pane. PrimeHunter (talk) 12:22, 5 August 2016 (UTC)
 * OK, thankyou for your help. Perhaps it could be explained more on the pages concerned? Others might not know about API and might be expecting something different (like me). Richard Nowell (talk) 12:56, 5 August 2016 (UTC)

Watchlist order changes - yuck
Ok, by reading here I found out how to rid myself of the dreadful bold watchlist... but what about the order? I loved that it had the edit time first instead of the article. It was much easier to keep track of new edits. As of yesterday it changed. Is there something I can add to my common.js page to fix this? Fyunck(click) (talk) 08:21, 5 August 2016 (UTC)


 * Did you reset your prefs, by any chance? Or turn on Wikidata changes?  To get that watchlist style, you have to go to Special:Preferences and choose "Group changes by page in recent changes and watchlist".  Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 15:20, 5 August 2016 (UTC)
 * I did reset my prefs to fix the "unable to edit" bug that started yesterday. Thanks. Fyunck(click) (talk) 17:23, 5 August 2016 (UTC)

Wikipedia reFill
When I try to access https://tools.wmflabs.org/refill/index.php, I get: "504 Gateway Time-out nginx/1.11.1" --Jax 0677 (talk) 18:25, 5 August 2016 (UTC)
 * May be another Labs outage, seeing as other WMFLabs dependent tools have the same issue. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 18:34, 5 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Tool Labs had an outage. Service has since been restored. —&thinsp;JJMC89&thinsp; (T·C) 20:58, 5 August 2016 (UTC)

Alerts and notices not clearing
(On latest Chrome,) my Alerts and Notices no longer clear. This has persisted for >1 week. Lfstevens (talk) 08:12, 5 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Hi. A few questions so that I can better understand the problem:
 * Are the notifications from this wiki, or from cross-wiki? (Cross-wiki notifications can have problems if you use a browser extension like Privacy Badger, in which case you need to whitelist the sister-wiki domains).
 * By "no longer clear", what steps are you trying after you've clicked the badge to open the panel(flyout)? Have you tried clicking either the "Mark all as read" button at the top, or the blue-dots next to individual notifications? Do either of those work, to reduce the number in the badge? (Note: The Alerts used to automatically mark themselves as "read" as soon as we opened the panel, but this was changed partially because of the re-sorting (explained above) and partially because some editors were missing important items)
 * Are you using the mobile site? (A number of fixes are underway for mobileweb width problems and adding a "mark all as read" button).
 * Thanks. Quiddity (WMF) (talk) 16:54, 5 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Are the notifications from this wiki, or from cross-wiki?
 * en.wikipedia.org
 * By "no longer clear", what steps are you trying after you've clicked the badge to open the panel(flyout)?
 * I click the alert. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lfstevens (talk • contribs) 03:22, 6 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Do either of those work, to reduce the number in the badge?
 * Clicking Mark all clears it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lfstevens (talk • contribs) 03:22, 6 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Are you using the mobile site?
 * No. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lfstevens (talk • contribs) 03:22, 6 August 2016 (UTC)

Who moved my cheese?
Did the positions of "watchlist" and "preferences" at the top of the browser page get moved around in the last day, perhaps when the icons for notifications got replaced? I keep hitting one when I mean the other, and it gets annoying. — Gorthian (talk) 06:47, 5 August 2016 (UTC)
 * No. -- Red rose64 (talk) 09:28, 5 August 2016 (UTC)
 * It looks moved to me; watchlist used to be closer to left. And those two dumb symbols for notices look different.--Smarkflea (talk) 16:16, 5 August 2016 (UTC)
 * The symbols have indeed changed, several times in recent weeks. See for instance Village pump (technical) above. But prefs was always left of watchlist: when I go to a foreign-language Wikipedia, I find the prefs link by looking for the first blue link to the right of my user name. So watchlist must have been further over to the right of prefs for as long as I've been using that technique (6+ years). -- Red rose64 (talk) 19:24, 5 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Perhaps they are in the same order, but the spacing is different, or "beta" is moved, or something. I edit on an iPad, and in the last day or so, I keep tapping the wrong one because it's more a matter of "feel" than anything. — Gorthian (talk) 03:33, 6 August 2016 (UTC)

Huggle first time use
This page says Note: If you have not used Huggle before, add the text enable:true to Special:MyPage/huggle.css on the project where you want to use Huggle. For example, if you are using Huggle on the English Wikipedia, go to en:Special:MyPage/huggle.css.

While trying to create that page User:Marvellous Spider-Man/huggle.css with "enable:true", an error warning showed, so I didn't create it.

I have not yet downloaded huggle. Should that page be created before downloading huggle?

After downloading huggle, what should I do?

--Marvellous Spider-Man (talk) 02:33, 6 August 2016 (UTC)
 * When I first used Huggle, I didn't create that page, the program just created the page itself. So unless Huggle actually doesn't work when you don't create that page, then I'd just download it anyway and use it.  Omni Flames ( talk ) 04:07, 6 August 2016 (UTC)


 * If the warning message was something like the one at MediaWiki:Usercssjsyoucanpreview, it can safely be ignored. A message like this is displayed whenever you view or edit a page with .js or .css at the end of its name. -- John of Reading (talk) 06:40, 6 August 2016 (UTC)

Please help me - family tree
I am trying to also separately draw a family tree in addition to the ancestry diagram which would include wives and children for Nelson Mandela similar to Template:Obama_family_tree. Part (talk) 21:42, 5 August 2016 (UTC)


 * You might want to look into the Chart template Template:Chart. Mduvekot (talk) 21:54, 5 August 2016 (UTC)


 * Thanks Mduvekot. Part (talk) 11:08, 6 August 2016 (UTC)

Firefox bug or just me?
Suddenly I cannot edit using Mozilla Firefox. All was well earlier today. When editing a talk page, all starts off well but after a few lines of typing the edited page goes blank (all coding disappears) and if I save it, I wind up saving a blank page. All was fine at 11:52 PDT, but by 12:46 PDT I could no longer edit. Did some coding change happen at noon PDT? I'm using Chrome to make this edit. Fyunck(click) (talk) 20:42, 4 August 2016 (UTC)
 * I can make this edit from Firefox. Monobook, if that matters. -- Edgars2007  (talk/contribs) 20:45, 4 August 2016 (UTC)
 * This sounds a little like something that happened to me earlier. On trying to add a new section with my notification icon problem above I found I could edit the title but not the content, i.e. this box where you write your content. Whether clicking on it or tabbing to it it behaved as if it were non-editable, non-selectable, and stayed blank. Reloading the page fixed it, and it has not happened since. Safari 9.1.2 here.-- JohnBlackburne words<sub style="margin-left:-2.0ex;">deeds 21:05, 4 August 2016 (UTC)
 * It was still dead for me after updating firefox from 42.0 to 43.01. But I have now gone to my wiki preferences and reset them to default. It's working now. One of those preferences must have a bug. Fyunck(click) (talk) 21:09, 4 August 2016 (UTC)
 * I re-added back what I believe was all my gadgets and back to monobook. It appears to still be working. Fyunck(click) (talk) 21:13, 4 August 2016 (UTC)


 * I am having this problem in Chrome and Edge. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kvng (talk • contribs) 23:26, 4 August 2016 (UTC)
 * me too, firefox and IE - had to enable wikiEd to make this edit. -- ℕ  ℱ  01:06, 5 August 2016 (UTC)
 * I just managed to reproduce this, on this page the same way, by hitting 'New Section'. I could type a title but not a message. tab seemed not to highlight it, would highlight nothing and then the next thing on hitting tab again. No error messages or other indications of a problem. I did “fix“ it without reloading though. Resizing the browser window caused it suddenly come to life, with the text I had typed in it suddenly visible. And then reloading the page and it behaved as normal.-- JohnBlackburne words<sub style="margin-left:-2.0ex;">deeds 01:15, 5 August 2016 (UTC)
 * I can blank all the pages code in the edit box just editing a page and moving the cursor to the edit summary box. Resizing the browser doesn't bring it back for me (at least not in Chrome). Thanks for the WikiEd tip; It doesn't seem to happen when using WikiEd. ~Kvng (talk) 02:56, 5 August 2016 (UTC)
 * I still think wikipedia did some update at 19:00 UTC that screwed with coding. Since I hit default under my preferences all is well. I first wrote down what I had them set at and have now set them back. I had to reset my time zone too. It looks like the icons on the top of the window have changed a little. Was the notice icon always that shape? Fyunck(click) (talk) 06:49, 5 August 2016 (UTC)
 * I don't know if it's the same problem but I tried to "undo" an edit on Workhouse and it blanked the page completely; I have now managed to fix it by restoring an earlier version. When I tried reporting it here, again it kept blanking the page (I never pressed "save"). That was using a Mac running the latest version of Firefox. I've changed to Safari and fingers crossed, this comment will work okay. Anyone know a way to fix it? SagaciousPhil  - Chat 09:51, 5 August 2016 (UTC)
 * The notes on Phabricator say that reloading or re-sizing can clear the problem but none of those have helped when I've tried them using Firefox; Safari does seem to be functioning okay for me though. SagaciousPhil  - Chat 11:20, 5 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Happened a third time to me in Safari. Another new section attempt on a page. This time I spend some time experimenting. First still no errors such as in the console, or in the HTML element explorer (though there is so much information there I would not know where to look). I did find a way to edit though: selecting from the heading menu would insert a heading. I could then edit this, but if I deleted it so the edit box was empty then nothing I typed after that appeared. The typed was there though. Right-clicking on the window would give me a popup menu which would let me Google the selected text. As before resizing returned things to normal.-- JohnBlackburne words<sub style="margin-left:-2.0ex;">deeds 15:44, 5 August 2016 (UTC)
 * One more observation, on it happening a fourth time. I tried the same experiment but paid a bit more attention. If I used e.g. the Heading menu I could insert a level 3 heading, as normal, and suddenly had editable text including anything I had input earlier. I could then delete this. As I deleted it the edit box was normal, until nothing was there. But if I hit 'backspace' one more time the editing bar disappeared and the box again stopped displaying whatever I typed. This was repeatable, until I again resized the window and the problem disappeared.-- JohnBlackburne words<sub style="margin-left:-2.0ex;">deeds 16:45, 5 August 2016 (UTC)


 * And I don’t know if this is related but twice the editor seems to have inserted a spurious character into my edit window, one I do not even know how to type. The first time I spotted it in preview and so fixed it but the second time I did not notice it until after posting, actually on this noticeboard. The edit is this one, the char is a diamond with a question mark which represents an unknown Unicode char. As far as I know it is impossible to type such a char; certainly no key combination on my Mac will do it.-- JohnBlackburne words<sub style="margin-left:-2.0ex;">deeds 16:53, 5 August 2016 (UTC)

I don't believe I had it checked when I originally posted this, but the problem re-occurred, or a similar one occurred, when I added the WikEd gadget. I couldn't post here without the page blanking. Upon removal of the gadget all was fine (since I am now posting this). Fyunck(click) (talk) 17:40, 5 August 2016 (UTC)


 * I'm having the same problem with Firefox. Clearing my browser cache didn't help.- MrX 20:06, 5 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Do you have the WikEd gadget enabled in preferences? —  xaosflux  Talk 21:54, 5 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Yes I do.- MrX 22:07, 5 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Can you verify if disabling that gadget fixes your issue? — xaosflux  Talk 22:11, 5 August 2016 (UTC)
 * - Yes, that is correct. Further, I duplicated the issue in IE, Chrome, and Safari (all Windows). The issue only occurs when WikEd is disabled in the editor window toolbar.- MrX 23:38, 5 August 2016 (UTC)


 * The phab ticket notes that this was likely a wiked problem the whole time, and it has been changed - would you try reactivating it and try to reproduce the problem again? Thank you! —  xaosflux  Talk 02:44, 6 August 2016 (UTC)
 * - I can no longer reproduce the problem so it does seem to be resolved.- MrX 11:51, 6 August 2016 (UTC)

Chrome deletes entire edit box when left-clicking the edit summary
This just started happening yesterday. In Chrome (my prefered browser), I've turned off all extensions and deleted my cache and auto-fill form data and the problem persists. Firefox, IE, and Opera don't have this problem.

Clicking the preview button also removes all edit box text.

I'm able to post this from Chrome (on Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit ) since there's no edit summary box to click in. Anyone know how to fix this? ~ Tom.Reding (talk ⋅dgaf) 15:18, 5 August 2016 (UTC)
 * - Just made this edit from Chrome - unable to reproduce your problem so far. — xaosflux  Talk 15:29, 5 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Can you verify if this is happening when you are logged out (don't save the edit if you don't want your IP posted) - to verify if it is one of your gadgets or local scripts/css's. — xaosflux  Talk 15:31, 5 August 2016 (UTC)
 * , great find! The problem exists only when logged in. I was logged in when I tested it in Firefox, IE, and Opera. After logging back in in Chrome, the problem still exists. What now?  ~ Tom.Reding (talk ⋅dgaf)  16:10, 5 August 2016 (UTC)
 * From a wild trouble shooting point of view - next step : is it something with your account (like a gadget/script/skin) - I haven't been able to get this to fail yet - but being able to identify that would be useful. If you want to experiment, create a new account and start adding settings until you can get it to fail (or report if it fails immediately on your new account). —  xaosflux  Talk 16:18, 5 August 2016 (UTC)
 * , WikiEd is the culprit! I'm editing now from Chrome with no apparent problems. If, in the same edit window which is not experiencing the problem, I then enable WikiEd, the problem presents itself.  ~ Tom.Reding (talk ⋅dgaf)  16:47, 5 August 2016 (UTC)
 * To be more precise, I need to have WikiEd disabled before I click the edit link. WikiEd enabled prior to clicking edit also presents the problem, even if I disable WikiEd after clicking edit.
 * Conversely, if I click edit with WikiEd off, then enable it, the problem then exists.
 * There is some talk in this section (above, before my original post) where users needed WikiEd enabled in order to edit, so there is likely a secondary problem somewhere, slightly exacerbating the first.  ~ Tom.Reding (talk ⋅dgaf)  16:58, 5 August 2016 (UTC)
 * I think this is the same issue as above at .-- JohnBlackburne words<sub style="margin-left:-2.0ex;">deeds 15:37, 5 August 2016 (UTC)


 * I've had similar problems since yesterday. In fact I can determine the time change fairly accurately. In Special:Contributions/Naraht, you can see a successful edit (the +176 to the Template for discussion page) at 15:14(EDT) on August 4. Every edit since then, including one 7 minutes later at 15:21 EDT) has either blanked a section or an article, *or* been a revert because what I was editing was wiped out. Note this was on Chrome only. I have no problem in IE)Naraht (talk) 16:38, 5 August 2016 (UTC)


 * I am experiencing the same issues. In fact, I had to employ a workaround (enabling WikEd) to even add this comment. As per User:Naraht's note above, if I change no text in the edit pane when editing, the entire page/content is blanked. If I have made a change (and for example click into the edit summary panel), only the text I changed is reverted/undone. If I enable WikEd, the issue does not occur. I can recreate this on Chrome, Firefox, and MS Edge. I cannot recreate this when signed-out on any browser. I have added a note on this issue to the corresponding Wikimedia bug report. https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T142137 Guliolopez (talk) 22:59, 5 August 2016 (UTC)
 * OK. I've managed to fix this for myself. WikEd was/is the issue. For me at least. I had WikEd turned on in preferences. But I do not actually use it. When WikEd was turned on in preference, but *not* turned on in the edit pane, it was causing the page to be blanked. When I turned-off WikEd entirely (by removing it as an enabled gadget in the my preferences, the issue no longer occurs. Something seems to have changed in WikEd (or an unrelated change affected WikEd). For other users experiencing this issue, I'd recommend disabling the WikEd gadget entirely in your pref settings. Will add a related note to https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T142137. Guliolopez (talk) 23:27, 5 August 2016 (UTC)

Range contrib tool
Can someone please unjam the range contrib tool and get it working again? --<b style="color:navy">Neil N </b> <i style="color:blue">talk to me</i> 03:29, 6 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Temporary workaround for the time being might be using the wildcard feature the user contrib page (e.g., Special:Contributions/197.168.*). Also accepts CIDR. Needs to be enabled under Preferences > Gadgets > Advanced. You can also do edits since a certain date by adding  where it's year, month, day, hour, minute, second format  Eve rgr een Fir  (talk) 04:28, 6 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Sorry about that, xTools has been having some problems staying up recently. We believe it's due to the tool labs watcher, and are working to fix that.  If it has problems again, feel free to poke me. ~  Matthewrbowker  Drop me a note 19:04, 6 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Thanks ., I have that gadget enabled and actually prefer the output but it only accepts certain CIDR notations. --<b style="color:navy">Neil N </b> <i style="color:blue">talk to me</i> 19:26, 6 August 2016 (UTC)

Article size and template limit
Hello. Is there a way to see/find the size (in bytes) of a particular wikipedia article/page? Which is the template limit for a chart (family tree} articles? I see that after a value the chart is not displaying properly anymore. --Daduxing (talk) 07:33, 7 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Greetings. You need to go into the HTML for the article and search for the text string . Beneath that string you can see a list of parameters (such as  ) that indicate how close a page is to the limit for the various parameters. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 08:04, 7 August 2016 (UTC)

Add a note to MediaWiki:Duplicate-args-warning to see User:Frietjes/findargdups?
For background see Teahouse/Questions.

The question is should we (and is it technically feasible to) add some kind of a short note to MediaWiki:Duplicate-args-warning so that the error warning message directs users to User:Frietjes/findargdups to assist them in fixing the flagged issue? If the answer was "yes", I wouldn't know how to do it so I'd leave the implementation to responders. The addition could be something like: " Installing the script User:Frietjes/findargdups to your common.js may assist you in finding the duplication error. "--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 15:29, 6 August 2016 (UTC)
 * That seems too long, IP's cannot install scripts, and User:Frietjes/findargdups doesn't give general help. I suggest adding a simple "(help)" to the end, linking to Category:Pages using duplicate arguments in template calls which appears to be the closest we have to a help page for the issue. The affected pages are in the category but it's hidden and will not be noticed by many users. The category links to User:Frietjes/findargdups so registered users with confidence to install scripts can still find it. PrimeHunter (talk) 19:38, 6 August 2016 (UTC)
 * I was the OP of the Teahouse question that refers to.  and § How to use are pretty clear, and I applied them without difficulty. Does that not count as general help, at least sufficient to the need? So something as short as "See User:Frietjes/findargdups to find the error" should do the trick. True that it doesn't help an IP user, but if  is willing to add a note at the very beginning of findargdups to the effect of "This will only work for registered users", we at least wouldn't be wasting their time (beyond an unavoidable minimum), and registered users would find this solution faster. Please  me to discuss. --Thnidu (talk) 20:18, 6 August 2016 (UTC)
 * I mean User:Frietjes/findargdups isn't a general help page for the problem with duplicate arguments. It only shows how to use a particular tool. Most editors will not bother to install a tool and learn to use it if they are only trying to fix one instance, and most instances don't have a huge number of parameters with the name like yours. PrimeHunter (talk) 21:18, 6 August 2016 (UTC)
 * We don't have a general help page for this problem. We should. – Finnusertop (talk ⋅ contribs) 21:26, 6 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Until one exists, referring people to the Category page instead of a user's page makes sense. As much as I love and admire, referring to a user's page in a MediaWiki help page looks amateurish. I wouldn't want a MW message to refer to anything in my user space, for example. – Jonesey95 (talk) 02:44, 7 August 2016 (UTC)
 * I have created Help:Duplicate parameters and linked it on "(Help)" in MediaWiki:Duplicate-args-warning. PrimeHunter (talk) 11:43, 7 August 2016 (UTC)

/doc on other Wikipedias
Does someone know how to define several values in order to have documentation subpages recognized as such on other Wikipedia, particularly sr.wiki (/док and /dok should have same effect as /doc).

