Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)/Archive 197

Tech News: 2022-17
 Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Recent changes
 * On many wikis (group 1), the software to play videos and audio files on pages has now changed. The old player has been removed. Some audio players will become wider after this change. The new player has been a beta feature for over four years.

Changes later this week
 * Octicons-sync.svg The new version of MediaWiki will be on test wikis and MediaWiki.org from . It will be on non-Wikipedia wikis and some Wikipedias from . It will be on all wikis from (calendar).
 * Octicons-sync.svg Some wikis will be in read-only for a few minutes because of a switch of their main database. It will be performed on at 07:00 UTC (targeted wikis).
 * Some very old browsers and operating systems are no longer supported. Some things on the wikis might look weird or not work in very old browsers like Internet Explorer 9 or 10, Android 4, or Firefox 38 or older.

Tech news prepared by Tech News writers and posted by bot • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe. 

22:53, 25 April 2022 (UTC)

Problem with page moves
Hey, folks,

I'm not sure what is up but I've noticed lately that when I'm moving an article, even if I have Move talk page box checked off, the Talk page isn't moved along with the article. Most recently, an editor noticed and tagged the Talk page to be moved separately. I'd say that this has happened 6 or 7 times over the past week but I can't figure when it happens or why it happens. It's not every time, I'd say it happens about 25% of the time that I move a page with a talk page. Any ideas what might be going on? Liz Read! Talk! 03:19, 25 April 2022 (UTC)
 * In one of the last move log entries before your message here, both the article KJR-FM and its talk page required admin assistance to move them due to edits that were in the way. If you move an article but the talk page move is blocked like this, the talk page does not get moved along with the article automatically (and there's an easy-to-miss message near the end of the "move succeeded" page saying that the talk page move failed). Graham 87  08:29, 25 April 2022 (UTC)
 * I love that post. Here we have, who totally relies on screen-reader software, telling the sighted people that a message is easy-to-miss . I often wonder how much low-relevance yada yada that Graham has to put up with before hearing the things that really matter. I admit that I tune out of background noise and may miss things I should be hearing. -- Red rose64 &#x1f339; (talk) 20:43, 25 April 2022 (UTC)
 * I think I've said something like this before, but if it weren't for the ability to cut off a screen reader's speech at any time, Wikipedia (and the web/computing in general) would be almost unusable for screen reader users. Graham 87 01:26, 26 April 2022 (UTC)

Watchlist notifications still appear after being dismissed
I don't know if this is intentional, but I seem to keep getting the same notifications appear on my watchlist after dismissing the notification ... multiple times. For example, at the present time, there is a notification that there is an WP:RFA in progress and a notification for the most recent issue of the Signpost. However, after I dismiss these notifications, they stay dismissed until I log out and log back in ... then they reappear. If I recall, after a notification is dismissed, it stays dismissed, even after logging out and logging in. Is this not/no longer the case? Steel1943 (talk) 19:01, 26 April 2022 (UTC)


 * @Steel1943 the dismissing part is dependent on a client-side cookie (more technically a local storage object). So for example if you are using a private browsing session, it won't be maintained. — xaosflux  Talk 19:10, 26 April 2022 (UTC)

How to write multiple OR in templates?
Hi, I want to create a template like this. If you didn't understand, I will provide a specific example. Thanks! ⇒ Aram  Talk  21:01, 26 April 2022 (UTC)
 * @Aram, &#8213;  Qwerfjkl  talk  21:10, 26 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Or a casual . --Izno (talk) 21:11, 26 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Really amazing and helpful! Thank you both! ⇒ Aram  Talk  21:28, 26 April 2022 (UTC)
 * mw:Help:Extension:ParserFunctions is certainly the best method if this is your real situation.
 * . That's all. PrimeHunter (talk) 22:14, 26 April 2022 (UTC)

Red links in talk pages
I have just closed an RM at Talk:Ukrainian anti-Soviet armed resistance and noticed the links to its own article page are red, like in "moved to Ukrainian anti-Soviet armed resistance". The source seems to show just a regular link. Any idea what could be the issue? Vpab15 (talk) 22:41, 27 April 2022 (UTC)
 * A WP:PURGE seemed to have fixed it. Suffusion of Yellow (talk) 22:55, 27 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Great, thanks a lot! Vpab15 (talk) 23:06, 27 April 2022 (UTC)

Is there a Javascript date library we can load?
I was using jQuery UI's date picker to format date strings, but it appears that this has been deprecated now, as I saw the message  in my Javascript console, but I couldn't find any date-related objects in OOUI. I know I can do it myself but I find it annoying to have to reinvent the wheel. Thanks in advance. — howcheng  {chat} 04:39, 28 April 2022 (UTC)
 * There are mw.widgets.DateInputWidget and mw.widgets.datetime.DateTimeInputWidget. Nardog (talk) 04:45, 28 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Thanks, but I wasn't looking for UI widgets. DateTimeFormatter looked a little more promising but I can't quite figure out how to use it. I just went and did it the vanilla JS way. — howcheng  {chat} 05:09, 28 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Moment is shipped with core so you can use it from ResourceLoader. Nardog (talk) 05:24, 28 April 2022 (UTC)
 * MediaWiki is allready moving away from Moment, see T146798. Previous uses where replaced with Date.toLocaleString or an formatted date from the API. Anyway, just so you know, MediaWiki is eventually also going to go away from OOUI in several years time, to Vue.js, codex is the name of the WMF implementation of it.--Snævar (talk) 05:42, 28 April 2022 (UTC)
 * (Yay, someone saw the deprecation notice and did something about it!) Izno (talk) 05:29, 28 April 2022 (UTC)
 * It was pretty lucky. I noticed my script stopped working due to changes in the API so I had to fix it, and while debugging I saw the console logs. — howcheng  {chat} 07:37, 28 April 2022 (UTC)

Watchlist, email notifications
If you have email notifications for pages on your watchlist enabled then you receive emails that start  I'm dealing with a VTRS enquiry where someone wishes to suggest a change to the wording, but I don't know where to point them to initiate such a discussion. Is the notification content hosted here or on mediawiki? Nthep (talk) 10:38, 28 April 2022 (UTC)


 * @Nthep I think that is from one of these messages. We are unlikely to localize these without good reason though. If there is something that would make it better for everyone that uses any mediawiki installation, they can file a request at phab. — xaosflux  Talk 12:49, 28 April 2022 (UTC)
 * @Xaosflux it's MediaWiki:Enotif body intro changed, the correspondent considers "was changed on" to be more grammatically correct than "has been changed on". Depending on how soon after the event you see the notification (e.g. next day) then they may have a point. Nthep (talk) 13:26, 28 April 2022 (UTC)
 * @Nthep ok, so since that is a semantic change, it should be done upstream (if it is warranted) - so they should file a phab feature request. They will need to register an account (here on Wikipedia is fine) then attach it to phabricator, then use this form. It may or not be accepted by the developers, but if so we will get the new verbiage here, and it will be available for translation on every project. I don't think we should localize this for only users with English as their primary language, and only on the English Wikipedia (then you would get different messages from other projects you also edit on). They certainly could start a discussion here and try to form a consensus for a local override if they really wanted to. — xaosflux  Talk 13:42, 28 April 2022 (UTC)

Move templates to bottom
Here Category:Tor (anonymity network) we have 2 large infoboxen templates that cover the actual content of the category. Can we move those to the bottom or rather should they just be removed? --Palosirkka (talk) 13:35, 28 April 2022 (UTC)
 * What do you mean they "cover the actual content of the category"? On the desktop site the navboxes are collapsed, and even if they're not because you're on the mobile site or have turned JavaScript off or for some other reason, you can just scroll down, can't you? Nardog (talk) 13:43, 28 April 2022 (UTC)
 * @Palosirkka those should be "collapsed" if they are not, make sure you have javascript enabled. As for your question though, it is not currently possible to put templates below the category listing.  If this was an article or project page, we could - but the category page type doesn't support that format. —  xaosflux  Talk 13:44, 28 April 2022 (UTC)
 * I recommend removing these navboxes from the category page. It is quite uncommon to have them there, and their contents should duplicate the articles listed on the category page if the navboxes and categories are designed and assigned well. – Jonesey95 (talk) 13:59, 28 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Thank you all. I forget things look different with JavaScript (which I disable for security and privacy). I'll go ahead and remove them per Jonesey95. --Palosirkka (talk) 14:22, 28 April 2022 (UTC)

If IP Template
Transcluding the template if IP shows the result "You are not logged in" even though I am logged in.

Some specifications:
 * I use Chrome 100.0.4896.127 stable on Windows 10 21H2. Using a Chromebook running on version 100 didn't change anything. Changing to Firefox, whether on Windows or on a virtual machine, didn't change anything.
 * I use MVPS HOSTS for my hosts file to block advertising domains. Again, using a Chromebook or Firefox in a virtual machine, whose hosts files don't have anything, didn't work.
 * I use uBlock Origin 1.42.4 to block any missing trackers. Disabling uBlock didn't change anything.
 * Wikipedia and Wikimedia are both whitelisted. All traffic from the Wikimedia Foundation is whitelisted.


 * I use Vector 2022 as my skin. Changing to Vector 2010 didn't affect anything.
 * I'm a rollbacker and pending changes reviewer on enwiki. Other users on enwiki who have more permissions saw the template correctly.
 * I don't have an additional account on Wikimedia per policy.
 * I don't have two-factor authentication available in my account because I haven't sent a request at Meta.


 * I have Hotcat, Lupin, ProveIt, Twinkle, wide-vector-2022, and WikEd. Disabling all of them did not work.
 * The Chinese version of the template works.

Hopefully someone can help me with this.

— B. L. I. R. 04:35, 28 April 2022 (UTC)
 * It uses code in MediaWiki:Group-user.css. What do you see here: You are not logged in . I see nothing. User:BeywheelzLetItRip/common.css should have CSS but it has wikitext. Maybe it contains something that messes up your other CSS loading. Try blanking it. If you want to transclude wikitext on your user page then I strongly recommend you don't place it in a CSS page. PrimeHunter (talk) 08:59, 28 April 2022 (UTC)
 * And if you do want to use that "css transclusion hack" don't do it on that page, use something like User:Username/fakecsspage.css — xaosflux  Talk 10:26, 28 April 2022 (UTC)
 * I moved wikitext to a new stylesheet here and removed everything from the common.css file. It works now. — B. L. I.</b> <b style="color:#808">R.</b> 10:56, 28 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Wikitext in a .css page is still very confusing and may cause trouble but at least it's not processed as CSS in your new fake css page. xaosflux wasn't suggesting to actually use a new .css page but merely saying it wouldn't be as bad as using common.css. PrimeHunter (talk) 11:35, 28 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Understandable, the protection policy for user pages does not say what the implications will be for users who are using transcluded CSS files on their user pages. It's only when a user attempts to create and/or edit a stylesheet that a warning appears. — <b style="color:#29F">B.</b> <b style="color:red">L.</b> <b style="color:#080">I.</b> <b style="color:#808">R.</b> 12:30, 28 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Agree, it's not "recommended" - it just won't also break other things. Base userpages are already semi-protected by an edit filter as well. — xaosflux  Talk 12:51, 28 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Got it, thanks a lot for the help and for clearing the confusion up! I'll do my best not to break functionality via CSS. — <b style="color:#29F">B.</b> <b style="color:red">L.</b> <b style="color:#080">I.</b> <b style="color:#808">R.</b> 15:34, 28 April 2022 (UTC)

Watchlist problems, some revisions that I go thru come back as unread, and other related matters
I have the watchlist set to show every revision of each article on my list displayed in bold, compared to the last time I checked the watchlist. I will go thru each revision (diff) in one article, clicking "next edit" till I get to the most recent revision of the article. I will then return to the watchlist and refresh to see all revisions from the article I visited as read (non-bold). Sometime later, though, I will notice on another refresh that some of the most recent revisions of the same article will be marked unread again. There's also times when I will only check some of the revisions of an article, and then check the watchlist to see that all of the revisions are marked read, when I didn't go thru all of them. What is going on?

I just cleared all cookies to all Wikipedia sites a few minutes ago, and the problem is still happening (for those of you suggesting that I clear cookies). MPFitz1968 (talk) 19:11, 28 April 2022 (UTC)
 * This is a recurring problem. It is tracked in . I haven't noticed it for a while, but it just started happening again to me about two days ago. – Jonesey95 (talk) 19:25, 28 April 2022 (UTC)

Is there any way to make language tag markup less breakable?
I've been mulling over this for a while now, but I haven't the technical knowledge to know what could be done. I add a lot of language tags to Wikipedia – think lang, transliteration and the like – and the problem is that I'll go through an article, I'll mark up all non-English text with the correct template, and then editors adding new content, even content that features words marked up throughout, commonly just slap some italic markup either side and call it a day.

I know that consistency of edits is a problem, and that obviously some templates are going to be missed here and there. But these are articles with a of foreign-language text, articles where terminology is unavoidable and where that terminology is unavoidably not English. I've tried to inform editors here and there about language tagging, but that's no guarantee that they'll remember, and having to keep very large articles on my watchlist in the event that one or two language tags need adding in the future has resulted in my watchlist ballooning to 568 articles. And the articles I'm focusing on are pretty much Japanese arts and culture articles.

I don't think this can be avoided by just informing enough editors about language tagging. There's too many articles, and I'm wondering if there's something technical that could be done about this. At the end of the day, it's consistent markup vital to accessibility that can be easily broken by unwitting editors. I figured I'd ask here, if nothing else.--Ineffablebookkeeper (talk) (&#123;&#123;ping&#125;&#125; me!) 17:53, 28 April 2022 (UTC)


 * "Is there a way to get people to do things they don't know they should do?" can unfortunately not be answered positively, especially since the addition of italics can be for non-language related reasons (ship, species, and work names prominently). We could theoretically ban the use of  and ensure there are sufficient templates to cover the use cases for italics, but I don't anticipate that being favored by the general populace. We could add an edit notice for every page of interest, but that extends into the thousands or hundreds of thousands of pages where an English-foreign term is used.
 * Really the only thing you can do is tell people when you see it. Part of the note can be "if you see someone do it like you used to, let them know to change what they're doing too". Izno (talk) 19:31, 28 April 2022 (UTC)

Anyone else experiencing "reply" adding nowiki to pings? or inability to preview
It's a pain. As is the occasional default to Visual with the inability to preview. Doug Weller talk 11:07, 27 April 2022 (UTC)

PAGE ]]) 15:39, 27 April 2022 (UTC)
 * If you use the Ping template in Visual it will nowiki it. Use the [[File:OOUI icon userAdd-ltr.svg]] button instead. I personally haven't experienced it defaulting to visual or refusing to preview. --Ahecht ([[User talk:Ahecht|<span style="color:#FFF;background:#04A;display:inline-block;padding:1px;vertical-align:-.3em;font:bold 50%/1 sans-serif;text-align:center">TALK
 * Thanks. I'll keep an eye on it more carefully to see if it goes to visual again. Doug Weller  talk 15:44, 27 April 2022 (UTC)
 * In Visual mode, as you type {{ you should see a "Wikitext markup detected" notification at the top-right, warning you that you're using the visual editor. Note also you can ping in both visual and wikitext mode by typing . &mdash; MusikAnimal  {{sup| talk }}  16:49, 27 April 2022 (UTC)
 * I didn’t know that, thanks. Doug Weller  talk 17:35, 27 April 2022 (UTC)
 * {{ping|Ahecht}} it works fine for me - I just used the ping template on you here. — xaosflux  {{sup| Talk }} 15:58, 27 April 2022 (UTC)
 * OK, think I was able to replicate the workflow that causes this. (a) Use reply tool (b) use the Visual Editor Mode (c) Use wikitext like a template (d) Ignore the toast that wikitext isn't supported in this mode. —  xaosflux  {{sup| Talk }} 09:55, 28 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Probably. I presume "toast" means text? Doug Weller  talk 09:57, 28 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Sorry, jargony. "Toast" is something that pops up :) If you try to put markup in replytool visual mode, you should get a pop-up notification warning you about it. —  xaosflux  {{sup| Talk }} 12:55, 28 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Lol! Of course! Doug Weller  talk 13:39, 28 April 2022 (UTC)
 * The ability to use templates in the visual mode depends on some background work. The software would need to be able to wrap a complex comment in some kind of code to indicate that this whole thing belonged in the "list" (the single item beginning with the  ).  Otherwise, if someone adds, say, an infobox, they'll get a mess.  Right now, you'd get something like this:
 * But you want something like this:
 * (which would display as an infobox, not as a bunch of broken wikitext). Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 20:03, 28 April 2022 (UTC)
 * But you want something like this:
 * (which would display as an infobox, not as a bunch of broken wikitext). Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 20:03, 28 April 2022 (UTC)
 * But you want something like this:
 * (which would display as an infobox, not as a bunch of broken wikitext). Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 20:03, 28 April 2022 (UTC)
 * (which would display as an infobox, not as a bunch of broken wikitext). Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 20:03, 28 April 2022 (UTC)
 * (which would display as an infobox, not as a bunch of broken wikitext). Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 20:03, 28 April 2022 (UTC)
 * (which would display as an infobox, not as a bunch of broken wikitext). Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 20:03, 28 April 2022 (UTC)
 * (which would display as an infobox, not as a bunch of broken wikitext). Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 20:03, 28 April 2022 (UTC)
 * (which would display as an infobox, not as a bunch of broken wikitext). Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 20:03, 28 April 2022 (UTC)
 * (which would display as an infobox, not as a bunch of broken wikitext). Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 20:03, 28 April 2022 (UTC)

Edge case actions with page titles
Hello! Is there any way we can do the following actions:


 * 1) Change a page's title while creating it? (Example: I noticed I had a typo in my new page's title but the content is correct.)
 * 2) Search for a page's title while being in  https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?search=....  (the page you get the search results when not jumping immediately to a page after searching for its title in the search box) and if it exists, immediately jump to it, not have it load up as a title there first and then have to click on it to open it. - Klein Muçi (talk) 11:11, 27 April 2022 (UTC)
 * There is no Wikipedia feature but it can be done in seconds with a Windows browser. Use in the edit area to mark everything and  to copy it to the clipboard. Manually change the page name in the url and insert the copy with
 * Search pages also have the normal search field. You would have to use that as far as I know. PrimeHunter (talk) 11:34, 27 April 2022 (UTC)
 * @PrimeHunter, thank you for your answers! In regard to 1, changing the title in the URL is better than what I do, that is, creating a new page from scratch after copy-pasting the content. As for 2, that's what I'm referring to, the search field. If you search something there while being in the search page and the title you're searching for comes as a suggestion in it there is no way to just straight up to that page like when normally using the search field in, let's say, the main page, is there? (If my explanation is still not good enough, I can provide a specific example.) - Klein Muçi (talk) 11:51, 27 April 2022 (UTC)
 * The page name can be clicked with right mouse and then open[ed] in new tab just like any other links. <span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,red,yellow,cyan);color:transparent;background-clip:text;-webkit-background-clip:text">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh 12:05, 27 April 2022 (UTC)
 * @NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh, eh. I was hoping to not do that but instead have it behave the same as when you normally search something in the search box, that is immediately "jump", open the wanted title in the same tab. Looks like there is no way to do that. Thank you anyway! :) - Klein Muçi (talk) 12:11, 27 April 2022 (UTC)
 * My browser's right-click menu lets me search for text I have highlighted, opening a new tab. It only offers my default search engine, but that could be set to Wikipedia.  A third-party "Search with Wikipedia" add-on for Firefox adds Wikipedia search to the right-click menu; other browsers may have similar extensions.  Certes (talk) 13:35, 27 April 2022 (UTC)
 * I mean that Special:Search has two search fields, the normal search field on every page (the position depends on your skin) and the bigger field on search pages. As far as I know, only the normal search field has a feature to go directly to a page. Only the bigger field is prefilled with your previous search so it's inconvenient to use the normal field. PrimeHunter (talk) 12:08, 27 April 2022 (UTC)
 * @PrimeHunter, oh... Funnily enough I hadn't been aware that there were 2 search fields which behaved differently. Any idea why does the "bigger field" behave like it does? What benefits are supposed to be had from that behavior, assuming that is intended? My first instinct is to ask "why can't we make both fields behave the same" but I'm assuming that change is deliberate. - Klein Muçi (talk) 12:14, 27 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Many users don't know how to avoid the Go feature in the normal search field when they want to. The search page helps. PrimeHunter (talk) 18:18, 27 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Interesting... To my everyday usage it feels like an extra step which only makes my usage feel more clunkier but I can see the need for it now. Thank you! - Klein Muçi (talk) 01:10, 28 April 2022 (UTC)
 * MonoBook has separate "Go" and "Search" buttons. Vector's normal search box defaults to "Go", and the search box on Special:Search defaults to "Search". Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 20:05, 28 April 2022 (UTC)

No cursor in the reply tool
Hi, I don't know if it's quite yet Thursday on the wiki, but I don't have a cursor in the reply tool. It's behaving perfectly normal, I just can't visibly see it. I've purged my cache, and tried a bunch of pages, but it's not there. The only code I've messed with in the past day was to DISABLE two scripts on my globaljs, so i doubt that affected me. Happy Editing-- IAm Chaos  04:01, 28 April 2022 (UTC)


 * are you in visual editor mode or wikitext mode? If you start typing does it appear (i.e. is it just against the left border)? — xaosflux  Talk 09:53, 28 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Hi, I am in source mode, and no it is still invisible when typing. I can tell where it is, because I can still type and move it with arrow keys and type between old text, it just doesnt visually appear. It's only in the reply tool, works in regular editing and in the quickedit box (I dont remember if quickedit is a script or gadget or what). Happy Editing-- IAm Chaos  09:57, 28 April 2022 (UTC)
 * This is a reply tool in visual mode. I mean to me it looks the same as source mode (without a preview), and there is still no cursor. Happy Editing-- IAm Chaos  09:59, 28 April 2022 (UTC)
 * @IAmChaos could you try using a different web browser to see if it is a browser-specific problem? — xaosflux  Talk 10:27, 28 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Hey, So it's working on my alt on Chrome (there is a cursor). My main is on unmodified Safari 15.3. Unfortunately with a dead phone, I can't try my main on Chrome, my apologies.  IAm Chaos (alt acct - please ping my main) 10:31, 28 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Back on my main, I Did this to my commonjs, and it's still invisible after another cache clear. Happy Editing-- IAm Chaos  10:35, 28 April 2022 (UTC)
 * To rule out scripts, you could try to load this page in safe mode. Are you saying right now you only see this problem in Safari? — xaosflux  Talk 12:52, 28 April 2022 (UTC)
 * In safemode now (Safari), and yes it is only safari that I see this issue. (including safemode) Happy Editing-- IAm Chaos  12:56, 28 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Can you reproduce this in the visual editor? Try https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Whatamidoing_(WMF)/sandbox?veaction=edit for the visual editor.   Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 20:15, 28 April 2022 (UTC)

Navigation popups - coder needed
Is anyone able and wiling to add a feature or two to the Navigation popups gadget, please?

Specifically (and in order of my reference, FWIW) those described at:


 * Wikipedia talk:Tools/Navigation popups/Archive 10
 * Wikipedia talk:Tools/Navigation popups/Archive 11
 * Wikipedia talk:Tools/Navigation popups/Archive 9

-- Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 12:13, 27 April 2022 (UTC)
 * You may check or file this at https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/tag/navigation-popups-gadget/ instead where feature requests for that gadget are handled. Malyacko (talk) 20:36, 27 April 2022 (UTC)
 * I have been told elsewhere (and some time ago) "This tool is not under active development ... If you want a feature, you will have to find someone willing to program it.". The Patrolling request has been on Phabricator since June 2019, with no substantive responses, other than support. The Wikidata request has been there since January 2020, with zero responses. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 20:19, 28 April 2022 (UTC)

Lighten up
I've noticed some experienced contributors are averse to the use of tables in articles. They claim tables are "too heavy" or "too distracting". This seems very strange to me. I think tables are very useful and they should be used whenever they work better than plain text. But I have to admit the tables in Wikipedia are visually heavier set than I would prefer. This may have something to do with the aversion some contributors feel. In his books, Edward Tufte advises using only the minimum amount of "data ink". As I interpret it, the absolute minimum of data ink in a table would be something like a very thin border of very light gray and no background color at all. But in Wikipedia, the tables are much much darker than this. Would it be possible to lighten up the default color of all tables in Wikipedia? I believe this could be achieved by adjusting two values in the CSS code that governs all tables. What would be the correct procedure for this? --Inehmo (talk) 19:40, 27 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Tables should be used for tabular data, not for anything that subjectively "works better". Feel free to provide specific examples including full links. Thanks, --Malyacko (talk) 20:34, 27 April 2022 (UTC)
 * I created a few examples of what I had in mind. Here: https://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%A4ytt%C3%A4j%C3%A4:Inehmo/Hiekkalaatikko – Inehmo (talk) 22:53, 27 April 2022 (UTC)
 * The standard  class is deliberately "light" with minimal background colors. Additional colors are added most often by fans of the particular page topic. (Sports is the worst issue in this regard.) There's only so much we can do about it; right now our minimum limit is basically at the point of WP:ACCESS color contrast requirements which we enforce by a template system. Izno (talk) 21:07, 27 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Accessibility is certainly a compelling reason. But a lighter background color would increase the contrast with text and thereby improve the situation. – Inehmo (talk) 05:07, 28 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Maybe I can be considered one of those editors. Even though not dealing that much with articles per se, after nearly 9 years of contributing around I'm still averse of tables in Wikipedia. Their overall usage feels very, very clunky technically vise and the visual aspect is generally unappealing and/or bland. In my decade of contributions I've only been forced to work "intensively" with tables only twice. One time I had to translate the contents of a table and it took me literal days to be able to preserve the original table structure without messing it while translating. The other time was this, a task which I couldn't accomplish even after asking multiple users for help. - Klein Muçi (talk) 01:06, 28 April 2022 (UTC)
 * I agree with you about tables being challenging to edit and modify in wikitext view. I don't use the beta Visual Editor, but I understand that it makes table editing a lot easier. – Jonesey95 (talk) 04:03, 28 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Yes, that is the more fundamental issue. I have some experience with many kinds of tables all around the web and I fully agree: tables are quite impossible in wikitext format. Their current implementation requires a thorough rethinking. Luckily, the Visual Editor is very capable. It is a great relief, if not a complete solution to the problem. – Inehmo (talk) 05:27, 28 April 2022 (UTC)
 * I hope I won't forget this topic until the new community wishlist happens. - Klein Muçi (talk) 13:06, 28 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Hey @Klein Muçi, you can make a note in Community Wishlist Survey/Sandbox :) SGrabarczuk (WMF) (talk) 20:14, 28 April 2022 (UTC)
 * @SGrabarczuk (WMF), thank you! Just did. - Klein Muçi (talk) 02:06, 29 April 2022 (UTC)
 * In the world of Featured/Good content, tables are a must, it seems, an indication of superior quality, I guess. Glad to see there are others who are table-adverse. They are irksome to read when long lines are stuffed into boxes with lots of line wraps - it seems tidy, except for those who consume the information. Bulleted lists are often better as you have the space and freedom to build out without being confined to tidy little boxes for the sake of signaling a quality production. -- Green  C  05:36, 28 April 2022 (UTC)

ProtectedTitles
While working with Special:ProtectedTitles I saw that there are not a lot of things you can do at that page.

Do you think it would be beneficial to add the following options:


 * 1) Allow ordering by level of protection and/or ending date of protection;
 * 2) Show links beside entries for changing protection level ("similar" to what we get in Special:BrokenRedirects);
 * 3) Maybe show the protection summary provided on each entry somewhere (maybe when hovering over them?)

All what I said above would be helpful in my admin work at SqWiki but I was wondering how would other admins here feel about those. - Klein Muçi (talk) 11:16, 25 April 2022 (UTC)
 * # 1 may be expensive (ORDER BY outputs on huge outputs can be) - you can already filter results by namespace and level, perhaps a single additional filter of 'indefinite protections only' (like on Special:ProtectedPages) would work? — xaosflux  Talk 13:49, 25 April 2022 (UTC)
 * # 2 is a "meh" for me, you can do this client-side several ways already, it is already available in things like navpopups's on-hover menu — xaosflux  Talk 13:45, 25 April 2022 (UTC)
 * # 3 above is T65318. — xaosflux  Talk 13:44, 25 April 2022 (UTC)
 * I know nothing of query limits. If ordering is expensive, I believe enhancing ProtectedTitles to have the same interface as ProtectedPages would probably be enough. That idea is also entertained in the task you mentioned.
 * As for the change protection link, navpop is what I'm currently using for that as well. I just think that special pages themselves in general should have links that serve their main functions instead of acting just as lists. - Klein Muçi (talk) 16:03, 25 April 2022 (UTC)
 * I wonder what you actually need. Would a filter work (e.g., show full protection only, indef only, expiration date in the next week)?  Maybe if you can tell us more about how you would use that information, we could come up with some options that aren't potentially expensive and would do what you need. Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 17:52, 25 April 2022 (UTC)
 * @Whatamidoing (WMF), given that indefinite protection is the default one, a lot of our admins use only that for their title protections no matter what the case. Currently I'm the only active admin for many months now. There are many cases where the protection shouldn't be indefinite, the most typical of which are the cases where the title is good on its own but it has been protected nonetheless because its content was being abused, for example "Albania's economy", with content such as: AAAAAAAAAAAhahahaha
 * So basically I'm reviewing the whole entries which are protected indefinitely and it felt a bit frustrating that I couldn't do much from that special page beside sorting by namespace and type of protection. - Klein Muçi (talk) 01:42, 26 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Reviewing is going to be slow this way. Would it help prevent this problem if the default was changed?  I suspect that it's just a config change. Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 19:38, 28 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Hmm... Maybe that would be a good idea. - Klein Muçi (talk) 02:10, 29 April 2022 (UTC)

Changing the position of DISPLAYTITLE creates an ugly gap, how to avoid it?
In this edit I tried to bring the template further up in the article as per MOS:LAYOUT, but as a user pointed out (and you can see it in the diff link preview), it creates an ugly gap between the title and the main content of the article. Why does this happen? <span style="font-family: Fira Code, Fira Mono, JetBrains Mono, Noto Mono, Courier New, monospace">0xDEADBEEF (T C) 15:56, 29 April 2022 (UTC)


 * and Short description both creates no visible wikitext, so their lines are treated as blank ones. Try placing them on the same line? <span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,red,yellow,cyan);color:transparent;background-clip:text;-webkit-background-clip:text">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh 16:16, 29 April 2022 (UTC)
 * ^ should work. Izno (talk) 19:38, 29 April 2022 (UTC)
 * There is a problem with the coding. DISPLAYTITLE creates an extra blank row while Short description doesn't. If we place DISPLAYTITLE under Short description as per WP:LAYOUT, this blank row will appear. If we delete Short description or place Short description under DISPLAYTITLE, the extra blank row will disappear. The only way to comply with the template order stated in WP:LAYOUT while avoiding that extra blank row is placing both Short description and DISPLAYTITLE on the same line, but it makes the codes look messy, I don't like it. 2001:8003:9008:1301:1516:F3EF:6434:339B (talk) 04:23, 30 April 2022 (UTC)

TemplateStyles inside a wikilink
If you preview a page with nothing but Bar

Bar you get which appears like
 * Bar
 * Bar

If you preview Bar

Bar you get which appears like
 * <q style="font-family: Georgia, 'DejaVu Serif', serif; color: #008560; quotes: none;">Bar
 * <q style="font-family: Georgia, 'DejaVu Serif', serif; color: #008560; quotes: none;">Bar

Naturally I want to use tq inside the link so the text turns green, but I can't do that unless the same TemplateStyles is called earlier on the page outside a link. Is this a bug or a feature? Has it always been this way? Nardog (talk) 14:06, 30 April 2022 (UTC)


 * As you may have noticed, Anomie added the relevant task. The way this might worked around would be something like  which could add an appropriate class, and then TemplateStyles would add the appropriate CSS to color links. Obviously this would need to be opt-in. Izno (talk) 19:48, 30 April 2022 (UTC)

Need help with image pixels
How many pixels should I set an image to that is best for both mobile and desktop?

The image in question is the map at the top of United States. If I just do the default without specifying pixels, the map doesn’t take up the whole width of the mobile screen, so it’s hard for readers to read the map legend. I think more pixels is obviously better, but I don’t wanna run into issues where it’s excessively large in desktop view, and/or protrudes past the right edge and requiring an unnecessary horizontal scroll bar just to look over the entire image.

I carried over the “300 pixels” setting from the previous outgoing image, and it’s slightly blurry in mobile view, not as clear as I would like. On desktop it still seems to be fine. It looks like the pixel setting only applies to mobile view?

Any assistance would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

Mrbeastmodeallday (talk) 20:01, 30 April 2022 (UTC)
 * You've set 350px, which is against MOS:IMGSIZE and WP:THUMBSIZE, particularly since it's not in the lead section. Since there is no link option, the image may be clicked to enlarge it, should users so desire. -- Red rose64 &#x1f339; (talk) 21:43, 30 April 2022 (UTC)

File:MerkelTS.jpg - can't be deleted as the only choice is undelete
And it needs deletion as a BLP violation, see. Thannks. Doug Weller talk 12:34, 1 May 2022 (UTC)


 * Deleted at Commons as copyvio. Doug Weller  talk 13:43, 1 May 2022 (UTC)

Time-expired problem at Template:Centralized discussion
As noted at WP:Bureaucrats' noticeboard, something has gone wrong with Centralized discussion. I previewed an edit of that template after replacing its contents with. I previewed it with. That showed Lua time usage 8.038/10.000 seconds so RfA watchlist notice is responsible. I don't have time to look any further at the moment and hope others will fix it! Johnuniq (talk) 10:56, 1 May 2022 (UTC)
 * It seems that, even though  in Module:RFX report only needs to count the number of transcluded RFA pages, it's also parsing each RFA and counting the number of support/oppose/neutral votes on each. The counting of votes (specifically, the call to   in   in Module:Rfx) appears to be what was slowing things down so much. Now that Kusma has removed the call to that module from User:Amalthea/RfX/RfA count things should be back to normal. Anomie⚔ 15:53, 1 May 2022 (UTC)

Map misspelling
On the page Royal and Prior School the map says aphoe instead of Raphoe. I can't find the map to change it, and probaby wouldn't know how to if I did. Does anyone know how to fix it? Thanks, DuncanHill (talk) 19:54, 1 May 2022 (UTC)


 * Try zooming in and you will see the full word. I'm not sure why, since the map is and has always been correct. <span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,red,yellow,cyan);color:transparent;background-clip:text;-webkit-background-clip:text">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh 20:09, 1 May 2022 (UTC)
 * The page you linked to says "There is currently no text in this page. You can search for this page title in other pages, or search the related logs, but you do not have permission to create this page". Perhaps we could add a message to the infobox saying "zoom in for correct spelling". DuncanHill (talk) 20:14, 1 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Oops, my bad. Here it is. I suggest filing a Phabricator task instead of doing so. <span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,red,yellow,cyan);color:transparent;background-clip:text;-webkit-background-clip:text">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh 20:19, 1 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Done at https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T307309 DuncanHill (talk) 20:35, 1 May 2022 (UTC)
 * I changed the default zoom level in the infobox; the full name now appears in the article. <b style="color:#034503">MB</b> 21:17, 1 May 2022 (UTC)

Hiding Wikidata edits from watchlist
Hi there...is there a way to hide Wikidata edits from being displayed on my watchlist? They clutter things up and at times overwhelm the actual edits I want to keep an eye on. There's a checkbox in Preferences for "Show Wikidata edits in your watchlist," but this is already unchecked for me and I'm still seeing tons of Wikidata edits. Thanks. WildCowboy (talk) 22:56, 1 May 2022 (UTC)


 * Under the "Mark all changes as seen" button, you can see a list of "Active filters". Does "Wikidata edits" appear in that list? If it does, disabling it should solve the issue. &#8212;CX Zoom[he/him] (let's talk • {C•X}) 23:40, 1 May 2022 (UTC)
 * There is an option under "Type of Change" to filter for Wikidata edits, though not an option for "Not Wikidata edits." I'm assuming by checking all of the other options in that section and leaving Wikidata edits unchecked that I'll get what I'm looking for and not miss out on any other type of edits that I might want to follow. Will give it a try. Thanks! WildCowboy (talk) 23:55, 1 May 2022 (UTC)

Make working with templates easier: More improvements coming soon.
Hello. The last set of improvements from WMDE’s Templates project will be deployed to English Wikipedia soon:

1) You’ll receive a fundamentally improved template dialog in VisualEditor and New Wikitext mode. This will make it easier to understand what is expected from a template, how to navigate the template dialog, and how to add parameters. These improvements have been active on a few wikis for some months already. The little video here summarizes the changes that were made. If you like to learn more, please visit our project page.

2) It will become easier to find and insert templates with an improved search and added warnings (in the TemplateWizard & in the template dialog of VisualEditor and New Wikitext mode).

3) In syntax highlighting (CodeMirror extension), a colorblind-friendly color scheme will be added. You’ll be able to activate it with a user setting.

The planned deployment for 1) and 2) on English Wikipedia is May 17. 3) is planned for May 10. These were the last three out of seven projects in the Templates focus area. Apart from these bigger projects, the Technical Wishes team improved a few other user-facing issues and fixed some bugs related to working with templates. You can learn more about it here.

