Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)/Archive 27

Space between paragraphs please (Refereces)
The CSS seems to put very little space between paragraphs. Hardly visible. This makes some articles very hard to read. Suggest at least 1/2 extra line. The HTML default is not too bad.

(On IE7, most common browser. Also on ancient Netscape.)

(A secondary issue, it would be very interesting to be able to find page hits per page. Probably not on the page itself but accessible.  A bot could scan the access logs from time to time and do a simple sort/merg.)  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tuntable (talk • contribs) 23:30, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
 * See for the hit counter.- gadfium  00:29, 19 March 2008 (UTC)


 * You can override the default spacing by editing your monobook.css. These formatting issues have been debated at length for a long while and consensus at present supports the current layout. You're welcome to add your commentary on the matter to MediaWiki talk:Common.css. AmiDaniel (talk) 02:26, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

I've added the following to the css page. The problem with paragraphs is worst when you have references. That is because the references slightly increase the line height. In this paragraph I have added some dummy references to demonstrate this point here and here. When you have lots of references in an article (as you should) it becomes very hard to see where paragraphs start.

Fiddling with my preferences is not the start, I care about what the huge number of other readers will see. I would therefor urge that the default CSS be changed to increase the height slightly. Note how the previous paragraph has been split apart.

Thanks for the pointer to stats.grock.se. 04:59, 19 March 2008 (UTC)Tuntable
 * Seems like setting line-height: 1 for sub/sup elements is still the way to solve this. With the exception of IE of course which is a pain as usual. --TheDJ (talk • contribs) 07:16, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

user/chick.css?
WP:CLASS shows user/chick.css occupies the ninth and final position in the stylesheet cascade order. Is that advice correct? Do settings in chick.css always override settings from earlier stylesheets? I didn't notice any effects from chick.css. BTW, is the warning on WP:CLASS, "This article or section needs to be updated", stale? - Neparis (talk) 03:46, 19 March 2008 (UTC)


 * In the monobook-derived skins, the user css is the last to load. However, load order is not the only hierarchy determinator. Specificity dictates it, ( will override   for example), as well as   (can ever override hard-coded style="" attributes). Please note, chick.css only affects you if you're using the chick skin.
 * Also, I was the last to rewrite that section of WP:CLASS earlier this month (since I was sick of the satelness). However, most of the rest of the page could stand to be updated, so the notice probably still applies. --Splarka (rant) 07:24, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Thank you. I was using  instead of  . - Neparis (talk) 20:57, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

Porting the Italian Wikipedia CSS
For some reason, I think the Italian Wikipedia (complete with it's rounded corners and stuff) is actually quite nice, and pasting it into the user monobook.css actually works quite nicely. Though, I do get an error in the corner if I visit a page with semi-protection in the iconified mode (Cause I think that's a en.wikipedia exclusive feature). Think someone could fix this up to support the Iconified protection correctly? ViperSnake151 20:29, 19 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Rounded corners are nice, but I think we should look more closely at other differences to see if they're desirable for en.wikipedia.org. For example, I really like having the "edit" link immediately to the right of a section title (see, for example, it:Storia di Verona), rather than all the way to the right. Placing it right next to the title (subtly) encourages people to edit a section, I'd guess. -- John Broughton (♫♫) 22:06, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

Database error when clicking "Related changes"
I am not sure if this is the proper places for this, but I read /Before posting and decided this was a good place to start. For about the last 40 minutes, I have not been able to use the "Related changes" link on the toolbox links. I have reset my cache, reset my internet connect, reset FireFox, to no avail. I get this error message:
 * Database error
 * A database query syntax error has occurred. This may indicate a bug in the software. The last attempted database query was:
 * (SQL query hidden)
 * from within function "wfSpecialRecentchangeslinked". MySQL returned error "1064: You have an error in your SQL syntax. Check the manual that corresponds to your MySQL server version for the right syntax to use near '<<<<<<< .mine rc_new_len ======= rc_new_len, rc_log_ty (10.0.0.2)".