Problem arose after translating /doc for module documentation subpages on TranslateWiki ( here ) because /doc was used instead of /док and if it is changed to /док – previously created module documentations get recognized by software as pure modules instead of normal Wikipedia page i.e. documentation subpage. --Obsuser (talk) 13:51, 7 August 2016 (UTC)

Email issue
Hi, Apologies if this is in the wrong place but not really sure where to ask,

Anyway I've got a notification saying I've got an email however looking through my inbox/spam/trash I haven't recieved any email, I had also got a notification a few months ago and had no email but assumed I accidentally deleted it or something, Thanks, – Davey 2010 Talk 13:14, 7 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Pardon the really basic question, but...are you absolutely sure that the email address you've just checked is the same email address as the one you've listed in Special:Preferences? Nyttend (talk) 13:29, 7 August 2016 (UTC)
 * This may be relate to an issue which keeps coming up - namely that some mail servers have been rejecting Wikipedia emails. See, for example, Village pump (technical)/Archive 148; Village pump (technical)/Archive 147; Village pump (technical)/Archive 146. עוד מישהו Od Mishehu 13:38, 7 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Hi - Yep 100% sure - My email hasn't changed since being here and looking at prefs it's still correct,
 * - Ahhh right well I'm with Yahoo so they're not being delivered now ... Oh lovely!, Okay well thanks to all for your help. – Davey 2010 Talk 14:03, 7 August 2016 (UTC)

Migration of watchlist notices into a Resource Loader module
Could someone take a look at MediaWiki talk:Common.js? Helder 18:00, 7 August 2016 (UTC)

templatetransclusioncheck
Does anyone know why http://tools.wmflabs.org/templatetransclusioncheck isn't working when other tools seem to be OK? JMHamo (talk) 21:07, 7 August 2016 (UTC)

Template:Convert
Template:Convert seemingly still converts feet to meters in the wrong way, to the lesser side. Per Foot (unit) and as further confirmed by sources, e.g. Merriam-Webster it equals 0.3048 m. 25,000 ft, for instance, currently yields 7,600 m, while per accepted definition of 0.3048 m it should be 7,620 m (meaning a significant 20 m deviation in this case). Is it fixable? Maybe other units in the template should also be checked for accuracy just in case. Brandmeistertalk  22:21, 2 August 2016 (UTC)
 * See Template:Convert "25,000 feet" will often be a rounded or approximate number where 7,620 m will give a false sense of precision. The real value might for example have been closer to 24,800 ft or 25,200 ft. You can request more precision when you want it.  gives 25,000 ft.   gives 1 ft, so the correct value is used. PrimeHunter (talk) 22:43, 2 August 2016 (UTC)
 * PrimeHunter has provided the key information but as a matter of interest, the last convert update included a trick. If a number like 25,000 is entered with a decimal point, the value is assumed to be accurate to ±0.5, but the decimal point is not displayed. That is the same as.
 * → 25,000. ft
 * Johnuniq (talk) 23:48, 2 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Johnuniq and Brandmeister, that's not an error or a trick; it's an ordinary aspect of significant figures, as you can see in that article's sentence beginning with "A decimal point may be placed". The period after the numerals is an ordinary way of representing the fact that you're talking about exactly twenty-five thousand feet.  Of course, this might still involve 25,000.1 feet, or 24,999.8 feet, but it still rounds to exactly 25,000 feet, so we can represent it with 25,000. feet.  This is a big difference from 25,000 feet, because 25,123 and 24,854 would both round to 25,000 if you're using a measurement scale precise only to 1,000 feet; the concluding decimal point indicates that it's a precise-to-the-foot number that merely happens coincidentally to be an exact multiple of one thousand.  Nyttend (talk) 13:03, 7 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Sure, but I had to change the code so it would not show the decimal point in the input—that was the trick. More in the June release notes under "Input number and significant figures". Johnuniq (talk) 01:57, 8 August 2016 (UTC)

Tech News: 2016-32
<section begin="technews-2016-W32"/> Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Recent changes
 * In notifications, the icon for has been changed from a speech-bubble icon (Echo chat icon.svg) to a tray icon (OOjs UI icon tray.svg) for consistency. The  icon has been redesigned too. The colors have been changed for accessibility.

Problems
 * If you use the wikEd gadget, changes you made were not kept when you switched from the wikitext editor to the visual editor while you were editing. This has now been fixed.

Changes this week
 * Wikimedia search will now ignore question marks at the end of the sentences or words you use when you search. Until now the question mark was just a wildcard.
 * On Commons, UploadWizard will now be available on mobile, rather than just the old upload form. This should reduce the workload for the community in reviewing images.
 * When you edit with the visual editor a puzzle symbol tells you there is an invisible template in the article. It will now mention the name of the template.
 * The button to read something in another language will move for mobile users. This will happen on 9 August.
 * When someone mentions you and links to your user page you get a notification. You will now get a notification when you mention yourself this way.
 * Octicons-sync.svg The new version of MediaWiki will be on test wikis and MediaWiki.org from 9 August. It will be on non-Wikipedia wikis and some Wikipedias from 10 August. It will be on all wikis from 11 August (calendar).
 * A message on Notifications panel will invite users to try Special:Notifications page.

Meetings
 * Octicons-sync.svg You can join the next meeting with the VisualEditor team. During the meeting, you can tell developers which bugs you think are the most important. The meeting will be on August 9 at 19:00 (UTC). See how to join.

Tech news prepared by tech ambassadors and posted by bot • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe. <section end="technews-2016-W32"/> 15:41, 8 August 2016 (UTC)

Pull up history as of a certain revision
Suppose I'm looking at a two year old version of a page (got there via a diff). Is there an easy way to pull up the history tab so that revision appears at the top (or, ideally, the middle) without manually mucking around with the offset parameter? --<b style="color:navy">Neil N </b> <i style="color:blue">talk to me</i> 13:40, 8 August 2016 (UTC)


 * Yes. Just give the "offset" as the UTC timestamp from whence to commence:  https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Village_pump_(technical)&offset=20140802023332&action=history   Note that if you have configured your preferences with a timezone other than UTC-0000, it will be offset by the time zone difference.   Centering it seems difficult because the number of items displayed is configurable, but also subject to the length of history.  —EncMstr (talk) 15:51, 8 August 2016 (UTC)


 * NeilN is asking if there’s an easier way than "manually mucking around with the offset parameter." - NQ (talk)  15:56, 8 August 2016 (UTC)
 * NQ has provided a script that does what I want. Thanks again NQ! --<b style="color:navy">Neil N </b> <i style="color:blue">talk to me</i> 03:14, 9 August 2016 (UTC)

MediaWiki:FileUploadWizard.js and MediaWiki:Licenses
Currently, both pages MediaWiki:FileUploadWizard.js and MediaWiki:Licenses (as well as File copyright tags and subpages) have each their own list of acceptable licenses - and lo and behold, their lists are fairly dissimilar. I wonder if someone with better .js and template code skillz than me could be able to create a Template:File copyright tags template that can be used on all three-plus pages. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 15:10, 9 August 2016 (UTC)

Question from
recently used a help me template to request help, but I replied that the question would be more suited here. They haven't asked here yet though, so I thought I would put their question here, so they may get a reply. "Please help me with... At some time in the last 6 weeks or so, drop down suggstions in the search box just stopped. I didn't disable it... I didn't even know it could be disabled. I'm using an android phone viewing desktop view. I've just tried disabling it, then re-enabling it, but to no avail. Any advice would be most appreciated. Cheers and thanks."

Thank you!  Seagull123  Φ  13:42, 5 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the report (and thanks to Moushira for forwarding it on to me). I managed to reproduce this problem on my device, and wrote T142521 to track the issue. Roan and I took a look, and we think we have a fix for it. Thanks! --Dan Garry, Wikimedia Foundation (talk) 20:23, 9 August 2016 (UTC)

Search result with inconsistent section link
I just searched for our article (turns out it doesn't exist) entitled Kyrgyzstan-Turkmenistan relations, and the first search result is for Outline of Kazakhstan with a link to (section Foreign relations of Kazakhstan). Note the difference between the URL and the displayed text. Why would the software display the text "Foreign relations" in the search result when it thinks that the section is really entitled "oreign relations"? I can imagine both being "oreign" if there had been recent vandalism or accidental deletion, but the big question is the discrepancy between displayed section title and URL section title. Nyttend (talk) 12:51, 7 August 2016 (UTC)
 * There is apparently a general bug where search omits the initial character in the anchor of the url for section links. The search gives me two examples: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logarithmic_integral_function#umber_theoretic_significance and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asymptotic_theory#xamples_of_asymptotic_expansions. PrimeHunter (talk) 13:18, 7 August 2016 (UTC)
 * This is T142297. PrimeHunter (talk) 19:42, 7 August 2016 (UTC)
 * This should be fixed now. Thanks for the report! --Dan Garry, Wikimedia Foundation (talk) 20:38, 9 August 2016 (UTC)

Need help with authority control at Douglas W. Schwartz
I'd like it to display the LCCN data, WorldcatVIAF but don't know how to do it. Thanks. Doug Weller talk 13:35, 7 August 2016 (UTC)
 * You can add them to Authority control as parameters or add them on Wikidata. I created Q26234752, so you're all set. —&thinsp;JJMC89&thinsp; (T·C) 18:23, 7 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Thanks and many apologies for not replying sooner. Very much appreciate. Doug Weller  talk 12:55, 10 August 2016 (UTC)

Is archive.is working for you?
I keep getting a page that just says "archive.today" if I go to http://www.archive.is/ ; if I go to https://www.archive.is/ it sends me to the former. But http://www.archive.today/ just sends me in a loop. This comes right on the heels of a long damaging ban on using the site here. I am getting suspicious that there is some kind of content that some powerful entity wants censored, quite possibly from Wikipedia itself, and they have been manipulating several different sites including this one but first I should find out if anyone else here presently has access, i.e. if I'm being blocked locally from it. I see nothing in a news search or in Archive.is about trouble. Wnt (talk) 20:37, 7 August 2016 (UTC)


 * This made me curious, so I tried https://www.archive.is/ and http://www.archive.today/, and both send me to https://archive.is, which looks normal. Have you tried clearing your cache? — Gorthian (talk) 21:12, 7 August 2016 (UTC)


 * Very curious. After testing for a while, I'm essentially seeing the same thing as Wnt, except that occasionally I'll refresh and get the actual website. It's possible they are undergoing some kind of maintenance or are updating their IP/URL structure. I'd say just be patient and I'd bet things will settle down and get back to normal. — Huntster (t @ c) 00:12, 8 August 2016 (UTC)
 * For what it's worth, it's working for me now. It did not work on the 8th and I believe also the 9th. Wnt (talk) 14:55, 10 August 2016 (UTC)

Language switcher showing languages under the wrong continents
The language switcher seems to be listing languages under the wrong continents. It lists Spanish under Africa, and Portuguese under Africa, Asia and the Pacific. (screenshot) Previously I've also seen it listing Dutch under America. nyuszika7h (talk) 18:19, 10 August 2016 (UTC)
 * They're listed under multiple continents, as they're used by countries on multiple continents. For example, Spanish is spoken in Equatorial Guinea, and Portuguese in Angola. Dutch is spoken in Suriname in South America. Matma Rex talk 21:48, 10 August 2016 (UTC)

Validating HTML of Special:Watchlist: No p element in scope but a p end tag seen
When I try to validatate the HTML of my watchlist page using https://validator.w3.org/nu/#textarea the following error appears: Error: No p element in scope but a p end tag seen. (It's just before the mw-watchlist-resetbutton)

Can anyone confirm that this error exists? Does anyone know what is the cause of that extra p tag? Dalba 00:41, 10 August 2016 (UTC)


 * It also happens for me with https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Watchlist?uselang=en (default English) but not https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Watchlist?uselang=en-ca (Canadian English). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Watchlist?uselang=qqx shows MediaWiki:Watchlist-details and MediaWiki:Wlheader-showupdated on the same line, and en-ca displays them on the same line. They are surrounded by on the rendered watchlist. Our customized MediaWiki:Wlheader-showupdated for en moves to a new line below MediaWiki:Watchlist-details, and something inserts a   after MediaWiki:Watchlist-details, presumably to close the   before it. This means the original   after MediaWiki:Wlheader-showupdated becomes unmatched. PrimeHunter (talk) 02:10, 10 August 2016 (UTC)

When comparing to other projects it is the extra lone closing p tag in the middle (on its own line) that doesn't belong: You have 9,999 pages on your <a href="/wiki/Help:Watchlist" title="Help:Watchlist">watchlist</a> (excluding <a href="/wiki/Help:Using_talk_pages" title="Help:Using talk pages">talk pages</a>).↩ ↩ Pages that have been changed since you last visited them are shown in bold with a green marker. ↩ <form method="post" action="/wiki/Special:Watchlist" id="mw-watchlist-resetbutton">↩
 * — xaosflux  Talk 03:48, 10 August 2016 (UTC)

This is because MediaWiki:Watchlist-details includes block tags ( and  ). Doing this implicitly closes the  tag that this message is wrapped in, and so the closing   no longer closes anything. The block tags should probably be moved to MediaWiki:Watchlist-summary. Matma Rex talk 21:42, 10 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Thank you that change does resolve this issue - need to discuss if this will cause any unexpected issues.  Follow up at MediaWiki talk:Watchlist-details. —  xaosflux  Talk 23:15, 10 August 2016 (UTC)

"edit on wikidata"
Today I noticed that all the inboxes have a new "[Edit on Wikidata] link at the bottom. Not only is it ugly, but useless - the information is being transcluded, so this is the master copy and I don't see why anyone would want to go to some other website to edit information that's already here. This needs to be turned off. Maury Markowitz (talk) 11:02, 11 August 2016 (UTC)
 * I couldn't find any. Can you give a link for some of those articles? --Stryn (talk) 11:08, 11 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Hrm, should have done that in my first post I suppose. Try Pharaoh's Curse (video game). Maury Markowitz (talk) 11:27, 11 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Yes, please see Template talk:Infobox video game and Template talk:Infobox video game. --Izno (talk) 11:29, 11 August 2016 (UTC)
 * (edit conflict) For something allegedly on all infoboxes it was surprisingly hard to find an example. I finally found one right before you posted it. Infobox video game recently added code to make the link.[//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Infobox_video_game&diff=733533269&oldid=700456747] Wikidata does not transclude data from Wikipedia, although bots may copy data from Wikipedia to Wikidata. It's possible for articles to pull data from Wikidata, for example with Module:Wikidata. Some infoboxes like Infobox video game do this so it makes sense to have an edit link for the Wikidata entry. PrimeHunter (talk) 11:39, 11 August 2016 (UTC)

Reading over the discussion of the topic, which was held entirely in that backwater page with a total of four or five people, they went ahead and made this change after only five days of discussion and no attempt whatsoever to inform anyone else this was going to take place. It's a terrible idea that adds absolutely no value to this project, and I would argue, any. Maury Markowitz (talk) 12:12, 11 August 2016 (UTC)
 * they went ahead and made this change after only five days of discussion and no attempt whatsoever to inform anyone else this was going to take place is categorically untrue. WT:VG, the set of editors most interested in video games, was notified multiple times. As for terrible idea that adds absolutely no value to this project, no, also categorically untrue. --Izno (talk) 12:18, 11 August 2016 (UTC)
 * In fact, here's how long ago they were notified that it was going to happen: Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Video_games/Archive_100. That's 2013. --Izno (talk) 12:22, 11 August 2016 (UTC)
 * I have now reverted the addition of the link in Template:Infobox video game, per the above. GeoffreyT2000 (talk) 17:29, 11 August 2016 (UTC)

While I disagree with Maury Markowitz on this (We are following the convention that other Wikidata-enabled infoboxes use), I have removed the "Edit on Wikidata" link for the time being. -- ferret (talk) 17:40, 11 August 2016 (UTC)

The consensus for adding the ability to fetch data from Wikidata was established at Requests for comment/Wikidata Phase 2: "It is appropriate to modify existing infoboxes to permit Wikidata inclusion when there is no existing English Wikipedia data for a specific field in the infobox (option 4 of the first question). There is sufficient support for option 3 however, to indicate that this modification should be done carefully and deliberately, at least at first." Over the last three years, many infoboxes have become "Wikidata-aware", see Category:Templates using data from Wikidata for examples. The proper place to seek consensus for a change to an infobox template is on the talk page of the template - where else is more appropriate? This was indeed what was done on Template talk:Infobox video game with notification to WP:WikiProject Video games. The most recent discussion (8 August) there is at WT:WikiProject Video games and guidelines have been published (13 July) at WikiProject Video games/Wikidata. This is not an issue for VPT; it is forum-shopping to fragment a discussion and should be discussed at Template talk:Infobox video game where I'm happy to comment further if required. --RexxS (talk) 18:38, 11 August 2016 (UTC)

Special:Contributions timing out
Special:Contributions searches for a specified namespace are timing out, with an "lost connection to SQL database server" error. I've tried my own and another editor's contributions, and two different namespaces (Wikipedia:" and "Help:"). Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 16:17, 12 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Working OK now Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 16:19, 12 August 2016 (UTC)
 * This happens sometimes when you make complex queries, I've noticed. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 16:25, 12 August 2016 (UTC)

For the record, the error message (I didn't realise I still had it) was:

"A database query error has occurred. This may indicate a bug in the software.

Function: IndexPager::buildQueryInfo (contributions page filtered for namespace or RevisionDeleted edits)

Error: 2013 Lost connection to MySQL server during query (10.64.32.25)"

-- Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 16:44, 12 August 2016 (UTC)

Login length being extended on Tuesday
I have good news: A few years ago, the login length was reduced from 180 days (on most WMF projects) to just 30 days. From my POV, this means 12 opportunities to accidentally get logged out mid-edit per year.

This is finally being extended! The next time you login, if you choose the option to stay logged in, you'll be logged in for a full year. This has been requested for more than two years and is finally ready to go. There is some more information at mw:"Keep me logged in" extended to one year. A few quick highlights:


 * This has been scheduled for Tuesday, 16 August at 15:00 UTC (8:00 a.m. PDT).
 * No, this shouldn't log you out on Tuesday. Your current 30-day session has to expire first.
 * No, if you keep getting logged out sooner than 30 days, this won't (directly) solve your problem.

If you have other questions, please feel free to ping me. Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 19:25, 12 August 2016 (UTC)

Revert not working
I have tried three times to revert Frank Rogers (record producer) to an earlier draft that had sources and less POV. Even though the revert has gone through each time, it does not show up in the page or in the edit history. And if I try to edit the page after that, it displays the old version in the edit field. What's going on here? A glitch in the Matrix? Ten Pound Hammer • (What did I screw up now?) 21:58, 12 August 2016 (UTC)
 * I am seeing your revert, both on the page and in the history. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 22:19, 12 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Special:Contributions/TenPoundHammer shows the revert was saved after the post here. The "filter log" at top of contributions shows the earlier attempts were disallowed by filter 783 because the version used Persondata. PrimeHunter (talk) 22:51, 12 August 2016 (UTC)

Auto-stripping redlinks from a file
The Outline of the Marshall Islands has a lot of redlinks in it.

I've got the html page source in one file, and the wikisource in another.

Using the redlink info from the page source file, I'd like to delete the redlinked entries (the whole line for each) out of the wikisource file.

The approach I'm about to take is to load the redlinks into an array, and then do a regex search/replace (to null) in the wikisource file for each array element.

Is there an easier way to identify and delete a line with a redlink on it?

If so, what is it? The Transhumanist 03:02, 12 August 2016 (UTC)

P.S.: I'm using perl, in case it helps to know.