Feedback on all the projects is much appreciated on their respective talk pages. – Thanks a lot on behalf of WMDE’s Technical Wishes team, Johanna Strodt (WMDE) (talk) 10:47, 29 April 2022 (UTC)


 * I'm confused. I thought this was already planned to be released previously? ― <b style="background:#0d1125;color:#51aeff;padding:1q;border-radius:5q;">Blaze Wolf</b>Talk<sub title="Discord Username" style="margin-left:-22q;">Blaze Wolf#6545 13:28, 29 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Yes some of this was previously announced, but then delayed in the week that it was supposed to go live. —Th e DJ (talk • contribs) 19:17, 29 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Ah alright. Thanks for the clarification. ― <b style="background:#0d1125;color:#51aeff;padding:1q;border-radius:5q;">Blaze Wolf</b>Talk<sub title="Discord Username" style="margin-left:-22q;">Blaze Wolf#6545 19:22, 29 April 2022 (UTC)
 * @Blaze Wolf: Thanks for the question, and @TheDJ: +1, thanks for the clarification! We hope these changes will bring a significant improvement for working with templates. -- Have a good week, Johanna Strodt (WMDE) (talk) 07:38, 2 May 2022 (UTC)

Loading Watchlist very slow
For the past three days the Watchlist can take 15+ seconds just to respond to being clicked. Everything else responds normally as usual. soibangla (talk) 11:47, 1 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Happening for me too, even with a relatively small watchlist (sub-200 pages total). Buttons to Push Buttons (talk | contribs) 13:30, 1 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Same for me, sometimes 5 seconds, sometimes over 10. Kante4 (talk) 13:32, 1 May 2022 (UTC)
 * EVERYTHING is slowing down. Ongoing issue - see T300914. I noticed it at both DYK and my watchlist a couple of days ago, and it just isn't getting better.  — Maile  (talk) 14:54, 1 May 2022 (UTC)
 * I came here to see if anyone else was experiencing this slowdown. Evidently so! It doesn't appear to be related to the size of the watchlist: I tested it with User:Smallerjim's watchlist which has only one item and it still takes about 10s, same as my main one. I haven't noticed an effect on anything other than watchlists, but if anything the delays there are increasing. —Smalljim  15:07, 1 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Try turning down the enhanced filters - T307214.--Snævar (talk) 15:30, 1 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Since MediaWiki:watchlist-messages transcludes Template:RfA watchlist notice, it's probably the same underlying issue as above. I note that using a different language loads much faster, which further supports that guess. Anomie⚔ 15:34, 1 May 2022 (UTC)
 * I think parsing Tamzin's RfA every time might be causing it? I've tried this; does this improve things? —Kusma (talk) 15:46, 1 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Back to normal for me. Kante4 (talk) 15:48, 1 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Bravo. Well done, thank you. -Roxy the grumpy dog . wooF 15:52, 1 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Wait. How did that change affect me? -Roxy the grumpy dog . wooF 15:53, 1 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Much improved, thanks Kusma. Same question! —Smalljim  15:58, 1 May 2022 (UTC)
 * To put what Anomie said slightly differently, the watchlist notice displaying the number of RfAs currently active was causing the slowdown, as it was changed earlier this year to parse the RfA page to count the RfAs. This change was reverted to be a hardcoded number (and so the number may lag the actual number once again). isaacl (talk) 16:02, 1 May 2022 (UTC)
 * I'll take my share of the blame; although I couldn't find the conversation in a quick search, I'm pretty sure I'm the one who suggested using the module to generate the count. (I didn't discuss the implementation, but I did look at it once it was implemented and didn't raise any red flags.) My apologies for the slowdown. isaacl (talk) 16:20, 1 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Back to normal for me, thank you! soibangla (talk) 16:04, 1 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Still don't understand what happened (too stupid for any technical stuff) but thanks. :D Kante4 (talk) 16:10, 1 May 2022 (UTC)
 * As I understand it, on everyone's watchlist there's a notice that pops up every time there's a new RfA (to encourage participation). Apparently it used to be updated manually, but when it was automated back in January it now has to read/parse(?) all of the edits in each outstanding RfA (I don't know why), and it has to do this even if the notice is no longer being shown because it's been closed. So Tamzin's current RfA, which has hundreds of edits is slowing it down. Is that anywhere near the truth, techies? —Smalljim  16:37, 1 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Fairly close, since you asked. It doesn't parse the edits, but it does process the wikitext of the page enough to count the number of !votes in each section. And it doesn't actually have to do that, it just happens that the existing code that was re-used does so. Anomie⚔ 16:49, 1 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Wow! After reading the above, I simply dismissed the RFA notice, which never returned.  And now my Watch List loads at lightening speed. — Maile  (talk) 17:10, 1 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Hmm, not entirely convinced... I removed that RfA notice from my watchlist a couple of days ago, and although the list seems to load faster now, it's still loading noticeably slower than it used to. -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 11:54, 2 May 2022 (UTC)

User talk page warning to flag up likely THEYCANTHEARYOU problem
While waiting (!) for the mobile user notification problem (WP:THEYCANTHEARYOU) to be one day maybe (!!) fixed, would it be a) possible and  b) good idea to implement in the meantime a warning which automatically appears on the top of the user talk page of a user who is likely to be not getting notifications (ie. edits only or or mostly on an affected mobile device, and does not edit their talk page)?

I realise this would do nothing to help such users receive the said notifications, but it would at least make it easier for the rest of us to identify this as a possible explanation for their lack of response to warnings etc., helping to AGF and not raise blood pressures unduly. I've seen many user talk pages where the attempts at communicating with the user get increasingly desperate, until someone points out this as the likely reason. I just thought maybe that could be done automatically by way of some clever code.

Thoughts? -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 07:25, 30 April 2022 (UTC)


 * I don't see how "automatically" can be done. I would prefer to just disallow editing from any remaining THEYCANTHEARYOU system, ideally combined with pointers to our many working systems instead of a broken one. (This post was written on my phone using a browser and the Monobook skin, which is both easier to use and more powerful than any of the crippled "mobile solutions"). —Kusma (talk) 08:26, 30 April 2022 (UTC)
 * By "automatically" I meant some sort of user-side script which I could opt in and put in my common.js or somewhere. When I then visit a user talk page, the script checks the user's edit history and displays (to me) a warning, flagging up things like 'user has never edited their user talk page' or 'user edits using iOS devices only', or whatever the relevant criteria are. Is that not doable? -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 10:04, 30 April 2022 (UTC)
 * @DoubleGrazing, WP:SCRIPTREQ? Both of the flags you listed above are probably doable. &#8213; Qwerfjkl  talk  10:02, 2 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Thanks @Qwerfjkl — didn't even know such a place existed! :) Will try there... -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 11:55, 2 May 2022 (UTC)

Time spent on Mediawiki projects
Is there a way to see how much time you spend surfing/working on Mediawiki projects? I'm curious. - Klein Muçi (talk) 15:56, 27 April 2022 (UTC)


 * It would need to be client-side, logs of 'reading' pages is not available publicly for privacy reasons. — xaosflux  Talk 16:02, 27 April 2022 (UTC)
 * @Klein Muçi This may not be exactly what you're looking for, but xtools' edit count report includes a timecard that shows what time of day and day of week your edits tend to occur on. ~  ONUnicorn (Talk&#124;Contribs) problem solving 17:41, 27 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Some tasks involve offline work, such as researching in books or analysing database dumps, and there's no way to record that. Most edits I can do in seconds but a few take days to prepare and that's not recorded anywhere.  Certes (talk) 17:47, 27 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Thank you to everyone who commented! The timecard was indeed interesting in regard to my question. I was just curious to know how many hours a day I spend at "Wikipedia" averagely. The only reason I didn't say "Wikipedia" is because, beside changing back and forth between at least 3 different languages of Wikipedias, I also switch back and forth between different projects such as WikiQuote, Meta and MediaWiki. My ideal outcome would also take into consideration the time spent at the Phabricator, the Wikimedia Code Review and SWViewer (or even other offline work as user Certes mentions) but knowing such a thing could be hard to achieved (if not impossible, considering the offline element) I was mostly hoping for a "client-side tracking script" that could track the activity in the aforementioned MediaWiki projects but it looks like such a thing isn't really a thing so...
 * Thank you anyway! :) - Klein Muçi (talk) 00:52, 28 April 2022 (UTC)
 * , you might find Wikiscan interesting. It has figures for average time per day on different projects. BlackcurrantTea (talk) 14:11, 2 May 2022 (UTC)
 * @BlackcurrantTea, I do. Any way I can change the project, let's say, for example, from SqWiki to EnWiki or MediaWiki?
 * Also, considering that these stats do exist, is it so hard to have a conglomerate of all projects in one place? That would be exactly what I'm looking for. - Klein Muçi (talk) 14:15, 2 May 2022 (UTC)
 * At the top, there's a list of projects on the right; click on each one to see the statistics. I don't know if there's a page with totals for all projects for a single user. I see the figures as an approximation of time spent doing things that the servers can record. As Xaosflux and Certes noted, there are many things that can't be tracked. BlackcurrantTea (talk) 15:16, 2 May 2022 (UTC)

Does this template do anything?
While attempting to figure out how to use a tree list, I found Template:TreeList/Branch End and Template:TreeList/Final Branch which don't seem to do anything or be connected to anything. The creator has been indeffed for years, and these are only used in an abandoned user sandbox from said indeffed user. I imagine these are useless and should probably be deleted/redirected, but as "I don't see a use for this" isn't a valid deletion rationale, I wanted to see if anyone more familiar with the template space than me could determine if these are truly junk. Hog Farm Talk 17:48, 2 May 2022 (UTC)


 * It would appear to be a duplicate of Template:Tree list/branching. Either redirect or send to TFD. Izno (talk) 18:02, 2 May 2022 (UTC)
 * I've redirected them. Hog Farm Talk 18:07, 2 May 2022 (UTC)

Tech News: 2022-18
<section begin="technews-2022-W18"/> Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Recent changes
 * On all remaining wikis (group 2), the software to play videos and audio files on pages has now changed. The old player has been removed. Some audio players will become wider after this change. The new player has been a beta feature for over four years.

Changes later this week
 * Octicons-sync.svg The new version of MediaWiki will be on test wikis and MediaWiki.org from . It will be on non-Wikipedia wikis and some Wikipedias from . It will be on all wikis from (calendar).

Future changes
 * The developers are working on talk pages in the Wikipedia app for iOS. You can give feedback. You can take the survey in English, German, Hebrew or Chinese.
 * Most wikis will receive an improved template dialog in VisualEditor and New Wikitext mode.
 * If you use syntax highlighting while editing wikitext, you can soon activate a colorblind-friendly color scheme.
 * Octicons-tools.svg Several CSS IDs related to MediaWiki interface messages will be removed. Technical editors should please review the list of IDs and links to their existing uses. These include,   and 3 others.

Tech news prepared by Tech News writers and posted by bot • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe. <section end="technews-2022-W18"/>

19:32, 2 May 2022 (UTC)

Google translate shows login message for Wikipedia
When reading a Wikipedia page through Google Translate I get this mw.notify popup: "Central login You are centrally logged in. Reload the page to apply your user settings." I don't get it when I'm logged out on Wikipedia. Would this mean Google could see my username when I read a Wikipedia page through Google Translate? <span id="Alexis_Jazz:1651500062043:WikipediaFTTCLNVillage_pump_(technical)" class="FTTCmt">— Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 14:01, 2 May 2022 (UTC)
 * @Alexis Jazz when quickly looking at the debug from say "en-m-wikipedia-org.translate.goog" - I'm seeing tons of direct connections from my client to WMF sites. So I think this is a "maybe" - but not because Google is proxying your request, but possibly because your client is sending that data to Google yourself and asking them to translate it. — xaosflux  Talk 14:14, 2 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Xaosflux, would it technically be possible for someone to set up "whatismywikimediausername.com", similar to sites like whatismyip.com? I feel like that shouldn't be possible (imagine for example a Christian school harvesting Wikimedia usernames from students to ensure they don't edit unholy subjects), but it scares me a bit that you said "maybe". <span id="Alexis_Jazz:1651503234782:WikipediaFTTCLNVillage_pump_(technical)" class="FTTCmt">— Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 14:53, 2 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Cross Original Resource Sharing is blocked by default in modern browsers, however most browsers have ways you can purposefully enable this. — xaosflux  Talk 15:18, 2 May 2022 (UTC)
 * From what what I can gather looking at the requests, all the requests that are successfully being made that include your username are saving it in cookies only accessible by mediawiki sites. The request that gets your username to add to the central login notice doesn't go through properly, but even if that were fixed, it is would still be blocked by the Cross Origin Resource Sharing (CORS) policy. That's why you see the message "You are centrally logged in. Reload the page to apply your user settings." and not "You are centrally logged in as USERNAME. Reload the page to apply your user settings." So unless the CORS policy is ignored by the browser, it wouldn't be possible to create a site like "whatismywikimediausername.com". – Brandon XLF  (talk) 19:38, 2 May 2022 (UTC)

Vector-2022 Widening Gadget
Hi all, if you have ideas about an opt-in gadget to widen the viewport in vector-2022, feedback is welcome at MediaWiki_talk:Vector-2022.css. — xaosflux  Talk 14:46, 26 April 2022 (UTC)


 * Would the CSS in the collapsed bit would sort of show what it would look like if it were implemented? ― <b style="background:#0d1125;color:#51aeff;padding:1q;border-radius:5q;">Blaze Wolf</b>Talk<sub title="Discord Username" style="margin-left:-22q;">Blaze Wolf#6545 15:26, 26 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Need to be able to hide TOC like the Main Menu ....for more info see Village pump (technical). Causing readability issues for those who use this on mobile view for full screen Moxy -Maple Leaf (Pantone).svg 19:37, 26 April 2022 (UTC)
 * When did this change? It looks absolutely horrible on my widescreen monitor, most pages barely utilize more than like 10% of the total page width, and look almost as if CSS styles failed spectacularly! I'd like to know how to revert it ASAP! KPu3uC B Poccuu (talk) 13:01, 28 April 2022 (UTC)
 * In Special:Preferences, you can change Skin (I use "Vector legacy (2010)"), then click Save at the bottom. Certes (talk) 14:09, 28 April 2022 (UTC)
 * This doesn't change anything for me. Out of all present skins, only Monobook and Timeless (I think is its name) aren't width-limited. KPu3uC B Poccuu (talk) 06:59, 3 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Strange. I use Vector 2010 because it displays full width. I can't see any other options or gadgets that may impact this — GhostInTheMachine talk to me 10:43, 3 May 2022 (UTC)
 * This worked at one point:  I don't know if it works any longer.  (You change the "1300px" and "1400px" to whatever numbers work for you.) Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 19:44, 28 April 2022 (UTC)
 * @KPu3uC B Poccuu (and FYI to @Whatamidoing (WMF)) there is an experimental gadget you can load from preferences (all the way down in "testing and development") called "wide-vector-2022", you can try that to reclaim your screen from all that whitespace. — xaosflux  Talk 20:00, 28 April 2022 (UTC)

Removing messagebox and standard-talk
Hello all, I intend to remove the  and   classes from Common.css Soon as a part of moving to TemplateStyles (see MediaWiki talk:Common.css/to do). This is because these classes already have well-known replacements (primarily ombox and tmbox and "hand-coded" tables/divs).

I am leaving this note here (atypically) because while I have done my best to remove the vast majority of uses that are "public facing" and not archived discussions/unused WikiProjects (see MediaWiki talk:Common.css/to do; between this account and my repeat-edits account I'm in the 10k edits range mostly un-substing old AFD messages), I am essentially unable/unwilling to do anything about the uses on user and user talk pages. These uses are mostly WikiProject invitations and barnstars (as best I can, I've fixed the templates that generate the classes).

I do not think making changes to those pages makes sense. It is bot scale to preserve the width, centering, and background of these tables, which is not ultimately deleterious to the page content. However, I would anticipate many editors looking at their user pages and being sad.

I have previously written a transition guide for people who want to restore NavFrame-similar styles to their user pages (which had a similar issue), which I can do here as well if desired. It is fairly trivial in this case for individual editors to adjust their uses of these classes. I am not currently certain where that guide would live.

Please let me know what you think. Izno (talk) 21:33, 27 April 2022 (UTC)


 * It sounds to me like a reasonable idea. The old pages will still have its content preserved, which is the important thing in my opinion. as best I can, I've fixed the templates that generate the classes) is good to hear. Rlink2 (talk) 21:41, 27 April 2022 (UTC)
 * I've made up MediaWiki talk:Common.css/messagebox in case anyone wants to look at it and/or provide feedback. Izno (talk) 23:24, 29 April 2022 (UTC)
 * This is now done. Izno (talk) 21:35, 3 May 2022 (UTC)

Bug in Special:Contributions - lost checkboxes
If I go to the contribs page for a given user - say Special:Contributions/Redrose64 - open up the "Search for contributions" collapsed box, and select a namespace, I am then offered two more checkboxes: "Invert selection" and "Associated namespace". Whatever I do with those two, if I click on, then use my browser's "back" feature and open up the "Search for contributions" collapsed box again, the chosen namespace is still selected, but the two checkboxes are no longer present. To get them back, I need to select a different namespace, then reselect the one that I wanted first time. Firefox 99.0.1, all skins. -- Red rose64 &#x1f339; (talk) 20:45, 3 May 2022 (UTC)


 * I filed this as T307530 and I'll submit a patch. Fun little bug. Matma Rex talk 22:32, 3 May 2022 (UTC)
 * -- Red rose64 &#x1f339; (talk) 23:17, 3 May 2022 (UTC)

Side bar
Is there an opption to not have the new contents side bar as this is causing mass sandwich effect for me....so bad many articles are non readable.-- Moxy - 22:06, 25 April 2022 (UTC)


 * You are using Vector 2022 currently. If you wish to return to previous Vector, see Special:Preferences under the Appearance tab. Izno (talk) 22:42, 25 April 2022 (UTC)
 * That said, I've just now been given a dose of it offwiki and it's, uh, not pretty. Izno (talk) 22:48, 25 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Yes Vector 2022...its the skin we tell people that use desktop view on mobile devices to use////because it normally allows you to pick full screen ...as in no "Main menu" but now we have TOC there taking up even more room then the Main meun did. Moxy -Maple Leaf (Pantone).svg 23:23, 25 April 2022 (UTC)
 * I don't think anyone should be suggesting Vector 2022 for mobile use at this time. Timeless, Minerva, and Monobook with the responsive option on are all more appropriate. Izno (talk) 23:45, 25 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Non allow full screen.  To be honest its odd we dont have full screen option on all skins...no need for "main menu" all the time....plus its the way for editing in desktop view on mobile devices.-- Moxy -Maple Leaf (Pantone).svg 00:30, 26 April 2022 (UTC)
 * And neither does Vector 2022. I do know it is trivial to get full screen in Timeless. Izno (talk) 01:22, 26 April 2022 (UTC)
 * What?/ full page view Moxy -Maple Leaf (Pantone).svg 03:42, 26 April 2022 (UTC)
 * The linked Phabricator ticket, won't help with this particular issue (currently we hide the table of contents at low resolutions if you resize your browser, but this is viewport not window size). It likely needs a modification to the meta[name="viewport"] tag to set an initial-scale that zooms out to keep it consistent with the current legacy Vector experience.
 * Neither Vector's are responsive, so the phone is trying to compensate.
 * I'll have a think about this and get back to you later in the week with a more appropriate ticket. Jdlrobson (talk) 03:51, 26 April 2022 (UTC)
 * The static TOC in the sidebar is an accessibility issue - specifically, it fails MOS:COLOUR (second bullet) Links should clearly be identifiable as a link to our readers. - because the subsection names are shown in black, despite being links. -- Red rose64 &#x1f339; (talk) 21:08, 26 April 2022 (UTC)
 * This will be fixed with . – Jonesey95 (talk) 14:42, 28 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Hey all - thanks for bringing these issues up. A quick update from the team's side.  We are aware of some of the issues with the new ToC and are working on and deploying fixes this week and next week.  In particular we're looking at the list below.
 * - ToC on narrower screens. We have increased the threshold for which the ToC currently hides to 1000px. (See T306904 for more context). This was to make it more comfortable to read on narrower screens. This is a temporary fix, though. The conversation about the best solution will continue in T306660. By the end of this week we hope to have clear next steps on our preference of the options presented there.
 * - We have begun the work on reducing the margins for screens between 1000px - 1200px. This will make the table of contents smaller and create more space for text. We will track this in T307004 and will probably have the implementation ready within a few days. OVasileva (WMF) (talk) 07:45, 4 May 2022 (UTC)

Restore ToC
Hi, how can I restore the old behaviour of the ToC in Vector 2022? The new one takes up almost a third of the screen. &#8213; <span id="Qwerfjkl:1651506583666:WikipediaFTTCLNVillage_pump_(technical)" class="FTTCmt"> Qwerfjkl  talk  15:49, 2 May 2022 (UTC)
 * And by old behavior you mean...? Izno (talk) 18:01, 2 May 2022 (UTC)
 * If you mean that the TOC takes up too much screen width, maybe add the full width gadget referenced in the next section. That way, hiding the TOC will expand the main page area. If you mean the vertical "sticky" TOC, then you need to switch back to Vector 2010 — GhostInTheMachine talk to me 11:01, 3 May 2022 (UTC)
 * I guess you didn't get caught by the A/B testing ? Vector 2010's left-hand menu took 16% of my screenwidth. Vector 2022 took 0% (yay, a great gain in working space), this ToC on the left instead of at top experiment takes a massive 28%. It's ..., it's ... bleurgh! Cabayi (talk) 12:16, 3 May 2022 (UTC)
 * The benefits of using Timeless. Izno (talk) 17:32, 3 May 2022 (UTC)
 * More annoying is that the TOC is gone on mobile (desktop mode) due to the low screen width. &#8213; <span id="Qwerfjkl:1651608031716:WikipediaFTTCLNVillage_pump_(technical)" class="FTTCmt"> Qwerfjkl  talk  20:00, 3 May 2022 (UTC)

Is there a Vector-2022 talk page?
I had trouble deciding where to report the Chromium regression in the Vector-2022 TOC, and only later found a discussion further up this page. I think it would be useful to have a place to focus reports, announcements, and comments rather than scatter them in this page and presumably others. Would it be possible to create its own talk page (if it doesn't exist) and, so long as it remains experimental, add static code creating a collapsible banner in the Vector-2022 skin only pointing to said page? If the page already exists, am I the only one who can't find it? David Brooks (talk) 14:21, 3 May 2022 (UTC)


 * @DavidBrooks probably mw:Talk:Reading/Web/Desktop Improvements is the best place for the near term, assuming you are not running in to something that only affects the deployment on the English Wikipedia. — xaosflux  Talk 14:44, 3 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Agree, that being the talk page for mw:Skin:Vector/2022. -- Red rose64 &#x1f339; (talk) 19:49, 3 May 2022 (UTC)
 * I got a reply on mw:Talk:Reading/Web/Desktop Improvements: there already is a plan (T307113) to add a pointer to that page in the Preferences/Appearance table next week. David Brooks (talk) 14:28, 4 May 2022 (UTC)

Time restricting scripts
Hi all, I'd like to restrict several of my scripts to a certain time limit. So I'd like to know what code to use that is technically the same as the following line: If current time is less than 1830hrs OR greater than 1930hrs, then Run scripts Thanks! &#8212;CX Zoom[he/him] (let's talk • {C•X}) 14:56, 4 May 2022 (UTC)
 * here is a super quick example you can build from:  This pop ups the current hour if it is before 5 or after 12.  You can replace   with your list of scripts. —  xaosflux  Talk 15:26, 4 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Note that the  constructor uses your browser's time zone. <span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,red,yellow,cyan);color:transparent;background-clip:text;-webkit-background-clip:text">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh  15:44, 4 May 2022 (UTC)

Dark mode
The dark mode is too extreme in my opinion, the blue text doesn't really look very good on a black background. Can I suggest to any of the developers reading this to make the dark mode a dark grey with white text and lighter grey for article links, similar to the design of Wiki Wand? Though something which places the article titles on a black background with white text I think would be a good addition too, something to embolden the article names.The black is too extreme for the article backgrounds though. Perhaps an option to have the article title and side panels with black and white and the articles white and normal that would be useful rather than the whole thing black and white. ♦ Dr. Blofeld  08:58, 4 May 2022 (UTC)


 * @Dr. Blofeld please follow up at Wikipedia talk:Dark mode (gadget). — xaosflux  Talk 15:03, 4 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Thanks.Zao.♦ Dr. Blofeld  16:35, 4 May 2022 (UTC)

Dark mode by default to save energy (and the earth)
Wikipedia being a very popular website can have a high impact in reducing global warming by reducing computer resource use in server and clients. More and more devices use OLED technology, and energy can be saved by using black backgrounds. Mobile vendors have automated this, switching to dark mode when battery is low.

Wikipedia's commitment to reduce global warming is mandatory. Let's set dark mode as default. Let's change the world. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.19.176.171 (talk) 22:09, 1 May 2022 (UTC)
 * To anyone interested, if you enable the dark-mode gadget and set  in your common.js, dark mode will automatically turn on/off when your device changes its colour scheme (eg. in Mac you can set system theme=auto so that dark mode is activated at sunset). –  SD0001  (talk) 07:13, 2 May 2022 (UTC)
 * OP: []. – Jonesey95 (talk) 23:15, 2 May 2022 (UTC)
 * OLEDs don't have a backlight, so dark mode does save a small amount of energy. I believe that most recent iPhones use this technology, and that almost no desktop computers do.  On a modern non-OLED display, the energy difference is on the order of 5% of the power used by the display itself, which is not necessarily the most significant source of power use by the whole computer (power use depends significantly on what you're doing, not just whether the computer is turned on). Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 18:27, 4 May 2022 (UTC)

ENGVAR in newcomer copyedit task
Hi all, I don't know where this query fits best, so I'm asking it here. Are newcomers who are guided by the Newcomers task feature, told about MOS:ENGVAR before giving them the task of copy-editing? So far, I've found quite a few Newcomer copyeditors switch British English to American one and vice-versa. If they aren't told about it already, can it be added to the guide somehow? (Noting that I know nothing about how this thing works) Thanks! &#8212;CX Zoom[he/him] (let's talk • {C•X}) 19:28, 29 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Does not seem to be mentioned anywhere. The relevant guidance, reproduced here, is:
 * MediaWiki:growthexperiments-help-panel-suggestededits-quick-start-tips
 * MediaWiki:growthexperiments-help-panel-suggestededits-tips-vector-visualeditor-copyedit-example-value
 * MediaWiki:growthexperiments-help-panel-suggestededits-tips-vector-visualeditor-copyedit-main-calm
 * MediaWiki:growthexperiments-help-panel-suggestededits-tips-vector-visualeditor-copyedit-main-rules1
 * MediaWiki:growthexperiments-help-panel-suggestededits-tips-vector-visualeditor-copyedit-example-rules1
 * MediaWiki:growthexperiments-help-panel-suggestededits-tips-vector-visualeditor-copyedit-main-rules2
 * MediaWiki:growthexperiments-help-panel-suggestededits-tips-vector-visualeditor-copyedit-example-rules2
 * MediaWiki:growthexperiments-help-panel-suggestededits-tips-vector-visualeditor-copyedit-text-rules2
 * MediaWiki:growthexperiments-help-panel-suggestededits-tips-vector-visualeditor-copyedit-main-step1
 * MediaWiki:growthexperiments-help-panel-suggestededits-tips-vector-visualeditor-copyedit-main-publish
 * * Pppery * <sub style="color:#800000">it has begun... 19:52, 29 April 2022 (UTC)
 * So we should add "Do not change American to British spellings or vice versa" to main-rules1 ? —Kusma (talk) 07:57, 30 April 2022 (UTC)
 * I think we need to tell newcomers about that. Newcomers using the guide, thinking that they're making good contributions only to get reverted per ENGVAR doesn't look good. &#8212;CX Zoom[he/him] (let's talk • {C•X}) 13:31, 30 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Is there a way to replicate newcomer messages on my account. &#8212;CX Zoom[he/him] (let's talk • {C•X}) 13:37, 30 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Go to Special:Preferences, turn on "Display newcomer homepage", then visit Special:Homepage * Pppery * <sub style="color:#800000">it has begun... 13:42, 30 April 2022 (UTC)
 * @Trizek (WMF), I think this is for you. Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 17:47, 4 May 2022 (UTC)
 * @CX Zoom @Kusma @Pppery, thank you for starting this feedback loop.
 * What we usually suggest is to edit local messages to fit local rules, only if there is no other way to pass an important information. This information has to be really important, and should not break the concise texts that already exists, because of the well known TL;DR effect.
 * I would suggest on main-rules1 to go with "You can fix spelling and grammar errors. This might include sentences that are too long, repeated words, or incorrect punctuation. Keep the English spelling used (British, American...)."
 * What do you think? Trizek (WMF) (talk) 19:08, 4 May 2022 (UTC)
 * @Trizek (WMF): I'm not fully convinced this is better than my suggestion. The advantage of your text is that it makes it clear that American and British English are not the only possibilities; that is the main reason I have not WP:BOLDly made a change yet. "Keep the variety of English used (British, American, ...)?" "Do not change the variety of English used (British, American, ...)"? It should be short and to the point, and probably not include a link, especially not to something as terrifying as the MOS. —Kusma (talk) 19:53, 4 May 2022 (UTC)
 * @Kusma, it is more encouraging to have Do-s rather than Don't-s. :) This is why I suggest along the lines of "Keep the variety of English used (British, American, ...)". I agree on keeping it short and to the point, and not including the link: a single sentence is supposed to suffice to explain this part of the MOS. But the final call is yours (yours as in "the community"). Trizek (WMF) (talk) 20:16, 4 May 2022 (UTC)
 * I think we need to tell newcomers about that. Newcomers using the guide, thinking that they're making good contributions only to get reverted per ENGVAR doesn't look good. &#8212;CX Zoom[he/him] (let's talk • {C•X}) 13:31, 30 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Is there a way to replicate newcomer messages on my account. &#8212;CX Zoom[he/him] (let's talk • {C•X}) 13:37, 30 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Go to Special:Preferences, turn on "Display newcomer homepage", then visit Special:Homepage * Pppery * <sub style="color:#800000">it has begun... 13:42, 30 April 2022 (UTC)
 * @Trizek (WMF), I think this is for you. Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 17:47, 4 May 2022 (UTC)
 * @CX Zoom @Kusma @Pppery, thank you for starting this feedback loop.
 * What we usually suggest is to edit local messages to fit local rules, only if there is no other way to pass an important information. This information has to be really important, and should not break the concise texts that already exists, because of the well known TL;DR effect.
 * I would suggest on main-rules1 to go with "You can fix spelling and grammar errors. This might include sentences that are too long, repeated words, or incorrect punctuation. Keep the English spelling used (British, American...)."
 * What do you think? Trizek (WMF) (talk) 19:08, 4 May 2022 (UTC)
 * @Trizek (WMF): I'm not fully convinced this is better than my suggestion. The advantage of your text is that it makes it clear that American and British English are not the only possibilities; that is the main reason I have not WP:BOLDly made a change yet. "Keep the variety of English used (British, American, ...)?" "Do not change the variety of English used (British, American, ...)"? It should be short and to the point, and probably not include a link, especially not to something as terrifying as the MOS. —Kusma (talk) 19:53, 4 May 2022 (UTC)
 * @Kusma, it is more encouraging to have Do-s rather than Don't-s. :) This is why I suggest along the lines of "Keep the variety of English used (British, American, ...)". I agree on keeping it short and to the point, and not including the link: a single sentence is supposed to suffice to explain this part of the MOS. But the final call is yours (yours as in "the community"). Trizek (WMF) (talk) 20:16, 4 May 2022 (UTC)

Chrome browser edit window fonts
Seeking advice from anyone who uses Chrome. I use both Chrome and Firefox. In Firefox, we have a Settings tab that opens to a selection for Fonts. I've never had any issue with the Firefox fonts. In Chrome, I have the browsing window fonts the size and look I want. But no matter how I adjust Settings, Appearance, Fonts, my edit window has such teeny tiny fonts that I can't read them even with a magnifying glass. It's been this way for a while. I have one device that runs on Windows 10, and one that runs n Windows 11 - both have this issue with Chrome. Can anyone offer advice on how to adjust the edit window view in Chrome? Edge browser does the same as Chrome, but I rarely use Edge. Thanks. — Maile (talk) 22:55, 1 May 2022 (UTC)


 * @Maile66 this probably isn't it, but especially if you are using modern or monobook, you have kind of a mess of personal css going on. You are double importing the same personal user script in your common.css and your skin css'; but that script is then turning around and loading a gadget.  If you want to use navpopups I suggest you remove all the entries to it in User:Maile66/common.css, User:Maile66/modern.css, and User:Maile66/monobook.css - and just use the gadget in preferences.
 * The next step to try would be to at least temporarily turn off everything in User:Maile66/common.js and see if your issue gets better. — xaosflux  Talk 18:35, 4 May 2022 (UTC)
 * I don't use Monobook, but maybe I did in the past and it loaded. I deleted Monobook css and deleted the Modern css.  So far, nothing changes on Chrome, but I haven't yet deleted that Modern css.  FYI, I have a newer computer that I've just set up.  On Firefox, I had these issues, until I installed NoScript, which magically corrected everything on that browser.  I'm thinking I used to have NoScript on Chrome, but Chrome now blocks NoScript from being added, and deleted it from my Chrome browser some time ago.  That might be why Chrome has gone weird. Wikimedia Commons itself looks strange to me on Chrome.  — Maile  (talk) 19:34, 4 May 2022 (UTC)
 * @Maile66 perhaps you have javascript disabled? See if you can see your own address on this page after clicking the button: Get my IP address — xaosflux  Talk 20:40, 4 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Yes, clicking on that link, and then clicking as instructed when it tells me to, brings up my IP address. — Maile (talk) 21:16, 4 May 2022 (UTC)

Petscan
Why since 1-2 months this link loads very slowly and since few days it shows only "No result for source categories" while other categories works and loads fast? Time to time there is always some problem with this tool. If it's due to Wikimedia softare update - can't someone chceck if tool works before or atleast after update implementation? Eurohunter (talk) 12:08, 4 May 2022 (UTC)


 * You will need to ask the developer of Petscan. Izno (talk) 17:39, 4 May 2022 (UTC)
 * It's a problem that has been going on for at least four months. I first noticed it in early January this year. -- Red rose64 &#x1f339; (talk) 21:33, 4 May 2022 (UTC)

"Special pages"?
Hello, Village Pump Technical folks,

I was wondering if anyone here knew who or what bot was responsible for updating the Special Pages lists. Specifically, I'm interested in Special:UnusedCategories and Special:WantedCategories, lists which typically update every 3 days and are hours late updating today. The Wanted Categories helps us get rid of red link categories (per WP:REDNO) and the Unused Categories includes categories that are not included on the Database report of empty categories like maintenance categories so it is very useful. If I had my way, these lists would update daily, not every 3 days but, again, I'm not sure who to contact about this. The lists do have talk pages but if you visit them, you'll find questions posted from years ago that were never replied to so I'm not sure who is involved with maintaining these "special pages".