Is anyone else experiencing this, or could there be something wrong on my end? --Tombstone (talk) 00:25, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
 * An SVN merge conflict occured and left that junk in the live codebase. It has been fixed now.  Voice -of- All  02:25, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Thank you, Rgrds. --Tombstone (talk) 02:34, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

3RR formatting question
I just submitted a 3RR complaint on User:Redthoreau on the article Che Guevara. I have never been successful in these requests, as they have always been "malformed". Could someone check my 3RR complaint to see if I did it correctly? I submitted it just a few minutes or so ago. Thanks,  Mattisse  (Talk) 00:49, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Sbowers3 (talk) 01:18, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

Formatting question
I often come across articles where the line of the section division overlaps the photos or other things in the way example: ragweed, photo under taxobox on right. I know they're not supposed to look like that, and I've tried to fix them, but I don't really know why it's doing that to fix it other than looking over the code and hoping something jumps out. I know it's nit-picky, but it bothers me and I'm willing to fix it. Can anyone tell me how? Also, is there a good way to finding the formatting error with things like this? Thanks Garnet avi (talk) 08:33, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Another formatting question: when to and when not to add a TOCbox tag. Some pages seem to generate the TOC fine on their own, others not so much. What's up with that? Garnet avi (talk) 08:35, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
 * See WP:TOC. PrimeHunter (talk) 13:52, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes, I figured that out after I posted. It was merely a hasty addition to my original query, which still stands. Garnet avi (talk) 03:33, 18 March 2008 (UTC)


 * I couldn't figure out what you were talking about until I resized my browser. I use IE7 and it looks as though some widths display correctly and some widths show the line across the image. If you (or others) have the same experience, that would point to an IE bug. Of course, the solution for ragweed is to tear it out and destroy it before it starts pollinating. Even the article is making my eyes puffy. :) Franamax (talk) 07:23, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Ag! Resizing the window does it! Evil upon evil. That really drives me up the wall. I'm amazed you even thought of resizing. I didn't even think to associate that formatting error to window size. Thanks for braving the ragweed to answer my question. Garnet avi (talk) 00:26, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

Tabs At The Top
There should be tabs saying, for example, this page:


 * project page
 * discussion
 * edit project page
 * edit discussion page
 * history project page
 * history dicussion

Right now, the functionality is a bit lost. I mean the tabs can be moved around and organized, but right now, it's happened and possible and will happen that if the functionality is not there, those few precious seconds can cost a great idea from being exchanged, either on the dicussion page, or written down on the project page, let's say.

I know the developers might not see this, would someone please put this post on BugZilla? Thanks so much in advance.68.148.164.166 (talk) 10:03, 17 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Slightly incoherent but if I interpret it correctly, you would like:
 * To have two edit links, one for the "project page" and one for the "discussion page" regardless of which page you are viewing, and:
 * To be able to change the order in which these links appear.
 * Javascript could do both very easily, unless also you want these features to exist in mediawiki by default. By the way there is no "history discussion" page. — CharlotteWebb 14:59, 17 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Oh, no, I just mean, yes, your 1st point. At the very least. 68.148.164.166 (talk) 10:12, 20 March 2008 (UTC)


 * I think a very similar question was posted on another VP page (at least I seem to remember answering it). As CharlotteWebb has indicated, an individual editor can tailor the tabs using Javascript (what is often referred to here as a "user script"). That way, everyone else doesn't have to deal with a change in tabs (assuming you could get consensus for a change, which you can't).


 * See WikiProject User scripts as a starting place. -- John Broughton (♫♫) 13:01, 18 March 2008 (UTC)


 * How couldn't I get consensus?68.148.164.166 (talk) 10:12, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

Global counter variables
Hi, I'm writing on behalf of some of our best humanities editors,, and I daresay several others, who would like two automatically numbered reference systems that could operate in parallel, one for the actual bibliographic references and one for scholarly footnotes. Examples of this style may be seen at William Shakespeare and Jane Austen, where the Cite.php approach was used for the references and Ref label/Note label used for the scholarly footnotes. The problem with the latter, of course, is that it's not automatically incremented; if a new footnote is introduced in the middle, all the subsequent footnotes have to be re-lettered, which costs time and opens the door to regrettable human errors. I mentioned the explain template, but that seems sub-optimal.

I've done some preliminary research and this problem seems to have been considered obliquely at a few Bugzilla pages, e.g., bugs 5997, 6271, 6272, and 12796, but I can't make out whether a solution has been worked out?

As an experiment, I was going to try to make my own template solution, an updated version of the Ref/Note templates, but clearly I need a global HTML page variable that I can increment and induce to format, similar to the HTML tag . In fact, I tried to subvert the "ordered list" tag for this purpose, but I couldn't figure out how to override its tab formatting. So: what I'd like is a mechanism for setting up, incrementing, displaying and resetting an internal counter on a page, something like the "ol" tag but without the formatting, e.g., , ,  and maybe , or their equivalents done in templates. From those elements, I could make a good Ref/Note template system, I think.