 * I question the premise that redlinks should be eliminated wholesale, per Red link. I also question that they should be eliminated by removing the line rather than simply de-linking. &#8213; Mandruss  &#9742;  03:16, 12 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Actually, the outline above is just a test page. What the program would be for is for stripping redlinks from a brand new outline draft made from a template, where most of the redlinks are irrelevant.  Let's say the template used has every likely link that could exist for a city.  Ninety percent of them would be red for any particular city.  So you strip them out so you only have the remaining 10% that exist on WP for that city. All this would be done before the outline went live in article space. But I'd like to find the most efficient way to identify redlinks. Slurping and scraping are rather inefficient, I'm told. The Transhumanist 03:43, 12 August 2016 (UTC)
 * (Pings don't work when you add them to an existing post, but I saw your comment anyway.) 'Fraid I can't be of much help. I'd just do it the slower, low-tech way myself, even if I was aware of such a tool. &#8213; Mandruss  &#9742;  03:46, 12 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Even when you refresh the signature (and date/time stamp)? The Transhumanist 03:53, 12 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Apparently not, as I didn't receive this ping. &#8213; Mandruss  &#9742;  04:05, 12 August 2016 (UTC)
 * All you did in was add  and alter one figure. There was no new signature, and more importantly, it wasn't a new post. See WP:Echo and many threads in the archives of this page and of WT:Echo. I'm gonna write a user talk page template about that someday. -- Red rose64 (talk) 09:43, 12 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Ping requires a link to User page or User_talk or User_contributions, a signature, it must diff as + text (not +/- text), it deliberately fails if it would generate more than 50 pings, and the new text must be within a single section or start a new section. The fact that it needs to diff as + text is generally the problem. You can't add a ping to an existing comment, and you can't fix an incorrect name in an existing comment. Alsee (talk) 13:02, 12 August 2016 (UTC)
 * What about a separate (signed) ping inserted one line before the comment. Would that work? The Transhumanist 18:40, 12 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Yes, as this post should demonstrate. -- Red rose64 (talk) 20:44, 12 August 2016 (UTC)
 * That sort of edit diffs as + text, so yes. If you aren't sure you can just click Show Changes and see if your edit diffs as + added text or as +/- modified text. Added text works, modified text doesn't. Alsee (talk) 22:55, 12 August 2016 (UTC)
 * A link to User_talk or User_contributions won't work, unless there is a link to the user page as well. It is the link to the user page that is essential. So Alsee shouldn't be notified by this post, even though there are links to their talk and their contribs. -- Red rose64 (talk) 20:42, 12 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Thanx for (not) notifying me! LOL. You're right, it didn't work. I got my wrong information from the WMF's documentation MW:Manual:Echo. Silly me. I don't know if it's a bug or if the docs are wrong, but I'll open a Phab item to get one of them fixed. Alsee (talk) 23:16, 12 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Scratch that. I figured it out. The docs say that your signature must contain a link to your user page, your talk page, or your contribs. It's on a sub-bullet point, and I didn't make the mental connection parent bullet point. Alsee (talk) 23:26, 12 August 2016 (UTC)
 * I think I got it. All my pings should work from now on. Now, about those redlinks... 22:58, 12 August 2016 (UTC)

What about redlinks?
Is there an easier way for a program to identify redlinks? The Transhumanist 18:34, 12 August 2016 (UTC)

Revdel failing
A database query error has occurred. This may indicate a bug in the software.
 * Function: RevDelRevisionList::doQuery
 * Error: 2013 Lost connection to MySQL server during query (10.64.32.27)

--<b style="color:navy">Neil N </b> <i style="color:blue">talk to me</i> 23:26, 12 August 2016 (UTC)
 * :  - is this only on a specific page? —  xaosflux  Talk 23:33, 12 August 2016 (UTC)
 * It's working again now. --<b style="color:navy">Neil N </b> <i style="color:blue">talk to me</i> 00:19, 13 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Probably T104313. — This, that and the other (talk) 04:17, 13 August 2016 (UTC)

Nook Tablet browser hanging
Where do I go to find out whether Wikipedia (or its ISP) has changed anything, especially anything to do with what SSL certificate it serves, or whether it supports OCSP?

When I try to use Wikipedia with the browser on my Nook Tablet, the page never finishes loading. A page is displayed, but the browser indicates that it is still loading. Disabling Javascript doesn't help.

I noticed the problem last night (Wednesday, 10 August 2016). When I went to a real computer to check, I found that Firefox refused to display anything, complaining that the OCSP response had a time that was in the future. Today, I was about to check things related to my system time and Firefox's options, but Firefox works fine now.

The Nook Tablet browser (and the Dolphin browser) still never finish loading a page. I have rebooted the tablet. I have reset the browser to defaults. Nothing helps. It is not possible to update the browser. It is not possible to get another browser (other than Dolphin) on the Nook Tablet.

I believe it would help if I could access Wikipedia without using a secure connection, but that does not seem to be an option: If I go out of my way to request "http:Wikipedia", I get redirected to "https:Wikipedia".

Today (Saturday, 13 August 2016) I was able to view a few pages: Each time I reboot the tablet, I seem to get one chance to load a Wikipedia page. I can see that page, but after that I'm locked up -- clicking on a link does nothing. If that first page is the login page, I can log in, although I don't always get the "You're logged in" page. If I check the box for "Keep me logged in", then subsequent attempts (after again rebooting the tablet) show me Wikipedia pages. If I log out, and return to the page, it still shows me logged in. If I refresh the page in the browser, I'm locked up again.
 * UPDATE? *

From a real computer I see that the default image has gone back to SVG, with an oddly formed URL (no leading "http" or "https", completely different domain). When I'm logged in, I get PNG images, as per my Preference setting. When I had a problem seeing formulas, I think it ended with formulas being visible whether I was logged in or not, so at that time the default must NOT have been SVG. I wonder if this change to the default formula fallback image is related to my inability to view Wikipedia pages unless I am already logged in.

When not logged in, the formula fallback image is src="https://wikimedia.org/api/rest_v1/media/math/render/svg/1083e5691d2b959d103e2a6c3a9585a1b25b0438"

When logged in it is src="//upload.wikimedia.org/math/b/e/0/be0bd5b59ed09618db939d03dbd6b22f.png"

Jmichael ll (talk) 01:26, 14 August 2016 (UTC)

Crowded text
My vision is in decline, therefore, I enlarge text for increased readability using ctrl - shift - +. A problem arises if an article has an infobox. If it does, the width of the infobox increases as the text inside it enlarges; detracting from the readability of a page instead of improving it. The infobox crowds the text more on some pages than it does at others, but, as I've encountered it, the problem is widespread. Is there a way this can be mitigated?--John Cline (talk) 18:01, 13 August 2016 (UTC)
 * You can hide infoboxes, or change the way they are displayed, by creating a User:your_username/common.css and setting the display of the class of element that makes up an infox to display:none, like this:
 * .infobox {display:none; } If you wanted to keep the infobox, but not have it to the right of the article, you could turn off float:right, like this
 * .infobox {float:none !important; }
 * Mduvekot (talk) 19:03, 13 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Thank you Mduvekot; that looks and sounds like it will be a big help. Is there a way I can set a scroll-able overflow point this way, as well?--John Cline (talk) 19:31, 13 August 2016 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure how you would use overflow, do you have an example? Mduvekot (talk) 19:55, 13 August 2016 (UTC)
 * If it is possible for a css configuration to render a page with an infobox like the html example below demonstrates, that would be great. It cancels the float:right attribute and sets a vertical scroll bar at 300px; ensuring the lead text is readily in sight.

- <div style="height:300px;width:700px;border:solid 2px transparent;overflow:scroll;overflow-x:hidden;overflow-y:scroll;">

<p style="height:.5px;">

Lore Mip Sum (December 12, 1948 – April 8, 2009) best know as Lorem is a

-


 * If it's not possible, or to difficult, I will be fine with what I've already been shown. Thanks for considering my follow-on request, and for the initial help, already given. Best regards.--John Cline (talk) 05:09, 14 August 2016 (UTC)


 * I was experimenting with some mobile styling for Vector last year, that would do exactly that.. See the -block on User:TheDJ/vector.css. I had wanted to apply it more widely but well, i don't have much  time to invest in making changes happen. You can adapt the max-width value to set the point at which it takes effect. —Th e DJ (talk • contribs) 11:23, 14 August 2016 (UTC)

Strange notifications
I keep getting notifications that "I have mentioned myself on X's talkpage". It's happened 3 times in the last hour after I've used automated tools (Twinkle & the AFC helper script) to post messages to user talkpages. I'm using Windows 10 computer, with Chrome 52. Is this a new type of notification, and if so, what's the point of it? <b style="color:#CCCC00">Joseph</b><b style="color:#00FF00">2302</b> 21:26, 11 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Look above at the Tech News 2016-32 section. But what is the point? Graeme Bartlett (talk) 21:48, 11 August 2016 (UTC)
 * That's irritating. Why would I possibly want to be notified that I mentioned myself? clpo13(talk) 21:51, 11 August 2016 (UTC)
 * This is utterly absurd. I am a Huggle user and am getting notified incessantly. Is there an opt-out? FoCuS contribs ;  talk to me!  21:55, 11 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Not only is it useless and annoying, the original rationale appears to be narcissism, see the linked Phab ticket in Tech news. Nthep (talk) 21:57, 11 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Agreed. Constant notifications from Twinkle now. A truly useless and annoying feature. -- ferret (talk) 22:08, 11 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Dumb, dumb, dumb. --<b style="color:navy">Neil N </b> <i style="color:blue">talk to me</i> 22:50, 11 August 2016 (UTC)
 * So having just welcomed 2 new users I've got 2 notifications telling me "You mentioned yourself on X" - This is an absolutely stupid idea and who ever even thought of it deserves indeffing!, We have templates that provide pings sufficiently so this is just useless and utterly pointless, Please revert it back for the love of Christ. – Davey 2010 Talk 23:01, 11 August 2016 (UTC)
 * It's at Tech News above and is phab:T138080. A complete SNAFU that requires an immediate fix. I manually addded uw-test1 at User talk:51.39.137.78 and got that stupid notification. One messy fix would be to patch all of the warning templates (a lot!) to remove the self-reference, or to use that ugly no-notify hack. Johnuniq (talk) 00:28, 12 August 2016 (UTC)

They're working on turning it off, now, instead of waiting for the TCB to start work on their Friday morning. (This is a subcomponent of WMDE Technical Wishes/Mention Failure Notifications). Quiddity (WMF) (talk) 01:40, 12 August 2016 (UTC)
 * It's off now. Quiddity (WMF) (talk) 02:57, 12 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Thanks - Your help is extremely appreciated :), – Davey 2010 Talk 12:50, 12 August 2016 (UTC)

I fail to see the usefulness of this feature. Is this downright egotism? Perhaps I shall have a magnificent painting of myself hung at the foot of my bed so I wake up to my extravagant glory every morning. — k6ka  <span title="Canadian!" style="color:red">🍁 ( Talk ·  Contributions ) 02:25, 12 August 2016 (UTC)
 * While I absolutely love massaging my ego by hearing my name as much as possible, I hope this is fixed soon. It makes any kind of templated messages annoying to post and swamps my notifications bar. I would not object to a defcon siren sounding whenever my name is mentioned, though. GABgab 02:52, 12 August 2016 (UTC)
 * K6ka, as linked above, it's a part of the work to help editors understand when their Mention pings have been successful and when they've failed; further details at that page. I'm not sure if they use templates that link  on Dewiki, (an odd practice), which might explain why this edge-case wasn't discovered earlier. Quiddity (WMF) (talk) 02:57, 12 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Quiddity (WMF), I would argue mentioning yourself is the edge case, not adding templates to talk pages :-) --<b style="color:navy">Neil N </b> <i style="color:blue">talk to me</i> 03:05, 12 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Hi there, I'm Lea, the product manager of the TCB team who introduced the new feature. First of all, I apologize for the inconveniences caused. We overlooked the template case when testing the new feature, which is something that should not have happened. We will definitely not turn on this feature again, unless this issue is solved. As to the reasons why we decided to build the self-mentioning feature in the first place: Currently, the rules for sending out mentions are complicated and difficult to understand. Therefore on the German-speaking community wishlist people wished for a possibility to be notified whenever you sent out a mention. This would allow them to be sure that a mention has really been sent. In the process of working on this wish, we decided to also offer explanations whenever mentions could not be sent (both of them as opt-in features). Furthermore, some rules that make the process overly complicated, are in the process of being removed. One of them is the self mentioning. Logically, if I was trying to mention myself (for example for testing if the mentions were indeed sent out), it would be confusing that I never receive a mention. What would be the objective of having a software that does not allow users to do whatever they want (may it be narcistic or not)? Of course, this feature was not intended to fire off whenever you use a template, which makes it useless for the moment. So sorry again about that! --Lea Voget (WMDE) (talk) 13:10, 12 August 2016 (UTC)
 * I don't mean to pile on, but with all the things that really need fixing, I'm appalled that programmer time was wasted on this nonsense. Thank you,, for seeing about getting this change rolled back. ​—DoRD (talk)​ 13:56, 12 August 2016 (UTC)
 * You mean reducing the complexity of mentioning and giving more insight into why some mentions work, and others don't ? Yeah, seems like a real waste of programer time. Or do you mean the small piece of time that was spent on making a small change that had some unforeseen consequences and was swiftly corrected... —Th e DJ (talk • contribs) 11:41, 14 August 2016 (UTC)

Analog Clocks
<Till now we have all been impressed with User:Anakin101/digiclock developed by and have transcluded it a lot. But did we know that analog clock templates - User:Shardsofmetal/Clock and User:Ais523/Sandbox/ClockUTC existed on Wikipedia. Can someone make them look better like this or. The current template doesnt look good and can be improved I believe. Can someone who codes help me.  Varun FEB2003   I am Offline 13:26, 13 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Withdrawn  Varun FEB2003   I am Online 14:19, 14 August 2016 (UTC)

Nested templates are glitching, can't find the reason.
I recently closed a TFD but the resulting nesting of flatlist inside of collapsetop/collapsebottom resulted in the text after flatlist showing up above the collapse box. I ended up changing it to an hlist just to make the page visually appropriate, but what's causing the issue? I've looked into the code on each template, as well as attempt to reproduce it, but can't seem to find a reason. Please ping me on reply. Primefac (talk) 03:05, 14 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Note, this is somewhat of a crosspost from User talk:Evad37/TFDcloser.js. Primefac (talk) 03:16, 14 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Primefac this seems to be related to the ** list element at the top of User:Pigsonthewing's comment. All the best: Rich Farmbrough, 12:21, 14 August 2016 (UTC).


 * Simplest expression of the bug I can create is:

Which renders as:


 * Perhaps the CSS is the place to look.
 * All the best: Rich Farmbrough, 12:40, 14 August 2016 (UTC).

so the line "After flatlist" is being ejected out of the table before the page is served. We can demonstrate that by writing it entirely in HTML, using no CSS at all. Here are four ways of writing it: These render as
 * It's nothing to do with CSS. The emitted HTML is
 * So the problem only occurs when there are newlines at start and end of the text "flatlist text 1". I suspect HTMLTidy. -- Red rose64 (talk) 17:17, 14 August 2016 (UTC)

Edit history bug?
The last edit made on the Ulysses S. Grant article with my Username attached to it was not made by me!. Can someone look into this and check the IP address of this last edit and compare it to the IP address/edits made by me just before this? Also, can someone check to see if my username was actually logged in when that edit was made? I was at the public library about a week ago and and logged in and made some edits, just so this is known. I've changed my password and will not be making any edits in the Grant article until this matter has been resolved. -- Gwillhickers (talk) 19:08, 14 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Besides changing your password (which is a good idea in any case), you should explicitly log out and log in again. Logging out will invalidate any cookies that have your login name in them, whatever machine they're stored on. Looking at the databases to ascertain the IP address is a WP:CHECK matter, not VPT. -- Red rose64 (talk) 19:55, 14 August 2016 (UTC)

XTools works again, maybe
After a long absence, the XTools line at the top of each article, seems to work. e.g.,
 * 5,389 Revisions (+22 days), 1,792 Authors, 787 Page watchers, – Pageviews (30 days), Created by: 0 (deadlink) · See full page statistics

--Ancheta Wis   (talk  &#124; contribs) 13:08, 12 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Indeed, see T136482 . Thanks to Alfa80 for the fix, and MusikAnimal for implementing it. If there's problem, feel free to let us know. ~  Matthewrbowker  Drop me a note 02:41, 15 August 2016 (UTC)

Edit I made shows in History as having been made by a different editor
I just made this edit to the page L'Été sans bras and was surprised to see that my edit shows in the page history as having been made by someone else:
 * 02:25, 14 August 2016‎ Scoopfinder (talk | contribs)‎ m . . (3,404 bytes) (+1)‎ . . (201 -> 2015) (undo | thank)

This is most bizarre, as I am definitely logged in as Hebrides, and have never encountered User Scoopfinder before this morning. I am wondering if this could be a bug related to the Notices code, since the following steps preceded this strange occurrence:
 * 1) On August 1, 2016, I edited the page L'Été sans bras
 * 2) This morning I found an entry on my Notices, saying "Scoopfinder thanked you for your edit on L'Été sans bras."
 * 3) I clicked on the Notices entry to open the page
 * 4) I noticed another error in the page (the year 201 should have been 2015) so clicked the Edit tab at the top of the screen
 * 5) I checked what the year should be, using one of the references in the article
 * 6) I changed 201 to 2015, added the edit summary "201 → 2015", previewed and then saved the page
 * 7) I checked my Contributions page, and the edit did not appear; I then checked the page history and found that my edit had been attributed to Scoopfinder

I hope this will enable you to track down and correct this bug in the system. Best regards, —Hebrides (talk) 08:20, 14 August 2016 (UTC)
 * It's possible that by coincidence you and Scoopfinder were editing the page at the same time to remove the second error. If Scoopfinder saved first, they got the edit attributed to them, and when you saved the same edit it was effectively a null edit and therefore not recorded in the history. BethNaught (talk) 08:37, 14 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Yes, the situation described by BethNaught has happened to me several times. When I've checked the recent contribs of the other party, they've usually been working in the same area (such as typo fixing) as myself. -- Red rose64 (talk) 10:00, 14 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Scoopfinder thanked you at 02:24 and made the edit at 02:25. Considering the thanks made you look at the article right away and it was a very obvious error in a brief article, it's not a big coincidence that you made the same edit at the same time. It's a little confusing that users get no indication they made a null edit. It has also happened to me. PrimeHunter (talk) 11:39, 14 August 2016 (UTC)

Thank you all for your replies. I agree that your explanations are the likely scenario. Two further considerations reinforce this: Thank you all. –Hebrides (talk) 12:36, 14 August 2016 (UTC)
 * when I clicked the Notices entry, it must have shown my earlier edit that Scoopfinder was thanking me for; this could already have been an old version of the page without my realising
 * with regard to what turns out to be my null edit, I've examined it a little more closely, and now I notice a subtle difference between the Edit summary I typed (201 → 2015) and the Edit summary shown in the History (201 -> 2015) typed by Scoopfinder.
 * I can confirm that I did this edit directly after thanking you. :-) --Scoopfinder (talk) 20:14, 14 August 2016 (UTC)

thanks! Mystery solved. —Hebrides (talk) 05:39, 15 August 2016 (UTC)

Tech News: 2016-33
<section begin="technews-2016-W33"/> Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Problems
 * Last week Tech News announced you will get a notification when you mention yourself the same way as if someone else had mentioned you. This caused some problems and will happen later instead.
 * Creating and editing links to sections on other pages on the wiki now works again in the visual editor.
 * For some users, cross-wiki notifications haven't been working properly. The count has been wrong when only cross-wiki notifications were present. The cross-wiki bundle has been showing only the names of wikis and not the actual notifications. This will be fixed soon.

Changes this week
 * The login session when you choose "Keep me logged in" will now last a year. Previously it was 30 days. This will happen on August 16.
 * Some abuse filters will have to be updated during the week. This is because a bug will be fixed.
 * In compact language links, two new kinds of languages will be shown in the shorter language list: Languages that are used in the article's text, and languages where the article has a badge like "featured article" or "good article".
 * The visual editor will be available by default for logged-out editors on Wikipedias that use the Arabic script. It is already default for logged-in editors.
 * Octicons-sync.svg The new version of MediaWiki will be on test wikis and MediaWiki.org from August 16. It will be on non-Wikipedia wikis and some Wikipedias from August 17. It will be on all wikis from August 18 (calendar).