Any help or referral to who I could ask about this delay in posting the lists, would be much appreciated! Thanks! Liz <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">Read! Talk! 20:02, 1 May 2022 (UTC)


 * MediaWiki itself updates the lists automatically and periodically. It is also reported that other things have been much slower recently, so I guess this is just another one in multiple of consequences. <span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,red,yellow,cyan);color:transparent;background-clip:text;-webkit-background-clip:text">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh 20:24, 1 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Those can't really be put on an less than 3 day update scheme, because all of the special pages collectively take 3 days to update - source: T17434. Those are the responsibility of the developers.--Snævar (talk) 20:36, 1 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Thank you so much for this information, NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh and Snævar, this is much more than I knew before about this group of pages. If it is coming from MediaWiki, well, then there is no bot operator I can try to convince to change the timing. I'll just be grateful for the reports when they do get updated. Thanks again. Liz <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">Read! Talk! 21:36, 1 May 2022 (UTC)
 * The special pages I use updated, as expected, on today, May 4th, so I guess what was broken has been fixed. Again, I appreciate the information provided here. Liz <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">Read! Talk! 05:55, 5 May 2022 (UTC)

Gallery pictures look blurry on Edge and Chrome (Windows)

 * Edge version: 100.0.1185.50 (64-bit)
 * Chrome version: 100.0.4896.127 (64-bit)
 * Issue: On gallery templates, image previews look noticeably worse
 * Tube·of·Light 14:31, 4 May 2022 (UTC)
 * I'm not exactly seeing the issue here. The images look perfectly fine. ― <b style="background:#0d1125;color:#51aeff;padding:1q;border-radius:5q;">Blaze Wolf</b>Talk<sub title="Discord Username" style="margin-left:-22q;">Blaze Wolf#6545 14:33, 4 May 2022 (UTC)
 * On the top four picture thumbnails there is some weird phenomenon kinda like aliasing (the left side of the linked picture). When I click on the thumbnails, it shows clear pictures. Tube·of·Light 16:09, 4 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Ohhh! I see now. They're slightly pixelated. I was bit confused when you said the images were blurry. ― <b style="background:#0d1125;color:#51aeff;padding:1q;border-radius:5q;">Blaze Wolf</b>Talk<sub title="Discord Username" style="margin-left:-22q;">Blaze Wolf#6545 16:11, 4 May 2022 (UTC)h
 * I can reproduce the issue in the same article as OP. The issue here seems to be related to wrapping the gallery onto multiple lines. If all the images are on the same line you get undersized and blurry previews, if you adjust the browser window so that the gallery wraps onto multiple lines they pop back to being full quality. 163.1.15.238 (talk) 15:13, 4 May 2022 (UTC)
 * I checked just now and the images are blurry at zoom levels of 100% and lower, while zooming to 110% or higher fixes the issue. Tube·of·Light 16:11, 4 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Gallery's do some up/down scaling at certain sizes, depending on the available space in the page, to try to make them fit the entire width of the page. This scaling can definitely have this effect and there probably is a bug that scales it down by 1 pixel, even at 100%. This is pretty old code that does this, and in hindsight, probably wasn't the smartest idea to add it at all, but its been in place for 10'ish years. The whole thing is not helped by the fact that Windows isn't that good at scaling images/text. —Th e DJ (talk • contribs) 09:09, 5 May 2022 (UTC)

Movement Strategy Implementation Grant for the creation of an all-purpose file tool
Hello! I'll be developing an all-purpose file tool that includes the feature to detect potential copyright-violating images that also appear on the Internet. I thought it would be a good idea to request a Movement Strategy Implementation Grant from the Wikimedia Foundation. You can find more information about the scope of the tool and the grant on m:Grants:Project/MSIG/EpicPupper/Fortuna. Feel free to leave comments, questions, suggestions, or ideas on the grant talk page, and endorsements or offers to translate or localize the tool in the relevant sections. Thanks! 🐶 EpicPupper (he/him &#124; talk) 09:24, 5 May 2022 (UTC)

How to get/copy raw html content?
Hi, I want to copy a specific part of a RAW Html content, but I don't know how to do it. For example, I want to get ...  content in this link and then use it in a Mediawiki namespace page. Thanks! ⇒ Aram  Talk  00:07, 29 April 2022 (UTC)
 * @Aram don't think that is very feasible (maybe with some Lua) - what is the end result you are trying to accomplish, perhaps there is another way to go about it. — xaosflux  Talk 11:50, 29 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Special:ExpandTemplates may be helpful to strip template content. Otherwise look at the page source, on Firefox it is more tools > view source. -- Jules (Mrjulesd) 13:05, 29 April 2022 (UTC)
 * @Xaosflux and @Mrjulesd I want to add a drop-down list to Special:Upload (on ckbwiki) to add non-free templates (i. e. Template:Non-free use rationale album cover) just like Licensing drop-down list. And I wrote some codes (see below), but I don't know how to get those template codes.
 * Try above in console. We should do something to get template codes for albumCoverValue variable. ⇒ Aram  Talk  18:28, 29 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Try using a JSON page? <span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,red,yellow,cyan);color:transparent;background-clip:text;-webkit-background-clip:text">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh 19:09, 29 April 2022 (UTC)
 * @NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh I've never worked with JSON. Do you have any idea? ⇒ Aram  Talk  19:46, 29 April 2022 (UTC)
 * You apparently know JS, so I think I can safely assume that you also know what JSON is. Create a JSON page (by changing content model or using a title that ends with .json) with all template codes, then use some JS code to query that page's content. <span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,red,yellow,cyan);color:transparent;background-clip:text;-webkit-background-clip:text">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh 19:53, 29 April 2022 (UTC)
 * I suggest you just add as a section within your existing form; they can be seen here: MediaWiki:Licenses; attempting to insert additional input boxes there will likely become problematic with different skins and with different releases. I sent you a note on ckbwiki where I might be able to look further. —  xaosflux  Talk 19:54, 29 April 2022 (UTC)
 * @NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh I have basic information about it, but I haven't worked on it. Of course, I have created Wikipedia JSON pages, but those were just a copy-paste from other projects (without my skills). So far, I have no idea how to get information from it, but now you've given me some ideas about how it works, and I thank you for that. I need to read some information about it so I can work with it. Thank you!
 * @Xaosflux I'm not technically that good. But I don't know how the MediaWiki:Licenses page can add those templates contents to the box. If we do so, it may be confused because it merges with the license section. Anyway, I'll wait for your notes. ⇒ Aram  Talk  20:32, 29 April 2022 (UTC)
 * @Xaosflux I'm not technically that good. But I don't know how the MediaWiki:Licenses page can add those templates contents to the box. If we do so, it may be confused because it merges with the license section. Anyway, I'll wait for your notes. ⇒ Aram  Talk  20:32, 29 April 2022 (UTC)

When you edit MediaWiki:Licenses the bulleted items work like this:
 * *$TemplatePageName|$Label
 * So for example on w:ckb:MediaWiki:Licenses there is a line:
 * This uses the template at w:ckb:داڕێژە:Cc-by-3.0
 * So create any templates you want, apply appropriate protection to them, then edit that Licenses page to add them. Is that what you are looking for? — xaosflux  Talk 20:50, 29 April 2022 (UTC)
 * @Xaosflux No, I'm not talking about the licensees, but about the usage of Template:Non-free use rationale. On ckbwiki, only the ckb:Template:ھۆکاری بەکارھێنانی نائازاد provided (see ckb:میدیاویکی:Onlyifuploading.js). There are more templates (see Category:Non-free use rationale templates). I mean how to add those templates usage codes to the box instead of the ckb:Template:ھۆکاری بەکارھێنانی نائازاد? Am I clear? ⇒ Aram  Talk  21:21, 29 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Think I'm missing your goal a little bit. Your Special:Upload already includes lots of non-free templated options, you can remove ones that you don't want be editing the Licenses page as well. —  xaosflux  Talk 21:43, 29 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Hello again @Xaosflux and @NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh, Sorry for reopening this section. I was about to read those documentations User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh had provided here and they were very useful for this case. I tried to get some information through JSON, I updated the code above according to those documentations and produced the below code; I'm not that good at coding, but anyway, I made something.
 * Hello again @Xaosflux and @NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh, Sorry for reopening this section. I was about to read those documentations User:NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh had provided here and they were very useful for this case. I tried to get some information through JSON, I updated the code above according to those documentations and produced the below code; I'm not that good at coding, but anyway, I made something.


 * Please notice that I changed the API source and it's "revids" to allow you try the the code (here: Special:Upload on testwiki) in your browser console and see a drop-down list created just above the "Licensing" drop-down list, but the problem here is an empty list, which produces [Object object], but if try the same code again just after the first time, you now can see the drop-down list we wanted. Can you tell me why it's not completely created at the first time? And if you have any other note about the code, I'm glad to hear them. Thanks! ⇒ Aram  Talk  13:40, 3 May 2022 (UTC)

I'm not sure why your code doesn't work, but here's how I write it: 14:29, 3 May 2022 (UTC)
 * I really want to thank you! Thank you for rewriting, cleaning the code up and removing any potentially error! It's working properly now! ⇒ Aram  Talk  17:44, 3 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Hi, you may want to make it a gadget and add a condition instead of inserting directly to MediaWiki:Common.js which will be load for every user on every page. <span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,red,yellow,cyan);color:transparent;background-clip:text;-webkit-background-clip:text">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh 15:41, 4 May 2022 (UTC)
 * NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh Done, but after creating the gadget (see ckb:میدیاویکی:Gadget-UploadTemplates.js), it doesn't worked and produced this error: . I think this is related to T75714. Do you have any idea? ⇒ Aram  Talk  14:36, 5 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Change let into var. ES6 is no supported for directly loaded JS, only inside lazy loaded JS under certain conditions. —Th e DJ (talk • contribs) 14:42, 5 May 2022 (UTC)
 * This is highly recommended. will also need to change line 46 to , as well as all of its usage in the loop (i to j) to avoid potential overlapping. <span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,red,yellow,cyan);color:transparent;background-clip:text;-webkit-background-clip:text">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh  14:48, 5 May 2022 (UTC)
 * As mentioned in the task, you can move the real code to somewhere else while keeping a  at the gadget page. <span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,red,yellow,cyan);color:transparent;background-clip:text;-webkit-background-clip:text">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh  14:43, 5 May 2022 (UTC)
 * @TheDJ and @NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh, Thank you both! It works now. But in the line 46, I just changed the let to var (because  is not working). As a result, I just loaded the gadget (ckb:میدیاویکی:Gadget-UploadTemplates.js) and changed let to var. That is all. Special thanks to you all! ⇒  Aram  Talk  15:40, 5 May 2022 (UTC)

New vector misses hyperlinks for "table of contents"
Hi, in the new vector (2022), the "table of contents" exists in the left side bar, as the last item of it. The problem is that all of headings and subheadings listed in this table misses a hyperlink that redirect the page to the related heading/subheading. I mean, after the event of "clicking on the text" we should scroll/redirect to a heading (via a URL, that its "heading text" is preceded by a "#" sign).

For example, when we open the article Variety_(universal_algebra) in the new vector (2022), there exists a table of content in the left side bar that if we click, for example, on the "Definition" item of that list, no action happens for now, but the correct scenario is that, after clicking, we should scroll the page to the section "https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variety_(universal_algebra)#Definition". Please add required hyperlinks to the table of contents items in the new vector. Thanks, Hooman Mallahzadeh (talk) 10:10, 1 May 2022 (UTC)


 * This is a bug in the latest version of Chrome —Th e DJ (talk • contribs) 11:17, 1 May 2022 (UTC)
 * I am using Microsoft Edge browser, and this problem exists there. Hooman Mallahzadeh (talk) 11:29, 1 May 2022 (UTC)
 * @TheDJ But Opera browser has no such a bug. Hooman Mallahzadeh (talk) 11:32, 1 May 2022 (UTC)
 * @TheDJ A browser layer, like Chrome or Edge, is under the layer of a web pages of a website, like articles of Wikipedia. So this bug is on behalf of Wikipedia not from these browsers. We should change and modify Wikipedia such that it would be compatible with all types and versions of browsers like Edge.
 * Note that we should write Wikipedia webpages in a version of HTML language that is the most standard and basic tags of it, so that a it should not be dependent on a specific version of HTML. The uncompatibility that we face here, exactly comes from the neglection of this principle. Hooman Mallahzadeh (talk) 11:50, 1 May 2022 (UTC)
 * The browser version has been out for just a couple of days, fixing bugs takes time. —Th e DJ (talk • contribs) 21:04, 1 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Yes, Chromium, which is the rendering engine for Chrome, is also used for the same purpose in Edge. It would naturlaly occur in both. Izno (talk) 17:06, 1 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Although (as I note below) a device may have different Chromium versions installed with the two browsers at any given time due to different update cycles, which is why I saw different behavior between them. David Brooks (talk) 00:23, 3 May 2022 (UTC)

Vector-2022 sidebar not clickable in Edge
Subject line says it. Using Edge (version 101.0.1210.32), I can't click the TOC sidebar; also the "page-down" scrolling behavior switching between the sidebar and the main text is hard to describe or predict. The TOC does work as expected in Chrome, which is odd because the two browsers share an engine. Sorry, but I don't know of a better place to record skin problems. David Brooks (talk) 13:30, 2 May 2022 (UTC)
 * DavidBrooks, T307360 <span id="Alexis_Jazz:1651500314640:WikipediaFTTCLNVillage_pump_(technical)" class="FTTCmt">— Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 14:05, 2 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Now T307271. — xaosflux  Talk 14:09, 2 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Which is now fixed; thanks to the developers. I've been retired from the business too long, and I apologize for not also reporting my Chrome version, which was 100.0.4896.127. The Chromium (shared by Chrome and Edge) regression was introduced between those builds. David Brooks (talk) 00:20, 3 May 2022 (UTC)
 * @Xaosflux@DavidBrooks@Alexis Jazz Today, the same problem raised again in Edge. Hooman Mallahzadeh (talk) 09:07, 5 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the note, I see T307271 is reopen. — xaosflux  Talk 09:45, 5 May 2022 (UTC)
 * I'm not clear whether the WP HTML fix also works in the older browser releases (100.x) as well as 101.x, where the Chromium regression happened. Did the fix for 101 break 100? In any case, Hooman, it's probably worth while to check your Edge version. Use ..., Settings, About Microsoft Edge. David Brooks (talk) 16:21, 5 May 2022 (UTC)
 * @DavidBrooks This problem raised today temporarily, for about 4 or 5 hours. But now in my version of Edge browser (Version 101.0.1210.32 (Official build) (64-bit)), ToC links are clickable, too. Thanks for your reply. Hooman Mallahzadeh (talk) 16:40, 5 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Happy to help. I believe Edge does quietly update itself when it's in the mood (it can take MS a few days to roll out updates of anything Windows-related). I'm on 101.0.1210.32. David Brooks (talk) 16:47, 5 May 2022 (UTC)

Map legend in different languages at thumb and full size
For some reason at thumbnail size the legend of File:2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine.svg at bottom left appears in English, but the full size shows legend in Russian. Is it fixable? Also, the names of smaller villages and towns are illegible even at full size, but this is for Graphics Lab, it seems. Brandmeistertalk  15:53, 1 May 2022 (UTC)


 * You are using Russian as interface language, not? <span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,red,yellow,cyan);color:transparent;background-clip:text;-webkit-background-clip:text">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh 16:09, 1 May 2022 (UTC)
 * No, it seems, the Render this image parameter below the image is set to English and in my Preferences, Internationalisation is set to en - English. Brandmeistertalk  16:16, 1 May 2022 (UTC)
 * After a while playing with it myself, I guess this is the intended behaviour, and that there are no bugs to be fixed. You can view any version by appending  to the URL. <span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,red,yellow,cyan);color:transparent;background-clip:text;-webkit-background-clip:text">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh  16:32, 1 May 2022 (UTC)
 * The original SVG file has text versions in multiple languages and your browser apparently chooses Russian. Mine chooses English. A thumb version is not an SVG file but a PNG rendered by MediaWiki which chooses English at the English Wikipedia, Russian at the Russian Wikipedia and French at the French Wikipedia (I didn't test the remaining languages in the SVG file). PNG is a purely graphical image format which doesn't support text in multiple languages. It doesnt support text at all but just displays an image which may contain symbols interpreted as text in some language. PrimeHunter (talk) 23:27, 3 May 2022 (UTC)
 * How odd, ok. Brandmeistertalk  18:30, 4 May 2022 (UTC)
 * It's determined by the browser and not MediaWiki when you view the original file. Your browser may have a way to set a list of preferred languages. My Firefox does. If you prefer English then you can examine browser settings or ask for help at Reference desk/Computing. Remember to name your browser. The setting can also affect multilingual websites. PrimeHunter (talk) 19:32, 5 May 2022 (UTC)
 * I use Firefox in Russian and now understand it, it seems. But on the other hand this is counter-intuitive and at first looks like odd behavior. Brandmeistertalk  19:40, 5 May 2022 (UTC)

Can the source editor's regex replace change case?
In some regex implementations, \U, \L, \I and \F change case (to upper, lower, intials and first, respectively). Does the regex replace in WP's source editor do that? Cheers. — Guarapiranga ☎ 11:57, 3 May 2022 (UTC)


 * No, since they are not supported by JS regex. <span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,red,yellow,cyan);color:transparent;background-clip:text;-webkit-background-clip:text">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh 13:10, 3 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Wouldn't testing it be a quicker way of knowing? Izno (talk) 17:34, 3 May 2022 (UTC)
 * I did, of course, thank you. My question was whether it had any particular, perhaps undocumented, syntax that did that. — Guarapiranga ☎ 23:53, 5 May 2022 (UTC)
 * You can do some things by replacing with a subst expression using string templates. See e.g. Template:String-handling templates. PrimeHunter (talk) 18:14, 3 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Right! Hadn't thought of that, PrimeHunter. Thanks.P.S.: Actually, this is what I needed. — Guarapiranga ☎ 23:55, 5 May 2022 (UTC)

Java/Google Script help (not related to Wikipedia)
After the help I got here I was able to make this script work. Is anyone crafty enough to point me how to rewrite it in a more elegant way so I don't have to rewrite lines like I've already done? - Klein Muçi (talk) 00:23, 5 May 2022 (UTC)


 * VPT is not a general support forum. Either return to the reference desk or try one of the many other forums on the Internet. Izno (talk) 01:31, 5 May 2022 (UTC)
 * @Klein Muçi the link doesn't work for me.
 * While i do think generally the VPT should be restricted to wikipedia, I'm not totally opposed to this request because there are many people here who would know how to fix it but dont watch that page. Besides, the ratio of Wikimedia to non wikimedia stuff Klein posts on here is very very very high so I don't think one off topic request is a bad thing. Rlink2 (talk) 01:58, 5 May 2022 (UTC)
 * @Izno, is the Reference Desk located so far from the VPT as to treat like a whole different place? Just to be clear I was surprised myself when I heard about the existence of the ref-desk in the computing aspect in here (EnWiki) which basically replicated Stack Overflow, and it did take me quite some reading through its archives to make sure it was really supposed to work like that. For your personal curiosity, the whole thing is in fact 90% "related" to Wikimedia because of this and MediaWiki Gerrit notifications. It's been a while I'm struggling to deal with the large amount of emails from Wikimedia outlets. See T300030 and this discussion to see what I mean. I get around 500-1000 emails per month just in regard to Wikimedia projects. You can also see this discussion with my attempts in automatic watchlist expirations and even my big support for such a feature in the 2022 Wishlist (ironically my vote is just behind yours), all attempts to cull the number of emails I get in an organic manner.
 * @Rlink2, maybe this one will? - Klein Muçi (talk) 02:33, 5 May 2022 (UTC)
 * is the Reference Desk located so far from the VPT as to treat like a whole different place? Unequivocally. The reference desks are barely tolerated. VPT is for technical discussion focused on English Wikipedia. Izno (talk) 03:48, 5 May 2022 (UTC)
 * The reference desks are barely tolerated. - I wasn't aware of this reality at all. I will be more careful in regard to that aspect now. - Klein Muçi (talk) 07:54, 5 May 2022 (UTC)
 * I think in the future a notice saying "intrested people might be able to answer the question at the reference desk" so all discussion happens there, while still notifying the people that could answer the question. Again, 99% of people would probably be happy to answer anywhere, but just to keep 100% happy that is probably the best approach. And no one has identified any issues with him posting this here, all thats being said is that "its offtopic". Its kinda of like saying WP:IDONTLIKEIT. If someone thinks something is a problem, identify why it is a problem instead of just saying "its a problem". The time spent on saying "off topic" could be used to type out "its off topic, but i solved your question anyway here you go."


 * I think Klein's post was acceptable because there is no way I would have known if he hadn't posted here. Because of his post, we got the problem fixed - at the end of the day Wikipedia is not a real life or a beucracrcy, we don't need to follow rules 100% exactly. Rlink2 (talk) 23:54, 5 May 2022 (UTC)
 * I'm sure user Izno was only acting in good faith in protecting the integrity of the VPT domain. We have had the chance to stumble on each-other on some discussions around EnWiki on the past and I'm sure he also respects me the same as I do respect him and his contributions on this project.
 * I was trying to get "straight to the point" with my title thinking that it would be a trivial deed which wouldn't require too much work and words (hence also the 2 lines of text below it) but some titles can be provocative and maybe coupled with the fact that the provided link (which should have brought more context) wasn't working, the post may have appeared a bit too "alienated" with this place.
 * I already got my help thanks to you though so I suppose we can also end this discussion here if nothing else is to be added. Cheers! :) - Klein Muçi (talk) 02:05, 6 May 2022 (UTC)
 * @Klein Muçi still not working, says its "private" Rlink2 (talk) 12:42, 5 May 2022 (UTC)
 * @Rlink2, hmm... I'll continue this conversation on your talk page if that's okay with you. - Klein Muçi (talk) 12:44, 5 May 2022 (UTC)

New "named" group
As of 778684, there is now an implicit "named" group; currently, it applies to all users. This is causing issues in some scripts, but seems to be intended behavior on MW's end, so I haven't filed a Phab task about it. If someone does think it's unintended behavior, they're free to file.

What it does mean, though, is that a number of scripts need to be updated to exclude "named" as a meaningful group, just like they exclude "user" and often "autoconfirmed", perhaps most notably Navigation popups. I'll try to get to that and User:PleaseStand/userinfo.js presently, but I'm sure there's others. -- Tamzin  [ cetacean needed ] (she/they) 12:12, 5 May 2022 (UTC) PAGE ]]) 14:55, 6 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Okay, looks like this is being disabled for now. Still might be a good idea to cover these bases before it does go into effect as part of IP masking. --  Tamzin  [ cetacean needed ] (she/they) 12:45, 5 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Self-closing. Tim said the name "named" may change, so there's nothing that can be done now, script-update-wise. --  Tamzin  [ cetacean needed ] (she/they) 12:51, 5 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Unclosed for more comments. — xaosflux  Talk 13:48, 5 May 2022 (UTC)
 * I was about to unclose this myself, as based on further conversation with Tim, it does look like "named" will be final as the internal name, with the default message for the name still TBD (maybe "registered user"). --  Tamzin  [ cetacean needed ] (she/they) 13:52, 5 May 2022 (UTC)
 * I initiated the local messages and updated the most popular gadget (navpopups) using this to put the name "Named user" on it, and not to populate navpopups with this. — xaosflux  Talk 13:48, 5 May 2022 (UTC)
 * This is a stopgap, expect we can revert once the train comes around again and use "Registered user" or whatever it will be. — xaosflux  Talk 15:32, 5 May 2022 (UTC)
 * This is confusing nomenclature. What exactly is a "named user" as opposed to just a "user"? I believe all "users" are registered accounts, so what's the difference from "named user"? Themaxtiger (talk) 15:56, 5 May 2022 (UTC)
 * @Themaxtiger In a few months/years editors that aren't logged in are going to be identified by pseudo-anonymous names rather than IP addresses (for some kind of privacy reason that hasn't really been explained), so instead of the software having groups "all" (for both IPs and logged in editors) and "users" (for registered accounts) they're going to have groups that will be something like "registered users/named users" and "unregistered users/anonymous users". This should be a mostly behind the scenes change, We'll probably have to fix a few edit filters and the like but most things where this is used (like determining whether you have the right to perform an action) should be updated by the devs. 192.76.8.77 (talk) 18:44, 5 May 2022 (UTC)
 * for some kind of privacy reason that hasn't really been explained → see this on meta. It gives two reasons: preventing unsavory governments from finding out who made certain edits, and something about privacy norms related to RGPD (it’s not clear from the text if Legal believes that posting the IP addresses could be a legal problem, or if they think the spirit of RGPD means there is some societal pressure to mask it).
 * IMO the most likely attack model is not government actors. Rather, if Alice shares a household or at least a computer with Bob (she could be a spouse, roommate, parent...), she can easily see what edits Bob made, retrieving Bob’s IP address with access to the computer takes little technical skill. (I know, IP rotate with DHCP etc. but Alice can at least find out a good portion of Bob’s edits.) Tigraan <span title="Send me a silicium letter!" style="color:">Click here for my talk page ("private" contact) 13:26, 6 May 2022 (UTC)
 * If Bob is so worried about his abusive relationship with Alice, he can sign up for a free account. --Ahecht ([[User talk:Ahecht|<span style="color:#FFF;background:#04A;display:inline-block;padding:1px;vertical-align:-.3em;font:bold 50%/1 sans-serif;text-align:center">TALK

Sandbox page in categories
User:Skyblueshaun/sandbox2 is being artificially transcluded via template into three articlespace categories; however, as WP:USERNOCAT strictly prohibits this, I have to disable or remove the categories from the page, but I can't figure out what templates the categories are coming from: none of the navigational boxes seem to be transcluding any categories that I can see, so I tried wrapping Infobox football club season in Suppress categories on the theory that the categories were coming from there, but that didn't work either. Can somebody determine where the categories are coming from so that the page can be removed from them somehow? Thanks. Bearcat (talk) 14:12, 6 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Fixed in Special:Diff/1086498714 * Pppery * <sub style="color:#800000">it has begun... 14:17, 6 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Probably from Module:Sports table. Gonnym (talk) 14:17, 6 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Actually it wasn't from that module, but from a transclsuion of the entire article 2022–23 EFL League One. The approach I used to find the categories was to run  through Special:ExpandTemplates and the Ctrl-F for "Category:" * Pppery * <sub style="color:#800000">it has begun...  14:19, 6 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Bearcat (talk) 14:52, 6 May 2022 (UTC)

Unfortunately, now I've got another case: User:Ɱ/sandbox and User:Ɱ/sandbox29 are both displaying in. I tried using the tool mentioned above to solve this myself, but both pages are such utter profusions of templates upon templates that I just can't make heads or tails of the results in order to know where to throw a Suppress categories wrapper. Help? Bearcat (talk) 15:31, 6 May 2022 (UTC)
 * in Special:Diff/1086509364 * Pppery * <sub style="color:#800000">it has begun... 15:33, 6 May 2022 (UTC)

And now User:Mdale/wikitrust.js, which is showing up in — but since it's obviously a user's javascript settings file rather than a sandbox, I don't know how to fix it at all since it's not a conventional category declaration and the page is protected at a usergroup level ("interface administrator") that I don't think I have, but the page still can't be left in an articlespace category. Bearcat (talk) 15:39, 6 May 2022 (UTC)
 * User talk:Mdale/wikitrust.js. For what it's worth you indeed don't have interface administrator access. Thank you for doing this cleanup, by the way. * Pppery * <sub style="color:#800000">it has begun... 15:45, 6 May 2022 (UTC)

Google Indexing User Sandbox Pages
Was somewhat alarmed to see Google indexing User Sandbox pages e.g. This one. I typically use this as an incubation page before getting articles to minimum standards for mainspace. But, this one was somewhat surprising almost alarming. Ktin (talk) 03:37, 5 May 2022 (UTC)


 * Hard to say, as it is now moved and the search results already updated. But in general, Google considers almost everything a hint. Like noindex, is used by them as 'index but do not return in results'. And I'm pretty sure that if you are specific enough and its search ranking is high enough for what you are looking for it might STILL bring it to the surface. —Th e DJ (talk • contribs) 08:59, 5 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Yup. Hard to say. Still seems to be returning the sandbox result. https://www.google.com/search?q=david+walden+wiki Ktin (talk) 16:21, 5 May 2022 (UTC)
 * You could consider putting at the top of all your sandbox pages. This will apply the   magic word. But be aware that once Google has indexed any page, it's difficult to persuade them to unindex it - whilst they may act on a page being changed from normal to NOINDEX, it's certainly not instantaneous. More at WP:NOINDEX. -- Red rose64 &#x1f339; (talk) 22:37, 6 May 2022 (UTC)

Is iCloud Private Relay the likely cause of my IP address being blocked from editing?
On different days, trying to edit different articles, when using the Safari browser, I was always receiving the "This IP address has been blocked from editing Wikipedia" message. I do not receive the message when using Chrome.

I'm on a Macbook Air m1 (2020); macOS Monterey 12.3.1 (21E258); Safari Version 15.4 (17613.1.17.1.13) [most recent, up-to-date versions].

If I google "What is my IP" on Safari I get an IPv6 address (xxxx:xxxx:xxxx:xxx::xx:xxx); on Chrome I get an IPv4 address (xx.xxx.xx.xxx). That might be normal - I don't know much about how this works.

I might have fixed the problem, but I'm not sure. I realized that iCloud Private Relay might be the problem. So I changed the Safari privacy setting [Safari > Preferences > Privacy > Hide IP address] from “From Trackers and Websites” to “From Trackers Only”. I closed Safari and then opened it. I no longer received the "this IP address has been blocked" message. Interestingly, when I changed the privacy setting back to "From Trackers and Websites" I was still good, i.e., I'm not blocked. (I spoke too soon. The block returned after 20 minutes. I have now changed it back to "From Trackers Only" where it will stay so that I can edit Wikipedia using Safari.)

Is iCloud Private Relay the likely culprit? If so, then I know what to do if this happens again! :)

Many thanks - Mark D Worthen PsyD (talk) [he/him] 07:15, 4 May 2022 (UTC)


 * You will probably want to tune in to the discussion at meta:Talk:No open proxies/Unfair blocking and some set of the Phabricator tasks in this search. Izno (talk) 07:19, 4 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Ah, thank you Izno. Now that I know what to search for, I found this also, in the Village pump archives: Effect of Apple’s iCloud Private Relay. Much appreciated - Mark D Worthen PsyD (talk) [he/him] 07:23, 4 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Yes, we broadly block editing (not reading) from proxies and VPN's. You should turn that off here. —  xaosflux  Talk 15:05, 4 May 2022 (UTC)
 * You can't turn it off "here". You have to turn it off "everywhere, including in situations that most internet-savvy people consider to involve bigger-than-usual privacy risks".  There is no way to use that service only for certain websites and not for others. Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 18:40, 4 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Maybe something like: Close your other tabs, switch off your Private Relay, edit Wikipedia, then turn Private Relay back on. Alternatively, just use another browser to edit here. And I'd just add that yes, it probably is the cause. Your experience varies because some Private Relay addresses are blocked, and some are not. -- zzuuzz (talk) 19:07, 4 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Hmm, doesn't this feature you enabled only work with Safari? Perhaps use a different browser for sites you don't want to run through Apple's proxy? —  xaosflux  Talk 13:03, 6 May 2022 (UTC)
 * That would be a solution for people like me, who normally keep multiple web browsers open anyway. I don't think it's practical for mobile editors or less tech-savvy people, though.  You'd have to correctly guess what the cause is and guess that switching browsers would change your IP address (=a non-standard behavior). Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 20:47, 6 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Isn't the standard behavior not to use that VPN? You have to both be a paying customer and opt-in for it? Perhaps we can improve some of our block messages to hint people about this. Looks like we have some hints in CDNblock, but not in Colocationwebhost - both of which I'm seeing on some of these blocks. @Markworthen - are you getting more in the block message than just "This IP address has been blocked from editing Wikipedia"? —  xaosflux  Talk 21:14, 6 May 2022 (UTC)
 * @User:Xaosflux - Nothing else. Adding info about iCloud Private Relay and similar "innocent" causes would forestall frustration and perhaps reduce support requests. Given our ongoing struggle to attract and retain good editors, improving usability is a worthwhile goal. Mark D Worthen PsyD (talk) [he/him] 01:53, 7 May 2022 (UTC)

Bot issue
I've caught an issue with a bot that may need somebody here to fix. It's not a "permanently deprecate the bot entirely" level of crisis or anything, but it does need some attention.

User:Jura1/pages with Wikidata items without any statements is a report page, automatically generated by User:ListeriaBot to keep track of a maintenance issue. It seems like a perfectly legitimate and useful list in principle — but the problem is that if one of the pages it picks up corresponds to a category, then it just lists the category like an article and causes that workpage to be filed in the category instead of just linking to the category. However, pages like that aren't supposed to be filed in articlespace categories at all, meaning that I have to remove or disable the categories — but then ListeriaBot will undo any changes I make to the list the next time it runs that job, and thus throw the page right back into categories it isn't supposed to be in again.

But ListeriaBot's primary owner hasn't edited Wikipedia since December 2021, so I don't know if leaving a talk page message for them would reach them or not.

So does anybody know if User:Magnus Manske is actually active and just not contributing here that much, or can anybody else go into ListeriaBot themselves, to ensure that if ListeriaBot has to output a category to a worklist for whatever reason, it does so as a disabled text link (e.g. leading colon or the cl template) so that the worklist doesn't get categorized as an article? Thanks. Bearcat (talk) 13:09, 6 May 2022 (UTC)


 * @Bearcat that user has edited globally as recently as yesterday - so yse, you should start by asking on the botop's talk page (perhaps post at User talk:ListeriaBot and leave a message on the botop talk page pointing to it). — xaosflux  Talk 13:12, 6 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Okay, thanks, I didn't know how to check whether Magnus was still active on other projects or not. If he is, I'll just approach him directly. Thanks. Bearcat (talk) 13:15, 6 May 2022 (UTC)
 * FWIW to check if a user has edited recently, see their global contributions linked from the contribs page (example). Graham 87 08:53, 7 May 2022 (UTC)

Global vector.js
I used to put in vector.js the scripts I wanted on the desktop, but not on the mobile (is that the best way?). Now, I've decided to migrate it all to my global (meta.WM) profile, as I've started to contribute more to non-enwiki. I've tried the same 'trick' there, but to no avail. Is there a global equivalent to skin specific js files? How does one separate mobile vs desktop scripts, globally? Cheers. — Guarapiranga ☎ 11:59, 6 May 2022 (UTC)


 * @Guarapiranga you can't do exactly what you want. You centralwiki:User:global.(js|css) is a uniquely special page.  You can read more about it here: mw:Help:Extension:GlobalCssJs.  You can put conditionals or more specific class items in it (e.f. mw:Help:Extension:GlobalCssJs).  In general you can select mobile or not mobile best by applying things to the minerva skin. —  xaosflux  Talk 12:24, 6 May 2022 (UTC)
 * That clears it, @Xaosflux. Cheers. Specifically, FWIMC:My solution then is to bracket everything with  for now, and progressively pull out the stuff I want to see on the mobile too. Probably also a better solution than what I was doing for lang specific common.js. Thanks. — Guarapiranga ☎ 12:39, 6 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Unless you change skin setting, you have three places to put user scripts, all are linked from :
 * Special:MyPage/skin.js - for scripts specific to one skin on one wiki
 * Special:MyPage/common.js - for scripts suitable for all skins on one wiki
 * m:Special:MyPage/global.js - for scripts suitable for all skins on all wikis
 * In each case, there is a corresponding .css page available. There is no provision for skin-specific pages shared by all wikis. Regarding your JavaScript code snippet, the technique for m:Special:MyPage/global.css would be different - each skin-specific rule would, in general, need to have each of its selectors prefixed with  - note the trailing space. So a rule like   would become   HTH. -- Red rose64 &#x1f339; (talk) 13:56, 7 May 2022 (UTC)

Is the clock right?
Hey, Village Pump Tech folks,

I have a clock in the upper-righthand corner of my browser window and lately, the time has been off by, I'm guessing, 10-20 seconds. For example, if the clock states that it is 10:49:40 UTC and I make an edit, the edit summary on the page states that it occurred at 10:50. I've only noticed this happening recently. I checked in my Preferences and I think the clock is Gadget-UTCLiveClock.js so I've left a message at the MediaWiki talk page but I thought I'd mention it here in case anyone noticed that their clocks were a bit off. Also, the time moves at an inconsistent speed, some seconds pass by quicker than others for some reason. I really don't spend my time on Wikipedia watching the clock but some tasks are time-sensitive and the time an edit happens is important. Or could this just be my laptop? Thanks for any clue you can bring to my query. Liz <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">Read! Talk! 02:07, 7 May 2022 (UTC)
 * I am curious which non bot tasks on Wikipedia are so time sensitive that 10-20 seconds will make a difference? ಮಲ್ನಾಡಾಚ್ ಕೊಂಕ್ಣೊ (talk) 05:31, 7 May 2022 (UTC)
 * There are a few possible factors here:
 * The gadget shows the time set on your local computer, which may be off. Wikimedia's servers most likely use Network Time Protocol to set accurate time.
 * If your edit takes 10 to 20 seconds after hitting "submit" to travel the Internet and be processed and saved, that could also make the difference.
 * As for the "some seconds pass quicker", again it's running on your laptop. Your browser may be delaying or skipping some of the updates of the display, particularly if other programs are using a lot of CPU. There's also the possibility that the stopped-clock illusion plays a part.
 * HTH. Anomie⚔ 11:22, 7 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Try going to https://time.gov/. NIST is the authoritative source for time in the US (and a major collaborator in the international pool of time reference sources).  They're telling me that my system clock is off by -0.019s.  No wonder I'm always showing up late for meetings :-)  I'd be surprised if anybody's system clock was off by more than a fraction of a second.  NTP is totally ubiquitous these days, and most operating systems come with it enabled out of the box.
 * You can call +1 303 499 7111 to hear the time signal on your phone. In the old days, this was an exceptionally accurate way to get the time.  These days, I'm not so sure.  Calls today often use VOIP, which introduces all sorts of network delays.  The signal was certainly accurate when it left the transmitter in Ft. Collins, Colorado, but who knows what happens by the time it comes out of your cell phone speaker.  If you have a shortwave receiver, you can listen to WWV (or similar stations around the world).
 * Sorry, I've digressed. Can you tell I'm a time freak?  But seriously, go to time.gov to see if your system clock is set right. -- RoySmith (talk) 14:47, 7 May 2022 (UTC)

JS equivalent of FULLPAGENAME
Were I on, say, the Portuguese Wikipedia, what MediaWiki Javascript function can I use to parse an arbitrary string (e.g ) and get the same result as   ?