If anyone has any good suggestions, I'd be very grateful — thanks muchly! :) Willow (talk) 10:04, 19 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Personally, I think we'd be better off with just adding a parallel system with tags, that behaves exactly like the current system using system as possible. Accordingly, I dashed off a new PHP extension based very closely on Cite.php, which may be found here, with internationalization here.  The new tags are, and , just like and
 * --Splarka (rant) 07:22, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

Category box issue
What's causing the category box in this article to be so large and to cover part of the infobox? Black Falcon (Talk) 05:39, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I don't think I'm seeing that in Firefox 2.0 or IE 6.0; anybody else? – Luna Santin  (talk) 09:02, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Neither clearing the browser's cache nor editing the page fixed it for me (I use IE 7.0). Black Falcon (Talk) 17:25, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Also appears for me (IE7), looks like this. Happy‑melon 17:36, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Seems to be an issue with how IE handles the clearing of the floated infobox, if your window is wide enough for the article body to be shorter than the box. It should push the entire category box down until it's out of the way of the floated box (as Firefox and Safari do quite correctly), but instead is pushing down its content while maintaining the same top point for the border and background. You can work around this by inserting a at the bottom of the page, for now... I'm not sure if there's a clean style fix for it. --brion (talk) 18:10, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

Embedded font support now live
The latest version of Safari includes support for embedded fonts, opening up new possibilities for font support on Wikipedia. To demonstrate the concept, I added the DejaVu Sans font as a gadget. If you are using Safari 3.1 or later, just checking the box will enable you to use this font even if you can't install it directly onto your computer.

Please try this out and let me know how it works. DejaVu Sans is not the most useful font, and I'd be interested in hearing about other fonts that might be useful to have as gadgets. —Remember the dot (talk) 07:34, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

OnloadHook not working
Can anyone tell me why the bottom five lines of my .css is having absolutely no effect whatsoever? I've cleared/purged/deleted everything I can get my hands on, and I know the cached version is current (I disabled and then re-enabled the 'page logs' bit, and that works ok). Happy‑melon 12:08, 21 March 2008 (UTC)


 * 1) It's your .js, not "css"; 2) Please use Firefox or Opera and open Tools->Error console; 3) This would show you the error with undefined  which was supposed to be   (look at any page HTML source); 4) You might want to make it   so it works on user subpages as well. —AlexSm 15:18, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Thank you!! I should have guessed it would be something really stupid like that.  I keep meaning to switch from IE7, but it's too much hassle (three computers of my own to change, plus the inevitable battle with the network admins when I try to use it anywhere other than home  . Happy‑melon</b> 15:25, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

Little 'W' not appearing on IE7 tabs
Until very recently (not more than a couple of hours ago) tabs in IE7 open on a wikipedia page had a little white 'W' image on the left-hand edge - that's now just showing the IE 'e' logo. Pages open at meta/wikisource/wiktionary still display their relevant images, so is it just wikipedia? Or is it just me? <b style="color:forestgreen;">Happy</b>‑<b style="color:darkorange;">melon</b> 12:11, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
 * You are right on both counts. IE7 does it for me as well. The Wiktionary tabs have the W but Wikipedia tabs show only the IE7 logo. Dr.K. (talk) 14:36, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Now the W came back for both Wiktionary and Wikipedia tags. Dr.K. (talk) 14:41, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Fixed for me too now. <b style="color:forestgreen;">Happy</b>‑<b style="color:darkorange;">melon</b> 15:25, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

Watchlist preferences
Could the watchlist preference "Add pages I create to my watchlist" be modified so that only article pages are watched? Most of the time I "create" a user talk page when I leave a comment for a new user, and I don't want to watch them. Thanks. Imagine Reason (talk) 23:09, 21 March 2008 (UTC)


 * This option merely checks the "Watch this page" box under the edit window by default; if you don't want a page watched, you can simply uncheck the box as you write your comment. Waltham, The Duke of 00:29, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

I don't think devs are going to make make a separate preference checkbox for you, so below is a simple userscript (goes into your monobook.js if you use default Monobook skin). —AlexSm 01:51, 22 March 2008 (UTC)


 * I see. Thank you, all. Imagine Reason (talk) 02:23, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

Purging an image
Whoa, hold your horses, everyone! I did read the FAQ, I did what it said, but it hasn't worked for me. The image in question for me is Image:Utah SR 171.svg. It won't show up on Utah State Route 171. I purged the image repeatedly, and it hasn't shown yet. CountyLemonade (talk) 02:55, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Works for me. See direct link to image thumbnail used in article for verification. --MZMcBride (talk) 02:58, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Initially it was blank for me but I bypassed the server cache and it's showing up now. Thank you - CountyLemonade (talk) 03:03, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