Meetings
 * Octicons-sync.svg You can join the next meeting with the VisualEditor team. During the meeting, you can tell developers which bugs you think are the most important. The meeting will be on August 16 at 19:00 (UTC). See how to join.

Future changes
 * Starting the week of August 22 there will be three software deployment windows. They will be at 13:00, 18:00, and 23:00 UTC. This is to have more times when software of the wikis can be updated and make it easier for developers in different parts of the world.

Tech news prepared by tech ambassadors and posted by bot • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe. <section end="technews-2016-W33"/> 19:37, 15 August 2016 (UTC)

Save/Publish
The Editing team is planning to change the name of the “ ” button to “  ” and “  ”. “ ” will be used when you create a new page. “ ” will be used when you change an existing page. The names will be consistent in all editing environments.

This change will probably happen during the week of 30 August 2016. The change will be announced in Tech News when it happens.

If you are fluent in a language other than English, please check the status of translations at translatewiki.net for “ ” and “  ”.

The main reason for this change is to avoid confusion for new editors. Repeated user research studies with new editors have shown that some new editors believed that “ ” would save a private copy of a new page in their accounts, rather than permanently publishing their changes on the web. It is important for this part of the user interface to be clear, since it is difficult to remove public information after it is published. We believe that the confusion caused by the “ ” button increases the workload for experienced editors, who have to clean up the information that people unintentionally disclose, and report it to the functionaries and stewards to suppress it. Clarifying what the button does will reduce this problem.

Beyond that, the goal is to make all the wikis and languages more consistent, and some wikis made this change many years ago. The Legal team at the Wikimedia Foundation supports this change. Making the edit interface easier to understand will make it easier to handle licensing and privacy questions that may arise.

Any help pages or other basic documentation about how to edit pages will also need to be updated, on-wiki and elsewhere. On wiki pages, you can use the wikitext codes  and   to display the new labels in the user's preferred language. For the language settings in your account preferences, these wikitext codes produce “ ” and “  ”.

Please share this news with community members who teach new editors and with others who may be interested. Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 18:02, 9 August 2016 (UTC)


 * Previous discussion: April/May and July. BethNaught (talk) 18:08, 9 August 2016 (UTC)
 * This would be a very ill-advised move in the Draft namespace. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 16:39, 10 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Likewise for people who draft articles in their sandboxes, prior to publishing them. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 16:41, 10 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Why do you think so? Putting something in your sandbox or draftspace is publication.  Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 17:12, 10 August 2016 (UTC)
 * [Replying to a comment I moved here from my talk page] because the process of moving a page from those places to article space has long been called "publishing". Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 17:27, 10 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Jdforrester already rejected this argument at T131132—this is apparently definitely going ahead now. Of course, the relevant interface messages are locally overridable. BethNaught (talk) 17:34, 10 August 2016 (UTC)
 * WMF making a decision in Phabricator, before discussion on projects? What could possibly go wrong (c/f visual editor, media viewer, super-protect...) Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 12:41, 12 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Exactly how common is that phrase? I'm certain that I've never called moving a page "publishing" it.  I always call it "moving a page", usually with a link to WP:MOVE in case the editor needs the instructions.  I suspect that's what nearly all experienced editors say, too.  I don't think I've ever seen anyone say something like "I published that article yesterday" (Google gives me exactly zero hits on "I published that article"), whereas statements that use language like, "I moved that page to the mainspace yesterday" are fairly common.  Perhaps some other editors would like to chime in:  If you're telling other editors that you've moved a page our of your sandbox, do you tell them that you've "published" it, or do you say something else? If it's merely a matter of some help pages, then we can probably find more accurate and practical language for those pages.  Also, as a mental exercise, I recommend reading Publication and thinking about whether you think you could make a convincing argument that posting something in your userspace shouldn't be counted as "publication".  WhatamIdoing (talk) 17:46, 10 August 2016 (UTC)
 * It's pretty common when moving a draft into mainspace. Examples: WikiProject Articles for creation/Reviewing instructions : "Article submissions that are likely to survive an AfD nomination should be accepted and published to mainspace."; WikiProject Articles for creation/Reviewing instructions : "2. Click Accept and publish to mainspace." I would think there will a lot of room for confusion if 'saving' a page is going to be called 'publishing'. --RexxS (talk) 20:16, 10 August 2016 (UTC)
 * I think we can probably fix the AFC directions. (And that reminds me:  I recently ran across an AFC volunteer who was telling editors that non-independent sources, e.g., an "About our staff" webpage used to support the name of a CEO, were never permitted on Wikipedia.  I should follow up to see whether he understood the message that I left him.)  WhatamIdoing (talk) 20:39, 10 August 2016 (UTC)
 * I would not be at all surprised to see any such "fix" to be reverted. You can't edit words out of common usage. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 12:41, 12 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Don't fix what isn't broken - The current way is sufficient and if newbies are confused then perhaps they should read the definition of "Save page" before using the site, We were all newbies once and most if not all of us understood what Save page meant so personally I see no point to this whatsoever. – Davey 2010 Talk 20:48, 10 August 2016 (UTC)
 * And before anyone wants to assert the current labels are broken, can they please first link to some documentary evidence rather than simply asserting it exists. BethNaught (talk) 20:51, 10 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Prior discussion regarding evidence here. Opabinia regalis (talk) 20:55, 10 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Opabinia regalis, as a scientist, I'm sure you'll understand why I'm not going to believe the conclusions someone has made from a study if they don't publish their data (even if it is only interview transcripts). BethNaught (talk) 21:02, 10 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Oh, I completely agree; the claims about new-user confusion are just claims without, erm, publishing the evidence. But I suspect that the key bit isn't so much the UI data, but the phrase "Publish" is a legally significant term. Opabinia regalis (talk) 22:27, 10 August 2016 (UTC)
 * In which case, it would be nice to see the Legal team's opinion which makes this change allegedly so important legally. BethNaught (talk) 12:35, 11 August 2016 (UTC)
 * I'd be interested in the actual results of the study, partly for peer review purposes partly because what BethNaught says. Overall I think the label of the save button is probably one of these minor things that don't matter much - how many people do pay attention to the exact text anyway - so mu as for my opinion the proposed change.Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 21:07, 10 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Couldn't the 'Save page' be retained for Draft and Sandbox space? Akld guy (talk) 21:34, 10 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Do you have any particular reason for suggesting this? Saving anything on any page anywhere on Wikipedia is still "publishing" in the sense of, e.g., "Works published in the U.S. before 1923 are in the public domain", even if the page is noindex'd and even if community convention treats such namespaces differently from the mainspace.  Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 19:05, 12 August 2016 (UTC)
 * To make clear what I mean, I do support the current proposal, that is, the changing of to, to be used when one creates a new article. Similarly, I support  for changes to an existing article. The question arose above, "What about edits to sandboxes?" which are not published to mainspace and aren't intended for public view [although sandboxes can be found by the public if searched for] . "Publish" is the wrong word for sandbox edits, so I suggested retaining  for them. This is more logical to the editor - he/she is simply saving the edit for his own use. I think you're being a bit precious in suggesting that such sandboxes are still "published" simply because they get saved on Wikipedia. That is not the shade of meaning here. In defence of this, take the case of a newbie who creates a sandbox for the first time. Under your proposal, he/she would be presented with . How logical is that?? It tells the newbie that the sandbox page is about to become 'live' on Wikipedia to everyone who visits. You've solved one misunderstanding, only to create an almost identical one. Akld guy (talk) 22:17, 12 August 2016 (UTC)
 * That sandbox page is "about to become 'live' on Wikipedia to everyone who visits". Making the information 'live' on Wikipedia is exactly what that button does.  Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 15:15, 13 August 2016 (UTC)
 * No, it does not publish it in the same way that an article is published. Also, sandboxes do not show up in Google searches. Unless you're planning some change that you haven't made clear here. Akld guy (talk) 19:56, 13 August 2016 (UTC)
 * I assure you that the "Save page" button, no matter what it is labeled, works in exactly the same way in every single namespace. Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 21:00, 15 August 2016 (UTC)


 * Why are we trying to cram nuances into a button that only fits one or two words, when we can change the disclaimer written directly above it that explains what it does? It currently reads: Why not make this say that by "saving" a page it will be made public and accessible to anybody? And before anyone says "because people don't read the fine print", I'd like them to consider the fact that we have the fine print precisely because we have chosen not to have a button that goes  – Finnusertop (talk ⋅ contribs) 23:25, 10 August 2016 (UTC)
 * I am guessing: That adds more text to the interface than this change. And people will notice the text on the button more than the text above the button. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 12:28, 11 August 2016 (UTC)
 * We have 16 years of human history, text history, and image history all saying "Save". I predict a LOT of people are still going to be calling it the "save button" years from now no matter what the button says. It is an ingrained term, and it's shorter. It would obviously be very confusing for a new editor if people are talking about the "Save button" and the button says "Publish".
 * Proposed compromise: Set the local text to . That will ensure no one is confused about anything. Heck, that should probably be the Mediawiki default and just encourage translators to use one word if appropriate. Also a question, does anyone see any real need for separate text when creating a new page vs editing an existing page? Save&Publish seems abundantly clear for both cases. Alsee (talk) 06:44, 12 August 2016 (UTC)
 * This seems to be the worst compromise, honestly. And if the issue is the meaning of "save" as Whatamidoing stated, to keep using that word would not help with their issue. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 09:28, 12 August 2016 (UTC)
 * I like this idea, and it has been considered. However, the product manager rejected it, (partly? mostly? entirely?) because it would be particularly lengthy in some languages.  Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 19:05, 12 August 2016 (UTC)
 * "Publish" sounds incorrect for PC-protected pages. Although they're saved into the database, they're not visible when someone goes to read the page. That latter seems like the lay-language meaning of the proposed new word. It might be technically correct in a licensing or data sense, but it doesn't seem more correct in those senese and seems less correct on its face. How about "post" (seems correct lay-language, and given how common that term is on other forum-like websites, legal/license is what we want) or "upload" (again, you're storing it on our website, so you can only do so for content you approve for us; and it's clearer that you're sending it to us rather than storing it for yourself)? DMacks (talk) 21:05, 12 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Symbol oppose vote.svg Oppose - I oppose but we can have a script to do it personally for a user  Varun FEB2003   I am Offline 13:18, 13 August 2016 (UTC)
 * It's very easy to change it in CSS for your own account; it can be done in a single line, and if you put it in your global.css file at Meta, then it will work at nearly all WMF wikis. However, based on one of the previous conversations, if you've been around long enough to know that user scripts exist, then you probably don't actually read the label any longer, so it may be a bit pointless.  (From here, it's just, type an edit summary and ... the button isn't even visible on the screen, and I wouldn't read it even if it were.)  Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 15:22, 13 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Hello, See my common.js to know how much I know of user scripts! Secondly I still click the save button because I find that comfortable than tab and return keys. Anyway thanks  Varun FEB2003   I am Offline 15:30, 13 August 2016 (UTC)

password reset email
Some time ago I received a email with a new temporary passwrd. It reads: "Someone (probably you, from IP address [NNN.NNN.NNN.NNN]) requested a reset of your password for Wikipedia" It then provides a temporary password and finishes with "If someone else made this request [...] you may ignore this message and continue using your old password." Sure thing, my old password kept on working as announced (until I changed it today :-). Yet, the requesting IP is not mine - a whois search tells it is from a country far away. Shouldn't Wikimedia be interested in logging that reset attempt as certainly not made by me? It could be a error but it could be something else, no? Or maybe the fact that I have not used the new password is information enough (or maybe I am just a little paranoid?...) - Nabla (talk) 19:21, 14 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Possibly someone tried to take over your account. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 19:31, 14 August 2016 (UTC)
 * You can safely ignore the request, assuming the wannabe-hijacker doesn't have access to your email. — foxj 20:04, 14 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Yes, it's happened to me three or four times. We encourage people to go to the "Log in" screen, but once there, there's nothing that we can do to prevent other people from typing in your Username and trying out a password or two, perhaps clicking some links. These chancers probably don't realise that the "Forgot your password?" link (which goes to Special:PasswordReset) doesn't actually reset the password and let them straight in, instead it sends a mail like the one that you received. You may ignore the temp password (unless you believe that your emails are insecure), you might like to alter your password in any case, but not to match the temp one. After changing your password, log out and log in again - this will invalidate any cookies that were created using your previous password, regardless of the machine that a previous login was performed on. -- Red rose64 (talk) 20:08, 14 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Thanks all. And I did all that. But my point is, shouldn't Wikimedia want to know about this attempts? This way it looks like "hey, someone tried to break into your account, you better be careful, because we do not care about it" (no more than not sending a password to any random email, that is). Maybe Mister NNN gets lucky with someone else's account, wouldn't it be useful to know that they have been trying? - Nabla (talk) 20:19, 14 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Not really. Password reset functions the same on most websites, the reset request can be made by anyone and the rest is handled automatically. If you wish, you can request a password reset of anyone you know's email account as long as you know their email address, same for Facebook and other websites. They all have to rely on some verification system that the user can check and confirm that they were the requestor. User accounts are natually attacked all the time, especially when user/pass dumps are made available online after things like the great LinkedIn user details hack of 2015. As long as you have verification turned on, don't do something ridiculously stupid like using the same password on multiple sites, use 2FA where available and pay attention when you DO get reset notifications - you don't have much to worry about. WikiMedia can't do much about single attempts apart from potentially block the attackers at that time, but the man-power required to do that - when any wiki could have thousands of reset requests every hour - would be prohibitive. Nanonic (talk) 20:44, 14 August 2016 (UTC)
 * I understand this is more or less standard site behaviour, and it is also a mostly safe procedure. I just can't figure why such information seems to be completely irrelevant. I mean, if my account gets a log in from an IP which is not from my usual range, but instead is from across the globe, maybe some extra care should be taken...? Well... I may go half way the globe an log in from there, maybe there is not much that can be done with that information. But it sure feels like it could be useful. Nanonic, I think that gathering the information is not at all a work intensive task, it just needs adding a "I have not asked for this" link on the email, triggering storing that is some database. Using the information, yes, that may need more work... Oh, well, either I am paranoid or a couple decades ahead of time. Or both. Thanks! - Nabla (talk) 21:21, 14 August 2016 (UTC)
 * It's not that it's irrelevant, it's just that there's not much we can/should do with that data. "IP from the other side of the world" isn't very telling in this day and age; it's absolutely trivial to get a VPN in another country so geolocating is a crapshoot at best. Plus, tracking (over time) where one logs in from to determine what's an acceptable "home" region doesn't seem like the sort of private data we need to be amassing ;-) Now, providing a link to report back "I did not request this password reset" could be useful...in aggregate. There's not a ton we can do with a singular incident from a single IP (could've been a typo, confused user, anything), but if we saw a *ton* of requests coming from a specific IP (or range), that might be interesting/actionable. <b style="color:#c22">^</b><b style="color:#000">demon</b><sup style="color:#c22">[omg plz] <em style="font-size:10px;">00:43, 15 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Filed T142957 because I'm bored today :) <b style="color:#c22">^</b><b style="color:#000">demon</b><sup style="color:#c22">[omg plz] <em style="font-size:10px;">00:48, 15 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Thank you, ^demon, my point exactly, about a possible ton of such requests. (glad I've gave you something to releve your boredom - while also releving mine, this was on hold for a few weaks). You are right, gathering data for a "usual log in location" is probably not really a good idea. - Nabla (talk) 12:19, 15 August 2016 (UTC)
 * I want to add a more benign and common reason: you go to the website, you think you've got an account, you try out the most likely name – and when it doesn't work, eventually you think, "Oh, right, that username was already taken, so I added a number at the end..."  There are about 20 accounts whose user name begins with "Nabla".  Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 21:21, 15 August 2016 (UTC)

Double draftifying
Earlier today at AFC using Mr. Stradivarius' Draftify I moved User:Sarahcmccollum/sandbox to Draft:Luise Clayborn Kaish. Draftify reported the move as Done, but returned an edit conflict error in the next line and stalled. Looking into what happened, reveals that  performed a move 2 seconds later. I'm clueless about the finer details of MediaWiki, but since Roger says he has never seen this before in his nine years of editing, I'm posting this for you who have more knowledge. As a side note: Personally I do not make much use of the "Mark as under review" option in the AFC Helper script that will display AFC submission/reviewing, so I'm not blaming Dodger67 he didn't, but this case may be a reminder that we should use it more. — Sam Sailor Talk! 18:34, 9 August 2016 (UTC)
 * I used the move function that's built into the AFC review template on the draft. If my move was executed two seconds after Sam Sailor's I would have expected mine to fail as an edit conflict, but I got no indication that something odd had happened. It's only when Sam Sailor told me about it that I saw the (impossible) double move in the page history. So how could this have happened? BTW I use "Mark as under review" only if I'm going to do multiple edits on the draft, for a single edit move or decline it's not worth the extra five seconds it takes to tag it, as the very occasional edit conflict is usually of no consequence. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 19:02, 9 August 2016 (UTC)
 * This wasn't a matter of "two seconds"; the two diffs were just four numbers apart (https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=733708390 and https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=733708394), so it was a tiny fraction of a second. Is it normal to get an EC notice for a move conflict?  I've never had a conflict involving a move (whether the move was attempted by me or attempted by someone else), so I'm unclear.  Nyttend (talk) 02:35, 11 August 2016 (UTC)
 * When I say "two seconds later" it is based on what Navigation popups report when hoovering over the diffs in the : and . — Sam Sailor Talk! 21:32, 15 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Okay, you win :-) I had no idea that the seconds were saved anywhere: I've only ever seen times to the minute, whether in the page history or elsewhere.  Nyttend (talk) 22:25, 15 August 2016 (UTC)
 * You don't even need a gadget like navpops. Go to, and at the "Date format" box, pick the fifth option, and save. Then view any history/contribs/watchlist page, or a diff. -- Red rose64 (talk) 22:47, 15 August 2016 (UTC)

Automatic replacement of dead links
Is there a tool that automatically detects both the tagged and untagged dead links in a particular article and then swaps them all to archived links? From what I see in WP:DEADLINK and WP:DEADREF, there is only manual way. Brandmeistertalk  18:01, 12 August 2016 (UTC)
 * User:InternetArchiveBot is a project of that sort. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 18:12, 12 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Can it be run on a particular page? Couldn't find such info on its userpage. Brandmeistertalk  18:36, 12 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Not at current, sorry.—cyberpower <sub style="margin-left:-11ex;color:red;font-family:Comic Sans MS"> Chat :Offline 23:56, 15 August 2016 (UTC)

Recent changes to ProveIt
An editor has made some bold changes to ProveIt. Anyone interested in commenting can find the ongoing discussion here: Wikipedia talk:ProveIt.- MrX 15:47, 11 August 2016 (UTC)
 * I have reverted to the previous version until I can fix the critical issues reported there. I apologize for my boldness and will keep you updated. Cheers. --Felipe (talk) 15:51, 11 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Right now I don't care which version is going to exist. What I want to know is why the gadget is not working for me when I open select articles (though it is still enabled in my preferences). Ditto with Twinkle. Kailash29792 (talk) 09:11, 12 August 2016 (UTC)
 * See Try disabling the "SidebarTranslate" gadget if you have it enabled. If that doesn't work, remove User:Cameltrader/Advisor.js from your common.js  since it's throwing up an error with WikiEd enabled. You also need to clear the "$wgAllowUserCss" bit from your common.css - NQ  (talk)  03:42, 16 August 2016 (UTC)

Edit counter which breaks down edits between automated and non-automated
...is there such a thing about, could anyone share me the link to where something might do this? Thanks, Myname is not dave (talk/contribs) 08:15, 16 August 2016 (UTC)

I'll leave you with these beautiful counters from User:MusikAnimal The first one is what you're after. - NQ (talk)  08:36, 16 August 2016 (UTC)
 * https://tools.wmflabs.org/musikanimal/nonautomated_edits
 * https://tools.wmflabs.org/musikanimal/namespace_counter
 * https://tools.wmflabs.org/musikanimal/blp_edits
 * https://tools.wmflabs.org/musikanimal/policy_edits
 * Ah, thank you! Myname is not dave (talk/contribs) 08:39, 16 August 2016 (UTC)
 * These are readily available under the 'User' tab, if you have WP:MOREMENU enabled. - NQ (talk)  08:43, 16 August 2016 (UTC)

What happened on or about 6 August?
For the last few days, the editing tools that I normally use have gone MIA.