I'm aware of  but it requires a second argument to specify namespace. I need a high-performant one so  is not an option either. 15:03, 7 May 2022 (UTC)
 * mw.Title.newFromText(':uSuÁrIo : example').toText – SD0001  (talk) 15:54, 7 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Thanks! <span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,red,yellow,cyan);color:transparent;background-clip:text;-webkit-background-clip:text">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh 16:19, 7 May 2022 (UTC)

Way to access infobox and templates without "View this page" (V) button
Is there any way to access infobox and other templates without "View this page" (V) button without need to go to "Edit" then copy name of template and search Template: + name of template? Eurohunter (talk) 09:53, 7 May 2022 (UTC)


 * I get a list of all templates used in an article below the edit box. —Kusma (talk) 10:21, 7 May 2022 (UTC)
 * That only happens if you use the edit tab for the whole page. If you edit a section, the template list only appears if you use the button while editing. -- Red rose64 &#x1f339; (talk) 18:41, 7 May 2022 (UTC)
 * "Page information" under Tools shows up to 50 transcluded pages but we often have far more. The edit tab for the whole page has a complete list under "Pages transcluded onto the current version of this page" at the bottom of the edit window. You may have to click a small triangle to see the list. PrimeHunter (talk) 21:31, 7 May 2022 (UTC)

Italic titles
Infobox album is forcing an italic title at Poison box sets which I can't turn off by applying  or with DISPLAYTITLE. Can someone help me out please? Shhhnotsoloud (talk) 08:49, 8 May 2022 (UTC)
 * The cause is Italic title; I have removed it. <span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,red,yellow,cyan);color:transparent;background-clip:text;-webkit-background-clip:text">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh 09:11, 8 May 2022 (UTC)
 * I couldn't see the wood for the trees. Thank you! Shhhnotsoloud (talk) 09:36, 8 May 2022 (UTC)

Importing Wikipedia dump on Windows
Hello, I would like to conduct some research on Wikipedia, but appeared that there is no documentation on how to import it into MySQL, at least for Windows case. I'm stuck with converting XML-file into SQL-file. Could somebody help me out with this? --Igor Yalovecky (talk) 16:30, 7 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Depending what information you want, dumps are available both in SQL and in XML. Beware that some files are very large.  More information: WP:DUMP, which has several useful links. Certes (talk) 17:30, 7 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Even better, meta:Data dumps. And "very large" is an understatement.  The most recent full dump for enwiki is 1.8 TB for the compressed files.  Importing this into your typical desktop PC just isn't going to be practical.  For most people, a more useful strategy would be to get a Cloud VPS or Toolforge account and access the data that way, either by using the on-line dump files, or by executing queries against the database replicas.  Be aware, however, that there is a bit of a learning curve to this. -- RoySmith (talk) 02:57, 8 May 2022 (UTC)
 * @Igor Yalovecky Does MySQL "Load XML" not do what you want?
 * I know that I risk getting flamed by free software advocates (I understand, I really do)... But FYI, Microsoft SQL server has had a free version (for both development and production) for a few releases now -- and it has a true XML datatype that works pretty well. Unfortunately, the free version of MS SQL is limited to a 10GB database.  For about $700, you can get the Standard edition, which us limited to ... um .... a 524 petabyte database size....  If you have that much storage!  This probably didn't help much, sorry. 73.127.147.187 (talk) 10:10, 8 May 2022 (UTC)

About previously deleted versions of an article
If I look at for example Günter Bechly, I see a kind of deletion-log, info about old deleted versions.

However, can I, a non-admin, see this info for an article currently in main-space? For example, I recreated Christoph Steidl Porenta, which had been deleted (for good reason, WP:G11) a couple of times, but afaict, these deletions can't be seen at Revision history, Page statistics or Page information. I think it was briefly visible when I started the draft or when I moved the draft to mainspace, though.

I'm not after a WP:REFUND, I'm just curious about seeing the "facts" like at the Bechly link. Can I, somewhere, or are they admin-only? Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 09:55, 8 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Yes; see [ page logs]. Note that the logs were recorded at Draft:Christoph Steidl Porenta, not Christoph Steidl Porenta. <span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,red,yellow,cyan);color:transparent;background-clip:text;-webkit-background-clip:text">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh 10:08, 8 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Ah, tricky. Thanks! Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 10:43, 8 May 2022 (UTC)

Module:Graph bundle interpolation curvature index (beta)
I've added the following question at Module talk:Graph, but since the edit notice there suggests posting it here (as that page is not watched by as many users), I'm copying it here too: — Preceding unsigned comment added by Guarapiranga (talk • contribs) 13:35, 6 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Code in software that WMF uses and is maintained by other parties is not changed by the WMF or any volunteer of WMF. This would be fixed by the Vega or D3 team. There is some work that exists to upgrade Vega to Vega 3, see T223026, but no WMF team is responsible for Vega/Graph right now. Only an developer can answer the D3 question, so please lets keep this discussion to the issue at hand and not try to figure out some fixes in Vega/D3 codebase. For those that are curious, Module:Graph uses Vega, which in turn uses D3.--Snævar (talk) 16:41, 6 May 2022 (UTC)
 * What's to fix, ? I just asked whether Module:Graph had the beta parameter already in d3 (not sure about Vega--couldn't find anything about it in its docs). If not, I aimed at inspiring someone to add it in (I looked through the code, but it wasn't evident to me where it would fit in). — Guarapiranga ☎ 04:42, 7 May 2022 (UTC)
 * First, test if this also is the case in recent Vega (putting the Module:Graph invoke into Special:ExpandTemplates, removing the graph tags and copying that into Vega editor will suffice). Secondly, if it is also an issue there, report it in vega/D3 bugtrackers, it is upto them to fix it.--Snævar (talk) 07:26, 8 May 2022 (UTC)
 * I don't have an "issue," ; there's nothing to "fix" (that I can see). It's really an enhancement that I'm after. Module:Graph is working splendidly, but it could work even better if editors were able to specify the beta parameter in the bundle interpolation, so that trends could be made less "erratic" than this, as pointed out here.
 * I tried your exercise, but I'm afraid I failed. Copying over the expanded template (in between  tags) into the Vega editor gave me a bunch of warnings and errors. I'm clearly not doing this right. I was able, though, to load up their own example, add the bundle interpolation there (which was oddly missing among all the others present), and make the curve change. Again, I couldn't figure out where to stick in a beta there. The d3 doc (is Vega a d3 wrapper?) only says to call it like this, e.g.:Cheers. — Guarapiranga ☎ 11:42, 8 May 2022 (UTC)

160s
Hello, all. I ran across an odd issue on this article. Attempting to edit the section "Births" or "Deaths" section redirects me to editing Module:For nowiki (technically, I'm trying to edit it but it's protected). Can anyone else reproduce this issue? If so, I'm curious if this feels like a MW bug or a module issue. I'm not very familiar with the module system in general so I hesitate to report it to Phab if it's a local issue. ~ Matthewrb  Talk to me &middot;  Changes I've made 07:16, 8 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Those two sections are transcluded from other pages, per the hatnotes at their tops. The template performs the transclusion and generates those two headings. -- Red rose64 &#x1f339; (talk) 07:48, 8 May 2022 (UTC)
 * The headings should definitely be fixed. Events by year for decade manages to create edit links for the specific sections, and avoid the edit link for its heading, so probably something similar needs to be done for Births and deaths by year for decade Galobtter (pingó mió) 07:51, 8 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Thank you both. It looks like Events by year for decade is a module, while Births and deaths by year for decade uses template markup.  Wonder if that's related?  Like I said, I don't understand modules very well... ~  Matthewrb  Talk to me &middot;  Changes I've made 16:19, 8 May 2022 (UTC)

Broken move request involving draft
I definitely am doing something wrong here. I want to request a move from a draft article, to its former article status, but my move request in the Requested moves/Technical requests definitely broke something. Where is the proper avenue/way to request this move? ~ 🦝 Shushugah (he/him • talk) 18:14, 8 May 2022 (UTC)
 * I fixed it. The issue was with the space character. -Kj cheetham (talk) 18:15, 8 May 2022 (UTC)

? in URL
An interesting observation was made about an external MediaWiki-based wiki in relation to a wrong URL, and it can happen here, too. If a title containing a question mark is pasted into a page URL, it and anything at follows will be dropped, but it will still appear in the website if the visited page is not a redirect. –<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b> ( d c̄ ) 04:02, 9 May 2022 (UTC)
 * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page (goes to the redirect Index.php &rarr; Web server directory index)
 * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arsenic?title=Main_Page (goes to the article Arsenic)
 * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/?_(film) (goes to Main Page)
 * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%3F_(film) (goes to ? (film))
 * That is the intended behaviour. Our  is   and that overrides the value of   parameter, if any. In your third example, the   mark is treated as the start of URL query string, and since   is not followed by any value (and is not supported by MediaWiki itself), the rest gets ignored. Meanwhile, that of the fourth is encoded and hence not a part of query string (i.e. a   mark literally/as-is). <span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,red,yellow,cyan);color:transparent;background-clip:text;-webkit-background-clip:text">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh  04:36, 9 May 2022 (UTC)

Help with quarry
I am trying to create a query that will get a list of IP talkpages that; have not been edited in the last 5 years, the IP is not currently blocked and there have been no edits from that IP in the last 5 years. I have individual queries to get list of IP talkpages, check if an IP is blocked, check if an IP has edited after a timestamp and check whether a page has received edits after a timestamp. I tried to combine all 4 of these to work together at query/64344 but not having any luck. ಮಲ್ನಾಡಾಚ್ ಕೊಂಕ್ಣೊ (talk) 11:20, 7 May 2022 (UTC)
 * WT:Quarry is a good place to ask, but I've had a go in query/64387. I've joined to the current revision rather than having a subquery check for all recent ones, and used the revision_userindex alternative view for efficiency when checking for edits to other pages.  It doesn't detect range blocks; that would naively need , except that doesn't work: 1.2.100.0 is textually between 1.2.0.0 and 1.2.3.255 but unaffected by a block on that range.  You'd need to do some intricate string manipulation to pad with zeroes.  This won't be a quick query – we have a lot of IP editors – and may need splitting with   etc.  (Beware that most IPv6s begin with 20.) Certes (talk) 13:47, 7 May 2022 (UTC)
 * thanks for the effort. For IP ranges, I tested query/64379; it seems like it is possible to check if an IP is between a range by converting it to hexadecimal using . ಮಲ್ನಾಡಾಚ್ ಕೊಂಕ್ಣೊ (talk) 16:50, 7 May 2022 (UTC)
 * I have forked and created query/64398 to check for range blocks as well, but it takes a long time to execute even when the first octet is specified. ಮಲ್ನಾಡಾಚ್ ಕೊಂಕ್ಣೊ (talk) 12:23, 9 May 2022 (UTC)

Tech News: 2022-19
<section begin="technews-2022-W19"/> Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Recent changes
 * You can now see categories in the Wikipedia app for Android.

Problems
 * Last week, there was a problem with Wikidata's search autocomplete. This has now been fixed.
 * Last week, all wikis had slow access or no access for 20 minutes, for logged-in users and non-cached pages. This was caused by a problem with a database change.

Changes later this week
 * There is no new MediaWiki version this week.
 * Incompatibility issues with Kartographer and the FlaggedRevs extension will be fixed: Deployment is planned for May 10 on all wikis. Kartographer will then be enabled on the five wikis which have not yet enabled the extension on May 24.
 * The Vector (2022) skin will be set as the default on several more wikis, including Arabic and Catalan Wikipedias. Logged-in users will be able to switch back to the old Vector (2010). See the latest update about Vector (2022).

Future meetings
 * The next open meeting with the Web team about Vector (2022) will take place on 17 May. The following meetings are currently planned for: 7 June, 21 June, 5 July, 19 July.

Tech news prepared by Tech News writers and posted by bot • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe. <section end="technews-2022-W19"/>

15:20, 9 May 2022 (UTC)

Template query, add to category based on blank parameters
Hey, is it possible for a template to add pages to a category if it creates a table that only has one row? The template generates rows based on rotten_tomatoesN and metacritcN, so maybe something like if both of those with 2 in place of N is blank, then add to category or error, but not sure if possible to implement. Posted on talk page of the template three weeks ago (Template_talk:Television_critical_response) and no response so hope you can help please? Thanks, Indagate (talk) 18:02, 9 May 2022 (UTC)


 * I think the problem is at Module:Television_critical_response where it checks whether #SeasonEntries is 1. This would work well if table SeasonEntries were a sequence with numeric keys 1, 2...  However, it has string keys "1", "2"..., so the # operator spots that there is no numeric key 1 and returns 0. Certes (talk) 18:37, 9 May 2022 (UTC)
 * @Certes Ah ok, thanks for responding, would it work if replace L-233 with "if not rotten_tomatoes2 or metacritic2 or cinemascore2 then"? Instead of saying if seasonentries = 1, we're saying if content is not added for a row, then add to category. Or is it possible to change the string keys to numeric keys? Indagate (talk) 19:50, 9 May 2022 (UTC)
 * That should work, or you could try copying from Module:Television critical response/sandbox which I just created. Someone who knows the application area better than me should test it first!  Certes (talk) 19:59, 9 May 2022 (UTC)
 * I think we need the sandbox version because we can legitimately have series "numbers" such as "3S" for special episodes (e.g. Sherlock). I've assumed that we want to detect single rows, not rows with a maximum series number of 1 (which might be 1 + 1S or similar). Certes (talk) 20:18, 9 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Thanks, created Template:Television critical response/sandbox and tested in preview mode for a few articles and doesn't break anything Indagate (talk) 20:30, 9 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I've promoted the module sandbox. Certes (talk) 21:02, 9 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Thanks, looks to be working now, just picking up single uses where it's nested so will pick up if it gets used without in future Indagate (talk) 21:10, 9 May 2022 (UTC)

Automatic emoticon
In this edit, after clicking "save", they appeared two cows instead of I suppose it is the effect of an automatic substitution of text in emoticons. Could you check if it is just my problem or is related to some Mediawiki software bug? Thanks. --Ensahequ (talk) 19:19, 9 May 2022 (UTC)
 * I just did a null edit and nothing changed. (The symbols seem to be ☃ snowmen for me.)  I see that your edit also replaces double spaces by single spaces: perhaps you have something locally which enforces that preference and also generates unwanted emojis. Certes (talk) 19:46, 9 May 2022 (UTC)
 * IIRC this is a VisualEditor bug: WP:☃. <span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,red,yellow,cyan);color:transparent;background-clip:text;-webkit-background-clip:text">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh 22:21, 9 May 2022 (UTC)
 * See also this VPT thread from 2019 and . Preferences has an option to "Temporarily disable the visual editor while it is in beta", which I recommend for most editing until a pile of long-standing bugs are fixed. – Jonesey95 (talk) 03:37, 10 May 2022 (UTC)
 * And more mentions in the VE/Feedback archives, dating back to 2013, including a link to fr.WP's edit filter that tries to prevent these snowmen from being saved, and links to multiple phab tickets. – Jonesey95 (talk) 03:45, 10 May 2022 (UTC)

Can we automate the url-access parameter?
Web references on Wikipedia come optionally with a url-access parameter that warns the user of potential registeration/paywall to see the content. These days a lot of content online is behind such measures. Most references sadly do not contain this useful data. Could we somehow automate it? Maybe with Wikidata? Or just add it to refs with bot runs? How would you do it? --Palosirkka (talk) 12:26, 10 May 2022 (UTC)
 * I don't think this is actionable. Araik there are no hooks for code that would do what you suggest, and any such routine would be highly speculative and prone to false positives (and negatives). Also keep in mind that access status may not always be the same. 74.64.150.19 (talk) 12:47, 10 May 2022 (UTC)

Talk page appears in Google search results
What accounts for the Talk page of this article, but not the article page, appearing in the Google index?

In this Tea house discussion, OP asks about the recently created Carey R. Dunne article, and why a Google search turns up only the Talk page, providing the following link: https://www.google.com/search?q=carey+r+dunne+wiki&oq=carey+r+&aqs=chrome.0.69i59l3j69i57j0i512j69i60l3.1165j0j9&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

Checking their link, I can confirm that "Talk:Carey R. Dunne - Wikipedia" appears as Google's #2 result (and that the article page does not appear anywhere on the result page). Note that their search query includes the keyword "wiki" along with the article title, and dropping that keyword changes the results so that the Talk page result appears at #24 in the results, but still doesn't surface the article page. I thought our Talk pages weren't indexed at all, but that's clearly not true. Mathglot (talk) 22:32, 5 May 2022 (UTC)


 * @Mathglot Seems like Google is doing their best. That article is new, and is still unreviewed, if you patrol it it should become indexed and Google will likely give it precedence. —  xaosflux  Talk 23:07, 5 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Do we know (or can we guess) what property of the talk page makes it more attractive to Google than the article? I realise that search engines are requested not to index new articles, but I assume that applies to new (and old) talk pages too. Certes (talk) 23:58, 5 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Yes, that's what confused me, as well. Seems to me, any  metatag on a mainspace article should be automatically propagated to Talk. Maybe I should add a phab ticket about this? Mathglot (talk) 00:27, 6 May 2022 (UTC)  Tracked in . Mathglot (talk) 00:44, 6 May 2022 (UTC)
 * The Google hit is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft_talk:Carey_R._Dunne which redirects to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Carey_R._Dunne. But MediaWiki doesn't make normal url redirection like HTTP 301. Instead it has JavaScript which rewrites the url in browsers with JavaScript enabled, but doesn't reload the page afterwards. The content is loaded from the original url. You see the contents of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Carey_R._Dunne but you are actually on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft_talk:Carey_R._Dunne. I guess that's how Google treats it. PrimeHunter (talk) 01:29, 6 May 2022 (UTC)
 * I didn't completely follow your explanation about Google vs. Mediawiki, but let's start at the top with what we do know and control, namely, with which pages we tag as  and which ones we don't. Here's what we have currently (a 'yes' below means that the page code contains   on the page). Note the asymmetric distribution of "noindex" metatags among the four related articles:
 * Carey R. Dunne – yes
 * Talk:Carey R. Dunne – no
 * – yes (redirects to Carey R. Dunne)
 * – yes (redirects to Talk:Carey R. Dunne)
 * Given this situation, when you say "The Google hit is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft_talk:Carey_R._Dunn", how can that possibly be? Even a targeted site search query doesn't find the Draft page. So that theory (or at least, the first part of it, which I think I understood) can't be right. Mathglot (talk) 03:46, 6 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Why don't we add noindex,nofollow to Talk: pages, at least when the corresponding mainspace page has noindex,nofollow? Certes (talk) 11:56, 6 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Your links made with noredirect link to en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php. Our robots.txt at https://en.wikipedia.org/robots.txt says  so indexing is disallowed. robots.txt tells spiders like Googlebot that they shouldn't even visit the page to see whether it has noindex. At the English Wikipedia we can only control indexing for some links to en.wikipedia.org/wiki/. If you view https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft_talk:Carey_R._Dunne with JavaScript disabled in your browser then you see the contents of the redirect target https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Carey_R._Dunne but you still have the former url in the adress bar and there is no  . Normal Internet redirects use List of HTTP status codes, typically HTTP 301, and don't require JavaScript. A MediaWiki redirect is not a "real" redirect. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft_talk:Carey_R._Dunne gives HTTP 200. It can be checked with an external tool like https://www.redirect-checker.org/, or with a feature in many browsers. PrimeHunter (talk) 16:08, 6 May 2022 (UTC)
 * I can barely follow all this! Super technical. :( Llmeyers (talk) 18:51, 7 May 2022 (UTC)
 * If you ask me to mail you a copy of Alice in Wonderland, I can mail you a note to you saying, "Please ask me for Alice's Adventures in Wonderland". You would then ask me for Alice's Adventures in Wonderland and I'd mail you a copy of the book. This is the standard way to do redirection, and so any metadata associated with the request containing the correct name will be returned with the second envelope. Alternatively, I can just return Alice's Adventures in Wonderland directly to you, saving you from having to make another request. However since I've just pretended that the book has a different name, you're getting the reply envelope from the first request, Alice in Wonderland, but with the book Alice's Adventures in Wonderland inside. Google is still getting a response using a request to the Draft talk page, but with the contents of the article talk page, so it gets the article talk page inside the reply envelope for the Draft talk page. isaacl (talk) 20:08, 7 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Yes, the problem is that the article has  but the Talk: page (which you get whether you ask for Talk: or Draft talk:, due to the MediaWiki redirect) has not.  Should we be making Talk: pages more visible than their articles in that way? Certes (talk) 20:29, 7 May 2022 (UTC)
 * , I'm sorry, yes, it is quite technical in parts, and some of it is difficult for me to follow, as well. I think part of the confusion here, is that there are essentially two conversations going on here at once, and they aren't separated into separate subsections, but are interleaved together. One conversation, as I see it, is functional: "Here is what happens now; do we want it to happen that way?" Certes succinctly articulated the "what" question just above.
 * The other conversation is a "why" question: "Why is it happening this way now?" and the answer may have to do with technical issues concerning HTTP responses (how the internet handles moved pages), javascript, and Mediawiki software (Wikipedia runs on software created by the Wikimedia Foundation, which also supports Wiktionary, Wikiquote, and other sister projects).
 * Sidebar: As an aside on one technical point: the one "new bit" of info for me, was this: "A MediaWiki redirect is not a 'real' redirect." An HTTP 200 response is what your browser gets back when a page is FOUND on the internet; an HTTP 301 response is what you get when there is no content there, instead there is just a pointer to a page somewhere else. Let's say your browser asks for wikipedia's Georgeoia (i.e, the url in the browser address bar has the wikipedia domain address and that weird spelling at the end); instead of saying "NOT FOUND" and leave you staring at an error page, it could just send your browser an HTTP 301 and link you to the "Georgia" page instead. But apparently mediawiki "cheats", so to speak, and sends back a "HTTP 200" (FOUND!) even if the page is a redirect, and works out what page to show you on its own. The "cheating" part is related to the Phabricator ticket that Izno linked below.
 * But you don't need to know any of the technical stuff, which is basically about the "why-question", in order to participate here if you wish; just try to parse out which parts of it are about the "what-question", and just respond to that part. Hope this helps! Mathglot (talk) 21:14, 7 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Thank you Mathglot! This is helpful. Should I change anything on the article right now? Llmeyers (talk) 19:00, 8 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Hi Llmeyers, assuming you are talking about improving the Carey R. Dunne article, since this Village pump discussion is restricted to the topic of why a Wikipedia Talk page appears in search engine results, your question about the article is actually off-topic here, which may seem paradoxical, because it was your experience with the article that got this all started! So, I'd ask you to go to Talk:Carey R. Dunne, and ask your question there if you wish. Feel free to ping me or any user(s) you would like to invite to the discussion there.
 * If, on the other hand, you are asking about whether you need to change anything in the article in order to solve, or mitigate the Google Talk page indexing issue, then the answer is "no". Mathglot (talk) 19:53, 8 May 2022 (UTC)
 * I see. Thank you Mathglot! This clears it up. Llmeyers (talk) 13:20, 10 May 2022 (UTC)
 * @Llmeyers, was this "I can barely follow all this!..." meant to be a pun? I found it amusing. 73.127.147.187 (talk) 04:41, 9 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Sadly not a pun :D Llmeyers (talk) 13:21, 10 May 2022 (UTC)
 * For which the relevant task is phab:T53736. Izno (talk) 21:05, 7 May 2022 (UTC)
 * That's helpful, thanks. Mathglot (talk) 03:36, 8 May 2022 (UTC)
 * @Mathglot Right, I also thought that all talk pages had "noindex". (That's clear from my comment at the help desk (or TH).)  After reading this, and the Phab ticket, I must have been wrong.
 * Are user pages noindexed, to discourage people from putting their autobiographies there? Somewhere, I know that we tell people not to bother putting autobios in user pages, or maybe it's in sandboxes. Thanks. 73.127.147.187 (talk) 09:41, 8 May 2022 (UTC)
 * I wonder how many indexed autobiographies lurk on unloved talk pages. Certes (talk) 11:16, 8 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Here is a list of some google-indexed 'Talk' pages for biographies at Wikipedia. But this isn't a list of Talk pages whose mainspace page is not indexed, and I don't know a simple search to get that list. There appear to be about 233 of them indexed returned (at my default 50 results per page, SRP #5 shows 33 results). It's not at all clear to me what the common feature is of the Talk pages in that list. Mathglot (talk) 20:19, 8 May 2022 (UTC) Dropping the WikiProject from the query string returns almost the identical number of results, but the result set is almost completely disjoint from the result set of the biography search, so clearly they are not surfacing all the results they have. Mathglot (talk) 20:26, 8 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Talk pages are not noindexed by default, but the presence of certain banners can mark the page as noindex without you being immediately aware. This occurs with, for example, ; and thus it also occurs with . User pages are also not noindexed by default; as regards user sandboxes, see my post of 22:37, 6 May 2022 (UTC) above.
 * To check whether any given page is presently noindexed, click its "Page information" link in the left sidebar. In there, the first box (Basic information) should have an entry named "Indexing by robots", and this will show either "Allowed" or "Disallowed". -- Red rose64 &#x1f339; (talk) 20:23, 8 May 2022 (UTC)
 * @Redrose64 do you mean that the actual BLP articles are noindexed, or the talk pages for BLP articles are noindexed? I would expect BLP articles to be indexed by search engines. 73.127.147.187 (talk) 04:44, 9 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Edited to add: I do see experienced editors tell novice editors that it won't help to put autobios in user or user-talk pages because search engines won't see them.   That's why I thought all user and user-talk (and, I was guessing, article talk) pages had noindex by default.  I'll check a few, but that won't tell me the default...  I don't want to beat this to death though... Thanks. 73.127.147.187 (talk) 04:51, 9 May 2022 (UTC)
 * The  magic word only affects the page on which it is used. Therefore, when used on a talk page (whether directly, or indirectly (by means of a template) it is the talk page that is noindexed. The subject page is not affected. -- Red rose64 &#x1f339; (talk) 19:47, 9 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Here is a count of noindexed pages for each namespace. Subtracting from total page counts gives a rough count of indexed pages. Certes (talk) 10:37, 9 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Here is a count of noindexed pages for each namespace. Subtracting from total page counts gives a rough count of indexed pages. Certes (talk) 10:37, 9 May 2022 (UTC)

Mobile supports.. nothing?
I try to ensure my scripts work on the mobile domains. Not always easy. I don't actually use the mobile domains outside of these tests. As I typically load my scripts locally I never bothered to look at preferences, common.js or whatever for this. But now I wanted to test loading a script on-wiki, and.. What.. the.. fuck..? There is no link to Special:Preferences anywhere on the mobile domain! The only "settings" link there is points to Special:MobileOptions which is utterly utterly worthless. Entering Special:Preferences by hand works (that's a step up from Special:Diff which just redirects to the worthless Special:MobileDiff), but it's clearly not intended to be used as there's a horizontal scrollbar in the tabs. Not to be defeated that easily, I made a URL using withJS. Surprise: it doesn't work! But on the desktop domain with Minerva it's fine. I must be missing something. Mobile can't be this worthless.. can it? No gadgets on mobile, no Special:Diff, no Special:Preferences, I'm surely mistaken. We wouldn't direct mobile devices to such unfinished garbage by default, that wouldn't make any sense. Tell me I'm mistaken. Tell me I completely overlooked the actual mobile preferences. <span id="Alexis_Jazz:1651946765280:WikipediaFTTCLNVillage_pump_(technical)" class="FTTCmt">— Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 18:06, 7 May 2022 (UTC)
 * You are not mistaken. You have not completely overlooked the actual mobile preferences.  The mobile interface sucks.  My understanding is that the developers think the mobile interface should be optimized for readers, not editors.  Optimizing for readers leads them to eliminate things they don't think readers will need in favor of a sleeker looking, more aesthetically pleasing interface that allows people to just read the articles. ~  ONUnicorn (Talk&#124;Contribs) problem solving 18:10, 7 May 2022 (UTC)
 * If you try looking at the console, you will see a line that says . I had a look at it and have learnt that the extension provides replacements for special pages that are not mobile friendly: Special:History, Special:Contributions, Special:Watchlist, Special:Preferences, Special:MobileDiff; also, it is maintained by the Reading Web Team. <span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,red,yellow,cyan);color:transparent;background-clip:text;-webkit-background-clip:text">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh  18:18, 7 May 2022 (UTC)
 * This is why I have always been using User:Þjarkur/NeverUseMobileVersion.js. <span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,red,yellow,cyan);color:transparent;background-clip:text;-webkit-background-clip:text">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh 18:22, 7 May 2022 (UTC)
 * I warmly recommend that script, it has significantly improved my experience of using Wikipedia on my phone. —Kusma (talk) 20:06, 7 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Donald Trung, something for you? <span id="Alexis_Jazz:1652005906491:WikipediaFTTCLNVillage_pump_(technical)" class="FTTCmt">— Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 10:31, 8 May 2022 (UTC)


 * Mobile support - a mostly OK reading experience these days - if you want to do any serious editing well you've seen the results. — xaosflux  Talk 18:33, 7 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Xaosflux, ONUnicorn, being optimized for reading isn't entirely unfair, but many options for readers are also missing. Change my password? I don't see it. Maybe I was never supposed to log in anyway. Change the interface language? Nein. Change my notification settings? Forget it. Enable gadgets that aid reading like Wikipedia:Dark mode (gadget)? Mobile remains in the dark. Change search settings? Keep looking. Change banner types to display? Okay, no need for that because banners don't seem to work. (hmm.. do fundraising banners not show on mobile?) Okay, here's another question: is it possible to switch skin based on device/session so I could use different skins on my phone and my laptop on the same domain and without changing my preferences? <span id="Alexis_Jazz:1651950937664:WikipediaFTTCLNVillage_pump_(technical)" class="FTTCmt">— Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 19:15, 7 May 2022 (UTC)
 * No idea. But Monobook in "responsive mode" is almost like having two different skins, one for small screens (my phone) and one for large screens (my laptop). Small-screen monobook can't deal with high indent levels, so I sometimes switch to large-screen by rotating my phone. Can the logic of the "responsive mode" be used to choose between two completely different skins? —Kusma (talk) 20:05, 7 May 2022 (UTC)
 * No. Izno (talk) 21:03, 7 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Timeless is another option, works well both on mobile on desktop for me. Galobtter (pingó mió) 21:54, 7 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Oh, so Minerva would be completely unnecessary if Vector '10 never happened. Why does it always seem to work out this way? casualdejekyll  19:29, 8 May 2022 (UTC)
 * The web browsing technologies to support Timeless's different appearance at different resolution were not supported by all the major browsers until IE9 released in 2011 and certainly not widely supported for some time even after in the various installations of everything out in the world in the early 2010s. In fact, just weeks ago, that browser version was finally removed from the basic support column for MediaWiki.
 * You'll note also that the rise of mobile computing is actually fairly recent; even in July 2015 it accounted for only about a third of all requests, with of course the related prioritization. Now it accounts for almost two thirds.
 * Vector 2022 is moving the direction of multiple resolution support, so at some point that may be the primary skin displayed on both desktop and mobile websites. Izno (talk) 19:45, 8 May 2022 (UTC)
 * I just found out that while there's no Special:Preferences link on the mobile domain, if I enable Dark Mode it also becomes available on the mobile domain. So it seems gadgets can work after all, but not temporarily using withJS and to actually enable them you'll need to manually navigate to Special:Preferences or access it on the desktop domain. I created T307851 as a result of this topic. <span id="Alexis_Jazz:1652002041167:WikipediaFTTCLNVillage_pump_(technical)" class="FTTCmt">— Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 09:27, 8 May 2022 (UTC)
 * withJS is defined in MediaWiki:Common.js, which is not loaded in mobile, because it’s likely to contain things not compatible with mobile. Either it needs to be copied to MediaWiki:Mobile.js (which is loaded only on mobile), or uses need to be migrated to the shiny new withgadget, which is defined in the Gadgets extension, and works on mobile as well. —Tacsipacsi (talk) 14:32, 9 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Most of our site didn't work on mobile at all ten years ago, so to be honest it's remarkable we have such a good reading experience there. Much of the work in Minerva, templates and then Timeless brought us to the place we are now. I have a lot of admiration for all the staff and volunteers that have got us to where we are today.
 * It's still a work in progress but if you go to the mobile settings page while logged in and chose advanced mode you will get almost feature parity with desktop (just a few new workflows to learn). The eventual goal I would imagine is to get advanced mode as the default and a lot of the work in Desktop improvements has pushed us closer to that. WMF is investing more time in the advanced mode (and logged in experience) to push in the other direction and I am sure they would appreciate your feedback at Moderator Tools/Content moderation on mobile web about where to focus. In fact they were only just recently looking into Special:Preferences (which is not shown btw as most of the preferences are desktop only and the page itself with all its tabs barely fits on a mobile screem.
 * In terms of gadgets if one is not working that is likely because it was built ten years ago using now deprecated code (importScript for example is deprecated but used all over the place) or the gadget developer intentionally disabled it on mobile.
 * I kindly suggest you take a little time to learn more about the mobile interface before making misinformed claims that it doesn't support anything. Am happy to help enlighten you in anyway I can if you have any concrete examples. Jdlrobson (talk) 17:04, 8 May 2022 (UTC)
 * I have to wonder why you're writing here as if you're not a major part of the "they" you refer to. A lot of the mobile stuff is your own work; by number of commits you're by far the most prolific non-bot contributor to the MinervaNeue and Vector skins and the MobileFrontend extension. Do you really need to "imagine" the WMF's eventual goals in the area? Given your experience and tenure at WMF on the teams working in this area I'd think you'd be directly involved in setting them. Anomie⚔ 18:44, 8 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Jdlrobson, I stand by what I said. I kindly suggest you take a little time to learn more about the mobile interface before making misinformed claims Hey, I took my time, ten times more than you can expect from your average user! You can't enable a gadget from within the mobile interface. When using the mobile interface there's no reason to think gadgets could work - or even know about their existence - at all. I found out by accident that if enabled somehow, they do load, but enabling them to begin with is another matter. chose advanced mode you will get almost feature parity with desktop Wow, did you seriously just say that? Almost feature parity? That's a low bar, and in what universe does it come even close to that? Good job on closing T307851 because it's too hard for you and T306737 because.. well fuck if I know. I've reopened them for you. <span id="Alexis_Jazz:1652173600094:WikipediaFTTCLNVillage_pump_(technical)" class="FTTCmt">— Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 09:06, 10 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Despite having edited Wikipedia for years I was also surprised to learn just how many fundamental workflows were missing or hidden on mobile web, and like you Preferences stood out as a glaring omission that should be accessible to everyone. My team is spending at least the next few months working on improvements to the mobile web interface with a focus on tools for experienced editors. We're currently working on some low-hanging fruit relating to mobile web's overflow menu (namely, adding a user Block button and considering making the menu available without turning on Advanced Mobile Contributions) while we explore potential UX changes for making Preferences available on mobile. I've just written a project page for the preferences work at Moderator Tools/Content moderation on mobile web/Preferences where I'd love to get input from folks who are interested in this. We want to spend a little time seeing what we can do to make Preferences less confusing and more mobile-friendly before adding a link to it. Samwalton9 (WMF) (talk) 08:56, 10 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Samwalton9, I strongly suggest you forget about the mobile interface in its current form, that's a waste of time. Don't try to serve readers and editors the exact same way: readers get annoyed by useless elements and editors get annoyed by missing essential elements. See T307851. <span id="Alexis_Jazz:1652173895094:WikipediaFTTCLNVillage_pump_(technical)" class="FTTCmt">— Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 09:11, 10 May 2022 (UTC)
 * There are already differences in the mobile interface for logged-out and logged-in users, and our changes are, I think, only going to be for the interface displayed to logged-in users. If I understand your request, your issue is that Extension:MobileFrontend makes changes which you largely dislike, and therefore you'd prefer to use the MinervaNeue skin directly, without those changes. Is that right? If so could you elaborate on which elements of that extension you think need changes (or, rather, shouldn't be implemented)? Samwalton9 (WMF) (talk) 11:38, 10 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Samwalton9, I think MobileFrontend in its current form is, essentially, wishy-washy. It aims to please readers but also just had to include editing functionality. There are various good arguments for various possibilities and design choices, but delivering half an editing environment (consider WP:THEYCANTHEARYOU for example) isn't something to strive for. Special:MobileDiff for example is just useless. If you are interested in editing or, say, you at least know what a revision even is, you want the proper diff interface. If you're not interested, you don't need MobileDiff either. MobileFrontend just delivers a crippled editing experience. I'm not saying everyone has to use Vector and I would see tremendous value in a superclean reading mode as well as a fully featured Minerva. There is the argument of not wanting to scare off newcomers by revealing a million buttons when they decide to try editing. But that's still no excuse to deliver half an editing environment. I'll be thinking about how the presentation could be improved. <span id="Alexis_Jazz:1652186210935:WikipediaFTTCLNVillage_pump_(technical)" class="FTTCmt">— Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 12:36, 10 May 2022 (UTC)
 * That makes sense, and I share your view that there's a balance we haven't quite found yet between presenting an unobtrusive reading experience alongside an editing interface which has all the necessary features. I also agree with you on diffs, and in fact this is the direction I think we'll be going when we get deeper into looking at undoing edits. There's a plan (T117279), which I think we'll pick up, to remove Special:MobileDiff in favour of Special:Diff, albeit with the in-line view merged in. As you suggest, that gives us the features of the 'proper' diff interface without needing to invest additional work in new interfaces. Our current roadmap is to work on overflow menu (now), then preferences (design work underway), then diff/undo. I think there's a way for us to retain the good parts of MobileFrontend while tidying up unnecessary complications/simplifications like MobileDiff. Samwalton9 (WMF) (talk) 13:44, 10 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Samwalton9, Special:MobileDiff will be axed? So I can retire TakeAHikeMobileDiff? That would be a reason to celebrate! <span id="Alexis_Jazz:1652192209003:WikipediaFTTCLNVillage_pump_(technical)" class="FTTCmt">— Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 14:16, 10 May 2022 (UTC)

Edge and RefToolBar - Compatibility issues?
Hi all. I've tried to raise this at the RefToolbar talk page, but to no avail. I keep gettin blank parameters when using Microsoft Edge. Is there any fix/solution for this? Maybe it's the script I'm using or something else?



Thanks,-- Tærkast (Discuss) 16:14, 8 May 2022 (UTC)
 * It might be one of your scripts, I am guessing reflinks? conflicting with it. Running RefToolbar only on Win10, Edge 101 works for me. Using versions of Edge lower than 79 would also cause the issue. On an unrelated note, some of your common.js is outdated, dispenser tools are dead and User:Ohconfucius/script/Sources.js spits out dozens of errors.--Snævar (talk) 05:43, 10 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Thanks, how would I go about updating my scripts? -- Tærkast (Discuss) 17:15, 10 May 2022 (UTC)

Switch
Remember back in 2015, when we were younger and wilder? Anyway, back in 2015, Incorrect redirect template was upgraded to Lua with. Now before that the template worked with switches, and those switches had a maximum capacity of one hundred parameters. When more than a hundred params were needed, we just embedded more switches. Worked fine.