Template programming help
I have a template that I'm trying to create, but not being very sucessful. Can anyone help me out here? Full documentation of what it is supposed to do is included below. Thanks, --Ajl772 (talk) 18:27, 21 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Huh? Are you trying to use a template to execute javascript? I'm not aware that's possible, though I'd love to be told different. As far as wiki is concerned, I think you've commented out the code anyway, when you use . (I put a hat over your documentation to keep this page clean :) Franamax (talk) 21:28, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm almost certain that the way the Wikipedia parser handles raw page text means that all methods of external linking apart from the usual []-based wikicode are prohibited - they simply won't render as html tags, or the tags won't be acted upon by the browser. This is primarily to prevent spam- and redirect-vandalism, IIRC. Executing javascript from templates is similarly prohibited - what do you think the big warning across the top of all .css and .js pages is for?  Allowing anyone to add javascript to wikipages to be executed on the browsers of all viewers is a recipe for disaster.  In summary, I don't think there is a method for doing what you want, certainly not via html in a template. <b style="color:forestgreen;">Happy</b>‑<b style="color:darkorange;">melon</b> 21:43, 21 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Mediawiki is a php-based implementation. The only place I'm aware we run javascript is over at Upload's interface, and even then I don't know if its end-user editable.  MBisanz  talk 21:43, 21 March 2008 (UTC)


 * What would a page like Template:Twinkle.monobook.jss do if created? Would it still be admin-only editable?  Could it be referenced in user's monobooks as a code?  MBisanz  talk 21:48, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
 * 1) Nothing 2) Administrator and you-editable 3) Yes, see how one installs User:Lupin's popups at User:Lupin/popups.js. x42bn6 Talk Mess  03:31, 22 March 2008 (UTC)


 * But since you can only edit code pages in your own userspace, wouldn't a non-admin be able to create it and then not edit it?  MBisanz  talk 05:45, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
 * It's only possible to create .css and .js pages in userspace (and your own userspace at that, unless you're an admin) or the MediaWiki namespace - creating, for instance, Template:Foo.js or Talk:Foo/skin.css will produce a normal page. Any page can be imported into users' .css and .js files - most of the scripts at WP:US are imported from project pages.  <b style="color:forestgreen;">Happy</b>‑<b style="color:darkorange;">melon</b> 19:45, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

Edit saving issue
Several times in the past week, after I've edited and saved a page, my changes do not appear, even after I refresh my cache. I have to go into the article history, open the most recent version (which includes my edit) for editing, and save it again without making any changes. After that, my changes become visible in the article, and the second (no change) edit does not appear in the article history. Has this been happening to other people? Could it be a legit bug, or am I the only one having this issue? — Swpbtalk.edits 19:56, 21 March 2008 (UTC)


 * I haven't experienced it. Try purging the cache. Some ISPs cache pages beyond the customers control. The second edit you describe is a null edit (not the same as a dummy edit) and it's normal it doesn't show in the page history. PrimeHunter (talk) 21:34, 21 March 2008 (UTC)


 * I've been clicking F5 in firefox. This purges the cache, right? When the problem occurs, F5 doesn't solve it. — Swpbtalk.edits 15:04, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
 * No, that just refreshes the page. ctrl-F5 clears the cache. See also Bypass your cache. --TheDJ (talk • contribs) 15:14, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

Reference tags
Is it just me, or have some of the reference tags, i.e. the numbers in square brackets, changed? I've found those in wikitables are now subscript rather than superscript. As are some which carry over onto the next line, which then runs into the name of the next section for those at the end of a section. Peanut4 (talk) 20:10, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Was just going to post this. Although all of the ones found at the list of best-selling video games are superscript, many are broken: they either take you to the wrong reference, or don't take you anywhere. I have posted a few examples here, in case anyone needs to check them. -- ReyBrujo (talk) 21:56, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm looking at it now. -Steve Sanbeg (talk) 22:20, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

Ref. Problem with refs at University of California, Riverside The principle editor posted this at the help desk, but I think it might get more attention here. Sandy Georgia  (Talk) 22:05, 21 March 2008 (UTC)


 * It looks like it's fixed now, but any cached pages may need to be purged (add ?action=purge to the URL). -Steve Sanbeg (talk) 22:46, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks, it works (at least in my case). -- ReyBrujo (talk) 23:21, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

Ref. Reference problems - superscript numbers: I wonder if one of you tech gurus could help with a reference problem in the page Huddersfield Town F.C., please? If I click on the superscript for reference 7 nothing happens, it doesn't take you to the reference. But if I click on the superscript for reference 10 it takes me to reference 7. What have I done wrong, please? BlueValour (talk) 23:01, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Already solved, see just above. Try purging the cache. -- ReyBrujo (talk) 23:20, 21 March 2008 (UTC)