I used to have a clock in the upper right corner which displayed UTC on every page. That now only works on certain sets of pages, e.g. not the Main Page but it works on this page.

I used to have links that would let me view all of the edits of an article by the last editor with just a click of a link. It would display when I was viewing a diff. That is gone as well as links to do reverts of those edits, either AGF or due to vandalism.

I thought they'd clear up after a few hours like the reFill issue mentioned above but they haven't. Any ideas? † Dismas †|(talk) 11:12, 6 August 2016 (UTC)


 * Edit: The clock works on this edit page but not the WP:VPT page while just reading. † Dismas †|(talk) 11:13, 6 August 2016 (UTC)
 * The UTC clock gadget (Description "Add a clock to the personal toolbar that displays the current time in UTC and provides a link to purge the current page") is displayed for me on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(technical) . If it is not shown for you, the "Console" of the "Developer Tools" of your web browser might show some related error output for further investigation. --Malyacko (talk) 19:41, 6 August 2016 (UTC)
 * I'm seeing the same thing: UTC clock/purge gadget is missing when viewing a page but shows when editing a page. I have logged out and logged back in. When I look at my web broswer's developer console, I just see the usual group of messages like "Use of "importScriptURI" is deprecated. Use mw.loader instead." I haven't changed anything in User:Jonesey95/vector.js lately. – Jonesey95 (talk) 01:44, 8 August 2016 (UTC)
 * None of my major gadgets have been working for the past few days. These include Twinkle, ProveIt and several date and language scripts. I think I'm in the same situation as you guys. Anyone know what to do? Kailash29792 (talk) 12:02, 10 August 2016 (UTC)
 * ProveIt has very definitely stopped working. It's lost its buttons, it no longer adds to the edit summary, it doesn't show the references correctly...anyone have any suggestions/solutions? Happy days, LindsayHello 18:35, 10 August 2016 (UTC)

Is ProveIt working for anyone? For something that complex, it's useful to know whether it's working for anyone, to narrow down the list of potential problems. I know it's not the most popular script, so if you use it, please speak up. Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 18:50, 12 August 2016 (UTC)
 * My bad, i should have come back here. Turns out that it was updated, then reverted back to the version which works as expected.  I was mislead because of the coincidental timing.  There's a conversation about it on Wikipedia talk:ProveIt. Happy days, LindsayHello 09:38, 13 August 2016 (UTC)


 * OP here. I've found a curious thing regarding Twinkle. Using Chrome on both my Mac and my work Windows machine, the revert links and such for Twinkle work on pages in the Wikipedia namespace but not in the main article space. † Dismas †|(talk) 22:46, 15 August 2016 (UTC)

I just did some tests with your script config and isolated the issue to having both "Compact language links" gadget in Special:Preferences as well as "SidebarTranslate: display sidebar language links in English" gadget in Special:Preferences enabled. Disable one or the other and things should be back to normal. - NQ (talk)  03:18, 16 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Wow, thanks for that work! I have disabled the beta feature (you get what you pay for, I guess). Should this incompatibility be reported as a possible bug? – Jonesey95 (talk) 05:04, 16 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Unwanted interactions between user scripts (including gadgets, which are just user scripts that are particularly easy to install) and MediaWiki extensions (such as Compact Language Links) get reported to the maintainer of the gadget. In this case, I believe that means that you leave a note for User:Equazcion at User talk:Equazcion/SidebarTranslate.  Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 08:48, 16 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Thanks, !! † Dismas †|(talk) 14:18, 16 August 2016 (UTC)

Protocol settings in External links search
Since the gradual shift from HTTP to HTTPS, Special:LinkSearch to look for spam and/or low-quality sources has become cumbersome to handle. Looking for "*.domain" does only list HTTP-results, and "https: // *.domain" lists only HTTPS results of course. Would it be possible to change the search behaviour of this feature, either by default or as optional checkbox, and just merge these result lists? If no specific protocol is provided in the search filter, it would be nice to look for all external links, regardless of their specific protocol - or at least include HTTP and HTTPS if a broad search takes too long. Of course I don't know if such a change is technically possible (or where to request it to begin with), but it would make the feature a bit more user-friendly and efficient. GermanJoe (talk) 12:47, 12 August 2016 (UTC)
 * It's been requested for eight years now, but as stated in the ticket this is a highly non-trivial exercise. In the meantime, should do the trick (let me know if you have any feature requests/bugs). MER-C 03:29, 13 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Thank you for the information, MER-C. I'll give the external tool a try. GermanJoe (talk) 09:28, 13 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Or you might like CirrusSearch regular expression searches or  as described at Help:Searching/Draft and Template:Search link/doc and mw:user:cpiral/CirrusSearch.  &mdash;  Cp i r al &sect; Cpiral  23:39, 16 August 2016 (UTC)

Unremovable notification
In my notices, I get the "More notices from another wiki MediaWiki" notice, with the "view 1 notice" below. When I open this, I get a line saying "MediaWiki", nothing else. This used to say why I got this notice (e.g. "topic added at..."), which I could then ignore. Not with this one. Worse, when I click the blue button (the only available option to "mark as read", not really obvious), the message disappears, and the counter as well, only to reappear again a second later with the same message highlighted.

When I go to MediaWiki, I have the same "1" in my intray, but no unread notifications and no way to remove the "1". When I go to the new notifications page on enwiki, I also have no unread notifications. So I'm apparently stuck with that "1" for eternity. Fram (talk) 08:16, 16 August 2016 (UTC)
 * This is (I think) the third in the list of problems in the latest Tech News above. See T140327 and T140836. Here's a ping to see if it flushes out the issue. BethNaught (talk) 08:33, 16 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the message and the ping, I got it but it didn't change the issue. Reading the phab tickets, the last comments state "Could not find any instances of the issue in production - 1.28.0-wmf.14 (ba1c692)". It seems to be, if no the same problem, then at least related. I don't see the "can mark message as read, get counter to 0, but only for a short while" aspect, but that may be implied. Anyway, they now have at least one instance in a productionwiki to deal with! Fram (talk) 08:38, 16 August 2016 (UTC)
 * This is probably T93673 which a proper fix is in progress for.
 * In the meantime, you should be able to clear the existing message via 1 of these methods: (a) go to mw:Special:Notifications, mark one notification as "unread" (click the empty circle), then click the cog-icon at the page-top and mark all as read (screenshot). (b) go to mediawiki.org, open the notices panel, mark one of the older notifications as unread, then mark it as read again. (c) go to mediawiki.org, open your browser's javascript console, paste in this line  and press [enter]. Let me know if any of those do/don't work, and I'll update the phab task accordingly, thanks. Quiddity (WMF) (talk) 17:28, 16 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Thanks. In the meantime, I got another notification from mediawiki, and when I marked that as read, the counter went back to 0. So I haven't tried your solutions, and the issue is fixed at my side, but thanks for the advice! Fram (talk) 06:34, 17 August 2016 (UTC)

Pages being marked as patrolled despite being autopatrolled
Sorry if this is the wrong place to ask or seems like a newbie question (and maybe I should know better considering I've been on Wikipedia for 10 years), but can anybody answer as to how, if I am an autopatrolled user, my pages are coming up on the new pages feed/script as "unpatrolled"? I just had a notification a while ago saying that High (EP) had been reviewed, but I created that page as an autopatrolled user. I asked the user who did and they said they clicked "patrolled" on the NPP script. How is this an option if whenever I create a page now, it is already patrolled? Is it something to do with a script that allows users to click "patrolled" even on autopatrolled users' pages?  Ss <small style="color:#1E90FF">112  16:29, 16 August 2016 (UTC)
 * As you can see here that when you created the page, it was automatically marked as patrolled. The "review" that you was informed of has nothing to do with patrolling. Ruslik_ Zero 17:21, 16 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Right, I was conflating the two. Then what is a review? Is that something one can mark off as having done on a page with a script?  Ss <small style="color:#1E90FF">112  17:39, 16 August 2016 (UTC)
 * I think that it's WP:CURATE. -- Red rose64 (talk) 23:10, 16 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Re: The bug - I'll investigate and try to reproduce this bug, tomorrow. I'm not deeply familiar with NPP yet, but AFAIK that is indeed a bug.
 * Re: Terminology - "Review" is very ambiguous, potentially referring to (a) WP:New Page Patrol (aka PageTriage, aka Page Curation), or (b) to WP:Reviewing (aka Pending changes, aka the Enwiki configuration of Flagged revisions), or (c) to WP:Articles for creation reviews, or (d) to WP:REVIEW (Peer reviews).
 * Re: The notification message - These are triggered by page-patrol, either via Special:NewPagesFeed or via the link at the bottom of each new article. Historically: Enwiki changed the local notification messages in Oct 2014. Currently: The overhauled Extension:Echo uses a new structure, with new message-strings, hence the new default (MediaWiki:Notification-header-pagetriage-mark-as-reviewed) is being shown instead of those older messages.
 * However, I'm not sure whether to suggest changing that message locally, or updating the software itself to use "patrol" instead of "review" everywhere, given (1) the perennial confusion about those terms, and (2) the target demographic for these messages is newcomers who will be confused by "patrolled", and given (3) the ongoing discussions about a new user-group for New Page Patrollers (which has suggested naming "New Page Reviewer").
 * HTH, and hope that's all accurate. I'm not sure where the terminology-focused discussion should occur, but probably not here, given the huge bikeshed potential ;) Quiddity (WMF) (talk) 02:37, 17 August 2016 (UTC)
 * It looks like though the page was already "patrolled" (automatically) someone else later went through and marked it "reviewed" (see page log), and the notification was triggered based on that. I think the question seems to be why was that page able to be marked "reviewed" when it should have already been "autoreviewed".  —  xaosflux  Talk 03:18, 17 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Side note, I'm still lost on what a group for "New Page Patrollers" would actually "do" (are there existing permissions that users don't have that would be bundled to this assignable group? Is it to house brand new extensions to the permissions system? Is it part of removing rights from exiting editors?) —  xaosflux  Talk 03:20, 17 August 2016 (UTC)
 * , I'm extremely surprised at your comment here, because your very questions were explained to you personally in penetrating detail very recently, explicitly because you had already misunderstood the suggestions in spite of them already being quite clearly discussed in a thread you started. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 04:40, 17 August 2016 (UTC)
 * I know we talked - but I'm still missing something! I think that because we have multiple systems with the same or similar terminology is what is tripping me up (between the tools related to "(patrol)", the "review" permissions related to "stable/pending versions", the ability to use the "review" features related to "curate", and the AfC scripts) I read over mw:Topic:T7bfjv9rhjybw333 as well but am still missing something.  As seen in the beginning of this thread, we already have a page that is separately being logged "patrolled" and "reviewed".  Do you have a proposal page that outlines all of the changes (what needs to be removed and added in concert)? (something akin to The page mover group RfC perhaps?. —  xaosflux  Talk 10:31, 17 August 2016 (UTC)
 * , In that  same thread you told me words to the effect: 'I'm a bureaucrat, I know all about user rights groups'  This new development has nothing to do with Rollbackers, Page Movers, Template Editors, or Recent Changes Patrolers. It is to be a new MediaWiki user group that will, on application for the right, allow people to tag new pages that appear in the New Pages Feed. That's it. The source code of how this will be done is of no interest to anyone but the developers who work on the NedaWiki software.  The list of actual additions and changes needed to the Page Curation software prior to the creation of the user group were submitted by me in a meeting I had with Foundation staff a few weeks ago. Developmnt  is likely to take several months because it includes a proper landing page for new users - something Wikipediahas never had. Our concerns are to better control what gets published without discouraging good faith editors. To learn more, you may wish to tryout the current systems at AfC (of which I had no hand in the 2007 development) and and Page Curation which I co-developed with the Foundation and others in 2011. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 11:29, 17 August 2016 (UTC)
 * OK, so a new access for a new kind of tagging - Is there anything that most editors can already do (such as mark a page as "reviewed") that you want to prevent them from being able to do? — xaosflux  Talk 13:19, 17 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Currently, the patrol user-right is given to the autoconfirmed user-group, which is vastly too wide, and leading to problems. The plan is to create a new user-group, for just this user-right. The patrol user-right is used for New Page [patrol/curation/triage/review/checking]. Quiddity (WMF) (talk) 17:41, 17 August 2016 (UTC) -
 * Thank you! That is all I was really looking for here!  This would be similar to the "Patrollers" group at commons: - but may have the additional settings related to the NewPagesFeed, correct.  This would be pretty easy to get an RfC going for (Move the "patrol" permission from confirmed to a new group). —  xaosflux  Talk 20:44, 17 August 2016 (UTC)
 * , Both those log actions are for patrol (click "Hide review log" to verify) - Curate and Patrol are the same thing - the confusion is again due to the wording in messages. Uselang=qqx leads me to MediaWiki:Logentry-pagetriage-curation-reviewed. (And to repeat, we should probably bikeshed discuss the terminology elsewhere. But briefly, "review" is the software default term, which is ambiguous/confusing for everyone. The word "patrol" is the local (inconsistent) override, which is a confusing word for newcomers, and also ambiguous. The words "curation" and "triage" are used in the documentation, which is confusing. We should determine a replacement. Naming things is hard.). Quiddity (WMF) (talk) 17:41, 17 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Me again - so if this page was already marked "patrolled" why was it able to be marked "patrolled" again - are there still multiple patrol flags that can be set per page - or can it just be patrolled over and over again? I noticed that pages can also be marked "UNREVIEWED" (example log). —  xaosflux  Talk 20:44, 17 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Yup, that's what I was referring to in my initial "Re: The bug [...]" comment. I'm now looking through the phab tasks to see if it's already reported, and will do some testing once that's done. Quiddity (WMF) (talk) 21:11, 17 August 2016 (UTC)
 * No existing bugs that I can find.
 * Some testing on testwiki suggests to me that the 2 log items come from the interplay between the 2 levels of software, the core mw:Help:Patrolled edits feature, and the newer WP:NPP page. If I use the core feature, it marks the revision as patrolled. If I use NPP, it marks the page as [reviewed/patrolled] and the revision as patrolled. -- E.g. a single "mark as reviewed" action at NPP triggered both log actions in this testpage log).
 * However, If I use the core patrolled-edits feature on a page, and then visit it with NPP (using another account) it is not possible to use the NPP popout to "mark as reviewed" without "unreviewing" it first. I don't know how it is possible to have that log entry appear later in time, without that unreview. I've filed it as T143286. Quiddity (WMF) (talk) 23:26, 17 August 2016 (UTC)

Dropdown lists
I recently worked out some html code that creates a dropdown list (like when you click on the arrow a list drops down) The code that does this is: However this code is not working for Wikipedia! Can someone help me create the code that can create a dropdown list! Please  Varun FEB2003   I am Offline 12:11, 17 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Not all HTML tags are allowed in Wikipedia. See a list of allowed tags here. In particular,  and   are not supported. Ruslik_ Zero  13:01, 17 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Then how do I use it here? Are there alternatives can you help please? Redrose64?  Varun FEB2003   I am Online 13:07, 17 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Generally you can not create drop down lists in Wikipedia. You'd better to say what you want to achieve with a drop down list. Then we may be able to help you. Ruslik_ Zero 13:13, 17 August 2016 (UTC)
 * A template to help others create drop down lists.  Varun FEB2003   I am Online 13:34, 17 August 2016 (UTC)
 * What would that template be used for, besides helping people make drop down lists? --Izno (talk) 13:42, 17 August 2016 (UTC)
 * The purpose of a drop-down list is to make a selection. As far as I know we have no feature which would be able to use a selection for anything. If you want to display something different depending on the selection then it would require more than just a drop-down list to make the selection. The closest we have may be sortable tables where you can click the column to sort by, and collapsible tables where you can click show or hide. PrimeHunter (talk) 14:11, 17 August 2016 (UTC)
 * I know about them but can you help me create what I actually want to. Can you please tell me what can be the alternative coding for it which does the same thing. Please! Thanks  Varun FEB2003   I am Online 17:03, 17 August 2016 (UTC)
 * VarunFEB2003, what you're suggesting is likely to be a major breach of WP:ACCESS unless you have the technical knowledge to embed appropriate ARIA markup to make it screen-reader readable (which having seen your edit history, I find unlikely), and will also have a significant impact on printability and mirror sites. Unless you can give a very good justification for why you want to use a drop-down list on Wikipedia, any attempt to do so is very likely to be treated as disruption. &#8209; Iridescent 17:12, 17 August 2016 (UTC)

Does it breach a policy, I didn't get a word you wrote above. If you just tell me how I have to do I can get it done, my father is a very good coder/programmer. Thanks.  Varun FEB2003   I am Online 17:15, 17 August 2016 (UTC)
 * You can make personal drop-down lists as described here. However it is unlikely that this will ever be implemented site-wide. Ruslik_ Zero 17:18, 17 August 2016 (UTC)
 * If you really didn't get a word you wrote above, you should not be working on template coding; no ifs, no buts. Everything I mention are either key Wikipedia guidelines, or basic principles of web design. To put it in simple language: You are asking for help in doing something that is fundamentally disruptive. If you do it and can't either do it in a way that complies with Wikipedia policy and practice, or provide a good reason why the benefits justify the policy breach, you will be treated as any other disruptive editor and blocked. As has already been pointed out to you in the various posts you ignore on your talkpage, you have less than 7% of your edits to mainspace, and are rapidly exhausting WP:AGF and WP:CIR. &#8209; Iridescent 17:24, 17 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Iridescent no problem I just asked if it evades policy then i'll not proceed further. okay okay!  Varun FEB2003   I am Online 17:27, 17 August 2016 (UTC)
 * (edit conflict) You still haven't clarified what you want to use it for. Assuming you want a way for users to select which content to display, it cannot be done without somebody making the code and then getting consensus to permit the code, maybe by installing an extension (would also require acceptance by the server administrators in the Wikimedia Foundation), or making common JavaScript for all users of the English Wikipedia. Users without JavaScript should also be able to see our content so a fallback system would be needed for a JavaScript solution. We want our content to be reusable, also in print and other media without interaction. PrimeHunter (talk) 17:35, 17 August 2016 (UTC)
 * I have dropped the project since I learned it breaches some policy and then I don't want to create such a big discussion for a thing that want be of much use. Thank You all for your guidance and help.  Varun FEB2003   I am Online 06:32, 18 August 2016 (UTC)

Unable to make fullpage edits to an article
For some reason, almost every time I edit the entire article List of DTT channels in the United Kingdom using the main edit link, I am unable to publish, preview or show changes. The later two options eventually generate the error:
 * An error occurred while attempting to preview your changes.
 * HTTP error: timeout

I am able to edit individual sections of the article fine. This has been happening for the past few weeks, but isn't happening to me on any other article. Eladkse (talk) 15:16, 15 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Are you editing from a small portable device? I just did a full page edit from my PC, and both the preview and the show changes worked fine. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 15:22, 15 August 2016 (UTC)
 * No, I'm on a PC. Have tried on other PCs too. Eladkse (talk) 15:27, 15 August 2016 (UTC)
 * I just made a trivial change to it and it saved immediately. I'm using IE 10. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 17:45, 15 August 2016 (UTC)
 * I have just tried editing as an anon and it is working fine. Seems this is very specific to my account. Eladkse (talk) 20:18, 15 August 2016 (UTC)
 * I see several edits by you on that page - did your edit actually succeed after the timeout or it's just some edits that made through? If it's the latter, can you tell me the precise time of when that happened (try making another edit if you're unsure)? Max Semenik (talk) 00:31, 16 August 2016 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure which edits you're specifically looking at, but my recent edits are mostly section edits. There is the odd fullpage edit that does make it through, but I can't correlate as to why this happens. Trying just now seems to work fine - but this is exception rather than the norm. I'll update this post when I next find I cannot edit the whole page. Eladkse (talk) 10:33, 16 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Historically edits that appear to fail sometimes succeed, becsuse the save works but the render times out. Which further muddies the waters if this is still the case.  All the best: Rich Farmbrough, 11:55, 18 August 2016 (UTC).