Now, when we look at a template like College, we see one switch and several hundred params, and all the entries appear to work just fine. So my question is, what is the new maximum-parameter limitation (if any) for a switch?  P.I. Ellsworth &numsp;- ed.  put'r there 13:55, 9 May 2022 (UTC)


 * @Paine Ellsworth I don't know if there is a limit, but according to Help:Switch parser function switch statements with 1,000 to 2,000 branches do work, though performance becomes a concern at those sizes. 163.1.15.238 (talk) 14:59, 9 May 2022 (UTC)
 * At present, the College template has more than 2,800 parameters/branches, and it seems to be working okay. The comparisons probably don't take nearly as long as in the past. I think that if no one else chimes in with helpful info, I'll nest a few more switches to help speed things up. Thank you, 163+ for your help on this!  P.I. Ellsworth &numsp;- ed.  put'r there 15:19, 9 May 2022 (UTC)
 * @Paine Ellsworth I think I've found the limit.
 * Reading through the documentation on mediawiki there is no hard coded "maximum number of cases" limit in parser functions itself, so the standard template limits apply. I think the two most limits relevant limits here are the Preprocessor node count and the maximum expansion depth. As with all templates you can nest switch statments up to 40 layers deep. Each condion checked also adds two to the Preprocessor node count, which has a maximum value of 1,000,000. This means that a page which has nothing else on it could theoretically have up to 500,000 cases. 163.1.15.238 (talk) 15:37, 9 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Thanks again, 163+, very helpful info! Might go ahead and see if T.College can be Luafied to ensure top speed.  P.I. Ellsworth &numsp;- ed.  put'r there 20:39, 10 May 2022 (UTC)

User blocker
Hi is there some template I can use to block individual editors or automated messages for prods and AFDs etc? I have a bot blocker but nothing I can code to block individual editors. Like on Twitter there ought to be a block user option from posting on your talk page.♦ Dr. Blofeld  09:22, 5 May 2022 (UTC)


 * There is no way for you to turn off talk page messages from someone. You can turn off pings and emails, if you would like -- Guerillero  Parlez Moi 12:20, 5 May 2022 (UTC)
 * T165124 is about a possible user control to block other users from your usertalk. While this could be invented, I don't expect it will ever be part of the English Wikipedia.  But what are these "automated" messages you are getting?  Are these really "edits" someone is maybe using scripts to help make, or is this some other process? —  xaosflux  Talk 12:35, 6 May 2022 (UTC)
 * I want something to block people with deletion prods and articles for deletion. So some sort of coding to block editors with "Proposed deletion" and "listing for deletion" notices from editing my talk page is probably possible.♦ Dr. Blofeld  12:44, 6 May 2022 (UTC)
 * @Dr. Blofeld right now the only way to do that would be with an edit filter, targeting your talk page - and that's not going to happen. Now, if perhaps you were only concerned with assisted edits that come from Twinkle (such as these) you could ask over at Wikipedia talk:Twinkle. Perhaps they could build a blacklist of "Users that do not want Twinkle assisted talk notices" in to that script. —  xaosflux  Talk 12:51, 6 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Is this one specific individual pestering you? Admins can set a WP:PBLOCK on a named individual that prevents them from editing certain pages. This is normally only done for a good reason, not "this user is annoying me". -- Red rose64 &#x1f339; (talk) 22:29, 6 May 2022 (UTC)
 * It would make a considerable difference if I didn't get notices from User:Donaldd23. I have asked him in the past not to spam my talk page with messages.♦  Dr. Blofeld  09:20, 10 May 2022 (UTC)
 * I apologize for notifying you when I submit an article for PROD or AfD. I use TWINKLE and it automatically is set to notify the creator of the article. I do not recall you asking me not to notify you, but I will do my best in the future to uncheck the box and not have it notify you. Thank you. Donald D23   talk to me  11:59, 10 May 2022 (UTC)
 * See above. But if it resumes, consider requesting a WP:PBLOCK at WP:AN - but you need to make a strong case. -- Red rose64 &#x1f339; (talk) 22:07, 10 May 2022 (UTC)

Time calculator
Is there time calculator so we can sum up total lenght of songs from album? Eurohunter (talk) 22:31, 10 May 2022 (UTC)


 * @Eurohunter can you give an example of what you would expect the inputs (at least 3) and output to be for such? — xaosflux  Talk 22:46, 10 May 2022 (UTC)
 * The documentation for Track listing mentions User:JPxG/TrackSum.js. Nardog (talk) 22:56, 10 May 2022 (UTC)
 * TrackSum.js has problem with Angel in the Night. There is no tool where I can type numbers and sum up? Eurohunter (talk) 23:14, 10 May 2022 (UTC)
 * LMGTFY ;) 1, 2 — xaosflux  Talk 23:18, 10 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Yes I can use search function myself but I expected tool on Wikipedia (internal or external) or there is option to sum up time in Google search or Windows but I don't know how to activate it. Eurohunter (talk) 23:21, 10 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Short answer on wiki, pretty sure no. In windows, you prob could write something in powershell.  Long answer on wiki, there are no tool to type things in, but a lua function could theoretically do this, but the input would need to be in the form of wikitext to a template. You should be able to do this in the browser if you write a javascript for it, I didn't see one as a ready to go userscript.  Those websites I linked will let you "type numbers" and it will "sum up" them for you though. —  xaosflux  Talk 23:28, 10 May 2022 (UTC)

Print specific line number of a long list
Hi, does anybody know a template to print specific line number of a long list when it gets transcluded? I'm using  in Portal:Linux/News to avoid a long list in Portal:Linux but it seems not a best practice. — Labdajiwa (talk) 08:30, 11 May 2022 (UTC)


 * @Labdajiwa moving the noinclude is the 'easiest' way, you could also manually update something with Help:Labeled section transclusion, but that would be more work. I suppose you could write something with Lua (follow up at Wikipedia talk:Lua for more on options there). —  xaosflux  Talk 10:12, 11 May 2022 (UTC)

Is there a way to specify an image size by its area, rather than height or width?
My use case is of a list of candidates in an election; as their party logos are of different height to width ratios, specifying their proportions by either, inevitably leads some being unduly rendered bigger than others. If only we could retrieve the height and width of the images in Commons... I could calculate new height and width for each to the same area size. Is there a trick for that? I couldn't find any documented or talked about. — Guarapiranga ☎ 05:10, 11 May 2022 (UTC)


 * This is not possible in wikitext. You could do it in Lua if you reallllllly needed. Izno (talk) 05:13, 11 May 2022 (UTC)
 * In lua it is mw.title.new(title, namespace).file.height. Width is called the same way.--Snævar (talk) 06:24, 11 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Thanks, and . — Guarapiranga ☎ 00:10, 13 May 2022 (UTC)

From today's featured article - Hover over has political / world news commentary that should be excluded
While hovering over the From today's featured article, the link has political / world news commentary regarding the pending decision before the US Supreme court regarding abortion. It is not appropriate to use this hover box functionality to promote a given philosophical viewpoint. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.217.64.83 (talk) 17:41, 12 May 2022 (UTC)


 * Today's featured article is this one: Dispute between Darnhall and Vale Royal Abbey, which has nothing to do with what you're talking about. What are you seeing here? ThadeusOfNazereth(he/they)Talk to Me! 17:43, 12 May 2022 (UTC)
 * @ThadeusOfNazereth (not the same IP as OP). The article was being repeatedly vandalised by an LTA earlier today, if you look in the page history you can see all of the deleted revisions. 192.76.8.71 (talk) 18:09, 12 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Oh, I see. I just assumed that featured articles were automatically protected from vandalism while they're linked on the front page. ThadeusOfNazereth(he/they)Talk to Me! 18:11, 12 May 2022 (UTC)
 * @ThadeusOfNazereth They're automatically move protected, but not protected against editing. There was a trial with pending changes protection a while back but I don't think there was consensus to implement it. 192.76.8.71 (talk) 18:13, 12 May 2022 (UTC)
 * There have been several proposals to apply some form of edit protection to TFA, see for instance Village pump (proposals)/Archive 183. They always fail as going against the "... that anyone can edit" part of the slogan displayed top of the main page. -- Red rose64 &#x1f339; (talk) 23:17, 12 May 2022 (UTC)


 * Seems like there is nothing to do here from a technical perspective. Popups are not content aware, and have no filtering mechanism to only show certain types of content. —  xaosflux  Talk 18:59, 12 May 2022 (UTC)
 * I think the issue might be that popups allow you to see the the content of edits that have been revdel'd. Nthep (talk) 21:11, 12 May 2022 (UTC)
 * If you are an admin that can read that already, sure - but the OP is an IP, so certainly not to them. — xaosflux  Talk 23:37, 12 May 2022 (UTC)
 * I think there have been issues with popups and caching in the past, right? Could it be that the popup was using a cached version? If so, something should probably be added to force the cache to update if revisions are deleted. --rchard2scout (talk) 11:51, 13 May 2022 (UTC)
 * For a logged out user, that seem to be "Page previews", and in combination with a vandalized page. We would need more details such as exactly what time the OP saw this to determine if there was possible technical issue. At the time of this posting the vandalism had already been removed for over 12 hours. —  xaosflux  Talk 12:53, 13 May 2022 (UTC)

Pages transcludes themselves
During an investigation into links and transclusions, I find myself seeing many main namespace articles transclude themselves. For example, shows that the page, Internationalization and localization, transcludes itself.

I was unable to reproduce that on my home wiki, zh.wikipedia; I wonder if this is caused by a software bug, or some template unknown to me. Milky  Defer  08:42, 14 May 2022 (UTC)
 * It's because of one of our main citation modules; see this archived thread. Graham 87 10:19, 14 May 2022 (UTC)

Why does technical restriction not applying to WT apply to WP?
Hi, I just realised that on wiktionary:, one may create pages titled with lowercase first letter. But that is not possible here on Wikipedia, and we have to put hatnotes explaining to readers how this is all because of a mediawiki technical restriction. So, what exactly is this "mediawiki technical restriction" that doesn't apply on Wiktionary but applies to Wikipedia anyway? Thanks! &#8212;CX Zoom[he/him] (let's talk • {C•X}) 11:31, 15 May 2022 (UTC)
 * IIRC, originally Wikitionary was also placed under the same restrictions, until they were lifted in a 2005/2006-ish patch. <span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,red,yellow,cyan);color:transparent;background-clip:text;-webkit-background-clip:text">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh 11:40, 15 May 2022 (UTC)
 * mw:Manual:$wgCapitalLinks. It's set to false for Wiktionary and a few Wikipedia languages in https://noc.wikimedia.org/conf/highlight.php?file=InitialiseSettings.php. With the current functionality, I think setting it to false would create far more problems than it solves for English. PrimeHunter (talk) 11:43, 15 May 2022 (UTC)

Template:WikidataCoord and Category:Coordinates_on_Wikidata‎
Hi, I just found that when I use WikidataCoord to create a coordinate link from Wikidata, and set display to  or , the page would be added to Category:Coordinates on Wikidata‎. I'm curious that: Thanks. --Tim Wu (talk) 15:46, 14 May 2022 (UTC)
 * 1) The page has already fetched datas from Wikidata via WikidataCoord, and no coordinates datas were manually filled. Why did the page need to be tracked?
 * 2) In line 650-657 of Module:Coordinates, only coordinates displayed in the title were tracked. Why don't track inline coordinates?
 * That is because display=title is more than just an position, it pretty much ensures that the coordinate in question is the primary one. So, with lists with coordinates for example, you have a bunch of coordinates and it would not make any sense to check all of them in wikidata.--Snævar (talk) 22:42, 15 May 2022 (UTC)

Double mapframes in infobox
Hi there! I'm having an issue with the article Auckland Domain. Recently a second mapframe started being generated in addition to the first, and I can't see any changes to the page or the Wikidata item that would be causing this. I can remove the original Infobox mapframe template from the infobox, but this doesn't tell me where the additional map is coming from (and how I'd change the zoom/size of the additional map. Can anyone help out? --Prosperosity (talk) 22:28, 15 May 2022 (UTC)


 * The additional map is the default map that appear unless no is specified. There are paramaters like mapframe-zoom to adjust it. It's all documented in the infobox park.<b style="color:#034503">MB</b> 23:13, 15 May 2022 (UTC)

Jenkins output
Hello!

Recently I've started trying to help a bit in the code section of MediaWiki. I've asked for the JenkinsBot to look after my patches and sometimes I get failure notices in its tests. I've followed the provided links for them but the output pages appear gigantic and noisy for my untrained eyes. I've asked around for help in "deciphering" them and even tried searching for tutorial videos on Jenkins but so far haven't been able to find much help. Is there anyone knowledgeable enough as to help me better understand 2-3 random specific failure notices I can provide, what's going wrong and how to fix them, so, hopefully, I can be overall better in understanding how to improve my patches in similar situations? - Klein Muçi (talk) 14:33, 15 May 2022 (UTC)
 * I'd be happy to help. One general bit of advice: the actual error is usually near the bottom of the output. Looking at the failure report for the most recent patch you uploaded, the relevant section of the error message is That is, at the given line numbers, you have blank lines containing trailing whitespace or lines that are too long, both in violation of the style conventions of that repository. * Pppery * <sub style="color:#800000">it has begun...  14:41, 15 May 2022 (UTC)
 * @Pppery, thanks a lot! How would I be able to understand lines and file names from that? And what does "W293" mean? - Klein Muçi (talk) 14:52, 15 May 2022 (UTC)
 * "W293" is an internal error code from the tool being used to do that check and isn't particularly relevant here. I'm not sure what you mean by How would I be able to understand lines and file names from that?; ./pywikibot/page/_wikibase.py is a filename and :539 is a line number (meaning line 539 of that file). * Pppery * <sub style="color:#800000">it has begun... 15:17, 15 May 2022 (UTC)
 * @Pppery, yes, thank you, that's exactly what I meant. What does the next number after 539 (1) mean? - Klein Muçi (talk) 15:41, 15 May 2022 (UTC)
 * It means the character position within the line (that is :1 means the first character after the newline, :80 means the 80th character after the newline). * Pppery * <sub style="color:#800000">it has begun... 15:43, 15 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Thank you!
 * What about in these 3 other failure outputs I randomly selected from my patches:
 * https://integration.wikimedia.org/ci/job/trigger-wikispeech-mary-tts-pipeline-test/9/console
 * https://integration.wikimedia.org/ci/job/composer-php81-docker/8/console
 * https://integration.wikimedia.org/ci/job/tox-docker/25261/console
 * - Klein Muçi (talk) 15:49, 15 May 2022 (UTC)
 * All three of those seem to be some sort of pre-existing repository misconfigration and nothing to do with your patch, which is all I can say. I note that the third link appears to be a patch to Wikimetrics, which was shut down in 2018, so it's not clear why you are making changes to its codebase and expecting them to work. * Pppery * <sub style="color:#800000">it has begun...  16:24, 15 May 2022 (UTC)
 * @Pppery, I see, thank you. The reason I was doing those changes was because of . I wanted to get myself accustomed with the general process and so I tried to fix as many typos as I could. (One of the easiest tasks I could find around.) That process helped me a lot but it was also accompanied with a lot of patches that had to be abandoned because of accidentally trying to fix upstream libraries or, as apparently was the case with what you just showed to me, old already shut down projects.
 * Thanks a lot for your help! The failure outputs make way more sense now for me. - Klein Muçi (talk) 22:39, 15 May 2022 (UTC)


 * If this isn't about the English Wikipedia, perhaps mw:Project:Support_desk would be a better forum to follow up on this sort of thing. — xaosflux  Talk 15:51, 15 May 2022 (UTC)
 * @Xaosflux, hello! A bit of a naive question but is there a "memo" or a RFC done lately I might have missed in regard to topics that should be discussed here or something similar? This is the second time in less than 2 weeks that I get "bounced back" from here and it's starting to make me really insecure about writing again in the future. I've been lurking around in this page for around 6 years and in the meantime most of my questions have been off-topic from an EnWiki-only POV. So far I have never been told anything about it up until these days. Has anything changed? Maybe it's just a coincidence or maybe my requests themselves have changed lately but I wanted to ask about this because it's starting to really affect my confidence to be active in here. Even before I asked this I had to contemplate for quite some time if I should post it or not because of the last episode.
 * Truth be told, I forgot about the MW:Support desk but I did search around a lot at MediaWiki/WikiTech for documentation related to Jenkins and after failing to find what I wanted to know, I ended up asking at the MediaWiki Discord channel. After being left without an answer for 1 week there, I tried my luck somewhere more familiar for me (here). - Klein Muçi (talk) 23:22, 15 May 2022 (UTC)
 * @Klein Muçi at that top of this page is a banner that does say The technical section of the village pump is used to discuss technical issues about Wikipedia. ... Questions about MediaWiki in general should be posted at the MediaWiki support desk. As the largest project, we often attract all sorts of random questions; I usually try to point people to the most appropriate venue. Your question didn't seem to be about this Wikipedia. — xaosflux  Talk 23:30, 15 May 2022 (UTC)
 * @Xaosflux, no I do understand that and most likely it was just a coincidence and you just wanted to help me get my help faster and keep the place tidier. It's just that for me it just so happened that I had a similar experience not so long ago (actually the time just before this) and that forced me to ask if something had happened that things were made a bit stricter lately or maybe my requests have started becoming more off topic. I am of course prone to errors and biases so maybe the fault is in me. Feeling guilty I want to explain that I really do try to find a solution before coming here, reading all the possible documentation, checking the archives and even searching for tutorial videos elsewhere on the web. It is only after those steps have failed that I do try to ask here because in 90% of the cases someone has always been able to solve my problem. But I'll try harder to utilize the more suitable forums in other cases. - Klein Muçi (talk) 23:47, 15 May 2022 (UTC)


 * My advice for finding the important parts of Jenkins logs is to search for "error", "exception" and "fail", and then look at the preceding lines. Matma Rex talk 02:01, 16 May 2022 (UTC)
 * @Matma Rex, so far I've only searched for fail. Will update the mental list accordingly. Thank you! - Klein Muçi (talk) 03:02, 16 May 2022 (UTC)

Does MW's js not accept the spread operator ?
In playing with 's scriptManager, I get a looooong list of scripts I want to play with on my left pane. I then started trying to make it more context sensitive, by separating them into different groups--history scripts, talk scripts, edit scripts, main scripts, etc (I might then use the same logic for always enabled scripts)--but using js' spread operator to update the scriptsToManage object broke the script (commenting out the update portion, unbreaks it). What gives? — Guarapiranga ☎ 03:49, 16 May 2022 (UTC)


 * Yes, T75714. Galobtter (pingó mió) 03:58, 16 May 2022 (UTC)

Regex to catch URLs
According to m:Help:URL and m:How to edit a page, all characters in URLs must be caught by. However: In short, what exactly is the regex used by MediaWiki/Parsoid? 13:22, 15 May 2022 (UTC)
 * This URL is displayed correctly albeit having a comma in the middle:
 * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diana,_Princess_of_Wales
 * This URL is displayed correctly albeit having a semicolon in the middle:
 * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diana;_Princess_of_Wales
 * This URL avoid adding the trailing comma:
 * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diana,_Princess_of_Wales, barfoo
 * This URL avoid adding the trailing colon:
 * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diana,_Princess_of_Wales: Foobar
 * Have you tried asking over at mw:Talk:Parsoid? Those meta pages seems to be out of date, for example https://ks.wikipedia.org/wiki/وِکیٖپیٖڈیا:اؠسَمبَلی_(تَکنیٖکی) works and it has all sorts of characters not in that list. —  xaosflux  Talk 01:13, 16 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Thanks! Asked there instead. <span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,red,yellow,cyan);color:transparent;background-clip:text;-webkit-background-clip:text">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh 06:18, 16 May 2022 (UTC)

How to undo page move?
How I can undone page moves? Eurohunter (talk) 08:58, 16 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Just move it back? <span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,red,yellow,cyan);color:transparent;background-clip:text;-webkit-background-clip:text">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh 09:04, 16 May 2022 (UTC)
 * In most cases there is redirect left so I can't do that. Eurohunter (talk) 09:06, 16 May 2022 (UTC)
 * If the target page has only one revision and it redirects to the page you were moving, you will be able to delete that target page. <span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,red,yellow,cyan);color:transparent;background-clip:text;-webkit-background-clip:text">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh 09:10, 16 May 2022 (UTC)
 * As stated, if the redirect has one revision you can delete it by moving the page to that title. It the redirect has more than one revison or you can't move it for some other reason then you can list it at Requested moves, assuming there was no discussion prior to the move. 163.1.15.238 (talk) 10:39, 16 May 2022 (UTC)

Possible to force my user-id to desktop version?
In the past few days my Chromebook keeps going to the mobile version - I suspect a Chromebook update.

Is there a way I can always go to the desktop version please?

Chidgk1 (talk) 14:39, 13 May 2022 (UTC)


 * In Special:Mypage/common.js, add the line
 * to automatically force any pageview of a mobile version page to reload the corresponding desktop page. —Kusma (talk) 14:49, 13 May 2022 (UTC)
 * I have that enabled, and it doesn't work when I'm editing on my mobile. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 14:50, 13 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Not working on my Chromebook either (and I don't have the twiddle on my keyboard so cannot work out how to sign this on mobile version) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.234.193.205 (talk) 14:57, 13 May 2022 (UTC)
 * When I do "open new tab" it stays on desktop like this but when I just click a link it goes to mobile like above Chidgk1 (talk) 15:01, 13 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Are you open to the mobile domain (en.m.wikipedia.org) or the normal en.wikipedia.org URL? — xaosflux  Talk 15:29, 13 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Copied twiddles - lets see if I am logged in still 88.234.193.205 (talk) 15:06, 13 May 2022 (UTC)
 * OK so also I seem to have been logged out? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.234.193.205 (talk) 15:08, 13 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Works for me, just pulled out a Chromebook and made this reply. I'm on v101.0.4951.59, 64bit.  Loading fine logged in, or in an incognito window. —  xaosflux  Talk 15:13, 13 May 2022 (UTC)
 * I've never had much luck with that script using chrome on my phone. Guess I'm just unlucky. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 15:14, 13 May 2022 (UTC)
 * @ScottishFinnishRadish That's because you're using ImportScript. ImportScript is deprecated and does not work on the mobile sites (I believe is slated for removal from the desktop site too at some point), see mw:ResourceLoader/Migration guide (users). To get scripts to work on the mobile site you need to replace your ImportScript's with mw.loader.load's. 163.1.15.238 (talk) 16:41, 13 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Ah, thanks. Much appreciated. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 17:23, 13 May 2022 (UTC)
 * I don't have any issue like this. I'm making this reply on a CHromebook rn (I have no clue what the version is or if it's Chrome OS 32 bit or 64bit) ― <b style="background:#0d1125;color:#51aeff;padding:1q;border-radius:5q;">Blaze Wolf</b>Talk<sub title="Discord Username" style="margin-left:-22q;">Blaze Wolf#6545 15:22, 13 May 2022 (UTC)
 * I don't have any issue like this. I'm making this reply on a CHromebook rn (I have no clue what the version is or if it's Chrome OS 32 bit or 64bit) ― <b style="background:#0d1125;color:#51aeff;padding:1q;border-radius:5q;">Blaze Wolf</b>Talk<sub title="Discord Username" style="margin-left:-22q;">Blaze Wolf#6545 15:22, 13 May 2022 (UTC)

Thanks same version Powerwash Chromebook solved it Chidgk1 (talk) 15:36, 13 May 2022 (UTC)

Duh I thought so but now problem is back - will try Powerwash without reloadıng any of my stuff — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.234.193.205 (talk) 15:44, 13 May 2022 (UTC)


 * It will only work when you are logged in. —Kusma (talk) 16:21, 13 May 2022 (UTC)

If anyone else has the same problem uninstalling the Wikpedia app from my Chromebook solved it for me. Chidgk1 (talk) 14:36, 16 May 2022 (UTC)

Odd entries on transclusion list
Any idea why Santa Clara station (California) claims to transclude Module:Adjacent stations/MUNI and Module:Adjacent stations/SCVTA? As far as I can tell, the page does not include MUNI or SCVTA in the adjacent station list. Animal lover &#124;666&#124; (talk) 17:19, 16 May 2022 (UTC)
 * They are transcluded by Bay Area Rail Stations. PrimeHunter (talk) 17:40, 16 May 2022 (UTC)
 * @Animal lover 666 The templates are used in some of the navboxes at the bottom of the article, e.g. Module:Adjacent stations/MUNI is used in Bay Area Rail Stations. 163.1.15.238 (talk) 17:41, 16 May 2022 (UTC)
 * It seems to have been indirectly transcluded through Bay Area Rail Stations, a navbox template. <span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,red,yellow,cyan);color:transparent;background-clip:text;-webkit-background-clip:text">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh 17:42, 16 May 2022 (UTC)

Creation of template
Hello! I'm wondering if someone could create a Wikibreak template for me (or direct me to a place I can request one). I'm wanting sort of a "scheduled wikibreak" template that will only display (or, if that's not possible say that the user will be on Wikibreak) after a specific start date and will go away once the end date is reached. It's similar to Vacation however I'm wanting to use this template specifically as a scheduled Wikibreak template since I won't be going on vacation at the start date (in fact my vacation will really only be a portion of the scheduled wikibreak). ― <b style="background:#0d1125;color:#51aeff;padding:1q;border-radius:5q;">Blaze Wolf</b>Talk<sub title="Discord Username" style="margin-left:-22q;">Blaze Wolf#6545 17:24, 16 May 2022 (UTC)
 * You can specify that condition using and, like this:  . <span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,red,yellow,cyan);color:transparent;background-clip:text;-webkit-background-clip:text">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh  17:47, 16 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Ok...? Could you show me an example? I'm not sure I understand. ― <b style="background:#0d1125;color:#51aeff;padding:1q;border-radius:5q;">Blaze Wolf</b>Talk<sub title="Discord Username" style="margin-left:-22q;">Blaze Wolf#6545 17:48, 16 May 2022 (UTC)
 * For instance,  outputs (demo) Wikibreak at this very moment. <span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,red,yellow,cyan);color:transparent;background-clip:text;-webkit-background-clip:text">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh  17:50, 16 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Ah alright. So it will display the template on the page if the it's within the time? ― <b style="background:#0d1125;color:#51aeff;padding:1q;border-radius:5q;">Blaze Wolf</b>Talk<sub title="Discord Username" style="margin-left:-22q;">Blaze Wolf#6545 17:57, 16 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Yep. <span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,red,yellow,cyan);color:transparent;background-clip:text;-webkit-background-clip:text">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh 18:00, 16 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Did I do something wrong? Cause it's displaying the template even though the start date hasn't happened yet. ― <b style="background:#0d1125;color:#51aeff;padding:1q;border-radius:5q;">Blaze Wolf</b>Talk<sub title="Discord Username" style="margin-left:-22q;">Blaze Wolf#6545 18:08, 16 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Nope, I did it wrong. Fixed that for you by using double conditions. <span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,red,yellow,cyan);color:transparent;background-clip:text;-webkit-background-clip:text">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh 18:11, 16 May 2022 (UTC)

Tech News: 2022-20
<section begin="technews-2022-W20"/> Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Changes later this week
 * Some wikis can soon use the add a link feature. This will start on Wednesday. The wikis are . This is part of the progressive deployment of this tool to more Wikipedias. The communities can configure how this feature works locally.
 * The Wikimedia Hackathon 2022 will take place online on May 20–22. It will be in English. There are also local hackathon meetups in Germany, Ghana, Greece, India, Nigeria and the United States. Technically interested Wikimedians can work on software projects and learn new skills. You can also host a session or post a project you want to work on.
 * Octicons-sync.svg The new version of MediaWiki will be on test wikis and MediaWiki.org from . It will be on non-Wikipedia wikis and some Wikipedias from . It will be on all wikis from (calendar).

Future changes
 * You can soon edit translatable pages in the visual editor. Translatable pages exist on for examples Meta and Commons.

Tech news prepared by Tech News writers and posted by bot • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe. <section end="technews-2022-W20"/>

18:56, 16 May 2022 (UTC)

Global vs local script mgt
How are people here managing their global and local scripts (other than manually)? Has anyone crafted a global script installer yet? said he's not planning on expanding his script installer to global.js. Can common.js be transcluded to global.js (and common.js somehow disabled), so that the enwiki script installers be used to install to global indirectly? (clunky, I know, but that's all I could think of.)

Cheers. — Guarapiranga ☎ 02:26, 10 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Script-installer is quite short. I think I can try tweaking it, but am unsure if both common.js and global.js can/should be supported.  already looks busy with the two, let alone a third. <span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,red,yellow,cyan);color:transparent;background-clip:text;-webkit-background-clip:text">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh  10:50, 10 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Here's a hacky way to get Enterprisey's installer to install scripts globally: in your common.js put This will make the installer install scripts into a page called "myglobal.js" in your userspace (of course, you'd have to move your existing script installations there if you want to make them global). Then, in your global.js on Metawiki, put  . I've tested this briefly and it seems to work as far as I can tell. <span style="font-weight:normal;background:linear-gradient(90deg,#e40303,#ff8c00,#ffed00,#008026,#004dff,#750787);color:transparent;background-clip:text;-webkit-background-clip:text;">Rummskartoffel  17:17, 10 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Nice workaround I must say, but it's not really comfortable: you will have to add every single  to your real global.js. Imagine you have, say, 100 scripts scattering into 5 or 6   and suddenly a bug appears out of nowhere, the only way to check and uninstall a certain one is to find out where it hides first, go to that specific wiki to disable it, test things out, then restart the process and gets extremely confused. <span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,red,yellow,cyan);color:transparent;background-clip:text;-webkit-background-clip:text">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh  17:34, 10 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Oh yeah, I definitely wouldn't advise using this if you want to "globalise" more than one common.js. I understood OP's problem statement to mean "I want to use my en.wp common.js everywhere"; for anything more complex this kind of hack isn't adequate. <span style="font-weight:normal;background:linear-gradient(90deg,#e40303,#ff8c00,#ffed00,#008026,#004dff,#750787);color:transparent;background-clip:text;-webkit-background-clip:text;">Rummskartoffel 19:55, 10 May 2022 (UTC)


 * I am not suggesting that my system is sensible for anybody else ... but I made my own system for sharing my user script setup across wikis. On the other wikis that are of interest to me, I have only common.js. The remote common.js is one line that just loads in the common.js from here. My local common.js then works out what user scripts should / should not be loaded. Putting all of my user scripts into a global.js would not be a good option for me, as not all of them will work on the other wikis — GhostInTheMachine talk to me 17:35, 10 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Your common.js is the prettiest I've ever seen in my whole Wikimedia life. Looks neat. <span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,red,yellow,cyan);color:transparent;background-clip:text;-webkit-background-clip:text">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh 17:46, 10 May 2022 (UTC)
 * ... I even have documentation! — GhostInTheMachine talk to me 17:58, 10 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Definitely something I'd recommend to users who have a mess in their s. <span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,red,yellow,cyan);color:transparent;background-clip:text;-webkit-background-clip:text">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh  18:23, 10 May 2022 (UTC)
 * The most obvious solution would be to add  to your global.js. Nardog (talk) 21:49, 10 May 2022 (UTC)
 * That's what I ended up going for; thanks, . I just found I needed to redefine importScript in common.js, though (as it's not deprecated in global, isn't it?):
 * — Guarapiranga ☎ 00:21, 11 May 2022 (UTC)
 * importScript is not defined on mobile on any site but it's effectively a no-op on mobile here because it's defined in MediaWiki:Mobile.js. Nardog (talk) 04:46, 11 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Wait, so is that also an alt way of earmarking scripts for desktop only: mw.loader.load for all and importScript for desktop only? — Guarapiranga ☎ 05:06, 11 May 2022 (UTC)
 * There are much simpler ways, e.g. . Nardog (talk) 05:30, 11 May 2022 (UTC)
 * @Guarapiranga,  should be wrapped in   &#8213; <span id="Qwerfjkl:1652719914471:WikipediaFTTCLNVillage_pump_(technical)" class="FTTCmt"> Qwerfjkl  talk  16:51, 16 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Works fine without it for me, (i.e. scripts load outside enwiki, even when stated with importScript). — Guarapiranga ☎ 23:44, 16 May 2022 (UTC)
 * @Guarapiranga, The problem would occur if the script page contained a space etc. (probably). &#8213; <span id="Qwerfjkl:1652767457102:WikipediaFTTCLNVillage_pump_(technical)" class="FTTCmt"> Qwerfjkl talk  06:04, 17 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Right! I guess scriptInstaller conveniently already did the conversion, but I included the encoding in my common.js just in case. Cheers. — Guarapiranga ☎ 07:06, 17 May 2022 (UTC)
 * These are all excellent! Thank you. — Guarapiranga ☎ 23:21, 10 May 2022 (UTC)

Let's talk about the Desktop Improvements (cross-post)
Hey, if you don't watch the miscellaneous section you may ignore a message you perhaps would prefer not to ignore, so this is like a redirect within the VP to increase the visibility.