 * My own problems with references still aren't working. Has no-one else got a problem with this or are the changes intended? Peanut4 (talk) 22:48, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Do you have an example? The ones at list of best-selling game consoles work fine. -- ReyBrujo (talk) 23:05, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
 * It'll be difficult to find an example for the end of a section, because obviously it depends on screen size, but List of Aston Villa F.C. managers shows what I mean in a table. I think perhaps it's because the notes column doesn't have any text in. Peanut4 (talk) 23:19, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

This was due to a recent change in MediaWiki:Common.css which had some unexpected side-effects on IE. The issue is hopefully fixed now, try viewing the page again after clearing your browser cache. --TheDJ (talk • contribs) 02:45, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

can't get an image that i uploaded to link to the main content page
hi, i uploaded an image of the USS Jonas Ingram but i cannot get it to link to the main USS jonas ingram content page. It's not a copyright protected image, so should be OK. I don't know what to do now. Help! thanks, Jim —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.226.231.25  (talk)


 * Which image are you referring to or which account did you use to upload it, and exactly what do you want to do with it? You were not logged in when you made this post and the IP address has no other edits. PrimeHunter (talk) 02:51, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

hi, sorry i missed you. thx for the reply. i did upload the pic as a logged in user, as airforcefalcon05. i can see the image when i go to "My Contributions". but i can't figure out how to get the image from there to the main USS JONAS INGRAM wiki page. if you go to the main USS JONAS INGRAM page, you'll see an area on the top right where i want my ship photo to go. does that give u more info? Jim

Oh, one other thing. here's the file name of the image that i created, and can see when i go to the "My Contributions" page. USS_Jonas_Ingram-DD938.jpg. It is a public domain photo, as i noted in the area where the image is now. My goal is to have this image display on the main Jonas Ingram page, where it says something like "no photo available." thx again, Jim, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA PS: I served on this ship as a sailor in the mid-1970s. It was sunk as a target vessel in the early 1980s.


 * Thank you for contributing. I made this change in order to get the image in what is commonly called the "Infobox" or "Taxobox". You can see the result here: USS Jonas Ingram (DD-938). I can advise you to read our manual on using images. Hopefully that will help you do similar edits yourself in the future. --TheDJ (talk • contribs) 14:04, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

Awesome! i checked and the pic is now there, on the main Jonas Ingram page. Thank you so much, to both of you for your help and advice. I will read up on all the cool things a contributor can do in Wiki; i'm still a neophyte at this. Best regards, Jim C.

Another software change?
First we have the <tt>m</tt>'s and <tt>b</tt>'s now this:

See this  text:

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 500 501 502 503 504 505 5006 5007 5008 5009 5010 50001 50002 50002 50003 50004 50005 0006 35406 5406 5406 5650465046 5065 465403503046 30 630 46503545606540654 654063 5406103046 3041635435463032.0 654635654 365463546506354654 65065321035465530 203546504651304650130161301331 35130201635135165130165013 63513510316551 65046 506 4635465465 06540 654065465406 656 530 046540654065 60465 05406540654065465

The text wasn't over lapping until I cleared my cache today. Weird, I hope this can be fixed. If you view my user page you can see.-- penubag  (talk) 01:37, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
 * This was changed in MediaWiki:Common.css, see discussions on its talk page. I might be wrong, but I don't think you're supposed to use &lt;sup> like this, as a "replacement" for &lt;small>. —AlexSm 01:46, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I don't use because it puts unusual breaks between lines,


 * 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 500 501 502 503 504 505 5006 5007 5008 5009 5010 50001 50002 50002 50003 50004 50005 0006 35406 5406 5406 5650465046 5065 465403503046 30 630 46503545606540654 654063 5406103046 3041635435463032.0 654635654 365463546506354654 65065321035465530 203546504651304650130161301331 35130201635135165130165013 63513510316551 65046 506 4635465465 06540 654065465406 656 530 046540654065 60465 05406540654065465
 * -- penubag  (talk) 01:52, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

Question: Is it possible to reduce the spacing between lines in a paragraph? -- penubag  (talk) 19:15, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes, using CSS, like this piece of long long long long long long long long long long long long long long long long long long long long long long long long long long long long long long long long long long long long long long long long long long text.
 * But I don't see anything unusual about the spacing of the small text. is reserved for superscripts like e 7 and shouldn't be "abused" for small text.  x42bn6 Talk Mess  19:37, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
 * x42bn6, I owe you one. Thank you very very much! -- penubag  (talk) 19:53, 22 March 2008 (UTC)