NewPP limit report
It was sometimes useful to view the HTML source of a wiki page, then search for "NewPP" to see the "NewPP limit report" (new page parser). It's still present on cached pages, but purging shows that NewPP has been replaced with some clever stuff (wgPageParseReport) that would presumably need a script to interpret. Is the info going to be displayed somewhere readily available such as at Page Information ? I have sometimes pointed people to NewPP while explaining why a problem needs to be fixed. Johnuniq (talk) 04:07, 16 August 2016 (UTC)
 * I dunno, the new HTML comment still is human readable. But it needs to be documented. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 06:35, 16 August 2016 (UTC)
 * If you have a look at the change that introduced it, you can see that all of the same data is there. The only difference is that it's a structured JSON object now instead of hardcoded English strings in an HTML comment. For example, "Cache expiry" is now "cachereport-ttl." It's no less readily available than before, it's still in the page source (as well as on preview and a few other places too if I'm reading the follow-up changes correctly). I don't see any particular reason it couldn't be exposed via action=info as well :) <b style="color:#c22">^</b><b style="color:#000">demon</b><sup style="color:#c22">[omg plz] <em style="font-size:10px;">06:40, 16 August 2016 (UTC)
 * It seems to be missing from previews… Jc86035 (talk • contribs) Use &#123;&#123;re&#124;Jc86035&#125;&#125; to reply to me 06:54, 16 August 2016 (UTC)
 * I have occasionally written module code to fix a template limit problem, and have found it convenient to copy the NewPP report into a text editor so I can easily compare the before/after reports. I can still do that, but there is now quite a lot of syntax surrounding the nuggets of data. It would be nice if action=info showed something similar to the original text, but I suppose that won't happen due to the pain of doing it properly with i18n. Johnuniq (talk) 08:02, 16 August 2016 (UTC)

So I started hacking about adding this to action=info. The biggest problem will be coming up with some decent strings to describe these fields, as well as properly expanding the arrays into a more presentable format. Thoughts? <b style="color:#c22">^</b><b style="color:#000">demon</b><sup style="color:#c22">[omg plz] <em style="font-size:10px;">01:50, 18 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Update! I realized we actually have messages on hand for most of this already! :) Only need some better formatting for the timing report I think :) <b style="color:#c22">^</b><b style="color:#000">demon</b><sup style="color:#c22">[omg plz] <em style="font-size:10px;">02:50, 18 August 2016 (UTC)
 * @^demon: Thanks, that's great! I hope your code would show the "scribunto" items that occur if a module is invoked. An example which was over 10 seconds two days ago is here—for some reason it is now 6 seconds but nothing seems to have changed to cause the improvement...strange, although not relevant here. It would be nice if the "timingprofile" array could be displayed with line breaks instead of the array indices. Johnuniq (talk) 10:11, 18 August 2016 (UTC)


 * Is the info going to be available when previewing a page? That used to be very, very convenient. Uanfala (talk) 19:49, 18 August 2016 (UTC)
 * I talked to Aaron earlier, he said it's fixed in the master branch, so hopefully be on the wikis next week? <b style="color:#c22">^</b><b style="color:#000">demon</b><sup style="color:#c22">[omg plz] <em style="font-size:10px;">20:20, 18 August 2016 (UTC)

[Idea] Wikidata descriptions to help disambiguate article topic on mobile web
Hello everyone, the Reading team  would like to help readers learn faster about the topics they are browsing on our mobile site, by displaying Wikidata descriptions underneath article title. This has been the case on apps for a while now, and the team would like to move with the same practice to mobile web, and help our mobile readers, by using content from a Wikipedia sister project. This change has already been enabled on Catalan and Polish Wikipedias. There is a page the describes the idea and the details here. Please check to learn more about the rationale and the details of the suggested change.--Melamrawy (WMF) (talk) 16:10, 12 August 2016 (UTC)


 * Um, what about the sourcing? Wikipedia article lead sections usually rely on the sources in the article beneath. Wikidata material is usually unsourced or poorly sourced. Also, what about articles without a Wikidata item? Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 16:15, 12 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Does this proposal include all the other changes from image 1 to 2? (e.g. translation tool, reordered buttons) —  xaosflux  Talk 20:01, 14 August 2016 (UTC)

Hello Xaosflux, the difference is that now the language switcher change has moved to stable. I have just updated the screenshot above. Thanks! --Melamrawy (WMF) (talk) 20:22, 18 August 2016 (UTC)

Template:Infobox wildfire
I just finished (well almost finished) adding map capabilities to Infobox wildfire. I used Location map to make it happen but I'm stuck on a couple of things and would love some assistance. Thanks in advance! -- Zackmann08 (Talk to me/What I been doing) 17:49, 18 August 2016 (UTC)
 * 1) Even with  is supplied, the default caption of   is showing up. (See Blue Cut Fire for an example).
 * 2) How can I add pages to Category:Wildfire articles needing coordinates based on them neither using  or any of the individual coordinate parameters?
 * Regarding (1), . -- Red rose64 (talk) 18:19, 18 August 2016 (UTC)
 * thanks but that isn't exactly what I was hoping for. It has a rather unattractive format. What I was trying to do was reproduce what is done in Infobox airport. See Santa Barbara Municipal Airport for an example. -- Zackmann08 (Talk to me/What I been doing) 18:31, 18 August 2016 (UTC)
 * What's unattractive about it? -- Red rose64 (talk) 18:45, 18 August 2016 (UTC)
 * you could use code like this:  – but this won't take account of articles using Coord outside the infobox (e.g. Summerland disaster), so a better category name would probably be "Category:Infobox Wildfire without coordinates" (or similar wording) - Evad37 &#91;talk] 00:23, 19 August 2016 (UTC)

Google returning outdated text snippet for Gender page
When searching for "gender" on Google, a text snippet from a disruptive May 26 revision of the Gender page is being returned. (The page has been semi-protected since June 23 due to excessive vandalism.) The page's current cache in Google is from August 1, so I don't understand why the snippet is still showing the outdated information. As I discussed on the Gender talk page, this problem came up several weeks ago, appeared to be resolved, and has now resurfaced. I reviewed a Google help page on text snippets, and it doesn't appear that Google can or will update them manually. Any suggestions of how or if this can be fixed? Funcrunch (talk) 23:18, 7 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Click on the send feedback link on the bottom of the Google search page? We have no control over when Google next crawls our articles. Beyond contacting them we can't do anything about it. --Majora (talk) 23:20, 7 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Again, the cache of the page in Google is up to date, so it's not just a matter of waiting for another crawl. It's the text snippet preview that is outdated. As I explained at the Gender talk page, I already contacted Google several weeks ago to remove the cached page from their database, and some time after that the snippet began correctly displaying text from the updated page. But now the problem has resurfaced, so something else is going on. Funcrunch (talk) 23:28, 7 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Alright. But I'm not sure what you want people here to do about this. You can try contacting Google again. Beyond that there is nothing more I (or anyone else really) can suggest. I have no idea how Google chooses how to display their results but we certainly have no control over it. I'm sorry that that is not really a good answer but that is really the only answer anyone on Wikipedia can give. --Majora (talk) 23:32, 7 August 2016 (UTC)
 * I would say it's definitely a problem with Google. I tried searching "gender" on Bing, Yahoo, and DuckDuckGo; each of those showed a snippet close to what's in the article now, whereas Google shows me the snippet you're talking about. I would think someone at Google would want to know that they're serving up 2-month-old snippets that don't match the cache, but I haven't a clue as to where to begin to find them. — Gorthian (talk) 00:53, 8 August 2016 (UTC)
 * The full snippet for me is:
 * https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Gender&oldid=722247975 is the revision saying "There are only 2 genders. Male and Female." I don't know how Google got the "Retrieved from" part into the snippet. PrimeHunter (talk) 01:11, 8 August 2016 (UTC)
 * I believe Google doesn't take CSS into account when evaluating text snippets, and that text is displayed to non-CSS-enabled browsers. Graham 87 04:00, 8 August 2016 (UTC)
 * On viewing the source for the old page revision, I see this soon after the page content:  So it looks like Google is displaying as its text snippet the print-formatted version of an old revision of the page? Funcrunch (talk) 17:11, 9 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Nope... You are making the assumption that there is an actual difference between a print and a display version. There is not, there is just CSS dressing both of them up. See note by Graham for actual cause. —Th e DJ (talk • contribs) 09:37, 11 August 2016 (UTC)
 * I just tried Google-searching for various snippets from the Gender article; The url of the returned pages is always Masculinity vs femininity, a redirect to a non-existing section of Gender. The title of the page is correct, however - "Gender - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia". עוד מישהו Od Mishehu 02:59, 8 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Could you share examples of some of your searches? That does sound strange... Funcrunch (talk) 15:41, 8 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Just go to Google and search for "gender". It's the first hit on the list!  It seems plausible to me that the same person who made this edit might have known how to get Google to lock on it... Wnt (talk) 16:09, 8 August 2016 (UTC)
 * I was asking about 's searches for "various snippets from the article", not about searching on the term "gender" itself (which is what I originally posted about). Funcrunch (talk) 16:46, 8 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Look at this search, this one, and [this one, foe example. [[User:Od Mishehu|עוד מישהו]] Od Mishehu 17:16, 8 August 2016 (UTC)
 * I've submitted a request to refresh the snippet cache. Let's see if it works. - NQ (talk)  —Preceding undated comment added 16:11, 8 August 2016 (UTC)
 * I tried that before, and the results were corrected temporarily, but then reverted to the way they are now. Maybe this time it will work... I also tried the "send feedback" link yesterday, highlighting the incorrect text snippet. We'll see... Funcrunch (talk) 16:49, 8 August 2016 (UTC)
 * I don't have a login set up for using the page, but I wonder if someone is going to that removal page and requesting "outdated content" be removed for https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Gender&oldid=722247975 on a regular basis. What's kind of cool is that if this really works you can use it for any vandal edit in the history of any article.  A way to test it would be to pick a different vandal oldid and try the same removal request and see if you can spoil results for that article... Wnt (talk) 12:51, 9 August 2016 (UTC)

Google still returns it I've RevDel-ed the revision in question. Let's see if that, combined with their feedback tool (I sent them a complaint about this), will get them to fix it. עוד מישהו Od Mishehu 14:05, 12 August 2016 (UTC)


 * According to my hypothesis, this would prevent the refresh from restoring the oldid version, but someone still needs to request a refresh with some other version before the snippet changes. Right now it's still the same snippet.  If our vandal is feeling generous he'll start refreshing with some other oldid in the database (or submit a new one) and then that will come up instead. Wnt (talk) 15:07, 12 August 2016 (UTC)


 * Now this is interesting... I just re-checked the page after revdeleted the bad revision and  purged the current page. Searching Google for "gender" still returns the outdated text snippet, but now the page in Google's cache, which previously showed an up-to-date revision from August 1, is showing the bad revision from May 26. Funcrunch (talk) 18:15, 12 August 2016 (UTC)
 * For anyone who submitted a google content update request, has your request progressed past "Pending" ? — xaosflux  Talk 18:30, 12 August 2016 (UTC)
 * My request from July 3 to remove the bad revision has a status of "Expired". Funcrunch (talk) 18:35, 12 August 2016 (UTC)
 * I put one in earlier, status is "Denied". — xaosflux  Talk 23:36, 12 August 2016 (UTC)
 * I put in an appeal to Jimbo (User_talk:Jimbo_Wales) to find a better way to route problems to Google. — xaosflux  Talk 23:42, 12 August 2016 (UTC)
 * ✅ The google snippet now matches the very short replacement of the entire page that I made (just our lead sentence). The "HOW" or "WHY" of Google's change is still a mystery. —  xaosflux  Talk 19:44, 13 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the update. I'll be keeping an eye on this search, as this problem was previously resolved and then reoccurred. Funcrunch (talk) 21:03, 13 August 2016 (UTC)

Just did a check, and as I feared, the problem has resurfaced. Searching Google for "gender" returns. That's the vandalized May 26 revision, which was revdeleted on August 12. Google's cache currently shows a page revision from August 13, so that's up to date; just the snippet is wrong. What's going on here?? Pinging as the closer of this issue... Funcrunch (talk) 17:10, 18 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Marked as "unresolved" - but this really isn't a Wikipedia problem - it is a Google problem. We have identified a problem with how to get WMF to complain to Google.... anyone know where to go from here? —  xaosflux  Talk 17:44, 18 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Contact one of the google-affiliated WMF board members directly? Only in death does duty end (talk) 12:34, 19 August 2016 (UTC)

Create file redirect from red link
When you click on a red link to a file, it goes directly to the file upload page. Can we add an option to create a redirect to an existing file? This would br most useful for allowing deleted files to be viewed in page history if they are re-uploaded following concensus etc--Prisencolin (talk) 18:59, 18 August 2016 (UTC)
 * See User:Equazcion/SkipFileWizard. -- Red rose64 (talk) 19:10, 18 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Ah thanks, this is exactly what I'm looking for. I gotta look into more of these scripts, they might come in handy from time to time.--Prisencolin (talk) 18:41, 19 August 2016 (UTC)

TOC problems
Not sure if this is the right place to ask, but I've been running into some problems with tables of contents while working on. TOC hidden isn't working - the TOC just appears normally. Additionally, when I then hide it, TOCs on other pages appear hidden. I've experimented on 3 different computers, so I don't think that is the problem. seems to be encountering the same issue. Any ideas about what is causing this? G S Palmer (talk • contribs) 18:36, 20 August 2016 (UTC)
 * TOC hidden is disabled in mainspace. See the page history and talk page. I have restored documentation saying this.[//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:TOC_hidden/doc&diff=735449691&oldid=612598720] PrimeHunter (talk) 20:09, 20 August 2016 (UTC)

display of logs
Does anyone know which MediaWiki-namespace entries control the displays of the logs (Special:Log)? (disclaimer, I want to make the display of the spamblacklistlog more useful). Thanks! --Dirk Beetstra T C 05:22, 21 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Per this link, which outputs MediaWiki message names rather than their values, the page you want is MediaWiki:Logentry-spamblacklist-hit. Graham 87  07:39, 21 August 2016 (UTC)
 * thanks, that was what I wanted to know. Unfortunately $1 is there expanded, it is not the plain username (I wanted to tweak it so I could add a link to 'Special:Log/spamblacklist/ ' (see for this user the contents of that specific log - now I have to click the contribs for the user, click the logs, select the spamblacklistlog)).  :-( ..  --Dirk Beetstra T  C 10:30, 21 August 2016 (UTC)
 * $2 looks like it just expands to the username or IP. —Cryptic 11:19, 21 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Yes. The source of MediaWiki:Logentry-spamblacklist-hit says: . translatewiki:MediaWiki:Logentry-spamblacklist-hit/qqq says: "$2 - unused, or user who performed the action (to be used with GENDER)". It's transcluded from translatewiki:Template:Logentry so the "unused, or" part is apparently because the same documentation is used for similar messages. PrimeHunter (talk) 11:32, 21 August 2016 (UTC)
 * translatewiki:MediaWiki:Logentry-spamblacklist-hit/qqq also says: "Wiki markup is not supported in these messages". It's possible html with url's is supported but I don't know. PrimeHunter (talk) 11:41, 21 August 2016 (UTC)
 * I tried html and it didn't work. The html for a link was just displayed as plain text. PrimeHunter (talk) 12:03, 21 August 2016 (UTC)
 * The magic problem is, from translatewiki:Template:Logentry, Wiki markup is not supported in these messages. So I cannot add a custom link here :-(.  --Dirk Beetstra T  C 11:40, 21 August 2016 (UTC)

HTTP 403 error message


Have we ever used something like this image to reflect an HTTP 403 error? The image is used in that article, and between the quality of the image and the simple wording (allegedly dating from 2010), I'm doubtful. Nyttend (talk) 16:01, 21 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Some results from a Google search on "Error 403 bad bad, very bad request": Reference desk/Archives/Computing/2010 May 21, Help desk/Archives/2010 June 21, Bits.wikimedia.org/Varnish testing. It looks real. PrimeHunter (talk) 16:57, 21 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Oh boy, early testing of varnish for bits.wikimedia.org! Yep, that was definitely a thing. If you look at the history for that wikitech page the wording makes even more sense 😂 <b style="color:#c22">^</b><b style="color:#000">demon</b><sup style="color:#c22">[omg plz] <em style="font-size:10px;">17:08, 21 August 2016 (UTC)

Unnecessarily high precision for watchlist notice
I got this notice on my watchlist earlier today:

That should probably be fixed, such a high precision is entirely unnecessary there. nyuszika7h (talk) 20:51, 21 August 2016 (UTC)

Chinese characters in mobile
I've recently started to notice a pair of random Chinese characters when accessing articles on my Kyocera flip-phone. When I first saw such characters, I assumed that they were vandalism, but virtually every article features the same two characters, at the very top on the left side. What's the point of including them everywhere? I can't copy/paste them, because the phone doesn't have the ability to edit (or the ability to copy/paste content in any other manner), and I'm not seeing these characters when accessing pages on my computer. Nyttend (talk) 05:15, 21 August 2016 (UTC)
 * These characters appear to be the mobile equivalent of the languages part of the sidebar. Clicking on them opens up a language selection tab, allowing you to select what language version of the article you wish to read. -- The Voidwalker  Discuss 21:45, 21 August 2016 (UTC)

Flashearth
Hi, this site linked in the geohack maps http://www.flashearth.com/ is currently down. I noticed a few weeks ago that the site had changed and altered. It's possible they no longer have the financing to run. I used it for years for finding coordinates. Perhaps it should be removed from the list if it stays down? Can somebody find an alternative with shows the exact coordinates when you hover over a location? I used to have Google earth but not any longer.♦ Dr. Blofeld  07:34, 18 August 2016 (UTC)
 * It looks like the website has been hacked, since its page source is now  so I've commented it out from Template:GeoTemplate. -- Red rose64 (talk) 13:19, 18 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Here's a geolocation website: http://itouchmap.com/latlong.html — Diannaa (talk) 14:27, 18 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Does it have parameters by which a pair of coordinates may be fed in? -- Red rose64 (talk) 16:13, 18 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Yeah, "Show Point from Latitude and Longitude" — Diannaa (talk) 00:27, 19 August 2016 (UTC)
 * No, those are input boxes, not parameters - clicking moves the marker and zooms in, but doesn't alter the URL. In order to incorporate this site into Template:GeoTemplate, we need to be able to pass the coordinates through the URL, without the user needing to enter them manually. Flashearth did this in the form http://www.flashearth.com/?lat=51.64&lon=-1.242&z=15&r=0&src=ggl - here, the URL's query string has five parameters, the first two are   which is the latitude, and   which is the longitude. What we need are the equivalents for itouchmap.com - better still, a full list of valid parameters, so that we can set things like the zoom level and map type (e.g. topographical, satellite). -- Red rose64 (talk) 08:07, 19 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Dr. Blofeld, itouchmap.com doesn't display a map for me. I have to resort to http://www.openstreetmap.org and http://www.bing.com/maps/ together. I find the place with bing's birdseye and then compare with open street to get the coords. I sorely miss flashearth. Is there any other way I don't know about? Best, Anna Frodesiak (talk) 01:22, 19 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Here's another one you could try: http://www.gps-coordinates.net/ — Diannaa (talk) 04:46, 19 August 2016 (UTC)
 * For years I've used http://mapper.acme.com, a site that's included on GeoTemplate. It's a basic Google map, with all the normal features (plus, with the US, you have a good topo map option, but Dr. Blofeld, I know you do a ton more non-US stuff than I do), and the box at bottom right always displays the coordinates for the center of the screen.  Nyttend (talk) 11:36, 21 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Thanks. The site it seems was hacked and has now been restored.♦ Dr. Blofeld  15:30, 21 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Hi Dr. Blofeld. What has been restored? Flash Earth? For me, it still bounces to https://zoom.earth/ which doesn't work. :( Anna Frodesiak (talk) 22:11, 21 August 2016 (UTC)
 * , so . -- Red rose64 (talk) 22:22, 21 August 2016 (UTC)