I'm writing on behalf of a Wikimedia Foundation team working on the new desktop interface. We're building the last features now. In June, we'll complete the project. We're organizing a series of office hours: today (17 May), 7 June, 21 June, 5 July, 19 July. Today, these will happen at 12:00 UTC and 19:00 UTC on Zoom. Click here to join. Meeting ID: 86217494304. Dial by your location. SGrabarczuk (WMF) (talk) 11:47, 17 May 2022 (UTC)

Show block expiry date in block log
Hello! I'm curious if there's a user script or something that will show the expiry date of a non-indefinite block when viewing the block log of a user. I would find this very helpful as I"m not all that good at figuring out what (For example) 2 weeks from January 15 is/was and it would allow me to figure out if an ip/user resumed vandalising shortly after their previous block expired. ― <b style="background:#0d1125;color:#51aeff;padding:1q;border-radius:5q;">Blaze Wolf</b>Talk<sub title="Discord Username" style="margin-left:-22q;">Blaze Wolf#6545 17:29, 13 May 2022 (UTC)


 * While it's not in the block log, you can see this if you go to Special:Block/USERNAME (if you are an admin) or Special:BlockList/USERNAME (anyone). — xaosflux  Talk 12:06, 15 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Ah ok! I'll have to keep this in mind for future reference. ― <b style="background:#0d1125;color:#51aeff;padding:1q;border-radius:5q;">Blaze Wolf</b>Talk<sub title="Discord Username" style="margin-left:-22q;">Blaze Wolf#6545 12:44, 16 May 2022 (UTC)
 * @Blaze Wolf we could perhaps include that as a list link on the contributions page if that would be useful? See example link at testwiki:Special:Contributions/Test~testwiki. — xaosflux  Talk 10:37, 17 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Yes it definitely would! (as long as I don't mix up which link is which) ― <b style="background:#0d1125;color:#51aeff;padding:1q;border-radius:5q;">Blaze Wolf</b>Talk<sub title="Discord Username" style="margin-left:-22q;">Blaze Wolf#6545 13:12, 17 May 2022 (UTC)
 * OK, follow up at MediaWiki talk:Sp-contributions-blocked-notice. — xaosflux  Talk 13:19, 17 May 2022 (UTC)
 * I saw that. (You pinged me by mentioning me so I was notified automatically). ― <b style="background:#0d1125;color:#51aeff;padding:1q;border-radius:5q;">Blaze Wolf</b>Talk<sub title="Discord Username" style="margin-left:-22q;">Blaze Wolf#6545 13:21, 17 May 2022 (UTC)

How to search source in Internet in 2022 or ratcher how to do research?
Question may look absurdly but since few months or longer Google it doesn't even show most of the search results. Somehow some results just not pop up. Google was the most powerful search engine especially when you look at the fact that other search engines never were able to search as much as Google but now Google joined them. At this point It's impossible do multilingual research of all available information. I remember the days when with "site:" you could search in Google engine like it is one database with complete results to search. Even if you change language of whole Google search engine it will not show all possible results you can find. Despite it, it's still like Google vs all other search engines so engines like DuckDuckGo, Bing, Startpage or Ecosia are bad, even more random. Eurohunter (talk) 15:53, 17 May 2022 (UTC)

Example: Search "basshunter"+"fest i hela huset" and there is no this result at whole 26 pages. So how I can search sources? Eurohunter (talk) 15:53, 17 May 2022 (UTC)

In Web Archive you can search archived versions by url name but unfortunately it's limited 10,000 urls per prefix. Is there any workaround for this? Eurohunter (talk) 15:53, 17 May 2022 (UTC)
 * I've noticed similar happening with site: lately too; might be worth trying inurl: instead as a search prefix. I can get that page to show up in a search by doing that. Buttons to Push Buttons (talk | contribs) 17:16, 17 May 2022 (UTC)
 * It works with "site:hallandsposten.se" too but I don't know all the websites names in the Internet so I would not be able to find it. In other words I don't know the website name till I type "basshunter" "fest i hela huset". Eurohunter (talk) 19:10, 17 May 2022 (UTC)
 * The only thing I see odd about that external site is that they have asked searches to not cache/archive them; and those search results are also getting polluted by lots of mirrors of lyrics. — xaosflux  Talk 17:42, 17 May 2022 (UTC)

Table of Contents Jump
In the new skin, a header appears at the top of the screen. When one clicks on an item in the table of contents, the top line jumps under the header. Is there a way to make the contents jump to the item so as when you click it, the top line appears directly under the header? Lincoln1809 (talk) 21:26, 17 May 2022 (UTC)

scriptManager + scriptInstaller
I'm just now starting to use 's excellent scriptManager (after having it in my common.js for years!). The obvious question, for which my search here and on MusikAnimal's talk page yielded no relevant results, is: has anyone ever looked into integrating it with 's scriptInstaller? I mean, either building a dialog interface, such as scriptInstaller's, instead of doing so manually, per instructions, or--better yet!--hooking scriptManager's options onto scriptInstaller's dialog. — Guarapiranga ☎ 08:49, 15 May 2022 (UTC)
 * @Guarapiranga, I think a made User:Qwerfjkl/scripts/script manager.js to convert scripts to scriptManager. Also, I believe this was mentioned in script installer's talk page. &#8213; <span id="Qwerfjkl:1652606015650:WikipediaFTTCLNVillage_pump_(technical)" class="FTTCmt"> Qwerfjkl talk  09:13, 15 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Guarapiranga, building a better script-installer is on my to-do list, sadly I don't know when I'll finally have the time. Enterprisey's script-installer is not salvageable as far as I'm concerned Struck, sorry for the crappy choice of words, script installer does what it was made for just fine. My plans for a script installer go too far to make a fork an efficient use of time. As it's no quick fork job for me my planned script installer will take quite some time. Not even any ETA. <span id="Alexis_Jazz:1652628173243:WikipediaFTTCLNVillage_pump_(technical)" class="FTTCmt">— Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 15:22, 15 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Great to hear, ! Perhaps you could integrate yours with 's scriptManager (or simply fork it). — Guarapiranga ☎ 21:23, 15 May 2022 (UTC)
 * See also User talk:Enterprisey/script-installer. Enterprisey (talk!) 21:27, 15 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the kind words. I should mention scriptManager is one of the first scripts I ever wrote, and isn't exactly my best work… hehe! It may have various issues. Anyway, I like the idea of integrating scriptInstaller and scriptManager, but I think it should live in the latter (which is already deployed as a gadget). I unfortunately don't have the time to work on this right now, either, but as with Enterprisey am happy to help review another's work, at least for the scriptManager bits. &mdash; MusikAnimal  talk  04:19, 16 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the kind offer, ; I'd like to take you up on it. What I'm trying here is, instead of having to declare scriptsToManage in common.js, to simply list all disabled scripts, so that we can use scriptInstaller's interface to add and remove scripts from the panel. It ain't working; perhaps you can easily spot why. Cheers. — Guarapiranga ☎ 00:49, 18 May 2022 (UTC)

Template:Information styling
Page watchers may be interested in Template talk:Information. Please leave any comments there. Izno (talk) 03:51, 18 May 2022 (UTC)

Sneads, Florida
At Sneads, Florida (and hundreds of other US cities), an editor has added a racial composition table. My concern is that the note..."Note: the US Census treats Hispanic/Latino as an ethnic category. This table excludes Latinos from the racial categories and assigns them to a separate category. Hispanics/Latinos can be of any race."...looks wonky, and should be tucked away in the notes section at the bottom of the page. I'm not sure if Template:Efn or Template:Refn should be used, and the best way to use it. If someone could show me the best way to move this text and the attached references I would appreciate it. Thanks! Magnolia677 (talk) 17:56, 18 May 2022 (UTC)
 * - This is one way to do it. Does that produce the results you were hoping for? Hog Farm Talk 18:06, 18 May 2022 (UTC)
 * I think it would be better to keep this note close to what it's explaining rather than at the bottom of the page. I would also suggest that the prose line e.g. "As of the 2020 United States census, there were 6,072 people, 2,108 households, and 1,286 families residing in the city." go first, before the table. Rich Farmbrough is unfortunately no longer around, but I wonder if we shold revisit Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Cities/Archive_22 to have a unified format for all of the data we may want to include for the thousands of US cities (maybe a template or even bot can simplify the process). Reywas92Talk 18:20, 18 May 2022 (UTC)
 * I think the technical issue was addressed? If these content/content presentation issues need to be explored further please continue on a project or article talk. — xaosflux  Talk 18:31, 18 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Thanks! Magnolia677 (talk) 18:35, 18 May 2022 (UTC)

Pop-up problem
When I point my mouse at Bertrand Russell I see "Bertrand Russell ⋅ actions ⋅ popups 141.4kB, 784 wikiLinks, 10 images, 126 categories, 4 hours 49 minutes old" and a photo of the old chap, but not the text from the beginning of the lead that I would expect. I think that this will be an issue with something in the infobox, which has an awful lot going on inside it. Can anyone help? Thanks, DuncanHill (talk) 23:48, 18 May 2022 (UTC)
 * The default page previews feature at Special:Preferences works on that page. You have instead enabled Navigation popups at Special:Preferences, an option for registered users. I think too much initial template stuff (21 kB in that article) can prevent lead text from displaying in popups, maybe intentionally. You can post feedback at Wikipedia talk:Tools/Navigation popups or search the archives. PrimeHunter (talk) 17:52, 19 May 2022 (UTC)

Auto-archiving an XfD log
How can I enable automated archiving of a Twinkle-generated XfD log, which is subsection-hatted by month? At my log at User:LaundryPizza03/XfD log, I want to move older months into yearly archives, so that only the most recent 6 months are included in the main XfD log. –<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b> ( d c̄ ) 02:37, 18 May 2022 (UTC)
 * @LaundryPizza03, BOTREQ? &#8213; <span id="Qwerfjkl:1652978354402:WikipediaFTTCLNVillage_pump_(technical)" class="FTTCmt"> Qwerfjkl talk  16:39, 19 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Could you elaborate? Are you suggesting that I file a bot request to auto-archive Twinkle logs? –<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b> ( d c̄ ) 19:35, 19 May 2022 (UTC)
 * @LaundryPizza03, exactly. &#8213; <span id="Qwerfjkl:1652989096649:WikipediaFTTCLNVillage_pump_(technical)" class="FTTCmt"> Qwerfjkl talk  19:38, 19 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Thhanks,although I've been able to use the existing archive system on my own log. –<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b> ( d c̄ ) 19:44, 19 May 2022 (UTC)

TypeError: mw.uls.getBrowserLanguage is not a function
This is happening everywhere, even logged out. Nardog (talk) 23:21, 19 May 2022 (UTC)

What's the mw.js equivalent of mw.Lua's mw.title.new(page):getContent?
I just want to parse common.js itself, so it doesn't need to be too general. Do I need to go through the API? — Guarapiranga ☎ 07:55, 18 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Yes. See mw:API:Parse. <span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,red,yellow,cyan);color:transparent;background-clip:text;-webkit-background-clip:text">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh 07:58, 18 May 2022 (UTC)
 * The parse API is for, well, parsing a page or input as wikitext, so it doesn't seem what Guarapiranga is after. mw:API:Revisions or even simply $.get might be it. Nardog (talk) 18:51, 18 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Parse requires fewer parameters; besides, it suits the context better. <span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,red,yellow,cyan);color:transparent;background-clip:text;-webkit-background-clip:text">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh 01:43, 19 May 2022 (UTC)
 * What's the use in parsing a .js file as wikitext? Nardog (talk) 01:54, 19 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your help, and . TBC, what I'm trying to do is improve on 's scriptManager, having it read the disabled scripts in common.js, rather than manually declaring them in a scriptsToManage array, as he instructs, so that it complements scriptManager scriptInstaller more fully. — Guarapiranga ☎ 02:20, 19 May 2022 (UTC)
 * @Guarapiranga, scriptManager complements scriptManager? &#8213; <span id="Qwerfjkl:1652978426815:WikipediaFTTCLNVillage_pump_(technical)" class="FTTCmt"> Qwerfjkl talk  16:40, 19 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Oops! Corrected. Thanks. — Guarapiranga ☎ 23:34, 19 May 2022 (UTC)

header-template formatting
This isn't specifically about WP-en, so please rd me if there's a better place to ask.

I've come across a couple buggy things on the wiktionaries. With header templates, sometimes the hierarchy level (=== ... ===) is built in. This creates an 'edit' link on that header in the entry, like the one for this thread, but clicking on it opens a window for editing the template, not for that section of the entry. Examples are the -syn- templates on Wk-mg and Wk-tg. Is there a way to fix that without messing with all the transclusions of the template?

Also, sometimes numbered lists on a particular site will display with Hindu-Arabic digits, and sometimes with Persian, Devanagari or the like. I assume that if this changes for me, it's related to user prefs and other people will see it differently. The problem comes in with referring back to an item in the list. For instance, in the subsection on synonyms, I might want it to display:
 * [2]: (synonym for meaning 2 here)

Can I do this in a way where the '2' will display in a user's preferred numeral system? (I discovered this when I used a Persian or Devanagari digit, because that's how I saw the list display, then a week later found that the list now displayed with Hindu-Arabic digits, so that my cross-ref no longer matched.)

Thanks, — kwami (talk) 18:18, 19 May 2022 (UTC)


 * Is there a way to fix that without messing with all the transclusions of the template? Not without adding an edit link yourself, which I imagine defeats your objective.
 * Can I do this in a way where the '2' will display in a user's preferred numeral system? No. Izno (talk) 18:33, 19 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Please link pages you refer to. tg:wikt:Template:-syn- makes a section heading  and nothing else. I don't know why the wiki uses a template for this when the heading is a simple constant. The edit link for a transcluded section heading always goes to that section on the page the heading is transcluded from. That's deliberate and cannot be changed. But you can omit the edit link by producing the heading code as output from a template or parser function, e.g. with  . I suggest doing that in this example since the edit link is confusing and editors probably don't want to edit the heading itself. PrimeHunter (talk) 01:31, 20 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Thanks to you both. I'll try the fix. — kwami (talk) 01:34, 20 May 2022 (UTC)

How to get rid of the mobile version when using a desktop?
I find the current mobile inspired GUI utterly horrible and contra-productive, and wish to go back to an interface that doesn't require a lot of extra clicks. Now I can't even find the settings anymore, so how do I fix it? BP OMowe (talk) 08:24, 20 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Choose the "Vector legacy" skin. More on Reading/Web/Desktop Improvements. Nardog (talk) 08:32, 20 May 2022 (UTC)
 * @BP OMowe here is a direct link to the settings page, Special:Preferences - try selecting the "Vector legacy" skin. — xaosflux  Talk 14:06, 20 May 2022 (UTC)

Flex columns template adjustment
Page watchers may be interested in. Please leave any comments there. Izno (talk) 01:22, 21 May 2022 (UTC)

Autorship data missing from userspace articles?
I was comparing https://xtools.wmflabs.org/articleinfo/en.wikipedia.org/United_Nations_in_popular_culture and https://xtools.wmflabs.org/articleinfo/en.wikipedia.org/User:Pilaz/United_Nations_in_popular_culture and the latter doesn't display authorship data. What is the reason for it, and is there any workaround? (Also reported, I hope correctly, to https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T308903) <sub style="border:1px solid #228B22;padding:1px;">Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here 07:21, 21 May 2022 (UTC)


 * @Piotrus that external tool says that the "authorship" section is powered by "WikiWho", which says its scope is Initial and currently sole use case: Wikipedia articles. One of those pages is an article, the other is not. There is nothing we can do about it here. — xaosflux  Talk 10:37, 21 May 2022 (UTC)
 * @Xaosflux Who defined such a limited sole use case? It's obvious, in this case, that the userpace draft is a Wikipedia article too. I note that https://xtools.wmflabs.org/authorship module also reports "Authorship statistics are only available for mainspace articles." Who is the author of those modules, and who is responsible for such a restricted, limited application? <sub style="border:1px solid #228B22;padding:1px;">Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here 11:05, 21 May 2022 (UTC)
 * @Piotrus The authors of those external tools I suppose. Those are not managed by us here on the English Wikipedia, so there isn't anything for us to do about it here. You can put in a feature request at mw:Talk:XTools for the authors of that tool. — xaosflux  Talk 11:08, 21 May 2022 (UTC)

Page moves
Is anyone else having problems with page moves. Until a few days ago when you moved a page you would be left on a page saying the move was successful. There were some links about cleaning up after yourself but the important one said "What links here?" and led to a page showing double redirects to be fixed. Now I get this:

Move succeeded ← Vamsi Krishna Naidu Jump to navigation Jump to search

check The page "Vamsi Krishna Naidu" (links | edit | delete) has been moved to "Vamsee Krishna Naidu" (edit | history | links | revert | log) (move log) Please clean up after your move:

Check if the page's categories have a sort key, and update it as necessary. Check and update the magic words DEFAULTSORT and DISPLAYTITLE. If "Vamsi Krishna Naidu" does not remain a redirect to the moved page "Vamsee Krishna Naidu", make sure the incoming redirects and links point to the correct target, and update fair use rationales if there are any.

A redirect has been created. Your move should now be reflected in the Wikidata item language link.

There is no longer a link to what links here and it is also missing from the tools section on the left side of the page. So now I click on the "← Vamsi Krishna Naidu" which sends me to the new page Vamsee Krishna Naidu. I then have back into the Vamsi Krishna Naidu redirect and look on the left side for the tools. Is there any way to revert to the older system? CambridgeBayWeather, Uqaqtuq (talk), Huliva 10:29, 21 May 2022 (UTC)


 * @CambridgeBayWeather I'm seeing the links (not in the sidebar, but I don't think they were there before) - they seem to just be inline with labels. MediaWiki:Movepage-moved was recently updated after a request by  at MediaWiki_talk:Movepage-moved. There was a short discussion at Village_pump_(proposals)/Archive_189 about this first. —  xaosflux  Talk 10:46, 21 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I see that it says the bots will fix the double redirects and that's what I was looking at. The bots used to fix double redirects very quickly but seem to have slowed down or perhaps they are avoiding me. No worries. If the bots are taking care of it then I don't need to. CambridgeBayWeather, Uqaqtuq (talk), Huliva 10:53, 21 May 2022 (UTC)
 * @CambridgeBayWeather I'm with you, having bots clean up DR's is certainly useful - but you should never rely on someone else making an edit in the future. — xaosflux  Talk 10:57, 21 May 2022 (UTC)
 * I don't move many pages but I appreciate the reminder to clean up the double redirects manually. It avoids temporary breakage, some of them may have better targets than the moved page to which a bot will eventually divert them, and it's an opportunity to review the Rcat templates.  Certes (talk) 11:02, 21 May 2022 (UTC)
 * I just looked and I see that RussBot hasn't done a double redirect in a 1,000 edits. Xqbot bot's last edit was 19 May and EmausBot 20 May. CambridgeBayWeather, Uqaqtuq (talk), Huliva 11:11, 21 May 2022 (UTC)
 * If there is a suggestion to further improve MediaWiki:Movepage-moved, please mock it up on that talk page, seems like the prior discussion wanted to keep it "compact" but a small link shouldn't hurt if it is missing? — xaosflux  Talk 11:29, 21 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Suggested. Certes (talk) 11:57, 21 May 2022 (UTC)

Is there a way for a template to check whether a page is protected?
Title <span style="font-family:Fira Mono,Courier New,monospace">0x Deadbeef  (T C) 11:46, 21 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Templates can use {&#123;PROTECTIONLEVEL}}, which is explained in Help:Magic words. Certes (talk) 12:01, 21 May 2022 (UTC)

Size of music video screenshot
What is maxiumum size of music video screenshot with 16:9 aspect ratio and resolution 1920×1080? What in case of old music videos with low resolution and different aspect ratio? Also what is the best way to capture it? Eurohunter (talk) 12:35, 21 May 2022 (UTC)

Template:Class update
I'm working towards upgrading class to use Lua and a JSON definition file. Not least because this affects ~17% of all pages, I would appreciate input and/or review at Template talk:Class. Please respond there, or ping me if you respond here. {&#123; Nihiltres &#8202;&#124;talk&#8202;&#124;edits}&#125; 17:36, 21 May 2022 (UTC)

ENGVAR in newcomer copyedit task
Few weeks ago we had a discussion to add ENGVAR policies in newcomer copyedit task (see Village pump (technical)/Archive 197). It appears that it hasn't yet been taken care of. Can someone look into this? Thanks! &#8212;CX Zoom[he/him] (let's talk • {C•X}) 17:31, 21 May 2022 (UTC)


 * @CX Zoom if you open edit requests at the associated message(s) someone should get it while patrolling those. — xaosflux  Talk 22:59, 21 May 2022 (UTC)

503 error
When signed in I get a 503 error.

Since I'm not signed in I can post. However, before I did I got this:

Error Our servers are currently under maintenance or experiencing a technical problem. Please try again in a few minutes.

See the error message at the bottom of this page for more information.

If you report this error to the Wikimedia System Administrators, please include the details below.

Request from 2604:cb00:2e09:c00:8824:53f6:96cc:6b87 via cp1077 cp1077, Varnish XID 511836845 Error: 503, Backend fetch failed at Sat, 21 May 2022 19:03:04 GMT 2604:CB00:2E09:C00:8824:53F6:96CC:6B87 (talk) 19:05, 21 May 2022 (UTC)
 * It's back up, reporting here won't do much. PRAXIDICAE💕  19:06, 21 May 2022 (UTC)
 * I did it just in case it was more serious.2604:CB00:2E09:C00:8824:53F6:96CC:6B87 (talk) 19:12, 21 May 2022 (UTC)
 * There was, almost literally, a funny five minutes around 19:00 UTC. See https://grafana.wikimedia.org/d/RIA1lzDZk/application-servers-red-dashboard?orgId=1&from=1653159000000&to=1653160200000 William Avery (talk) 19:19, 21 May 2022 (UTC)
 * This was also reported at T308940, you can follow there for further updates on the cause and remediations. Legoktm (talk) 00:51, 22 May 2022 (UTC)

"Tabs floating" issue recurring
See Village pump (technical)/Archive 195. This issue has reccured, maybe WP:ITSTHURSDAY? @Jdlrobson. &#8213; <span id="Qwerfjkl:1653322209887:WikipediaFTTCLNVillage_pump_(technical)" class="FTTCmt"> Qwerfjkl talk  16:10, 23 May 2022 (UTC)

Twinkle not showing up
Ever when I go to an unedited user talk page, sometimes when I go to one that has already been edited. Doug Weller talk 16:07, 19 May 2022 (UTC)


 * You're probably sick of this advice, but first: turn off all your personal scripts (such as those in User:Doug Weller/vector.js); then reload the page; then see if the gadget works. — xaosflux  Talk 18:00, 19 May 2022 (UTC)
 * @Xaosflux Thanks, will do. I didn’t change anything though, it simply started to happen. Doug Weller  talk 18:59, 19 May 2022 (UTC)
 * @Xaosflux looks like it might be User:Timotheus Canens/spihelper.js. Once that is disabled I can see Twinkle. Let's see if that lasts. Shame though. Doug Weller  talk 16:17, 23 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Looks like that editor has been globally inactive for 6 months. If you can get someone to review and propose a bugfix (perhaps via Wikipedia talk:Sockpuppet investigations) they can make an edit request on it. (Or perhaps take it over and maintain it!) — xaosflux  Talk 16:21, 23 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Thanks, done. Doug Weller  talk 16:31, 23 May 2022 (UTC)

Weird TOC in Sparsity matroid
There's a bunch of "UNIQ-numbers" that comes from  tags. &#32; Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 16:57, 23 May 2022 (UTC)


 * This is covered in MOS:HEAD. Headers should not contain math. <b style="color:#034503">MB</b> 17:45, 23 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Though there is a relevant bug, phab:T295091. Izno (talk) 18:22, 23 May 2022 (UTC)

Upstream connect error
I've seen this error a few times in the past hour, both on en:wiki and Commons:

upstream connect error or disconnect/reset before headers. reset reason: overflow

"Anyone else or just me?" Funcrunch (talk) 21:35, 23 May 2022 (UTC)


 * It was most everyone (see https://www.wikimediastatus.net/#) it seems to be getting better now. — xaosflux  Talk 21:37, 23 May 2022 (UTC)

Tech News: 2022-21
<section begin="technews-2022-W21"/> Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Recent changes
 * Administrators using the mobile web interface can now access Special:Block directly from user pages.
 * The www.wiktionary.org portal page now uses an automated update system. Other project portals will be updated over the next few months.

Problems
 * The Growth team maintains a mentorship program for newcomers. Previously, newcomers weren't able to opt out from the program. Starting May 19, 2022, newcomers are able to fully opt out from Growth mentorship, in case they do not wish to have any mentor at all.
 * Some editors cannot access the content translation tool if they load it by clicking from the contributions menu. This problem is being worked on. It should still work properly if accessed directly via Special:ContentTranslation.

Changes later this week
 * Octicons-sync.svg The new version of MediaWiki will be on test wikis and MediaWiki.org from . It will be on non-Wikipedia wikis and some Wikipedias from . It will be on all wikis from (calendar).

Future changes
 * Octicons-tools.svg Gadget and user scripts developers are invited to give feedback on a proposed technical policy aiming to improve support from MediaWiki developers.

Tech news prepared by Tech News writers and posted by bot • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe. <section end="technews-2022-W21"/>

00:19, 24 May 2022 (UTC)

Discussion at Module talk:Message box § Removing image from the list of allowable demospaces
You are invited to join the discussion at Module talk:Message box § Removing image from the list of allowable demospaces. -- Asartea   Talk  &#124;  Contribs  19:44, 24 May 2022 (UTC)

Detecting signatures in JavaScript
I asked this at the Help Desk before, but was told to ask it here.

Basically, I noticed that after DiscussionTools is enabled, a [reply] link appears after each signature. My question is: how are these signatures detected in JavaScript? I.hate.spam.mail.here (message me | my contributions) 06:46, 23 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Mostly by catching timestamps and user (talk|contribs)? links. See Bawl's line #504+ and CD's letter #185742+ . <span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,red,yellow,cyan);color:transparent;background-clip:text;-webkit-background-clip:text">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh 09:35, 23 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Got it. Thanks! I.hate.spam.mail.here  (message me | my contributions) 01:28, 24 May 2022 (UTC)
 * For posterity, here's a regex I used to validate dates (but doesn't handle invalid dates like "29 February 2019" correctly. It should work for another ~7000 years:
 * I.hate.spam.mail.here (message me | my contributions) 23:20, 24 May 2022 (UTC)
 * The 24-hour clock may need ... Certes (talk) 23:47, 24 May 2022 (UTC)
 * So the 24-hour regex would be:
 * I.hate.spam.mail.here (message me | my contributions) 01:20, 25 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Am I reading correctly that "00 December 2009" would be considered a valid date by this regex? – Jonesey95 (talk) 01:50, 25 May 2022 (UTC)

The regex above can be simplified a bit, since all we care are months with 30 days, months with 31 days and February: Don't try to handle 29 February 2019 with regex; use JS instead. 09:41, 25 May 2022 (UTC)
 * However, just in case someone wants to use regex:
 * (For attribution: [//rgxdb.com/r/2RB9G86Y rgxdb.com])
 * <span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,red,yellow,cyan);color:transparent;background-clip:text;-webkit-background-clip:text">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh 09:48, 25 May 2022 (UTC)
 * <span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,red,yellow,cyan);color:transparent;background-clip:text;-webkit-background-clip:text">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh 09:48, 25 May 2022 (UTC)

question re viewing navboxes on mobile devices
hi all. I have a question. why aren't navboxes visible on mobile phones and devices? can anything be done to address this? Is anything being contemplated? I appreciate any help. thanks! by the way, sorry for this basic question; I'm sure this information and this topic is probably already well-known and covered, for editors who specialize in this. thanks! --Sm8900 (talk) 13:46, 25 May 2022 (UTC)
 * see T124168 for discussion on this. — xaosflux  Talk 14:01, 25 May 2022 (UTC)
 * thanks! thank you, thank you! I appreciate the link to this discussion. I coinsider this one of the main issues facing our community right now. I have already taken a brief look at the dicussion at the link above.


 * to begin with, let me just state right at the outset, I do not agree with those saying that we don't need navboxes; the opposite view is absolutely the case. navboxes are a useful and a positive helpful way to apply some internal structure to the full set of entries, related to whatever the core topic may be. the only alternative to navboxes would be existing categories, which of course are much less structured inherently.


 * I greatly support the goal of making navboxes fully visible on mobile devices. are you personally in favor of that? I'm curious to hear your views on this. thanks!! --Sm8900 (talk) 14:19, 25 May 2022 (UTC)
 * @Sm8900 feel free to leave comments on that task. Personally, I think navboxes can be useful for readers, we may be able to find a way to style them to be more accessible on mobile displays though. — xaosflux  Talk 14:25, 25 May 2022 (UTC)
 * To fix mobile styles, it is good to search for big widths and colspans, possibly some other properties too.--Snævar (talk) 15:21, 25 May 2022 (UTC)
 * I'm working on a proof of concept that fixes the display issues at Template:Navbox/div. However, the issue of "heavy weight for low value on low-bandwidth connections" remains. I am also increasingly of the opinion that navboxes serve little-to-no value in the general case, but I don't see that as a primary concern here. Izno (talk) 17:23, 25 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Is there any research on which navboxes people use? My gut feeling is that the collapsed navboxes in articles like Boris Johnson are a waste of space and bandwidth, but a single navbox with connected fiction like at The Lightning Thief can be quite helpful. I see no good reason to treat mobile differently here. —Kusma (talk) 17:44, 25 May 2022 (UTC)

Odd happenings with tables
Last time I looked at my own talk page I had nicely formatted tables at the head. As far as I cam tell I have made no changes, but the tables have gone away. Is it me, please? 🇺🇦 Fiddle Timtrent  Faddle Talk to me 🇺🇦 15:26, 25 May 2022 (UTC)


 * Your issue is MediaWiki talk:Common.css/messagebox. Izno (talk) 17:26, 25 May 2022 (UTC)
 * @Izno I take it something has changed in the css? I know "about" css, but I am by no means a practitioner.  I'll give it a hard stare. Thank you 🇺🇦  Fiddle Timtrent  Faddle Talk to me 🇺🇦 17:29, 25 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Yes, if by 'changed in' you mean 'removed entirely'. :) Please let me know if you can't figure that page out and specific confusions. Izno (talk) 17:31, 25 May 2022 (UTC)
 * @Izno Got it! Thank you.  Got to love it when things vanish. That edit was just within my skill level!  I guess it was too much to expect a bot to comb things and look for instances. I shall sit and sigh deeply! 🇺🇦  Fiddle Timtrent  Faddle Talk to me 🇺🇦 17:35, 25 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Regarding too much to expect, see MediaWiki talk:Common.css/messagebox where that's specifically discussed. :) Izno (talk) 17:37, 25 May 2022 (UTC)
 * @Izno I saw. I think that was the reason I am sitting and sighing! But all is well, now. Without your help I'd not have sorted it out. Thank you again 🇺🇦  Fiddle Timtrent  Faddle Talk to me 🇺🇦 17:46, 25 May 2022 (UTC)

Undocumented feature?
Hi.

I have been editing articles with the basic Wikitext editor for some time (laptop, Windows10). Recently something happened to change the appearance of displayed text when editing, such that any legal markup, eg
 *  or Hello world

gets colored two-tone blue. I could get used to this if it weren't for the cursor also turning blue when within such a string and hard to find, but other several other tricks cropped up at the same time, including:
 * My [Insert] key now toggles the editor between insert and overtype mode with no indication which mode the keyboard is in.
 * The span of the vertical slider no longer corresponds with the range of the article I'm editing, and hovering the mouse pointer near the bottom of the slider, its shape turns to a diagonal (NW-SE) pointer and has the power to raise or lower the slider's lower range.

The embarrassing thing is that this happened before, maybe a year ago, and a knowledgeable and helpful User drew my attention to a checkbox in (I think) Preferences, which I had somehow triggered, perhaps by an undocumented Shortcut (does Wiki editor have Shortcuts, such as [Ctrl + W] etc?). Sadly I did not take a note of their solution, and now I can't find the checkbox, and in any case if it can happen to this old duffer it can happen to others. Thanks in advance. Doug butler (talk) 23:04, 24 May 2022 (UTC)
 * I'm not familiar with the situation you describe. If others can't help, perhaps you might ask at the technical issues section of the Village Pump. <b style="color:#7F007F">TimTempleton</b> <sup style="color:#800080">(talk)  <sup style="color:#7F007F">(cont)  23:19, 24 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Syntax highlighter turned on? That is the icon next to the Advanced dropdown on the wikitext editor toolbar.
 * —Trappist the monk (talk) 23:24, 24 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Thanks TTM, that clears the problem. How it happened is a mystery but probably attributable to fat fingers :). The associated symptoms would seem to be bugs; I'll copy this conversation to the Village pump as suggested by TT. Thanks allDoug butler (talk) 00:42, 25 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Thanks TTM, that clears the problem. How it happened is a mystery but probably attributable to fat fingers :). The associated symptoms would seem to be bugs; I'll copy this conversation to the Village pump as suggested by TT. Thanks allDoug butler (talk) 00:42, 25 May 2022 (UTC)

Doug butler (talk) 00:43, 25 May 2022 (UTC)


 * Couldn't tell you what the first bullet is about, but the second bullet is a known issue. Izno (talk) 04:52, 25 May 2022 (UTC)
 * "My [Insert] key now toggles the editor between insert and overtype mode" Yes this is exactly the function of the ins key. To toggle from overtype mode to insert mode. As insert mode is the default for computers for 3 decades now, most software has removed the functionality, as it is generally confusing to people. Many people who are old style keyboard warriors however still appreciate the functionality, so i'm guessing that is how it ended up in CodeMirror (used by our syntax highlighter). If someone files a ticket, maybe we can disable that functionality. Apparently it is is the 'toggleOverwrite' options according to the documentation. —Th e DJ (talk • contribs) 16:38, 25 May 2022 (UTC)
 * As you say, that functionality has been disabled (almost?) everywhere else. Its earlier implementation, where the vulnerable character was highlighted, worked well and was sometimes useful, but as I mentioned, here there was no visible cue. Doug butler (talk) 22:18, 25 May 2022 (UTC)

CS1 errors
"his is only a preview; your changes have not yet been saved! → Go to editing area

Script warning: One or more cite web templates have maintenance messages; messages may be hidden (help).

Script warning: One or more cite AV media notes templates have maintenance messages; messages may be hidden (help)."

// Display error messages in cite templates .mw-parser-output span.cs1-hidden-error {display: inline;}

from Help:CS1 errors

Doesn't works so how I'm supposed to see these? For what it is even hidden? Such notification doesn't make sense without exact information. Eurohunter (talk) 19:16, 25 May 2022 (UTC)


 * @Eurohunter You escape comments in CSS with /* .... */, The "// Display error messages in cite templates" comment in you common.css file is being interpreted as CSS because it isn't escaped properly. 192.76.8.78 (talk) 19:27, 25 May 2022 (UTC)
 * I have fixed it but still nothing changed. Eurohunter (talk) 22:13, 25 May 2022 (UTC)
 * @Eurohunter Did you WP:Bypass your cache after making the change? This will only cause the templates to display hidden error messages, which are the unknown and missing parameter errors for the most part. 192.76.8.78 (talk) 22:20, 25 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Just to be clear - there are three types of messages that citation templates can produce. The normal red error messages that occur in the template output that anyone can see, hidden red error messages which you enable the by using the CSS you added to your common.css, and green maintenance messages, which you enable using . If you put a citation template in your sandbox and give it a nonsense parameter it should now display an error message which was previously hidden 192.76.8.78 (talk) 22:29, 25 May 2022 (UTC)
 * What article is the issue? Izno (talk) 22:19, 25 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Maintenance messages are error messages .  If you want to see maintenance messages, you must use the appropriate maintenance css in your personal css:
 * User:Eurohunter/common.css only has css for error messages.
 * —Trappist the monk (talk) 22:31, 25 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Still no difference. Eurohunter (talk) 22:50, 25 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Did you WP:Bypass your cache as suggested above? What article?  In Basshunter discography, this citation has a CS1 maint: url-status message (second bullet).
 * —Trappist the monk (talk) 23:03, 25 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Did you WP:Bypass your cache as suggested above? What article?  In Basshunter discography, this citation has a CS1 maint: url-status message (second bullet).
 * —Trappist the monk (talk) 23:03, 25 May 2022 (UTC)

Reverse tagged edits in Recent changes
In Special:RecentChanges one can filter for edits with a specific tag, e.g. "Reverted". Is it possible to apply such filters in reverse, i.e. instead of only showing edits WITH the selected tags, only showing edits WITHOUT the selected tags? -Killarnee ( C•T•U ) 21:01, 25 May 2022 (UTC)
 * @Killarnee you wish! ;) Actually many people wish for that (and it is currently #3 on the wishlist!).  See T119072 for development on this. —  xaosflux  Talk 21:06, 25 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Oh okay, thanks! -Killarnee ( C•T•U ) 21:10, 25 May 2022 (UTC)
 * You may be interested in User:Suffusion of Yellow/mark-reverted, which greens out reverted edits. <span id="Certes:1653521196816:WikipediaFTTCLNVillage_pump_(technical)" class="FTTCmt">Certes (talk) 23:26, 25 May 2022 (UTC)

Karen Valentine is 75 today
But her infobox says 74. Whose problem is this?— Vchimpanzee  •  talk  •  contributions  •  22:43, 25 May 2022 (UTC)


 * @Vchimpanzee Fixed via Special:Purge. Mediawiki Caches pages for 24 hours for performance reasons, so things like dates and times can be up to a day out. To get them to update sooner than that you have to tell the server to re-render it via the special page. 192.76.8.78 (talk) 22:48, 25 May 2022 (UTC)


 * Thanks. Of course now it's tomorrow.— Vchimpanzee  •  talk  •  contributions  •  23:06, 25 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Oh, wait, Daylight Savings.— Vchimpanzee  •  talk  •  contributions  •  23:47, 25 May 2022 (UTC)

New Pages count
At the New Pages Feed, there are some statistics in the grey footer (total unreviewed pages and pages reviewed this week). It there any way to get at those numbers so they can be displayed elsewhere? <b style="color:#034503">MB</b> 00:34, 26 May 2022 (UTC)


 * @MB you can get those via the API, for example here. — xaosflux  Talk 01:54, 26 May 2022 (UTC)
 * OK, next question. Is anyone here with the appropriate skills willing to code something, like a template (e.g. )? <b style="color:#034503">MB</b> 04:05, 26 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Templates do not have access to the API. Izno (talk) 05:11, 26 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Is there another way then? <b style="color:#034503">MB</b> 05:14, 26 May 2022 (UTC)
 * @MB if it is just for yourself, I think you could write a userscript to get it and insert it on to a page somewhere - see User_scripts/Guide for a place to start. — xaosflux  Talk 10:21, 26 May 2022 (UTC)
 * I would like something anyone can use, like Pending Changes backlog. I see that DatBot gathers the data every 15 minutes for that template. Would you recommend contacting the bot operator to expand its function for NPP? <b style="color:#034503">MB</b> 14:38, 26 May 2022 (UTC)
 * @MB if you would like a bot to do that you can ask that operator if they are interested, or ask over at WP:BOTREQ — xaosflux  Talk 14:57, 26 May 2022 (UTC)

Misrendering plus sign in equation on Chrome browser
Please see Help_desk. <b style="color:#7F007F">TimTempleton</b> <sup style="color:#800080">(talk) <sup style="color:#7F007F">(cont)  20:05, 26 May 2022 (UTC)


 * This is probably some variant of Village_pump_(technical)/Archive_186 Izno (talk) 20:16, 26 May 2022 (UTC)

What is happening
When I click on a link and then click the back button, the text on the page bounces around a little bit and then becomes normal, as though it is trying to shape itself. Has anyone else been experiencing this. Please fix this because it is annoying. Blubabluba9990 (talk) (contribs) 20:21, 19 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Yes, for some weeks/months, and we call it FOUC. Basically: you're being served content for the default skin (which is crap), and then your personal prefs kick in and make it look nice again. -- Red rose64 &#x1f339; (talk) 20:31, 19 May 2022 (UTC)
 * It happens when I am logged out too. By "default skin" I assume you mean Monobook, and I use Legacy Vector. Hopefully it goes away soon. Blubabluba9990 (talk) (contribs) 22:59, 19 May 2022 (UTC)
 * MonoBook hasn't been the default skin since May 2010. -- Red rose64 &#x1f339; (talk) 05:51, 20 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Well Vector isn't terrible (and neither is Monobook). It does seem like just raw CSS, as the page about FOUC says, or like how Wikipedia looked in the UseModWiki days. Blubabluba9990 (talk) (contribs) 22:40, 20 May 2022 (UTC)
 * YES! I came here to ask this very question, only for me it doesn't want to stop!  I am experiencing this while using desktop mode on iOS (as I have done for years without problem).  It even occurs while editing pages such as this one. It makes it difficult to type this message. Here is a tweet with video showing the issue on my contribs page.  Any insights would be greatly appreciated!! – Red Sox <i style="color:teal">Fan274</i> (talk ~contribs) 02:19, 20 May 2022 (UTC)
 * It became quite noticeable and constantly jumping for me starting today (WP:ITSTHURSDAY), often several line-spacings-worth up and down making link-clicking (or even reading) not possible. Unlike FOUC, which I've been seeing for a while and settles down within a second, this seems to be a constant bouncing back and forth. DMacks (talk) 02:45, 20 May 2022 (UTC)
 * It started for me this afternoon (Thursday afternoon) Pacific time. The bouncing is, as you said, constant on some pages, including this one, and it seems to just be getting worse.  I can barely type this message as it is.  This is absolutely intolerable.  Red Sox <i style="color:teal">Fan274</i> (talk ~contribs) 03:39, 20 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Putting on my grouchy old man hat, FOUT (as I learned the term) has been know about since <hurriedly looks up the details> 2001.  Since that time, browsers have evolved and HTML design standards have been developed to eliminate the problem.  How is  this still a thing in 2022? -- RoySmith (talk) 22:23, 20 May 2022 (UTC)
 * For me I am on an iPad right now but when I use my iPhone it is even worse, as rather than going back to normal, on my iPhone it just bounces around. I use desktop view as well since the mobile view is terrible. Blubabluba9990 (talk) (contribs) 22:45, 20 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Agreed, I had to download the app last night in order to browse and edit comfortably – I still prefer the desktop view though obviously. I really hope this gets sorted soon.  Red Sox <i style="color:teal">Fan274</i> (talk ~contribs) 01:16, 21 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Yeah. I don't have the app and I am on my phone right now and it is even worse since it jiggles around. They really should fix this soon though. Blubabluba9990 (talk) (contribs) 17:27, 21 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Just adding my plea that this be addressed. Happens to me on many different kinds of pages, en-wiki as well as Wikidata and the Commons, iOS with Safari and Firefox. (I had to type this up in notes because the page was so unstable.) TIA for technical support to sort this! Innisfree987 (talk) 21:47, 21 May 2022 (UTC)
 * One main culprit for me (not sure if only) is the "tags" on watchlist entries. Using desktop view on iPhone+Safari, there is no jumping prior to the first entry that has a tags. The tags part of that entry keeps switching between two different layouts that differ by maybe a pixel or two, which makes the rest of the page jump a little. Each later entry that has a tags keeps switching that part, adding another small amount of jump to the rest of the page in a cummulative fashion. I'm not sure if it's all tags (the tags block itself) or only certain tags. DMacks (talk) 07:28, 21 May 2022 (UTC)
 * In particular, it's the font-size of the parens around the tags part of the entry and the comma delimiter for multiple tags. And it seems to happen on commons also. DMacks (talk) 19:44, 21 May 2022 (UTC)
 * It is also a font-size constant-swapping in the "filter revisions" widget at the top of page revision-history; nearly all text there jumps (even the grayed hinting in the textboxes), but some jumps large-small-large and other small-large-small. DMacks (talk) 14:48, 22 May 2022 (UTC)
 * pinging you "at home" because I think this is probably a desktop improvements issue. Izno (talk) 01:56, 22 May 2022 (UTC)
 * If I'm reading correctly, this looks like an issue with using an Apple movie device e.g. iPhone or iPad to view Vector skin (not Vector 2022?). Is that correct? If so I'd be suprised if this relates to any desktop improvements work since changes to new Vector seldom touch the old experience. I will try to replicate this and get to the bottom of what's happening here. Jdlrobson (talk) 14:34, 22 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Okay this one took a while to debug. This is related to some changes made for global accessibility day. I'm not sure exactly what's happening, but from early research it seems related to the fact that these skins are not responsive.
 * As a short term fix, please go to settings > accessibility > motion and uncheck "Reduce motion".
 * Timeless, Monobook responsive and Minerva should also be working fine on mobile. Jdlrobson (talk) 15:36, 22 May 2022 (UTC)
 * I can also confirm this edit can be added to MediaWiki:Common.css to fix the issue in the interim. Jdlrobson (talk) 17:18, 22 May 2022 (UTC)