Retrieving wikidata ID from talk page
How can I retrieve the wikidata item Q-ID from the talk page namespace? With we can do it from article but not from article talk.--ԱշոտՏՆՂ (talk) 11:10, 17 August 2016 (UTC)
 * talk page is just another Wikipedia page. Currently you can't accesss this info via Lua/parser functions. I think it's now closer than it was year ago, but still not doable. You can get ID with API, if needed. -- Edgars2007  (talk/contribs) 02:35, 22 August 2016 (UTC)

What's this
03:38, 19 August 2016: SSUCCK MY PUSSSY AND FUCCK ME ALADDIN PLEASE!! (talk | contribs) triggered filter 733, performing the action "edit" on User:Sro23, hi. Actions taken: none; Filter description: New user creating a page in someone else's userspace (details | examine) 03:37, 19 August 2016: SSUCCK MY PUSSSY AND FUCCK ME ALADDIN PLEASE!! (talk | contribs) triggered filter 733, performing the action "edit" on User:Sro23, hi. Actions taken: none; Filter description: New user creating a page in someone else's userspace (details | examine) 03:37, 19 August 2016: SSUCCK MY PUSSSY AND FUCCK ME ALADDIN PLEASE!! (talk | contribs) triggered filter 733, performing the action "edit" on User:Sro23, hi. Actions taken: none; Filter description: New user creating a page in someone else's userspace (details | examine) 03:37, 19 August 2016: SSUCCK MY PUSSSY AND FUCCK ME ALADDIN PLEASE!! (talk | contribs) triggered filter 733, performing the action "edit" on User:Sro23, hi. Actions taken: none; Filter description: New user creating a page in someone else's userspace (details | examine) 03:37, 19 August 2016: SSUCCK MY PUSSSY AND FUCCK ME ALADDIN PLEASE!! (talk | contribs) triggered filter 733, performing the action "edit" on User:Sro23, hi. Actions taken: none; Filter description: New user creating a page in someone else's userspace (details | examine) 03:36, 19 August 2016: SSUCCK MY PUSSSY AND FUCCK ME ALADDIN PLEASE!! (talk | contribs) triggered filter 733, performing the action "edit" on User:Sro23, hi. Actions taken: none; Filter description: New user creating a page in someone else's userspace (details | examine) 03:35, 19 August 2016: SSUCCK MY PUSSSY AND FUCCK ME ALADDIN PLEASE!! (talk | contribs) triggered filter 733, performing the action "edit" on User:Sro23, hi. Actions taken: none; Filter description: New user creating a page in someone else's userspace (details | examine) 03:34, 19 August 2016: SSUCCK MY PUSSSY AND FUCCK ME ALADDIN PLEASE!! (talk | contribs) triggered filter 733, performing the action "edit" on User:Sro23, hi. Actions taken: none; Filter description: New user creating a page in someone else's userspace (details | examine) 03:34, 19 August 2016: SSUCCK MY PUSSSY AND FUCCK ME ALADDIN PLEASE!! (talk | contribs) triggered filter 733, performing the action "edit" on User:Sro23, hi. Actions taken: none; Filter description: New user creating a page in someone else's userspace (details | examine)

in the Abuse Log No usernames exist or registered.  Varun FEB2003   I am Offline 13:05, 22 August 2016 (UTC)
 * If you're wondering why it seems like the user made these edits, with no action taken, multiple times, that's because their edits were disallowed by other filters. Sam Walton (talk) 13:18, 22 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Oh wait, I think I see what you mean. The user is apparently blocked (I see 'change block'), but there's nothing in the block log for them for some reason. Sam Walton (talk) 13:20, 22 August 2016 (UTC)
 * It's a vandal. The edits were disallowed by other filters. You can tell they exist from the 'contribs' link when you're looking at their userpages. You can tell they were blocked and suppressed from the 'accounts' link at the bottom of the contribs page. -- zzuuzz (talk) 13:21, 22 August 2016 (UTC)

Tech News: 2016-34
<section begin="technews-2016-W34"/> Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Recent changes
 * The ORES review tool is now available on Special:Contributions as a beta feature. It can make it easier to find contributions that are probably damaging the wikis. The ORES review tool is available on Wikidata and Persian, Polish, Portuguese, Dutch, Turkish and Russian Wikipedia.
 * Octicons-tools.svg The  and   functions have been updated to make it easier to write abuse filters. This also affects the TitleBlacklist extension. You don't have to transform "I" and "L" to "1", "O" to "0" and "S" to "5" anymore.
 * Octicons-tools.svg The old pageview data in the "pagecounts-raw" and "pagecounts-all-sites" files is no longer being updated. You can find the new pageview data here. This happened on August 5.

Problems
 * Some big image files could not be thumbnailed. This has now been fixed.
 * When you moved a page over a redirect it would delete the redirect without saving it in the logs. This has now been fixed.

Changes this week
 * Octicons-sync.svg The new version of MediaWiki will be on test wikis and MediaWiki.org from 23 August. It will be on non-Wikipedia wikis and some Wikipedias from 24 August. It will be on all wikis from 25 August (calendar).

Meetings
 * Octicons-sync.svg You can join the next meeting with the VisualEditor team. During the meeting, you can tell developers which bugs you think are the most important. The meeting will be on 23 August at 19:00 (UTC). See how to join.

Future changes
 * Sometimes when you mention another user they don't get a notification. You will be able to get a notification when you successfully sent out a mention to someone or be told if they did not get a notification. This will be opt-in. You can test this on the test wiki.
 * How you add text after an edit conflict might work in a different way in the future. You can test the prototype.

Tech news prepared by tech ambassadors and posted by bot • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe. <section end="technews-2016-W34"/> 21:17, 22 August 2016 (UTC)

Category:Created via preloaddraft should not be visible in mainspace
But it is. This may need some fix now and to prevent it from being mainspace-visible in the future. --<sub style="border:1px solid #228B22;padding:1px;">Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here 14:31, 22 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Why not add _HIDDENCAT_ ? BethNaught (talk) 14:57, 22 August 2016 (UTC)
 * It was deliberately set to not be hidden by Ricky81682.[//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:Created_via_preloaddraft&diff=next&oldid=697810807] A category is either hidden on all pages or visible on all pages. If we want it visible on drafts then an option would be to use namespace detection like Main other to add a new hidden Category:Articles created via preloaddraft in mainspace, and still add the visible Category:Created via preloaddraft in other namespaces. This could be done for future pages by editing the subpages at Special:PrefixIndex/Template:Preloaddraft. The current pages have  directly in the source and would need individual edits, e.g. with AWB. PrimeHunter (talk) 15:01, 22 August 2016 (UTC)
 * It was a category for drafts. I didn't expect they'd keep their usage in mainspace. Is it needed there? Feel free to revise to hidden. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 20:16, 22 August 2016 (UTC)
 * We could just say that it should be removed from full articles (which would be reasonable, as the message it gets across is not relevant if the article is of sufficient quality to be in mainspace), and then remove it from current articles with AWB. Might be worth renaming it to something like Category:Drafts created via preloaddraft to make it clear that it should only be in drafts. — crh 23   &thinsp;(Talk) 22:04, 22 August 2016 (UTC)

IP address update/tracking tool?
Anyone know of a tool I can use to monitor and be notified (like via RSS or something) when there are updates from a given IP range? I know I could set up a Twitter bot and hack the code to email me or dump to a file instead, but chances are good someone's already solved this problem. Ideas? Ivanvector 🍁  (talk) 23:21, 21 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Sounds useful for noticing the return of sock puppets. Doug Weller  talk 13:39, 22 August 2016 (UTC)
 * That's the idea, yeah. Ivanvector 🍁  (talk) 03:12, 23 August 2016 (UTC)

Outdated template
The links in this template takes us to the 2015 results (via the reference section of the articles), whereas this template  is updated. Can someone please update the "Infobox world"? Kjersti Lie (talk) 07:02, 23 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Looks like it's one or more of the subtemplates: ; ; ; ; ; ; ; and . -- Red rose64 (talk) 11:05, 23 August 2016 (UTC)

Typing into editor or edit summary on large articles is very sluggish
In recent weeks, whenever I type into the editor or the edit summary of a sizable article (not sure what I would use for a cutoff here), the keyboarding is painfully sluggish. For examples, typing in Louisville Clock seems normal while typing in Thomas Jefferson is as slow as molasses. I have been disabling gadgets/scripts to see if any of them are causing the issue, to no avail. Is anyone else seeing this behavior? Any ideas for how to narrow down the issue? <b style="color:green">Stevie is the man!</b> Talk • Work 20:54, 16 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Syntax highlighter does this for me. Occasionally it even times out. – Finnusertop (talk ⋅ contribs) 21:38, 16 August 2016 (UTC)
 * I thought that might be the issue, so I disabled it. However, this didn't fix the problem. <b style="color:green">Stevie is the man!</b> Talk • Work 21:44, 16 August 2016 (UTC)
 * What is your skin? Does it happen in other skins like [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Thomas_Jefferson&action=edit&useskin=modern Modern]? Does it happen when you log out? Does it happen at other wikis like pages at de:Special:LongPages? What is your browser? Have you tried to clear your entire cache? PrimeHunter (talk) 22:54, 16 August 2016 (UTC)
 * It happens for me at pages like Fenchurch Street railway station, which isn't particularly long. MonoBook skin, no WikEd, Firefox. -- Red rose64 (talk) 23:07, 16 August 2016 (UTC)
 * 1) Vector (default); 2) Haven't tested; 3) Haven't tested. 4) Haven't tested; 5) Chrome, but it's a problem in Firefox too; 6) Haven't tried yet. <b style="color:green">Stevie is the man!</b> Talk • Work 23:44, 16 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Also, I'm not using WikEd. <b style="color:green">Stevie is the man!</b> Talk • Work 23:45, 16 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Typing for me is slower though not painfully sluggish in Firefox on semi-protected pages with a large source text. It also happens at other wikis, in different skins, and with simple source text like a line of random letters copied thousands of times. Fenchurch Street railway station is not protected and it doesn't happen for me there. Special:ProtectedPages can be used to find protected pages at other wikis where you may be able to edit semi-protected pages. If I copy the same large source text between semi-protected pages and unprotected pages then it only happens on the semi-protected pages. I can obviously not test it when logged out. PrimeHunter (talk) 23:50, 16 August 2016 (UTC)
 * 2) didn't fix problem; 6) didn't fix problem. <b style="color:green">Stevie is the man!</b> Talk • Work 23:55, 16 August 2016 (UTC)
 * 3) I logged out and tried to edit Kentucky. Same problem. Very slow response to my typing. <b style="color:green">Stevie is the man!</b> Talk • Work 00:06, 17 August 2016 (UTC)
 * I can reproduce this issue in Firefox 48 and inconsistently in Chromium 51, at the article Thomas Jefferson, using a preferences-reset account and all (visible) gadgets disabled. By copy&pasting the text from there into other edit windows, I can reproduce at mediawiki.org. There does seem to be some partial consistency with page-protection (per PrimeHunter), but I also sometimes reproduce it on unprotected pages. There have not been any recent (since May) code changes in WikiEditor, so it's probably not a problem with that. I'll keep testing, and also asking some people. Quiddity (WMF) (talk) 00:52, 17 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Filed as T143182, with more details on browser reproducibility. Quiddity (WMF) (talk) 02:15, 17 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Firefox 48. I can drive my 2.5 GHz processor to 25% (attributed to the Firefox task only) and hold it there as long as I want, by simply typing garbage rapidly into the editor at Jefferson using two hands and six fingers. That's a lot of processing per character. For comparison, about 6% at Waters Ave S. and about 2% for Wordpad. &#8213; Mandruss  &#9742;  02:31, 17 August 2016 (UTC)

I too am facing this problem on some pages!  Varun FEB2003   I am Online 17:08, 17 August 2016 (UTC)

This appears to be a browser bug related to the handling of text directionality control characters. It may be possible to work around it in MediaWiki. See T143182#2561436 for details. --Ori Livneh (talk) 18:42, 17 August 2016 (UTC)

Update: The issue has been tracked down to be caused by the left-to-right mark (LRM). See technical notes at T143182. A bug has been filed upstream with Firefox. It doesn't affect the latest version of Chrome/Chromium, but other people had already reported it for older versions. Devs are discussing how to deal with existing uses of the LRM in the MediaWiki codebase. Quiddity (WMF) (talk) 18:46, 17 August 2016 (UTC)
 * I didn't particularly get you, I use Chrome and I am still facing that issue!  Varun FEB2003   I am Online 06:34, 18 August 2016 (UTC)
 * What version of Chrome are you using, on what kind of computer? Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 08:55, 18 August 2016 (UTC)
 * It does affect the current public version of Chrome (52) on Windows 10. <b style="color:green">Stevie is the man!</b> Talk • Work 12:14, 18 August 2016 (UTC)
 * I am using Windows 7(because I like it) on a Lenovo 35cm width by 30cm height PC. Chrome Version 51.0.2704.103 m (that's what the 'About' tab says)  Varun FEB2003   I am Online 12:17, 18 August 2016 (UTC)
 * I am using 52.0.2743.116 m to be exact. <b style="color:green">Stevie is the man!</b> Talk • Work 12:33, 18 August 2016 (UTC)
 * It took me 5 mins to type 1 letter in Syrian civil war  Varun FEB2003   I am Offline 14:50, 23 August 2016 (UTC)

action=raw on a JavaScript pretty path
Attempting to get the raw source of a JavaScript page, for example https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MediaWiki:Common.js?action=raw&ctype=text/javascript, fails with the message "Forbidden. Invalid file extension found in the path info or query string." Attempting to get raw JavaScript from index.php, for example, https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Common.js&action=raw&ctype=text/javascript, works fine. Why is action=raw forbidden on a pretty path at Wikipedia? It works fine at other MediaWiki installations elsewhere. --Unready (talk) 23:39, 21 August 2016 (UTC)
 * AFAIK the  form has always been needed for   -- Red rose64 (talk) 23:47, 21 August 2016 (UTC)
 * action=raw works fine here for non-JavaScript pages with a pretty path, for example, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(technical)?action=raw&ctype=text/javascript. Something special is happening with JavaScript (and CSS as well) at Wikipedia, presumably for a reason. What's the reason? --Unready (talk) 23:52, 21 August 2016 (UTC)
 * It's the period in the filename, which trips MediaWiki's IE6 security filter. Legoktm (talk) 19:20, 22 August 2016 (UTC)
 * It is indeed any page with a "." in the title. So where/how does that get configured, because WikiMedia sites appear to be the only ones with it enabled? --Unready (talk) 20:37, 22 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Based on T30235 and my experience with other MediaWiki installations, I believe it's not a MediaWiki thing, but the web server configuration at WikiMedia, which was indeed implemented to protect IE6 users. If someone made an article called runthis.exe, IE6 would save it as runthis.exe and offer to run it. Saving it as index.php doesn't create the same risk. There are similar things with other file extensions IE6 thinks it knows how to handle. My curiosity is reasonably satisfied. --Unready (talk) 16:25, 23 August 2016 (UTC)

HTML tidy or ?
and posted a thread at Help desk about a quirk which I was able to simplify to the following:
 * Example
 * Item 1
 * Item 3 (double indented)
 * Item 3 (double indented)

why is this text indented?

and why is this text indented?

</dl> but this finally breaks the indentation (at least as viewed in Firefox).

What is causing this? HTML tidy? thank you. Frietjes (talk) 14:00, 22 August 2016 (UTC)
 * You can see the page source:

<dl>

<dd>Item 3 (double indented)</dd>

</dl>

why is this text indented?

and why is this text indented?

</dd>

</dl>

but this finally breaks the indentation (at least as viewed in Firefox).


 * The user inputed code is not modified. So, it is looks like parser confusion. Ruslik_ Zero 19:57, 22 August 2016 (UTC)
 * This is related to Village pump (technical)/Archive 148 -- Red rose64 (talk) 22:09, 22 August 2016 (UTC)
 * And -  won't have notified . But  will. -- Red rose64 (talk) 22:13, 22 August 2016 (UTC)


 * Alright, I've dug a bit into mediawiki. This has nothing to do with, I can reproduce the bug with and without it. It's how it parses block elements such as   or   in   from  . The parser opens a   block when it sees a prefixed   and will close it with   at the next line without a  . But it doesn't seem to notice that there are other tags that were opened by the user (such as   here) and so will close a block even if a table (or anything, really) is still opened. A quick fix to the example above is to add a   to the second line:


 * Example
 * Item 1
 * Item 3 (this is okay)
 * Item 3 (this is okay)

not indented anymore

neither is this
 * So that was done at IPv4 by  was to add HTML comments in a way that the whole thing ends up on one line (comments are removed prior to parsing).