 * Thanks ! is not documented whereas demo is and at least avoided the red error. DMacks (talk) 18:09, 22 May 2022 (UTC)
 * ✅ Writ Keeper &#9863;&#9812; 18:27, 22 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Works for me! Thanks Jdlrobson for figuring this out. I pinged the interface-admins on commons, though that request queue is ridiculously backlogged. DMacks (talk) 18:54, 22 May 2022 (UTC)
 * It seems like the jello has finally stopped jiggling, to somewhat plagiarize the late great Chick Hearn. Thank you to everyone who worked on fixing this! :) – Red Sox <i style="color:teal">Fan274</i> (talk ~contribs) 03:56, 23 May 2022 (UTC)
 * T308979 is marked closed–resolved and Jdlrobson says the fix is in production. And User:Jon (WMF) undid the interface hack. DMacks (talk) 04:22, 27 May 2022 (UTC)

Header wikilinks
I often come across wikilinks in section headers and currently fix manually, however, after coming across nearly 20 in an article I was wondering if anyone has written regex or C# to find and do the bulk of the work to change to 'see also', which seems to fit 99% of the time? Neils51 (talk) 14:18, 24 May 2022 (UTC)
 * I don't see how moving them to 'see also' usually fits. I usually unlink the term in the header and link it in the section, usually in the first sentences. <b style="color:#034503">MB</b> 14:23, 24 May 2022 (UTC)
 * As discussed here MOS:LINKSTYLE although may be context related. Depends on the article I suppose. Neils51 (talk) 15:03, 24 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Here's a small trick using regexes, but it will only work with headers that contain one wikilink:
 * Replace
 * with
 * Basically, we capture the link's target, delink the header with Delink, then wrap that target into see also and add it add a second line.
 * Note that user scripts or AWB plugins should be preferred as JS and C# are real, Turing-complete programming languages with much more power than regex.
 * <span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,red,yellow,cyan);color:transparent;background-clip:text;-webkit-background-clip:text">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh 19:25, 24 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Addendum: You may re-replace the regex above multiple times, then clean up see alsos by replacing  with nothing. <span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,red,yellow,cyan);color:transparent;background-clip:text;-webkit-background-clip:text">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh  19:45, 24 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Much appreciated! Will look at a plugin at some point. Neils51 (talk) 21:15, 24 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Have this working just fine in AWB. Used in Advanced Setting, else in Normal Settings the edit summary gets a little messed. Made modifications to the replace function and don't use the de-link, currently running with two iterations enabled.  The 'see also' cleanup is in a subrule.  Plan to use a macro to push in an edit summary. Neils51 (talk) 11:23, 27 May 2022 (UTC)

CodeEditor in user scripts
How do I use the  module in an user script? 05:09, 27 May 2022 (UTC)
 * What do you want to do? CodeEditor is tied to WikiEditor so if you want to just use Ace, load  and throw a textbox element to  . If you want to force-load it in the edit form of a page with a content model that's not supported by default, you could do , though extremely kludgy. Nardog (talk) 10:35, 27 May 2022 (UTC)
 * I tried
 * at Special:BlankPage but the textarea element collapsed. Is this the intended behaviour? What should I do next? <span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,red,yellow,cyan);color:transparent;background-clip:text;-webkit-background-clip:text">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh 11:25, 27 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Just use CSS I guess. One thing I forgot to mention is that "Ace doesn't like replacing a textarea directly". Nardog (talk) 11:38, 27 May 2022 (UTC)
 * What CSS? I mean, Ace already has all kind of functions and all I need to do is merely loading it, not? <span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,red,yellow,cyan);color:transparent;background-clip:text;-webkit-background-clip:text">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh 11:45, 27 May 2022 (UTC)
 * I mean specifying the size of the container in CSS. But turns out specifying  and/or   in ace.edit seems easier (see ). I haven't actually done what you're trying; you're on your own now. Nardog (talk) 11:57, 27 May 2022 (UTC)

TwinkleMobile isn't working
I have tried all way to install twinkle. But failed. What should I do now?-- Abdullah ☆ (Talk) 18:38, 25 May 2022 (UTC)
 * @মো. আব্দুল্লাহ আল নোমান Twinkle isn't compatible with the mobile site and the gadget will not run if you are using the mobile skin. To get it to work you need to swap to the desktop site, you can do this you can scrolling to the bottom of the page and pressing the "desktop" link.
 * P.S. The "Talk" link in your signature goes to the talk page of the wrong account, you're missing a space between "মো." and "আব্দুল্লাহ" 192.76.8.78 (talk) 18:45, 25 May 2022 (UTC)
 * @192.76.8.78: Twinkle now can work on mobile with script: User:P.T.Đ/TwinkleMobile (except for some features). P.T.Đ (talk) 10:48, 26 May 2022 (UTC)


 * @মো. আব্দুল্লাহ আল নোমান Have you gone to the gadgets section of your preferences page, Special:Preferences and enabled twinkle? 192.76.8.78 (talk) 18:57, 25 May 2022 (UTC:)
 * @User talk:192.76.8.78 yes

. But it isn't!! Abdullah ☆ (Talk) 19:01, 25 May 2022 (UTC)
 * @মো. আব্দুল্লাহ আল নোমান You've just made an edit with twinkle updating your preferences setting ! You should now have a dropdown menu labeled "TW" at the far right next to the search bar that gives you access to the twinkle options. There's a video tutorial here that might be helpful ? If the menu isn't showing up try disabling your other gadgets, blanking or commenting out User:মো. আব্দুল্লাহ আল নোমান/common.js and User:মো. আব্দুল্লাহ আল নোমান/common.css in case something else you're loading is interfering/conflicting. 192.76.8.78 (talk) 19:08, 25 May 2022 (UTC)
 * @মো. আব্দুল্লাহ আল নোমান Also you seem to be loading twinkle global three times in meta:User:মো. আব্দুল্লাহ আল নোমান/global.js, you should remove those as they will probably conflict. In fact that global js page is a real mess, have you copied other people's JS pages onto yours? you have multiple versions of hotcat loading etc. You should remove anything there that you aren't using. 192.76.8.78 (talk) 19:22, 25 May 2022 (UTC)

User talk:192.76.8.78 I have found it helpful. Thank You!!-- Abdullah ☆ (Talk) 19:20, 25 May 2022 (UTC) @User talk:192.76.8.78 actually I have copied. Because I have no solvency. I will delete them. thanks again.-- Abdullah ☆ (Talk) 19:25, 25 May 2022 (UTC)
 * @মো. আব্দুল্লাহ আল নোমান, for what it's worth, there is a version of Twinkle that works on mobile (see WP:USL). &#8213; <span id="Qwerfjkl:1653510823029:WikipediaFTTCLNVillage_pump_(technical)" class="FTTCmt"> Qwerfjkl talk  20:33, 25 May 2022 (UTC)
 * @মো. আব্দুল্লাহ আল নোমান: You can install my script: User:P.T.Đ/TwinkleMobile. It can enable Twinkle on mobile. P.T.Đ (talk) 10:43, 26 May 2022 (UTC)
 * @P.T.Đ Thanks a lot.I have found the suggestion so helpful.-- Abdullah ☆ (Talk) 03:26, 28 May 2022 (UTC)

autoedit not working
Neither Matma Rex's disFixer.js nor WP:POP's dab feature are working for me--both use autoedit to search/replace, but when the edit window opens, the replacements are not applied. I don't think the problem is with the scripts, as they do successfully call the url, though the url doesn't go through. It doesn't seem to be a conflict with my other scripts, gadgets and preferences (though, admittedly, I have a lot of them on), as opening the url on an incognito (i.e. logged out) window doesn't apply the edits to the text either. Here is an example; the link should open a page in my sandbox--it does--and replace Matt Cox with Matt Cox--it doesn't. What might it be? Cheers. <span id="Guarapiranga:1653715411123:WikipediaFTTCLNVillage_pump_(technical)" class="FTTCmt">— Guarapiranga ☎ 05:23, 28 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Your link works for me (or at least the correction appears in preview.) Thanks for the idea!  We do a lot of that sort of thing in WP:BPAT and would love to move on from the tedious and error-prone method of typing in all the replacements manually.  I've tried adding JS via TamperMonkey, buttons to Bawl, etc. but never produced anything that works smoothly.  I had thought of writing an AutoEdit module but never got around to working out the details.   Do you have any way of generating URLs like the one you pasted?  I'm doing something similar in Tampermonkey, and it usually fires eventually after hammering reload a few times, but you probably found a more reliable way to do it.  <span id="Certes:1653734811573:WikipediaFTTCLNVillage_pump_(technical)" class="FTTCmt">Certes (talk) 10:46, 28 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Damn! Good news and bad. Not my idea, obviously; just trying to keep up with the giants, Certes. The url I pasted was generated by WP:POP, but from what I can see, it's just basically a regex replace plus some more info for the edit summary. I don't know what sort of replacements you use for WP:BPAT, but if the regex is always the same, you can even put it into a bookmarklet. <span id="Guarapiranga:1653736557843:WikipediaFTTCLNVillage_pump_(technical)" class="FTTCmt">— Guarapiranga ☎ 11:15, 28 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I hadn't discovered the popupFixDabs option but should probably set it.  The links I aren't ambiguous, just wrong (Apple for the computer company, etc.), so Popups won't suggest fixing those, but I may be able to borrow some of its internals. <span id="Certes:1653737395386:WikipediaFTTCLNVillage_pump_(technical)" class="FTTCmt">Certes (talk) 11:29, 28 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Out of curiosity, what are some examples of manual replacements you run for WP:BPAT, Certes? <span id="Guarapiranga:1653737673069:WikipediaFTTCLNVillage_pump_(technical)" class="FTTCmt">— Guarapiranga ☎ 11:34, 28 May 2022 (UTC)
 * I monitor the pages in User:Certes/Backlinks. Other project members look after other pages.  Regular fixes include Acre, Israel; Birmingham, Alabama; Telegram (software); Saint Paul, Minnesota; The Daily Telegraph (Sydney) and Reading, Berkshire.  These are all commonly abbreviated to the part before the comma or brackets, but that links to an unrelated topic such as acre. <span id="Certes:1653738073514:WikipediaFTTCLNVillage_pump_(technical)" class="FTTCmt">Certes (talk) 11:41, 28 May 2022 (UTC)
 * I see. So how would the autoedit come in handy? Do you have a bot or script that looks at whether different links on a page have the same pre-comma/bracket string? <span id="Guarapiranga:1653742487841:WikipediaFTTCLNVillage_pump_(technical)" class="FTTCmt">— Guarapiranga ☎ 12:54, 28 May 2022 (UTC)

Is it possible to use mw-collapsible in elements appended by jQuery?
Hi, as the title says, is it possible to make collapsible those elements appended by jQuery after DOM ready, using .mw-collapsible? When I tested this (just appended <div class=“mw-collapsible” /> and some required inner elements), it didn’t seem to work, and I’m wondering whether this is possible. I’d appreciate any help. —223.218.24.80 (talk) 12:36, 28 May 2022 (UTC)
 * I believe you need to use, e.g. . <span style="font-weight:normal;background:linear-gradient(90deg,#e40303,#ff8c00,#ffed00,#008026,#004dff,#750787);color:transparent;background-clip:text;-webkit-background-clip:text;">Rummskartoffel  13:06, 28 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Oops, that was a simple matter, and I didn’t notice that the doc had all the information I needed. Thanks for your help, Rummskartoffel. —223.218.24.80 (talk) 14:03, 28 May 2022 (UTC)

Li value
You know when you add numbers on a list in different sections for continuation using li value="=42065">. For some reason it has stopped working in low 40,000 and I can't get 42,065 to display at Language learning centre/Word list/Q like I could with 37,502 at Language learning centre/Word list/P.♦ Dr. Blofeld  13:10, 28 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Too many.
 * —Trappist the monk (talk) 13:17, 28 May 2022 (UTC)
 * ...and . <span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,red,yellow,cyan);color:transparent;background-clip:text;-webkit-background-clip:text">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh 14:06, 28 May 2022 (UTC)

H4 tags in page histories
I added body.action-history h4 { display:block!important; } to my user CSS page, but the date headers in page histories do not show, even though they are present in the HTML source. What can I do to show them? (Recently, there were added H4 tags to page histories, like this: <h4 class="mw-index-pager-list-header">24 May 2022 Utfor (talk) 17:41, 24 May 2022 (UTC)
 * They're already display:block, but moved around and made invisibly small. Try   —Cryptic 18:00, 24 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Thank you for your answer! Now it works as I expected. Great! Utfor (talk) 18:08, 24 May 2022 (UTC)
 * "moved around and made invisibly small". Yes, that's to make sure screenreaders can read them. —Th e DJ (talk • contribs) 16:33, 25 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Thank you for the clarification! Utfor (talk) 18:25, 28 May 2022 (UTC)

Template:Infobox motorcycle
Could someone take a look at the "alt" parameter which is thowing up a red error message in the editing pane view (Energica Ego) stating "with unknown parameter "alt". I've tried variations, involving alt_text, image alt, image-alt, that sort of thing but no change. Thanks.--Rocknrollmancer (talk) 17:34, 28 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Fixed. The editor who added the unknown parameter check did not do it in the standard way and made a couple of errors. I deleted and re-added the check using a reliable script. – Jonesey95 (talk) 18:06, 28 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Many thanks, .--Rocknrollmancer (talk) 18:38, 28 May 2022 (UTC)

How to give labels to specific objects in template?
I have table, like this: I want to call the Liberal party, so when i call, it will shows:

Liberal Party of Australia

and when i call the lower house section, like, it will shows:

how to do that? -GogoLion (talk) 19:57, 25 May 2022 (UTC)
 * I'm assuming you want to write the template Australia parties yourself. If that's correct, here are general rules:<ul><li>Give it some data (your table)</li><li>Give it parameter names (, , etc.)</li><li>Give it an algorithm to output data from input parameters</li></ul>To complete the third step, read these help pages about conditional expressions first: , H:CONEX, . Otherwise, see WP:TEMPREQ. <span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,red,yellow,cyan);color:transparent;background-clip:text;-webkit-background-clip:text">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh  23:15, 25 May 2022 (UTC)
 * "Give it an algorithm to output data from input parameters" it would be so complicated. I mean, how to make it simple without any additional parameter? Because the template will be used for many articles and i want to make it easy to remember GogoLion (talk) 03:29, 27 May 2022 (UTC)
 * As indicated,, you'd have to create a template for that (you can't simply define it by labelling cells on the table, as you would in, say, Excel). An alternative to doing it as you wrote it (piping the arguments), which requires setting a cascade of  calls, you can simply put the cells in subpages, like:
 * &rarr; Liberal Party of Australia
 * &rarr;
 * You can then either set redirects for the shorthands liberal, lo, parties, etc, such that returns what you want. — Guarapiranga ☎ 03:30, 27 May 2022 (UTC)
 * If you want it to display different things based on your input, then that's the only way I'm afraid. May I remind you, you yourself used parameters right from the beginning (i.e. ). <span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,red,yellow,cyan);color:transparent;background-clip:text;-webkit-background-clip:text">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh 03:43, 27 May 2022 (UTC)
 * And, as I said, if you don't want to write it yourself, learning how to use conditional expressions is not necessary; you can always make a request at WP:TEMPREQ. <span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,red,yellow,cyan);color:transparent;background-clip:text;-webkit-background-clip:text">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh 03:46, 27 May 2022 (UTC)
 * A 3rd alternative,, is labeled section transclusion. That can sorta work like named cells on a spreadsheet (sorta!). For that you need to add labels around each cell, like
 * Liberal Party of Australia
 * < section begin=liberal-lo > < section end=liberal-lo >
 * Then, in other pages, you refer to that via, e.g. < #lst:australian parties. Does that help? — Guarapiranga ☎ 06:13, 27 May 2022 (UTC)
 * I'll try it later. But i have another question.
 * Does the function #invoke have the function of calling object? GogoLion (talk) 09:51, 27 May 2022 (UTC)
 * @GogoLion, #invoke calls a module. &#8213; <span id="Qwerfjkl:1653776793616:WikipediaFTTCLNVillage_pump_(technical)" class="FTTCmt"> Qwerfjkl talk  22:26, 28 May 2022 (UTC)

Lille Metro: a map above the text?
In Lille Metro, I see a map (our version of OSM) which is placed above the text. I am on a desktop version (Linux Manjaro, Firefox) if this matters. I do not see anything in the code of the article, so I assume some template is broken. Could someone have a look please? If this is indeed a template this might be not the only article affected. Apologies if this has been noted before, I could not find a similar recent topic on this page. Thanks.--Ymblanter (talk) 20:48, 28 May 2022 (UTC)


 * @Ymblanter, the template for the map, Rapid transit OSM map, does not play well with long right side information boxes for some reason. It looks fine in preview but not once published! I've worked around the problem there and in Lille tramway by aligning it left and putting clear under it. I wonder if the behavior is related to the fact that it must query Wikidata for location information. There was strange graph behavior that was fine in preview but not when published for Graph:Lines. At the end of when it was resolved it said "Lets create a separate task for performance with the WDQS.", but I don't know if that was ever done. StarryGrandma (talk) 22:06, 28 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Thank you. I think the idea was indeed to draw the mp of the system by displaying the coordinates of all stations (presumably taken from Wikidata), but it does not seem to work this way, at least not for me.--Ymblanter (talk) 05:50, 29 May 2022 (UTC)

wikEdDiff not working
I have the wikEdDiff gadget enabled in my preferences, and find it to be useful. In the last few days, it has stopped working for me. (I use Firefox 100.0.2, on a desktop.) I still see the button with a green triangle, but clicking on it doesn't do anything. --Tryptofish (talk) 18:25, 28 May 2022 (UTC)
 * It works for me with same Firefox, desktop, Vector legacy. Please always give an example when you report a problem. What is your skin at Special:Preferences? If it's Vector then you also load it in User:Tryptofish/vector.js. Don't do that. Does wikEdDiff work on this link if you are logged out? PrimeHunter (talk) 00:46, 29 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Thank you very much! I also use Vector legacy. It turns out that I had the code loaded into my vector.js, from so long ago that I don't remember doing it. For some reason, that was what only recently caused the problem. I deleted it from my vector.js, and it now works just fine. Thanks again! --Tryptofish (talk) 19:24, 29 May 2022 (UTC)

Get username from logid using action API
I've been looking for a way to convert an account creation logid into its associated username, but is this possible with the mediawiki action API? I know that the reverse is possible with list=logevents as in [//en.wikipedia.org/w/api.php?action=query&list=logevents&leuser=Dragoniez&ledir=newer&lelimit=1&formatversion=2 //en.wikipedia.org/w/api.php?action=query&list=logevents&leuser=Dragoniez&ledir=newer&lelimit=1&formatversion=2], from which we get a logid (69212753) in, and this can be just used in links like Special:redirect/logid/69212753. What I'm trying to do is convert this number to a username, for when you have an account creation logid but don't know who it's for. You can of course get all account creation log events first and sort the response using a forloop or something, but this isn't very smart because there's no guarantee that the first query returns the information you need and you'd have to repeat API requests with the parameter  specified. Any help would be appreciated. Dragoniez (talk) 06:05, 29 May 2022 (UTC)
 * I don't see a way to select for a log entry by log_id anywhere in the api documentation either.Two alternatives:
 * Query for it, e.g. .  Ranges from trivial to nigh-impossible depending on your application and where you're running it from.
 * Screenscrape Special:Log, e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&logid=131966414. Always unpleasant, and certainly not recommended in bulk, but should always be possible.
 * How are you getting the log_id to start with? Any way to get a title or timestamp at the same time? —Cryptic 21:31, 29 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your comment Cryptic, I think I'll open a task on phablicator. As for how I get the logid to start with, I've developed a Twinkle-like script on jawiki to report users and it has a function of hiding abusive usernames and reporting them with their associated logids (this is easy as we can just use ). So logids to look at are in the source wikitext itself, and I've been considering automating done/not done check, just like HBC AIV helperbot5 does on WP:AIV. The thing is, it's difficult for the bot to check the block status of users reported with logids. Dragoniez (talk) 03:09, 30 May 2022 (UTC)

Infobox football club is too wide in Timeless
Please see this discussion, in which a problem with Infobox football club and the Timeless skin is described. For some reason, in that skin, a set of images intended to span the entire infobox is placed in the "label" column, which does not happen in other skins. If someone could sort out whether this is a problem with the infobox or with Timeless, that would be helpful. – Jonesey95 (talk) 01:42, 30 May 2022 (UTC)
 * It appears it's because of the  class. That's what you get when you use a UI class inside content I guess. Nardog (talk) 04:18, 30 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Your guess is better than mine, because I have been consistently unable to find good documentation about CSS classes on Wikipedia. Tips on how to fix the problem are welcome. – Jonesey95 (talk) 06:01, 30 May 2022 (UTC)

"Use a black background with green text" gadget on other Wikis
If we don't have this "black background with green text" gadget on other Wikis, how can we use it there? In the "Preferences", I found no link to reach its codes. Also, why not have it presented by default on all the Wikimedia platforms, like Navigation Pop-up? This is a very helpful gadget. Lightbluerain (Talk💬 Contribs✏️) 13:53, 28 May 2022 (UTC)
 * You mean MediaWiki:Gadget-Blackskin.css? Gadgets are created and maintained by user, who voluntarily spent their time to write things from scratch and help fixing bugs; there is yet no global gadget (though there is a proposal to implement that feature on Phabricator), not even Navpop. However, you can load any script manually for yourself by editing your global.js page on MetaWiki. <span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,red,yellow,cyan);color:transparent;background-clip:text;-webkit-background-clip:text">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh 14:02, 28 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Yes, I was asking about this. Also, thanks for telling me about the proposal on Phabricator. And, just to confirm, since it is ".css" I think I would need to edit my global ".css" page, not ".js", right? Lightbluerain (Talk💬 Contribs✏️) 14:08, 28 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Not really. You can load any Javascript or CSS pages by editing global.js. To load this specific one, add . <span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,red,yellow,cyan);color:transparent;background-clip:text;-webkit-background-clip:text">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh  15:56, 28 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Loading CSS like that will cause an FOUC. The appropriate way is to do  from global.css –  SD0001  (talk) 16:36, 28 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Thanks to both for you help. Lightbluerain (Talk💬 Contribs✏️) 06:12, 30 May 2022 (UTC)

"Sortable tables" on "Mobile browsers" (Please fix!!)
Dear team,

Please, please, triple please.

Please allow sortable tables to be used on mobile browsers.

This has been an issue for the best part of a decade.

Some tables contain over 50 rows of information. It is a critical for users to be able to sort table columns.

Please address this as a matter of urgency.

Kind regards,

Vitreology (talk) 03:37, 26 May 2022 (UTC)


 * The solution to almost all mobile problems is to add
 * mw.loader.load( "https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:%C3%9Ejarkur/NeverUseMobileVersion.js&action=raw&ctype=text/javascript" ); // User:Þjarkur/NeverUseMobileVersion.js
 * to Special:Mypage/common.js. —Kusma (talk) 19:10, 26 May 2022 (UTC)


 * I'd suggest requesting this on Moderator_Tools/Content_moderation_on_mobile_web . It's really just a task in need of a team or volunteer caring about it at this point. (Also note the gadget suggestion in the description) Jdlrobson (talk) 19:58, 27 May 2022 (UTC)
 * The Moderator tools team was created to ease the moderation of small wikis (as in small.dblist). This is kind of like when tasks get dumped on Community Tech, when they are not even in the top 20 places on the wishlist.--Snævar (talk) 20:17, 27 May 2022 (UTC)
 * From that page:
 * "The Content Moderation in Medium-Sized Wikimedia Projects research report recommended improving the ability of editors to engage with content moderation processes via the mobile web interface. The Moderator Tools team at the Wikimedia Foundation is now exploring and working on desired improvements to these experiences.'"
 * With that in mind this task seems completely in scope? I don't see why improvements for medium wikis wouldn't be helpful for larger wikis, so while the focus is on the smaller ones, I don't think that would exclude English.
 * > This is kind of like when tasks get dumped on Community Tech
 * Tasks get triaged by teams that are focusing on those sets of problems. For instance, my team which in the past has worked on mobile is currently working on Desktop improvements so is not focused on the mobile site right now. If a task is not being worked on, it's either because no team is currently focusing on that set of problems, doesn't believe it is important related to the other problems they are focusing on, or the team focusing on those problems is not aware of it. I've made them aware of this ticket so it's no longer the latter. Jdlrobson (talk) 20:43, 27 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Please we need mobile sorting. It's absurd that such basic and needed desktop functionality is absent from mobile. Reywas92Talk 13:08, 28 May 2022 (UTC)

Making desktop skins default on mobile devices that can support it
For what its worth, can I suggest that the mobile frontend be deprecated on devices that can support desktop skins? I've been following these mobile-related requests, new and archived for quite some time now. Tables, notifications, editnotices, navbox, sidebox, the list is endless. I remember the days when I used to open Wikipedia on screens no larger than the screen of a normal calculator. Today most mobile devices have screens that can easily support desktop screens. I use desktop version on Android, and never faced any issues (except VE support, which you don't have on mobile frontend anyway). Sometimes some huge tables will be hanging outside reading area but that can be solved by making the reading area horizontally scrollable where required (by integrating scrollable div tags?). This will also save developers' time and effort as they can give their undivided attention on one frontend. On mobile devices, Vector-2022 skin would be my preferred skin, because it puts sidebar under a hamburger menu, giving more reading area. The only issue is that it doesn't show TOCs yet (T306660). You can try it yourself and see that its much much better than what mobile viewers are currently greeted with. Maybe, make it possible and advertise to real mobile visitors with a site banner to use the newer version and ask for their feedback. All of your input will be appreciated. Thanks for your time. &#8212;CX Zoom[he/him] (let's talk • {C•X}) 18:44, 26 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Read phame/post/view/286/should_vector_be_responsive/. No, it is not acceptable having scrolling div tags. The site should have responsive styles, which basically means the layout changes as the screen gets smaller. TL;DR version: we are not there yet. Snævar (talk) 08:40, 27 May 2022 (UTC)
 * I was referring to the scrolling ability given by the current mobile frontend to be made available for newer mobile devices, along with the desktop features. There's no reason to not give advanced options that desktop newcomers get to the mobile newcomers too. Under current frontend, they're living on the other side of the galaxy behind a black hole, exactly why *none* of the mobile regulars use mobile version at all. If just the tables thing is not feasible, so be it, but the broader proposal shouldn't be shot down for it. &#8212;CX Zoom[he/him] (let's talk • {C•X}) 10:07, 30 May 2022 (UTC)
 * The current "mobile" version is aimed at ten+ year old devices and should not be used as default on modern phones. —Kusma (talk) 17:33, 28 May 2022 (UTC)

Saving CodeEditor preferences
CodeEditor uses TextMate as its default theme; I don't like it, and normally change the theme to Dawn. However, my preferences appear to not be remembered. Is there a way to save them, or will I have to file a task on Phabricator?

For ones who don't know about Ace preferences: Open CodeEditor, press and enjoy. 13:23, 30 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Check out User:Nardog/CodeEditorAssist. The task is T261118. Nardog (talk) 14:24, 30 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Thanks! <span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,red,yellow,cyan);color:transparent;background-clip:text;-webkit-background-clip:text">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh 15:10, 30 May 2022 (UTC)

Requested protected edits at Titleblacklist
There are two unanswered protected edit requests at MediaWiki talk:Titleblacklist, which respectively concern simplifying a regex, and removing two obsolete entries respectively concerning an unknown LTA from 2008 and, who last edited in 2012. The former has been unanswered since May 21. –<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b> ( d c̄ ) 19:03, 30 May 2022 (UTC)

Tech News: 2022-22
<section begin="technews-2022-W22"/> Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Recent changes
 * Octicons-tools.svg In the AbuseFilter extension, an   function has been introduced to check if an IP is in any of the ranges. Wikis are advised to combine multiple   expressions joined by   into a single expression for better performance. You can use the search function on Special:AbuseFilter to locate its usage.
 * The IP Info feature which helps abuse fighters access information about IPs, has been deployed to all wikis as a beta feature. This comes after weeks of beta testing on test.wikipedia.org.

Changes later this week
 * Octicons-sync.svg The new version of MediaWiki will be on test wikis and MediaWiki.org from . It will be on non-Wikipedia wikis and some Wikipedias from . It will be on all wikis from (calendar).
 * Octicons-sync.svg Some wikis will be in read-only for a few minutes because of a switch of their main database. It will be performed on at 07:00 UTC (targeted wikis).
 * The New Topic Tool will be deployed for all editors at most wikis soon. You will be able to opt out from within the tool and in Preferences.
 * Octicons-tools.svg The list=usercontribs API will support fetching contributions from an IP range soon. API users can set the   parameter to get contributions from any IP range within the limit.
 * A new parser function will be introduced: <bdi lang="zxx" dir="ltr"> . It will replace existing templates named "=". It will insert an equal sign. This can be used to escape the equal sign in the parameter values of templates.

Tech news prepared by Tech News writers and posted by bot • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe. <section end="technews-2022-W22"/>

20:27, 30 May 2022 (UTC)

Template, module or parser function to check whether a page is in a category?
Is there? — Guarapiranga ☎ 03:39, 29 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Does If in category do what you want? 192.76.8.78 (talk) 07:28, 29 May 2022 (UTC)
 * How did I miss that?! Yes! Perfect. Cheers. <span id="Guarapiranga:1653876190730:WikipediaFTTCLNVillage_pump_(technical)" class="FTTCmt">— Guarapiranga ☎ 02:03, 30 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Except... that, as noted on the template, it's pretty expensive, and quickly breaks parsing of the page. I wonder whether looking for the page in, rather than for the category link on the page, would be cheaper (with added bonuses of including subcategories and templated categorisations as well). I tried it with various functions in string, string2 and unstrip, to no avail. Any suggestions? What exactly is coming out of that module:string can't see through? Í tried stripping the div and span tags with module:string, but that didn't work either. <span id="Guarapiranga:1653884545304:WikipediaFTTCLNVillage_pump_(technical)" class="FTTCmt">— Guarapiranga ☎ 04:22, 30 May 2022 (UTC)
 * @Guarapiranga See Strip marker. If in category would probably be cheaper if done purely as a module though searching the entire wikitext for category is a lot (maybe only search the last section of the article - Module:Is infobox in lead searches the lead section and is reasonable to use). Galobtter (pingó mió) 04:37, 30 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Thanks, Galobtter. I had a look at Strip marker, but still can't see why module:string doesn't find page names in (but if you say  would probably be cheaper, and even more so with the better implementation you suggested, I probably won't bother). Cheers. <span id="Guarapiranga:1653890375803:WikipediaFTTCLNVillage_pump_(technical)" class="FTTCmt">— Guarapiranga ☎ 05:59, 30 May 2022 (UTC)
 * @Guarapiranga Basically when the Lua code looks at the the page, it just sees the strip marker rather than the categorytree output. Galobtter (pingó mió) 06:16, 30 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Even when passed as an argument? I'm not sure I understand... For intance, generates this html:


 * Are you saying Lua can't see the names there? How can I treat this as plain text? Thanks for clarifying this, Galobtter. <span id="Guarapiranga:1653896729420:WikipediaFTTCLNVillage_pump_(technical)" class="FTTCmt">— Guarapiranga ☎ 07:45, 30 May 2022 (UTC)
 * When Lua gets the content, all it sees is the strip markers. After Lua processes the content, the parser replaces the strip markers with the HTML shown above, so Lua can't see the html, and there's no way around that (I've tried). Galobtter (pingó mió) 07:56, 30 May 2022 (UTC)
 * I see. Thanks. <span id="Guarapiranga:1653899558510:WikipediaFTTCLNVillage_pump_(technical)" class="FTTCmt">— Guarapiranga ☎ 08:32, 30 May 2022 (UTC)
 * There is an extension that allows LUA to find useful properties about categories, but it's unfinished and isn't currently installed on any wmf wikis, see mw:Extension:CategoryToolbox. There isn't any way to do what you want in default LUA, hence the slightly hacky workaround of searching the wikitext. 192.76.8.78 (talk) 11:04, 30 May 2022 (UTC)
 * I see. Cheers. <span id="Guarapiranga:1653943293011:WikipediaFTTCLNVillage_pump_(technical)" class="FTTCmt">— Guarapiranga ☎ 20:41, 30 May 2022 (UTC)

Editing newsletter 2022 – #1
Read this in another language • Subscription list for the multilingual newsletter • Local subscription list



The New topic tool helps editors create new ==Sections== on discussion pages. New editors are more successful with this new tool. You can read the report. Soon, the Editing team will offer this to all editors at most WMF-hosted wikis. You can join the discussion about this tool for the English Wikipedia is at Village pump (proposals). You will be able to turn it off in the tool or at Special:Preferences.

The Editing team plans to change the appearance of talk pages. These are separate from the changes made by the Desktop improvements project and will appear in both Vector 2010 and Vector 2022. The goal is to add some information and make discussions look visibly different from encyclopedia articles. You can see some ideas at Wikipedia talk:Talk pages project.

Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk)

23:14, 30 May 2022 (UTC)

No styling for bullet points
The styling for bullet points is gone now.