 * I don't have a quick fix.  seems very messy. I see stuff like "eh?", "The one nasty exception", a "XXX" about using stacks for nestable elements (which might be it) and notes about bugs #5718 and $785, all that in 200 lines. Isa (talk) 01:07, 23 August 2016 (UTC)
 * looked at rewriting  properly a couple of months ago.  Unfortunately, I think he came to the conclusion that there's no easy fix. C. Scott Ananian (talk) 21:29, 23 August 2016 (UTC)
 * A line break terminates a wiki-formatted list item, so attempting to straddle HTML tags across the line break boundary is incorrect and will have unintended consequences regardless of how we choose to clean it up. You should use HTML tags for template output formatting where possible, since they are less sensitive to line breaks. -- Tim Starling (talk) 23:59, 23 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Just out of curiosity, what would you have done ? I can't put  within the template markup to prevent the parser from closing blocks. Are you saying that in this particular instance a   block should be used instead of  ? Isa (talk) 01:19, 24 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Yes. I tried it out and it seemed like a huge improvement, so I was bold and went ahead and hit save. The source is much more readable thanks to extra line breaks and the removal of all workaround templates like unordered list and paragraph. -- Tim Starling (talk) 06:48, 24 August 2016 (UTC)
 * for definition lists we also have term and defn, but you can't put wikitables inside without using something like aligned table or changing all of the bars to . an even better option for that article, in my opinion, would be to use subsections rather than the term/definition list format. Frietjes (talk) 12:37, 24 August 2016 (UTC)
 * For completeness, FWIW, this is probably also related: Help desk/Archives/2016 January 23. Basically dropped as minor/lack of interest. For posterity, here is a permalink to the relevant user sandbox page: . &#8213; Mandruss  &#9742;  00:28, 24 August 2016 (UTC)

localurl
I've seen  used in templates; but Template:localurl doesn't exist, and I can't find any documentation for it. Is there any? Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 18:10, 24 August 2016 (UTC)
 * It's magic. See WP:MAGIC. -- zzuuzz (talk) 18:13, 24 August 2016 (UTC)

Regex or user script for simplifying piped links of mixed case
Moved to Wikipedia talk:User scripts. - dcljr (talk) 02:03, 25 August 2016 (UTC)

Routemap RfC
If anyone cares, I've opened an RFC on the conversion of route diagram templates to the Routemap format here. Jc86035 (talk • contribs) Use &#123;&#123;re&#124;Jc86035&#125;&#125; to reply to me 11:42, 25 August 2016 (UTC)

Can stats histories be merged after a page move?
Price Daniel, Jr. was moved to Price Daniel Jr. (the difference being no comma). The edit history merged with the move. However, the stats history remains with the old page, now a redirect. Is there a way to merge the stats? Redirects, old or new, are often at Category:Candidates for speedy deletion. I'm thinking the stats history gets lost entirely with a redirect delete. Any solutions? — Maile (talk) 12:53, 23 August 2016 (UTC)
 * It took me a while to nut out your message, but I assume you're talking about the output of the "Revision history statistics" tooll found from the history. The output of that tool is delayed by replication lag on the Wikimedia Labs server. It seems fine now. Graham 87 03:42, 24 August 2016 (UTC)
 * You misunderstood. Nothing was wrong with the stats tool.  I should have linked for you.  The stats tool only reflects the history as of the date the article was moved, new article name stats history.  All the previous stats  history is on the redirect created by the move redirect stats history.  This happens with every page move.  My question, is can the old stats history under the redirect be merged into the new stats history? — Maile  (talk) 11:50, 24 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Ah, you meant the page view stats tool. Nope, that cannot be done, and IMO it isn't advisable because someone might like to know the page view stats for a page title before it became an article. P.s. your [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Village_pump_(technical)&diff=736055487&oldid=736052072 attempt to fix your ping to me] didn't work because the mentions system requires a completely new line with a new signature to function properly. Graham 87 12:07, 25 August 2016 (UTC)

cross project use of templates?
How do you post the picture of the day from WikiMedia Commons on your userpage on Wikipedia? The Transhumanist 03:16, 25 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Do you know of another user that has this feature on their userpage? That is, is this a specific "how did they do that?" question or a more general "I have this idea..." plan? DMacks (talk) 03:21, 25 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Per Special:Interwiki the interwiki transclusion option is not active for any wiki. Which (I believe) means Scary Transclusion is not active on Enwiki. --Majora (talk) 03:35, 25 August 2016 (UTC)
 * There are ways to do commons images, and the specific example of "commons image of the day" would probably be doable in one of several ways with current configurations (and without making the servers keel over generally:). DMacks (talk) 03:45, 25 August 2016 (UTC)
 * You forgot to mention how. Make a template locally? The Transhumanist 03:49, 25 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Image links and template transclusions work differently as far as I know. You can do File:Paul Chabas September Morn The Metropolitan Museum of Art.jpg and get today's Commons Picture of the Day. But you can't do (c:template:Potd) and get a transclued version of it. I'm not aware of any way to get around that but I would be interested to know if you have any ideas. --Majora (talk) 03:52, 25 August 2016 (UTC)
 * That's why I asked about the scope of the idea here. Links and images are easy; transclusions definitely not-so-much on WMF projects. DMacks (talk) 03:55, 25 August 2016 (UTC)
 * I'm still experimenting:) But my first approach is to have the commons featured-image folks maintain a redirect to the daily picture from some static other filename that is not present on other wikis, updating it each time the main page rotates. Then anyone on any wiki can embed that image and it shows through. It works. But we'd need to get someone on commons to put this into their workflow. DMacks (talk) 03:54, 25 August 2016 (UTC)
 * It would probably just be easier to ask for scary transclusion to be turned on and only activated for the c: interwiki redirect. Unless you can program a bot for Commons that would update that redirect. I don't see the admins of Commons being too keen on adding additional work for themselves just to allow other wikis to have their POTD on their user pages. They have enough issues keeping up with all the copyvios. --Majora (talk) 04:00, 25 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Just realized that you were a Commons admin as well. Silly me. --Majora (talk) 04:01, 25 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Looks like #REDIRECT can only take a static pagename for file transclusion to work, so commons would have to manually update it each day (unlike the main page there, which determines it dynamically by templates). That is, a "File:foo" page that is " " will correctly display the image when viewing File:foo, but " " will not embed it properly. That might be a reasonable generic feature-request. DMacks (talk) 04:15, 25 August 2016 (UTC)
 * "It would probably just be easier to ask for scary transclusion to be turned on and only activated for the c: interwiki redirect." It has 'scary' in the name for a reason. I don't suspect the chances of getting this enabled on wikimedia websites is very high. —Th e DJ (talk • contribs) 08:27, 25 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Wikimedia Commons/POTD was based on copying data from Commons but it wasn't maintained and is marked historical. I updated Wikimedia Commons/POTD/data and it displays the correct image and caption right now, but with some red links to English Wikipedia pages instead of the blue links at commons:Template:Potd. PrimeHunter (talk) 11:05, 25 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Scary transclusion is infeasible on enwiki for performance reasons, if I recall correctly. There are three other ways you could conceivably do this, though:
 * Write a default gadget that pulls the data dynamically from Commons. This solution is quite neat, but given that only a few people would use it, it would be hard to justify the extra JavaScript code that every visitor to enwiki would have to download. Every extra bit of default JavaScript we use makes the site a little bit slower to load (although this is mitigated on repeat views by caching downloaded scripts).
 * Write a MediaWiki extension to pull the data dynamically from Commons. This solution doesn't require all our visitors to download extra code, but all MediaWiki extensions need to go through security review and performance review from WMF staff, and given that it would likely only be used by a few people, they might be reluctant to turn it on. It is also the most technically complex solution, in my opinion. Which leaves us with:
 * Write a bot to query Commons and save the data on enwiki when it changes. This has the disadvantage of not being in real time, and of the bot having to make a lot of edits for something that in an ideal world would require no edits, but is probably the best solution overall. The only approval needed would be a bot request (and if it edits in the bot's userspace, not even that, I think), and it wouldn't require all visitors to enwiki to download any extra code. — <span style="color: #194D00; font-family: Palatino, Times, serif">Mr. Stradivarius  ♪ talk ♪ 12:50, 25 August 2016 (UTC)


 * If the data was updated daily at Wikidata then other wikis could pull it with a template. For example,  pulls a file name from Q153 (ethanol) and displays it with Q153 as caption. PrimeHunter (talk) 14:10, 25 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Ah, yes, that's a very good idea. I'm not sure how feasible it would be for the Commons people to update their workflow to include Wikidata, but if they don't want to change how they do things Wikidata could always be updated by bot. — <span style="color: #194D00; font-family: Palatino, Times, serif">Mr. Stradivarius  ♪ talk ♪ 14:45, 25 August 2016 (UTC)

Pogoda.ru.net and ftp://dossier.ogp.noaa.gov
Many articles use these websites as references for climate (weather) data in weather box. However, they have been changed (".net" removed, "www." added, "pogoda" changed into "pogodaiklimat"; "dossier.ogp" changed to "ftp.atdd", "/pub" added after ".gov") and now all those URLs are broken.

Does someone know how to fix this? To run bot or AWB (to add arhiveurls that exist [archivedate is around May 2012 for Pogoda.ru.net, for example; noaa.gov cannot or at least has not been archived] or to modify urls so that they work, by bot), or to write to their webmasters? Why don't they keep old URL formation still valid as they should know that many websites use them as sources?


 * Pogoda.ru.net – URL change example: http://pogoda.ru.net/climate/22892.htm (old) → http://www.pogodaiklimat.ru/climate/22892.htm (new) i.e. pogoda.ru.net should be changed to www.pogodaiklimat.ru.
 * ftp://dossier.ogp.noaa.gov – URL change example: ftp://dossier.ogp.noaa.gov/GCOS/WMO-Normals/RA-VI/BH/14654.TXT (old) → ftp://ftp.atdd.noaa.gov/pub/GCOS/WMO-Normals/RA-VI/BH/14654.TXT (new) i.e. dossier.ogp.noaa.gov should be changed to ftp.atdd.noaa.gov/pub.

And interesting is that some URLs still does not exist, e.g. is Sarajevo (http://www.pogodaiklimat.ru/climate/14654.htm); after search in archive (http://www.pogodaiklimat.ru/archive.php), entering "14654" and getting "Sarajevo (Босния и Герцеговина)", and clicking "Климат города" – result is "По запрошенному Вами геопункту климатические данные отсутствуют.".--Obsuser (talk) 10:30, 25 August 2016 (UTC)


 * [EC] The best solution would be to i) make a template, so that when the URL changes, we just have one update to make (this would mean using markup like ) and ii) migrate the IDs to Wikidata, and have the template fetch them from there (this would mean using markup like  ). Once i) is done (and I'll get on that shortly), we can ask for a bot to convert existing uses, at WP:BOTREQ.  Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 10:57, 25 August 2016 (UTC)
 * One done: Pogda klimat, now used on Vyborg. Here is an . Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 11:31, 25 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Another: NOAA normals, now used on Seychelles. Here is . Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 11:54, 25 August 2016 (UTC)


 * Very good solutions.


 * Should template get renamed as weather is "pogoda" in Russian, not "pogda"? My suggestion is pogodaiklimat, according to the current domain name. Redirect pogda klimat can be deleted after changing to pogodaiklimat, and then we may create one or two redirects – pogoda and pogoda.ru.net, just in case.


 * Second question is why are pogodaiklimat WMO/ICAO values still not working if converted this way; can someone find another way to reformat old pogoda URL so e.g. 14654 (BH, Sarajevo) is working? I don't think that they deleted anything from website but I get "По запрошенному Вами геопункту климатические данные отсутствуют." for this particular WMO (WMO 22892 conversion for Vyborg worked, on the other hand)... --Obsuser (talk) 15:43, 25 August 2016 (UTC)

Lua error: too many expensive function calls
Edit requests are generating this error on Talk:Lena Dunham. There is one current request + error - the previous request made the same error when it was made. Can someone help to fix it? -- zzuuzz (talk) 20:04, 25 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Any Lua template is beyond my capabilities of fixing. Have you informed the template's maintainers, at Template talk:Edit semi-protected? Or it's module's maintainers, at Module talk:Protected edit request? -- Red rose64 (talk) 20:50, 25 August 2016 (UTC)
 * It's been difficult to know where to begin, but I'll try the module talk page if there's no luck here. -- zzuuzz (talk) 21:02, 25 August 2016 (UTC)


 * It's not primarily a Lua problem. The page is reaching the expensive function call limit.  The main issue is actually MonthlyArchive which is using about ~450 of the 500 call limit for the page.  That leaves little room for other templates and Lua functions, with the last edit semi-protected template just going over the limit and failing.  Dragons flight (talk) 21:08, 25 August 2016 (UTC)
 * 476 to be precise. Yikes. MonthlyLinks calls #ifexist 34 times for a year, and MonthlyArchive uses it on each year since 2003. 34×14 = 476. If 2017 is added the same way then it will make 510 calls and always break the limit so we will soon have to deal with it. Tests for 2001 and 2002 were removed in 2014 after discussion at Template talk:MonthlyArchive. MonthlyLinks makes one initial test for only the year and then three for each month, by name or number with or without leading 0 (month 10, 11, 12 skip the leading 0 test). 1 + 12×3 − 3 = 34. PrimeHunter (talk) 22:08, 25 August 2016 (UTC)
 * I fixed the immediate problem for Talk:Lena Dunham by adding a startyear parameter to the template which cuts down the number of calls to MonthlyLinks - Evad37 &#91;talk] 23:00, 25 August 2016 (UTC)
 * That's exactly what I was planning to do! PrimeHunter (talk) 23:07, 25 August 2016 (UTC)
 * I also added a monthformat parameter to both templates, which will further reduce the number of expensive calls. Now someone just needs to go through the transclusions, add the parameters with appropriate values, and we should be right until around 2040 - Evad37 &#91;talk] 23:47, 25 August 2016 (UTC)

Purge links require confirmation step


When clicking on a purge link, such as the one in my sandbox, or even adding  to the top of any page, forces me to confirm that I wish to purge the page. This notice is the same as if I had logged out of my account and had tried to purge the page. It does not however, require a confirmation when I use the link provided by the "Add a "Purge" option to the top of the page, which purges the page's cache" gadget, even though the url appears to be the same. -- The Voidwalker  Discuss 21:52, 21 August 2016 (UTC)
 * The action only looks like it's the same. What MediaWiki:Gadget-purgetab.js actually does is cancel the default action of the click, POST a request for the page with action=purge, then reload the page. I suppose it does this to avoid the confirmation step. The ability to skip the confirmation step is granted by the  right, which all registered users should have. It appears there's a bug with the right. The js was [ edited on 22 May 2016] . Was the bug anticipated? --Unready (talk) 23:28, 21 August 2016 (UTC)
 * The bug also affects purge tabs on, and I first noticed this at about 22:41 (UTC). -- Red rose64 (talk) 23:46, 21 August 2016 (UTC)
 * The gadget hasn't been updated on meta. --Unready (talk) 23:53, 21 August 2016 (UTC)
 * For those who are disinclined to read the Phab tickets, the change isn't a bug. It's intentional. The change to MediaWiki:Gadget-purgetab.js was indeed in anticipation of the change to action=purge. --Unready (talk) 09:55, 22 August 2016 (UTC)
 * I've also posted on mediawiki.org. --Unready (talk) 00:04, 22 August 2016 (UTC)
 * This is new behavior on all wiki's must have been bundled with a recent release (see screenshots above). — xaosflux  Talk 00:45, 22 August 2016 (UTC)


 * This looks like T88044 / T136375 all over again. I'll open a phab ticket. —  xaosflux  Talk 00:32, 22 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Opened as T143531. — xaosflux  Talk 00:41, 22 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Please comment on T143531 if you have an opinion if the prior behavior should be restored. — xaosflux  Talk 01:16, 22 August 2016 (UTC)
 * meta:User:Glaisher/autoPurge.js has been created to imitate the old behaviour. Is it something that would work as a default gadget? Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 08:20, 22 August 2016 (UTC)
 * I've suggested a slightly improved (IMO) version to preserve other query parameters and the fragment, if any. Something like one or the other will probably make it into MediaWiki:Common.js. In the meantime, people can put it in their personal common.js.
 * --Unready (talk) 12:49, 23 August 2016 (UTC)

I realize that the new confirmation step is slightly annoying, but this is a security fix. Previously, for purge actions, a GET request was being used to have the same effect of POST, and that's Not A Good Idea. So unless something is actively broken, rather than requiring an extra click, I put the odds of getting this reverted at basically zero. I understand that User:Krinkle updated the UTC clock gadget to skip the confirmation step here at enwiki, so you may want to consider that as an alternative to manually editing the URL. Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 09:27, 22 August 2016 (UTC)
 * That doesn't fix the pages with built-in purge links, such as Category:Pending AfC submissions. BethNaught (talk) 09:37, 22 August 2016 (UTC)
 * The "security" issue is that action=purge causes a database write for the page_touched column for that page, therefore embedding links with action=purge on foreign sites could somehow cause a problem. I pointed out in Phab that meta:User:Glaisher/autoPurge.js is probably going to be installed everywhere, so I'm unconvinced there's really any benefit to requiring a POST. --Unready (talk) 09:55, 22 August 2016 (UTC)
 * I came here to report it too and I would like the old version that is auto-purge to be restored and an extra confirmation is very very annoying. If you want the confirmation step atleast a parameter or function should be provided in all purge templates and gadgets. The parameter can say  if confirmation is not wanted. Please place a oppose (to keeping of this new update) comment by on Phabricator from my side if possible because I am not registered out there. I look forward to this issue being resloved. — Preceding unsigned comment added by VarunFEB2003 (talk • contribs)
 * From what I've gathered from the Phab tasks, making you click an extra button isn't actually the goal, so scripts that hide that step from a user aren't necessarily a problem. The goal is to stop using GET to achieve a POST result.  If that idea doesn't make your skin crawl, then think "when I'm just reading a page, the computer should not be editing the database".
 * Varun, you have an account at . Just click the login button in the top right, and look for the button at the bottom of the login screen with the [{yellow sunflower}] logo that says "Login or Register – MediaWiki" (underneath the big LDAP username/password fields – practically "hidden in plain view").  However, please don't post !votes there.  Phabricator is a place for technical work, not for determining user consensus.  (That happens here on wiki, and if it's relevant, then a link to the on-wiki discussion will get posted in the Phab task).  Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 14:45, 22 August 2016 (UTC)


 * Hi - this is mostly of the "annoying" variety - though it is the same behavior of rolling out changes without reviewing the use cases that was caused when this same change was made for the rollback action.  The overall impact is certainly less, but so long as "purging" is something that is needed to get the the current version presented to readers available  - I don't expect the need for the purge ability to go away soon. —  xaosflux  Talk 14:56, 22 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Just to be extra-clear: nobody's interested in taking away the purge function.  Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 20:09, 22 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Somehow I didn't get a ping (Why?) Now  what I am going to tell you is something you might have forgotten. Do you often come across Update/Refresh links. We often use them instead of 'purge' to not directly show new users because it is bound they will get confused because purge is a new term for them. The extra step creates more confusion for new users as it asks you - "Do you wish to purge this page" which makes them feel as if they are going to perform a big step. Purge button has an update link that was specifically designed so that new users don't get confused See its talk page. If the code given above ↑ is telling that this step is going to be removed then forget this request of mine. I look forward to this issue being resolved and that silly confirmation be removed. What harm can a direct purge even do? GET to achieve a POST result I didn't get this!  Varun  FEB2003   I am Offline 13:31, 23 August 2016 (UTC)
 * You didn't get a notification because in, didn't add a new post, they modified an existing line.
 * HTTP GET and HTTP POST are the two principal methods of submitting a query to a web server. The main difference is that with GET, you put all the parameters (name=value pairs, separated by ampersands) into the URL as a query string. When you visit a page like https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Village_pump_(technical)&action=history this is a GET request and the query string is  which has two parameters. POST does not use a query string, it sends all the data in one big block. When you edit a Wikipedia page and click, this sends a POST request. -- Red rose64 (talk) 17:12, 23 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Sounds gibberish for a technically illiterate(almost) like me! I am just waiting when this problem will be resolved. Most of the wikipedians are against it!  Varun FEB2003   I am Offline 11:18, 24 August 2016 (UTC)
 * You asked why you didn't get a notification, so I told you. You said "GET to achieve a POST result I didn't get this" so I gave information on HTTP GET and HTTP POST. -- Red rose64 (talk) 11:44, 24 August 2016 (UTC)

Ok Varun FEB2003   I am Offline 11:52, 24 August 2016 (UTC)
 * When are the changes being made to the global js?  Varun FEB2003   I am Offline 14:52, 24 August 2016 (UTC)
 * I don't know if it will be done. MediaWiki:Common.js is normally handled by local admins, so I am not involved in scheduling anything there.  Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 07:55, 26 August 2016 (UTC)

Entries showing up in deletion log
Hi, this is quite new... apparently deletion entries have started showing up in my deletion log despite not being a sysop. The operation was a simple move over 1-revision valid redirect. Was it re-implemented recently? — Andy W. ( talk  · ctb) 21:39, 25 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Yes, see —Th e DJ (talk • contribs) 22:13, 25 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Right, MediaWiki 1.28/wmf.16 was installed here today. The linked page should have contained a changelog but it's currently missing. Compare to MediaWiki 1.28/wmf.15 which displays MediaWiki 1.28/wmf.15/Changelog, while MediaWiki 1.28/wmf.16/Changelog hasn't been created. PrimeHunter (talk) 22:29, 25 August 2016 (UTC)
 * There's something else related to this as well. For moves over redirects since 9 October 2013, the overridden redirect still appears with just the edit summary when viewing the contribs in mobile with an offset time near the original creation of the overridden redirect. Compare with . The overridden redirect is included in the former (from User:Jianhui67/sandbox to User:Jianhui67/sandbox/Gwendolyn Lee under 8 October 2013 next to 12:31), but not in the latter (from Red Tour to The Red Tour). These redirects were overridden in the moves by Jianhui67 (the same as the original creator of the overridden redirect) at 07:12, 9 October 2013 and Tbhotch at 05:59, 9 October 2013, respectively. Now overridden redirects no longer appear for moves over redirects done today, due to the above change. We should probably run deleteOrphanedRevisions.php (which might have last ran on 9 October 2013) so that overridden redirects will not be shown when viewing the contribs in mobile again. GeoffreyT2000 (talk) 01:54, 26 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Getting a closer offset: mobile vs desktop. Special:MobileDiff/576280881 shows up (incorrectly) only in Mobile view, whereas it's hidden in Desktop. Special:Diff/576290491 and Special:MobileDiff/576290491 works fine in both. Does this have a Phab ticket attached? — Andy W. ( talk  · ctb) 03:31, 26 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Just got here to ask about this. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 08:39, 26 August 2016 (UTC)