 * Bullet item
 * Subitem
 * Subitem

Each of these bullets would have been the same dark blue disc, but now they're the browser-default black disc, circle and square. Nardog (talk) 12:13, 27 May 2022 (UTC)
 * I clicked on that Phabricator link but it doesn't mean anything to me. Is anyone correcting this? Drmies (talk) 23:24, 30 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Yes, a patch to fix it has been written, but not deployed to Wikipedia yet – probably because today was a holiday for most WMF employees (US Memorial Day), and the bug isn't very serious. Hopefully this will happen tomorrow. Matma Rex talk 00:08, 31 May 2022 (UTC)

"upstream connect error or disconnect/reset before headers. reset reason: overflow"
About once a day on average, I get an error when I try to edit Wikipedia: upstream connect error or disconnect/reset before headers. reset reason: overflow. Usually I am unable to access the site for up to a minute before the error resets. Any idea what's causing this? Ten Pound Hammer • (What did I screw up now?) 18:17, 30 May 2022 (UTC)


 * If I remember correctly, that's the error that is produced when all the databases are busy and the PHP part of mediawiki runs out of free database connections. The part of the software that handles connecting to the databases is shared across all projects and all database shards, so it could be something on any project, I think the devs call this problem "worker exhaustion". I seem to recall the last major outage of this type was when Russian Wikinews sent off ~150,000 3 minute long database queries due to their their use of the dynamic page list extension. Is there any pattern to the times that this happens? You'd probably be best filing a phab ticket if it's reproduceable, only the devs really have the tools to debug this. 192.76.8.78 (talk) 19:30, 30 May 2022 (UTC)


 * I also got this message several times today. But I'm also having issues with Quarry issuing error messages and a bot I utilize not running on its very regular schedule. Is there a system problem going on today? Liz <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">Read! Talk! 00:00, 31 May 2022 (UTC)
 * @Liz I assume there must be something funky going on with the databases at the moment. The xtools edit counter is also broken at the moment, trying to access any of the various subpages generates a database error. (e.g. ), and the "global contributions" tool is very flaky. 192.76.8.78 (talk) 00:25, 31 May 2022 (UTC)

FYI: enwiki_p.page table not accessible from quarry
If you use quarry to read the page table for enwiki, you will likely be seeing an error right now. I've opened T309570 to track this. First reported by on my talk. — xaosflux  Talk 00:14, 31 May 2022 (UTC)


 * Thank you, Xaosflux. There are several issues going on today, from the "overflow" messages (see above) to bots not issuing reports that they regularly do. I had this problem with both AnomieBOT III and SDZeroBot and have inquired with the bot operators. And it's not even Thursday. Liz <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">Read! Talk! 00:35, 31 May 2022 (UTC)
 * I suspect that the Linter table failing to update may be related as well. – Jonesey95 (talk) 01:07, 31 May 2022 (UTC)
 * And now BernsteinBot didn't issue its regularly produced report. That's three bots just that I know of that also seem to be affected. Liz <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">Read! Talk! 01:10, 31 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Seems like the replica database is broken. — xaosflux  Talk 01:11, 31 May 2022 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure how all this works, but it seems Xtools is broken today. (see WPPERM because it seems to be throwing off musikbot.) Is this the same issue? Happy Editing-- IAm Chaos  01:30, 31 May 2022 (UTC)

No Template:str startswith?
String-handling templates (clumsily?) instructs editors to use as the counterpart of str endswith. I thought that was odd, and (boldly?) attempted to plug the hole. It didn't go well. What did I miss? — Guarapiranga ☎ 02:11, 30 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Nevermind, (both new template and footer). — Guarapiranga ☎ 03:01, 30 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Memory says that an equivalent to this template was deleted recently. since he's been stringing things for the past year or so. Izno (talk) 00:02, 31 May 2022 (UTC)
 * I don’t recall a str startswith template. I did write Module:String2 and just never wrote the wrapper template for it. User:GKFXtalk 07:08, 31 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Glad to have dotted the i then, GKFX. Please review it to check I didn't commit any blunders. Cheers. <span id="Guarapiranga:1653995280832:WikipediaFTTCLNVillage_pump_(technical)" class="FTTCmt">— Guarapiranga ☎ 11:08, 31 May 2022 (UTC)

WT:Ships - page history lost!
What has happened to the page history at WT:SHIPS. The page history is showing only four edits since 11 May, which is not the case. Also, threads are not showing up in the archive where bots have indicated they have been archived. Mjroots (talk) 05:36, 31 May 2022 (UTC)
 * The archiving is working fine. Re the talk page history, the page does transclude WikiProject Ships/sidebar, so some of the edits that appear on the talk page would be reflected in the history of the sidebar. Graham 87 06:36, 31 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Please always give an example. I have examined the page history and archiving and have no idea what you refer to. WikiProject Ships/sidebar han't been edited since 2018 so I guess that's not it. Maybe you are thinking of another page you have edited like Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Military history. PrimeHunter (talk) 14:19, 31 May 2022 (UTC)
 * @Mjroots which is not the case - what makes you think this? Can you point to a diff? — xaosflux  Talk 15:39, 31 May 2022 (UTC)

Vector watchlist star not spinning
Is it just me or has the watchlist star in Vector stopped spinning while waiting for response? I thought it might have to do with a system setting but it's stopped on multiple browsers/systems and other CSS animations are still working. Nardog (talk) 03:57, 27 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Mine stops too. It seems that the first declaration of this CSS rule was written with commas while the correct separator is space:
 * All I know is that this rule is loaded via the [//en.wikipedia.org/w/load.php?lang=en&modules=skins.vector.styles.legacy&only=styles&skin=vector skins.vector.styles.legacy] module. <span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,red,yellow,cyan);color:transparent;background-clip:text;-webkit-background-clip:text">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh 04:20, 27 May 2022 (UTC)
 * one for you. Izno (talk) 04:30, 27 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Ah, so it's this commit that seems to be the culprit. I'm surprised this got through the unit tests. Nardog (talk) 10:24, 27 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Cf. That time I broke Wikipedia, but only for vandals by . <span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,red,yellow,cyan);color:transparent;background-clip:text;-webkit-background-clip:text">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh 10:33, 27 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Unfortunately stylelint does not catch invalid values, see https://github.com/wikimedia/stylelint-config-wikimedia/issues/121. ESanders (WMF) (talk) 16:27, 27 May 2022 (UTC)
 * re your statement the correct separator is space - see CSS Animations Level 1 [//www.w3.org/TR/css-animations-1/#animation section 4.10] which explicitly states a comma-separated list of animation definitions. Whilst that draft spec dates back to 2018, the current (15 July 2021) editor's draft still requires commas. -- Red rose64 &#x1f339; (talk) 20:47, 27 May 2022 (UTC)
 * ...and somehow that doesn't work for neither Nardog nor me. Weird. <span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,red,yellow,cyan);color:transparent;background-clip:text;-webkit-background-clip:text">NguoiDungKhongDinhDanh 04:04, 28 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Both separators are valid but mean different things. Space is to separate different parts of the animation (name, duration, delay), and comma is to separate multiple animation definitions, e.g.  ESanders (WMF) (talk) 15:45, 31 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the report. This is fixed in https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/c/mediawiki/core/+/800761. ESanders (WMF) (talk) 16:25, 27 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the report. This is fixed in https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/c/mediawiki/core/+/800761. ESanders (WMF) (talk) 16:25, 27 May 2022 (UTC)

Changing the position of the symbols ">" and "˅" in the table of contents in the new vector
Hi, consistent with other websites, the position of the signs ">" and "˅" (which means "show" and "hide" respectively) in the "table of contents" in the new vector (2022) is better to be on the right side of the topic text (now it is placed on the left side (for example, see the table of contents of Telegram_(software) in new vector)). This way, we make them consistent with the usage of these signs (instead of "show" and "hide") in most of the contemporary World Wide Web. Thanks, Hooman Mallahzadeh (talk) 13:14, 31 May 2022 (UTC)
 * WP:BUGS. -- Red rose64 &#x1f339; (talk) 13:29, 31 May 2022 (UTC)
 * May want to make that a sub-task under the massive T273473. — xaosflux  Talk 13:53, 31 May 2022 (UTC)
 * There are plenty of sites which have collapsible lists which do not have icons on the right hand side. Search the web for "collapsible panels" UI pattern for example. Both are perfectly valid design patterns and consistent with other websites. Jdlrobson (talk) 15:43, 31 May 2022 (UTC)
 * It is pretty unclear what clicking on a section name does though. Clicking on a name jumps to the section and expands the tree while clicking on the indicator merely expands the tree. I don't know of any other UI like that on the site and it's not clear from the first glance they have different functionalities. Granted, it probably doesn't take a long time to get used to it, but it's still pretty unintuitive that I have to move the cursor to the part before what I just read in order to learn more about what it contains. Nardog (talk) 15:59, 31 May 2022 (UTC)

Is there any way to detect all moves of pages with a given template?
Is there any way to detect all moves of pages which transclude Template:Adjacent stations? When such pages are moved, especially if the redirect is replaced with a disambiguation page or an other article, modification of one or more submodule of Module:Adjacent stations is required. Animal lover &#124;666&#124; (talk) 06:13, 31 May 2022 (UTC)


 * @Animal lover 666 you could try WhatLinksHere and only show the redirects, such as this. Does that help? —  xaosflux  Talk 15:54, 31 May 2022 (UTC)
 * No, that's not what they're asking. Nardog (talk) 16:22, 31 May 2022 (UTC)
 * The obvious way AFAICS is to detect redirects using the mw.title library and add a tracking category. The module looks fairly complex so I'm afraid to touch it, but I bet someone who's familiar with the module (Jc86035 or Szqecs?) can implement it. Nardog (talk) 16:22, 31 May 2022 (UTC)

Tabs floating
Reposting Village pump (technical)/Archive 197 after I got no response, see Village pump (technical)/Archive 195 for the original issue. Pinging @ who helped me last time. &#8213; <span id="Qwerfjkl:1653827210070:WikipediaFTTCLNVillage_pump_(technical)" class="FTTCmt"> Qwerfjkl talk  12:26, 29 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Message acknowledged! The team is aware of this. It relates to some work we are currently doing in T303549 to move the tabs below the title. This should be much more sustainable and less prone to UI regression going forward, but unfortunately it may remain broken for 2-3 weeks as we iron out all the moving parts here. Sorry about that! Jdlrobson (talk) 15:38, 31 May 2022 (UTC)
 * @Jdlrobson, Thanks, can you notify me when it's fixed (if convenient)? &#8213; <span id="Qwerfjkl:1654017542078:WikipediaFTTCLNVillage_pump_(technical)" class="FTTCmt"> Qwerfjkl talk  17:19, 31 May 2022 (UTC)

Main Page issue
With Vector 2022 skin, I found that Main Page is a huge mess due to the skin + 1920x1080 resolution. Please fix this issue. TOPaner (talk) 09:54, 31 May 2022 (UTC)


 * @TOPanerCan you be more specific (how is it a mess, is it just that page, etc). When I load it it looks like most other pages in vector-2022. — xaosflux  Talk 10:09, 31 May 2022 (UTC)
 * The languages link causes the text to be grabled. TOPaner (talk) 10:13, 31 May 2022 (UTC)
 * @Xaosflux: This issue occurs with high resolutions. TOPaner (talk) 10:15, 31 May 2022 (UTC)
 * I think we should remove the language links from Main Page. TOPaner (talk) 10:17, 31 May 2022 (UTC)
 * I loaded MP in 1920x1080 in v-2022, and I'm not seeing anything garbled (I mostly see my normal complain about huge whitespace waste). Perhaps you can submit a few screenshots highlighting the problem you are seeing to help explain this? —  xaosflux  Talk 13:48, 31 May 2022 (UTC)
 * I have no such problem. —Th e DJ (talk • contribs) 15:29, 31 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Relevant: link Jdlrobson (talk) 15:44, 31 May 2022 (UTC)
 * @Jdlrobson sorry, not following you; can you reproduce the problem suggested above, perhaps with a screenshot? — xaosflux  Talk 15:52, 31 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Sorry for confusion. I assume the bug report is talking about the long list on the bottom right with "use compact language list" preference unchecked. Whether it's a huge mess is subjective but that list pushes the whole page down. If that is the issue being raised here, mplementing the proposal to turn it into button at the top in the RFC above would address this. Jdlrobson (talk) 16:31, 31 May 2022 (UTC)
 * @Jdlrobson I'm far from a fan of vector-2022, but even at a huge resolution (such as that the main page content is only taking up about 25% of my horizontal screen) I'm not seeing any sort of "garbled text" anywhere on the page. The language selector shows 47 options, and it does push the screen down a bit, but only if you (a) scroll all the way down to be able to see it at all and (b) pull down on the selector. said this "huge mess" is because of high resolution "garbled" text, and I can't replicate that - can you?  If so, would you please drop a screen cap in a phab task about how this control is causing the rest of an article to become unusable? —  xaosflux  Talk 23:11, 31 May 2022 (UTC)

Article "1949 in the United States" error
At 1949 in the United States, these bullet lines are displayed at References instead of above in article.


 * Cold War (1945–1991)
 * Schepps Palm Field (1949–1959) baseball venue opens in *Corpus Christi, Texas.
 * Second Red Scare (1947–1957)
 * Marshall Plan (1948–1951) ISBN 0-934878-94-3

I did attempt a change to "Governors and Lieutenant Governors" wikitable as I suspect something in there is not correct. Asking for expert help here as I have no idea how to fix. Thank you. JoeNMLC (talk) 01:18, 1 June 2022 (UTC)


 * @JoeNMLC, the four items in the list had been put after the reference but before the, making them part of the reference. I have fixed it. StarryGrandma (talk) 01:38, 1 June 2022 (UTC)
 * An IP made bad edits in 2015. I have fixed the remaining issues. PrimeHunter (talk) 01:48, 1 June 2022 (UTC)
 * ✅ - Thank you, StarryGrandma and PrimeHunter. JoeNMLC (talk) 14:00, 1 June 2022 (UTC)

Using old OS
Will I still be able to use WP on Windows 8.1 when Extended Support extends on January 10? Does WP work on any OS? Will Twinkle and MonoBoook still work? Thanks...Smarkflea (talk) 12:49, 27 May 2022 (UTC)

PAGE ]]) 16:43, 1 June 2022 (UTC)
 * @Smarkflea How well wikipedia works depends upon which internet browser you use to access it, for a list of supported browsers see Browser support. Windows 8.1 going out of support won't in itself cause wikipedia to stop working and most browsers will probably continue to release Windows 8.1 updates for some time to come. The only semi-mainstream browser where there are plans to drop support in the future is internet explorer, if you are using it you should migrate to something else. Using an outdated operating system does of course come with some security risks so updating to something with active support is still recommended. 192.76.8.78 (talk) 13:15, 27 May 2022 (UTC)
 * The Windows Store in Windows 8.1 is broken since 2019. TOPaner (talk) 10:23, 31 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Good thing Windows lets you install and update programs without using the Windows Store. --Ahecht ([[User talk:Ahecht|<span style="color:#FFF;background:#04A;display:inline-block;padding:1px;vertical-align:-.3em;font:bold 50%/1 sans-serif;text-align:center">TALK

Apparently hiding in Wikipedia?
How does a User set his or her Userpage to look as if it doesn't exist? I have to admit, I'm asking purely out of curiosity. The question comes from an incident from many years ago, but I just noticed more about it, and it's been puzzling me. About a dozen years ago, I was contributing as an IP User, and signing my real name (a very uncommon one--possibly unique in the world) to my contributions. I started a discussion on an article talk page. Several replies into it, I spotted one particular comment; I saw the Username and recognized the contributor as someone I've known for many years, since before there ever was a Wikipedia. At that time, this individual adamantly wanted nothing to do with me, to the point where my trying to reach out might have prompted legal action. I assume that the person commented without having noticed my name at the beginning of the thread. Now, that person's Username is a red link. Click it, and you get to a page that says that User Page doesn't exist--and invites that User to create it. The Talk Page is like that, too. But I just found that if I click "User Contributions," I get a list. Well, there's only one item on that list: the User's comment in the thread I started. I know you can't actually delete an account (at least after you've contributed anything). But I'm guessing this User did something to hide from me, and I wonder what that might have been. Uporządnicki (talk) 17:58, 31 May 2022 (UTC)
 * You can't delete an account, but userpages can be deleted; per WP:U1, anyone can have their own userpage deleted for basically no reason at all. However, if the contribs list is empty, there is a chance that the user was WP:VANISHed, which allows user to have their accounts migrated to a nonce name and disassociated from the prior name on the account.  Possibly that is what happened.  -- Jayron <b style="color:#090">32</b> 18:11, 31 May 2022 (UTC)
 * @Jayron32, British editors would likely object to the use of a nonce name. —Kusma (talk) 19:03, 31 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Yep. Jimmy Savile, that's a nonce name. So is Gary Glitter. And Ian Brady. -- Red rose64 &#x1f339; (talk) 19:22, 31 May 2022 (UTC)
 * It's optional for registered users to create a user page. If they don't then the link will be red and say "Wikipedia does not have a user page with this exact title." The user account does exist. The user talk link will also be red if nobody ever created the talk page by posting something there. If the user only has one visible edit then chances are that the user page and user talk page were never created. There is nothing unusual about that. A user cannot hide their page from you if the page is visible to others. It's conceivable that the user created a new account with another name as a way to hide but they may also just have stopped editing. PrimeHunter (talk) 22:58, 31 May 2022 (UTC)
 * If a user page is a redlink, what happens when you click it will vary according to whether the user is registered or not. If they are not registered, you will see MediaWiki:Userpage-userdoesnotexist inside a yellow box, with the $1 replaced by the actual page name; if they are currently registered, you won't. -- Red rose64 &#x1f339; (talk) 18:42, 1 June 2022 (UTC)

Topic list
I have added a list of topics to the header of this page. I wonder if this will help the discussion run more smoothly. Any comments would be welcome, thank you. Kanashimi (talk) 23:39, 2 June 2022 (UTC)


 * I've reverted. That's simply unnecessary here. Also, this discussion should be on WT:VPT if anywhere. Izno (talk) 23:56, 2 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Thank you. I will discuss on the discussion page. Kanashimi (talk) 00:06, 3 June 2022 (UTC)

Help fixing a template bug
I think I've got a pretty good bug report filed. Just need someone good at templates to take a look. The talk page looks low traffic, so cross-posting here. Template talk:Db-notice/Archive 1 – Novem Linguae (talk) 05:37, 2 June 2022 (UTC)

"New International Encyclopedia" template has some missing title error; how to address?
Thanks for any suggestions on fixing Template:New International Encyclopedia as I noticed both its usage on a page (Henri-Gustave Delvigne) and its actual template page show a red text error. MatthewVanitas (talk) 02:29, 3 June 2022 (UTC)
 * The message on the template page does not indicate an actual error; the template does not provide an article title by default, so one does not appear on the template page. The message on the article means that the citation is missing the title of the NIE article that was used to create the WP article. That is why the article is in . To fix the error in the article, provide a value for either title or wstitle inside the template where it appears in the article, like this. – Jonesey95 (talk) 03:00, 3 June 2022 (UTC)

Is there a way to make the search box recognise the Template pseudo-namespace (T)?
H:N says the search box can be used to navigate directly to a page by entering a page name prefixed by its pseudo-namespace. WP:NS lists CAT:, H:, MOS:, P: and T:. I understand from WP:SC that the Template pseudo-namespace does not enjoy the same level of community support as the first four there, and that it is disputed whether it should be deemed to be pseudo-namespaces, hence why the search box doesn't recognise it the same way it recognises WP: and WT:. Is there a (perhaps scripted) way to make it so? — Guarapiranga ☎ 10:16, 2 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Yes. See lines 44 to 75 from my common.js. – SD0001  (talk) 11:05, 2 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Awesome! Thank you, SD0001. Forked it! 😁 <span id="Guarapiranga:1654220507347:WikipediaFTTCLNVillage_pump_(technical)" class="FTTCmt">— Guarapiranga ☎ 01:41, 3 June 2022 (UTC)
 * WP and WT are not pseudo-namespaces. Izno (talk) 14:53, 2 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Right, WP and WT are namespace aliases which is a MediaWiki feature to automatically treat them like an existing namespace. Pseudo-namespaces are just a practice for some redirects at the English Wikipedia. It was yourself who added the wrong "page name prefixed by its pseudo-namespace" right before you quoted it like it was existing help text you were trying to use. Don't do that, it causes confusion, especially when you are wrong. I have reverted it. PrimeHunter (talk) 16:59, 2 June 2022 (UTC)
 * My apologies, PrimeHunter. My edit was in good faith; I was trying to clarify what it meant, as pseudo-pagename is not defined anywhere (least of all at WP:NS the term is linked to at WP:N). All I could find, other than that at WP:N, were mentions of it here at the WP:VP seven, eight years ago, and on a user's sandbox draft of H:PAGE. Neither current H:PAGE nor WP:NS define it. <span id="Guarapiranga:1654216142554:WikipediaFTTCLNVillage_pump_(technical)" class="FTTCmt">— Guarapiranga ☎ 00:29, 3 June 2022 (UTC)
 * FYI Namespace and Shortcut — GhostInTheMachine talk to me 12:03, 3 June 2022 (UTC)

How to archive page of Spotify release?
How to archive page of Spotify release without message "error-dialog.generic.header" (the archived page does not load)? Eurohunter (talk) 22:44, 2 June 2022 (UTC)


 * @Eurohunter I don't understand what you want to do here? We don't have a page called Spotify release - can you be more specific?  What do you want to accomplish, what are the steps you are doing that don't work? —  xaosflux  Talk 13:13, 3 June 2022 (UTC)
 * After you archive this page in Wayback Machine and try to open it message "error-dialog.generic.header" pop up. Eurohunter (talk) 13:23, 3 June 2022 (UTC)
 * @Eurohunter thanks for the update, it seems like you are having a problem with Archive.org, not with Wikipedia. For support on Archive.org you can start here. —  xaosflux  Talk 13:27, 3 June 2022 (UTC)

Help needed with iterating over a lua table
Sorry to bother you with an issue from an other wiki, but I can't find any better place to ask.

I have a lua table at https://hayday.fandom.com/wiki/Module:Infoicon/data which contains data for its parent module. Note that the nature of this table is that more data is likely to be added over time, and for human readability I want the keys in alphabetical order, so using numeric indexes is no solution here. How can I, in an other function which has access to this table, iterate over all the items in this table in order? Pory Here (talk) 07:29, 2 June 2022 (UTC) PAGE ]]) 13:44, 3 June 2022 (UTC) PAGE ]]) 13:40, 3 June 2022 (UTC)
 * See test2wiki:Wikipedia:Guide_to_Scribbling.--Snævar (talk) 08:19, 2 June 2022 (UTC)
 * @Snævar I'm not sure how that applies, since (a) they're not accessing frame.args, and (b) since that page was written 10 years ago, Scribunto has added both pairs and ipairs to the frame.args metatables and they can be used normally. --Ahecht ([[User talk:Ahecht|<span style="color:#FFF;background:#04A;display:inline-block;padding:1px;vertical-align:-.3em;font:bold 50%/1 sans-serif;text-align:center">TALK
 * ...he says as he makes an another loop, similar to the one on the page. Your assumption of what my point was is wrong.--Snævar (talk) 15:22, 3 June 2022 (UTC)
 * You can't iterate keys in a wanted order using pairs. You can extract the keys, sort them, then access them in alpha order. Ask at WT:Lua if wanting more. Johnuniq (talk) 23:27, 2 June 2022 (UTC)
 * @Pory Here The way I've dealt with this in the past is:
 * --Ahecht ([[User talk:Ahecht|<span style="color:#FFF;background:#04A;display:inline-block;padding:1px;vertical-align:-.3em;font:bold 50%/1 sans-serif;text-align:center">TALK
 * --Ahecht ([[User talk:Ahecht|<span style="color:#FFF;background:#04A;display:inline-block;padding:1px;vertical-align:-.3em;font:bold 50%/1 sans-serif;text-align:center">TALK

Sidebar collapser js/css
I recently visited zh: Wikipedia and found a nice sidebar collapser button on Vector legacy at the border between sidebar and reading area. Since I use mobile (thin screen), hate mobile version, and vector-2022 doesn't have TOC yet, I'd appreciate if someone can point me to the part of their js/css that does this. Thanks! &#8212;CX Zoom[he/him] (let's talk • {C•X}) 14:54, 3 June 2022 (UTC)


 * @CX Zoom w:zh:MediaWiki:Gadget-CollapsibleSidebar.js. — xaosflux  Talk 15:12, 3 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Thanks a lot. &#8212;CX Zoom[he/him] (let's talk • {C•X}) 15:43, 3 June 2022 (UTC)

Visual editor messing up unblock requests?
Relevant discussion with some links at the bottom of 331dot's talk page. As far as I can tell, when a blocked user follows the instructions to copy/paste exactly as they see it, and they're using the reply function + Visual Editor, a bunch of nowiki markup appears which renders the appeal non-functional. See this edit for an example. Blaze Wolf and I helped out the party gnome as best we could, but that wasn't the first time I'd seen the problem pop up. 331dot entered the picture when they came across a case at User talk:Global Shares Cork. No idea what to do about it, figured there'd be good laps to dump the problem in here.

I'd try the whole "submit a bug report to Phabricator" thing (if it is a bug?), but, well... --> 199.208.172.35 (talk) 16:55, 2 June 2022 (UTC)


 * Doesn't look like that is a software bug, but a "directions" bug - the directions can be improved. — xaosflux  Talk 17:36, 2 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Fixing the instructions is your best bet, since the developers do not appear to be interested in fixing Visual Editor's many copy-paste bugs. There are multiple long-standing VE bugs related to copying and pasting., for example, is about to celebrate its fifth birthday. Maybe when this bug enrolls in kindergarten this fall, it will learn to copy and paste correctly. – Jonesey95 (talk) 18:14, 2 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Ah. I assume that won't break in the Visual Editor (too badly, it's still very confusing when I preview it - source editing is so much better). Should I go around to every template I can find with the fancy directions above and suggest the change on talk? 199.208.172.35 (talk) 18:36, 2 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Erm, maybe I won't do that, there seem to be a lot of templates with that string, or variations of it. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 20:27, 2 June 2022 (UTC)
 * (I'm one of the developers of visual editor and the reply tool) The editor attempts to detect when you're trying to parse wikitext into the visual editor, but this doesn't work correctly in this case, because the wikitext snippet has formatting in it (the link and the italics), so the editor tries to faithfully preserve the code snippet with its formatting, rather than assuming you want to use the template. If you remove the formatting – i.e., render it as  in the instructions – it will work better when pasted into the visual mode. Matma Rex talk 19:15, 2 June 2022 (UTC)
 * I wanted to start some "editprotected" requests about this, but it looks like @199.208.172.35 is already doing this at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Templates#Changing a bunch of protected templates. Thank you! Matma Rex talk 23:10, 3 June 2022 (UTC)

Signature in unblock request templates
While we're here, I have a question about the "unblock" template – why does it put the user's signature in the middle of the message instead of at the end, or in other words, why  and not  ? I've also seen this cause some confusion when used with the reply tool (which adds a signature at the end). Matma Rex talk 19:23, 2 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Preview this code on your user talk page and you'll see why:

Unblock template with sig outside the braces
~
 * The signature goes elegantly after the unblock reason for the unblock request in the recommended version, not awkwardly on a new line after the colored box, as in the second version. I haven't played with the reply tool, but it should be smart enough to detect that there is a signature present. – Jonesey95 (talk) 20:58, 2 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Because it makes a box, and you sign your statement in the box. See output example here —  xaosflux  Talk 21:02, 2 June 2022 (UTC)
 * I don't think that's awkward, but alright, that part makes sense. But… why does it sign in the middle of the box? I've never seen any other template used in discussions that is used like that. (I found now that Unblock on hold also does that, but another related template Unblocked sensibly puts it at the end.) Matma Rex talk 22:40, 2 June 2022 (UTC)
 * @Matma Rex those normally get converted to unblock granted or unblock declined which further reformats the presentation. — xaosflux  Talk 13:15, 3 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Thanks, but this doesn't really explain it to me. Matma Rex talk 23:15, 3 June 2022 (UTC)
 * @Matma Rex Because we like it that way :) — xaosflux  Talk 23:20, 3 June 2022 (UTC)

Filter "Random article" hits
I am not that interested in sports, for example, and one in every 3 or 4 articles I land on seems to be a sports-related article. Most of them seem to have the relevant sports categories listed. Is there any way I can filter out pages pertaining to certain categories? Mooonswimmer 23:55, 3 June 2022 (UTC)
 * that feature does not exist, but it is requested at T69812. You can use Special:RandomInCategory to find only random articles in categories that you select though. —  xaosflux  Talk 00:13, 4 June 2022 (UTC)

Edit to User:Qst
Could someone explain how this edit was possible? The bot doesn't have admin rights so shouldn't be able to edit a fully-protected page. * Pppery * <sub style="color:#800000">it has begun... 14:12, 23 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Glitch in the matrix? The only thing I can think of is that is a redirect to the userpage, and maybe there's an inverse-cascade protection that somehow allows a back-door "user talk" edit that's actually on the user page? Primefac (talk) 14:17, 23 May 2022 (UTC)
 * I tested tagging something they created and it just aborts at notification since it's a redirect. see here. PRAXIDICAE💕  14:22, 23 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Courtesy ping to as botop. Primefac (talk) 14:28, 23 May 2022 (UTC)
 * @Primefac "Glitch in the matrix" sums it up pretty well! – SD0001  (talk) 15:17, 23 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Seems to have been a backend bug, T309028 opened. — xaosflux  Talk 14:46, 23 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Not a bot problem, being worked on. — xaosflux  Talk 15:03, 23 May 2022 (UTC)

Undeleted
The above discussion was previously removed and revision-deleted while the security bug was being worked out. It has now been resolved and made public, see T309028, so I have now undeleted it. Best, KevinL ( aka L235 · t · c) 01:19, 4 June 2022 (UTC)

Regex every talk page HTML version
Is there a way to regex search the HTML version of every talk page? ie. list every talk page that contains  in the HTML version of the page. -- Green  C  19:56, 2 June 2022 (UTC)
 * No, not as far as i'm aware. —Th e DJ (talk • contribs) 20:20, 2 June 2022 (UTC)
 * If not, a search for <ref might offer an alternative. I got 110,742 pages, which might roughly match what you were seeking.  Certes (talk) 21:51, 2 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Cirrus queries have max 10,000 results. Searching a dump would probably work, one a month.  --  Green  C  02:32, 3 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Knowing what you're actually looking for may help provide an answer to your question. Izno (talk) 22:44, 2 June 2022 (UTC)
 * See also XY problem. Izno (talk) 22:45, 2 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Related discussion: WP:Bot requests <span id="Certes:1654210230098:WikipediaFTTCLNVillage_pump_(technical)" class="FTTCmt">Certes (talk) 22:50, 2 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Then as a start we're looking at this search. Izno (talk) 20:30, 3 June 2022 (UTC)
 * It would be great, if Cirrus search didn't max out at 10,000 results. Hard limit. It's like Google search, it might say 100k hits, which is true, but try to page through and it soon runs out. Too much memory and resources to actually retrieve all the results when 99% of the time most people don't look - except on Wiki for bot work, which case there are dumps, API or SQL.-- Green  C  06:09, 4 June 2022 (UTC)

Maps annoyance.
Articles that use the in-article map widget have an annoying limitation. Consider the map on this excellent page for instance. Want more detail? Try clicking on it... now that is absolutely not what I would expect or want.

It seems the widget itself should expand, not simply display the image. This is somewhat more annoying given the caption at the bottom of the resulting page is "Map showing the location of Empire Mine State Historic Park", which it doesn't.

Maury Markowitz (talk) 12:58, 3 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Click on the coordinates to get a page that links to many zoomable maps. Some infoboxes allow the use of mapframe maps, which some editors prefer. – Jonesey95 (talk) 13:14, 3 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Well the coords is a different thing, multiple clicks and you're way off the page before you get what you want. But do you have an example of this other solution? Maury Markowitz (talk) 17:59, 3 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Infobox museum has this feature. See this list of articles, including Gallerie dell'Accademia. – Jonesey95 (talk) 20:40, 3 June 2022 (UTC)
 * This is a MUCH better solution. Can it be used anywhere, or does it require template changes? Maury Markowitz (talk) 23:37, 3 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Maps such as the one that you describe are composites - there are two images: the base map itself (in this case File:USA California location map.svg) and a superimposed icon (in this case File:Red pog.svg). See Template:Location map. As for mapframes, see for example HM Prison Brixton - my problems with these include: (a) they can be slow to display - I have seen a blank rectangle for minutes on end; (b) the location balloon is fuzzy; (c) the contrast isn't brilliant. -- Red rose64 &#x1f339; (talk) 20:41, 3 June 2022 (UTC)

Regarding these maps for Wikipedia: the Template:Location map system that generates a composite of a base map image and a superimposed icon is older, at least since 2006, as that appears to have been the technical limitations at the time. The Maplink system is relatively newer, since at least 2016, and it allows you to embed an interactive map from OpenStreetMap (via the Kartographer MediaWiki extension). So far there has been no consensus to do a mass conversion of every article from the Location map system to the Maplink system, as some editors prefer one over the other. Basically the community consensus was that infoboxes should be modified so that they could display either system, and then let local consensus decide which system to use for each particular article. So for example on Template:Infobox museum, it has both  parameters for the Location map system and   parameters for the mapframe system. Zzyzx11 (talk) 02:34, 4 June 2022 (UTC)


 * Since the OP linked to Empire Mine State Historic Park, that article currently uses Template:Infobox protected area which has not yet been directly converted to use both yet. So I would have to use Template:Maplink directly in the  parameter (and remove the current   in the process to prevent an error).

<pre style="overflow: auto;">


 * Zzyzx11 (talk) 03:00, 4 June 2022 (UTC)

Enhancement
As noted above, the different kinds of maps have pros and cons, and editors have their preferences. Another related issue is that some infoboxes have a static map (an image), and a push-pin map, which unnecessarily lengthens the infobox. Push-pin maps have a switcher function to allow multiple maps to be specified with only one shown by default. If the switcher were generalized to handle static images and map-frame maps, some existing infoboxes could be shorter and others would have more functionality (while not forcing any changes on any article/infobox). I don't know what templates/modules would be impacted or if Dev work would be needed. If anyone with more technical knowledge can expand on this (and/or) move this to a better forum. <b style="color:#034503">MB</b> 15:35, 4 June 2022 (UTC)

Shiraz Metro
There appears to be a problem with the osm map on this page, and I don't know how to fix it. Steelkamp (talk) 16:55, 4 June 2022 (UTC)


 * The picture files on the article were all right aligned causing them to overflow into the area that should've been taken by the interactive map. This caused the error. Fixed it by mixing left and right aligned pictures, removing a non-essential picture and at the place where pictures end, using clear which stopped the pictures from flowing into the map's area. &#8212;CX Zoom[he/him] (let's talk • {C•X}) 18:59, 4 June 2022 (UTC)

Group changes by section (as well as by page, in recent changes and watchlist)
That's clearly not an option, and my search for it didn't yield anything relevant. It'd be pretty useful when the village pump is on fire (or when one does the healthy thing of staying away from WP for a few days). In fact, in the latter case, grouping by page and section would be far more useful than day and page. Not possible, I suppose. Or... is it? — Guarapiranga ☎ 05:15, 5 June 2022 (UTC)


 * Someone could maybe write a script for it based on  on the watchlist, but that's a could maybe and not a definite yes. Could probably be done in PHP too, but you'd have to write up your own formatter. Izno (talk) 06:20, 5 June 2022 (UTC)

Display of WikiProject banners might be odd for a minute or three
I just implemented TemplateStyles in the WikiProject banners and in WP banner shell (details). When I did so, I made some changes to the class names. This may cause some odd displays as the CSS works its way through the template transclusion system. A page purge or a null edit should fix it if the display issue is bothersome. Please ping me if neither of those two sort the issue (while I tested, I am imperfect). Izno (talk) 16:42, 5 June 2022 (UTC)

IP Info marker is affecting line height in Monobook
The new IP Info feature is affecting the line height in my watchlist and Special:RecentChanges. Is there a css method to decrease the size of the IP Info button or increase the line height? Nthep (talk) 19:08, 4 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Try the below in . PrimeHunter (talk) 20:43, 4 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Thanks, that seems to fix it. Nthep (talk) 21:20, 4 June 2022 (UTC)
 * For the record, to enable this tool you must both be an administrator or checkuser, enable "IP Info" at Special:Preferences, and accept "I agree to use this tool in accordance with the IP Information tool guidelines" at Special:Preferences or an IP contributions page. PrimeHunter (talk) 20:57, 4 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Hmmm, thinking about promoting that to MediaWiki:monobook.css - any objections? Maybe we should open a phab about it as reference. —  xaosflux  Talk 14:45, 5 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I almost suggested that this could use a phab task. Izno (talk) 16:14, 5 June 2022 (UTC)
 * T309948 opened. — xaosflux  Talk 17:26, 5 June 2022 (UTC)
 * T309948 opened. — xaosflux  Talk 17:26, 5 June 2022 (UTC)

How to add different texts to different pages using Pywikibot?
Hi everyone, can someone tell me how to add different texts to different pages using Pywikibot? For example: Thanks! ⇒ Aram  Talk  13:24, 2 June 2022 (UTC)
 * 1) Adding "A" to the end of "foo" article
 * 2) Adding "B" to the end of "bar" article
 * 3) And so on.
 * @Aram there a many options depending on if you really want it a the 'end' or at the normal end of content; for example see mw:Manual:Pywikibot/add_text.py — xaosflux  Talk 13:33, 2 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Yes, I know there is that script. Here the position is not the case. I already added same text to different pages, but I dont know how to add different texts to different pages. ⇒ Aram  Talk  15:23, 2 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Sorry for mentioning you again. Can you find a solution for me? ⇒ Aram  Talk  22:00, 3 June 2022 (UTC)
 * @Aram, I don't know specifically what you're trying to achieve, but something like: I can't remember if the Page object is right off the top of my head, but overall it should work. &#8213; <span id="Qwerfjkl:1654294908746:WikipediaFTTCLNVillage_pump_(technical)" class="FTTCmt"> Qwerfjkl  talk  22:21, 3 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Thank you for the reply and you code. Let me explain more. This is my list of wikitexts and pages. I want to add the last coulmn (form right) to the wikipedia articles (the third column form right) under "External links" section. I think that should be done using mw:Manual:Pywikibot/add_text.py, but I don't know how to do so. Thanks! ⇒ Aram  Talk  12:08, 4 June 2022 (UTC)
 * @Aram, I would do something like: convert it in to a list and edit based on that: You could try using text/table manipulation software e.g. Notepad++ and Regular expression to obtain this list. &#8213; <span id="Qwerfjkl:1654345796553:WikipediaFTTCLNVillage_pump_(technical)" class="FTTCmt"> Qwerfjkl  talk  12:29, 4 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Great! But still the problem is that this script adds those texts to the end of categories. How can I add them right above the categories? ⇒ Aram  Talk  15:00, 4 June 2022 (UTC)
 * @Aram, you could try using Python's re module (something like) if the page has no category this will do nothing. This is just a basic example; I'd suggest you look up the correct syntax. &#8213; <span id="Qwerfjkl:1654361357672:WikipediaFTTCLNVillage_pump_(technical)" class="FTTCmt"> Qwerfjkl  talk  16:49, 4 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Thank you very much! ⇒ Aram  Talk  19:24, 5 June 2022 (UTC)